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@GoshJosh said:
My only qualm with this perk is that the exposed status remains even after the exposed survivor is downed. It should immediately be taken away upon either downing or hooking a survivor. It's served its purpose up to that point.
This is probably the only 'nerf' thread I can get behind when it comes to these perks. Exposed should be removed on hook (I say on hook, because I think it should last if the downed survivor is slugged and happens to unbreakable himself or gets healed somehow. Should only remove on a successful hooking.)
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@dugman said:
I think Cages are underused because there's a common lack of understanding of how much time the Cage saves you over hooking. On average it can take up to 12 seconds to hook a survivor (2 seconds for the pick up, 1-2 seconds for the hook and about 8 seconds for the carry unless they happen to be right next to a hook when you down them). Cages only take 2 seconds total, so it gives Pyramid Head an additional roughly 10 seconds of extra time per Cage to go start chasing someone else. For context 10 seconds is enough time to walk halfway across the maps at his 4.6 m/s movement speed which is plenty of time to reach a new survivor. Or you can think of it as getting 1/2 a Pop Goes the Weasel trigger worth of extra time whenever you Cage.
That time bonus alone makes Cages worth using, the fact that it also gets around all survivor hook based perks is a bonus.
Cages are also underused because of their "nerf" because of 'camper criers'.
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@Eareland said:
I think she is fine. Also crouching should not activate Hag's or PH's traps. They are fine.
out of topic, PH is already annoying as hell, and if something needs to be more noob-friendly, it's he, not Hag.
Crouching to avoid either (trench especially) is an extreme stretch of logic and just an example of poor development and design, in my opinion.... but okay.
On your off topic - why is it that Survivors are so terrified of Torment? Like, my friend says whenever he plays or like streamers he watches.. .Survivors will purposefully take hits to avoid having to get Torment on them. Are they that concerned with his mori-ability? If anything I think Torment is too weak and needs to actually do something to the Survivor while they're out and running about.
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I don't think a perk is the answer... I think I'd prefer a change to something like damaging generators -- changing it to damaging a generator automatically chips X% progress off before starting the gradual decline. This alone would punish Survivors 'tapping' gens to stop regression, because of repeated damaging causing more % decay instantly than if they'd just left it alone and came back when it was safer.
Something like, damaging generators causes 5% (of max generator progress; not current achieved progress) immediate regression. So, at its most basic level, kicking a generator would add roughly 3 seconds on average to the repair time ( going off of 60 second repair time for single survivor; 5% being 3 seconds; I don't know if it has changed since the last time I looked at actual gen speed); and actually be far more beneficial than it currently is in situations of Survivors hiding by the generator to immediately nullify the regression.
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@Cancan71 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1613800#Comment_1613800
If you couldn't bypass hag traps, then the hag would just set up one at the hook and be able to easily camp/get downs. It would make her the best killer in the game and would be very frustrating for survivors as there would be no way to unhook without at least one survivor getting downed.
True... but you also have the option of using the flashlight for something other than blinding the killer, with those traps. Maybe the Hag's could maintain the crouching over them (debatable; should be able to crouch up to them and maybe remove them); but crouching to bypass PH's trench is a line I draw in the sand. lol
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Not sure how it's that dark for you, honestly. Map is perfectly visible on my non-4k TV playing PS4.
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I would much rather just make changes like Endgame Collapse automatically starting once the last generator is finished - forcing the game to have to come to an end without the killer having to close the hatch or open one of the gates for a survivor. I've successfully 360'd a few times in my playing, but not very often because of killer lunges and their turn capability (depending on killer).
More often that as a Survivor, I'm getting slugged when I am mid-slide or just finished sliding over a pallet or window; or getting hit through a window while standing on the other side... stupid crap like that.
The only 'fix' to 360-ing really is either preventing Survivor's from being able to rotate their camera to look behind them while in a chase or working on a generator ( absolutely logical; but Survivor-mains will cry about it because anything that makes the game harder on them is terrible). Or, give the killer collision physics - but... that leads to body-blocking Survivors into corners (and they cry again) when they mess up and get stuck in a corner or turn the wrong way... again absolutely logical, but will never see the light of day with the current Survivor playerbase.
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Eh, I'm more on the side that I don't think the traps should be avoidable personally.... same with Pyramid's trench... think the concept of crouching around to bypass all these mechanics is just silly.
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Survivors want to survive. Killers want kills. Camping, while annoying for the person on the hook, is viable for killers that either A - Need to get a hook sacrifice for a daily or a challenge; or to draw out Survivors, because very rarely will someone not come try to save the hooked person. It's free BP for the killer; and if no one comes? It's 5k for the sacrifice. If you play, like me, with zero absolute care for pips and ranks (they're arbitrary and useless, only indicators of how well you play the game the way the Devs try to force you to play it) - then all you are playing for is bloodpoints/enjoyment.
