WilliamSN
WilliamSN
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540168#Comment_3540168
It's either one or the other depending on the current "meta".
if it is not both, you can use aura perk vs calm spirit users and ultimate weapon vs distortion users.
Ah yes , guess i should look into the future see the endgame screen take note of what counter perk the survivors are running and counter the counter perk before the game starts.
Totally doable , not having premonitions is a skill issue /s
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539629#Comment_3539629
Why i am going to take L just because cheater ruining game?
I will just finish game as fast as i can and then i will leave. If there is way to help killer to stop cheater, i'd do. But just because BHVR is failed to stop cheaters, i won't take responsibility. But i would not work with this cheater , like healing for example.
Your only other option is to take a cheated win instead of punishing the cheater and have the chance the killer lets you go with your item and addons.
Unless you're morally bankrupt i don't see as to why you'd try to "win" a match with a cheater on your team, you can't even claim you didn't notice the dude cheating, because unlike a subtle 3% movement increase, noclipping into a locker is noticeable to even the newest of players.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540137#Comment_3540137
they are giving up something, they're giving up a different perk that might provide different value. example, if their build was WoO+MFT+Resi+Hope. Their build changing to WOO+MFT+Calm spirit+Distoration is giving up Hope and & Resilience.
If anything, you might be gaining value as killer because your facing weaker perks because your perk is gating their load out.
Come on man, you gotta stop being disingenuous.
Nobody is going to double stack distortion and CS.
It's either one or the other depending on the current "meta".
Swapping out adrenaline for CS or distortion is by all metrics a massive benefit for the survivor.
Adrenaline does feel like the survivors NOED, but atleast it only procs once when all the gens pop, meanwhile distortion and CS provide permanent value throughout the match and essentially turn off a killers perks and power for free.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539805#Comment_3539805
calm spirit+distortion requires survivors to run 8 perks out of 16 to counter your build. that is 50% of their entire load out. not only that, it only works vs said perks and does not neccassary improve your raw stealth capacity which is already pretty bad for survivor as is with scratch marks, cry of pain when injured and blood marks all being tracking tools that the killer can use.
blood echo and fearmonger by themselves are terrible perks but together, they're ok IF you can keep survivor injured. This is part of reason why killer do not run these perks because survivors only run 1 exhaustion perk, so even if all 4 survivors run 1 exhaustion perk, they're only using 25% of load out while your running 2 perks for 50% of your load out to counter exhaustion. the irony is that while exhaustion effect makes you indirectly strong in chase, it doesn't improve your raw chase capacity which for many killer is already not very good. the killer that have good chase capacity don't need these perks because they outplay exhaust perks without needing any perks due to her strong-chase in-chase mobility.
counter-perk are part of the game but they're not exactly good perks because cost of running them does not meet rewards in most cases. survivor can run these types of perks more on individual scale to complement stealth approach but rarely will you be ever facing entire team using said perks. by the fact survivors are not all using same perks, it means your perks will activate. Just not on every survivor. if killer or survivor have corresponding perks, you can still win the match without your perks. the perk are optional advantage, not a given advantage that works 100% of the time.
This is a blatantly disingenuous argument.
CS is being used now to counter the usage of UW and other screaming build/synergies with it.
CS provides you INFINITE deletion to ATLEAST 25% of a killers build , if the killer is running a DMS/UW combo you counter 50% of his entire build for free permanently.
If doctor one day becomes a super high pickrate , CS would full hard counter doctors power and its synergies.
Distortion is also a full hard counter to aura builds and perks, and the easiness of token regen also lets it stay up for the entire match.
Survivors just end up giving up the "extra" chase perk in their build for an extremely unhealthy hard counter like CS/Distortion.
You end up seeing builds that consist of WOO+MFT+Resi+CS/Distortion
Effectively giving up nothing of their own core build to hard counter a killers entire aura/scream builds and perks, you can't pass this off as balanced in any way shape or form, it's an extremely unhealthy perk design at its core.
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Imo, perks that just fully hard counter other perks are fundamentally unhealthy.
Distortion full hard countering aura builds/Perks is just ridiculous, a suggestion has already been made previously to restrict the token regen to either only happen while *IN chase* or only happen *OUT of chase*. Theres instances where even with Lethal + 9 BBQ procs, the distortion user doesn't run out of tokens because of how the regen works.
Calm Spirit full hard counters Screaming builds/Perks and Doctor as a whole. Tokenize it like distortion + regen tokens only when out of chase inside the killers TR to keep the theme of the perk.
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Examples of well designed "Counter perks" are Fearmonger and Blood echo.
Fearmonger putting 5 secs/Pausing exhaustion when working on a gen is enough to mitigate the usage of Exhaustion perks while not outright deleting them.
Same thing for blood echo, IF you're injured WHEN someone else gets hooked, you get hit with 45s of exhaustion(60s CD) it mitigates exhaustion perks, but you'll still end up getting value out of them.
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Meanwhile Distortion and Calm spirit just delete the perks they are countering for the entire game to the point where if you bring Lethal+BBQ+UW+NWTH (or any other aura/Info build) you'll essentially be playing perkless because the survivor decided to bring 2 perks.
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@Melinko said:
Vauts broken, Alien broken neither a priority.
Flashlight glitch and insta killswitch.
How about killswitch Xeno as well as a sign of caring about survivor mains as well?
These kind of actions are helping to add to the killer vs survivor mentality in the community. And yes, I understand that a couple people running with flashlights could create a terrible situation for killers but unless it was 4 people working together, there was still people to hunt while one person just wasted their own time in a locker. Would be better if they kill switched lockers but doing that would have hurt killers since a majority now run Pefect Weapon.
Also, my main killer to play is Dredge, so yeah killswitching lockers would have made him useless but I still think it was the better choice. Survivors have no shot to safe a teammate from being hooked now (Don't say flashbang as you are saying to waste a perk slot versus carrying an item)
My brother in christ, what kind of mental gymnastics are you doing to compare survivors essentially being able to become invincible and allowing the survivors to take the game hostage to xeno sometimes not being slowed down an extra 0.1ms after a M2?
these "actions" dont "add to the killer v survivor mentality", Takes and tribalism biases like yours do.
Nobody with a shred of integrity would defend the absolute gamebreak that the Flashlight Noclip exploit was.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539602#Comment_3539602
They were here when i joined. Its hard to remember that far back. But i never saw them as extremely survivor sided. Ive seen them have views both ways people just more point them out when they say something against killers with how this forum swings (if im honest). On the bug front. When youve been around that long youve seen so many bugs abused from both sides with defenders. But Eitherway they are allowed to their views. Don't need to be hostile.
Im sorry, but sleepy is right, if you notice a teammate cheating/exploiting you should at the very minimum, deny him heals / Unhooks
Actively progressing a match and helping a cheater prosper is just as bad as cheating itself.
we're not talking about a "if I do this input it will look like the killer is smacking another person with my body!" glitch we're talking about an exploit that makes you invincible and has the potential to take the killer hostage.
Comments like "So I help the killer and I still get killed anyway" screams self entitlement and undeniable bias.
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Imo, theres "tiers" to tunneling.
T1 hard tunnel - 3 hooks 1 kill, very simple.
T2 Soft tunnel - even though you've hooked other people, you still prefer to chase the survivor and re-hook a survivor you've previously hooked. (Hook A, Hook B, Find A and C on the same spot and you prefer chasing A)
T3 Survivor induced tunneling - while chased,survivor B decides to lead the chase back to A on hook and unhooks infront of the killer. This more often than not results in a slug + A "tunneled" off hook.
