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@Marcavecunc said:
What's with everyone suggesting turning perks into hex perks (and weaker versions of the original non-hex version, too?) blood warden works just fine the way it is now.
A lot of it? To push Survivors hunting down totems to slow the game down a tiny bit. Right now, it is primarily - tap on a gen. Did Ruin or Huntress' Lullaby pop up? No? Then not much need to worry about totems because NOED isn't as rampant as people make it out to be. More perks becoming hexes, especially those that use Dull Totems to do it would force survivors to at least be encouraged to break the Totems for more of a reason than just 1k BP.
As for the being weaker -- because if they were as strong or any stronger to compensate, they'd be shot down just as hard because they're "too strong" or "too challenging or annoying" for survivors to go against.
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Just the usual Satisfaction Survey given by companies. Game Devs are no different. Questions about everything but the major issues that people are actually concerned about; a comment box at the end that they can just skim or ignore. The usual stuff. They know the issues we have -- Survs think Killers are still too strong and they need 3-4 survive games to be 85% rate; Killers have been begging them to address gen speeds and game speeds but they won't because it "inconveniences" Survs to sit on gens and hold a button; they won't touch Self-Care out of fear of recoil.... they'd rather leave the major issues we all have to the forums -- where they can keep ignoring it to crank out more DLC/Lore $$$ grabs.
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@Fibijean said:
The devs did talk about addressing generator speed in their last livesream. This is what they said (quoted from my summary post on the stream - this is not a direct quote from the devs themselves):
They are looking into possible changes to toolboxes and the repair speed bonus they provide, although they haven’t settled on anything concrete yet. They probably will not be increasing base generator repair times, because they don’t want to force the survivors to spend too long just sitting there and holding M1. They do consider match length to be an important factor to consider, and they are listening to feedback around that, but they feel that there are more interesting ways to affect match length than just increasing generator times.
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They have been very careful lately with survivor perks that affect generator speed, and based on the community feedback they’ve been receiving regarding generator speeds, the problem seems to lie mainly with toolboxes rather than perks, which is why toolboxes are what they’re focusing on adjusting at the moment.
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Rather than introducing an entirely new secondary objective, it’s more likely that there will be additional focus placed on existing side objectives, like the totem system, to which there will probably be some adjustments made in the short term.
They also mentioned that they have plans to reduce map sizes in the future, which should allow killers to be able to apply pressure more effectively.
If you're interested in reading my full summary of the stream, you can find it here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/123532/i-watched-the-dev-stream-so-you-dont-have-to-once-again/p1
Of course their reasoning would involve inconveniencing the Survivors.
Honestly, you know what would keep Survivors doing more than just holding M1 or whatever?? Increasing skill checks (and decreasing great's bonuses to compensate of course) to be pretty frequent so they have to focus harder on what they're doing instead of repairing idly and scanning for the killer while doing so. I'd go so far as to say add in the inability to rotate camera to see anything that isn't in a frontal cone - but we all know that would be "going too far".
Veteran players wouldn't be affected too bad; newer players may have a harder time but can learn to hit skill checks a lot better if they actually HAPPEN more frequently than like 5 a match sometimes; But, you can almost bet that it would help some games because more missed skill checks would lead to more notifications going off (and might actually make Technician more useful because it has more of a chance to do something).
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Not mad about the Ruin Change; honestly I like that it constantly drains Gens without me having to kick them and even just staying off a near-completed gen for 30-45 seconds is enough to nearly regress it completely.
What I am irritated with, is the amount of killers that have used it as a crutch for so long that they can't find their new 'grove'; so their answer -- extreme tunneling; face camping hooks; overly slugging; and sometimes just outright toxic hit-hooked-survivors-repeatedly-while-camping to ensure they at least get that 1 kill in to make sure survivors are down a member (even when you can still get significant BP by just farming/attacking/chasing survivors more than 1 time per match).
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Would be nice! Unfortunately this will never happen because the Devs need a way to give incentive buying the DLC/characters to speed up the process. The same reason unlocking characters by actually playing the game takes a ridiculous 9,000 Shards -- to pressure people into buying the DLC packs or characters with real-money.
