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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3069828#Comment_3069828
To be fair, this has always been the case during this time of the day. At least in EU. Survivor Queues were usually instant until around 7 or 8 PM, then it switches at some point.
If there is still a Bonus in the evening this would mean that Survivors left. But currently, it is basically the same as always. (Obviously it could be possible that there are even less Survivors playing than usually during this time, but faster Survivor Queues at this point are normal)
It's 6 pm for me, often enough this is the time where killer queue times start to become almost instant. But the 100% bonus bloodpoints are still there for survivors at the moment.
I guess maybe it could also be because more people want to try out the new changes for killers, and that the queue times will even out after some days. But I personally believe killer queue times will remain longer, potentially very long, until camping and tunneling receive some actual, proper nerfs, especially now that camping has been buffed. That will surely get a lot of people to play survivor again, even people that have taken a break from the game for a long time already.
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@Laluzi said:
Weirdly, my survivor queues are rather slow despite the 100% bonus. Methinks that whatever checks for this bonus only refreshes every half hour or hour and it's not adjusting for when a bunch of bonus-seekers respond and saturate the queue.
That would make sense. I guess it would be a bit weird if it switched too dynamically. Especially if it made people lose the bonus bloodpoints before they got to start the match. Or if survivors would end up in the same match, some getting bonus bloodpoints, and some not.
I still think this will be the norm, and that killer queue times will be longer than survivor queue times almost constantly.
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Lmao I just wanted to make a post on that myself. It was also the first thing I wanted to check out after the patch drops. No surprise there.
I also don't think you are being overdramatic. I will surely still try out solo queue. But until they actually add some proper nerfs to camping and tunneling, I believe we will be seeing this exact image the entire time lmao.
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So yet one less counter for survivors to get each other out during endgame?
Killers have a fair chance of getting 4 kills, why on earth should survivors not have a fair chance of getting a 4 man escape? This is really getting ridiculous.
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@HectorBrando said:
Ok I saw the video, lets point several things that were conviniently omited.
- First chase was a DISASTER, I can count at least 4 mistakes (one very big one) before getting the first hit.
- Of course he is going to lose 5 gens in 4 minutes (4º gen pops at 3:50, closer to 4 minutes than 3), he camped Meg at first hook with 3 gens still (technically 4 but the house gen was lost, he couldnt appply pressure to stop it being finished with Clown), camping gets countered by genrushing, which is what most Killer mains parrot in the camping complain threads, those Survivors did what they are supposed to do in a camping situation.
- He still got 4K regardless.
What this video proves is camping is actually quite strong, since the Survivors used the current counter and they still got decimated against a low tier Killer with an atrocious perk build against a player who made plenty of mistakes on his only real chase (yes, the guy is good but he isnt infalible, he makes mistakes like everyone else).
You didn't even take the map into consideration, which is known to be very survivor sided, as it's the biggest map in the game, making patrolling, especially for killers like Clown, very hard.
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Almost everyone agrees that Clown is weak. Almost everyone agrees that Mother's Dwelling is survivor sided.
Plus True decided to camp and it didn't pay off because the other survivors simply decided to do gens.
And gen times are being increased, alongside a bunch of other killer buffs.
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For me Dredge is low A tier probably. And I agree, Dredge is one of the best designed killers in my opinion. He has great map pressure, that helps him with getting survivors off of gens, and his anti-loop is decent, but not particularly strong, leaving survivors with quite a lot of fair counterplay. He's just all around a very fun killer.
Right now, there is just one problem I have with him, and it's quite the big one. It's the stupid and unnecessary vignette effect on the screen of survivors during Nightfall, which darkens the edges of the screen, and makes seeing unnecessarily hard for some people, especially on dark maps. I am lucky to not be affected by this too much, but I do believe it's the main reason why Nightfall feels so inconsistent, and why some people have much more trouble seeing than they are intended to.
Nightfall is supposed to limit your visibility range, so that survivors can't see to far, but still enough to be able to navigate without getting stuck on objects. However, some people, especially those with sight issues, seem to be able to see almost nothing, if anything just a few meters away from them. And that should 100% not be a thing, it's ridiculously unfair for them, and a killer should never ever get a down because a survivor player can't see 5 meters ahead of them.
I might be wrong, but I do believe the vignette effect is the big problem here. And it seems so unnecessary, as it does not have anything to do with the actual intended effect of only being able to see a certain distance. I do not even care if they decrease the visibility range during Nightfall from 18 to 16 or 14 meters, but the devs absolutely need to make it consistent for every player, on every map.
