Xendritch
Xendritch
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3367166#Comment_3367166
There is a different between
- survivors have no chance of winning and end game is 5min
- survivors have no chance of winning and end game is 45min
That 5min game is what make a killer S tier.
Killers have no fun when 2 survivors dont do Gen. Its weird that when there are 4 survivors dont do Gen, its more fun.
I'm not sure I get this logic. If we make an analogy to card games for example if there's a control deck that always take a very long time to finish the opponent but has a high win percentage it would be considered tier 1 nobody would go "well it only ever wins after turn 8 so it's bad" because by that logic aggro decks would be the only tier 1 decks.
I'm not suggesting SM is S tier because I heavily doubt she is but suggesting a killer can't be considered strong because they usually don't win before some arbitrarily decided time limit doesn't make much sense to me.
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Fanservice is when there's bed.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3367668#Comment_3367668
She’s not chasing anyone. She’s guarding a 3-Gen. She doesn’t need chase potential really because she’s very effective at protecting a 3-Gen. And the drones going away after 10 seconds or whatever doesn’t really matter.
Certain add-ons like geographical readout, loose screw, random strobes, advanced movement prediction, prototype rotor, and ultrasonic trap speaker all encourage chases you can absolutely make a chase build if you build around those add-ons.
Getting rid of a single drone doesn't matter but if you get rid of more than one you get one back after 10 seconds and then have to wait another 10 seconds for the next one it requires coordination to beat it.
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No those changes were needed for her to actually feel good to play it was so clunky before being where you wanted to place a drone but needed to wait for it to get off cooldown. SM was always strong at 3 gens even on ptb and decoupling the cooldown from placing drones didn't make that that much stronger it mostly just made the setting up in the beginning of the game feel better and it improved her chase placing her drones from loop to loop. But in terms of midgame and 3 gening no it didn't really do anything because it takes 10 seconds to get the drone back anyway if they disarm it so you have to wait to replace the drone even now.
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This thread makes me happy the community has no real input in terms of balances changes because holy hell that would be awful. SM basically wouldn't have a power if they didn't work while you were on gens and shotgun speakers and adi valente #1 basically wouldn't do anything as add-ons.
I've watched TTVs against my SM and they literally are too scared to run through drone areas and just stand around waiting for them to go inactive if that's how everyone is playing against SM ofc she seems too strong. Running into active drone areas are not scary run in and deactivate the drones as soon as you find them and if everyone is doing that SM shouldn't really be able to keep up her gen pressure buying you time to break the 3 gen while she's waiting to get her drones back.
The problem is the current meta which is very favorable to SM and teams don't really understand how to play against her yet. I've said it's like cenobite in terms of cooperation but having thought about it more it's more like plague. With plague everyone needs to be on the same page either everyone cleanses and overloads her fountains or nobody cleanses meaning she never gets red vom. Now just never doing drones isn't really an option because that's too risky but when someone is disarming a drone everyone needs to disarm all the drones so it's gonna take SM close to 45 seconds if she wants to setup again so if you do this 2 or 3 times you should be able to break the 3 gen and after you do that she's mostly harmless after that depending on her add-ons.
SM really isn't too strong by any means I think she's stronger than a lot of people say but she's pretty average in my estimation with extreme strengths and weaknesses. I think people are struggling with her because she's more puzzle like than most other killers. You don't beat her by looping you beat her by solving her drone network and breaking the 3 gen before doing other gens because she's much easier to beat after you do that. This is something very different than most players are used to so it's gonna take a lto fo time to get used to.
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They're not infinite you have 4 and if one gets deactivated it takes 10 seconds to get it back, survivors need to deactivate them at roughly the same time and it severely puts a dent in her map pressure because it will take a while for her to get them all back and setup again.
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Considering the outfit is supposed to come from a manga, if you've ever seen one it's pretty par for the course.
