WilliamSN
WilliamSN
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526252#Comment_3526252
there' is absolutely no way you can twist the definition of tunnelling to make BBQ a tunnel perk, it is by design and execution in every sense an anti-tunnel perk.
i think your confusing difference between tunneling and camping. i would say bbq is maybe anti-camping but it is very much tunnel heavy perk. you can use the information to not tunnel but that is just make game a lot harder for you as killer. Just like you stated, it is not even good anti-camp perk because... you can return the hook using info.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526259#Comment_3526259
i think your crutching too hard on aura perks and your not adapting to your opponents perks. perk is fine where it is at. sometimes i use distortion as survivor if i don't want to get chased but most of the time, i don't feel like i need the perk in many situations because most killer are highly loopable.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526253#Comment_3526253
Sole survivor and shadowstep are examples of perks that are for the most part properly balanced.
you have to be joking. that is some crazy killer bias to tell survivor mains that these are good perks.
One. Come up with a reasonable argument as to how BBQ n chili is a "tunneling perk".
Two. Theres no "adapting" if a singular perk counters an entire build, survivors complain that killers bring too much regression, so killers bring aura builds... then they get hit with distortion making the killer pretty much perkless and all it takes is 1 perk slot on the survivor.
Three. No it shows survivor bias on survivor mains when in order for yall to classify a perk as "good" it has to be so busted you're essentially playing on auto pilot much to the likes of WOO , Resi, MFT, Adren, etc etc. and anything else that requires minimal brain input is instantly classified as "trash".
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526156#Comment_3526156
According to nightlight, average kill rate right now is 52.772369% (weighted average by pickrate from last 28 days) which is more then 50% (the only fair number - but those 53% are close enough). What is your source?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526200#Comment_3526200
Not just win. You can get chess merchant for a very miserable game for 50+ minutes. If she is spicy and refuses to hook - you can try to bleedout which takes another 30mins (down, pickup, let survivor wiggle off, down again). IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME THING!
And if flashlights are such a huge problem for you (it's absolutely no problem for me - because basically it's almost always free slowdown for you once you learn to play against it), you can still bring single perk that counters every blind-inducing perk/item/addon survivor can bring.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526272#Comment_3526272
You are not asking to make games miserable to bully squads. You are asking to make games miserable for SWF. That's so imprecise as telling killers have no counterplay and can win 1340+ times in a row once they get good with it (there's a comp blight main with said continuing win streak). Also - bully squad is today such a broad term as tunneling or gen rushing - ask for a definition from 10 people and you get 11 answers.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526280#Comment_3526280
Yes. Do this
claiming "50% rate is the fair number" is borderline survivor bias, thats 6 hooks out of 12, by all intents and purposes thats a stomp match for survivor, 60%+ is much more balanced , 8 hooks out of 12 , a fair match close match for both sides.
Complaining about "chess merchant" is once again, ridiculous, the fault falls more on survivors than the killer if the game draws out for too long, you have 4 people to do 3 gens, stop playing hypersafe and dipping as soon as you catch the faintest whiff of the TR.
Casual SWF's wouldn't be affected by a change like this if bully SWF's from the start of DBD weren't going out of their way to make killer players absolutely miserable. Right now the only reasonable way to opt out of a horrible time is knowing whos SWFing so you can dodge.
A change like this would encourage SWF's to not be a-holes in order for killers to not dodge out of SWF's entirely, hence stopping the toxicity cycle. Long term a simple change like this would improve the health of the game and reduce toxicity.
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On the "killers are winstreaking with 1000s +" comment.
You're forgetting the very crucial element that is DBD matchmaking, putting a top 0.001% MMR killer in a 1400 MMR lobby (Maximum softcap) will always result in the killer winning not because killer is "OP" but because the skill gap is just that huge.
in the end Killer winstreak remarks will always be irrelevant points.
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bringing up "matchmaking" as a counter argument to killers asking for the most miniscule of ability to tell if they are going to be in actual real physical pain thanks to flashlight induced migraines is quite frankly, ridiculous.
lobby shopping is quite literally survivor induced thanks to bully squads, the fix to that starts with discouraging and punish bully squads by making them take longer to find matches, not force the killers to endure 10-20 minutes of torture.
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Much like the haddonfield map rework they can just go "Hey, GOJ is too unbalanced, we'll killswitch it until we fix it"
if they can't fix the map in a reasonable amount of time, atleast dont force players to endure said map.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526231#Comment_3526231
This is peak survivor main mental gymnastics.
there is no mental gymnastics. tunneling is focusing one person down. there is many forms of tunneling. it isn't just hook people, watch them get unhooked and chase people. the game is not that simple. distortion is indirect anti-tunnel perk towards aura reading perks. it does that job very well.
The design of the perk is clearly intended to be limited uses just by the mere fact its token based, the easiness of token gain is whats problematic.
the token aspect of the perk is to prevent it from countering constant aura reading such as scratch mirror myer's. amanda letter pig, etc.
there is perk that counters all wall-hacking for yourself but it is terrible perk. sole survivor. its condition is that you become immune to aura reading the more people die. if the condition was reversed to be you are immune to aura reading for as many people are alive, then it would be stronger distortion. there is also boon shadow step but that one requires totem and can be snuffed. those perks are purposely not very good for specific reasons.
Ah yes, my favorite kind of tunneling, hooking you, finding someone else, hooking them, and then going crossmap to stop you from popping the gen....