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I do think 1 second might have been a bit too long for Dead Hard, but I agree, 0,5 seconds will make the perk pretty bad. 0,75 seconds would have been much better. But I rather have Dead Hard useless than too strong.
The same goes for Overcharge. As it's the one slowdown perk that is harsher on new survivors than on experienced survivors, because of the skillcheck, I really don't think this perk should be meta. If it did become meta, it should be without the skill check part.
I would say that I am pretty happy with all the changes mentioned in the dev update, but disappointed by the lack of other changes that were still really needed, like the DS and Self Care nerf that should have been reverted, and most importantly, still no actual, proper nerfs to camping and tunneling. The latter in particular I am positive will make a fair amount of survivor players, especially solo survivors, take a break from the game.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059929#Comment_3059929
Yup. People asked for survivor action portraits and they said not this year. Everything we get this year was announced on the anniversary, nothing more sadly.
And i don't have post link but you can check Peanit's comments. He was the one who explained.
Yeah that is indeed pretty disappointing. Kind of wish they would postpone some other stuff, maybe even something like bots, for these solo queue improvements. They would be so good. And survivor icons should definitely not take a year to implement, it's clearly only because they are focusing on so many other things, some of which seem less important to me currently.
However, I personally also think it would already go a very long way, especially for solo survivors, if camping and tunneling were simply nerfed adequately, in proportion to the killer buffs, so those strategies would be noticeably weaker. It would make the life of a solo survivor much more enjoyable.
So I am beyond hoping we will see nerfs to camping and tunneling very soon. And I feel they will kind of have to, because I just can not see killer queue times not go up a lot. While I still think solo survivor being dead is exaggerated, I am convinced a noticeable amount of solo survivors will take a break from this game until it's more fun again.
If they properly nerf camping and tunneling, I could probably live with the fact that these survivor icons won't make it into the game this year.
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@Beatricks said:
Can't have enough popcorn ready to watch Killer mains scramble and find new excuses as to why they are losing (not a skill issue of course).
Keep some of the popcorn for all the killers mains coming to cry about the long killer queue times, which I am positive will happen. It's what I am looking forward to at least.
To be fair, killer can be very rough against a very good survivor team, and the buffs that killers are getting are very good. But survivors not getting anything good against tunneling and especially camping as compensation is a serious problem. And yes, it's true that some people like to exaggerate how hard and even underpowered killer is, because they indeed can't accept mistakes, or simply being outplayed.
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Yes because those are the most common complaints about this patch. Not DS, or Self Care being overnerfed, or the fact that survivors are not getting any proper nerfs to camping and tunneling. Camping even being buffed.
And of course it's all just skillless survivors, that don't know how to play the game. Not people that don't want tunneling and camping to become even more effective, which by the way are far more skillless than anything survivors have, or people that simply don't want certain perks to be completely useless.
Not to mention that less experienced survivors are also a part of this community, and need to be able to have fun as well in this game.
But I hope telling yourself this will make the upcoming killer queue times more sufferable for you. Because I fear they will become pretty long.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059473#Comment_3059473
It is not my fault killers are grossly overpowered. When a Blight has pounded 3 survivors and everyone is already been hooked twice with 4 or 5 gens still up there is no reason to struggle.
Solos can't win when the killer has a couple of working brain cells.
Actually, solos can still win if they too have a couple of working brain cells. At least in the current version of the game. A lack of information that swf survivors have just makes this a bit harder, and matchmaking likes to screw over solo survivors quite a bit as well. But killers are surely not overpowered, except maybe for Blight and Nurse.
Problem is, killers are now getting some nice, impactful baseline buffs, which are all great, but survivors are getting nothing against camping and tunneling, which is not good, especially for solo survivors. Camping even getting buffed is the most ridiculous part here. So killers in general are getting some nice buffs, meaning there normal gameplay is being improved, making them less reliant on slowdown perks, and it also means more killers will be viable.
But tunneling is barely nerfed at all, and camping is not only not being nerfed, but buffed, which is ridiculous, because killer buffs like the ones we are getting should finally allow the devs to nerf these extremely unfun strategies to go against for survivors. Yet nothing is being done. And I am positive this will show noticebly in killer queue times.
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I still think that solo queue being dead is definitely an exaggeration, but I do agree that quite the amount of solo survivor players, and probably even some swf survivors, will take a break from the game. My guess is honestly 20 minutes, at least after a few days or a week or two.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059889#Comment_3059889
No solo buffs this year, this confirmed by community manager. Nothing good for survivors before June 2023 sadly.
