WilliamSN
WilliamSN
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Counter point - this is an assymetrical game and in assyms the solo player is suppose to be magnitudes stronger than each individua in the 4 man team.
The killer is meant to have perks that are 3-4x stronger than a similar survivor perk because the survivors can bring 4x of the same perk.
Survivors are meant to bring counterperks to possible killer strats/perks.
Hate auras? bring distortion.
Hate Screams? Bring Calm spirit.
Don't like being slugged? Bring UB.
Don't like being tunneled? bring OTR or DS.
So on and so on.
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Sadly BHVR misses the mark of that fundamental assym design when perks like FTP+BU and current Background player exist.
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@Paternalpark said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596405#Comment_3596405
Mft was nerfed less then 24 hrs ago.
Can you chill with these goalposts for a second?
Imagine the fire deparment going "We just put out your house fire, now you want us to deal with the burning shed too??!" thats how these "moving the goalposts" comments sound like.
MFT was a 10/10 Problem.
Resi, Deja vu , Commodius/Toolboxes in general, FTP+BU is are 9/10 Problem.
Can't be telling killers to "develop gamesense and pressure gens" when gens can vary from 90 seconds to 34 seconds *with just a single person*
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Yeah, pallets have some VERY generous hitboxes against chucky, its honestly ridiculous that he gets stunned by essentially the wind displacement.
(Pretty sure all killers were getting affected by these generous pallet hitboxes, but 3rd person makes it so much more obvious).
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@coco_shotz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596021#Comment_3596021
Can you say the same for 3 gen tho? Its commonly stated that it's on the survivors if they allow the gens to pop too close together and be stuck in a 3 gen which is basically punishment for doing the objectives but it can't be on the killer to manage where they hook the survivors? I agree that the OP's situation is unfair but it's not common enough to warrant blindly throwing hooks around without consideration for placements after someone dies
You're comparing apples to oranges.
The survivors are the ones with the active choice of where to lead the chase to aswell as what parts of the map the killer will have no reason to go to.
Heres an example image :
If the survivors decide to do all gens on the top side + middle , killer will have no reason to go up there, hence making 4-5 hooks "non-existant".
the 4 bottom hooks will be the ones most likely to break, now if the bottom left side hook is broken, that whole left side becomes an unhookable safe zone for survivors trough no fault of the killer.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596350#Comment_3596350
Gens aren’t faster; survivors just don’t waste time healing or booning. They do the only thing of value they have left to do in a match: repair gens. So they seem faster because survivors aren’t wasting time on frivolous activities, but aren’t actually faster.
on "basekit" the gens aren't faster. but realistically once you take perks into consideration they are actually much faster.
9% from resi = 81s gen.
6% from deja vu = 85s gen.
If the survivor has both, the gens now take 76 seconds, which is 4 seconds faster than pre-6.1.0s 80s basekit.
A single commodius with yellow addons lets you shave close to 30s off a gen while solo.
All in all, Resi needs to be specialized into a chase perk by deleting the gen speed boost, deja vu reverted, and commodious getting a severe nerf aswell as the remainder of the toolboxes.
its important to take these nuances into consideration before making a gen speed claim.
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Yeah, Hook count needs to be increased a bit.
When you take into consideration that maps only spawn between 8-13 hooks , and half of them will be essentially non-existant due to the way the game functions, for example, if side A of suffo pit has all gens done, all hooks on side A are also essentially gone since the killer has no reason to go there it results in the killer realistically only having 3-4 hooks that get used for the entire game.
once those are gone its unreasonably difficult to get hooks on the side of the map where all the gens are.
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@Steakdabait said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3595779#Comment_3595779
How about you use the top 5% mmr one where kill rates are higher across the board.
Because as you might find out if you read the whole discussion, the topic being discussed was "Balancing for the majority".
And the "Majority" isn't in the top 5%, hence why they are the "5%".
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3595779#Comment_3595779
Nurse still has over a 50% KR in those stats, ergo, she's fine.
BHVR has stated the desired Killrate is around 60%.
Try again.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3595733#Comment_3595733
Where did I say nerf.
I promise you, I am very particular in the words I choose. It's not an accident.
Yes, you particularly said "Balance" ,however, if we "Balance" for the majority of people, we'll be forced to buff Nurse.
Since you know, if you include all MMRs, nurse has the lowest Killrate.
You cannot balance the game around survivors that run into walls or nurses that blink into basements.
There has to be an MMR cut-off where you tell people to get good instead of listening to demands for nerfs to the other side.
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@Pulsar said:
No, you balance for the most amount of people possible.
If a Killer is rocking a 85% KR against 90% of Survivors, but only 20% against the other 10%, that's still an issue and they need to be changed.
Or you know, just teach the 90% how to actually play instead of dumbing down the game for them.