Tunneling is exclusively focusing 1 survivor down at all costs, if the killer chases and hooks someone else then comes back to check the gen near the place you got hooked initially, you're not being tunneled, thats just natural game progression.
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Sole survivor and shadowstep are examples of perks that are for the most part properly balanced.
Sole survivor prevents aura reads only when the killer is within a certain range of you, AND IF you have dead teammates already. it doesn't hard counter entire aura builds from the start of the game and troughout the game with just 1 perk slot like distortion does.
Making distortion not regen tokens while in chase or just *while in chase* would be a perfectly fine nerf that doesn't break the perk in the slighest while preventing it from being a permanent aura build counter.
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Likes - I personally enjoy the quick chase starts that the tunnels + LP allow you to do, not to mention being able to act very quickly on BBQ info resulting in extreme map pressure
The tail attack allows for interesting mind games via fakeout and window/pallet prefiring.
Tail attack is also a permanent threat so it makes survivors have to decide if they want to drop the pallet to get the stun in order prevent the tail strike, or greed and concede a M1.
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Dislikes - The tunnel system sometimes is extremely unentuitive especially on shacks with basement , Midwich+RPD+Haddonfield, Main buildings etc. on those structures the tunnel entrance is often 2 miles away from the actual exit so making use of the footsteps is impossible.
Most add-ons are useless with the only 2 good ones being the yellow crew headset for 6m extra of footstep detection and emergency helmet to be able to tank a bit more of flame before going out of runner mode.
The turrets while fine in general need a couple of tweaks. for instance, removing the invincibility frames it gets after xeno comes out of tunnels and reducing the detection range from 41 meters to something more reasonable
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526219#Comment_3526219
if distortion does not protect you vs bbq/nowhere to hide tunnelling then the perk is legit useless. it does exactly what it is designed to do.
How does BBQ, a perk that encourages you to go crossmap to act on info, promote tunneling...?
How does NWTH promote tunneling when you have to kick a gen to get 24m aura reading around you....?
This is peak survivor main mental gymnastics.
Distortion getting a very minor token earning requirement so it isn't up 100% of the game providing free value is something that should be welcomed.
The design of the perk is clearly intended to be limited uses just by the mere fact its token based, the easiness of token gain is whats problematic.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526198#Comment_3526198
what is the point of the perk if the perk does not protect you vs 1 aura reading perk? if you run 4 aura perks, the perk does not protect you. it only protects you if you use 1 or 2 of them.
there are some perks that work based off screams like thwack and face the darkness. those go through distortion unless stealth player also equips calm spirit.
Its not that distortion is "overpowered" , its more so the simple fact that one perk can nullify an entire Aura build for essentially free.
if the requirement to gain a token got changed to "must be in chase" or "does not recharge while in chase" it would be alot more balanced, right now it consumes a token, but you can quickly regen it back while hiding, or it regens 2 tokens while in chase if you happen to be found either way.
Its to a point where distortion feels like its always up and ready to trigger the whole match.
(Not to mention distortion encouraging killers to tunnel the distortionless teammates)
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525617#Comment_3525617
Exactly. Same as seeing lobby is 4man. It doesn't even matter if those 4 can't chase and don't have comms. Exactly the same thing.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525518#Comment_3525518
I play killer more then swf these days... Also, soloQ is so miserable, that it's the only role I refuse to touch.
And no. Comms are definitely NOT the main reason. Mmr is.
And another thing - don't try to kid anyone in here. You want the info to lobby dodge for very easy soloQ games. Because soloQ is basically free win for every slighly experienced killer (you just have to find that 1 missmatched weak survivor and turn the game to 3v1 for no brain super easy win even if you are much less experienced then the other 3 survs).
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525715#Comment_3525715
This is so not true.
1, killers still have above 50% kill rate
2, Hens's experiment for trappless addonless no camp no tunnel no slug experiment still yealds over 90% escape rate in pubs. This patch. So you are trying to tell me it's impossible to win in high mmr with killers that have/use abilities and addons? Or is it in fact skill issue?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526038#Comment_3526038
Killers should endure being lobby dodged if they are so disgusting to go against.
see? I can make the same argument and it's just as valid. Because going against C33 ring comp blight on one side and 3-gen locking kick simulator skull merchant on the other side is exactly that. Same for a whole long list of other killers.
No, your argument is not "as valid".
you're trying to claim a killer playing with certain add-ons / perks that enable them to win is the same level of "disgusting" as a SWF bringing 4 flashlights, head on , flashbang, etc, just to make the killer's playtime absolutely miserable.
Killer cannot opt out of the match once its loaded to avoid this crap, meanwhile survivors can hookicide if they go up against your so called "disgusting playstyles"
Bottom line is, knowing if the match youre about to play is going to give you flashlight induced migraines is very different from knowing if the match you're about to play is against a little bit of a more compy blight.
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@adaw0ng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526022#Comment_3526022
Strongly disagree with you. Most long matches are pre-set by killers sitting down in one singular area where gens are holding hands and refuse to leave said area. My idea will only punish them since their buildl, usage of power and strategy relies on just sitting there and if anything hitting once with sloppy butcher, not the rest of killers.
you can disagree all you want, but you're still fundamentally wrong.
you're 4 survivors to 3 gens, if you stick to them instead of playing ultra safe you'll break the 3 gen very quickly.