Wait, did they really confirm that? When did they confirm that, and do you have a link to that post?
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@Tsulan said:
Good to see, that our community isn´t overreacting at all...
It's certainly a bit of an overreaction, definitely, though this is no rarity on forums such like this, but the OP definitely has a very valid point. These changes we are getting might be good, but survivors just aren't getting anything as compensation. There needed to be nerfs to tunneling and camping, proper ones, instead we just get 5 seconds of haste and endurance, and camping is even getting buffed, which is ridiculous.
I am positive a lot of survivor players, especially solo queue players, will take a break from this game, and killer queue times will very likely go up like crazy.
Though seeing some of the posts on these forums, I feel like some people just want those juicy killer queue times.
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The only problem I have is that so many perks, especially some of the strong ones, are locked behind dlc characters, some of them you have to pay for.
Honestly there should be a way to buy perks of characters with Iridiscent Shards in general, and maybe get rid of the Shrine of Secrets. Or keep it, but have the four perks featured in the Shrine of Secrets be reduced in price by a lot. Like only 500 Shards or something like that. Shrine of Secrets at the moment is just very outdated, with how many killers, survivors, and therefore new perks have been added to the game over the past years.
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@Marius1234456918 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059076#Comment_3059076
Bro i m not a dog. Why cant you talk about facts. I told you that there are games in which all gens are done in under 3mins and it is not even possible to do 12 hooks in that time and you are telling me sonething about appreciate the little things. Are you alright?
I am sorry but that is a skill issue, at least in 99% of cases. 3 mins for all gens means you were pretty much afk for the entire match, especially now with the gen times being increased to 90 seconds. It also shouldn't take you that long to down a survivor. If it takes you like 1 and a half or 2 minutes to do so, than you deserve to be in a bad spot.
Not to mention you should also try to spread the pain, and not just chase the first survivor you find, especially if that survivor is outplaying you often. Applying map pressure is not a myth.
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Don't really see the problem with Botany Knowledge honestly. Medkits are already ridiculously strong, and the 50% increased healing will still make this perk worth running. I guess they could have just left the perk where it is now before the patch, with the 33% healing speed and medkit efficiancy increase.
The downside to Calm Spirit is baffling though, those effects do not warrant a speed reduction in cleansing/blessing and opening chests.
I still think the biggest problem with this new patch for solo queue survivor, or even survivor in general, is the lack of proper baseline nerfs to camping and tunneling, with camping even being buffed. That's worse than any perk nerf, even if some, like the nerf to Self Care and DS, are definitely bad.
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Killers are getting a bunch of baseline buffs already with this upcoming patch. And they surely will be more impactful than the nerfs to certain killer meta perks.
But that alone won't do the trick. You also have to nerf camping and tunneling, preferably to the ground. If killers will need further buffs to compensate for this, then the devs should do that as well. But camping and tunneling will also need to be nerfed a lot, so they aren't nearly as effective strategies as they currently are.
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@Nikatara69 said:
Why, why is necesery every single surv on hook and tunnel?? ######### is wrong with you, people?? Did someone hurt you in real life that you spread your trash all over the people in game??? I haven't playing DBD for 2 months and guess what??? Nothing changed, killers keep camping and been on Red ranks, campers on Red ranks. My every single match is facing strong tunnelers or just team who die in first minutes. I see more clear that this game is broken and nothing can change that. Killers camping, survs DC or suicide on hooks, pretty good job so far... Shame and facepalm
You're not going to find an overwhelming amount of people agreeing with you here. While this forum does have it's fair share of mains of both sides, it is generally tilted a bit more towards killer. Honestly, at this point, I feel like some people here are just scared they will lose their easy, skillless way to win when the devs finally wake up and understand how unhealthy camping and tunneling is.
The truth is always somewhere in between though. Because it is true that sometimes, killers simply have no chance at all to win against a really good survivor team if they don't tunnel and camp. Killers like Myers or Trapper have this problem on almost every map. And on maps like Eyrie of Crow, it's generally quite impossible to win without tunneling and camping.
But it is also often quite exaggerated how bad it actually is. If you are good enough with killer, you won't have many matches that are impossible to win without camping and tunneling. They definitely do exist, but I feel like most peopl exaggerate the frequency of these matches. The truth is that it's not uncommon for people to not accept their mistakes, or when they simply have been outplayed. Some people have a hard time admitting such things, but when playing the killer, the only other thing left to blame is the game. They don't have teammates to blame.
