WilliamSN
WilliamSN
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542242#Comment_3542242
You're acting like pressing A or D is a qte you instantly pass or fail. I'm telling you that it takes time to move to dodge, which also depends on whether the killer offset their attack in anticipation. for the record i'm fine with it not being reactable, i'm just being honest about it. You are almost always making a read.
survivors move at 4m per second (0.004m per milisecond), if you react in the average human time (0.250 for visual, 0.170 for audio) You'll be left with either :
0.600 - 0.250 = 0.350
0.600 - 0.170 = 0.430
0.004m x 0.350s = 1.4 meters of dodge range for visual
0.004m x 0.430 = 1.72 meters of dodge range for audio
Dodging the tail is very well feasible even by the most average of a person.
for visualization purposes , if Im not mistaken the width of a DBD pallet is around 0.6m - 0.8m so thats enough distance to run across atleast 2 pallets.
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The mere existance DH on reaction to M1 is enough of a proof of concept that people can react to an attack with a longer time to hit.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542231#Comment_3542231
50 ping is very unrealistic for the majority of players. People are frequently 100+. you also still arent accounting for travel time with said sidestep. This is all coming from a fighting game player, we call them "hard to reactable" when they should be reactable on paper, but not in practice. Its a very common scenario to have mixups where things only work online and not offline due to the difference.
Read the whole post.
You'd need 200 ping to lose 0.1s, hence turning the 0.6 to 0.5 to react, 0.5 seconds is more than enough to dodge.
And as i've said previously, theres no "acceleration" to take into account when you're already moving.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542194#Comment_3542194
latency means what you are seeing is not the same timing as your opponent's side. That means that the charge time is actually less visually, since it is playing catchup on your screen. As for acceleration, yes, it takes time to move out of the way. You can only mitigate it by wiggling while running, which is a predictive movement which you then use to commit to a hard read, not a reaction.
for example If you have 50 ping, it takes the server 25ms to send you the "display xeno lifting his tail" packet. (50 ping is the entire roundtrip ; you send a packet and server sends a packet back confirming the reception, to receive the reactable information you only need the server to send you the packet, hence only half the "trip" is done).
even IF you want to factor latency, at 50 ping at most theres a 0.025s reduction in "reactable range", in total you'd still have 0.597.5 seconds to react.
The microseconds that latency reduces is a non-factor in normal gameplay, your ping would need to be at 200 to lose 0.100s of reaction time , but at that high ping its common sense that you shouldn't be playing to begin with + 0.4s is still enough time for a normal person to almost react 2x to the tail visually going up and pressing A OR D.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542169#Comment_3542169
you aren't factoring latency nor movement acceleration to dodge, both of which are non-zero values.
Explain how you think "latency" works.
"Acceleration" is only a factor if you're on a full standstill, which if you're in a chase.. you're not standing still...
@Venusa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542169#Comment_3542169
does your hitbox immediately shift to another frame when you press A or D? gosh at least make it make sense if you don't have a concrete argument.
Your hitbox does move with your inputs, otherwise it would legitimately make no sense.
and before you mention vault hitboxes, Vaults are an entirely different subject when it comes to hitboxes because the game just "Teleports" your hitbox from one side to the other nothing to do with how they regularly work.
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you "can't react in 0.6s" even though DH on reaction to M1 was and still is a thing, the average human takes 0.25 for visual and 0.17 for audio to react to an input.
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@Venusa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542035#Comment_3542035
They didn't react. They predicted where he would be hitting since killers usually assume you're going to go through the pallet.
You really can't differentiate that?
@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542035#Comment_3542035
Imagine thinking you had a gotcha! and were like totally wrong. That player predicted the attack. They didn’t react-dodge it. Lol.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542035#Comment_3542035
This is the literal clearest prediction I've ever seen.
Tail goes up to attack on the first screenshot, dude starts dodging on the 2nd SC as indicated by the head starting to turn.
If after 2 weeks of xeno being in DBD you still don't grasp that the tail going up + the whoosh sound IS the cue, then you have undeniable skill issue.
All in all don't be blatantly lying to spin a narrative that isn't true.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541860#Comment_3541860
You actually cannot dodge him on reaction. His attack charges and moves too quickly for people to react to
I guess this person just happens to be genetically enhanced...
https://clips.twitch.tv/ObservantDarlingStarlingGrammarKing-j--xnudPrIw34ZG1
0.2 charge + 0.4 to hit is 0.6s in total, if you can't react in time thats a severe skill issue.
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@Mr_pig2099 said:
i really feel that survivors got nerfed and killers just got buffed really really buffed. I don't believe the devs don't know this... and now flashlights are unusable. first it was "oh survivors are healing too much so lets nerf the heal" then second it was "of the vaults are OP for survivors let's make all vaults equal" and now "oh flashlights are too much lets turn them off for now and think of a way to nerf them to make them unusable"... this game is just taking a lot away from survivors that its not fun anymore.
killers are just getting faster and faster while survivors are getting slower and slower. Maps are really small and too much collision for survivors to even loop. a lot of the "random" placements really feel like a plus for killers and really bad for survivors.
even the costumes are dumb. they make costumes for killers that blend in with almost any map and survivors are bright and colorful like a freaking beacon.
i have been a long time fan but its getting to a point where i just want to quit and play something else. i really really regret investing time and money in this game..
oh and to those of you that read this and say to just run killer understand that its really just not my cup of tea... i didnt start playing DBD to run killer and those that do more power to you (just stop cheating - killers are OP and a lot of you still run wall hacks freaking losers) and dont get me started on killers running Ceno and then just face camps what a dumb way to play Ceno....
i know this is a lengthy rant but i really wish they balance out this game again it was a lot more fun when survivors at least had a 50% chance of escaping.