Pips and ranks punish playing effectively in favor of playing the Dev's way of forced morality and "everybody play together nicely" instead of rewarding playing your role and completing your objectives (which for Survivors is not 'chase me, senpai'... it's doing totems and gens; as much as the Devs want it to be otherwise; and for Killers it is not 'okay I hit you now run away and patch up okay?'... but to kill, as much as the Devs want it to be otherwise. Killers are already punished in bloodpoint generation and pip progress for ensuring their victims die. Nothing else needs to be done about it - Survivors just need to either A - grow spines and deal with it; B - Do the generators and finish the match as quickly as possible to move on to another one; or C - Don't get caught, honestly.
You'll have toddlers -- excuse me, Survivors that disconnect or give up if they drop into struggle phase without anyone unhooking them, in a little temper tantrum. Toddlers that give up, will give up. Nothing can be done about that. The only stronger 'incentive' you can give is to vastly improve/uncap the bloodpoint generation for leaving hooked victims and chasing/hitting other survivors or damaging gens/pallets -- and by that point, you may as well just remove the objectives from this game if you're rewarding the killer for doing anything and everything under the sun except kill.
Also - camping removes 1 survivor from the equation and almost always, because Survivors are altruistic by nature and by desire for those delicious unhooking bloodpoints (and the perk requiring unhooks for bloodpoint bonuses), it will lead to getting more hits on other survivors with less annoying/irritating/ridiculously-one-sided looping/chases. And if that hooked victim dies? That's 1 less survivor to push the generators and swings the game in favor of the killer.
This game doesn't need more way to punish players for playing effectively (sneaking Survivors are punished too; it's a double-edged ######### ass sword). Screw the Devs and their 'party game' mentality with every feature/mechanic of the game being anything but a party game. If this were a 'party game', like they want there would be no levels/grind - just pick your perks and survivor skin/killer and play. And until any of that changes - you will always have campers, even more so because it's continually easier for Survivors to make mistakes/goof around when they play matches but killers almost always have to be hardasses or constantly on-edge when they're in their matches.
And before anyone states it - as killer, no, I play the Dev's baby gated playstyle until Survivors piss me off with annoying or trolling gameplay. Then I play toxic and screw their enjoyment. As Survivor - I do the gens; make the saves when it's plausible (a big concept many survivors cannot understand; not saving if it means putting myself in your place... that's just ######### stupid); and play the game as it is SUPPOSED to be played by its nature and descriptions --- trying to not get caught by the killer, to escape, and survive. Not toy with the killer and farm as many bloodpoints as I can in one match because of backwards ass hillbilly reward systems.
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I have to disagree with this. It is annoying af already to chase Survivors because looping is still a huge problem/too easy; bloodlust is the only thing that remains that can still stop that chase from dragging on for eternity (without the stupid mentality of 'JuSt LeT tHeM gO'.) If anything, I think BL needs to be buffed to not be broken unless the Survivor goes completely out of your sight - instead of breaking if they move around a crate or obstacle with half their body still exposed.
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Cool idea. Unfortunately, prestige is about the only long-term thing the devs have in this game to force people to stay interested in the tedious, monotonous, annoying RNG grindfest that is the game.
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Perk is fine. Don't like it - ditch one of your precious meta crutches and run an anti-Totem/totem detection perk. Otherwise, I'm sorry that Survivors now have to be more concerned with clearing out totems than they ever had to be before and it's starting to ruin their "fun" of gen rushing, m1 simulations, and screwing with the killer the whole game.
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@Mercês said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1610009#Comment_1610009
There's no problem on letting survivors bleed out. It's not considered holding the game hostage because survivors WILL bleed out and the game will eventually end.
Oh, don't get me wrong - I think 90% of the stupid "rules" about Killer and Survivor etiquette is utter BS and goes against the nature of the game. But I have literally seen Survivor-mains treating the game as if the killer needs to 'back off' and not try to win, so they can have fun. But flip it around - and Survivors are not expected to back off and try to let the killer down and hook them.
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@antgnstea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1610016#Comment_1610016
You know killer can be unlocked by shards which is completely free. You can complain about other things but pay-to-perform is not one of them.
Many pay-to-perform and pay-to-win games have dramatically slower, 'natural' and 'free' options to their throw money for immediate results.
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More and more, this killer looks like a 'pay $8 for three good perks' type of DLC. Downside to having an almost mobile-game level of DLC, you eventually start blurring the line between DLC and pay-to-perform.
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Careful. Saying "had to let him bleed out" may summon 'those kinds of Survivors' that think you should have just let him break free from your grasp and let him run away and tried again when he was closer to another hook.
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Only thing I dislike about him is his bland, fairly unimaginative power that doesn't scream 'Chemist' or 'Blight' to me... should have dealt with slamming into survivors directly for damage and status effects, in my opinion. Would have fit the theme better.
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@Avarice10 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1604373#Comment_1604373
I agree, I only want to see the same perk again if I bought it.
No; I would just rather the perks be actual RNG and not a pseudo-forced 'you have to take this one first' situation. The RNG is just ridiculous in this game though. More and more, the game feels like a mobile gacha game without the ability to just buy your progress XD.