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These seems reasonable. Though honestly, I'd prefer the devs get off their asses and do something about punishing DC's to begin with first. There's also that part of me that thinks the Hatch shouldn't even exist because Survivor's shouldn't get an alternate escape route outside the Exit Gates. Lol
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@RainbowSuperLoki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1045638#Comment_1045638
I get what you mean.
I think we can get a middle ground. Something like 40 seconds max. sounds okay strong.
For the downing part, I get why you would like it better that way, but honestly, does it really make a big difference between downing and hooking ? I know hooking takes a little more time, but from my own experience, few survivors actually exit before you show up at the gates, so the effect usually has time to trigger.
The other problem with your rework, though not as important, is that it does not necessarily block the two gates at the same time. That doesn't necessarily mean it is bad, but one of the perks of the original Blood Warden is that while it is active, no one can leave. And that's about it. They're literally stuck in the realm for 60 seconds, which I think was part of why the original perk is a fun and nasty surprise.
Honestly the only reason to change to downing over hooking is because overwhelmingly any matches I play as a Killer; I usually have: only 1 survivor left (either the ABSURD amount of Survivor DC's took care of 1 or 2 prior or I killed them already; or the other 3 are teabagging in an exit gate somewhere) once they actually get downed then as soon as I grab them , if there is enough EGC time the others will sometimes try to come save - or they just flee that instant making Warden pointless; or I have multiple survivors alive and down someone, but then get bodyblocked/flashlight stunned or some other mechanic in the Exit Gate area and they crawl to their safety.
I get what you're saying about affecting both gates and I would definitely say to go back affecting both at the same time if the perk was change to have longer times. Really the biggest downside I see with changing to downing over hooking it is encourages the killer to down someone to trigger it -- and then slug 'em and go down the others while they can't escape instead of having to worry they'll be unhooked by someone.
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@RainbowSuperLoki said:
The problem, good sir, is that your version of the perk actually makes it worse than it already is.
Blood Warden isn't so bad as it is right now. I don't really think it needs change.
Your idea with the Dull Totems makes it more similar to NOED and is quite a good idea, but the problem is that you've made the effect significantly worse.
Blocking the Exit for 20 seconds, is, sadly, too inconsequential. Even though it is harder to pull off, blocking the exits for 60 seconds is much more powerful and actually gives you time to get a second hook.
The nasty part is also the surprise. If you open the gates and you see they close right as the exit is visible, there is no surprise element anymore.
I like the idea to exploit Dull Totems, but I think you've made Blood Warden almost unusable due to the way this rework's effect is tremendously weaker in length than the original one.
Honestly the numbers were adjusted because I felt Survivor Mains would come in and be like "that would be way too long" if it was the 30/40/60 Seconds blocking that it is currently by hooking during EGC.
If I had it in the optimal suggestion - Same 30/40/60 but either made into a Totem or I do like the idea of it being a surprise if it was changed to just downing the Survivor and not hooking them. But thanks for the feedback!
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@Ivaldi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1037343#Comment_1037343
I've never seen anyone complain about Ruin being too powerful. The only issues were always the matches where a totem would be impossible to find. I mean it's become so bad I literally had a match last night where a Wraith sat invisible next to a hook just to instant down the survivor and Mori them or anyone that tried to get them.
Killers seem to forget that Survivors were nerfed into the ground as well.. Self Care? D-Strike? Insta Heals? Balanced Landing? And now BVHR is talking about nerfing Tool Boxes?
Killers already have a massive advantage over Survivors and toxic behavior using tunneling and mori's are what's causing the DBD community to move onto other games.
Personally, still feel like Self-Care needs a limit on usage per match.
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Hate to say it but this. Killers have come to rely on Ruin so much that it is ingrained in their minds that they can't play and enjoy the game without it; so they've started tunneling and camping in troves to make sure they get their kills instead of building BP from other gameplay. It isn't just the higher ranks though, it's almost every killer I have come across since the nerf. And funnily enough; generators are getting done the same speeds as pre-nerf even if they are being sweaty and toxic now. So Ruin wasn't really doing MUCH; but you know the devs of this game --- if survivors cry enough, the Devs will grant their wishes.