1 - Survivors are getting nerfed because for the longest of times they were in a completely broken state.
From infinites to being able to full heal while the killer is still in the wipe animation,to flashlights instablinding (Funny story involving the game director on this one) to DH for distance, to COH teamwide fast Selfcare, Now the injured meta where because of some questionable BHVR balancing decisions people are faster while injured.
2 - The vault "fix" actually made the vaults extremely broken in the survivors favour by instantly teleporting the hitbox 2-3 meters forward as soon as you made contact with the vault, and by all intents and purposes if your physical arm and shoulder is still touching the vault / Within reach you should be hittable + the descrepancy in male v female vault distance.
3 - Flashlights got disabled because of the noclip exploit not because they are "OP".
4 - A concerningly high portion of maps are extremely safe for survivors , BHVR has been releasing more balanced maps like Dvarka and Nostromo, aswell as fixing previous problem maps but thats just a small % of the pool , heres a video example : https://youtu.be/BjtFS6cpttk?si=xwhlQ0EKz1wNFtUx&t=235
5 - A balanced game is a close game not just escapes and Kills, The game is designed around a 62% killrate, so about 7-8 hooks. so essentially, 2 dead + 1 hook , or 1 dead + 2 deathhooks , or 4 deathhooks, etc. (Stats have shown that the killrates across the board have dropped to low 50s high 40s, so the notion that the killer role is "OP" is fundamentally wrong)
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@Ayodam said:
Since when is playing with one health state not a risk? It’s risky even if you’re facing a bad killer.
One healthstate stops being risky once being injured grants you permanent buffs to basekit abilities + carrying a medkit allows you to 99 a heal, so you get your benefits without the downside.
Not to mention, killers getting screwed over for using their powers...
Plague's vomit? directly buffs survivors.
Legion? Again power buffs survivors.
Chainsaw killers? Might aswell stay injured if you're getting 1 hit'd anyway and you're harder to catch while injured...
Ghostface? Again if you're going to be oneshotted might aswell remain injured.
etc etc.
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A fair fix for MFT+Resi would be a 30-45s window where the perk effects are active, after that you have to heal up to get them back, you get the chase benefits but you aren't permanentely buffed.
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@Mr_pig2099 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541562#Comment_3541562
the premise of nerfing a strong perk from survivors but not from killers is not okay - not on a literal sense where once you have a survivor perk nerfed you SHOULD nerf a Killer perk.
I lean more towards balance so what you said here:
"Then, we get an update that makes just one change, and that change makes one survivor perk insanely overpowered. Just borderline game breaking. Nothing else is affected."
is not okay for me as well. why even bother putting out that update if its not going to be fun on both sides.
my reason for saying the "why nerf survivor and not nerf killer" is that these past few patches have been nothing but nerfs for survivors. and even when survivors catch a break like the vault distance for fast vauits - not only did they take it back but even nerfed it to the point that fast vaults feel the same as medium vaults.
i dont know what i did or say for you to invalidate my opinion but if this is how the community on DBD is then i guess my opinion as a player does not matter.
I AM WRONG AND YOU ARE RIGHT. and any of my opinions should be deleted and removed as the opinion that matters here is yours and no one elses.
Your opinion is getting dismissed because its not an opinion... its just pure survivor bias.
MFT is beyond busted , this is undeniable, the perk needs to be nerfed as soon as yesterday.
It doesn't mean that in order to nerf MFT, you have to gut a killer perk for the game to be "balanced" , the busted thing gets fixed and the game is balanced.
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Also survivors are getting nerfed recently because for the longest of times survivors have been in an overpowered state... all the way from sub 1s healing, to DH for distance, to COH infinite self fast heals, guaranteed locker saves, BNP's insta repairing a gen, flashlights insta blinding (Funny story involving the actual DBD game director on this one.) etc etc.
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@antag0nisticw0mble said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541536#Comment_3541536
Yet nowhere to hide literally has no cooldown
Most info perks on killer don't have a cooldown. But you're complaining about 2 perks that counter because people want to crutch their build so heavily on constantly knowing survivors locations at all times.
If there weren't counters in the game it wouldn't be asymetrical. But I guess you just want survivors to go point at hook for you.
Nowhere to hide is literally tied to gens... no gen progress = no NWTH, kicked the gen already? can't use NWTH.
Perks dont need a physical timer to have a "cooldown", BBQ's cooldown is the chase+hook, NWTH is tied to gens, Awakened awareness tied to chase+Pickups , SH:Floods tied to hooking+Unhooking.
Dont be disengenous trying to claim "killer perks have no cooldowns" and reduce the ad hominems in your arguments.
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@antag0nisticw0mble said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541461#Comment_3541461
A theoretical infinite but with perks like monitor and abuse this can be reduced. Stealth killers remove it completely.
Scratched myers and wraith with iri addon can eat your tokens in seconds and you'll never get them back.
Even a smart skull merchant can stop you getting back tokens by abusing her drones to remove her terror radius.
Doctor has addons to reduce his terror radius while static blast is on cooldown.
There are always ways around distortion. But your entire kit shouldn't be focused around one perk type anyways.
Also UW can trigger several times making the survivor scream it is the blindness effect that only triggers once.
Lethal and BBQ is already 2 perks, 50% of a loadout prone to being deleted by Distortion just existing, if I have to equip a THIRD aura perk just to burn trough tokens, or play a specific killer to once again burn trough tokens, then the perk isn't healthy.
Monitor and abuse is quite frankly, a horrible perk so we're not even going to consider that.