The actual fix to this mess is to buff killers in ways that make their fair and skillful gameplay more viable and strong, giving killers almost always a chance to win. And then nerfing camping and tunneling as much as possible until they become very bad strategies. The devs are even doing this partially with the upcoming 6.1.0 update, giving killers a nice amount of buffs that will make their proper gameplay more viable. Whether it's enough or not is too early to tell. But the problem is that the devs stopped halfway towards their destination, and decided to give survivors nothing more than 5 laughable seconds of Endurance and Haste after being unhooked. Hell, camping is even getting buffed indirectly.
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@Risky_Biscuit said:
Hook grabs are there to punish unsafe hook saves. Why should the unhooker be rewarded for unhooking their teammate in the killer's face ? If you make a mistake, you should be punished for being careless. Simple as that.
You want to punish the killer for doing their job by shutting off their power near hooked survivors ? No. They earned their hook. Deal with it. Go do gens. If a killer is gonna sit there and camp one person, they've already lost. Literally gen rush them and leave. Yes, the hooked person has to take an L for the team, but the killer only gets that single kill all game if you rush gens. That's the countermeasure for camping.
Camping is generally a losing strategy. A viable one, but a losing one. I actively don't camp hooks because of losing more games that way than any other way. You camp a hook, gens fly, and then after they're done, they still unhook the last survivor and get 4 escapes. It rarely works out for the killer.
Dude that's just 100% not true. If you are semi-competent at killer, you can punish a hook rushing survivor simply by hitting them with your M1. They should go down after the unhook, especially now that the M1 recovery has been lowered slightly.
Hook grabbing requires the killer to be right in front of the hook, so in most cases, all it really does is allow for more effective camping. That's what it actually does. Only very rarely is it ever used effectively to punish a survivor rushing a hook.
Also, that "just do gens" comment is so perfect at illustrating how problematic the upcoming patch will be if nothing is done about camping. Because now, that strategy is going to take 10 seconds longer for each gen. And yes, camping is already a viable strategy, especially when using NOED and Deadlock. That combined with tunneling is one of the strongest strategies in the game, if not the strongest for killers. You just shouldn't suck at getting your first down.
Hook Grabs need to go, and the hook phase duration needs to be increase considerably, from 60 seconds to something like 75 or 80 seconds. Or the devs can just do nothing, but in that case I am convinced that these forums will be flooded with killer mains crying over their 20+ minutes queue times.
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I think medkits are still one of the game's biggest balance problems that still need to be addressed, as they save too much time healing. So I can't say I am unhappy about the efficiency removed, but at the same time, the healing speed increase isn't really much better.
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@versacefeng said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3041706#Comment_3041706
Not in all cases.
Connection can screw you over in such cases, but that's not something that can be fully fixed.
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No I think it's definitely a problem. Thana should not be getting buffed with gen times already increaisng. If anything, it should be nerfed.
This update will also illustrate more than ever that there needs to be some kind of cap to stacking speed buffs and debuffs. For debuffs, I would suggest 30%. Decreasing healing or repairing beyond that is just very extreme.
And for buffs, it should be at the highest 100%. This would also solve the problem of Botany Knowledge and other healing perks stacking with medkit healing speeds, which is definitely needed. That way medkits couldn't have their healing increased any further.
The exceptions of course would be effects that have values higher than the caps, but those effects should then also not stack with any other buffs or debuffs.
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@shalo said:
And here's the thanks you'll get in game.
Yup because these survivor players are all the exact same. Makes sense.
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@Seanzu said:
I guess all the survivors are quitting the game /s
I really wouldn't be surprised if some survivor players have actually already stopped playing the game due to survivors getting so little baseline buffs against camping and tunneling in the upcoming update. Not to mention the update actually buffing camping.
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@PNgamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3039977#Comment_3039977
Unfortunately, in my 7500 hours, I have never come across a SWF group that plays normally. Either the killers get annoyed or when you beat them it gets toxic in chat. One negative experience
How do you know that? The game doesn't tell you whether survivors were in an swf or not.
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@Ksekwlothreftis said:
Yeah it makes sense that the killers you can bully the most are on the top of your tier list and since u play in a swf it makes it crystal clear. But why artist at the bottom? u can bully her aswell
In what universe can you bully a killer like Pyramid Head or Oni?