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@calem said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3366637#Comment_3366637
You've clearly not read anything else I've said in the replies. TL;DR other killers have gameplay + lore, while SM exists solely to be sexy. I am NOT against sexual characters. I am also not even focusing on the cosmetics, it's the entire chapter. Her skin was just the thing that made realise sexualisation was BHVR's focus this entire time, and not a good story + power. This whole release is just sad. You have provided nothing to the discussion.
Tbf the entire discussion is pretty subjective when you consider that the entire premise relies on suggesting nobody likes playing the killer for thier power which is just objectively false.
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In some ways this is the scariest chapter BHVR has ever made because it contains the thing a lot of players fear most, an attractive woman.
At least you'd think that from the reaction to it lmao.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3366296#Comment_3366296
Why nerf her though? She needs buffs if anything.
I don't think she does tbh? Buffs I mean, she's way more solid than people give her credit for she just plays very differently than a lot of other killers that I think it takes time for people to get used to her if they do wanna play her. I don't really think she needs nerfs either but I can understand why breaking her grid can be frustrating especially in soloQ. She's a little like Cenobite in that regard in that SM is a killer that does very well in SoloQ but then suffers a lot from well done coordination.
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They could increase the time it takes for you to get the disarmed drone back in your pool. Currently it's 10 seconds maybe they could increase it to 20 or 25 seconds that way if you coordinate well disarming the drones would have more of an impact.
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Except you couldn't? I can't tell you the number of times I would shred a survivor with demo and they would scream but not be downed because they had i-frames because of DH like old DH had distance AND invincibility now it's just invincibility and you get the distance if you use it correctly. Bringing back old DH would be an absolutely terrible idea, it was changed for a reason.
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Still exploring a ton of builds but currently really loving pallet break merchant.
Expired Batteries/Ultrasonic Claw Trap
Bamboozle
Call of Brine
Dissolution
Hex:Blood Favor
You start off with free Lethal Pursuer in the form of Expired Batteries and I've usually been getting 2 hooks and few pallets out of the way before a gen is done. Either they break pallets via claw trap or dissolution or never get the chance to use them via Blood Favor.
Then we have bamboozle for windows and they no longer have anything to slow us down and usually win through early game momentum. If they do try to come back we have Brine to slow them down again, it's a bud that really covers all the bases and I've been loving it.
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Still exploring a ton of builds but currently really loving pallet break merchant.
Expired Batteries/Ultrasonic Claw Trap
Bamboozle
Call of Brine
Dissolution
Hex:Blood Favor
You start off with free Lethal Pursuer in the form of Expired Batteries and I've usually been getting 2 hooks and few pallets out of the way before a gen is done. Either they break pallets via claw trap or dissolution or never get the chance to use them via Blood Favor.
Then we have bamboozle for windows and they no longer have anything to slow us down and usually win through early game momentum. If they do try to come back we have Brine to slow them down again, it's a bud that really covers all the bases and I've been loving it.
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Chapter has hit 11th on steams bestsellers so whatever it is it seems to have worked.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3364785#Comment_3364785
Again, if the perk relies on being paired with other perks to prevent it from being abused, it's already a terrible idea.
"gens go too fast" is an issue of balancing, and perception.
Gens don't go too fast if you prevent them going too fast, and this wouldn't make gens go too fast if you chased the unhooking survivor instead of the unhooked survivor.
Except if you stack it with overzealous and deja vu you're just doing gens 20% faster by yourself without a tool box and still have room for DH.
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@ARTRA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3364746#Comment_3364746
Shhhhhh, SM is rich, just bring some pringles and smile.
We only accept lays (with the ridges) accompanied by french onion dip.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3364763#Comment_3364763
It's not just griefing from survivors. If the killer perceives the rescuer as a less optimal target, then they will go after the unhooked survivor. This perk was undermining everything that BT, OTR, DS, etc. is trying to do. Encourage the killer to avoid the unhooked survivor.
You know what a much better alternative would be?
- When you unhook another survivor, you gain a 8% increase to repair speeds for 60 seconds.