T4 survivor induced tunneling via speedrun unhook - Surv B rescues A when the killer didn't even have time to walk 10 meters, at this point the smart play is to wait 10s for basekit BT to run out and rehook A instead of engaging in a 30s chase with B.
More often than not survivors complain about T3 and T4 "tunneling". Most killers due to game strategy alone engage in T2 soft "tunneling" because it just makes the most sense to remove a survivor in a relatively fast way.
You'll very rarely find T1 hard tunneling because it just isn't the best play in general.
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@random1543 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538445#Comment_3538445
Nobody should be banned for devs mistakes. They are playing the game as installed. If anyone gets banned over this it'll be ridiculous when the devs can kill switch flashlights in a hour.
It's not up to the player base to not use glitches because you can't fix your game. The Fast vaults where technically a glitch, is everyone that did a mega fast vault before patch gonna be banned?
Is everyone playing xeno right now gonna be banned because cooldown glitch?
What kind of logic is this? Defending people that are abusing *exploits*?
If people find a glitch they should report it, and not make showcase videos on YT/TTV
There's an *extreme* level of difference between the locker glitch allowing you to take a game hostage and the xeno bug not slowing you down an extra 0.1ms after M2.
Abusing exploits that allow you to take the game hostage should be instant ban.
There's no possible claim that people doing this are accidentally stumbling upon it since it requires you to bring a specific item , then do a specific button input in order to noclip into a locker.
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@Somkif said:
So I have seen many people say something is overpowered in the game for example some killers are more overpowered then others and that survivor perks or better then some. Some say this game is killer sided and or survivor sided and I have to be honest this game in its current state is killer sided as survivors get nerfs a lot while killers hardly get any and if they do very small unlike survivors who get pretty big nerfs so is this gonna he changed soon?
Thats an extraordinary amount of flawed logic.
Your logic is comparable to calling trapper overpowered because he hasn't been nerfed as much as other killers.
The game is fundamentally survivor sided, and the evidence is in the survivor builds + killrates.
1 - if survivors weren't expecting to reliably make it to end game , they wouldn't be running adren/hope as often as they do since you're effectively 2 perks down the whole game.
2 - killrates are supposed to be at 60%~ and right now they are in the low 50s high 40s.
3 - the "biggest" survivor nerfs were to undeniably busted perks like old DH for distance and COH infinite selfheal base just to name a few.
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@Zokenay said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538067#Comment_3538067
The final point is just wrong, dodging the tail by reaction just isnt really possible.
Jund even made a vid about it frame by frame, and the survivor only dodged cause he started moving before the attack even started, there just isnt enough time to react dodge to it.
The point of the clip wasn't to showcase *him* dodging, just that it is possible and there's audio and visual cues.
In that specific spot any survivor worth their salt would move out of that hallway since you'd effectively be stuck in a straight line against a ranged killer.
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@TabS said:
So now that the hype is starting to settle down finally and the majority who wanted Xenomorph (Alien) in the game probably got it when is the nerf coming?
This killer is pretty annoying and really-really boring to go against. It can hit through walls/windows/pallets AND have an M1 in crawler mode (and most Xeno players only use this to hard-tunnel anyway) and have a small terror radius, the turrets are pretty much only useful to tell the survivors that it's near cuz 1 turret usually doesn't even get it out of crawler mode (plus they break for a sec when it gets out of a tunnel) so chases are short and dodging is not really a thing since there's no telegraph and there's a weird, buggy like.... lingering hitbox[?] plust the tail's hitbox and no punishment for missing (unlike Nemesis).
So the question is now that Alien fans got what they wanted when will the nerf come?
1 - having access to M1 in crawler mode is quite literally *required* otherwise hitting survivors in melee range would be impossible thanks to the tails delay and finecky hitbox.
2 - the turrets are an audio and visual cue with a 41m radius, it works similar to the visual heartbeat, closer xeno is, the faster and louder it beeps.
3 - one turret can and DOES knock him out of power, you just need to learn how to place them to the *side* of the loops instead of inside them , force the killer to choose between losing his M2, or dealing with the turrets and granting you distance.
4 - there's an audio and visual cue for the tail strike, https://streamable.com/cnvuyj the M2 is pressed, the tail visually goes up aswell as a whoosh sound. Theres enough time to dodge.
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By design Survivors aren't meant to be able to loop a killer for 5 gens, stop demanding xeno to become a pushover killer.
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By logic alone, if tunneling / slugging / camping was happening at the rate yall claim it is, then the stats would show an increase in counterperks.
For example, alot more players would equip reassurance, OTR, Unbreakable, boon:expo , DH, etc etc. To counter the "unsavory tactics"
But instead we see chase builds much more often with mft,resi,windows,hope,adren , etc etc.
It makes no sense to "suffer from a problem" yet refuse to change your build around in order to address it.
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For example, if you identify that you have a problem getting your first chase as killer, you'll consider putting on lethal persuer.
Struggling to find that last pesky survivor? Start using ultimate weapon.
And so on and so on.
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@EvilTwin said:
Distortion is perfectly fine as is. I’m saying this as a killer who loves aura perks. There are plenty of survivor builds that completely counter killer builds and vice versa. It isn’t that big of a deal having to track survivors the old fashioned way.
if it really bothers you just run Xeno’s new locker perk. Completely counters Distortion.
Also remember that if the survivor going against a killer without Aura reading they’re basically playing with only 3 perks. Distortion is completely fine and the buff was much needed imo
Thats inherently not true, if distortion doesn't proc you know what perks the killer isn't running.
if you know 2-3 perks, know theres no totems in play, distortion never proc'd so theres no auras in play and can't figure out the last ones, you can safely assume its an endgame build and should probably do totems to avoid NOED / 99 the gates instead of popping them incase of blood warden.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3534581#Comment_3534581
The reason the turrets have a huge placement circle is because they do body block you. If they were smaller you could use them to body block the killer (I already tried), it's just big enough that you can't put it anywhere the killer can't squeeze through.
The argument doesn't really make sense unless all the Xenos are masters at her already. Which they aren't. We learn at the same time so the kill rate should be near what the kill rate will end up from the beginning.
My man, there's nothing to learn as killer when it comes to xeno, it's just a mix of demo and nemesis.
Survivors have to learn the new audio / visual cue for the M2 , and learn how to properly use turrets.
It's no wonder xeno feels "opressive " , you still have to learn its counterplay properly while xeno players just transfer their skills over 1:1.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3534330#Comment_3534330
You realize solo survivors is the largest demographic of players on DBD right?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3534324#Comment_3534324
I disagree on the turrets, they take too long to move around and on a lot of maps there isn't actually a "good spot". It's better to just plop them down quickly and use them as a warning system. That being said, there isn't a whole lot to learn, she's basically nemesis if he could spam tentacle a lot more.
The argument that it takes time to learn a counter and reduce the kill rate just isn't a good one. Especially since during that same time killers haven't figured out how to play her perfect either. Her kill rate has come down some for me, but it's still 10% above the average.
The turrets could use some QOL improvements like reducing the placement radius and a reduction on the hindered.
It's indeed a fair complaint that the turret placement zone is too big for certain maps and you just can't place them sometimes. (RPD, The Game, etc)
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Yes it is a valid argument that you need to learn counter play before demanding nerfs, because the other side of the argument is the equivalent to people demanding nerfs to trapper because they can't be bothered to look down or disarm traps.