If the 10% knows how to shut down the killers power to the point the killer has a 20% KR, then the killer is actually weak once the survivors stop Running into walls.
If you nerf a killer that has a 20% KR vs 10% of the pop, then said killer is going to 0% KR vs the 10%, that is not fun for anyone and the killer will not be played at all.
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@Dogma_loki said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3595273#Comment_3595273
You mean any more brain dead than killers intentionally forcing 3 gens and using it solely as a cheap and easy way to bore survivors to death to the point where they just give up after 30-40 minutes?
And incidentally, the Devs have already stated on more than one occasion they never intended 3 gens as a way for killers to hijack games.
And when DBD was made they weren't intending for looping to be a thing.
So whats your point?
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If they just increase the distance between gens that would probably be fine, but if anything involves sharing Gen progress, or faster gens, or gens teleporting or whatever, it would be extremely unhealthy and purely a survivor buff that the game doesn't need.
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I'll always have a problem with built in mechanics that can potentially erase mistakes for pretty much free or in certain cases, make the "mistakes" the best play.
If they prevent 3 genning, all it will do is encourage survivors to slam out the far out gens that the killer can't reasonably apply pressure to, because they won't be punished for it.
We seriously don't need more basekit mechanics that reduce brainpower requirements from the game.
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@altruistic said:
We haven’t even had MFT nerf and people are already on the next thing. Actually didn’t expect that.
These kind of comments make absolute 0 sense.
Imagine calling the fire department , they put out your house fire and then when you ask them to look at your burning shed they just go "We just put out your burning house, and now you want us to put out the burning shed too?!"
MFT alone was a severely busted perk that shouldn't have even released in its original state , but current FTP+BU combo is also extremely overpowered and needs to be looked at.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
I have seen many people complain they go against the same handful of killers. Perhaps there should be a BP incentive for killers currently not selected or being played (irrespective of where the usual BP incentive happens to be).
For example, let's say the BP incentive is 100% on Killer side but you could add an additional 25-100% for killers like The Twins and The Nightmare.
The only solution would be to buff the weaker killers so you're not at an auto disadvantage if you decide to try playing as Pig, Myers,Ghostie, Freddy, etc etc.
No amount of bloodpoint bonuses would be enough to get someone to play current state freddy that just feels like a weaker clown.
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Yeah, a relic of old DBD questionable balance decisions.
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@Astel said:
As the title says, what is your opinion about Gearhead? I haven't seen this perk even after its rework in 6.7.0
The perk is good if you have an aura build and want to burn trough potential distortion tokens, BUT suffers from the survivor aura blending into the gen aura more often than not.
Game in general requires a QOL change when it comes to aura colors , losing perk value over auras blending with eachother doesn't feel good.
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@ratcoffee said:
devs have explicitly said that they want the RNG to sometimes just let less experienced player beat better players
one of many reasons I think it's clear this is meant to be a casual game; devs are intentionally designing it so sometimes the better team/player can play better and still lose due to the map
In other words "The devs intentionally made it so someone randomly has a horrible experience in their own game".
If that doesn't scream blatant bad design, I don't know what does.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3594217#Comment_3594217
This is false, you will be called out if you smurf or if you lose on purpose off stream to get better mmr.
But if your only enjoyment of the game is that you DOMINATE people who are not matched with you fairly then true.
However I just play calmly and I don't sweat, and I get fairly relaxing matches.
Nobody enjoys curbstomping every match, there needs to be a "challenge", however, nobody wants to put themselves trough a darksouls level match every match just because they are better at the game than the average.
in OW2 terms, the SBMM is just going "oh you hit Platinum 5? hope you're ready to play versus Grandmasters and top 500s every so often"
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Yeah, the RNG system in this game is horrendous.
Had a match a few days ago on swamp as xeno where 4 tunnels were within 8m of eachother, a section of the map had nothing, and the closest tunnel exit to the dead side was facing a wall... surrounded by the fallen logs...
RNG in moderation is fine, but when RNG can dictate wins and losses just from the spawn screen, its problematic.
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@Caiman said:
I wouldn't switch off the fast heal of Buckle Up, but I would switch the Endurance effects. WGLF lets you heal dying survivors faster and if you've been altruistic in the past, it rewards the both of you with Endurance on pick-up. Buckle Up solely awards Endurance to the picked up survivor, making it easier but doesn't benefit the user. That is much healthier if you ask me.
You got it switched up brother.
Buckle up makes WGLF completely irrelevant.
Yes... a perk that has no token requirements (Buckle up, Permanent free value) is that much stronger than a perk that requires tokens.
Buckle up shouldn't have been buffed.
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@Emeal said:
No please dont, the game feels just about right now. If people sweat too much they can just not and lose until their mmr is normal.
Boggles my mind that this is the only game where smurfing is encouraged by the community in order to have fun matches.