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@tt_ivi_99 said:
Lmao another cry baby killer. Get inside your head that everything can be countered. Some counters are better than others, just like characters, there are some top tiers and some low tiers. There are low tier perks like No Mither and top tier perks like DS. The thing is you just want an easy counter for DS. Survivors dont complain about Billy or Nurse they just take that BS. Besides I never said anything about wanting more counters aginst killers lol, I dont know where you got that from, champ...Malakir said:
No wait, are you seriously comparing DS to stuff like brutal strength? Or thanatophobia? One of the worst killers perk? Or even franklin? Are you okay dude?tt_ivi_99 said:
Just like there is no way to counter Brutal Strenght, Pop Goes the Weasel, Enduring, Spiritual Fury, Sloppy Butcher, Tanatophobia, Coulrophobia, Unnerving Presence, Overwhelming Presence, Franklins Demise, etc.TragicSolitude said:Your suggestion is a bit extreme, but something does need to be done about survivors who refuse to leave. And the lone survivor who sticks around after everyone else is gone to search for the hatch (like no bonus reward for using the hatch after any other survivor has escaped through the exit gates).
I also think DS should not work once the gates are powered or the hatch is open, to discourage the survivors who save their DS to troll the killer at the end of the game. It's not fun to down someone at the exit gate only for them to use DS and run right out. There is no counter to that as a killer (no hook would be close enough to dribble them to, there's no way to position yourself in a way that blocks them from getting through the exit, and you can't even slug them because they can easily crawl out).
If a survivor saves his DS and activates it in the right time is bad and should be nerfed, but when a Michel Myers saves his Tier 3 and activates it in the right time nothing happens. Hypocrite.
First of all you wanna have more counters against killers, and you're the numerous role just saying, second you don't even realize how many counter you have as survivor just for being a survivor
Lets take one of the most used perks, BBQ. 3 perk less counters methods. Nurse, use brain. Spirit fury you say? Drop the pallet earlier instead of stunning, wait until he break the pallet to run to another loop or hide. Look, no perk required! Sloppy butcher.. Botany knowledge, big revelation I know. Franklin.. Who still use this perk? And the same goes on many of your examples
DS counters.. Dribbling if the hook is close enough with the downside of wasting time and weak to body block, one person is enough. I can already hear "USE ENDURING REEEEEEEEE", so durning prevents you to get free of my shoulders? No? Okay then doesn't counter it, just makes It less painful to watch the guygirl going on another loop
Its cute how you compare a killer power to DS now just to have a point. He has an insta down, so what? He has to stalk and good survivors can keep you tier one or two for fairly long. If he can get you popping tier 3 any other Insta down would've done the trick. Still not an issue especially with Myers, one of the killers I have the most fun playing against
Anyway by reading your posts I already know where your bias are and how stubborn you are. Still, had fun debunking these.. I don't know how to describe it without being too rude.. Theories? Mh wait, """"theories"""' , now its more believableLmao. Lmfao! Surivors don't complain about Billy or Nurse.... ######### survivors complain about everything that gets in the way of them being able to just 'play for fun' with as little tension or stress as possible. Well over 90% of the nerfs and buffs I see released for this game are BECAUSE of survivors -- this is nerfed becasue survivors find it too challenging or unfun to play against; this is buffed because survivors found it too weak or underperforming. ######### these devs won't even TOUCH the Self-Care perk because they're too terrified about survivor backlash.
Survivors are like the slutty cheerleaders of the school -- they have the school board and teachers (the devs) wrapped around their fingers and feign victim in every situation that inconveniences them; and when anyone else has a complaint, it is ignored if it doesn't benefit the survivors. Devs have made it BY FAR clear that their mentality is "killers should have to play tense and challenging games; but survivors need to be able to just hop in and play for fun". Survivors are by far the most favored players because the devs are TERRIFIED that if they do anything that makes Survivors have to actually try or not freaking goofaround/troll/bully/taunt their way through games, that the players will quit because "the game is too hard" and Survivor players are more important to the devs than killers because matches need 4 survs.
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@Marcavecunc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1032586#Comment_1032586
Oh god. "trying to get inside your locker while you're in it"
Just for that alone, I vote no for that idea. If you play with friends, they'll ignore your locker and move on. But there are too many toxic survivors who don't care about their teammates who'll try to jump in your locker in front of the killer on purpose just to let them know you're there. (but I guess with head on you can just stun them, but still)
Lol literally had a match yesterday where one player ran over to me (using Bond to see me) and led the killer on his chase there; and then later, ran directly to my friend and tried to get into his locker during a chase (saw him get into the locker first) so the killer would get him instead.