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No it won't. Insanely fast teleport and very low teleport cooldown will always make it very powerful on its own.
Not to mention that it can disorientate a bit, and make it harder for survivors to know where to run next when leaving a loop, so they don't end up in a palletless deadzone. The darkness effect does have a bit of impact.
Dredge does NOT need stealth on top of his fantastic map pressure and decent anti-loop. The sound he makes and his visibility range is fine, especially now that it's been decreased to 20 meters in the latest hotfix.
Dredge seems to be one of the most balanced and fair killers in the game for me, I hope they keep it that way.
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That's the biggest problem with the upcoming patch. It actually just buffs camping. Instead it should be nerfed, and noticeably so.
I can only pray that when the patch goes live, they also increase the hook phase duration of survivors from 60 to 80 seconds. That would actually nerf camping properly. And if not by then, then hopefully shortly after with a hotfix. I still want to play survivor without having to fear that a killer can just resort to a cheap tactic and be almost guaranteed a win with no effort, and I also still want to play killer without long queue times.
I feel like the killer queue times have already increased slightly since a few days.
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I like how we are getting the meta shaken up, I just don't like some of the meta perks, especially on the survivor side, being overnerfed.
There is no reason to nerf the stun duration of DS to 3 seconds, 5 seconds is perfectly fine. Self Care will also be so beyond bad, again just nerfed like crazy just because it was used a lot.
I want as many viable options as possible, not current viable options switched with new viable options. Though of course that's still better than no meta change at all.
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What? This new upcoming patch is all about shaking up the meta, which so many people wanted. It's been years with the same meta perks used at high level games constantly.
I do think some of the perks are getting overnerfed, but it's certainly good that every one of these perks are getting a nerf, especially Dead Hard.
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I am not going argue that Freddy is perfectly viable. After all his nerfs, he could maybe use a few small buffs.
But I am going to say, whoever is playing freddy in that video is not playing him right, at all. All this Freddy really is doing is spamming his traps like a mad man, and keeps going around the loops the same way, without even trying to properly lead survivors into the traps, hindering the survivors on reaching the pallet before he can get a hit against them.
Not to mention the Freddy here even missed at least one opportunity to down the survivor because he was too busy spamming his traps everywhere.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
Change 2 is way too much, I think 65-70 seconds per Hook Stage would be enough.
Other than that, I think the amount of progress lost upon kicking a Generator should be 5%. 2.5% is too little
No, 65-70 seconds won't cut it. As I explained in my post, that would just make camping similarly effetcive as it is now. At least it wouldn't be buffed anymore, but it also wouldn't be nerfed.
And it absolutely needs to be nerfed. Now that killers are getting some very nice buffs, survivors should finally get camping and tunneling nerfed. It's extremely important.
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@GoshJosh said:
Just remember that a conspicuous action will disable OTR. You really think they’re going to stand around all day to tank a hit with it, while being unable to repair gens or do anything else to progress the game? It’s way more appealing to be healed up and continue doing gens. It will punish tunneling while not allowing the survivor to complete any objectives, which is a good thing.
The only adjustment I think it needs is disablement in the end game. At least the endurance aspect.
Why though? I think it's not bad for survivors to have some better chances with certain perks to escape. A killer has a fair chance of getting a 4K, survivors should have a fair chance of getting a 4-man escape.
The only change Off the Record needs is also deactivating when getting fully healed, otherwise it could be used for bodyblocking too effectively.
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@WitchWalpurga said:
Honestly, I wanted to write something about that today, after I really had a completely insane situation. First of all, I am definitely not a pro and probably somewhere in the middle or lower MMR. This morning I played about 10 rounds, I was found relatively often first, looped the killer for 1-2 generators and of those 10 rounds I ended up hooked and facecamped 6x. I lost one round due to Noed, which is okay but still took quite little skill. I don't know why but since a few weeks this happens more and more. The killer tunnels someone out of the game at 0 or 1 generators already, which is then as good as unwinnable, or the first player on the hook gets camped. All in all, the number of "unfun" situations in my games increases extremely and my desire to play goes down accordingly. Especially since the SBMM system makes the whole thing even worse. Teammates kill themselves or disconnect when they are camped, reducing the probability for the rest to escape to almost 0. Not escaping = less MMR = worse teammates = more dcs/suicides.
I think the proposed changes from the user above me are all good. I don't understand the DS nerf either, because that's the only perk that is remotely likely to prevent an "unfun" situation, and especially with a tunneling Nurse, even 5 seconds (effectively 4, since you fall off the shoulder first) is hardly time for significant distance.