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@dugman said:
It’s probably made that way so that if the entity eats a perk you wanted on a web you’ll get it again next time.
Well it is absolutely irritating and should just be pure RNG if they're going to shove RNG down our throats.
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@Tricks said:
Because they didn't balance voice coms into the game as it's OP and gives unfair advantage to Survivors.
Yet they allow Survivors to use 3rd party programs to do exactly that which I find hilarious and extremely hipocritical.
This sums it up -- there is a huge reason SWF is a plague on DBD. Access to communication with teammates is a HUGE part of that.
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I'd also like to add that it'd be nice in Totems random-spawned instead of haivng memorizable spawn points.
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@mintchapstick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1601738#Comment_1601738
I don't want a perk, I want totems to have a count like the generators have in the HUD that says how many totems are left on the map. No detection or anything, just a number that counts totems on the map.
Okay, but up the number of totems if you're going to make it easier to 'track' them, imo.
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@mintchapstick said:
I know a lot of people have said this, but devs please. Give us a totem counter in the HUD. Reasons why:
- Solo surviving or duo queues are impossible because you never know how many totems are left. If you just miss ONE and don't know it then NOED is going to proc and that sucks butt after spending so much time breaking all of the others.
- Hex: Undying is coming and it's going to make NOED even harder to counterplay.
Please give us a totem counter!
Personally, if you are worried about totems - make it your focus and run the totem detection perk? I think a dedicated anti-totem perk is asking for too much; Survivors already have a ridiculous amount of counters as it is -- but I would be down if it was made into a separate perk altogether -- like, with this perk you get a totem counter and 50/75/100% bonus for cleansing totem bloodpoints. That way, it is another perk to force decision on whether it is worth it to run or not and leave behind another perk.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1145045#Comment_1145045
This is because the developers can't just tell you everything, information is classified. 😁
Information such as "we looked at implementing X, but discovered that doing so would likely cause Y and Z and isn't something we want to happen." Something simple like that; not a breakdown of their "classified" information. Instead we get silence for months on end; and a "feedback" forum that really is just another companies' "go vent here while we ignore most of it" forum.
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@NMCKE said:
One of the few things developers consider when attempting to bridge the gap is how much information are we giving survivors here? Will it actually work as intended?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/520/AINLJ13IA4VX.jpg
Another thing, something minor and could care less about, is that SWF will also get this information as well. It could in theory, help them become more organized, but I think your suggestions outweigh the negatives. 😁
A lot of problems could be lessened if the Dev team would just, you know, take a moment to put out a news post pretty frequently explaining changes they looked at and reasonings they did not get implemented - instead of just silence as per industry standard. That and a down-to-earth approach at talking to your players instead of this faux-professionalism: getting real when discussing things, explaining that certain changes (slower gen speeds; more stealth-focused gameplay) will never make it into the game because you as Devs do not want the game to actually play in that manner (horror survival), but want the current game (cat-and-mouse, light-hearted, minimal anxiety/tension/stress - aka "engaging" in their terms) instead of the usual "we hear your feedback and are looking into it" HR BS.
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@Lavos99z said:
Also, guys, let's remember the objective of playing a game is to have fun. I don't care what sweatlords on other games say, the intention is for everyone to have fun. It's the ultimate motivator for playing games. Going for the win all the time defeats the purpose and you will definitely be miserable if you go for that.
Also, the game can still be "fun" and objective-focused at the same time. Behavior just doesn't know how to make a game like that, so they resulted in what we have today.
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First off, I have to laugh at calling them "pro survivors". These aren't pro survivors - just players that are used to Behavior's abusable maps and mechancis in the survivors favor.
In all seriousness though, yes I understand the mentality -- it pisses me off that these degenerates can even function enough to play video games; but this is just the overwhelming 'mentality' of gamers these days, thanks to the current "most popular" games. Sure, it existed in the past with things like Halo and stuff -- but it only got worse when the kiddies came in troves because of things like PUBG and Fortnite and teabagging was their way of "oooooh look how good I am" when they're ######### tier at best and exploting abusable mechanics in this game to begin with.
Just remember - if they're teabagging, I instantly disregard their gameplay and any 'skill' that player may have and start treating them with the mentality that I'm playing with a toddler. Also, if the exit gates are open and I haven't found the survivors - I don't even bother going to the gate. I think Survivors should be FORCED to exit once the gates are open (like, extreme limited amount of time to get out of the match or the gates snap close or they instantly die if they're withing so many meters of the exit gate 'area'). But that's "unfair" and you're only going to get toddlers (no matter how they try to defend the teabagging mentality) coming in here saying "it's just pushing a button, stop getting worked up, hurr durr".