This is intended to be a casual game, forcing one side to sweat like they are playing for the Champions League just so they can have a fair chance at winning against a side that just Holds M1 on a gen is ridiculous.
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@ember__lol said:
before the mmr update i use to go on very long loss streaks and idk if its bc im bad or if mmr was just really odd.
so im writing down how all my matches go and my wins losses and more, im trying to see if theres a pattern and just thought you guys would be intrested. (im also doing it to make DbD more intresting)
ill be writing down wins, losses, how i escape, how many gens are left when i die/escape, how many chases i get in and map, i will also be updating it daily
survivor stats| no items or offering| H=hatch G=gate
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perks im using for first 10 matches (rank ash4-1)
plot twist, hope, lithe, deja vu.
matches|win/loss|exit |gens left|chases |killer |map
match 1: W | G | 0 | 2 |knight |Grim pantry
match 2: L | | 3 | 2 |dredge |nostromo
match 3: L | | 3 | 4 |blight |garden of joy
match 4: W | H | 2 | 0 |PH |autohaven wreckers
match 5: W | G | 0 | 4 |spirit |mothers dwelling
match 6: w | G | 0 | 1 |spirit |thompson house
match 7: L | | 4 | 2 |dredge |ironworks
match 8: W | G | 0 | 0 |singularity |wreckers' yard
match 9: L | | 4 | 0 | pig |erie of crows
match10: W | G | 0 | 3 |spirit |lerys
NOTES: match 9 pig was only friendly to the jill and killed
everyone else, jill showed pig where we were and didn't unhook us
i hit the 4% and then ran to corner map to plot twist and jill
sold me out to the pig. i will still count it as it was still winnable somehow.
WIN RATE IN ASH: 60%
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perks im using for matches 11-20 (rank bronze4-2
spine chill, dead hard, dark sense, resilience
matches|win/loss|exit |gens left|chases |killer |map
match 1: L | | 3 | 2 |dredge |coal tower
match 2: W | H | 1 | 1 |myers |groaning storehouse
match 3: L | | 3 | 3 |wesker |lampkin lane
match 4: W | G | 0 | 0 |huntress |crotus penn asylum
match 5: W | G | 0 | 2 |bubba |gas heaven
match 6: W | G | 3 | 0 |ghostface |hawkins labatory
match 7: L | | 1 | 5 |legion |dead dawg saloon
match 8: W | G | 0 | 2 |myers |grim pantry
match 9: L | | 2 | 3 |clown |crotus penn church
match10: L | | 0 | 6 |onryo |groaning storehouse
NOTES:match 6 ghostface became freindly to me after i started slapping an afk meg as all
my teammates went AFK. he was very nice and friendly to me
WIN RATE IN BRONZE 4-2: 50%
thats a 10% decrease from yesterday
These statistics are slightly misleading, its important to also note if the *team won*.
For example, i can have a 100% deathrate , yet the rest of my SWF always escapes , by game design 2 to 3 people are supposed to die per trial, and all this really tells us is if you lucked out on being the one that didn't get sacrificed.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3593697#Comment_3593697
How terrible of you to abuse the killer by using your perks and items to outplay them! Everyone knows it's only the killer that's allowed to use their perks and abilities to outplay survivors, not the other way around!
Its as much of an "outplay" as insta gen BNPs.
Nobody is getting "outplayed" when the killer has no possible counterplay to FTP+BU allowing insta pickups with free 10s of endurance before killer even finishes wiping his weapon, or just the mere fact that he can't predict a survivor coming from one edge of the map to the other at mach 10 with BP to pallet stun/flashie save.
These perks are fundamentally busted and demand a revert.
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@OrangeBear said:
I keep seeing people worried that they are going to nerf chucky after release, and so they will not buy him.
I don't really get this, they have barely nerfed the last 12 killers released at all. Most have been buffed or received no changes. Xenomorph did get the missed tail nerf but i honestly found that change pretty minor, and it was a ptb to live revert.
Mastermind especially is a very popular and strong killer and he has received 0 changes in over a year.
The most recent new killer that got nerfed after release was TWINS from nearly 3 years ago.
So i don't really understand why people have these concerns when it comes to Dead by Daylight specifically.
When it comes to other games i absolutely understand. Hero shooters, new heroes get nerfed after release frequently. Do people get this fear from other games?
Let me know what you think
Mostly because the nerf already happened, scamper got nerfed and SnD cooldown got increased.
Batteries included got essentially nuked from existence.
Now when it comes to xeno, the homie on release had some of his addons changed and nerfed, in specific, the iri cattleprod has underwent 2-3 changes since the PTB fully undocumented, started as a "for 15 seconds survivors that get within x meters of a station get their aura revealed for 15 seconds" to "for 15s, yadayada, aura lasts for the remainder of the 15s".