Theres effectively no "techs" or "skills" you need to learn to play xeno at 100% efficiency, PC killers had the PTB to practice on, and everyone else had YT videos from the PTB showcasing the killer, however turret placement and efficiency is a "skill" you need to learn to counter xeno.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3534124#Comment_3534124
Same argument, what is there to learn about playing against her? She is an anti loop killer, so W keying is the way to go. Just saying that people need to gut gud is not a good argument. Wesker is an A tier killer, I don't remember Wesker being this hard to live against on launch. I enjoyed playing against him quite a bit actually.
Much like every other killer, theres specific things you have to learn and know in order to "counterplay" the killers.
Nurse? Break LOS, and if that can't be done, try double backing so she overshoots the blink.
Trapper? Pay attention to the ground incase of traps, disarm them if you can.
Hag? Same thing as trapper
Bubba and billy? loop around tight spots and hard bends to force them to hit the loop and come out of their power.
Demo? Mind the shreds and and break his portals.
etc etc.
Xeno requires you to learn optimal placement for the turrets, aswell as knowing to use the turret beeping as an indicator to pre-run.
Its been a week, people are starting to understand the turret placements resulting in xeno killrates being ~58%.
Xeno is not an "overpowered" killer by any metric.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3534092#Comment_3534092
I have adjusted to the killer, no one has asked me what I do differently.
Firstly bringing chase perks against her is pointless, she wins, her chase is better than most killers possibly even blight.
So load up on either a heal build which I prefer, with empathy + juiced medkit + renewel + plot twist + built to last. This lets me keep my team healed and lets me get free health states without wasting my medkit.
The other option is a gen rush build which is a little riskier. If the killer is running enough slowdown, your tool boxes could be a complete waste. But when it works out, the game ends pretty fast.
Second turrets are better used as a warning system then to actually pop the killer out of her power. I usually just pull the turret out and slam it right down where I found it. Now it beeps letting me know if shes on her way and when I should start W keying away.
In knowing all this, she still has a high kill rate imo. And the argument that survivors need to adjust to a new killer, what about the killers being new to her? Shouldn't they need to adjust too? Why are you assuming everyone is just a master Xeno player? Seems weird that you think that's an argument when everyone should be playing mediocre, and yet the killer still is obliterating people.
Be real here, what exactly is there to learn when it comes to play xeno? How to enter a tunnel and crawl out the other? its just holding W until arriving at your desired destination. Destroying turrets? all you gotta do is look at it and M1 or M2 it.
Realistically the only thing thats a "learnable skill" is mastering the tail attack ... even then, anybody that has played nemesis knows how to use a Tier 1 tentacle strike which is pretty much what the Xeno tail is.
Its inherentely not a very mechanical or muscle memory skill demanding killer hence everyone will be pretty confortable playing as xeno and theres no "adapting" when it comes to killer players learning xeno.
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@Dogma_loki said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533610#Comment_3533610
Its just a very small part of the picture. A lot of players don't even use the website. You're trying to present it as infallible evidence, which it's not.
By the way killer mains screaming "SKILL ISSUE" all the time is an intellectually devoid move. Its their way of appealing to all the edge lords who can't present a meaningful logical argument and instead troll on the forums.
By nightlights nature, its going to consist of data from fairly experienced players (Mid to High MMR), which is the data set where people reasonably know what they are doing, and where you can make a fair assesement if something is indeed overpowered or overtuned.
If you took data from low mmr as valid data, then nurse and blight would seem extremely weak due to the steep learning curve.
Right now the valid data from 2600 matches puts xeno as 57% killrate, which is actually a tad under ideal from BHVR's 60-62% target range.
Furthermore, when killer kill averages are lowering into high 40s low 50s, theres something wrong with game balance in the survivors favor, and this is not something than can be denied.
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@Rihelo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533639#Comment_3533639
and then if so why bother even adding bots? should've just left them on custom game.
Because in case a survivor throws a fit and ragequits atleast the match isn't immediately doomed with a 3 v 1 at 5 gens.
You can argue the maximum dc penalty should be 30m to 1 hour, but thats another topic.
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@Rihelo said:
there is no point in having bots with dc penalty bc the majority of people are just going to give up on hook, and anyways my game keeps goddamn crashing and now i have 24 hours of dc penalty just because of goddamn crashes. And why in the hell are there dc penalties over an hour 30 minutes is enough there's no point in adding all these hours as penalty to a game, how is it a game if i can't even play it.
As it has been said in multiple threads like this.
We play multiplayer games to play with or against other players, being forced to play vs bots or not getting a match at all because people DCd over the smallest of inconveniences wouldn't be healthy for the game.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533626#Comment_3533626
Oh I assumed this was a website by the competitive killer player. Anyone can upload? What sort of vetting is there? I am happy to take a screenshot but I will get what I always get "You need a bagillion matches before I will look at it".
I think it's a cool website but I would doubt anyone below the 5-10% is uploading data. You are just going to get which killer is doing well at the top end.
Like I said above I just reset it because the game has changed pretty significantly since I started recording.
Bias isn't always a bad thing, mine is biased towards how a solo survivor would do against killers.
Anyone can make an account and upload, it also keeps your *personal stats* in your own dashboard after you upload the matches.
The vetting process is detailed in the official documentation.
I'd argue nightlight data consists of *mostly* mid to high mmr data, with a few low mmr matches in between.
It's good enough to obtain a fairly accurate statistical analysis of DBD in terms of pickrates , killrates, perk usage rates etc etc. It has stayed on par with official bhvr stats for quite a long time with just a couple % of difference.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533617#Comment_3533617
My statistics are an accurate representation of what her kill rate would look like against the average solo queue team. His statistics are a dump from what I would hope is top end killer mains? But I would have to look at his FAQ if he even has one. 2.3k games in this time frame is a ton of different people sending him numbers. How do you know the numbers you are getting from them aren't lies? What if survivor and killer mains are sending in numbers? What if the people sending in numbers are trolling or just paying for fun?
I use the same perks every game I record, I keep track of DCs but I keep the 2 stats separate. I also have a separate row for killers who hard tunnel. To see if tunneling actually increases kill rate (spoiler it increases your kill rate by 15-25%).
I just reset it a few weeks ago so I am fresh, with only 60 games. And Xeno just came out so it would be impossible to get to a respectable data set in the time frame. That being said, she is performing very strong with how new players should be with her.
Nightlight is a dbd website where people upload screenshots of the endgame screen to be validated by its AI.
If you want to understand what kind of matches qualify you can read up on the documentation.
Nightlight.gg is fairly reliable and has stayed consistently on par with official bhvr stats within a couple percents. Its just lacking representation from lower mmrs because by logic alone, casuals don't care about the game that much to upload their matches to the site, however lack of low mmr representation is honestly a big plus since data from nooblets is worthless.
2300+ matches have been uploaded to nightlight.gg and the killrate sits at a fair 57%.
For all the "90% killrate" claims you do you still have yet to show your statistical work backed by cold hard evidence.
One could even argue that your statistics would be inherently biased due to multiple factors.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533610#Comment_3533610
So in other words he is including a ton of variables like other players and a ton of different perk load outs that make the statistics unreliable.
What in the god damn hell are you on about?
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533588#Comment_3533588
I keep statistics. She has a 75-80% kill rate. I don't count games where a survivor DCs or gives up.
Show your work then.
Nightlight.gg currently has 2300+ xeno games and it shows a 57% killrate.
And that clearly shows that xeno isn't as opressive as yall claim it to be.
It's one of those times where it all chalks up to survivor skill issue.
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@Gandor said:
This clip just shows you can't use the ability effectively yet. You are trying to directly hit over obstacles (and miss fair share of those of course - that's hard). If you were dragging cursor down, all those misses would be easy hits.