The killers job is to prevent the survivors from escaping, regressing the gens is one way to acheive that, the killer cannot be in 3 places at once, chasing 4 survivors simultaneously, stop being afraid of the TR or being hooked and just stick the M1 on the gen.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525267#Comment_3525267
I'm talking about statistics and usage rates. Larger population size will generally be more accurate, and since BHVR has 100% usage rates they will always be guaranteed to have more accurate data than Nightlight or any other source.
There is also zero indication of MMR in game, in data sent to nightlight, or anywhere except internally at BHVR. Claiming to be at a certain MMR is just ego puffery unless or until they officially make that number visible.
Most everyone tends to think of themselves as 'above average', which is, again, statistically impossible.
You can still make a very educated guess about your mmr just with lobby average playtimes.
A lobby of people where each player has 5k + hours is most likely a high mmr lobby, and the inverse is also true, a lobby of people with 500 hours each is likely low mmr.
Now onto the data part.
It's blatantly obvious that low mmr data is infact worthless data, self cares high pick rate is due to it being a free perk and a newbie trap, ain't nobody in theie right mind claiming selfcare is busted, yet it's in the top 10 most used.
Nightlight is obviously not a website frequented by casual and lower mmr players, hence the data there will by logic alone consist of mid-high mmr players.
Mid to high mmr data is the only data that matters to determine the balance status of perks since thats the brackets where people know what they are doing.
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@CatnipLove said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525511#Comment_3525511
So it would be okay if survivors could see which killer they are up against before the match, so they can dodge the killers they hate? I mean if we are okay with making matchmaking even worse, why not.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525692#Comment_3525692
So there is a valid complaint about lobby dodging, but it doesn't matter cos you have feelings? Thanks for telling me how hard you have it instead of acknowledging what I said.
You're trying to compare killers being able to tell if a match is going to be potentially sweaty/bully tier SWFs with survivors being able to see what killer they are up against and their powers.
It doesnt take a PHD in game design to understand that survivors being able to see what kind of killer they are up against would allow survivors to bring direct counter perks to the killers power.
Got plague / legion? Bring mft,resi and other "while injured " perks.
Got doctor? Bring calm spirit.
Got huntress or trickster? Bring distortion.
Etc etc.
SWFs wouldn't run the risk of getting lobby dodged if they weren't so disgusting to play against, trying to force someone else to endure 50 chainblinds, 20 pallet stuns and 2 minutes of tbagging at gates is just peak survivor main entitlement.
Pattern recognition exists for a reason, and the killer playerbase identifies swfs and high prestige solos as potentially unfun due to horrible experiences with said groups.
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Hes not wrong though, long matches are more often than not fault of the survivors for playing extremely safe.
As soon as survivors hear the TR they scramble into hiding or to the other side of the map, whats the killer supposed to do when he sees a progressed gen and no survivor? Just let it stay as is? Spend 5 minutes combing trough the desert in hopes of finding the immersed claudette?
I'd rather they shorten the maximum game time to 30 minutes or anything lower to discourage hyper safe survivor gameplay than punish killer for doing his job.
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It's important to identify the root cause of *why* people are gravitating to stronger killers.
And the answer is very simple, current survivor meta is so unhealthy that the only way for killer players to compete is by playing the strongest killers.
Alot of casual killer players have either stopped playing or swapped to survivor because of this MFT+resi+WOO meta allowing survivors to *look* like they are good without being good. Now you're stuck playing with "competitive" killer mains.
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Also a "killer repeat prevention" would mean you'd be stuck in queue for over an hour considering the bp bonus is on killer 99% of the time.
Nuke the current meta and casual killers would come back to playing ghostface, pig, myers etc since it wouldn't equate to self sabotage.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525970#Comment_3525970
Everyones homework in this thread is to play 10 games of solo survivor. I am not asking you to "trust me bro" the 61% killrate came directly from behavior. You have the same problem as the last dude, you don't read.
The 61 killrate came from almost a year ago, a basic look into nightlight tells you killrates have dropped considerably into low 50s high 40s.
Secondly, playing solo Q is irrelevant, you can die 100% of your matches yet your other 3 teammates escape. Your deathrate is 100% yet the killers killrate is only 25%.
Stop trying to project your skill issue as a problem everyone has.
Stop trying to pull the "killrate" statistics when your understanding of basic statistics just doesn't exist.
(You've yet to provide a valid argument as to why a killer hud update would increase killrates)
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Even if op is hyperboling with the 3 gens in 50 seconds, it's still ridiculous that the game can be over in under 5 minutes.
Checking speedrun.com dbd you see people doing sub 3 minute escapes while swifing and sub 5 minute while *solo*
It's blatantly obvious something is very wrong with the game when it comes to survivor gen efficiency when solos can pull off sub 5 minute games.
Most if it boils down to the spawn system sticking survivors 1m away from a gen at spawn.
Any killer that mains lethal persuer for a while will notice the ridiculous survivor spawns, they either spawn in 2 clusters of 2 with gens 1m away, hence putting you on 45s timer till gen pops or they spawn fully separate with gens 1m away from them, by the time you hook somebody 3 gens are popped with a 4th and 5th on the way.
View Dead by Daylight speedruns, leaderboards, forums and more on Speedrun -
@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525919#Comment_3525919
You might want to get checked for reading comprehension, because I have provided more than plenty. As much as I would like to sit here and keep writing the same sentences over and over and over again. You read the words I wrote but did you really read the words I wrote? I don't think so.