The tail cd on official release was rightfully buffed to 2 m/s , but sadly had a bug that made The slowdown non-existent.
bhvr instead of fixing the bug and keep the 2 ms decided to fix the bug AND nerf the 2ms down to 1.2ms while ALSO messing with the tail hitbox.
All this because survivors refused to learn to use the turrets and watch for the blatant visual cue were complaining that xenos tail had "no counterplay, there's no warning on his tail, yadayada". Yet after a couple of months i don't see a single soul complaining about this anymore.
BHVR is too quick with the kneejerk nerfs to killers instead of allowing people to learn the counterplays.
Meanwhile the MFT nerf took almost half a year, and that thing didn't need an engineering degree to figure out that a 20% longer chase just for holding ShiftW was fundamentally busted.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592879#Comment_3592879
On the bright side, maybe bhvr will finally realize just how much survivors have power over killers once killer success rates start plummeting.
Yeah, can't wait for official killrates to be released so people realize survivors are legitimately too strong.
When nightlight has killrates dropping to ultra low 50s / high 40s, with the only exception being SM/onryo because of the hookicides, there's clearly a balance problem.
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@Nos37 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3593483#Comment_3593483
You want me to use 3 perk slots to counter the killer's 1 perk (on top of the camping / tunneling they can do for free)?
Noted.
Yes... that is the point of hex perks, hexes are *designed* to be overpowered (even though atm they are a joke) with the tradeoff of being removable from play.
Also yes... killer perks are supposed to be 3-4x stronger than survivor perks, hence the fact that killer has 4 perks while survivor teams have 16.
If the threat of noed bothers you that much, you can still have 2 gen jockeys and a totem hunter to "punish" camping.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
How would an accessibility feature be "cheating"?
Any Survivor can use it, you are not technically at an advantage since anyone can just enable it in the settings.
well, it isn't "cheating" but it also isn't "not cheating", its in a greyzone of acceptability, much like visual game filters are.
You DO get a noticeable advantage over non-visual HB users as someone above demonstrated otherwise why would non-hearing impaired individuals use the feature.
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Also, like op pointed out, killers also need accesibility features, a basic crosshair , directional audio indicators and customizable aura colors are things that aren't all that difficult to do and most of them can be incorporated with already existing gamecode.
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Is it really a wild take when a significant majority, including CCers noticed and pointed out that matches have been feeling significantly harder recently?
Hell, we even have multiple threads in the forum pointing out that matches have become unpleasantly sweaty. (In which mandy confirmed the softcap increase no less.)
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@Chaosrider said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3593109#Comment_3593109
I detect a massive amount of bias and lack of gamesense. Nothing more to discuss here if youre thinking like this.
Wheres the bias and lack of game sense?
Did the survivor achieve any objectives by getting hit/going down/dying? Nope. (Again by your original post logic, half of the survivors perks shouldn't exist).
Is 7% bigger than 4%? Yup.
Is the 4% the value that is tied to a hex that can be removed by the other side? Yup.
Is the killers objective to kill? Yup.
Is the 1 in a 1 v 4 assymetrical game supposed to be as powerful as the 4 combined (in dbd case, the killer)? Yup.
Seems to me like my "gamesense" is pretty spot on.
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@Chaosrider said:
First, BHVR never had a balance philisophy to begin with. Second, think about logic for yourself at least. Survviros getting rewarded for doing their objective by just playing with two pekrs and sacrifing the rest for a mere 2 or 3 minutes. Killers meanwhile can use that perks during the game by just playing the game (gens get done by default gameplay) and getting a massive reward at the point they mostlikely failed to do their objective without any downside. Double standards from killers as always.
Yes... BHVR never had a proper balance philosophy.
Second if we go by your logic, half of survivor perks would require a substantial nerf.
Why should survivors be rewarded with resi,MFT, well make it, Unbreakable, etc etc when they blatantly"failed at their objective" and got hit/downed/hooked?
There's a clear balance dissonance when a killer perk for 4% haste is an hex perk (BHVR definition, hexs are extremely strong perks).
Yet hope for 7% is just free,permanent and has no counterplay.
Thirdly, the killers objective is to kill, until the survivors are out of the trial the killer didn't "fail at his objectives".
All in all, the power role is killer, it makes sense for killer to have perks 3-4x stronger than a similar survivor perk.
If you want to know if a certain survivor perk is balanced, just 3-4x the effects and for certain perks apply the mirror effect (Endurance > exposed, for example).
And let me tell you, you wouldn't enjoy going against a killer version of hope. (21-28% haste perm).
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@CodeDB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592926#Comment_3592926
I mean, I once saw a Blight running Gearhead/Brutal Strength and nothing above a green add-on get a 4k against a comp level survivor team so I don't know how true it is that you have to run the strongest addons or perks. I don't have the video on hand but I'll see if I can find it somewhere.
But can you at least acknowledge that the Blight, did in fact, secure a 4k and that is your "perfect illustration" for needing balance changes to make the Blight player stronger? And that sounds at least a little bit silly?