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@Lavos99z said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1143313#Comment_1143313
Okay first of all, no one calls it "hyper-focusing". It's tunneling on both sides. I watch streamers who play killers and they still call it tunneling. If you're trying to change that, good luck. Tunneling is the universal thing to call it. Secondly, I have stated a couple of times I ALSO PLAY KILLER and FULLY UNDERSTAND the temptation of tunneling/camping. Do I do it? No, at least not intentionally. I apologize if I SEEMED like I did after match. To the TL;DR bit ( I read what you said though), I agree with you. The emblem system needs to be changed to reward active gameplay, not passive (such as tunneling/camping OR having survivors hide in lockers or sit in one spot the whole game).
You seem confused on my emblem change comment. The system doesn't need to continue punishing tunneling/camping or hiding survivors. It needs to stop caring about the game being "engaging" and start only caring about how effectively a player is completing their goals -- killers need to not be punished for securing their kill by any means necessary; survivors need to quit being rewarded for not doing generators/saving their friends (as much)/engaging and getting the killer to chase them and rewarded far more heavily for doing the generators (which would require a generator overhaul which Behavior is far too incompetent to attempt or even want to address because "they like gen speeds as they are".)
I've suggested in other threads, Survivors should be rewarded bp/emblem points based on time of match spent not engaged with the killer and successfully avoiding detection and doing objectives; and killers should be rewarded much more heavily for chasing their victims when they found them - even if they chase them endlessly and 'tunnel' (if you bring up streamers, it makes it hard for me to take the term seriously. I hate streamers - don't think they're the 'gods' everyone makes them out to be these days, but apples and oranges), the killer should be punished for time not engaged chasing a survivor or monitoring a hooked survivor. That's it. The game needs to quit being balanced around "engaging gameplay" and start being objective focused - then, the horror and anxious tension aspect can be brought back over time instead of this 'ultra-casual, hop in a match for funsies' mentality that almost everyone seems to have for this game.
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All of the penalties you listed aren't the actual penalties. The ACTUAL penalties that make playing "your objective" laughable is the fact that Behavior insists on punishing you for completing that objective. Killers have to "give Survivors a chance" and are punished for not "making their gameplay fun enough" -- emblem points drain for standing too close to their hooked victim to lock in their kill; not chasing survivors enough... while Survivors are punished in terms of their bp gains by not 'engaging' the killer enough.
This all stems from the broken mentality that many players have for wanting a #########-all backwards game where Survivors aren't focused on stealth and escape; and killers aren't focused on kills - but instead everyone is just playing "chase me, chase me!" and no one has to worry about tension or anxiety. "But holding M1 constantly to do gens each match is boring" - then play a different ass game? You're a survivor trying to survive... that is your goal. If you don't want to play that goal, then play killer or play something else. No one ever wants to suggest something like "add complexity" to generator repairs so Survivors have something to focus/work on while they are repairing (instead of just camera rotating and then running away if the killer is approaching). Things like front-locked cameras; more active and varied skill checks; secondary buttons to hit, etc.
But none of your listed penalties are the reason killers are 'punished'.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
It's an uninteractive style of play, and is not a successful strategy to do. People say "just do gens", but when a lot of killers suck at the game and choose to tunnel and camp, it isn't gonna be fun to have majority of your matches in that session of gaming just dedicated to gens or being stuck on the hook all game. There should be a punishment for tunneling the same person over and over, as well as camping. Make it so emblem points are lost way faster than they currently are, as well as bp being depleted too. You don't gain brutality, hunting, deviousness or sacrifice points for targeting recently unhooked survivors (unless BT is in play) so quickly after they got off the hook. So many matches i've seen rubbish players get 20k+ all because a team decided to try and help the poor tunneled and camped survivor to no avail. Since "just do gens" is a stupid response and boring as hell to be forced to do; all because a boosted killer cannot get kills by playing properly. "Pressure? What's that?"
I agree, mate. Tunneling and camping does need a negative to it.
Sure, we can punish 'hyper-focusing' (tunneling as you survivors put it) and hunting down a wounded victim to ensure a kill; but in exchange, let's also punish overly altrustic and 'heroic' survivors. Maybe say, drain your emblem points and bp for every second you aren't doing a generator and are too busy trying to go for that hook save or playing ring-around-the-rosy with the killer? Killers objective is to kill by whatever means necessary - their objective shouldn't be to ensure you have 'fun', sure it sucks being focused down, but that's just either: A - ######### luck of the draw that you were seen/caught first, or B - Punishment for not playing stealthy enough; just like survivors objective is supposed to be to do generators and escape, but Behavior has this game so backwards and screwed up that they reward doing the exact opposite of that because "iT iSn'T fUn ThAt WaY".
TL;DR - ######### no. Change the way the game awards bloodpoints and emblems, to actually emphasize objective-based gameplay and not "interactive tag simulator" and then maybe we can talk about ######### like this.