I see there's no point in trying to get a reasonable argument out of you.
It seems your whole premise is that you want killers to not have basic QOL changes because it doesn't benefit you or survivors in general.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525915#Comment_3525915
Bro, BHVR literally gave a statement of why survivor got a HUD overhaul. I have said it at least 14 times in this thread alone. That on it's own should completely negate any argument you have for a killer HUD. KILLERS DON'T HAVE TEAMMATES.
I didn't ask for a behavior statement on why survivor hud got updated, i asked you to provide a valid argument as to why killers getting a hud update would increase killrates.
I've asked this of you for 4-5 posts and you keep missing the mark.
*provide a valid argument as to why a killer hud update would increase killrates*
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525907#Comment_3525907
I have provided several. One it makes no sense thematically or game play wise. Two it would buff the already power house side of the game. Three it would be abused by killers with rat intentions in mind. Four it's a waste of development time if it's things you should already be able to keep track of.
1. Only thing you did was complain about "kill rates"
2. Bringing up "thematics" and "gameplay wise" out of nowhere makes no sense.
3. What even is "rat intentions"? Expand and elaborate on this.
4. Same could be said about survivor hud, survivors should also be able to keep track of their hook states , if their teammates are on gens, etc etc. This is a fundamentally invalid argument.
Again, provide us an argument that supports the concept that a killer hud would "increase kill rates"
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525900#Comment_3525900
You guys are coped out of your mind. Why stop there? Show the killer everyones perks in the lobby ffs.
No one is asking for that, i asked you to provide a valid argument as to why status effect info and hook counters would increase kill rates.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525869#Comment_3525869
You can't leave the killrates out. I am losing you because you know I am right. You can't give the killers more info without them becoming stronger. Every single one of you also keeps ignoring the silmple fact of why they added the survivor HUD in the first place. Killers don't have teammates, why would they get a HUD lol.
Give me a valid argument as to why killers being given basic status effect info would "raise the kill rates"
Basekit bt? Killers can already count to 10, having the status shown on the hud would only help new killers.
OTR? Experienced killers can tell if OTR is in play when the survivor is dead silent after unhook, it would only help new killers.
Haste? Experienced killers can already tell if the survivor has haste due to heavy muscle memory. It would only help new killers understand why survivor x is running faster than him.
The only thing all killers would benefit is knowing which of the million of endurance giving perks the survivors have. Was this endurance from mft? Buckle up? Soul guard? WGLF? Styptic?
Whats the hook counter for killer going to do? If a killer wants to tunnel he just needs to hook meg until death, counter won't assist in tunneling and experienced killers can already keep a mental note of whos on death hook and who isn't.
Bridge the gap when it comes to basic game knowledge between high level and low level players and then bhvr can properly balance the core game.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525769#Comment_3525769
The kill rates massively disagree with your perception of the game.
You mean the current 50% Killrate? killer is at its weakest thanks to current survivor meta being unbelievably busted.
Killrate average is only at 50% thanks to sadako and SM having 60%s while everyone else is low 50s high 40s.
Killers deserve a proper hud update to be able to make educated decisions instead of chasing the guy with MFT + 80 seconds OTR endurance.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525480#Comment_3525480
But you're ignoring killer completely in your statement, "minimally efficient survivors will escape more often than not" against what ? against decent Blight/Wesker/Artist/Nurse/Spirit/Plague/oni... mains ? you can find players with massive winrates even with weakest m1s, I think it depends it's not that simple
Killer choice is irrelevant, you can't balance around matchmaking being horrible and giving you a fresh install surv squad vs a 10k hour killer.
My statement is always based on both roles being equally high experienced players, and the "comp scene" is the best example we have of what happens when skill levels are equally high, and when both sides are equally proficient survivors have a high escape rate hence you can deduce that survivors are inherently benefited by the game.
The only reason you find low tier m1s win streaking is not because of killer bias, but because of poor matchmaking putting average killer players against casual survivors
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525355#Comment_3525355
So what you are saying is they added the survivor HUD to bridge the gap between soloQ and SWF which if I remember correctly was over a 10% difference in kill rate between SWFs and SoloQ squads. And the purpose of the killer HUD would be to do what? Bring the 65% kill rate to 70%?
Give me a detailed explanation as to how a killer getting an icon next to the survivors name indicating they have haste or any other effect would increase kill rates.
If anything it would help standardize the "skill level" between mid mmr and high mmr killers.
High mmr killers can already accurately tell if a survivor has haste due to experience, while lower skill levels struggle to do the same.
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@Hensen2100 said:
I don't even mind slugging for the 4k
What I do hate is when the killer slugs for the 4k, doesn't find the last survivor, and then picks up and drops the survivor until they escape and works with them to find the last survivor. Too many people go along with it and still get killed at the end anyways
I have never ratted a teammate out no matter how annoyed I am at them. If two survivors die at like 4-5 gens left and the last two survivors have no option but to hide and hope they are not the first one found, so be it. Not sure why people get salty you stop doing gens when the game is clearly unwinnable
Because if you refuse to do gens and hide all game youre effectively holding the game hostage.
