WilliamSN
WilliamSN
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@DavidHypnos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495773#Comment_3495773
Completing gens is a team function. Keeping the killer busy while others complete gens is just as important as doing them yourself. Adrenaline works both ways - sometimes it activates right after the killer downed you only for them to down you once more. Sometimes it activates after you have been hooked which provides a great benefit provided someone actually rescues you. It’s very situational.
Buckle Up is designed to help the downed survivor. The additional endurance is just insurance so you aren’t trading places with them. It also reveals the killers aura. MFT is pure insurance - you don’t have to be afraid to help a teammate because you’re also vulnerable. Note: Buckle Up was also just recently changed after MFT was already released. It used to provide a haste benefit instead.
WGLF also does what Buckle Up does and has to have tokens to do so, but it doesn’t give YOU the endurance also but lets you pick up downed teammates faster. You could still combine all of these perks to get max value even though there is some overlap. I could run WGLF for the 100% speed bonus to healing dying survivors + Buckle Up to get us BOTH the endurance effect in case I’m injured too. Rather than obsolete they flow together.
Dark Theory has always been a bad perk and was best used with other boons like Shadow Step to make looping more effective. It can still be used with MFT to better effect.
Prove Thyself was mostly ran for bonus BP as not spreading gens isn’t a great idea. I loved it mostly for the last few gens when you had to work together more. The PT speed bonus was also for every survivor on the gen which meant even 3 ppl on it could make it pop fast. Resilience only affects the injured individual and is risky due to that status. It provides a benefit that is good enough to utilize when you’re unable to heal but not so good that it incentivizes you to just stay injured should you be able to help it.
They can also be ran together for a better speed boost meaning one does not make the other redundant. They also synchronize better with other perks - PT is great for Situational Awareness as it will draw others to your gen or Potential Energy so you can gain tokens without losing gen progress. Resilience is good with Windows of Opportunity to better utilize the vaulting speed and with Self-Care & Botany Knowledge to heal yourself 99% so you can utilize your speed boost on gens but heal up in a second should something go wrong.
Buckle up / MFT -
If you down someone near a pallet , and someone else is nearby you have to either eat the pallet save, or spend 30 seconds chasing surv 2, get a hit, surv 2 heads to the downed person, (Because within 30 seconds you can 99 the recovery) and you'll be forced to eat the endurance and pallet stun.
No counterplay possible.
WGLF is exactly how perks should be, you get a reward for doing something that doesn't directly help you.
Resi -
like you've stated, people 99% their heals then pop the heal when they are about to be hit with a medkit or selfcare.
Survivor got to do a gen 9% faster with no "risk" get the speed boost from the hit, make distance, then have MFT, and Resi speed boosts to juice a pallet and window setup for as long as possible.
No counterplay possible.
PTS -
Like you've stated again, its better to "split off" instead of co-oping on gens because of the efficiency penalty.
PTS on best case scenario saves you 4.5 seconds , going from 0-100%
Meanwhile a solo Resi saves you 8.1 seconds and doesn't require a second person while also providing you with benefits to everything else.
Dark theory -
it isn't a "bad perk" the "problem" is that it doesn't provide free unlimited , and rangeless value like MFT does, if the speed boost wasn't worth it, nobody would run MFT.
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This is legitimately the issue with current survivor meta.
Why run WGLF when you have buckle up that provides both the picker and the picked up with endurance.
Why use dark theory when MFT provides you with a better speedboost AND endurance for all healing actions.
Why use another gen perk when resi provides you with repair and a bonus to all actions just because you're injured?
Perks need to have diverse effects instead of being direct and straight upgrades to basekit.
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@DY86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495762#Comment_3495762
Oh u mean Remember Me actvates by playing normally? Like Adrenaline? LoL u are clearly out of it bye
Are we actually complaining about Remember me ?
That is legitimately hilarious.
Whats next, terrotorial imperative?
You're unable to understand that No input required second chances + Free speed boosts for getting hit is unhealthy.
Then again, you're bipolar enough to claim "Killer mains were whining about DH a while back" , while also claiming "old DH was a crutch" and a "second chance perk" so idk what to tell you.
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@DavidHypnos said:
Let me get this straight….
Made for This + Resilience are bad because you shouldn’t get rewarded for “playing badly” or “making a mistake.”
Hope + Adrenaline are bad because you shouldn’t get rewarded for “playing well” or “completing your objectives.”
So… which is it? Nevermind that the game is designed for chases to favor killers thus the former two perks aren’t rewards for screwing up but rather advantages for a disadvantageous situation.