Nobody is saying that the blight didn't "4k" , but the nuances that led to the 4k are extremely important.
1 person got tunneled and a 3 v 1 was forced very early on, the survivors were inherently playing with suboptimal loadouts, 5 gens still popped and gate was opened.
It's important to acknowledge the nuances because they played a major role in the outcome.
The point still stands that for a comp level killer to *barely win*, an early tunnel was required aswell as lucking out that survivors had perk restrictions.
The point still stands that if in order for this to be achievable in high MMR pub lobbies, killers are forced to play nurse/blight w/strong addons + perks, otherwise you start off at an automatic disadvantage.
Starting at an auto disadvantage is a sign that something isn't balanced quite right.
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@CodeDB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592913#Comment_3592913
What if the Blight wasn't perk or add on limited as well?
What if a Blight could go on a 1,000+ public game 3/4k streak?
Wild hypotheticals we can throw around. I guess we'll just never know. What I do know though is that arguing for balance changes because something ALMOST happened sounds ludicrous.
A comp level blight going on a 1000 winstreak in public lobbies doesn't mean much when you take into consideration the softcap pairing 1800 MMR players with comp players that realistically belong in a 3000 mmr bracket.
We're not arguing for balance changes on something that "almost happened" , the 5 gen pop with only 3 players remaining happened, the gate opening happened.
If at high MMR killers are forced to play blight/nurse , with strongest addons + strongest perks , just to be able to BARELY secure a win after 5 gens get popped, then the matches for any of the other 30 or so killers will be much more disastrous.
A game where only 2 characters are viable at high MMR gets boring extremely quick, both for killer and survivor players.
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@CodeDB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592900#Comment_3592900
Wow, they ALMOST got 3 out? Thats like, super crazy. Really unfair.
What was the actual end result of this comp matchup?
Thanks, youve completely missed the fine details from that match, but I'll explain it to you again.
A comp level blight, getting an early kill at 3 gens (essentially making the game a 3 v 1), STILL managed to lose all 5 gens + gate opened (while having pop for slowdown), against Survivors that were severely limited in perk choice and item choice.
Heres the video for reference:
https://youtu.be/Lcv_kApsE0A?si=4seeQU3-K3sIPamNNow, if a 5 gen pop + gate open + almost 3E with only 3 survivors alive for 90% of the match is the end result.
What do you reckon would happen if the survivors weren't perk/item limited, just the way it is in public matches?
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@CrypticGirl said:
No, I think this is a good change. People complained about Survivors getting stacked MFT+Hope, so why should Killers get haste stacks? They're already faster than Survivors at base.
Also, if they didn't deactivate Batteries Included for endgame, the effects would just be nerfed into the ground like every other perk they've nerfed.
Because theres a massive difference between a survivor being as fast as a killer , permanently, without any counterplay essentially guaranteeing a free escape, and the killer being able to catch you a second or so earlier IF the noed totem stays up... and IF hes close to a generator.
Killer is the power role, its the logical outcome for killer role to have perks 3-4x stronger than a similar survivor perk.
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I've been saying this for a long time, the game when played at High MMR is extremely survivor sided.
One of the recent otz videos perfectly illustrates this, comp level blight v comp level survivors + perk/item limitations and the survivors still 5 gen popped and *almost* 3E'd even when the blight got a kill at 3 gens left.
If THAT is the result when both sides are comp players with severe restrictions, you can imagine what happens in your average high mmr match v survivors without perk and item restrictions, not playing blight/nurse at the softcap just means your chances of losing jumped from 50% to 90%.
Something needs to be done when it comes to balancing "who" the power role is.
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My only issue with the softcap jump from 1800 to 2100 is that all my lobbies turned into sweatfests and im unable to play "hard casual".
Getting lobbies full of MFT+Resi, FTP+BU , BackPlayer + flashlight, Commodius w/addons + streetwise just turned the game from a casual party game into a comp level mindset that just burns people out very quickly.
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The simplest solution would be to force a skillcheck the moment you interact with a regressing gen similar to overcharge, but instead of a "difficult" its just a normal skillcheck.
Its ridiculous for a killer to need to put 2 seconds into a kick to start regression, just for that regression to be stopped with a 0.1s m1 tap mid chase.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Ruin will back to 200% regression and it won't deactive after one survivor died.
DS will back to 5 seconds stun and it will work after both hooks. It will still deactive after all gens finished or conspicuous actions.
Would you take it?
I feel like it would be better for game's health. Ruin & Undying was fine combo. It gave reason to killers leave hooks and pressure on gens. And DS was nice protection for survivors whenever killers try to tunnel.
The only possible scenario in which DS gets buffed to a 5s stun , requires that DS's offensive capabilities get *severely nerfed*.