And again, UW triggers once per survivor per activation.
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@antag0nisticw0mble said:
Oh I'm sorry calm spirit counters killers constantly abusing ultimate weapon. Which bare in mind effectively has 0 cooldown. It's active for 30s and it's cooldown is 30s. so if you open a locker every 30s ITS ALWAYS ACTIVE.
Calm spirit does NOT counter doctor. Just because someone doesn't scream it still prevents them using an item or performing an action if they are shocked.
Distortion has a MAXIMUM of 3 stacks not 4 so I have no idea where you got that number from. Lethal persuer consumes 1 stack. Eruption consumes 2 stacks if you use lethal, Aliens new addons consume 2 stacks.
Killers complain that distortion/calm spirit/exhaustion perks are crutches.
Can't the same be said for your 1 hit down perks/addons, Aura stacking, Gen regression stacking, Hook camping, Devs holding your hand with bugged fast vaults that count as medium when it comes to your hitbox and bloodlust because you don't want to break a pallet.
Both sides have tools to aid them. Survivors have been hurt a lot more than killers lately when it comes to nerfs. Survivors had the healing speeds completely changed but devs made no changes to your slowdowns on healing meaning it could take almost 3 minutes to heal someone with the correct build.
Please don't cry about a perk if your entire kit relies on you basically having wallhacks or handholding you're playing the game wrong and need to have more variety in your build.
It's supposed to be an asymetrical game. Not a one sided game.
And I'm not even going to go there with the camping hooks, tunnelling and slugging for 4k crap that's going on.
The lengths yall go and still end up being objectively wrong.
UW triggers once per activation per survivor, if you find someone imediately with UW then it effectively has a 60s cooldown. on the opposite end, if you find someone as UW is running out, you still get a 30s CD. So UW CD is anywhere between 60s to 30s + Walk to locker time.
Distortion has a theoretical INFINITE number of stacks because of the regen mechanic not just 3.
If survivors are getting nerfed harder it literally just indicates they were too strong to begin with, your logic is like claiming that since nurse got nerfed it means trapper is overpowered... which is just ridiculous.
Because the game ISN'T meant to be one sided that is why perks like distortion and Calm Spirit that effectively DELETE another players perks should be looked at.
All in all, Drop the blatantly and horrendously biased arguments.
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The singularity issue isn't much on the biopod placements but more on how easy the EMPs are to get, how abundant they are and how ridiculously strong they are.
Grab an EMP, another one starts printing in its place, hold the EMP until you're gooped , pop EMP and remove goop + disable the biopods within your zipcode , go grab the EMP that just finished autoprinting, rinse and repeat.
Singularity just feels like a glorified M1 killer with a CCTV system.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541205#Comment_3541205
So survivor just has to know and be able to get it in 250ms - lags and - actual movement time and that's fair, but killer's 400ms - 0 is barely enough. U don't need to say anything more. U have just proven my point
https://clips.twitch.tv/ObservantDarlingStarlingGrammarKing-j--xnudPrIw34ZG1
250ms is more than enough has proven by *actual players* , your lag doesn't and shouldn't be factured into how long of a delay an attack needs to be, thats a you problem.
Again, Im going to say it again because it seems you dont read enough.
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Theres an actual *thought process* and multiple actions that the xeno player has to do in order to destroy a turret without being knocked out, so the theoretical 400ms window of error is indeed fair and short enough.
Same thing for the 250ms to dodge the tail, you're given 250ms to decide if you want to press A or D.
The timeframes are not comparable 1:1 because of these inherent differences in what is required of you to do within each frame.
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@Ni7rogen said:
There's no fun by removing counters, it sounds silly, specially considering Calm Spirit is too situational and while Distortion is quite great but not THAT gamebreaking as people want to try it to sell...
Calm Spirit eliminates the effect of screaming, realistically, this only messes up against Doctor, Ultimate Weapon, Infectious Fright, Face the Darkness and Pain Resonance.
Distortion eliminates the aura reading, which is really powerful, yet, it's very, very variable, first of all, any kind of regen is heavily mitigated by Oblivious or Stealthy, second, some aura reading perks that have little to no cooldown ends up eating tokens, Nurse's Calling and Nowhere to Hide are the perfect example.
And in the same token, theres no fun in having your entire build deleted because someone brought the counterperk.
Hence why balance is required.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540533#Comment_3540533
So much inconsistency xD So move the sound cue to survivors at the beginning of M2?
So how can be 250ms long enough and get good while 400ms is just not enough and learn to place turrets? You even have time overlap of 150ms that just screams at your double standards :D Like this is comical at this moment :D
250ms is more than enough to react on sight as proven by multiple people, but here, take a refresher :
https://clips.twitch.tv/ObservantDarlingStarlingGrammarKing-j--xnudPrIw34ZG1
You're legitimately forgetting that Xeno v turret isn't just "Press M2 when screen goes burn", Its more akin to "OH DAMN A TURRET WHERE IS IT? OH TO MY LEFT , FLICK MOUSE TO TURRET AND PRAY I HAVE MY IMAGINARY CROSSHAIR ON IT, CLICK M2!"
Theres an actual *thought process* and multiple actions that the xeno player has to do in order to destroy a turret without being knocked out, so the theoretical 400ms window of error is indeed fair and short enough.
Same thing for the 250ms to dodge the tail, you're given 250ms to decide if you want to press A or D.
The timeframes are not comparable 1:1 because of these inherent differences in what is required of you to do within each frame.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540538#Comment_3540538
it's false equivalency ONLY because it does not suite your narrative.