Needless to say when that survivor got hooked my friend and I completely ignored him and worked on our objectives in peace. XD
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While I do agree with the general premise, I do have to ask -- have too many matches of survivors trying to get inside your locker while you're in it? Lol
Regardless, I think survivors should be able to see any other survivor in a locker when they get near that locker.
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Actually punish DC'ers and stop with the dev's crybaby mentality of 'Don't report DC' using the in-game report. Start issuing bans for DC's like they were testing a while back; and while we're at it revamp the 'pip' system so you cannot depip under any circumstance (I think that's stupid ######### anyway given the matchmaking system doesn't care about rank lately and throws everyone together); or if you refuse to remove de-pip to avoid playing higher rank killers or lobby times then start freaking caring about consoles when they report in-game. AND let us freaking report more than one player at the end game if there are multiple DC's instead of only being able to report one (which I still do anyway because screw you devs and your lenience on DC's because you're too scared to do anything to survivors).
Became 100x worse with dedicated servers hitting console; Survivor gets downed - DC. Survivor gets hooekd but someone can;t get to them before struggle phase starts - DC; Survivor dies on hook, DC before death finishes; Don't like the map you spawned into - DC after match starts so it doesn't end the match completely. It's absolute bullshit.
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@YourBoyTroy said:
I am dead serious about this being a hex.
Nurse's calling you have to hide and be far away to heal to counter it.
Bitter murmur requires you to finish a generator for the killer to see you.
Making BBQ and chili a hex or a scream silhouette would make the perk more fair.
Having finished hooking a survivor you can easily just walk to where you saw the survivor (How does that require skill?)
It's sad that killers need so many aura reading abilities to find survivors when you can easily just listen for whining from them or scratch marks from them running.
It literally takes no skill to be a killer.
Survivors literally have several perks that ignore the stealth abilities of killers.... and yet, 'Killers have too many aura reading perks'??? Tell you what, we can put BBQ as a Hex; but let's also make things like Spine Chill, OoO, and other Survivor aura reading/detection perks unable to detect any killer using a stealth ability or mechanic -- killers like Phased Spirit, Ghostface, EW1 Myers, Freddy, Wraith, or any killer using something like Insidious.
BBQ forces Survivors to have to stop gen-rushing and make a decision -- move within a certain range of the killer to avoid detection; find a locker to hide in; or move off their current objective for a few seconds and make their way back to it. Otherwise, stay working on your generator or inching your way to the hooked survivor while your friend gets hooked and let the killer know where you are. BBQ Is a pressure perk to force Survivors out of the comfort of caring about themselves and staying away from the killer.
The problem is, most survivors from what I have seen, have an issue with anything that requires them to take time focusing on something that isn't a generator -- anything that interrupts their generator pushes will usually be complained about until the devs cave and nerf it in some shape or form because the general mentality is 'killers should have to play challenging games, but survivors should just be able to play for fun'.
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@MrWhyte said:
So you want to block the survivors main objective at the start of the game? Not a chance that will ever happen. Maybe if you're really pushing it... the repair speed will be reduced at the start of the game and it'll gradually increase to 100% after a set amount of time. Simply blocking the generators will leave the survivors with nothing to do (except break totems). They will most likely hide for the 20-30 seconds and nobody likes wasted time.
I think just like 20-30 seconds where gens don't get multi-surv bonuses to repair time would be useful for gen rushing - but at the same time not, because then survs would just either wait around to hop on the gen 20-30 seconds later; or they'll split up and work on 2-3 gens at a time instead of 1-2.
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While I can see where you are coming from on this, I don't think that would be very healthy for the game even if it did take a perk. Before I explain why though, it isn't very 'nice' of you to tell Marcavecunc not to post here if he doesn't agree with you -- the forums aren't for a only-people-who-agree-with-me.
As for why I don't think it would be healthy; the only thing it aids is killers -- it only helps killers in finding survivors before they can rush a gen or group up on a couple. Not only that, it completely negates the use of any shroud items and the fact that they are secret.