It makes no sense for DS to work after you went out of your way to bodyblock for your rescuer (A conspicious action by dictionary definition : "standing out" "noticeable") , hence forcing the killer to chase you because the rescuer is on the other side of the map by now and then you hit them with a DS, even though you forced the chase on you.
It also makes no sense for the counter to DS (slugging) to be counterable via forcing a locker grab.
DS should legitimately only work on deliberate tunneling.
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@MarylinMonhoe said:
Hello,
What I am going to write isn't something new.
When I launch a game and wait in the lobby, and a survivor with only his/her character's name is popping, there are 85% chances they will dc mid game
Do you guys get this too ? Or when they don't dc they throw the game
Of course you can leave lobbies when this happens, but i would be lobbies dodging more than actually playing the games
And same goes for the killers, I swear I got the nastiest killers when they hide their username (some of them asking us to unalive ourself), I don't record my sessions nor do I report via the ingame option, for your information
It's like people on social medias, trashtalking behind a screen makes them 1000% meaner. Being anonymous sets them "free".
I know it's a game but still, daddies need to chill
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the feature implement to preventing streamsniping or harassment ?
I would like BHVR to add an option, like when a killer tags and his/her username is hidden, you have the opportunity to leave the lobby
Other than that, I really enjoy the game though
Luv ya
The benefit of anon mode greatly outweight the "Cons".
Anon mode lets you avoid being directly DM'd nasty stuff because you're playing X killer, it also prevents people from spamming your steam profile with hundreds of pages of "-rep (Nasty comment here)" type of comments.
Anons are still reportable ingame, and if the Endgame chat bothers you that much you can close the chat window, or alternatively just ... go next...
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@UnknownKiller said:
At least those who tunnels cuz game goes fast as hell.
With 4 survivors gen time become 180 secs
With 3 survivors becomes 90
With 2 surv becomes 45 secs.
The idea is buff surv speed doing gens when the less surv are in game.
Tunneling happens because there just isn't enough gen time at Higher MMRs to have multiple 30-60 second chases with each individual person.
4 Chases would equal 120-240 Seconds , A *single survivor* can pop one gen in 90 seconds , but obviously theres 2 other survivors doing gens aswell, so in those 90 seconds, theres 3 total gens being worked on, 60% of the survivors goal being finished when the killer gets a single hook (8%~) just doesn't feel right. (Again, this math is easily verifiable by checking speedrundotcom where 5 gen pop escapes take 4-6 minutes)
And with current state survivor perks, its a guarantee that no gen will take "90 seconds".
Got commodious toolboxes turning gens from 90s solo to 60s solo.
Got Deja vu telling survivors which gens are critical to avoid a 3 gen while also shaving 5% off just because you spawned in. (84s gens perma) (That is 60% of a BNP on every single gen)
Got Resilience, for some reason providing a 9% speed buff to everything , which results in a 9% shave (81s gen).
The only way to solve this situation would be to encourage killers to not tunnel by providing benefits (ex: Basekit Grim embrace).
Or basekit Corrupt so 3 gens don't fly by the time you find your first survivor, hence indirectly giving more gen time.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3567917#Comment_3567917
I really feel like you're losing sight of the most important part of this conversation, which is that we're talking about people being tunnelled. We're not talking about general chases, we're not asking for the game or for any perk to cover up mistakes that people make in the course of normal gameplay, we are talking about someone specifically being targeted while they are much more vulnerable than the default.
That is relevant, because we're not talking about general chase perks, we're talking about anti-tunnel. We're talking about DS specifically, even, the hardest anti-tunnel to try and weaponise. You as the killer can completely invalidate and ignore these perks by not tunnelling people. If you choose to tunnel someone, there should be the risk that they have genuinely potent tools to make it not worth your time, otherwise why wouldn't every killer tunnel all the time? That won't lead to a reduction in tunnelling, obviously.
I'll briefly address the things in your brackets there, too, just to be clear:
- When I refer to people not slugging, I don't understand what the confusion is or why this counts as "mental gymnastics". You said killers would slug more, I said I don't think they would. That's a pretty straightforward claim and counter-claim situation, so if I'm missing something, absolutely let me know and I'll be happy to clarify.
- For the perk vs mechanics thing, you're the one who asked why the perk should be stronger and more forgiving than the basekit mechanic- and the answer is because it's a perk, it's something you're bringing to get a benefit above and beyond what's available to you in the basekit. It's fair for the basekit to be minor and heavily reliant on skill expression, but the tools you bring to do that job should be better than that, because you're giving up a perk slot for it. Otherwise why bother running the perk?
- Anti-tunnel should work together and stack so that you can actually make yourself an unviable chase. Right now the killer can either hit you straight away to clear your Endurance, or they can count to ten. Neither of those are enough of an investment that tunnelling that survivor isn't worth it, so if the multiple perks involved would work together, those killers would think twice before tunnelling that survivor, making the anti-tunnel actually effective.