The same thing you did in last thread. 250ms is enough time (latency included) to dodge while 400ms is barely enough to destroy a turret.
Anything that suits my needs is fine and everything that does not is some kind of fallacy or something. 100% objective view on things.
More to the topic - it does not counter lethal, because 2s longer still stands - if u use 2+ aura perks, you can eat thru tokens and have longer aura. There. Same "counter" as u can already heal in killer's TR... Similar for BBQ - take mirror meyers and after 3rd hook there's no distortion whasoever. Reminds me of reactive healing and hemorrage. But there's absolutely some kind of fallacy hidden out there ;)
Lethal is fully deleted by Distortion, you CANNOT debate on this.
Bringing Lethal+BBQ is 2 aura perks, and neither will proc on a distortion user because
A - You start with 3 tokens -1 for lethal, so you still get 2 get outta jail free cards for when your TM's get hooked.
B - The token regen is so lenient and so quick (30s in the TR) that you can realistically always have ATLEAST 1 token up for every of the 9 possible BBQ Procs (And yes possible is the right word because if you're within 40m of the hook, you wouldn't lose a token either way).
C - If the kilers only option to get value out of his remaining aura perks(because lethal got deleted straight up) is to bring a THIRD aura perk, then theres an undeniable problem.
D - If it requires a killer that can burn tokens just by pressing M2 for the aura build to be useful, then again, undeniable problem. (Even then, Lethal would get deleted, once again by distortion).
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@Annso_x said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540551#Comment_3540551
Genuinely asking, are you aware that calm spirit deletes the screams only ? Like unless I'm not up to date it doesn't delete or counter any perk or power effects besides the scream sound (except for that one Cage perk I think), it doesn't even counter the tracking effect because the scream bubble still reveals the survivor's position. It just means the killer has to look around (like for auras) instead of relying mostly on sound.
Calm spirit doesn't delete any perk effect, it just makes screaming perks more inconvenient to use (and is still a terrible perk).
As for distortion, I think forbidding it to gain tokens while in chase is a bad idea because it would encourage survivors to avoid the killer and play full stealthy. I think making survivors gaining tokens in chase only would actually be a better idea, it means survivors who use it to avoid the killer would be forced to interact with them to get their tokens back.
Calm spirit deletes the bubble effect, hence fully deleting any scream based perk, like Face the darkness, Infectious fright , UW, etc.
https://youtu.be/AvuLKM1GEQw?si=kI2Js26oiE7Nr2o6&t=12
CS providing full unlimited deletion of all scream based perks + doctors effects is ridiculous.
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@CatnipLove said:
If anything UW should have a token system. You get the Doctor's strongest ability for the cost of one perk. That's one hell of a crutch. You're not entitled to be told exact where players are just cos you run one perk if there's no solid counter to it.
A token system would completely gut CS, and players know this. You guys just don't want anyone to run the perk, so you can play EZ mode.
Also, stop calling CS "unhealthy". What you mean is, there's a niche perk that counters a new perk BHVR released that makes your matches a hell of a lot easier and you want less people to run it.
That fact that CS is now a perk that needs to be destroyed shows just how stupid UW is. CS is not the problem, UW is.
Please Make a valid argument as to how a perk that showcases the *general direction* the survivors are once upon activation is "overpowered".
Also please come up with a valid argument as to why allowing perks to full on permanently delete another players build/Perks is fair and balanced.
Also please suggest a killer build that doesn't include Any tracking(Aura/Screams) / Gen Regression and is on the same strength level of MFT+Resi+WOO+Hope/Adren, Surprise me with viable builds for a couple of characters.
I'll wait.
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@altruistic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541023#Comment_3541023
https://clips.twitch.tv/ObservantDarlingStarlingGrammarKing-j--xnudPrIw34ZG1
Thats 20ish ping. I am curious what exactly I should have done differently there?
Like others have mentioned, that was the acidic blood iri Add-on, not a regular M1/M2.
Also as a sidenote, that clip clearly shows that dodging the tail on reaction is very feasible, so I'll take the liberty of saving that for future references incase someone claims the tail is "undodgeable"
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@mecca said:
So there is no secret that it didn't take long for flashlights to be killswitched. Why is Blight and Skull Merchant not killswitched?
Just in case killer mains try to justify that these killers are just perfectly fine, Blight has an exploit that is not intended and can be used for an extreme unfair advantage, especially when the blight player knows how to abuse it. Skull Merchant can hold a game hostage for an hour as long as survivors are willing to stay in the match and not eat a penalty.
Skull Merchant should be kill switched.
We've reached a point of people trying to defend the noclip exploit that you're actively trying to compare blight hugtech that just lets you slide against walls to survivors being able to noclip into a locker and be invincible+ hold game hostage.
On the topic of SM, the game lasts long because both sides are playing extremely passive , killer wants to defend her objective and survivors are too afraid of committing to the gens... you have 4 people for 3 gens, if you start working away at all 3 eventually you will break the 3 gen in in about 5-6 minutes at maximum
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540847#Comment_3540847
yes they are if your entire build consist on tracking perks and nothing else. you put all your egg in one basket. there is nothing to change, you have to learn to play killer without tracking perks.
in some sense, survivors are countering your crutch tracking perks if you cannot win without them.
Killer brings an aura build... survivors think they are entitled to delete it with distortion...
Killers bring gen regression, yall complain about being 3 genned....
Killer brings anti-heal, yall demand sloppy gets nerfed...
Be real here, what perks are killers allowed to play with anymore?
These takes of " haha i deserve to be able to make you perkless!!!" Are sickeningly biased.