MFT on its own makes current Buckle up and Dark theory obsolete.
Resilience makes PTS not worth running since you're likely to get hit troughout the course of the game and PTS requires you to be with a teammate on a gen to get the same 9% benefit. (Not to mention Resi applies the boost to *everything*)
Adren and Hope - more often than not, reward you for something you didn't do, I dont understand how can anyone call adren and hope balanced when they grant you effects because someone else a mile away popped the last gen. (Even worse when adren SAVES THE ACTIVATION for when you're unhooked / dropped)
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@DY86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495707#Comment_3495707
It is a condition regardless. Otherwise perks considered endgame (remember me/no way out etc) would have to be nerfed for the same reason u want to nerf that bunch. Endgame perks existed for the longest time and most of them are fine as is. U either have little experience in the game or are completely clueless if u dont see this
Also, corrupt isn’t “meta” because it was heavily nerfed lol did u start playing the game yesterday? And even today its a solid pick for killers with low mobility. Peace
Remember me - Requires you to injure the obession, grants a total of a 24 second delay upon max stacks , to a total duration of 36 seconds to open exit gate. Obsession isn't affected by this. - Specific requirement, perk isn't guaranteed value unless you kill the obsession first.
No way out - Requires the killer to hook 4 different people, blocks the gate for a total of 60 seconds after its touched. - Perk is timed, the requirement makes you unable to farm stacks from 1 single survivor.
Back in the day Corrupt was used more because gens took 10 less seconds to repair, and people were still running Gen oriented perks , couple that with survivors often spawning within a meter of a gen. it makes sense to "block" said gens.
Remember, killer metas are often a reflection of survivor metas.
People running MFT? people bring blood echo.
Running Plot twist? People run deerstalker.
More often than not, the people that benefit from Adren are the ones that went down or are close to going down before the last gen pops , you're rewarded with a mistake eraser because *someone else, a mile away, finished the last gen* and that is simply not a balanced perk.
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@DY86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495582#Comment_3495582
“ Perk value should never be a guaranteed thing” what??? Thats one of the worst takes ever made, not only here but everywhere. I honestly hope ur trolling otherwise it’s just too funny.
ur literally being contradictory since Adrenaline is conditional and so is Hope etc. whereas perks such as Corrupt Intervention are imediate and guaranteed. And no those are not the only ones to give guaranteed value like Plunderers Instinc is always guaranteed
A condition being "if you play as you're suppose to, we'll grant you a pocket SB + heal/pickup aswell as a 7% permanent speedboost" Isn't really a condition is it.
Its like a Scourge hook perk making all hooks a white hook , having to use a white hook wouldnt be much of a condition if all hooks were white would it?
And like I've mentioned, Corrupt just prevents you from doing the gens you spawned at, for 120 seconds OR until someone goes down. then you have a dead perk slot for the rest of the match , which is why corrupt isn't a "meta" perk.
And like I've stated, in the original post, a perk forcing you to go out of your way to search a chest is fine since it doesn't progress the main game, its a side objective.
heres the original piece -
Survivor perks were mostly Information / distraction / QOL / teamwork / Alternative abilities with the Movement and Action speed perks being on a timer or another activation requirement that doesn’t directly progress the game.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
Even at 80% global killrate you will still ask for nerfs it's crazy, can survivors have one decent perk not gutted ? 95% of surv perks are niche/useless so it makes sense to use the more useful ones
killers are running the exact same perks too, corrupt-deadlock or kick gen perks, sloppy butcher , no way out, noed... sometimes lethal + bbq that's it
Pulling numbers out of your rearend I see.
The last time BHVR released kill stats the average was sitting at 60ish across all killers.
Currently if you check Nightlight https://nightlight.gg/killers/viewer?sort=kill&shown=pick%2Ckill%2Cdist&start_days=28
You can see the global average sits more at around ~55%.
Again, if you check https://nightlight.gg/perks , you can openly see that theres a very distinct build diversity between killers and Survs , with killers running varied builds depending on what killer they play.
You also have to keep in mind that killer builds often result of a shift in survivor meta, for example, currently you see more Blood echo because of MFT spam.
you'll sometimes find certain killers running more common builds for that specific killer, like a huntress running BBQ , Iron maiden and darkness revealed because the killer power has synergy with it.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495582#Comment_3495582
Clearly you don't play survivor. Adren having guaranteed value? Have you ever heart about 2 most complained things on survivor side for past 7 years? How would you use adrenaline if you are being camped and tunneled at 5 gens?