To make camping unattractive, like other users on the forum, I would suggest that the other survivors get a drastic boost to generator repair, after a cooldown of course, to allow the killer to get off the hook. To this of course, not even if the killer is in a chase near the hook. Also, the generators that have already been repaired would have to be taken into account, as camping can be quite understandable or necessary in the later game. But camping should not be a strategy in the early game that effectively makes it impossible for at least one participant to take part in the round.
I would rather have the hook bleed out speed decreased a lot whenever the killer is near the hooked survivor. But I guess increasing gen repair speed would also work.
But that seems like it will be to complex of a mechanic to still implement quickly. Simply increasing the hook phase duration to 80 seconds or so should be much easier and quicker to do. So I hope that's what BHVR is going for.
And yes, camping and tunneling are beyond unfun to go against, and are definitely demotivating for survivor players. These strategies have to be addressed no doubt, especially now that killers are getting buffs.
The fact that some people are against this just blows my mind, and indicates that they probably only play killer at all.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
No thank you. How about you see how the basekit BT+haste effect works out before you suggest huge, sweeping survivor buffs? It's gonna be way more effective than you think. And they didn't increase hook stages cuz regression perks were nerfed. You can't have both.
I mean I am definitely curious to see how effective the basekit BT will be, but yeah, most people seem to agree that 5 seconds won't be enough, and I don't think that's a crazy theory, seeing as we already have a 12 second BT in the game right now which we can compare to. Killers will often just be able to wait those 5 seconds out. In the end, it will maybe help out the extremely experienced survivor teams, but for most teams, 5 seconds won't be nearly enough.
Also, some slowdown perks were nerfed, but that is still not as impactful as the extra 10 seconds on every gen. Not to mention Deadlock, which is the best camping slowdown perk, isn't getting a nerf. So camping has been buffed clearly. There is absolutely no way around increasing the hook phase timer. Killers are getting their frustrations addressed, so survivors should get tunneling and camping addressed as well.
I honestly don't know what to tell you if you actually think that only one side should be getting good changes. Camping needs to be finally nerfed, not buffed, and also not kept the same, it needs to be nerfed, now that killers normal gameplay is getting buffed. There is no good reason for the devs not do that, and I hope they realise this fast enough, or we'll most likely have a large drop in survivor players, with killer queue times sky rocketing.
And I don't want to have to wait in 20 minute queue times either just to play killer.
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This upcoming update surely has some serious issues, but I do find it interesting how much people can exaggarate things as well.
The devs definitely also care about solo survivors, people that jump to the conclusion they don't care after some changes are announced that aren't good for them need to grow up.
Some of the perk changes are very bad for the game. Self Care, Spine Chill and DS nerf are horrific. The Overcharge and Eruption buffs are too much, and Thana definitely doesn't need a buff either.
The big problem is the lack of proper anti-tunneling and camping measures, now that killers are getting some great basekit buffs.
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I certainly haven't given up hope yet that these changes will come into DBD. But yeah, I wish they would have touched on that during the anniversary stream, and it is concerning that they didn't.
They mention in their post that it's just an idea, and that there hasn't been any form of implementation yet. And seeing how massive the upcomng patch is, they probably haven't had time yet. So I am at least hopeful that it will still make it into the game in the future, it is very much a needed feature.
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@Raccoon said:
Previous Gen Speed = 80s
Hook Timer = 60s
Ratio - 75%
At the VERY least, they should make it ~68 seconds as 90 * 0.75 = 67.5
It definitely should be more. Camping should be nerfed, not buffed or kept the same it is now. Killers are getting great buffs to help them deal with their frustrations, survivors should get the same.
A hook timer of 80 seconds would be great. Perhaps even 90.
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Yeah killers are getting a lot of buffs to incentivise them to not camp and tunnel already.
Now what the game needs is to decentivise camping and tunneling by properly nerfing those strategies. Pain Resonance alone won't do anything in that regard.
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Map balance is still something I hope they continue to look at, but of course these killer buffs will help killers, everyone of them. Especially the extra 10 seconds that gens will take to be repaired.
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@Mazoobi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3022663#Comment_3022663
True.
I'm currently enjoying running defensive plague builds so seeing thanatophobia getting buffed was a bit shocking considering as you said, is getting indirectly buffed with the increased gen times. I'm not 100% sure if Overcharge and Call of Brine can stack but if they can as many forum users have said, then that'll be insane.