- Why are you referring to Haste and Endurance before the survivor is hooked? Those aren't anti-tunnel and most of them (Endurance, anyway, less so Haste) need to be nerfed anyway, they're not relevant here.
- That's literally what "deterring" means, so maybe this is a language issue? When I say killers would be deterred from tunnelling, what I mean is that they would make the choice not to tunnel because they either suspect a survivor has anti-tunnel tools like DS, or because they're assuming everyone has it. That's exactly what "deterrent" means and it is in fact what I want, it is healthier for killers to avoid recently unhooked survivors and chase someone else.
It's fair to expect people in a PvP game to get the necessary skill and game sense to be good at it if they want to win. That should imply, then, that we're giving them the reasonable space to do so, right? Being tunnelled is not normal gameplay, it's explicitly starting a chase injured and in what is likely to be a bad area. That's not normal gameplay conditions to improve, because if you're unhooked and healed while the killer's chasing someone else, you should ideally be starting the next chase healthy and in a different part of the map that likely has more resources. That's breathing room that gives you more time to practice and improve, which is something most people are gonna require if they're going to get better. As you get better and better, you'll need that breathing room less and less, which is totally normal and how improvement works in every other game.
I feel like you're really dancing around the issue of tunnelling being a bad thing we should want to fix, honestly. You keep drifting out into talking about general concepts like people getting good or having their mistakes covered for, while completely avoiding that we aren't talking about normal gameplay, we're talking about tunnelling.
The bottom line here is that tunnelling is still an issue in this game, both in terms of balance and in terms of fun factor. That's something you seem reluctant to acknowledge here, so it bears repeating.
Also, DS does not "work fine". It's really weak and requires you to already be in a strong tile when you go down because you get very little distance.
My issue with buffing ds, is that there *needs* to be punishment for survivor aggressive plays (insta unhooks before killer even has time to leave the hook).
The point of hooking is to create pressure by forcing 1-2 other people to be busy with save + chase, if you insta unhook that pressure is deleted and the only way to get it back is to effectively "tunnel" hence forcing the 2 hookstate person to play more passively , which essentially turns the team less effecient.
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I'd honestly rather see killers encouraged to *not tunnel* via benefits rather than punishment for doing the correct match winning play.
Give killers a basekit version of BBQ/Alien instinct so they feel compelled to "get the value".
Grim embrace is also a good candidate for a non-tunneling reward.
Some kind of basekit haste+undetectable bonus for hooking survivors in a non-tunneling streak, so killers will want to not tunnel to get the benefit.
The point is there's plenty of routes that can be taken besides turning DS into such a powerful perk that it becomes a *mental 5th perk* causing everyone to wait 60s even if the survivor doesn't have it.
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A year ago someone compiled hook and pallet densities.
If we assume the average map is 10k sqm in size and the average hook rate is 10. You get a hook rate close to 1 hook per 1k sqm.
Now if we take into consideration that edge map hooks see considerably less usage when compared to more centered hooks due to the nature of the game progressing, which results in even though you have "10 hooks to use" only 4-6 are actually valuable and usable hooks.
Id honestly argue there isn't *enough* hooks in the maps since for example, a hook on side A of suffo pit will never see use when all the action happens on side B.
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@ThanksForDaily said:
Killers not complaining in any event challenge impossible.
Unbalanced this unbalanced that, just enjoy the event and the bps holy crap.
Thing is, some people want to play DBD and not be forced to deal with an event that gives survivors an extra healthstate for free.
The pumpkins and the rift deposit hastes are fine, since realistically you'll only use them for map mobility and not chase.
But the 30s endurance ontop of haste is too much and results in a frustrating killer experience.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3567762#Comment_3567762
I think it'd be clearer what you mean if you were to say "getting a save" should be a conspicuous action, which I would actually agree with as a statement.
Clicking the flashlight would be flashlight use, and that should hardly disable your DS or anything. For the other items, it's their associated action - healing and repairing - that counts as a conspicuous action, they disable DS whether the item is in play or not. If you shine your flashlight into the sky, you aren't progressing the game, but if you get a save you definitely are.
Randomly clicking or just like, blinding at a pallet, those shouldn't be conspicuous actions, but saving someone else absolutely should be.
Yeah, saves 100% should count, no doubt.
My issue is that pallet blinds / clicky flashlight is dictionary definition of "conspicuous" (attracting attention to oneself), even if we don't go by dictionary, we still have the component that you're taking an "offensive action" against the killer.