A legitimately healthy suggestion that lets both players use their perks gets shutdown by resident survivor mains that cannot fathom that the killer should also get to use the perks he brought into the match.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540816#Comment_3540816
killer also gets to use his perks a good portion of time.
killer get to use the perk a good portion of the time = ineffective perk. the perk are not doing what you expect them to be countering. there is no point in using the perk if your not protected from very things that your equipping the perk in the first place.
your not entitled to get 100% value on every single time the perk triggers, sometimes survivor gets to counter your perk and your forced to try to win without that perk.
And in the same token you're also not entitled to fully delete an entire killer's build / Perks, so where do we stand?
Obviously the only viable solution is to split the difference and go with my original suggestion, Token based perks and tokens only regen either in chase or out of chase inside the TR.
Survivors get value from their perks, killer gets value out of his perks.
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@Kaitsja said:
Something people in this thread seem to be forgetting is that if MFT loses the haste, the perk becomes useless. We then rotate back to SB/Lithe/DH. Then those get complained about ad nauseum.
Why are people running MFT+Resilience? Because healing feels bad, and pointless. CoH gutted. Self-care nerfed. Medkits nerfed. I won't argue that CoH needed to be nerfed, because it was just way too strong with the values it had at the time. To completely gut it the way they did, however, was completely unnecessary and lazy.
The devs have made it quite clear they want to avoid stale metas, but that's what you get if you keep nerfing every strong perk into the ground. This is true for both survivors and killers.
Did Xeno really need to release with (yet another) aura reading perk? Was Rapid Brutality really the right call? Why couldn't we have seen a perk that inflicts Exhausted on a basic attack, like Sloppy does with Mangled and Hemmorhage?
it literally makes no sense for perks to permanentely buff survivors because they got injured... mft doesn't need to "lose the haste" it just needs to lose the permanent effect.
Give both Resi and MFT a 45s durating after being injured and they would be properly balanced perks, want the effects for next chase? you better heal up.
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I've already mentioned it in a similar thread, but here it goes.
Perks being able to essentially delete another players build is fundamentally unhealthy.
If you bring distortion you're able to just fully delete Lethal and BBQ, and mitigate every other aura perk unless the killer brings a 4th perk or addon dedicated to token burning like Gearhead , Plague's iri addon, Tricksters purple addon, etc etc.
Calm spirit is even worse because theres absolutely no tokens to burn trough and you get get your scream perk / Build fully deleted the entire game rendering you perkless.
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The only solution to this would be to make them both token based, BUT the only way to get tokens is to either be *IN chase* OR only when you're in the TR but *OUT of chase* that way survivors would still get the effects a good portion of the time and killer also gets to use his perks a good portion of time.
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@Vegeta1345 said:
Sometimes when players play the game our internet may go out and we get punished for it. AS it happened to me tonight I got hit with a 1hr penalty. Its wrong and not right for people that work and want to relax and have fun. Having the option on support site and then Auto E-mail saying nothing can be done since its an automated system well it needs to be removed then. Shorten the penalties down or remove it. Sorry my internet for once crashed while streaming tonight. Its there on stream do the point my internet crashed. This system is pointless for acutal players playing. We should not get punished for something out of our control. Remove the automated system or have a way to remove the penalty on the account for reasons such as I stated above.
1 DC gets you a minute,
2 DC = 5 Minutes
3 DC = 15
4 DC = 30
5 DC = 1h
If you've managed to lose internet 5 times in a day, you should consider contacting your ISP or swap companies, you shouldn't be complaining that BHVR doesn't allow you to ruin multiple matches thanks to your spotty internet.
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For those wondering, im pretty sure this is what OP is talking about : https://streamable.com/8vmrli
The Hay piles and haybales are special offenders of the Borgo Broken hitbox phenomenon, getting tail hits that clear as day should have went over the obstacle stuck on air molecules is not fun.
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@Annso_x said:
No idea if it's an unpopular opinion but I think not being able to counter your opponent's perks would be boring, and I fail to understand why someone would want it (unless of course they only want this for their opponent(s), but surely that's not what's happening here)
There's a difference between "countering" and "deleting"
Blood echo and fear monger both counter exhaustion perks, but you still get to use them just less often.
On the other hand perks like Calm spirit just outright delete scream based perks.
The latter is fundamentally unhealthy as a "counter"
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540522#Comment_3540522
So it works in some specific cases on some specific maps under some specific occasions. Sounds a lot like distortion that works only if killer has TR and killer does not have too many aura reading perks...
False equivalency.
Under no pretense will lethal work trough distortion, BBQ is also full hard countered whole match and the only option is to give up extra perk slots just to burn trough tokens in hopes of being able to use your other auras.
CS? Under absolutely no pretense will scream perks work against a CS user. It even actively counters spies.
Point still stands , sloppy doesn't delete healing perks , unlike distortion and CS deleting aura and scream perks.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540490#Comment_3540490
Ok then. If you have such an inhuman reflections, then you will not have problem with turrets will get -300ms time to get xeno out of power - because same argument. Do that and we are perfectly fine with this killer
By default xeno takes 0.2s to windup and 0.4 to hit. So already thats 0.6s that you cannot "improve on" put in a reaction time of 0.17 for audio and you have a minimum reaction time of 0.77s
If you factor in another 0.2 - 0.3 for actually locating the turret , that jumps to 0.97 or 1.07.
Turrets take 1.5 seconds to remove crawler mode, so xeno has effectively a 0.400 ms window of error, which can be shortened or outright deleted if the turrets are well placed.
Of course, if you place the turrets out in the open that window of error is going to double.