Bingo, you now make the unhooker the target instead of the unhooked. You combine this sort of perk, with something like Sprint Burst, to make you a difficult to catch target. If you get chased, you save your friends, if you don't get chased, you smash gens.
Save friends, smash gens.
So your solution for a perk change for it in a game where gens go to fast...is to make them go faster?
Also old background player literally paired with BT. You used that with, BT and guardian and it punished the killer for going back to hook cuz neither target would really be good to go after. Instead we have a perk that legit either just gives the killer free hits when the survivor runs up and fails the flashlight save or literally nothing but free exhaustion for a survivor on a gen.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3364755#Comment_3364755
You actually play DBD, right?
"I wOuLdNt UsE iT tO tUnNel, So WhY wOulD aNyOnE ElSe?"
Lets just give the killer a perk that shows them the aura of a survivor for 30 seconds after being unhooked, so that they can avoid them. Sounds fair right?
I don't see a ton of on purposeful griefing from survivors to each other in my games. Maybe my MMR is too high for that and you see it at lower levels, it's possible I guess.
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Because "iT IncEnTIviZeD tUNnElINg" according to the community. In reality it was an interesting perk made for a specific build but people only see perks being used cynically so like reassurance they got a good perk nerfed. This community has a habit of getting in it's own way sometimes.
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Yeah been loving her so far and I really appreciate the little bit of polish she got for release to the little additions in sound design to them adjusting her mori to have more interesting camera angles. Plus she is far better than she was on PTB, decoupling the drone placement from the cooldown makes them feel soooo much better to play.
It's so nice to have a killer that is so good at keeping gens locked down that I can run a full chase build and still felt like I could keep gens from flying. Playing on Springwood didn't feel like a chore for once and I actually enjoyed playing on that map for the first time in forever. Red Forest is still tough but it is for every killer that doesn't go zoom so that's to be expected, I'm actually curious what my first game on cowshed is going to be like.
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Nope on that long quest to p100 Merchant. I was slightly worried live would be much harder than PTB since I would be running into DH way more but honestly it's been fine as I still haven't lost a game but that's probably at least partly because MMR on SKull Merchant isn't where it should be yet.
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No it's supposed to work that way, makes her stronger on indoor maps.
I got adept on my second try (woulda been first try but a feng had unbreakable and got door, was very unlucky) and I'm gonna be honest her perks don't synergize well with each other for the most part so I wouldn't rely on them for anything. I would recommend geographical readout which does slightly synergize with THWACK! and Game Afoot and Brown Noise Generator for sneaky hits and then just 3 gen as best you can.
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Basekit not really besides putting a drone on a dropped item with Franklin's and maybe Hex: Face the Darkness and maybe you got lucky and they scream while trying to disarm a drone for a free lock-on but with addons there's a lot more yes.
Geographical Readout stacks with Bamboozle, Brutal and the like.
Overcharge pairs will with Shotgun Speakers.
Lethal with Advanced Movement Prediction.
Dissolution for some redundancy with Ultrasonic Trap Speaker.
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It needed a buff and they did that to it lmao.
Absolutely unreal.
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Been having a lot of fun with her the changes actually feel pretty good especially the no cooldown on throwing drones out and seeing the timer on lock-on. I've been able to get way more exposed hits than I was on PTB.
Games with her do take forever though if you want them to I have no idea how you ever break a 3 gen against this killer.
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I like skull merchant but I understand I'm different than most people in what I enjoy.
-I enjoy the 4v1 more than the 1v1
-I like have a ton of abilities to juggle or a resource to manage
-I like having an area of the map completely locked down
-I like having a power I can use in a bunch of different ways through transformative add-ons
So Skull Merchant isn't the strongest yeah but they tick all those boxes for me mostly for what is fun in this game for me so I'll still main them over Nurse or Blight both of which are objectively more powerful but a snoozefest to me gameplaywise.
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Luck only works when you are in a 4 man and all bring up the ante and slippery meat and that gives everyone better deliverance.
It's actually a somewhat legit strategy if you have the people but other than that luck is terrible.