It appears that the devs are trying to give the lesser-used gen perks some heavy attention.
Something that I don't understand is why they seemed to have given so much attention to lesser used slowdown perks though. I kind of wish they would have buffed more of the other perks.
I can only pray to god that Overcharge and Call of Brine do not stack, that would be so, so bad. It would literally make certain matches unwinnable for survivors in a 3 gen sccenario. I remember the problem of Doc being able to hold the game pretty much hostage in certain 3 gen scenarios, this would make that come back.
And honestly, on top of that, the Overcharge buff is too much, it shoudl go up to 300%, if anything. The fact that it also hurts newer players more than experienced players makes me wish they would have buffed a different perk instead as well. It makes no sense to nerf meta slowdown perks, just for them to buff Overcharge and Eruption to their level. Those perks can not get to the live game with those values. Same for Thana. The other slowdown perk buffs are fine I would argue.
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So I can see why they aren't adding another objective. There are two big challenges I see with this. On the one hand, it's the huge amount of maps, and trying to figure out a way to fit in a second objective in all those maps would probably take tons of work. The second is finding another objective that does not favor swf compared to solos in any way. I have seen the idea where survivors have to look for geneator parts before they can start working on a gen, but with solo survivors, you'll just have people running for the same part, solo survivors will waste more time than swf survivors with that I fear.
I think having a second objective that does the same thing as increasing the gen times to 90 seconds would have been more preferably, but I also think 90 seconds shouldn't be too bad. And I can understand why they went with that approach seeing all the other changes they've been working on.
The other killer buffs are all great, I agree. I guess it's true that they should maybe take a look at some anti-loop killers. Nurse and Blight will obviously looking at, but the other two non S-tier killers that pop in my mind are Artist and Pyramid Head. Though that should only happen once we get to play with these changes. Even Artist does have the potential to be looped, albeit simply at loops that break line of sight. Killers that have very well balanced chase abilities are probably Demogorgon, Huntress and Dredge for example. They are strong, some more than others, but allow for enough counterplay as well. I know some don't like going against Nemesis, but his anti-loop I also think is very well designed.
The baseline buffs against camping and tunneling are very disappointing though, there is no way around it. I hope they increase the duration of the endurance and haste status effect to at least 10 seconds, but hopefully it's going to be 12 seconds. BT already does that in the current build, as it stands now, survivors will still be forced to run either BT or Off the Record.
Camping also needs to be nerfed real bad. I think hook phase duration being increased from 60 to 80 seconds would do the trick here. Perhaps even 90 seconds, though that might be a bit much I have to admit. Another important nerf to camping is the removal of hook grabs.
In general, I am quite happy with how many perk changes we are getting. BHVR obviously put a lot of work into this patch, and it's appreciated. Having the meta finally shaken up is a good thing. But I also am not that happy with some of the perk changes. The nerfs to DS, Self Care, Iron Will and Spine Chill are way overboard. I especially dislike the stun duration decrease on DS, that should NOT be a thing. The only nerf I would have given DS honestly is to have it deactivate when a survivor hops in a locker. I guess it decativating during end game would be fine if survivors had a proper baseline BT effect.
A few perk buffs could also be problematic. Off the Record will probably also need to deactivate after being healed fully, or it could be used to bodyblock too effectively. Thana buff is incredibly unnecessary, and Overcharge is buffed too much, especially since the skill check part of the perk hurts newer players more than experienced players. The max regression should probably be 300%, and the skillcheck should be swapped with something different. Or, instead of lowering the regression, the aura of a gen kicked with Overcharge could be shown, so it doesn't hurt solo survivors more than swf.
Sadly, Eruption has the same problem, Otz explained this in his video. Swf survivors can call out when they are about to go down, solo survivors can't. They should buff the regression to 12%, but keep the incapacitated status effect duration at 12/14/16 seconds.
If BHVR listens to community feedback, and makes some more changes, especially towards camping and tunneling, then this could be the best patch DBD has ever gotten. But at the moment, it's just halfway there.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3021721#Comment_3021721
Okay. Sure. You give survivors an extra thirty seconds on the hook. Half a minute. That gets rid of almost all pressure on survivors to actually rescue the person on the hook. They don't have to worry about it. I hook someone, leave, find someone else and the remaining two survivors get an extra half a minute to bang out gens before they even have to think about getting a rescue. Can you imagine how that would feel on a killer with poor chase potential? Literally just think about it for a few minutes. In my games survivors stay glued on gens until the last possible second to rescue. This is behavior that should be punished and often is, cuz I'll just go back to the hook and ensure the second hook state. That's part of my agency as the killer, it's how I keep the game from getting out of hand. You want to remove that decision almost entirely. It's absurd and untenable.