The fact that the hatch mechanic encourages survivors to hide and hold the game hostage for unreasonable amounts of time indicates it needs to be looked at and reworked aswell as the anti afk mechanic needing to trigger way sooner.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525364#Comment_3525364
Interesting you think "comp dbd" is representative of average dbd players, comp dbd is 1% of the playerbase, if you're actually good at killer and you're not playing nicely you can win most games fairly easily, it's everywhere on twitch and youtube killers with hundred of wins in a row
why is no one able to escape more than 10-15 solo q games in a row if game is so survivor sided ? surely you should see massive escape streaks, explain i'm curious. If you're only playing trapper/freddy the game is not killer sided i give you that
The "average dbd player" is not whats in question here. Factually and objectively, when survivors are minimally proficient at their job, the survivors will escape more often than not. Thats the sign of a survivor sided game, and that was the whole point of the "comp dbd" comparison.
Secondly, I'd expect you'd be smart enough to understand that survivor escape streaks are intirely dependent on multiple external factors and often don't show the real picture.
You can lose your escape streak, but the game was a 3 hook game with a 3 man out where the killer stood no chance.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525335#Comment_3525335
Game is killer sided even at average level of play, balance is just horribly bad because 3-4 people on voice com is an unfair advantage, if you play solo Q rn your chance of escape is way lower than 50% against decent killers , Idk why people are even arguing with me 500 games is way too small anyway, high mmr or low doesn't matter it's not enough
The game is fundamentally survivor sided.
When the game is played even slightly optimally by both sides survivors tend to escape more often than not. This is not something you can argue on since thats what happens in "comp dbd" where both sides are proficient players.
Your whole argument is equivalent to "when survivors dont know what they are doing the game is killer sided"
Killer is very straightforward, chase survivor, down them and hook them , there's not much nuance to it. Hence even a fresh install killer can feel strong against a fresh install survivor but that doesn't mean the game is killer sided.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525233#Comment_3525233
Sample size is way too small, take Dredge as example his 56% killrate is based on 495 games, same for Plague, Demo,Trickster, Freddy, Artist, Hag, Twins, less than 500 games... and most likely high mmr games, low mmr is a lot more killer sided
Low mmr should never be considered when it comes to balancing purposes.
Low mmr is just 4 survivors that spend 10 minutes looking for a gen and when the killer finds them they don't know looping basics so they last 10 seconds.
Low mmr is not killer sided, its just a hold W race where the guy going 115 is obviously going to win said race.
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A very easy fix would be to put the status effects in the same space the "broken" effect goes in.
The status icons already exist, just let killers know via status icon as to why the survivor they are chasing is faster than normal.
Right now perk feedback for killers is awful , you can't tell if starstruck activated on the person you're chasing, you don't know if they are blind, oblivious , exhausted from bloodecho or fearmonger , etc etc.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3524643#Comment_3524643
Because in statistics, population is everything.
An English website that tracks volunteered information and is, at minimum, subject to user bias in submissions should be taken as exactly that and no more.
It's an interesting read, but to extrapolate that it's somehow better and more accurate than BHVR's 100% of the player base statistics is insane and grossly incorrect.
The margin of error can be incredibly large. Nightlight doesn't even usually include self care in the top 10 perks. BHVR consistently has self care in the top 5, usually the top 3. That's a massive difference.
The thing with nightlight is that since its a website that appeals to more competitive people you'll get stats from the higher MMR's.
Its blatantly obvious that self-care and spinechill aren't perks you see in mid to high MMR lobbies even though according to "official stats" you should expect to see it fairly often.
Dismissing nightlight because it doesn't include stats from the low MMR bracket where nobody knows what they are doing resulting in worthless data, is just intelectual dishonesty.
Mid to high MMR is the only valuable dataset since thats where people become effecient and know how to optimize the game and abuse perks/game mechanics, and that just so happens to be the crowd nightlight appeals to.
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@TheWarNung said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3524369#Comment_3524369
"If killers play well NOED will be a dead slot."
This is true against normal teams but against top tier players it's flagrantly false, hence why NOED is a go-to choice in comp tournaments.
As someone who plays both sides I must say that I'm an extremely average survivor and an extremely good killer. As such, I'm constantly playing against coordinated SWFs. Against those teams even when you're dominating you'll almost always lose all the gens.
I never run NOED myself, because I always try to play chill and base my builds around playing against chill teams, but at my MMR (whatever it is), I can't fault killers for running NOED.
That is exactly my original point, NOED is only viable at high mmr because the game when played optimally is extremely survivor sided and 9/10 times all gens will be done by the time you get 6 hooks.
The game at its core, needs to have maps shortened and tile strength decreased , just turning all shacks into a version of Dead Dawg shack would be a good start.
Putting an actual limitiation on certain survivor perks is also required. *being injured* is not a valid perk limitation, makes no sense for survivors to be stronger when they are injured and permanently while so.
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3524369#Comment_3524369
If you never make it to end game Adrenaline is a dead perk. That doesn't make the perk bad.
NOED brings easy value that demands an answer from the survivors and can by itself give you kills you wouldn't get otherwise.
I don't care if the perk can also be countered, the perk can give you 1 or 2 free kills.
Also if you managed to end the game before end game, why are complaining? You got the win with 3 perks, good for you. But the perk is an insurance if things go bad.
Turns out that gen regression perks are countered by survivors gen rushing, you ain't regressing a completed gen
Claiming noed is "1 -2 free kills" is factually wrong, survivors dont magically teleport to the hook as soon as noed activates, it still requires a chase and hit, and its a Hex, you can remove it from play.
However, things that ARE free value are Hope, Adren, Resi, MFT,Windows , deja vu etc etc and they have *no counter*..