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Dead Hard stole my bank account and job. I tried to bait it out but that just made it take a mortgage out on my house. :(
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First Dredge now Knight, this forum really has it out for low B tier killers for some reason.
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&
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I'm not sure if talking about something that's one of the only three things that ever get talked on here counts as bringing light to something or just bringing a flashlight to something that is already illuminated by the sun.
I also don't know how comparing two games in two completely different genres is a good argument. I could say the mechanic exists in Street Fighter 3 it's called a parry but that doesn't mean DBD is a fighting game only that the mechanic isn't new to games.
You can only talk about DH in the context it exists in and in that context it's relatively balanced just not fun to deal with. I don't see people complain about Unbreakable because of that one perk slugging is always risky and changes how you play the game.
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Because having a bunch of abilities doesn't mean match when none of them are especially powerful.
-Good survivors literally don't care about darkness it's just a mild annoyance.
-The teleport loses a ton of impact when you're spending half the game breaking out of locked lockers.
-Their antiloop is decent but holding W isn't that hard and it's a 12 second cooldown.
Dredge is very decent but they can't do anything that crazy in terms of lethality and calling for a nerf for a killer that nobody plays is very odd.
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361263#Comment_3361263
The benefit of Hags traps is that you basically cannot see them unless you're on a map where they contrast against the ground, SM's drones can be seen from across the map by a blindfolded infant with glaucoma, making them hilariously easy to ignore, and thus making her horrendously bad stealth even less usable then it already is
And if SM is meant to be fine because "you can bring addons", need I remind you that Wraith and Sadako were universally panned as some of the worst killers in the entire game due to their basekit sucking? Wraith's basekit is fine now but Sadako's only viable strategy is with a pair of obnoxious addons, Killers need to be good without addons, they are not meant to be these keys to viability, they're meant to either be small buffs or offer up a alternative playstyle, not make up for the basekit being awful.
and even if those two problems were solved, that doesn't change the fact that the ideas behind SM could have led to something far more interesting then "Drones that stop people from going here safety", BHVR has done more with far less interesting ideas, fumbling the ball with SM this hard is inexcusable
Except besides 3 genning if you put them in choke points and high traffic areas they have to go through there and if they don't then you know where not to waste your time looking and it can still get you the first hit if they don't know what direction you're coming from.
As far as Sadako goes as much as everyone says she's bad she's consistently near the top of the kill rates so how much help does she really need? I don't think they're all bringing iri tape so obviously she's a bit better than people give her credit for. Iri tape just gives her another playstyle just as wraith and SM have add-ons that dictate their playstyle and literally who said add-ons arn't meant to be part of a killer? You literally just made that up. Most of the reason people think Billy is dead is because they massacred his add-ons his baskit wasn't really changed that much besides overheat which doesn't come up that much.
SM could use some improvements for sure but there's plenty of things that are appealing to some people. I don't think SM is a fumble she's just a niche killer like Twins, Hag and Artist. Honestly I feel like if the community had their way they just would have copy and pasted deathwire form VHS, not exactly the pinnacle of creativity.
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The answer really is "it depends" because of her wide arrangement of add-ons. If you wanna 3 gen you have shotgun speakers and adi valente comic or brown noise generator with basically anything.
If you want to chase you have geographical readout, strobes, prototype rotor, loose screw, advanced movement prediction, ultrasonic trap speaker to give you miscellaneous advantages in chase.
Baskekit she leans more into the area control and camping playstyle but the chase add-ons are very transformative if you build around them so it's kind of up to you what add-ons you like best and find a playstyle based on that.
Definitely not the type of killer you can throw anything on, you really have to think about your build and have a goal in mind. Some people don't like add-on reliant killers but I think it gives them a lot of replayability value since you can play completely differently based on what you feel like.
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@versacefeng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361183#Comment_3361183
Blight is fine the way he is.
From a gameplay perspective sure but lorewise pustula serum just being supernatural liquid crack was kind of disappointing.
