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Wiccamanplays
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I don't think they're nerfing WoO because it's OP but just because it renders other info perks in the same category obsolete. They want more options to create more build diversity and honestly even then I bet a lot of the people who run WoO now will still run it. Only now there will be reasons to run chase info perks other than WoO.
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With current SP you can theoretically have longer Elusive than the person being unhooked if you unhook really aggressively. It doesn't encourage tunnelling per se but it can make not tunnelling less feasible. Stealth/rat builds remove pressure on the individual but foist it on everyone else in the lobby, which can make tunnelling more likely: if one or two Survivors in the lobby are basically invisible half the time, then it stands to reason that the Killer is going to go after the Survivors that aren't simply by virtue of not being able to find the rats.
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Sometimes I don't tunnel so much as the Survivors tunnel themselves. Poor positioning, risky decision-making and a lack of altruism or game-sense means that the team expose a Survivor I've already hooked, and as much as I don't go out of my way to get someone out of the game as quickly as possible, it also feels stupid to see an injured Survivor I've already hooked twice working on a gen directly in front of me and not to do something about it. If the whole team but one person is pre-running with Sprint Burst and stealth perks and I'm an M1 Killer with limited mobility or map control, I don't have many options other than to go for the one poor sap with no exhaustion perks and no idea what's going on who I actually have a chance of catching. If I see someone with a toolbox in the lobby I might go out of my way to find them first and harass them a bit so they can't destroy my generators in the first minute of the trial.
There's also the murkier tactic of tunnelling to exert pressure on the rest of the Survivors. If I believe the Survivors will try and help someone who's in danger, by going after the previously-hooked Survivor I can bait them into getting off gens and maybe giving me a few health states or downs to save them. And if it doesn't work then I can still secure a numerical advantage by 'pulling the ripcord' and getting rid of that Survivor.
A lot of the discussion around tunnelling assumes that Survivors have no agency around it, and that if you get targeted you might as well lay down and give up, but it's not a done deal. Sometimes a Killer's investment into tunnelling a Survivor can backfire and end up wasting precious time. If a Survivor sees the game as getting as many Survivors out of the game or even getting as close to that as possible, sometimes taking one for the team is worth it. The problem is that even though the devs have already put in a lot of protections for Survivors against the hardest forms of tunnelling, the strongest Killers can still circumvent them: Decisive Strike, Dead Hard and basekit Borrowed Time don't really matter to Nurse and Blight (and Judgement can ignore them entirely) but they absolutely wreck Trapper and Ghostface.
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It would make a lot more sense to actually identify why a lot of people don't like playing against certain Killers and addressing their pain points rather than borking queue times and mmr even harder. Playing in a variety of different scenarios that may not always hold your hand and kiss you on the forehead is a part of the DBD learning curve and if you're willing to ruin other people's games simply because you don't like how a given Killer plays means you probably shouldn't play Survivor or even the game at all (do you think Killers like playing into certain perks or maps all the time?).
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I've got two concepts in my head that if I had any artistic talent I'd try and visualise, but unfortunately I'm a writer instead.
The first one is a werewolf Killer called the Accursed who changes from human to monster form by 'tracking' Survivors with enhanced sense, and then becomes fast and really dangerous in beast form with a lunge/pounce like the sprinting attack that werewolves in Skyrim have. The metre for transformation would obviously be a waxing moon. I particularly thought it would be extra messed-up if it's clear from the human form that he doesn't want to do any of this and is trying to warn the Survivors off.
The second was a fairy, but like a folklore-accurate fairy who delights in causing lethal mischief, called The Unseely. They'd have a thorn lash for their weapon and could use magic to grow rose bushes that hinder Survivors passing through them. They'd also have Fairy Rings of mushrooms that they and Survivors could teleport across the map with, but while the Unseely could choose where they go, it's random for Survivors. Obviously they'd constantly be laughing and cooing, occasionally saying something weird in Old Irish, and their Terror Radius would be a jig.