In conclusion, buffing turrets is not feasible just learn to place your turrets right.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540487#Comment_3540487
Yes. And you always heal within 32m of killer. Because that's intelligent thing to do. Like I said - the perk hard-counters reactive healing (and makes solidarity a lot less useful because it takes time until you can start to heal other teammate)
You act as if multi level maps dont exist.
Someone going down on the top floor is highly likely to be in 32m range of someone else when it comes to the game /RPD/ haddonfield houses/GOJ house , or just the plain old "healing under hook" strat.
Point is, the 50% still triggers, if you get value out of it its entirely up to you, even just going down normally would "counter reactive healing "
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540410#Comment_3540410
Dude... look at the name of that Claudette. It wasn't luck. I heard the audio cue, I know the timing from using the attack myself, I started turning and when I knew the tail was coming I got to the side. And I just did it again in another game that if I would know you would keep with that, I would also had recorded for you to see.
I guess you don't play fighting games, where you have a window of 15 frames (0.25 seconds, way low of the tail attack taking in count charge plus attack window) to punish someone from making a mistake and sometimes you need to do frame perfect inputs to do combos.
It is completely possible to dodge the tail attack and you only need to get the timing right. It is undeniable fact with video evidence for it. That, or maybe me and the others that do it can see the future and that's why we are able to predict when it is coming, who knows.
Yeah , everytime i read "tail is too fast , nerf pls" posts i wonder if survivors measure their reaction time with a calander. 0.250 ms is more than enough time for a normal person to almost react *twice* to the audio cue.
Average human reaction to audio is 0.170, a normal gamer is likely in the 0.100 ms.
I also have good enough memory to recall survivors DHing on reaction to M1s and those are considerably faster than xenos tail.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540472#Comment_3540472
I was specifically talking about reactive healing. That perk IS HARD COUNTERED by sloppy (specifically by hemorrage) - because it does NOTHING if killer has the perk, because your progress gets immediatelly deleted. That's a hard counter in my book
Reactive healing gives you instant 50% heal progress if youre within 32m of another person going down.
You lose 7% a second from hemmorage, so it takes you roughly 7 seconds to lose the entire bonus.
However, if you're currently being healed the 50% still kicks in and finishes up your heal, or you get a flat +50%
Like i said, sloppy just mitigates the perk, it doesn't prevent the 50% from activating.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540424#Comment_3540424
You can't realistically swap item (chests are really bad and are throwing so while u technically can, in practice you are helping killer this way). Also there are more perks like this - nerf sloppy butcher as it hard-counters reactive healing and solidarity.
Should I bring more examples where you will be unhappy just because it nerfs killers instead of survivors?
I think you're misunderstanding what a hard counter is...
Sloppy butcher doesn't delete healing perks, it just makes them *harder* to use and lowers their potential effeciency.
Like sure, sloppy butcher makes self care take longer to heal, but it doesn't delete the perk outright.
Now compare it to distortion and CS...
Distortion outright deletes lethal pursuer, also deletes BBQ and chili because you're very likely to regen enough tokens to last you the whole match. (Starts with 3/9 , if lethal is brought 2/9).
And severely mitigates all other aura perks.
CS just outright deletes screaming perks permanently, infectious? Dead. UW? dead. Hex:face the darkness? Dead. Iron maiden? Severely mitigated. Make your choice? Severely mitigated. Deathbound? Dead.
Hard to justify the balance of these 2 perks being able to delete a good portion of killer perks.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540403#Comment_3540403
At least we can agree on some things.
And yes - this is the case right now. There's a video by someone (sorry, I can't remember who tried it) where survivor fast vaulted and waited on a spot for a few seconds (to make sure no lags are present) and still got hit.
I am also of opinion to make lags not favor lagging-person, but instead split the difference (meaning let server "hold world state" and let server decide what is and what isn't a hit). That's just mi opinion though.
But I will grant u one thing back - patch before last patch vaults were indeed broken and it was unfair towards killers
Network wise "splitting the difference " is not feasible.
https://youtu.be/6EwaW2iz4iA?si=89MAZBiaf0Ia2gaCthis video is about csgo , but it explains how network / lag compensation works.
The conclusion is that the server has to favor the "hitter" otherwise it would look extremely weird for the hit / shot to go trough a person and do no damage, couple that with dbd hitboxes being mismatched with the character (they are just big standing cilinders)
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540409#Comment_3540409
It's not a strawman. The title of this whole topic is literally Remove/Rework perks that counter a handful of perks. So is it that off-topic to talk about perk that counter handful of items? But nice attempt to sidetrack the discussion
Yes because they are not even comparable, lightborn countering an item you can swap out midmatch is not on the same level as distortion and CS rendering a killer perkless, or in the case of doctor , CS deletes his built in static blast tracking abilities.
For it to be comparable killers need the option to swap out perks and killer midmatch and that just isn't reasonable to implement.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540388#Comment_3540388
Oh, I expect if someone pretends to be farming for their difficult Archive-Challenge, that I wont be hooked the third time. I am not farming anymore, I just complete Gens and be out of the game. Same with exploiters - they are not my problem, being a good person before did not help me, so I wont do it anymore. So I do Gens and the Killer should have fun being hold hostage by some weirdo in a locker.
But overall, the problem does not really come up anyway. People saying here that they got 10 games in a row with SWFs who bring Coins to get Flashlights are just lying. I did not get a single exploiter on Sunday and I did not get a single Survivor who tried to get Flashlights on Monday.
But I am probably the odd case again, as usual. :)
Say it with your chest man.