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361056#Comment_3361056
SM’s Teaser being vague is fine, but there is a distinct difference between being vague and having so little to indicate who or what the killer could be that it could be literally anything, the only thing straightforward about the teaser was “skulls play a part in this” and that is it, I will reiterate, SM could have been a Warhammer character with how open-ended this teaser is m, her shadow or laugh being included would have been enough, but instead we got exactly nothing concrete
as for her power, the comparisons to Knight are wholly justified when that is entirely what her power boils down to, people call her a 3-gen killer because that is what she is best at, other killers can 3-gen but they always have something else besides that, she also does not play like Hag at all, with Hag you set up a web of traps, teleport to them, replace the trap and go from there, with SM you throw down a drone and that is it, the drones do not do nearly enough to be useful for anything other then throwing them down at a loop to scare people away
I do not care about what kind of defence people will come up for this absolutely garbage execution of a area control killer, SM is awful and lazily made in every ######### aspect, her lore is a mess, her visual design is a mess, and her power is ineffectual for anything other then the two most boring strategies in the entire game
Again the teaser was nothing out of the ordinary compared to what BHVR usually releases in terms of teasers. Hell the Pinhead teasers were so vague half the community thought it was FNAF until the very end. SM's teaser actually gave us more than usual because the skull clearly had a eye or sensor in its mouth so some sort of trap you were able to place was obvious.
And no not really anything like knight, knight you can actually chase with his power where as that's not really true with SM unless you bring geographical readout or maybe prototype rotor. The comparison of "they both 3 gen" is so insanely weak and I don't even think it's true every killer has something besides that. Unless you get basement it doesn't make sense to do anything on Trapper besides 3 gen that's why they all bring corrupt so they have time to set that up. And yes SM is like Hag you can set all of them down in an area you wanna control and give yourself the ability to keep your stealth in a large area much like creating a web with Hag you're creating alone you're much more powerful in. Unless you're bringing specific add-ons to help you in chase throwing the drones down in loops is kinda pointless besides maybe keeping one drone if they go shack or something. Now that doesn't necessarily mean 3 gen you can throw the drone network down in the middle of the map or try to create a perimeter somewhere and I've had that be okayish as well depending on the map.
But I have a feeling people are going to default to "I use power in loop" and not bring the right add-ons for it and get really frustrated when that doesn't do anything.
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Probably what Blight should have been.
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People mad at the teaser either just don't understand BHVR's history with teasers or just decided the teaser meant things it didn't which is literally your own fault if you did that.
Spirit's teaser is literally her getting murdered by her father making it seem like the killer will be him and we were getting some type of samurai.
Slinger's teaser made him look a lot like Pinhead.
Twins Teaser is just victor's arm and screaming which a ton of people thought was wendigo or until dawn chapter.
Trickster's teaser is just a song being played then reversed and then played again giving no indication of anything.
Merchant's teaser was actually a lot more straight forward than some previous teasers tbh just people wanted to do random leaps of logic that spiraled out of control. Literally on the day the teaser came out I said it wasn't a cyborg.
From that thread when the teaser was first posted: "So I don't think it's a cyborg just because if you look at the plans the bottom drawing can be perceived as a body but there are no arms but four legs there as a base, this is important to the killer as you see it again at 0:14 but upside down. Also keep in mind they never just straight up show us the killer in a teaser unless it's a license."
Now in hindsight those weren't legs but a place to hold the rotors and was put upside down in the teaser relative to the skull but if you look at the drones it is that exact skull attached to that main body piece. As for the logo it's probably just the logo for her company it doesn't really have any meaning besides that. I will say it's kinda dirty to make it look so much like the skynet logo but it was obviously not terminator from there being no copyright in the trailer. So has far as the teaser goes nothing in it said cyborg the community just decided that cuz they felt like it.
Her story I'll skip on because there's aspects to it I like and a lot I don't and it's not clear what the focus is supposed to be in terms of theme. I'll skip on the outfit too cuz it's fine but doesn't standout to me although the cosmetic we're supposedly getting is really good and sohlud have been her default.