I play mainly killer, but I don't think killers need a way to immediately be able to find survivors as soon as the match starts, for an entire minute (which is only 20 seconds less than a single surv on a gen) and for potentially a while if they don't do any aggressive actions. Sure it would cost an entire perk slot, but you aren't really gaining that much 'benefit' outside being able to counter early rushing.
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That actually makes a lot of sense. Kind of a shame because hell, I have far more fun in the matches hitting, downing, hooking and letting them unhook and just building up a good pool of bloodpoints without the need ot complete sacs lol
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Sorry; PS4. I knew I forgot something lol
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@Peanits said:
The limits probably won't go away. They double as a safety measure to prevent someone from farming a radical amount of points (at most, you can get 8,000 in any category). There could always be more way to get points, though.
I do just want to ask on this though -- how does having more ways to 'get' bloodpoints help a situation if those options are in the same categories? Honestly, the limits are just a 'we need you to keep grinding' and a way to prematurely end matches because you literally can't get anymore points, even if you are playing really well. It's extremely annoying, especially with the bloodweb still being ridiculously pricey and leveling reaallly slow.
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I agree with this - DC's are getting ridiculous any frequent just because a Survivor doesn't like that 'they were the first to go' or whatever. Or that they won a chase but found themselves caught again by pure chance across the map (had that happen a lot too). Or don't like that they couldn't win a chase because they couldn't 360-I'm-a-ghost-look-at-me straight through you (still think Killers should have collision physics; screw survs crying about being 'pinned' in a corner -- don't run into a corner).
I think Killer's should be compensated a full 5k -- the max that you are cut off from earning in categories usually (because 'boo the games would take too long without an earning cap to encourage ending the game instead of dragging it out for farming). 625 I think was what I got in my last DC game. Pathetic.
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From a killer's perspective at least, here are at least some of my ideas on the matter:
A - Understand that while most survivors will call it "unfun" or "bad" gameplay; camping hooks has been stated by devs as a viable strategy for killers - even if they do get less bloodpoints for doing it. During this time, Survivors can either risk the save or get the gens done.
B - Maybe the killer has a daily to complete hook sacrifices with a killer that they hate playing -- and don't want to have to take more matches than needed by backing off and letting survivors free each other (because someone gets hooked; all 3 survivors stop working on gens and try to save that survivor almost always at least from my experience in these lower ranks).
C - If a killer is anything like most people in the world; if you have been griefing/trolling the Killer throughout the match -- bullying them with body blocks or flashlights or trying to lure killers into chasing you all the way across the map to free their friends (all of which are "viable" (I used the term like this because of the survivors sentiment that camping isn't "viable" on killers) survivor strategies) instead of working on the generators or avoiding the killer -- then normally when those players finally get you downed, they will camp you to make sure you don't get a chance to keep doing so the rest of the match.
The problem isn't really what is viable or not viable; or fun or not fun for killers and survivors -- but fundamentally, the fact that the game has such a messed up way of 'rewarding' players for not playing the way their 'team' should (survivors rewarded for pestering and bullying killers instead of being reward for avoidance and objectives only like they should be; killers rewarded for letting survivors have "a chance" instead of ruthlessly guaranteeing their deaths like they should be). It is the backwards reward system that the devs have in place that encourages using such tactics. Essentially - camp a target; you know survivors are going to still try to attempt to be altrusitic because of the bloodpoints of doing so, so it is easier to wait around and not walk off to let 'Sneaky Jim' who has been hiding in bushes tailing you the entire match, run in and unhook them the moment you leave.
Not necessarily fun for the person on the hook - but unfortunately not anything that can really be 'done' about it.
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As a survivor, yes slugging sucks - but most survivors are running in teams where everyone is using self-care and sneaking around the map constantly healing everyone up to full health endlessly because self-care desperately needs a usage amount nerf. BUT I recognize that it is a viable tactic against overly altrustic and 'sneaky' survivors that drag the game out by focusing more on saving and healing one another than finishing their gens.
As a killer -- you troll me, you purposefully try to get caught or get me to chase you into certain area; you loop me; you heal up the entire survivor team to full health for the 30th time in the match --- yes, I will slug you. I will slug the hell out of you, laugh while I do it, and go find that annoying gnat hiding in bushes just waiting to patch everyone up again instead of working on any gens.