"I expect killers to let me escape because i was a nice person for 10 seconds"
Atleast own up to the entitlement.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540253#Comment_3540253
Ok. So hide lobby - flashlights are common already so why should killer see survivor items - he gets value from it anyway? Also make lightborn token-based and make it recharge slowly or give it considerable downside like distortion/calm spirit.
At least be consistent with your reasoning. Your version even if stronger "is fine". Survivor version even if conditional and with less informed decision "absolutely needs nerfs"
Nobody mentioned lightborn, but when it comes to lightborn its main purpose is to counter an item... items that you can swap out midmatch (not to mention items being essentially 5th perks)
The equivalent would be killers being able to swap out perks midmatch as soon as they detect distortion or CS.
Anyway, nice attempt at a strawman.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540248#Comment_3540248
1, that wasn't what I was talking about. I was talking about finishing FAST vault and still being hittable (which is not intended - this should be the main difference between mid and fast vault) - also if they indeed reverted it, people would not complain. But they reintroduced buggy behavior AND slowed fast vault to the point that there is barely any difference with mid vault (and going for fast vault is worse then accepting mids)
2, That would be true if you didn't already get prompt (because you are close enough) without moving an inch and the prompt suddenly disappearing on it's own. But as this is the case - I call it a bug that devs ignore - because it's apparently not a priority (same as vaults)
Yeah that is a fair complaint, after *fully* completing a fast vault you shouldn't be reachable, HOWEVER aslong as any of your bodyparts is in contact with the window you should still be hittable since slicing or smashing an arm is still realistically possible.
There's other instances where i can agree that sometimes a hit is "undeserved" for instance vaulting haddonfield second floor and getting hit mid fall animation.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540362#Comment_3540362
Since they neither appreciated when I did not run the strongest Meta nor when I helped them with Archive-Challenges... I doubt they appreciate if someone helps them with Exploiters. It is a shame, but at some point, people dont want to help anymore.
Be real here, what do you expect people to do just because you were a decent person for 10 seconds? You expect killers to throw the match for you just because?
I dont expect survivors to hookicide just because i allowed them to do their glyph before downing and hooking them.
Good deeds dont expect to be "repaid" thats the point of a good deed.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540327#Comment_3540327
Why do you need to FACEcamp again?
It does nothing against proxy camping which good killers use. You're not supposed to be staring at the survivor while he dies. If anything this is good for bad killers because now they'll have to learn proxy camping which is the superior strategy. They won't lose 3 gens anymore thinking thencan force people to come save against their Bubba and not gen rush themwhile you're doing the most suboptimal play of the century that relies on survivors having zero communication and not knowing the counter to facecamping.
Any wise survivor will just not bother save against good face-campers and do gens to leave, especially when they're on communication and everyone agrees on it.
Nobody talked about facecamping, don't be making strawmans.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540327#Comment_3540327
Because this is not how it will work. As written above. So if a Survivor is looping next to a hooked Survivor, they will still basically sabotage their team.
However, currently to get a safe Unhook (aka no trade) against a camping Killer, you need 2 Survivors for an Unhook. And this is not involving any Oneshots. This is not really reasonable and camping is really too strong if you need half the team to rescue one Survivor without having to trade.
And last but not least - it is just true that if a Killer is not camping, they wont be bothered by the mechanic at all. But again, BHVR has a history of trying to fix things but not being good at it. We have Anti-Camp Perks which dont really work against camping (Reassurance), we have Anti-Tunnel Perks which are not good against tunneling (since they all resolve around Endurance) and we even have something which should help Survivors when people DC (Bots) which wont really do anything.
So Killers really dont need to be worried, it will probably not be really impactful. (Especially since we know that proxy-camping will still be possible)
Because of "bhvr not being good at fixing things" is why people need to be worried.
If survivors happen get away with free unhooks by exploiting an "anti camp" mechanic it would be extremely problematic.
All the perks you've mentioned do their job pretty well. Perks shouldn't be "get out of jail free" cards like old DS and DH used to be, and right now they atleast require a couple of braincells to use effectively.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
You wont have to worry about it being "abuseable" if you dont camp in the first place.
But dont worry, knowing BHVR a anti-camp-mechanic will be bad against camping.
Why shouldn't killer players worry about the potential of a "anti camp" mechanic inadvertently allowing survivors to get free unhooks because the rescuer happens to be trying to loop the killer on the tile the hooked person is?
Tribalism takes like yours aren't healthy viewpoints.
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@vol4r said:
So we all know that hit validation after a stun is killer-sided.
Will you guys finally fix that, so we don't get hit after every stun even if we are on 20-30 ping? :)
ps: does bhvr even read those posts?
The whole argument that hits and stuns are killer sided goes out the window aslong as survivors are able to noclip trough a killer to drop a pallet and stun the killer while on the same side as the survivor, then to top it all off , the survivor noclips again trough the killer, vaults the pallet and makes it to the other side.
One situation is already ridiculous enough, but allowing the vault trough the stun is just the cherry in top.
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@AykDanroyd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533844#Comment_3533844
The do some gen patrol. THAT is how finding survivors was meant to be done. Not being given their location for free. You already have plenty of gen regression perks at your disposal plus OP killers to choose from. If you can't stop camping and do gen patrol, that's your problem. How the hell do you think killers played this game before any of these crutch perks were added? Why should perks like Distortion and Calm Spirit be needed because most johnny come lately players who play killer now are too lazy to do the legwork and actually search for survivors?