So going to her power I'll admit it will only appeal to a few people because there's two aspects to it that make her a hard sell.
- She plays somewhat like hag
- She's as add-on reliant as wraith to make her power actually do things
Now this is not a death sentence powerwise as Hag is a good killer and Wraith was good before he got nerfed for absolutely no reason. It is a problem popularitywise because some people have a serious problem with needing add-ons and most people despise Hag's gameplay. But for people that like being able to customize their power and creating "this area of the map is mine and if you go here you die" areas she's very appealing. I've said it multiple times but I think the comparisons to knight are completely bogus, people say 3 gen killer but idk if people realize this but uuhhhh EVERY KILLER CAN 3 GEN. Nobody can is making a good point saying they're good a 3 genning. She's close to Hag and in an abstract way close to Pyramidhead in the sense of shaping the map to her advantage if torment trails were actually scary and worth going out of your way to avoid.
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According to the forums killers haven't had time to do anything for 7 years and despite gens speeds getting nerfed significantly over that time somehow they're faster than ever.
My guess is what's actually happening is you got high enough that sbmm kicked in and games are harder now. I don't think killers need any across the board buffs but I think a lot of the low tier killers need maintenance to bring them up to B tier and a lot of killer perks not related to regression could get gigabuffed so kicking gens is no longer the meta.
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Besides Trapper I kinda think it would be crazy to leave Blight out of the movie. Either as Blight or Talbot Grimes because he's so tied in with the story of the entity and besides maybe vigo came closer to learning the biology of the entity than anyone else.
Story wise Plague has a decent chance of making it in as the Entity's main worshipper I could see her being a pseudo leader for the black vale in the realm.
If we just go by pure popularity Huntress has a good shot at making it in somewhere.
If Clown makes it in it will literally only be for a single scene because they want a cameo of Maurice.
Everyone else I kinda don't think makes it in. I feel like Otto, Doctor and Dredge could be thier own movie so they should probably wait on including them.
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It's not even that good lol. First you need the 3 hooks before you start getting value and the totems need to stay up in the meantime.
Then if the survivors all figure out where the totem is you will then be spending the rest of the game defending the totem instead of gens. So if they wanted to a couple people can keep you around the totem while the others do gens and it's just throwing trying to keep Devour up.
I honestly don't like doing the strat that much because you just wind up hearing killer instinct all game and it gets obnoxious.
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I like it but agree the animation doesn't match the speed so hopefully it gets polished for release.
It's a bit like Nemesis where he looks like he's running at full speed because it's only 115% it kinda looks like he doing it in slow motion.
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Actually considering it's blumhouse they technically could put in Jaime Lee Curtis and Michael if they wanted. That would actually be hype.
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I don't really have anything to add to this other than I feel the exact same way and it's really annoying being followed for heals when I can heal myself in 8 seconds and the other person can just go do a gen.
My best guess is archives but it's way too common for that to always be the reason.
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I'm still waiting on the Nea outfit from the saw tome. Woulda thought we would have it by now.
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@Mooks said:
I think DbD would have translated better into a series than one standalone movie. You can only use a handful of killers in a movie while you could focus on a different killer each episode in a show.
though i do look forward to the movie nonetheless.
They could do a cabin in the woods type deal where we see a bunch of them for 2-3 minutes at the end.
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Due to this collab there's a higher than 0% chance we could get vince vaughn as a survivor or killer in DBD and idk how I feel about that.
As for the news I'll wait and see who the director is, if it's David Bruckner or James Wan I'm hype otherwise I might be a little apprehensive about it.
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People really need to watch old gameplay and remember how outrageous Dead Harding for distance was before making threads like this.
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I don't think it will, Netflix seems pretty committed on going thier own way when it comes to more stranger things related games.
BHVR's relationship with Netflix is basically the complete opposite of the relationship with Konami. Which no offense to BHVR but it blows my mind Konami blew off Kojima only to say yes to giving BHVR the responsibility of continuing silent hill.