Also people complain that his CD is too short - but technically this is wrong. 3s are indeed long time. What people don't realize is, that the problem is, that xeno can very quickly follow you because of 50% speed during miss CD = you are not really punished for missing hit
The dude posts a clip compilation of other survivors being able to read and dodge the tail attack, and instead of admitting you were wrong and that you CAN and HAVE time to dodge the tail attack you go on a tangent claiming he had skill issue as xeno...
Yall trying to grasp at anything in order to justify nuking xeno so survivors can turn their brains off as usual, very disapointing.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3532911#Comment_3532911
Being in range of your opponent, predicting their actions, and hitting a single button is considered skilled now?
Glad to hear it.
Although it's interesting that when it's a killer ability it's 'skill', but when it's dead hard, it 'takes no effort and is free' for literally years until it gets nerfed into the dirt. Strange how that works out.
You're trying to compare Xeno's M2 that requires relatively accurate aiming with no crosshair or aiming indicator, requires you to read survivors movement + Window/Pallet Fakes, and game sense to know how far 4.8m is in order to land "snipes" to DH ...
The same DH that gave you almost 10m of free distance for pressing E in in the general direction of a pallet / Window...
The same DH that made killers have to spend 10s sniffing a survivors hair to attempt to bait DH, even if the survivor DIDN'T bring DH.
Come on man, sometimes you gotta read your own posts and realize how ridiculous you sound, that is survivor main hottake of the year contender right there.
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@Stormtytan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3527393#Comment_3527393
It does not fully delete Lethal. Another survivor next to me is nearly as pinpointing as not having Distortion in the first place. I have to move away from that survivor and hope it's not toward the killer in order to have a chance of not getting caught...which counters the idea of survivors working together, btw.
Regarding BBQ, don't you mean 24m? That's the standard killer's terror radius.
MOST generators are well within 8 meters of lockers, with the exception of a few hanging out in a cornfield...
Close to half? Closer to 1/3, actually, though I have no idea how you came to the time of 5.45 seconds in the first place. Do you have a link that could confirm this? And you're assuming the killer doesn't see the survivor from a distance, which is quite a possibility. You're also assuming there's only one survivor on the gen in question, or that they BOTH/ALL have distortion. And just how likely is a killer NOT going to check the nearby lockers? There's two tokens lost for (taking into account the extra time to check a locker) 2/3 regen. Sorry, but your worst-case scenario isn't even close to reality. There's no guarantee that the killer won't walk around the tree/outcropping/whatever and see the survivor despite Distortion.
Again, distortion does delete lethal, just because the killer happened to check your area and found you, doesn't mean it didn't delete lethal's effect.
Regarding BBQ , you're wrong on 2 layers... BBQ is default 40m radius , Standard killer TR is 32m for 115% and 24m for 110%.
Basic math tells you that it takes you 5.45 seconds to run 24m if you move at 4.4 meters per second (32m/4.6ms = 6.95). The closer to half portion comes from basic game knowledge and knowing that if a killer has to make turns and bends around obstacles and tiles, then by logic alone its going to give the distortion survivor more time in the TR radius in order to regen tokens.
Claiming distortion "doesn't work" because your teammate didn't bring it too is an invalid argument, if it had a token it still prevented the killer from knowing where YOU are. Arguments based on "well the killer used his eyeballs and saw me hiding" are also not a valid arguments.
Again, this post is just asking for distortion to either only regen tokens while in a chase, OR NOT regen while in a chase. Tokens regening just for the killer existing on the map is inherentely too much free value.
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@AGM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3531381#Comment_3531381
A good portion doesn't mean it needs to be more than 95% of the trial.
And I didn't say anything like ending Xeno's power completely if a couple of flames lick them.
Currently, Crawler Mode takes 35 charges to activate. Above ground, Xeno gains 1 charge per second, and when in the tunnels this is (absurdly, imo) boosted up to 8 charges per second. I just think the flames from turrets should drain the power gauge by a certain number of charges per second instead of making it an all or nothing interaction. That way after every flame turret (not just when it successfully knocks Xeno out of Crawler Mode) the player has to make a tactical choice as to whether they should continue chase as an m1 killer or drop chase to reobtain Crawler Mode.
But in regards to survivor tips, I'm not sure why you keep bringing up the flame turrets when I'm specifically talking about the scenario where you're being chased by a Xeno in Crawler Mode and any flame turrets nearby have been destroyed. You can't place a flame turret mid-chase, so I'm not sure how turrets are relevant to the scenario I'm describing in any way. And I'm not sure why you need a clip to imagine the scenario unless you've never played against Xeno, as it happens literally every game against them.
"I Dont want to end xeno's power if a couple of flames lick it"
"I want it to remove charges so it loses crawler mode for a couple of seconds if a flame licks it"
How do you manage to contradict yourself not even 2 sentences apart...
If it loses charges and gets knocked out of power, then hes a glorified M1 killer, glad to know yall only consider killers "balanced and fair" if they are just powerless M1s.
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imo, a couple of mori animations for each killer that you'd unlock at p10-12 or buy in the shop would be great.
+ Yellow mori should be basekit, Game's already over if you catch the 4th survivor before he finds hatch, atleast lemme have the option get a cool animation to end the match.
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@jesterkind said:
There are two perks in the game currently that I'd like to use as an example to contrast Resilience to here, and I'm curious what other people think. The two perks are Iron Will and Made For This; now, setting aside what you think about how strong those two perks are, they both have the same balancing condition applied to them. Neither of them work while the user is Exhausted, but also don't themselves inflict the Exhaustion status effect.
To me, the purpose of that condition is to apply pressure on what other perks you bring in. You can't be both stealthy (for Iron Will) or gain a passive chase boost (for Made For This) as well as getting the active chase benefits of a full Exhaustion perk.
So, then, would it be fair to add that condition to Resilience as well? The idea behind that perk is gaining benefits to action speed (+ vaulting) at the cost of being vulnerable because you're injured, so would it be reasonable to add the extra stipulation that you can't easily circumvent that vulnerability with a quick get-out-of-dodge ability?
There'd still be plenty of synergies left, so it wouldn't be a dramatic blow to build diversity, but it would be another nudge towards constructing builds more carefully than just slapping on a bunch of blanket buffs in all areas. Curious to know what people think!
All the perk needs is a time limiter of about 30s , you'd still get your benefits during the chase, but if you wanted to get them again for next chase, you'd need to spend time healing.
Playing insta down killers against this meta is completely pointless, you get your first down, then they just remain injured for the rest of the match. Since you're going down in 1 hit anyway, might aswell save the 16s you'd take to heal in order to be harder to catch while injured AND do gens 9% faster, pretty sure if you do the math Resi is a bigger boost to gen speeds than Prove thyself individually. (9% out of 1 Cps is much greater than 10% out of 0.85 Cps while co-oping)
Iron Will is perfectly fine because it doesn't boost your core game speeds, its just an anti audio tracking perk.
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@AGM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3531250#Comment_3531250
You don't really need clips to discuss meta killer strategies for both sides.
As you can read in the original post, I have been playing as him, and I generally understand how to use flame turrets. As I stated, the main situation I don't understand is what survivors are supposed to do when flame turrets have been destroyed and Xeno inevitably catches up with you, because it's literally impossible to place flame turrets faster than Xeno can destroy them, and then even if the turret ends Crawler Mode they can just pop in the tunnels for less than 5 seconds to get it back.