If you claim noed is "good" then by logic alone, all the survivor perks i've listed have to be considered beyond busted.
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@BlueHorkew said:
Still don't know where the idea that NOED is bad came.
NOED + NWO is a banned combo in comp. NOED was always one of the most picked perks in comp and in general.
NOED is a good perk, who knew...
How is noed a "Good perk", if the killer plays well noed will be a dead slot, on the other hand if you do happen to reach end game, its effects at most are usable for 30 seconds.
Only way it would be a "good perk" is if it was basekit, that way survivors would have to choose between wasting time doing totems or risk dealing with a potential 1 hit down in the end game.
The only reason Noed is used at "comp level" is because when DBD is played optimally by both sides, the game heavily favours survivors and you're almost guarantee to make it to end game.
This current survivor meta is so god awful that kill averages are now at 50ish% according to nightlight stats.
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@WingerSenpai said:
I think you missed the part where killers could hold the game hostage until the servers had enough and matches hit the time limit thanks to Eruption, Call of Brine and Overcharge, (or whatever the 3rd perk was in the combo) which basically stunted the survivors ability to progress the game for 30 seconds. That patch was literally almost unplayable. Or the times when killers constantly get good or even great perks while survivors (last exception is MFT) get mediocre perks at the very best.
Also remember the perk overhaul where most survivor perks got tuned down, very few saw real changes and killer perks as far as I was concerned were yet again, get QOL changes/buffs. So I don't know where you got the bright idea that this game was survivor sided, but if you commit to a single player, not spread pressure, not learn a killer properly or you are a beginner with it (<-- in most of these cases the lack of experience causes loses, or getting survivors way above your skill level) don't mind losing the game because that's on you.
But I wonder then:
- How come there is only about 10-15 killer perks seen overall throughout most matches when there are a lot of perks which are underrated yet can perform exceptionally
- everybody runs one of 5-8 killers when all of them are viable (in a lot of scenarios)
- Always see high-tier add-ons when they should be scarce/expensive/change play style/straight up overpowered as hell
- stick to one strategy throughout most of the game (camping/3-gening/tunneling)
My answer is that most killers who started playing this game now only play the "easy mode", same goes for most survivors. And that's how a game gets boring. Everyone runs meta and metas are usually stale. Remember when gens couldn't be kicked and still killers got 4k-s across the boards without runing noed, being a nurse etc? I still do. And sadly that was a buggier and less polished period of the game, but then you didn't have 90% of the games getting tunneled/having to tunnel. What changed? Because in my opinion most of the annoyances are pretty much gone, and there are enough perks on killers to compensate for weaknesses and for survivors to focus on an aspect or give a little boost to all of them.
But it's funny that you wanna tunnel and that's because they made a good change for once for survivor players (sorry 2nd good one being removing hook grabs [yet hits still interrupt]) that they don't play with 3 perk slots (bt was a must back then, you must remember). But go ahead, tunnel, be competetive, ruin a game for others, because it seems like a trend with killers with your taste to be selfish/arogant and straight out not value others' opinions.
1 . Survivors have as much fault if not more if a game lasts over 30 minutes. You have 4 Survivors , thats 1 Survivor per gen with an extra to spare. If you can't pop a single gen , then you're playing too safe.
2. There's a difference between killers choosing the best out of mediocre perks and survivors choosing the best out of busted perks.
For example Regression perks got nuked so hard that only pop is worth running. Bring ruin? Cleansed in 30 seconds. Bring pain res? 4 uses. Bring COB? You only get an extra 0.3 charges of Regression value before a surv taps it.
Meanwhile survivors get to play with 4 perks that just buff them permanently + a 5th perk in the form of basekit BT.
3. When the game is played at its most optimal state , survivors are much more likely to win than killer, watching a couple matches of "comp dbd" is enough to see this in action.
If a side is more likely to win due to factors outside of skill, it lets you know theres a blatant balance problem.
4. Killer players are indeed forced to play the same 3-4 "op" characters because not doing so is effectively self sabotage largely due to point 3.
Aslong as bhvr keeps putting out busted survivor perks like old DH, current mft, COH, etc etc the more casual killer players will stop playing or swap to survivor, and you'll be left facing the ones that play dbd for a living.
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DBD doesn't appeal to "SWF" it appeals to minimally coordinated survivors.
they have to bridge the gap between "swf" and soloQ by implementing some features from DBD mobile into DBD base like the chat feature : https://youtu.be/DCZLGYpfbxo?t=467
They could have the chat thing work like CSGO's Quick chat, Press Z then the number corresponding to the sentence you want , or alternatively a "chat wheel" like Overwatch/Left 4 dead, where you press Z then Mouse over to the command you want.
When SoloQ gets close to SWF in terms of coordination then BHVR can start making changes to fix DBD's survivor sidedness.
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If teamwork perks didn't have the ridiculous cooldown effect they would be a perfectly balanced perk.
TWPO2 - Gives you a very strong effect of 5% haste , BUT you have to meet certain criteria for it to remain active. (Id argue increasing the radius to 16m would be okay too).
But sadly BHVR flips between making perks that provide unlimited free value and perks that have such ridiculous requirements and lengthy cooldowns they are equivalent to dead slots.
There's even less of a reason to run TWPO2 when you have MFT providing you 3% haste and doesn't have a CD or a requirement other than "get hit by the killer"
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3520434#Comment_3520434
Because you can try to self unhook in all other contexts. It doesn't make sense IMO to have this be an exception
Only thing this change does is increase the time it takes for you to be killed for no legitimate reason.