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It's baffling that making the Knight slightly worse in a very specific interaction is more of a priority than so many of the other bugs and problems that have been in the game for the longest time or have been introduced since the Chorus of Sin chapter release. A mid-tier Killer with a below-median pickrate and a slightly below-average kill rate has a potentially problematic interaction in a highly niche scenario? Better get on that tout suite.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
Survivors waste resources to deal with you guards, if guard despawns you can just use said guard to break the pallet after right? I see it as a win potentially.
I personally wish the guards were stunnable like nemmy zombies, just coz I want to hear their laughing screaming asses cut short by a plank of wood.The guards each have cooldowns and it doesn't say anywhere that ending the hunt via despawn accelerates the timer for the cooldown. You still lose whatever pressure you had against that Survivor and the pallet break order also locks you out of your power for its duration.
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I love Knight's capacity to multitask and play tactically, but devs seem committed to making him bad at actually pressuring Survivors. It really sucks that for a whole category of mid-to-lower tier Killers like Knight using your power in chase slows you down more than any benefit you might gain from actually using it.
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I do agree (I'm disabled myself and there are things about the game as Killer that I distinctly struggle with) but I also agree with other commenters that it's a difficult one to balance correctly.
I think an audio indicator when in chase that a Survivor is making noise within a certain radius (without revealing direction) would be something to start with, as would a general overhaul to audio to make Survivor noises more consistent and less buggy for those who are not deaf but hard of hearing or have sensory processing issues.
I know BHVR have basically said they won't do it because they can't be bothered but a basic universal crosshairs option would really help with dealing with some of the VFX or movement you get as Killer (kinda like the one you get as Survivor when hit with a Clown bottle to offset the screen shake and blur).
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I'm not sure if I'm just fed up with a string of 110 Killers with ranged powers but I'm not enjoying the Judgement. The way you have to manoeuvre Divine LIght to get hits in chase isn't necessarily difficult so much as fiddly and unintuitive like Krasue: looking away from the Survivor and then kinda spinning/flicking my camera just doesn't feel good to do and I can't understand how that became the design pathway of choice. That being said, the majority of Judgement play I've seen so far (mostly streamers since I've encountered exactly 1 in my own games) is bringing aura perks and Ruin, sniping generators and totems from a distance and hoping a Survivor isn't looking in the right direction, which is hardly dynamic and expressive gameplay.
The Killer's biggest strength isn't even in the power itself IMO but their ability to bypass hook and unhooking perks, which are by and large the most valuable ones to Survivors right now. No DS, DH, Resurgence, Wicked, Deliverance, We'll Make It, STB, OTR, Reassurance, Kindred, nothing. Pyramid Head can do that, but nowhere near as consistently, since his ranged attack doesn't inflict the necessary debuff. That Heresy also applies the old Ruin effect also feels a little crazy to me: was that actually a necessary balancing condition or just because the devs felt the need to pay lip service to the original design concept of sin and punishment and they had the code lying around?
Since we also have the MMR reset right now it's hard to tell how good Judgement really is just yet, but I can't see many people who mainline Ghoul or Jason switching over.
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Very bad idea on multiple grounds. It would make toxicity a million times worse, so most people would simply not use it, while not actually helping those who do since the majority of Survivors don't know what information to communicate anyway. Moreover, the infrastructure burden of moderating voice chat would be more than BHVR could ever possibly handle when we already know that their reporting system is pretty spotty: how could they track the thousands of hours of voice content in multiple different languages (often in the same match) being generated every day for stuff that's potentially against ToS? At best you'd have a massively cumbersome system diverting resources away from other parts of DBD that need attention and most players wouldn't use it for fear of getting flamed or called slurs when they're trying to concentrate. At worst you'd have some AI slop automod that doesn't even work properly and falsely bans people because it doesn't understand accents.
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Twins would be a top 3 most popular Killer if they weren't ugly and buggy. The power of Victor to slug and snowball IS what makes Twins a threat even to experienced Survivors. That being said, I don't know how you change that part of Twins without making them into a completely different Killer, which isn't going to happen because about 6 people in the world actually play Twins regularly and BHVR's resources are committed to what gets the most attention.