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@FishTacoDeluxe said:
With some of the recent "balance" changes and reintroduced DC penalty, games have become way more sweaty. Killers using busted add ons and perks have skyrocketed. Slugging for 4ks seem to have increased as well. BHVR I'm not trying to spend 4 minutes slugging to death so my teammate can get the hatch or the have the killer eventually find him after waiting around for so long. Survivors are actually gen rushing. Normally I wouldn't complain about gen rushing because what else is a survivor supposed to do. Now it seems like a mad race to just end the game as quickly as possible and not have any interaction with killers. Survivors that aren't happy with the game just let themselves die on hook and killers just go hide someone where on the map to prevent any interaction for points when they give up. I'm not having fun on either side. DC penalty has ironicly increased toxicity as well. Post game chat is a mess. Some many players berating each other over a game that is supposed to be casual fun. I'm sure you guys have the statistics on how the DC penalty is effecting the game. Of course that's a secret though, becuase you don't want the community to be able to say I told you so again. Please just get rid of it.
On the contrary; DC penalties are doing what they're intended to do -- forcing people to stay and complete full matches instead of bailing in the middle. As for the slugging, perk changes, etc. that actually started becoming a lot more prevelent after the Ruin changes -- because 99% of killers couldn't imagine playing the game with old Ruin, and when it was changed they simply resorted to overwhelmingly camping, puppy guarding, and playing as sweaty as possible as "payback" to Survivors (for some) or to combat not being able to 'slow the game down' like they used to.
All I can say is, if slugging is becoming as prominent as you're making it out to be - are you running Unbreakable to combat it? No Mither? There aren't many options, but that's what Survivors have at least. I haven't noticed very much slugging (only a few matches here and there); but I have been witness to the masssive influx of camping and puppy guarding hooks to guarantee kills because most killers can't 'risk' letting a survivor get a second chance because they can't slow down the game enough anymore or won't re-adapt to the new Ruin changes.
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Survivors want anti-facecamping measures? Okay push for considerably slower gen completion times (even just changing it so 2 survivors doesn't = 50% reduce gen completion time, but requires more 3 or even all 4 to reach 50% reduction -- currently it is 1 surv = 80 secs, 2 survs drops it to around 40-something seconds, a ridiculous drop; and then 3 and 4 survs are smaller gains after that), less rewards for altruisitc gameplay and more rewards for stealth gameplay.
Killers camp because: A - A Survivor was playing toxically/pissed them off so it is revenge killing; B - They know survivors will overwhelmingly stop working on generators to come try to free their friend because 'hey, who doesn't like juicy BP' for that unhooking reward and playing the "let's tag the killer" gameplay the Devs are so DESPERATELY trying to shove down everyone's throats; C - It is the only efficient and almost sure-fire way to secure a kill and limit the number of Survivors that can rush gens or play toxic-tag cat-and-mouse games with you later in the game, when combined with reasons A and B.
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Thought this was going to be about crutch perks; instead it was about moris and keys... not sure if disappointed or not lol. Oh well, may as well put my couple of cents in on the matter:
Moris - Moris are fine as they are. Yes, it is annoying when you're the first Survivor caught in a match, you get unhooked, and then you get downed and mori'd on your second capture early into the game. The problem isn't mori's however -- the problem is that they solve a problem the game has: efficiency. Survivors have too many second chances for a game that pits four of them against one killer. The problem is really the Devs - they want to design the game around solo-play Survivors, meaning no communication, so the gameplay isn't heavily centered around teamplay. They try to encourage it by punishing the hell out of your rewards if you play any other game style but "chase me, chase me", which is incredibly unfun for anyone that is skilled at moving around the map, finishing generators, and yet going nearly the entire match without being caught once (how the game SHOULD be designed, because survivors should be---you know---trying to survive and not 'play with' the killer. The problem isn't mori's, it's just the game philosophy moving in the opposite direction as the game's design: so with Survivors having so many second chance perks and looping options available to them, it is efficient for Killers to level the playing field and use a mori to make the game far more dangerous for survivors to get caught.
Keys - This one is a hard one, because I personally do not even think the Hatch should be a thing; but, I think all that really needs to be done to keys is make them - only allow the user to escape and not open the hatch for their teammates as well; and the Hatch should be changed to not spawn on the map until all generators are complete or there is only one survivor left -- none of this 'do 1+Survivor' number of gens' crap. Retire the trophy for 4-man hatch escape; and also make hatch escapes award less BP than a natural, more dangerous escape (this alone would probably ween a LOT of survivor players off of trying to use them, because they wouldn't be getting more BP for doing so (I know one of my friends is a diehard fan of trying to find the hatch because it gives more BP than escaping through the gate). Edit - Or, make it so if the killer closes an open hatch, it cannot be reopened even with a key; so the key has to be used to find the hatch before it initially opens.
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Honestly, just make killer generator kicks cause 10% instant progress regression before triggering decaying regression; that way those Survivors that want to hide around and abuse the 'tap to make better' mechanic of BS that the Devs refuse to change can still do so -- but it also makes killer kicking gens much more powerful -- and punishes Survivors for tapping the generator when the killer is nearby, because they'll just kick it a second time and get more instant regression.
That; or the 'new Ruin' should have just been baseline for Generators -- if you stop working on them, they regress; and Ruin should just increase that regression speed, not be required to start regression automatically.