The game is over, you're not going to do however many gens you have left when you unhook straight into the killer.
All this boils down to is "I want a chance to waste the killers time a bit more even though i clearly lost the game"
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3520434#Comment_3520434
The Killer doesn't deserve the free kill at the end either. You might as well say that Survivors should automatically escape when all gens are powered and not waste the Killer's time trying to catch them all last minute.
Game is not over until the doors are opened, EVEN THEN in what planet does a killer finding, double hitting, and hooking a survivor means he "doesn't deserve" the kill. this is some peak survivor main mental gymnastics.
The only circumstance that the killers time is wasted is when survivors wait at the gate to t-bag and whatnot , this is a whole other can worms that needs to be adressed.
This is peak false equivalancy because theres no game for the last survivor, only a consolation prize trough hatch , on the other hand once the gates are powered theres still game for killer since the gates need to be opened and you can defend those.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3520165#Comment_3520165
yeah i'm gonna be honest bud, all of this reads as "it is your responsibility as a good teammate to your fellow survivors to give me, an exclusive killer player, free kills, and anything that gets in the way of me getting as many sacrifices as possible is bad game design and bad gameplay"
killer brings a perk? you better be a god at bodyblocking and intentionally let yourself get downed while also mind controlling your teammate to make the optimal play and not vault into the killer. killer just decides not to chase you for whatever reason? well obviously its beause you didn't help your team, because there's no way the killer wouldn't be camping/immediately return to hook/drop chase with you. you did all the work for your team? don't care, i want my sacrifice so you're wrong. i want my sacrifices, and i can't possibly be wrong, so anyone who disagrees with me must be doing something bad so they deserve to lose
You still make no valid argument as to why you, rng'd as the obsession deserves a second shot at hatch when the game is clearly over.
I'll always point out that for you to reach 0 hooks to endgame, you atleast threw your last teammate under the bus to reach that state, theres no reason as to why you wouldn't go for the rescue yourself if your team is all death hook.
The match is over, theres no legitimate reason as to why you should be allowed to waste the killers time just so you get a second chance at the consolation prize.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3512193#Comment_3512193
what if the killer has STBFL and has intentionally avoided me, the obsession, all game? what if i've sucessfully evaded the killer for most of the game but got downed once as the killer's 10th hook? what if the killer's face camped every single survivor they caught and my teammates foolishly refused to do gens while the face camp was happening?
there's no need to blanket assume someone being the last survivor alive automatically means they're a bad teammate, there are just some of the many conceivable circumstances off the top of my head where that's obviously not the case
STBFL - You can notice the killer has it when he avoids M1ing you, but not every one else, at this point its on you (the obsession) to try to bodyblock and force stack loss , even then you dont deserve 2 shots at the consolation prize just because you RNG'd as the obsession
Theres no scenario at which you're 0 hooks at 10 hooks unless you intentionally avoided saves, you dont deserve 2 chances at the consolation prize
if your whole team isnt doing gens you still dont deserve 2 shots at the consolation prize just because you happen to luck out as the last person to be hooked
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These stats are pretty much on par with nightlight.
It's one of my major grievances with the current meta, survivors using a full shift W build, then complain that they need "anti tunnel mechanics" instead of switching their perks around.
If you dont have perks do discourage tunneling, why would the killer bother going after the guy with 2 healthstates and 0 hooks over the guy thats on 1 healthstate and double hooked?
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@GhostlyRemnant said:
No one runs borrowed time cause it doesn’t mean much now and I’m still getting tunneled where killers just wait for the endurance to run out. I understand some people use it to body block for their savers but honestly tunneling is still just as much a problem as it was before, all you did was make it take 8 seconds longer or whatever
10s not enough? Swap your perks around and grab OTR, thats 80 seconds of endurance.
Stop demanding basekit perks , survivors already play with 5 perks thanks to basekit BT, anything more and it gets ridiculous.
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@Manky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3516903#Comment_3516903
That would make it useless. Dead hard got the same treatment and now that perk is a distant memory. 3% is not overpowered, the endurance is. For reference, if you run in a straight line with MFT, the killer will catch you faster than if you ran in a straight line with Sprint Burst. The 3% is on par with other exhaustion perks, but its the endurance on top of that which makes the perk ridiculous. 3% for 60 seconds really wouldn't do anything for anti tunnelling, and it would take away any use the perk ever had.
Deadhard is still seen fairly often, and now it doesn't feel as BS as it used to.
On the topic of MFT, the problem with MFT is that the 3% paired with survivors having smaller hitboxes compared to killers, in loops the "real world" effect is much greater than 3%
After 5 seconds in a straight line you're 0.6m ahead of where you should be, in a loop the "real world value" increases to almost a full meter.
30 seconds of MFT is more than enough for it to provide value. 3.6m of distance in straight line, and closer to 6m in loops.
Overall , MFT and resi both make the injured status much more safe than it should be while also giving survivors a boost to gen repairs.
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@Nikolaifly said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3517000#Comment_3517000
But it feels like they arent allowed to have fun perks. I agree dh was more fun but I do honestly think MFT is fun I like going faster and theres nothing wrong with that. Its just any fun perks we get, get nerfed immediatley.
Old DH and MFT might seem fun to you but its extremely unfun for killers when they have no counterplay.
Alternatively one could argue that slowdown with COB, erup and OC was "fun" for killers , but not as enjoyable for survivors.