I've played both sides of the game for years and refuse to use those killer perks because then it's not hunting anymore when info is being fed to you on where survivors are and where they aren't. Killers never deserved to know where survivors are just for kicking a stupid gen or for free at the start of the match. Those were horrendous perks for Knight & Nemesis and this one is along those lines. At least with BBQ & Chili you had to hook someone and survivors within a certain distance from the unhook were not revealed. So that was fair. If you don't want to do the legwork to find survivors, then what you want to play is not DBD but some unrecognizable thing that this game has become. Why should brainless tasks like kicking a stupid gen or opening a locker show where anyone is? By that logic, I want a perk where entering lockers or vaulting windows gives survivors a gen speed increase for like 60-120 seconds? Both these scenarios are ridiculous because they both reward one side for not interacting (going against) the other side. Except one of them is real and already implemented in the way with those 2 perks and now this one of the Alien and the survivor perk idea isn't and will never be implemented. And Sadako gets to condemn survivors for just teleporting to TVs. That's all BS and unearned.
I literally don't recognize this game from what it was 3-4 years ago anymore and the fun factor is gone from both sides. Killer is too easy and survivor is almost impossible. No challenge on one side and a 90 degree mountain to climb on the other. And people on the easy side are STILL complaining. Play 1 match in solo queue survivor and then talk. Games are supposed to have a risk and reward and have highs and lows. You spend time looking for a survivor, and sometimes it's fruitless but when you find someone, your adrenaline levels go up. When you no longer have to look for them but their locations are fed to you, then there is no adrenaline factor and no fun or incentive to look or even play the game.
Too many entitled people here who believe they're supposed to get 4Ks every game without earning it. This game was not like that when I started playing it. Back then the losses made the wins that much more appreciable and winning was nowhere near as easy. Now everyone playing killer expects to win every time. I don't think so, go earn it. For this same reason, the survivor side has become nothing but gen rushing and that sucks too. So no fun for anyone other than people who love just being fed wins and putting in the bare minimum effort. The same reason why so many things IRL are going to crap but that's another topic.
And during that entire rant about wanting survivor perks that give free value did you forget that
Deja vu
Resilience
MFT
Windows of opportunity
Bond
Sprint Burst
Balanced landing
Lucky star
Boons
Bottany knowledge
Etc etc
Exist and give you free unconditional value just by having them equipped.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540215#Comment_3540215
What? So because it's popular that means you are guaranteed to get value? I mostly play bubba and don't use aura perk or scream perk.
Should survivors get refund? Or going at it directly your way - survivors should know what perks I am using, because otherwise they vould waste their perk slots. Riddiculous? Yes indeed it is... And yet you just wrote it:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540189#Comment_3540189
The point is that because the aura/scream builds are popular you are very likely to get major value from the perk.
Even IF you don't proc the main benefit of either perk, you get knowledge on what perks the killer *isnt* running and you're able to make informed decisions when it comes to endgame.
Cleaning all totems, touching gates to trigger NWO, 99ing gate for bloodwarden, etc etc.
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@Gandor said:
Regarding killswitches, I can understand that. There are a few questionable calls (like no killswitch for merciless), but it generally makes sense.
Still, considering bugs, prorities seem to be pretty clear right now.
Take vault bug. When it was broken so that killers were being robbed of hits sometimes (btw that's something survivors got used to and even killers say "it's latency and ignore it" even though you could at minimum split the bad behavior in half so that both sides get half-a-bad feeling instead of survivors carrying full load of BS), they revert it immediatelly. But aparently devs don't use version control and can't revert things properly - so they introduced 2 new bugs instead while not fixing third (killer being able to hit survivor after fast vault, fast vault being so slow as medium vaults and males still vaulting tiny bit further away) - this is not a priority and it doesn't matter that we are talking about CORE mechanics. This helps killers getting BS hits so it's fine. But if it robs killers of some hits like it did 2 patches ago (and like it always happens on survivors when killer lags), then THAT is priority.
And it's not just vaults. "Drop pallets confirm" that does nothing on pallet saves (the confirm just disappears the moment it should have an effect) is in game for maaaaany patches now and I am pretty sure devs just absolutely don't care about it. But say there was a possibility to blind killer thru lightborn and you can count at most days until that gets fixed...
Killers getting hits on vault animations is infact the logical design choice, during the animation your arm and shoulder is still physically on the window, and realistically you can still be chopped or clubbed.
The "fixed" vaults allowed male survivors to effectively vault over to the next tile, clean over any traps , while female survivors got their intended "fix" , this was clearly and obviously a bug that needed to be adressed with the only option being reverting to the least problematic version and fixing later.
On the topic of "drop pallets" it makes no logical sense as to why a survivor is allowed to noclip trough the killer to drop a pallet on the same side as the killer, then noclip again and vault to the other side.
BHVR has shown to have a pretty clear stance on killswitches, if the thing in question effectively renders the game unplayable it gsts killswitched.
While the MS bug was annoying , you could just let go of the gen and take the genblock for a couple of seconds, it didn't take the game hostage or prevent the gens from ever being completed unlike the locker noclip exploit that allows you to be invincible and take the game hostage.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540189#Comment_3540189
survivor don't know killer perk either.
I dont know if survivors are going to be running a variant of MFT+Resi, but im still more than willing to bet 100$ id see 1-2 per match.
Same way survivors are willing to bet the killer is going go have an aura/scream perk , and bring their distortion or CS.
Infact, CS started being used specifically because UW became popular, so your argument is out the window, once again.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
they only killswitch if it affects killers, xeno can block hook in crawler mode and literally "facecamp" to death but you don't see them use killswitch on xeno, or even his tail slowdown bug
Trying to compare a noclipping exploit that renders you invincible and let's you take the game hostage to xeno not being slowed down an extra 0.1ms after an M2 is just insanity.
The lengths yall go to make us v them posts is getting ridiculous, thanks for showing your already blatant biases ig.