Hell, or both - make it a real party and make it so Survivors have to actually care more about their generators instead of just 99%-ing them and then proceeding to troll and screw with the killer until they get bored enough to run over and tap their gens to finish them.
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Agree with Fibijean, it isn't abuse even if it is crap. A better fix for the situation would be changing kicking a gen to cause 10-15% instant regression and then trigger normal regression rate - this way Survivor's think twice about stopping regression and allowing the killer to get another kick in for another immediate regression; that way Survivors can't just keep tapping the gen to stop regression in the killer's face.
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@PassarinoT said:
Lowkey I feel like kindred should become basekit and potentially get a rework like this:
Kindred:
*Upon being hooked, grant all survivors a 3% speed boost for 30/40/50 seconds.
*While hooked, all survivors' healing speed is increased by 15%.
*When you unhook any survivor, you both gain 5% movement speed for 10/12.5/15 seconds.
Just a concept, what'd you think?
I don't know. I am not sure how I feel about aura-reading being a baseline. I kind of like that it requires a perk slot in order to be able to tell where your teammates are after hooks and where the killer is; but I do like the speed-enhancement idea. Though, speed is an iffy thing to touch. Survivors already have loops and stuff to escape chases; I don't know about giving them more speed to get out of a chase if the killer decides to pursue them after unhook - and if it overlaps with the upon being hooked speed buff as well
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Most likely, because as others have pointed out, it is more work on the Devs to separate healing attributes and allow one type over another; and it would make Madness 3 not as useful or punishing for Survivors to stay in (The way it is now, M3 punishes even Calm Spirit users that happen to get into the state; preventing them from doing channels until they snap out of it).
On a related note, apparently it is fine for the Doctor's power to completely prevent Survivor actions -- but Freddy had to be reworked and his dream state had to have its "slowing Survivor action speeds" removed and put entirely on an add-on (and only slightly)...effectively making being asleep not really that big of an issue and not something survivors are just 'dying' to break out of.... what's up with that?
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Channeling times aren't a bad idea - maybe 5 seconds for Dull and 3 seconds for Skeleton.
I would say changing it to where keys are only beneficial to 1 Survivor instead of allowing all living and in the vicinity to escape within 30 seconds, would go a long way -- of course that would require retiring or changing the 'All Survivors Escaped Through Hatch' trophy. Or, make Dull Keys close immediately after you like you suggested, and change Skeleton keys to be 15 seconds hatch stays open instead of 30, to reduce their effectiveness but not outright make them useless for multi-escapes.
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I have always been an advocate that all killers should be viable and good without the need for add-ons; and that add-ons should only 'alter' the gameplay of a killer, not make or break them. A rank 20 newbie killer with no add-ons should be just as dangerous and deadly as a killer with add-ons that change different aspects of their playstyle. It should never be the case where if you do not have an add-on for that killer, you may as well not play them.
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@SheNeedAMan said:
I would love to get a training mode where I can practice working on generators or identifying traps. The fact this communities only answer to anything is "git gud" but the game doesn't give me a way to practice at my own pace is counter intuitive.
The devs will never read this but if they do, not everyone learns the say, or at the same speed. I want to get better so i dont feel like im cheated at every match i play. I want to understand how to loop and be a better player. The lack of a free practice mode doesnt help that.
Saying "you need a safe space, LUL" is also counter intuitive. Playing a game over and over again without being able to do anything besides getting chased for less then 5 seconds then getting killed is not fun. I am not learning anything besides how to die fast.
DLC is nice if done correctly. This is not done correctly. The shop is predatory by nature. Survivors and killers are locked behind a paywall. Limiting learning how to play as and against them. Then getting rituals for survivors i dont own, and killers as well, is predatory. at least have a killer and survivor on free rotation. "You're just a cheap person." Yes, I bought this game on sale. And I try to be frugal, but having a game lock content behind paywalls is not how to split your player base.
Devs please make a practice mode for training, and please dont be like EA and monetize everything.
I don't see a problem at all with a training mode that allows you to practice the basics. The problem would be how to code AI for the training mode so that you can actually make progress with your practices; which is why I think the mode doesn't exist. You can't code an AI system to account for human whims.
Until then, just a few tips I give all my friends that are still trying to get the hang of things --
Don't sprint anywhere unless you are closing distance between you and a hooked survivor and need just a little burst; bolting to an opened exit gate, or you are in a chase. The number 1 problem I see with many Survivor players is sprinting everywhere constantly, because many don't understand that it leaves scratch marks which then lead the killer along your path - and can result in either you getting found and caught (and often questioning how) or you 'lead' the killer into your teammates without meaning to because they followed your marks.
By the same token, learning how to properly lead killers on chases and lose them is difficult and takes time - but even though you are sprinting, try to learn how to spin your camera to gauge the killer's distance from you - and try to sprint-vault through windows to add just a little extra time if you need to. Once you have some slight distance, trying to change up your scratch marks by sprinting in one direction; but walking in another or around and object you can hide around to try and lose the killer. (I am still pretty terrible at running and looking behind me as I do so, but getting better at giving the killer the slip).