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@D0NN1ED4RK0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3567733#Comment_3567733
The whole purpose of a conspicuous action was to ensure that you’re no longer getting tunneled/not in chase with the killer after being unhooked and I don’t see how is dropping pallets and using a flashlight should be considered one? You’re evading the killer when dropping pallets and using flashlights and I don’t rlly think body blocking should also be considered a CA I mean yeah it’s pretty much a survivor consenting to being tunneled but from my pov just hard tunnel them I mean didn’t they ask for it by bodyblocking? And on top of that wouldn’t this technically be abused by some killers? I mean don’t wanna deal with decisive? Just instantly hit the unhooked survivor and the game just rendered it as a protection hit and their DS deactivated
Original post already explained the point.
Survivors shouldn't be able to weaponize anti tunnel mechanics and perks to punish the killer for not tunneling.
If youre using basekit bt to bodyblock for the unhooker, youre weaponizing the anti tunnel mechanic, then if you get downed again, you pop DS and get outta jail for free.
Flashlight needs to follow the other item rules in that self healing/ repairing a gen counts as a conspicuous action therefore Flashlight use should also count especially considering you have a 60s window where you're able to attempt flashy saves with no real punishment.
Pallets follow the same logic, you're able to get a pallet save with no threat of punishment in a 60s window, at the *very minimum* pallet saves should count as conspicuous and disable anti tunnel perks.
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3 seconds let's you run 12 meters, thats more than enough to run to a tile and waste the killers time again.
The conspicuous actions are severely lacking in what counts as a conspicuous action.
Bodyblocking/prot hits + flashlight use + pallet needs to count as a conspicuous action. Survivors shouldn't be able to weaponize anti-tunnel features to punish the killer for *not tunneling*.
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@Venusa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3567662#Comment_3567662
Nobody is asking for DS to fix anyone's lack of knowledge. Idk where y'all get that from. I didn't even make any buff suggestions.
I simply showed an example that 3 seconds doesn't even give you enough distance against certain killers that can either range-hit or teleport deeming the perk useless. That's it.
Be realistic, what do you expect the perk to do?
Killer wasted time chasing you, you ds'ed , and forced a second chase (essentially 2nd healthstate). You run 12 meters in 3 seconds, thats enough to reach a tile and begin looping again.
Do you expect ds to make you immune to be hooked unless the killer hooks someone else or lets you reset?
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@Venusa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3567161#Comment_3567161
But you see, it's a very powerful anti-tunneling perk and it "does it's job" by heavily punishing and disincentivizing the Killer from tunneling. Killers are so afraid of 3 seconds of stun, they don't even tunnel. Also if it doesn't work for you it's a skill issue.🤠/s
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3LE19UNNDZKJ/ezgif-1-997d264d16.gif
Did the ada get a second chance at life thanks to DS? Yup.
Did she make the biggest mistake in DBD by W keying without looking back or even attempt to run into the tile 2 meters to the side against a ranged killer? Yup.
DS isn't meant to cover ada's/anyones lack of skill in chase / game awareness.
I can guarantee you nobody in the room is surprised that W key vs Deathslinger didn't work.
If you're going to go down soon Learn to go down near a tile/pallet so you can extend chase for another minute after DSing instead of trying to W key to comp corner just to get smacked down again after 5 seconds because you put yourself in a deadzone.
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Been playing xeno since release, and im up to p35+.
My main issues with xeno is the randomized tunnel underground network often forcing you to lap the map to go to an exit thats about 20ish meters away. (Basement spots, haddonfield houses,etc) or exits being in some really awful places like the eyerie of crows main building putting a xeno exit on second floor back balcony , away from any normal foot traffic or gen spots.
And when you DO have a properly placed exit, the disorientation when coming out of it is extreme , some kind of arrow or visual effect indicating where I'll be facing as soon as i pop out would be great.
Now the tail power.... it's extremely good when mastered and lets you outplay certain tiles without having to pallet break. (Fake a direction, survivor tries looping to the other and you smack them over the pallet). Having a crosshair is extremely helpful too.
However for a killer counterplay to disable the killers power, it warrants a power thats nurse/blight level, i think its time for bhvr to implement different basestats for killers and alien could have been the stepping stone for that with either making the self destruct bolt basekit , or making alien 120% when in crawl mode.
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My problem with the "disable power" suggestions is that it would make no logical sense on over half the killers.
What would be the logic behind DS not letting killers like Slinger/huntress/trick/clown not be able to aim/throw their projectiles for 10 seconds?
Or demo/ xeno / legion not be able to use their M2, that are very similar to their M1s ?
Or how would you disable trappers power? Do you just prevent him from putting a new trap or disable already existing ones for 10s?
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I'd be fine with buffing DS to 4-5 seconds, but it needs its offensive capabilities completely nuked.
The scenario where a killer tries to not tunnel, but gets bodyblocked by the basekit BT , decides to punish the block by waiting 10s just to end up getting DS'd by force, just ends up turning the perk from "anti tunnel" to a "get outta jail free" card.
(Tbh, basekit bt bodyblocks need to be adressed in general, being punished by anti tunnel mechanics when you're trying to not tunnel shouldn't be a thing.)