Also taking your philisophy... Delete corrupt, deadlock, lethal, pain resonance (you included adrenaline and hope), pop (again adren/hope), nowhere to hide, STBFL, sloppy and jolt. All of them are without any condition or earned just by doing your objective (hiting, downing and hooking survivor and defending gens which aparently does not mean earned, because that's your objective. But you can still use your crowd control, ruin and other conditional hex perks).
You see how weird your argument actually is? Both sides have some good stuff in perks. Killers actually have better perks then survivor (survivor perk that can potentially progress gens in 4 rounds by up to 90s would be beyond broken), which is perfectly balanced by killer having 4 perks and survivor-team together 16 perks.
Corrupt - Gets deactivated after 120 seconds , or someone goes down, survivors can still do any other gen besides the one they spawned at. (Not busted in the slighest).
Deadlock - locks the most progressed gen after one is completed for 30 seconds but as we know, survivors usually have 2-3 gens going at the same time due to the nature of the 4 v 1 , 1 gets chased, other 3 pump gens early game. Locking a gen thats 60% when the one next to it is 50% means the value is limited.
Lethal - 9 seconds of aura at the start of the match, secondary effect of 2 extra seconds of aura doesn't come into effect unless you run other aura perks. Value is limited to literally 9 seconds at the start of a match.
SHPR - Requires you to go out of your way to find one out of 4 white hooks, of which you might get none because of the way the map and RNG works, value is quite literally not guaranteed. (Not to mention the possibility of hitting a -25% on a 10% gen)
Pop - Must find , down, and hook a survivor, perk activates, you have 45 seconds to find a gen with progress before its popped to get value (Multiple limiting conditions met)
Nowhere to hide - Requires kicking a gen (Killer objective is to kill, you can kill without kicking gens or slowdown at all since thats the way the game is balanced around) , limited to 24m range , and is time limited.
STBFL - Works with a stack mechanic, 1 stack gain for injuring non-obession, hitting obession loses 2 stacks, value isn't guaranteed, the effect isn't really noticeable until 4 stacks or so.
Sloppy - activates upon a hit on a chase , most likely you'll go down in said chase so it has no real effect, only comes into play if you escape chase AND start being healed AND the killer finds you within the 4s window to interrupt you.
An extra 4 seconds to heal (you really complaining about taking 4 extra seconds to heal?)
Jolt - activates on sucessful BASIC ATTACK DOWN (cannot use killer powers) has a limited range of 32 meters, causes gens to lose 7.2 seconds of repair.
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The mental gymnastics survivors are doing to try to defend their perk setup is insane.
You cannot legitimately defend perks like MFT , that makes dark theory and the new buckle up Obsolete.
You cannot defend Resilience , being a personal Prove Thyself , while also buffing every single other survivor action permanentely.
You cannot defend adrenaline when it potentially gives 4 people get a free healthstate instantly, + Pocket SB just because you did what you were suppose to do.
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When you look at perk usage statistics and you notice a couple are being used to the point of feeling like basekit you have to draw some conclusions.
Either its unbalanced and part of a sweat loadout (MFT + Resi builds)
Or people enjoy the convenience and less brain work (Windows of Opp , Bond, Kindred, etc etc) which is the healthier option.
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@DY86 said:
Serious question tho: what do u suggest then? Because ur ideas for hope and adrenaline are terrible. Both only work if all 5 gens are complete. Otherwise its a perk slot wasted. No need to rework that.
Im asking because if BHVR introduces a new gen speed perk this forums become a warzone. If they introduce chase oriented perks we get posts like urs. And so on and so forth. U want more chest related perks? Thats it?
im asking fr. because survs have 2 jobs, waste the killers time (i.e. chases) and do gens. So of course most perks are related to those 2 things.
The game is balanced around people not having perks.
Perk value should never be a guaranteed thing like MFT , Resi, Hope, Deja vu and Adren are.
Infact, out of 125 survivor perks, those are the only ones with guaranteed positive value , while the rest only provide value in the correct niche scenario, as perks should be.
For example :
Unbreakable - lets you pick yourself up with faster recovery speed, but if the killer doesn't slug you, you wont get guaranteed value, its an effect that helps a specific scenario.
Background Player - When the killer picks someone up, you get sprintbursted to allow for an easier flashlight save / pallet save. However value is not guaranteed if the killer faces a wall, or picks up outside a pallet.
Prove Thyself - 10% Bonus to repair speed only while co-oping. (which ends up being like ~9% because of the built in co-op slowdown , and at that point you might aswell run resilience and get 9% to everything for yourself.)
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Its very easy to spot the obvious outliers in 125 survivor perks once you see things this way.