Lastly, don't be afraid to not save your teammates - especially in the early game. This one, many Survivor mains will say is toxic or unhelpful, but sometimes the best thing to do is to ignore if your teammate is being hooked (running perks like Kindred for your early leveling matches is a good idea too, to see killers if they camp the hooks too closely) and instead try to get a generator done in that time. Early game, there are 2 other survivors that will - most likely - try to make their way to get the unhook because altrustism is just hard-wired into many Survivor players' minds by streamers and the Devs' reward system. Kindred is also useful there, because if you see other teammates moving towards the hook - you can focus on objectives instead and not put yourself in unnecessary risk to a killer laying in wait for the survivors to come to them.
Until a time when BHVR starts reward Survivors with a % of BP earned by their teammates during the match (which I keep suggesting to them everywhere it comes up; 10% of all other players' scores at time of death/escape added as bonus BP post-game), the game doesn't really "reward" you any better for putting yourself in harm's way instead of just making sure you put yourself and your safety above others and only play altruistically when it is safe/appropriate and sometimes you only end up getting yourself killed so your teammate can be the one to focus on themselves and escape.
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@Nos37 said:
Take away DC penalty if 2 or more Survivors are in the dying state
Ha, no. Just quit having the mentality of "I'm not having fun; so I'll just DC". The game is a team-based game. DC-ing because your personal enjoyment tanked because you were the unlucky victim of the killer is just selfish and you, in most cases, screw over your entire team by doing so. Even if you are being face camped, if your team is not a sack of "senpai I unhooked you, notice me" fucktards and actually does their gens, you are buying them considerable time by hanging on the hook instead of forcing yourself to die because "you're bored".
It's funny how bad Survivors have an altruistic "we're in this together" mentality and rush to save their friends and teammates so they don't die and leave them without a member -- but then turn around and want to be able to leave the match at the slightest inconvenience for them with no penalty.
And as stated by HellCatJane - it would just be abused by people going afk; and unless the hatch gets changed to automatically open at the start of the sacrifice animation when the 2nd-to-last Survivor dies, it won't ever happen.
If you want an incentive to stay; pressure BHVR to do post-match BP rewards -- 10% of the scores of each other player in the match if you stick around -- meaning if your team was good but you got unlucky, you could still get some decent BP; and if the killer was good and farmed a lot you get a portion of that to for sticking around through the match instead of just giving up. Of course; there's no way to do a benefit for 'early dying'; but it gives incentive to stick it out as much as possible to reap the benefits of your teammates at the moment you do die or escape.
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@Sinner5Gonn4Sin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1097408#Comment_1097408
And killers like Hag or Freddy shouldn't ?
This.. literally vault out of a 2nd story window and land no-problem with Michael on several occasions. No delay or anything other than the slow animation.
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@Twinbros said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1097123#Comment_1097123
Thank you for proving my point, evidently if the record is on repeat then there is a consensus among players that this isn't working. And your tears for Hex Ruin are pretty delicious not gonna lie. That perk was broken and able to single handedly give killers a ggez 4 kill match. That would be like giving survivors a hex ruin where all gen progress was increased by 10% until killer took out totem. It's stupid and the new system forces killers to actually EARN their kills.
And no, DS does not need nerfs, it needs the buff to deter bad killer behavior. Just because you are bad at playing killer doesn't mean you have to ruin it for the other 4 people. I'm also assuming your a strong advocate for making a barren 10x10 maps with hooks as walls so all the killer needs to do is spam a button and hook people for wins. Because your entire post seems to be a big whine about how you are bad at the game and cant secure kills unless you have the "I'm lazy, I win" button. Statistics don't lie and from Behaviors own stats killers are doing just fine with most averaging 65+ % kill. That's 2-3 kills for the vast majority of games, if that number was below 50% I might take your comments seriously.
I didn't suggest getting rid of DC penalties, which you would have known had you actually read the post. I suggested that changes be made so it isn't punishing people who have no control over the situation. And no it won't work for other reasons either, because I still DC when I see a killer face camp another survivor on hook and no DC penalty will change that either.
Completely disregarding everything you said about skill because you sound like a "but I can't troll and loop the killer with 1-hits; or I was victim of camping and it made me sad, punish them" Survivor main....especially saying DS needs a buff because of "bad killer behavior". When BHVR comes along and says that the behavior is not legitimate - then it becomes bad behavior. Until then; ######### your personal enjoyment of the game, the object is to win right? Survivors need to quit bitching and moaning left and right until matches because trolling juke-fests anytime they have to so much as play the slightest bit more carefully.
A system that determines if a DC was intentional or unintentional would cost too much money for BHVR. Hell, they don't even want to invest in a game recording system so you can report in-game and it automatically send gameplay from the previous game.