Can't have busted perks on the excuse of "well it is FUUUUUNNN"
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@rafajsp said:
Honestly, at this point I hope some company buys the game because this team has no idea how to balance anything, they keep patching band-aid here and there ... revamping Demongorgon (barely seen or played Killer even for who have the DLC) when there ARE things N times more important !!!
Instead of taking some ideas from community or even competitive matches (ban some perks, no duplicates etc etc etc) no ! "Why ? ... We have no competition on our game"
Instead of doing/testing new things ... they decided to make maps smaller and gens spawns closer. Such a smart decision.
Rarely do I see the community being heard and I wonder why I still waste my time playing this game or even coming to foruns.
Even Nurses are camping 3gens over and over and over. Talking about Nurse ... well doesn't matter.
For solo players it's a frustrating match, because you "swin, swin, swin and die at the beach"
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YTLUS8XCRLLC/1-png.png
If youre getting "3 gend" that often, consider swapping adrenaline with deja vu.
It's on you to swap your perks out, not on bhvr to make it so you don't have to.
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@CatnipLove said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3517011#Comment_3517011
We get a bot. It's better than nothing. Some players only get connection issues a few times a day. Should those people get a 24 hour ban after a couple of days? I don't think so.
And if we wanted to play with AI we would have made a custom match vs AI.
Someones spotty wifi shouldn't punish 4 other people from having a good game.
If your wifi crashes so often that you reach the 24h mark, you should consider single player games.
It takes you 5-6 DCs in a day to reach a 24h ban.
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@CatnipLove said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3516949#Comment_3516949
There's plenty of research on the relationship between punishment and reoffending, and the short version is that punishment works up to a point. Increasing the punishment beyond a certain point doesn't deter certain behaviours any more than a lesser punishment. Punishing players for a DC works, up to a certain point. But extending the severity of the punishment isn't guaranteed to further reduce players leaving the match. But it is guaranteed to harm players with unstable internet.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3516969#Comment_3516969
I'm sorry, me me me what? I have fantastic internet. I don't live with my mum like you probably do, so I can choose to have great internet. This is not a problem I have.
The point I ACTUALLY made was that I just don't think BHVR should be excessively punishing players who live in places like the US, where often they have zero choices as to what ISP they can choose and get stuck wiith trash internet, if they can't even demonstrate that increasing the punishment reduces the amount of DC's. Don't accuse me of being self-centered, whilst dismissing issues that relate to players other than you, when you can't even demonstrate that it's worth screwing over those players.
So by your logic , bhvr should let the people with chronic wifi problems ruin the matches for everyone else.
Your whole argument comes from a selfish point of view. "I should be allowed to ruin matches for everyone else because my wifi is bad and go completely unpunished"
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@Nikolaifly said:
Now LISTEN! I dont think that changing really overpowered things is bad persay, but I thinkthe way dbd does it is somewhat anti-fun.
Both sides should be allowed to have good perks / powers. I dont think MFT needs to be nerfed because its fun, and can be used in fun builds. This goes for overpowered killer perks and powers too. Trying to ruin everything to make the game "more balanced" because some whiney people are complaining is stupid and people will always find a way to complain about something. I think te way to make the game more fun and even more "balanced" will be to BUFF things. Buff fun perks and playstyles! Make it so survivors dont want to genrush, and make it so killers dont want to camp or tunnel because its not as fun.
I play this game to have fun, but it feels like so many people dont. IF you find youself complaining non stop about everything, please take Mathew Cote's advice and play a different game for a week.
Balancing around "fun" is extremely subjective. Like you've stated, you think camping and tunneling aren't "fun" but it surely can be "fun" for some killer players.
On the topic of "MFT is FUUUUNNN" I could make a better argument for old DH being more "fun" than MFT because atleast with old DH you can claim that getting a well timed "parry" felt good to do. Meanwhile MFT is just "oh i got hit, i run 3% faster now".
Both sides are allowed to have good perks, aslong as those perks dont make the matches miserable to play.
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@EmmaFrostyEyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3516821#Comment_3516821
Resilience isnt busted tho, no one was complaining about that perk before so why on earth you complaining about it now
The busted factor of resi and adren is directly correlated to the new injured meta.
Back then people wanted to stay healthy, so resi provided very limited value , and adren at most triggered a sprintburst in endgame.
Right now people skip the healing because slamming the gen with the 9% boost is better , AND once it pops you'll get your healthstate back.
If survivors didn't have as many perks that made the injured state as safe as it is right now, adren and resi would feel balanced.
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@CatnipLove said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3516736#Comment_3516736
What's the point of increasing the intensity of punishments if it doesn't actually decrease the offending behaviour? At that point you're just punishing people because it brings you satisfaction. Which shouldn't be a motivation for how you repremand someone.
Then you have to consider how it affects players with unstable internet. Which is something that many people, depending on where they live, can't do much about. So if increasing DC penalties doesn't decrease the amount of people who leave the match prematurely, and it seriously harms some player's ability to play the game, then what's the point?
Stop thinking with the "me me me" mentality.
Someone ragequitting or leaving due to bad internet impacts the match quality for the other 4 people in the match.
People queue up and expect to find a match with 4 other people, otherwise they would have played custom matches versus AI.
Someones wifi problem or ragequit tendencies shouldn't be encouraged at all, your problems dont justify the 4 others in the match being punished with a lower quality match.