So given that when I play Xeno and I can essentially be in Crawler Mode for the vast majority of the game... now what are survivors supposed to do? When I catch up to survivors they literally have no way to avoid getting hit. They cant even duck to avoid hits at some loops. Even Pyramid Head and Nemesis are slowed down while they have their powers out and if they miss. Hell, Pyramid Head even gets slowed down even more just for taking his sword out.
And against those two killers there are general counterplay tips while in chase (i.e. duck after vaulting to try to avoid the tentacle hit, path unpredictably around a loop if a Pyramid Head is going for prediction shots, use the time when they get slowed down after a missed attack to make distance). But a comparably similar special attack on Xeno has very little counterplay, barely has an activation condition, and has the tiniest penalty upon missing. Taking into consideration Xeno as a whole, it just seems to me both that Crawler Mode is overtuned and that flame turrets aren't effective enough of a counterplay mechanic. Heck, if flame turrets removed X amount of charges per second from Crawler Mode while Xeno is being burnt instead of it being an 'all or nothing' scenario I believe they would be in a much better spot as a means of counterplay.
Yes, you do need clips, as far as im concerned you could be running in a straight line trough a turret, not even attempting to properly counterplay.
Xeno has to be able to be in crawler mode a good portion of the time, otherwise hes just an M1 killer with crossmap traverse, arguably worse than demo at that point.
Turrets shouldn't knock xeno out of its power if he gets burned for a second, right now it takes about 2 seconds to knock xeno out of power and thats a healthy amount of time to allow for counterplay while also allowing xeno to react and defend itself.
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@AGM said:
I'm both asking for tips and providing feedback on my personal experiences.
After at least 15 or more games going against Xeno and a handful playing as them, I still have no clue what survivors are really supposed to do against a Xeno in Crawler Mode.
Obviously if there's a flame turret nearby then I'll run by it, but I've noticed a few problems with this strategy, namely: 1) If the Xeno destroys the turret before it can force Xeno out of Crawler Mode, then the turret does very little to help the survivor being chased, and 2) Even if Xeno is forced out of Crawler Mode they can just pop in the tunnels for around 5 seconds and already have it back. While this helps the survivor that was being chased, especially if the Xeno decides to break chase to reacquire Crawler Mode, it leads into my next point.
So, if there isn't a flame turret nearby... then what are survivors supposed to do exactly? Windows and pallets are worse than useless against tail attacks except for the occasional god pallet that you are forced to pre-drop if and only if you have enough distance, and even if a survivor manages to dodge a tail attack, the buff to Xeno's movement speed on miss has made Xeno so fast that survivors literally can't capitalize on what should be their only opportunity to make distance and just end up stuck at whatever tile they are being chased at until they get hit.
The most comparable special attack to Crawler Mode Xeno is Nemesis' tentacle, and Nemesis moves at 1.15 m/s for 2.5s after using his tentacle attack, while Xeno moves at 2 m/s for 3s... and Xeno doesn't even have to infect survivors to start doing damage. Instead Xeno just has to spend around 5 seconds in the tunnels to get Crawler Mode.
From a balance perspective and fun perspective for survivors, I think Crawler Mode might need to be toned down slightly. Don't get me wrong though: I love the idea behind Xeno and its power despite my negative tone in this post, I just think Crawler Mode could use some number changes to make Xeno more fun for survivors to play against. This is nothing like Skull Merchant, where her entire power kit is unfixable with simple number tweaks.
TL;DR: Crawler Mode feels too easy to acquire for how powerful it is, flame turrets don't provide adequate counterplay against Crawler Mode in their current state, and Xeno isn't punished enough for missed attacks in Crawler Mode.
Provide clips or a recording if you do actually want feedback and tips.
Additionally, playing xeno yourself would help you understand what works against it and what doesn't.
General tips are understanding that the turret beeps warn you the killer is within 41m of it, and the faster/louder it beeps, the closer he is.
And dont place turrets in a direct straight line from the tunnel to wherever you're going to be, place them to the side of where you're going to run to so xeno is forced to pick between getting knocked out of M2, or destroying the turret but losing track of you / conceding distance.
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@adaw0ng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530926#Comment_3530926
Prestige doesn’t equal skill. Solely for this misconception of it, it’s good that they will hide it soon. It conditions players when the point of it was never that.
High prestige doesn't equal "skill" but it equals experience, and having the "experience" to know map tiles and how to chain them, how to shutdown killer powers, knowing where gens spawn etc etc is a skill in of itself.
Theres no denying that a P100 with 1k hours in the game will be an overall better player than a P3 with 100 hours.
Personally I enjoyed getting high prestige lobbies so I could improve and learn loops significantly faster as killer tbh, aint no fun in curb stomping fresh installs that just hold shift W.
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@Unfunny_Clown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530661#Comment_3530661
I mean perk has already it's own limitations by not working while exhausted so on the get go you can't use sprint burst or overcome with it, that leaves up DH/ lithe / BL and smash hit which is super unreliable and is evident by the fact it has 20 sec cooldown instead of the usual 40 and Dramathurgy or w/e it's called now out of all these the only one that synergises best is arguably DH so there you have 2 perk slots gone,, DH and MFT working while injured screams resilience so 3 slots gone,,this is my usual build and on 4 slot i go windows ,, survivor has less choices when it comes to perks or i should better say viable choices,,occasionaly i go full memes with a head on build and flashbang which somehow makes killer angry to the point where i get focused out of the game fast,,maybe it's the fact that the build is weaker compared to chase oriented builds using mft,,but i beg to differ,,it's nowhere near as boring/ bad/ unfair comapred to the old DH/DS/UB meta ,,i hated playing killer back then and while i do still get rolled sometimes as well these days i don't feel robed like i used to when people would bodyblock you with DS forcing either a slug which did nothing because of UB or eat a 5 sec stun
And thats where the problem lies... survivors only classify perks as viable if they are busted beyond belief and allow survivors to turn their brain off.
Even pebble is viable since it can cause the killer to search in the wrong direction and end up wasting time.
But sadly since the perk doesn't speed up gens or affect action speeds its instantly classified as "bad"
I still stand by my beliefs that no survivor perk should mess with the games core speeds as easy as they do now. "While injured" is not a valid requirement for such strong effects.
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@coco_shotz said:
In all fairness at this point in the game there has to be some type of incentive to being injured, it happen so often especially vs a killer like the legion. There has to be some type of compensation for being constantly near death so these perks allow for an "all or nothing" approach. While it can be problematic to a degree, you can't say that these things aren't allowed cause if that's the case the perks like noed should also disappear since you didnt stop the survivors from doing all the gens therefore you deserve to lose. See how one sided that sounds?
Thats not the "gotcha" moment you think it is.
Theres no credible killer player defending NOED , we all know NOED feels incredibly cheap.
perks "while injured" shouldn't buff your core game values like movement or Gen speeds , its blatantly obvious that having a personal Prove thyself when you take damage or get off-hook in the form of Resi is infact busted.
Against insta down killers nobody is going to heal up since you're going down in 1 hit either way, so might aswell do gens 9% faster and move 3% faster.
Time gating both perks to 30s after getting injured would be a much healthier option. you still get the benefits during your chase, but if you get caught you have to spend time re-healing to get its effects again.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528765#Comment_3528765
You're acting like they're running a quarter mile instantly. I don't know who's out here complaining about C33, but it just isn't a good add-on. I don't need MFT to dodge a Blight running C33. It's hilarious that the crux of your argument concerning Blight is that people complain about not being able to dodge C33.
I was dodging Wesker, Artist, Blight, Oni, Pyramid, and Billy's powers long before MFT existed. Let's not pretend like you'd be guaranteed to hit them if it weren't for that meddling MFT.