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Honestly; the emblems feature is just an excuse to drag out certain aspects of gameplay or give incentive to play a certain way (Killers punished for staying too close to hooked survivors; when while it does block unhooking points for survivors it gives them free gen time; for example). A better system imho would be to just have your ranks rise up like you 'level' does, and every couple of weeks or so just reset the rankings.
It's more in line with most games "play to gain progress; reset and play again" mentality; removes the need to try to 'depip' so you don't play against higher ranks (because let's face it there just aren't enough players to have a mm system that pairs based off of rank that well); and all it really does to impact the feel game is hurt the e-peen strokers' egos because being a high rank just means you played a lot now (which, let's be real, that's essentially what they do now just with extra steps that you played a lot while doing activities the devs give you brown-nosing points for).
EDIT - After thinking on it; the opinion stays the same but the speed of the game as a whole would need to be addressed because a no emblem system just encourages finshing games quickly.So, slowing down how fast generators can be finished would definitely need to be addressed with it.
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I have said since this game came out and my friend introduced me to it; that this game needs the fear factor brought back to it - that survivors need to quit being babied up so they can 'win' with at least 3 escapes being average; and that a killer should be 4x as powerful and frightening as any solo survivor because it is 4 v 1.
Instead, we got Horror!Fortnite -- Survivors that just taunt and emote the killer while running around playing with them and toying with them instead of actively trying to avoid them and desperately attempt to escape. A huge problem is the killer's inability to kill without 'sacrificing' the victim; takes a massive amount of fear away from them. With 4 survivors, the average escapes should be 2 at most; something like 40/60 1-2 escape; 3 escape should be challenging and 4 escape should be a miracle. Instead we have 3 escapes being far more common than they should be, and 4 escapes don't really take much effort because ANY time the survivors have to start showing effort or it becomes more challenging for them to just rush the gens down in a couple of minutes; they cry out and the devs are like 'oh we are so sorry; let us fix that for you'. Generators go way to fast to not have a second objective; killers are a joke; and the entire game is just a safe-zone for survivors while the killers are constantly getting shafted and have to put forth more and more effort while the survivors get easier and easier times to 'play for fun'.
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@HazeHound said:
If you read the update notes carefully you will notice all changes are meant to be "fun" for only one side of the game. Just pay attention to the wording. Rank 15s to be specific. I personally don't use ruin (i learned to hit greates as survivor because its in every game, now it doesn't affect me too much and i can heal faster because of it) because it actually helps survivors to get better and it doesn't work on really good ones, when you actually need help as killer. Still i think it will be the most useless hex perk after the change. I don't like tru3 that much but he made good reaction vid about it.
Don't expect too much, the same people worked on this update as on drop pallet on or flashlight killer without caring about timing and he will drop survivor 100% of times update. It shows how unfamiliar with their own game they are. Anything requiring effort as survivor = bad for them.
Honestly anything that makes it less than common for Survs to escape 3 or 4-Live gets screamed about. Survs should be averaging 2 escape games with 3 requiring some effort and 4 being rare, given their proportion in the asymmetry -- but WC is terrified that if they actually made the game where Killers were frightening and dangerous (because logically Killer should be 4x stronger than any single Surv) and Survivors couldn't tea-bag and emote their way like it's a goddamn Fortnite game, that they'll lose all their Surv players and their already horrendous queue times will suffer because of it.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/962939#Comment_962939
But then we’d hardly have any grind.
That's why instead of removing it completely; reduce the grind and find a middle ground between players that don't have the time to/want to spend hundreds of hours devoted to this game, and the players that play DBD religiously. Something like lowering teachable perk level requirements or something. But the poll didn't have that option, so Yes was the next best thing.
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Vote is yes; only because the game doesn't "need" a grind on the level that these other players believe it does. There needs to be some grind I suppose (though seriously, I don't really think so; just let people go to town surviving and killing one another and having fun with builds), but the progression is so extremely slow and definitely requires you to sink ridiculous amounts of time into the game -- JUST to get to a point where you can play the character you want, the way you want; after spending HOURS leveling characters you don't care about but have the one perk you need here and there.