Survivors leave the game boo hoo. Who cares? I like survivor better anyway. It's fun and stress free. Literally the only reason I play killer is because survivors queues are ridiculous. Please, leave. Free up some room in the queue.
Survivor queues surely aren't ridiculous for me.
No, survivors will still feel pressure to unhooking other survivors, because survivors never want to end up in a scenario where two survivors are hooked at the same time. A survivor on the hook is doing nothing to progress the objective, so it's almost always better to unhook them. I don't think 90 seconds would take away a lot of pressure from survivors at all.
It will however nerf camping properly, which needs to happen. I guess the other option would be to have the hook progression speed be decreased by 50% as long as the killer is within 24 meters of the survivor. That way, if the killers leaves the hooked survivor, their hook phase duration will still be the normal 60 seconds long, but if a killer camps, it would be 120 seconds.
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@Mazoobi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3021789#Comment_3021789
Partially. I don't think these buffs alone would stop people from running their new sweaty builds or playing sweaty in general, but I can see what you're saying.
I 100% agree with the meta shift though. It was what the game needed for so long.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3021602#Comment_3021602
Seeing self-care nerfed like that really made me question BHVR's logic. It did not deserve that nerf at all.
I wouldn't be surprised if OTR gets nerfed or heavily tweaked near the release.
Well I would argue that it's BHVR's job to not allow for any builds that can still be very oppressive and sweaty. That's why I am also not happy with the overbuff to Overcharge and Eruption, especially the former, because that perk is harsher on newer players already. I also don't like Thana getting buffed either, it is already being buffed indirectly because of the gen time increase.
These substantial killers buff should allow the devs to make sure that they don't need and should not create perks for killers that are overly strong. Which they kind of doing with the meta perk nerfs, but then they go and overbuff perks like Overcharge, which I personally don't understand.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3021706#Comment_3021706
I'm actually okay with most all those survivors buffs you want as they promote healthier game play and I want tunneling/camping gone as well.
My only issue is that if we did give those changes killer would still need significant buffs.
To illustrate what I mean. You could have the killer stacking 4 gen slow down perks with all the survivors running zero perks and no voice coms and I still think it's survivor sided. You probably don't agree with this but that's why I see killers as needing significantly more buffs if we were to do the changes you want and why.
I mean, I guess we just really won't come to an agreement on that, which is fine. I do think the buffs that killers are getting are enough to warrant the camping and tunneling nerfs that I am suggesting, because I do believe those buffs will be pretty significant. Killers will surely feel noticeably stronger.
I think it would be the first, big step in the right direction. And from there on, the next big step qould be to buff solo survivors a bit more to swf survivors level, and give killers another adequate buff as well. Hell, camping and tunneling nerfed would already be a buff to solo queues, because it's arguably the strategy they struggle the most with compared to swf survivors.
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With the upcoming changes, that wouldn't even be enough. They also 100% have to increase the time a survivor can survive on the hook, and by a noticeable amount.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3017345#Comment_3017345
This isn't a mystery game.
Your comment is bias, this is not a step in the right direction, unless you want more free kills, then yes.
I would argue this patch is a step in the right direction when looking at creating a good fundament for the game. The killer buffs are definitely great and will encourage killers to play properly and fair, now that that gameplay style is more viable. That's 100% a step in the right direction.
Having the meta shaken up a bit is also definitely good, it's something the game has needed in a long time. Some nerfs or buffs are too much, but hopefully BHVR will address the issue, if not immediately, then at least soon after.
The problem is that the devs just seem to have stopped after getting halfway to where they should get, and then decided not to give survivors adequate compensation by buffing them against camping and tunneling properly. Camping being buffed would be absolutely horrendous.
Some of the meta perk nerfs are also awful. The Self Care change is just so bad, all they should have done is remove the item efficiency and call it a day.
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@IronKnight55 said:
I feel like a lot of people will quit if these changes make it to live (myself included). Solo won't be playable. I'm honestly still shocked they even thought these changes (most, not all) were okay.
Are you also talking about the killer buffs? Because I would argue all of those except for the bloodlust buff are good. The problem is survivors aren't getting even nearly enough against camping and tunneling as compensation. That's what I don't understand.