As for Wraith, he's an M1 killer yes, but he also moves significantly faster than survivors while cloaked, with add-ons that can make that faster.
Your entire case is founded on the assumption that A - Made for This is already active, and B - The survivor is at a safe loop. If the survivor is at a safe loop, I promise you it's not MFT that's the issue. MFT is only exacerbating existing issues.
If the survivor is at an unsafe loop, you'll hit them as Wraith and Bubba. You might have an issue with Billy, but Billy's power doesn't really shine at loops unless you're really good at him.
Freddy and Clown are not "pure M1 killers" just because their powers aren't active 100% of the time. Clown's power completely shuts down MFT.
Freddy has to put survivors in the dream state for his snares to work, and injuring survivors puts them in the dream state. Snares apply a 15% hindered. MFT is only 3% haste. That's a 12% movement speed reduction.
If you don't know how Freddy and Clown actually work, you shouldn't act like you do.
Singularity shuts down Pallet Loops, and using the right add-ons also shuts down MFT.
I covered the ranged killers, and won't do so again.
You're using the word disingeneous wrong. I'm not misrepresenting evidence that the majority of killers aren't screwed by MFT. You're looking for any reason to say MFT shuts down killers by placing it in the most ideal circumstance, which just does not happen all the time. That's disingeneous.
Any killer that has an exhaustion add-on isn't screwed by MFT. If your argument is "But I shouldn't have to run XYZ to counter a perk!" then you should stick to Call of Duty. If X Counters Y, Y counters Z, and Z counters X, then you can't complain when you choose not to use the tools given to you.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528868#Comment_3528868
That isn't the "Gotcha" you think it is, my guy. I play the game plenty, and very rarely do I see a killer getting screwed by MFT. I also understand how looping works, but a killer moving at 115 with a larger hitbox is still going to eventually catch a survivor moving at 103% (Rounding up). A killer moving significantly faster than that is going to catch that survivor much faster. Especially at loops that can be mindgamed.
I'll make it a little simpler for you buddy. The killers who are, objectively, screwed by MFT are Trapper, Hag, Doctor, Pig, Sadako, Myers and Nemesis. 7 Killers are actually screwed by MFT. The others are impacted by it, but not adversely so. That's the key take away here.
Of course a perk that increases movement speed while injured is going to have an impact on every killer, but to imply it has the same impact on every killer is a very disingeneous argument that skews the facts to make it look like the perk is eggregiously overpowered, when it really isn't.
Freddy and Clown are pure M1s, they can't damage unless they M1.... having a power that applies a bit of hinder for 3 seconds doesn't make them "non M1's" they still have to play the loops as an M1. they are C / D Tier killers for a reason.
Its quite honestly mind boggling that you still try to claim that a survivor running faster won't help them dodge Pyramids , artist, Weskers, blights, etc.
Singularity, again, is essentially an M1 killer, the teleport ability has extreme counterplay due to EMPs. and again, the Purple Soma family photo is obsolete thanks to MFT, 5% haste for 2 seconds , when you spend half of that in the tp animation , while MFT gives you 3% perma.
Suggesting add-ons and perks as "counterplay" is not even remotely acceptable. why should a killer player be forced to pay 9.99 for a killer just to be able get the perks in order to compete? and add-ons, what should a killer do once they run out of "exhaustion" add-ons? fall over and die?
Yes, the perk is eggregiously overpowered, denying it is ridiculous. when every other haste effect has limiters in place in the form of timers / strict activation requirements , MFT stands out like a sore thumb giving you a permanent 3% haste for being injured.
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@Yusoka said:
i thought the point of DC ban was because “it ruins the experience for others”, but now we have bots that continue the game if someone DCs and killers still get points for chasing/injuring/killing bots also, so why is there still a punishment for leaving a match?
Because as you might have guessed, in a multiplayer game, we want to play with other players, nobody queued up to play Killer v Bots.
Suggest a forfeit vote option after the first DC and that would be a healthier way to cancel a dead match.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3527937#Comment_3527937
Player skill is a very relevant metric. If it wasn't, a baby survivor could loop M1 Killers for days.
It doesn't provide "easier dodges" and to say you need to be a 10k hour streamer to counter mid mmr survivors with MFT is disingeneous.
The list of killers adversely affected by MFT is actually pretty short. Myers, Trapper, Hag, Pig, Doctor, Sadako, and Nemesis. That's 7 killers.
Freddy and Clown both apply the same 15% hindered to survivors. Freddy via Dream Snares, and Clown via his purple gas.
Plague only has to be right up your butt, fully infect you and then insta-down you.
Ghostie can expose you. Also has two exhaustion add-ons.
Billy has an insta-down, and really good Billy players can curve short loops on a 90° angle.
Bubba has an insta-down. Moves at 5.29m/s during a chainsaw sweep. Not screwed by MFT.Z
Dredge's anti-loop forces survivors to either leave the loop, where they're most likely to go down or get downed at the loop via the remnant. If they leave the loop, you're close enough that MFT doesn't get value. This isn't Sprint Burst.
Huntress forces you to drop the pallet, hits you with the hatchet. Only screwed by tall loops and would be screwed all the same due to requiring bloodlust just to catch a survivor at a loop. Not screwed by MFT any more than she's screwed by being a 110 killer. Also has an add-on that causes Exhaustion.
Deathslinger has the same problem as Huntress. Screwed by tall loops, but screwed all the same without MFT in play.
Oni also isn't screwed by MFT. Oni's Demon Dash is faster than the survivors. Same deal as Billy. I've played against some really good Oni players who understand how to curve to get even seemingly impossible downs.
Wesker's Dash Hitbox is very forgiving, and being fully infected afflicts you with hindered. Not screwed by MFT.
I don't think I need to explain how Blight's lethal rush works, and how Blight is the least impacted by MFT, second only to Nurse in that regard.
Spirit - If you're playing her like an M1 Killer, that's on you. Her phase walk allows her to move at 176% movement speed. You aren't escaping Spirit with MFT unless you're at an extremely safe loop, at which point she'd be screwed all the same. Not screwed by MFT.
Knight only has to sandwich the survivor between himself and his guard or put them in the same position as Dredge in order to secure the down. Not screwed by MFT. Also has an exhaustion add-on.
Skull Merchant doesn't even need to play the game. Set up a three gen from the start of the match and watch the survivors get bored after 10 minutes and voluntarily let themselves get killed. Chase-wise, Skull Merchant's haste from her drones makes it so you may as well not be running MFT, ontop of the drones exposing survivors who linger in their zone for too long. Not screwed by MFT. Also has an exhaustion add-on.
Singularity's teleport invalidates pallets when timed correctly, resulting in an insta-break. Soma Family Photo haste gives Singularity the advantage over MFT, especially when paired with Kid's Ball Glove to mitigate the duration penalty.
Artist - Anti-loop forces survivors to leave the loop. Also has an add-on that causes exhaustion. Not screwed by MFT.
Cenobite - Survivors have to break three chains to get away and are forced to slow vault while still chained. Three chains brings them down to 1.13m/s, and even a single chain brings them down to 2.26m/s. That's almost a 50% movement speed reduction with just one chain. Definitely not screwed by MFT.
Legion doesn't care about MFT. Legion only has to get 4 Feral Frenzy hits and then the fifth hit downs the survivor regardless of their deep wound state.
Pyramid Head's ranged attack invalidates pallets. You throw the pallet, you get hit. You greed the loop, you get hit. No more disadvantaged by MFT than he would be if the perk didn't exist.
Trickster has enough knives to spam that it doesn't matter if you dodge a few. Trickster simply doesn't care about MFT, and isn't as affected by it as you think.