It is much easier for BHVR to blanket punish; and the DC penalty is reasonable enough that it doesn't constantly hammer on penalties unless you are constantly DC'ing -- and if you are DC'ing enough that it is handing out penalities so often, you probably shouldn't be playing the game to begin with. Catering to low-end ISP is a bad idea; catering to the off-chance a DC was actually unintentional is also a bad idea.
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@Twinbros said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1097917#Comment_1097917
There are a few good killers who don't have a "I'm lazy I win" button and do perfectly fine. Guess it all comes down to the skill of the player. Killers with no skill tend to gravitate towards 1 hit killers because they are garbage at chases or simply bad at the game. Killers who know how to chase or play the game don't need the "I'm lazy, I win" button.
Gotta love the mentality of efficiency = no skill that runs rampant in this game.
Camping/Tunneling - efficient; unfun for the victim yes, but it is efficient for killers because Survivors are altrusitic little shits and will come to you in almost all cases; it is the perfect way to bait out survivors because overwhelmingly they won't leave their teammate to just die.
1 hit mechanics - efficient; unfun for the victim, but efficienct because the killer vastly speeds up their kill times and can screw over many of the survivors 2nd chance perks (which is mostly why survivors get mad; because they don't get as many second chances to get away that they normally would).
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Alright, I can see the arguments of breaking free -- then falling from the height should have the same 'delay' that Survivors get; killer doesn't drop the survivor, but they shouldn't be able to hop off buildings with no care. Either delay or give a bump to the wiggle meter for falling. And this is coming from someone that vastly prefers playing killer.
Or; if they are on a balcony and go down -- just leave 'em to bleed out unless they choose to crawl off the balcony.
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Not bad; but I always favor rewarding stealth by having a 'bonus BP' awarded at the end of match for percentage of game not found by killer or in a chase; as well as giving all Survivors a Bonus 10% of whatever their teammates earn to reward them based on how well their team played.
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Another record on repeat. "DC won't work" "Campers need to be punished" "Buff DS to stop tunneling"....
Camping and hyper-focusing became prominent because Survivors hated Hex: Ruin and found it irritating to go up against; and it messed with gen times so of course the Devs jumped on it and changed it. The change is actually better for the most part - just not at higher ranks. Lower ranks; Survivors are too damn potato-y to bother doing totems 90% of the time. Higher ranks; they just genrush anyway and don't have to worry about decay. Now, killers that relied on old Ruin; are now camping their hooks and 'puppy guarding' them to guarantee they can get their kills to slow the game down ----- and because Survivors don't just ignore their team mates, it works because everyone stops doing gens and fights to unhook the survivor. Which means game was slowed down.
DS doesn't need a buff. If anything, 2nd chance perks need nerfs in almost all regards; and Self-Care needs to be looked at and changed from being infinite uses.
DC penalities will work purely because it will hinder the players that quit because "they aren't having fun" for whatever petty reason -- downed and not allowed to escape a chase; allowed to get ot struggle phase when on first hook; don't like map; don't like killer.... and it punishes them for having the selfish mentality of "my fun" over sticking through the game - even if it is to buy teammates time but hanging on a camped hook.
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@TossAhCoin said:
WGLF is mostly only useful enough to take up an entire perk slot during 2x Bloodpoint events.
Combining it with Dark Sense would help bring it more to the level of BBQ and help with the huge BP disparity considering that almost every Killer uses BBQ.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/167/B8288HELJHS6.jpg
It could even give a stack for repairing the equivalent of a full gen to prevent the battling for unhooks aka "hook humping" that's mostly common during 2x BP events.
Honestly; just increasing the ability to get stacks from completing gens - our actual objective - would be logical. It might be less effective than BBQ's aura tracking; so at bare minimum - add the generators give a stack; at optimal - merge it with dark sense and just remove dark sense.
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Honestly, I think it would be a decent step in the right direction to make killers more frightening and dangerous to go up against instead of being trolled. Apparently, the Devs are also interested in making all gen-slow-down perks unable to synergize with one another; so this wouldn't allow gens to be super-slowed by gen-specific perks alone if they go through with this attitude.
Survivors have 4 perks -- and 4 people; that's 16 perks going against the killer and their 4 perks... and the Survivors perks are overwhelmingly 2nd chances or aura reading -- so giving the killer a 5th perk slot wouldn't 'break' the game, but would make it more difficult for Survivors to toy around with the killer as is the norm for many players.
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@WaffleFalafel said:
@Raptorrotas That isn't going to happen. The same idea was proposed during the PTB and the devs said that the killer could easily camp gates and it made it pretty much impossible for the last survivor to escape. So, they ultimately decided against adding it in.
Sounds like Devs should get creative with the idea then instead of just "no that's inconvenient, throw it out." like they do most ideas and tweaks. Seriously, two exit gates - regression only triggers when Killer is standing within 8 meters of the switch - and only progresses while the killer remains within that 8 meters -- this gives survivors time to go to the other exit gate and raise it's progress. Keep the regression slow - like '1 second progress per 2 seconds standing near it' exchange.