Twins - Victor moves at 6.0m/s. A survivor with MFT doesn't have enough momentum to dodge Victor like it's the NFL. It's entirely a skill issue if you miss your pounce.
Wraith has an extended lunge upon uncloaking, moves at 150% speed while cloaked, and can body block survivors while cloaked. Not screwed by MFT.
Demo's Shred works in a similar fashion to Wesker's Dash, albeit far more restrictive. Pretty easy to hit survivors as they approach a loop, pallet or vault.
But sure, bud, the majority of killers are screwed by MFT and are forced to sulk in the corner and do nothing. I'll defend MFT until someone comes up with an argument that isn't just "Won't someone please think of the poor M1 killers?"
The perk currently does a little too much, but instead of nerfing it into oblivion and paving the way for the inevitable return of exhaustion perks, I suggest that every killer receive an add-on that causes exhaustion on a successful basic attack. A strong perk remains strong, and the "Poor M1 Killers" get a counter to MFT, Exhaustion Perks, Iron Will, Head On and any other perks that cannot be used while Exhausted.
With the amount of perks currently in the game, it's only going to be harder to come up with perks that are strong, useful or worth running. Taking the nerf bat to things is the simple approach, but it's not always the best approach. I don't particularly desire to see another meta shake-up.
Blatantly disregarding that even though Billy and bubba have damaging M2's they still have to play loops the same way a regular M1 does hence get screwed by MFT.
Blatantly disregarding that Ghostie is a *Pure M1* and he can be revealed by survivors hence nullifying his power.
Freddy and clown dont have their power always 100% up, hindering surivors, once again they are pure M1.
Singularity is at its core a pure M1 with a teleport ability.
All the ranged characters i've adressed in my previous post.
When it comes to pyramid head, blight,Wesker, Artist, etc *it is blatantly obvious that moving faster will make it easier to dodge* if speed wasn't important for dodging survivor mains wouldn't be up in arms against Blight's C33 , because you know, its *just 3% after all how bad can it be right?*
All in all, your entire post is disengenous and clearly shows you dont know how killers work. you're straightfaced saying wraith isn't an M1 killer... like jesus christ.
Theres no point in taking your opinions into consideration given that they are heavily biased and misinformed.
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@Nos37 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3527393#Comment_3527393
Iron Maiden does not reveal the survivors aura.
"Distortion fully deletes Lethal."
I wish it did. I cannot count how many times I spawn into a match next to someone who doesn't have Distortion and I get caught by the killer who comes toward me looking for the survivor I spawned next to. Distortion does not hide the aura of every single survivor.
Nobody claimed iron maiden revealed auras, its just part of the most popular aura build. *You know, a real world example*
Distortion does delete lethal. just because the killer happens to check your area first, doesn't mean it "didn't work".
Again, this post is just asking for distortion to either only regen tokens while in a chase, OR NOT regen while in a chase.
You'll still be able to hard counter lethal, but you'll have to put more effort into regening tokens, its a perfecly reasonable balance change.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3527355#Comment_3527355
It doesn't screw over 90% of the roster. Your arguments don't even factor in individual player skill, nor do they account for how each killer plays. I'm not going to rattle off how most of your list is just wrong.
"Individual player skill" is an irrelevant metric, nobody should have to be a 10k hour "I stream this game for a living" kind of killer just to be able to counter mid mmr survivors with MFT.
My list is accurate , but feel free to attempt to correct it, You saw the math, MFT actively screws 87.5% of killers and provides a relative soft counter via easier dodges against another 9.3%.
Thats well over 90% of killers being negatively impacted by MFT's existance, you cannot defend the perk, MFT needs to be gutted ,as soon as yesterday.
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@Vanishlord said:
I have been waiting for this chapter for what feels like forever can anyone give their opinions on recommending it or not?
Any advice is appreciated.
The big part of the chapter is essentially Xeno, Both sets of perks are relatively mid, with just the Pallet freeze trap for survivor being interesting yet not overpowered.
Now for Xeno, hes a mix between Demo's tunnels and Nemesis M2s BUT you can crawl around in the tunnels and change your "teleport" location while in the tunnels. The M2 is very similar to nemesis Tier 1 M2 but you get verticallity which allows you to hit survivors that crouch under windows and other places where nemi struggles.
With lethal persuer and BBQ you can start chases instantly from the get go, and then ping pong around survivors getting hookstates.
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@Nos37 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3527153#Comment_3527153
Perkless?
If the killer has 4 aura reading perks then the survivors will likely run out of Distortion tokens faster than they can regain them.
Bad enough that Hex: Undying eats Distortion tokens for breakfast and Eruption consumes TWO of them.
Lets go over the most common Aura build, according to Nightlight its BBQ, Lethal, Darkness and Iron maiden. this is clearly a huntress/Trickster Build, so 24m TR, 4.4 Killer.
Distortion fully deletes Lethal.
if distortion user is within 40m of the BBQ hook , they are likely regening a token WITHOUT spending the token.
Darkness revealed can only be used every 30s, a good portion of gens are not close enough to lockers to proc DR and as such very rarely consume a Distortion token, even IF it does proc, you still have 2 tokens spare, or 1 spare if Lethal was used and you didn't somehow regen it.
If the killer happens to check the gen where the distortion user was, the 24m TR in the worst possible case scenario grants you 5.45 seconds of token regen on gen check , and another 5.45 on exit , in the WORST CASE of a killer B-lining to the gen and B-lining away, you still regen close to HALF a token for essentially free.
Its very clear that distortion will for the most part, always provide a 1 perk full counter to aura builds. Not to mention out right deleting LP's main effect.
------
Again, making it so distortion requires active chase, OR not allowing it to regen while in active chase would be a very healthy nerf to the perk that doesn't "kill it" like every other distortion user is claiming.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3527081#Comment_3527081
Billy isn't really affected by MFT. I've played against really good Billy players who can curve at a 90 degree angle to get the down.
Legion was reworked to where getting a fifth feral frenzy hit downs the survivor. You ideally want to chain your feral frenzy hits to get that fifth hit, and yes it applies through the deep wound effect. Legion, much like Wraith, is less affected by MFT due to Feral Frenzy allowing Legion to bodyblock survivors.
Dredge stands no chance in a straight line, but at a loop? Dredge wins regardless of MFT. Don't forget that Dredge's remnant provides him with anti-loop.
Freddy has snares that provide the same amount of hindered as clown's bottles. Yes, survivors have to be in the dream state but the activation requirement for MFT is that survivors have to be injured.
Knight and Singularity I have no real opinion on as I don't see them often enough to make an accurate assessment.
Twins aren't really affected with Victor being significantly faster and Charlotte basically being an M1 killer. The few Twins players I do see get their downs with Victor.
MFT only really shines at loops, and Demo's Shred means Survivors probably aren't going to make that vault or pallet in time.
So, it's not quite half the killer roster affected by MFT.
Trapper - Fundamentally an M1 killer, no anti-loop, screwed over by MFT.
Wraith - Again, M1 killer, no anti-loop screwed over by MFT
Billy - Pseudo M1 killer since the power at loops is essentially worthless, screwed over by MFT.
Nurse - Teleport power can mitigate MFT.
Shape - M1 killer, screwed by MFT.
Hag - Pseudo M1 , 110% *very screwed by MFT*
Doctor - M1, screwed by MFT.
Huntress - 110 killer, While straight line chasing is not impacted by MFT, tall loops render huntress an M1 killer, and therefore she gets screwed over by MFT.
Bubba - Pseudo M1 , no anti-loop , screwed by MFT.
Freddy - M1 killer, weak anti-loop, screwed by MFT.
Pig - M1 killer screwed by MFT.
Clown - M1 killer, weak anti loop, screwed by MFT.
Spirit - 110 killer, Pseudo M1 , screwed my MFT.
Legion - M1 killer, screwed by MFT.
Plague - M1 killer for 99% of the game, screwed by MFT.
Ghostie - M1 killer, screwed by MFT.
Demo - Pseudo M1 , not as impacted in long loops / straight lines, but still screwed by MFT in normal tiles.
Oni - Simple M1 killer for over half the match, power still gets soft countered by MFT, killer is screwed by MFT.
Slinger - 110 killer , completely screwed in normal tiles by MFT, not impacted in straight line.
Pyramid - M1 at his core, M2's are easier to dodge when you move faster, screwed by MFT.
Blight - Rush power can mitigate MFT, mft still allows for easier dodging.
Twins - M1 at its core , Victor is easier to dodge when you move faster, screwed by MFT.
Trickster - Same as huntress and Slinger, screwed by MFT.
Nemesis - M1 at his core, power requires 3 hits to down, power a while back got buffed so the speed nemi moved was 100% while he has his whip out. MFT sends him to the pre-buff state, screwed by MFT.
Cenobite - At his core, still an M1 killer , screwed by MFT.
Artist - Power mitigates MFT , still easier to dodge crows with MFT.
Sadako - M1 killer, screwed by MFT.
Dredge - M1 killer, even with the remnant "anti loop" survivors can just hold W to the next loop and render it useless, screwed by MFT.
Wesker - Dash power mitigates MFT, MFT still allows for easier dodges since you move faster.
Knight - Core M1 , companions move at 102.5% (4.1m) MFT hard counters the power, screwed by MFT.
SM - At its core , an M1 killer but the passive haste from drones mitigates MFT , still somewhat screwed by MFT.
Singu - Core M1 , MFT renders the Purple Soma family addon (5% haste while overclocked but -20% duration) completely useless and a waste of an addon slot - screwed over by MFT.
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I consider "Pseudo M1s" killers that while having damaging M2's they still have to play loops the same way a regular M1 does. Bubba is a fine example
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Now percentages
Out of 32 killers 28 get screwed over hard by MFT. (87.5%)
Out of the remaining 4 killers, 3 are able to mitigate MFT, even though they still get minimally impacted by it. Namely Blight, Artist and wesker. (9.3%)
The only one that didn't feel MFT in any meaningful way is nurse... because she fundamentally breaks the game's mechanics to begin with. (3.125%)
How do you still stand here defending MFT when it completely screws over 90% of the killer roster with a straight face is beyond me.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526805#Comment_3526805
Ah right. Because distortion removes visions for all 4 players. Oh wait. It doesn't. It's as if distortion has 1/4th of the strength of killer's perk. Who would have thought. Still I am sure you won't see this because of bias
So you get proven wrong with Cold hard basic math, and still try to counter argue... and im the "biased" one?
Make that make sense cause it surely doesn't seem distortion isn't "1/4th of the strength" when a single perk can hard counter entire builds.
We're not talking about "countering" in the way that coulrophobia makes healing builds *less effective* we're talking about countering in the way that a killer bringing an aura build is effectively perkless if survivors bring distortion.
Again, this post is just asking for distortion tokens be a little bit harder to generate, either requiring active chase OR not generating while in active chase, distortion would still be strong without full hard countering aura builds.
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@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526852#Comment_3526852
My math is wrong in the original comment but the difference is negligible.
Survivors run at a base of 4.0m/s. To run 60m it takes 15 seconds.
Survivors with MFT move at 4.12m/s. To run 60m it now takes roughly 14.56 seconds.
Even in smaller numbers, to run 8m with MFT it'll take 1.94 seconds.
Of course tiles aren't 60m apart but survivots are still going to loop you the same without the 3% haste.
Straight line chase math is not the relevant portion.
The problem lies on the fact that survivors with MFT , every 5 seconds are 0.6 meters ahead of where they would be otherwise.
a lap around a filler tile is easily 4-5 seconds, with other structures being more, being robbed of a hit because "3% goes brr" is what feels so extremely cheap about it.
This is an example clip : https://streamable.com/whcaot over the course of 10 seconds, the ada was 1.2 meters ahead thanks to MFT, the 3% haste was enough to cause an underserved chase extention while robbing the killer of a hit.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526689#Comment_3526689
As for lightborn vs distortion perk argument - Blast mine, residual manifest, flashbang are not perks?
As for reason for tokens - it forces survivor to be close to killer to recharge them. Otherwise you could be hidden in a corner of a map and hold the game hostage for an hour without a chance to counter that.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526692#Comment_3526692
NWO is a clutch of an aura perk. I know, because I used it a lot too. IMO it's the main reason why so many distortions are in game now (disregarding overall perk nerf that happened over several patches now).
You're trying to compare a killer wasting 1/4th (25%) of their perk slots to counter 1/16 perks (6.25%) (1/20 (5%) if you consider flashlights / Items as pseudoperks) to a survivors "wasting" 1/16th of their perks and being able to counter 25-100% of a killer's build. Mathematically speaking distortion is 4-5x better than lightborn in terms of value.
Not to mention most times lightborn is brought is against flashlights, and in that case survivors are free to exchange their pseudoperk for a toolbox / medkit *while in the match*
Distortion token generation requiring active chase, OR NOT being able to regen while in chase would be a fine enough balance change that wouldn't "kill the perk"
You'd still get your Anti-Lethal value , and 2 extra tokens for free.
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@skylustv said:
I already talked about this before, nothing changed. They should allow us to see the names at least after the match ends. So we can open their profiles.
And what would be the point of that? so you can leave a "-rep killer killed me" comment on their profile?
Anon mode is fine as is.
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Nah man, nerfs based solely on playing with friends is quite frankly dumb.
A more fair approach would be to let killers know if they are up against a SWF or not so they can make the conscious decision of accepting a more "competitive" match or wait a bit longer for a casual match.
The concept of SWF is fine, what isn't fine is the killer being forced to take on a bully squad or a speedrun match.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526319#Comment_3526319
Who counts hooks? I said 50% kill rate. Considering killer plays 4 games at the same time 50% kill rate is 50% win rate (or 2 kills on average game). That can be by 6 hooks, 10 hooks, 2 hooks or even 0 hooks. Because hooks don't matter in the end.
Chess merchant is survivor's fault? Same as it was survivor's fault when best team in the world couldn't finish the game before 55 minutes? So much survivor's fault..... THAT IS MAKING survivor's games miserable btw.
You saying SWF = ######### speaks volumes about you too. And you are the one talking about bias.
Also in 1400 games - you are bound to happen to get insane team. And yet... The streak is going on....
50% Killrate is NOT 50% winrate, its literally just 2 people dead per game which is equivalent to 6 hooks. its a tie that makes the DESIGNATED power role feel weak , not to mention potentially having 2 people that didn't even get to interact with the killer and just held M1 on gens. *Surely you're smart enough to understand this isn't ideal*
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Again, if you as a team of 4, refuse to stick the gens thats a you problem, the killer is doing its job of preventing you from escaping.
you bring up the "best team in the world 55 minute game" but refuse to acknowledge they played hyper safe and dipped from the gen as soon as they heard the TR. The more concerning stat is that 4 gens popped in 4:43. which means a SWF while just playing normally, would be almost as fast as the best possible solo Q speedrunner.
Killers should be able to know they are up against a SWF in order to dodge matches where nobody actually plays the game.