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I fear she's going to be as bad as Krasue in terms of becoming so niche as to be unused. Krasue was busted at launch because the PTB she was on was also full of other bugs and the antitunnel stuff that collectively made her incredibly weak, so the devs overcompensated. Then they nerfed her, but in the wrong places, so she's not weak, but is hard to play, has essentially no skill expression beyond a basic formula and is countered very hard by SWFs or any kind of teamwork, so nobody plays her anymore. And then Stranger Things 2 and Jason came out and everyone forgot about Krasue, despite all the effort that had been put into the chapter's aesthetics and lore. Since the Terrifier chapter is coming out next (assuming the lawsuits don't get in the way), Judgment's probably going to be completely abandoned by the end of the year if they don't work really hard to make the Killer more appealing and memorable.
It's a real shame that the Grimoire Project has turned into something so divisive and frankly unrepresentative of what most DBD players actually like about the game. None of my picks were successful ones, so at least it wasn't my personal idea for a Killer that got so screwed up, but it still stings.
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@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109992#Comment_4109992
"A Reduced Version of Sprint Burst and Dead Hard are still two of the best perks in the game" is not a good thing. If these notable perks that feel necessary to run in some form to survive are being nerfed and STILL are being used for lack of a better option the problem is with the vast amount of perks that don't see use here. Sprint Burst has significantly lost its value regardless purely because of the much higher chance of a high mobility killer, Dead hard is extremely easy to wait out once you know somebody has it, but even still these are being used because theres so many perks that do not provide nearly as much value. you could have a great totem build and face 5 killers in a row who don't have a single hex totem but Sprint Burst is relevant always, DH is relevant always. they are being used constantly because its guaranteed value over hoped value.
Nothing you say is actually an argument against nerfing perks that are overtuned, you're just unhappy that it's happening to perks you happen to rely on. I hope that you made the same arguments against nerfing the most egregiously overpowered Killer perks too. If we actually want a diverse perk meta we have to accept that strong perks we like will be nerfed as well as weak perks getting buffed.
Vigil and Sprint Burst don't even really help against strong Killers who have total map control and you can never really escape. They help you pre-run against M1 Killers who have no way of catching up. Dead Hard is useful against almost all Killers (Nurse as always breaks the game) which is why having it basically for free like it used to be was awful for the average Killer. Same way that having a Pain Res every hook or Eruption Incpacitating Survivors was awful for Survivors and now that's gone. The game has actually been getting slowly better balance-wise over the years but my god some people have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the light. -
Circle Of Healing was completely busted and would still be a good pick if other healing perks weren't disgustingly strong right now.
Sprint Burst and Dead Hard are still two of the best perks in the game by any definition.
Vigil makes splaying M1 Killers insufferable and particularly hurts weaker Killers more than strong ones because of their reliance on additional effects like Exposed or Hindered.
You could also make this meme with DMS, Pain Res, Eruption, Grim Embrace, Thrill etc. (because those perks were unhealthy and are now less unhealthy because they were nerfed or reworked)
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Stream-of-consciousness really is not the best way to discuss latency issues
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If nothing else it's refreshing to see a Survivor complaining about C-tier Killers.
Trickster: avoid/break line of sight where possible, and then make distance so it's harder for him to aim. Running mindlessly in straight lines between pallets and windows will get you killed. Do not group up too much or you risk giving him an easy Main Event.
Knight: His Guard Summoning state is a bit like Jason but without inbuilt tracking so standing still might make him lose you. if you get caught by his guards or he starts summoning them just hold W. 9 times out of 10 a guard won't catch you if you path properly. Guards disappear when you touch their Standard (giving you Endurance) or when you unhook a Survivor so they're not actually that good for camping or tunnelling. Good Knights will harass multiple objectives at once but still have limited ability to secure hits at any distance.
Chucky: IDK because I've not played against one since he got nerfed. Pay attention when he goes into Hidey-Ho mode and be aware of nearby windows/pallets he could ambush you around?
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He doesn't need a rework. If you're upset that he's too powerful then wait like a month until people get better at dealing with him or he gets slightly nerfed again. If you're upset that he doesn't live up the fantasy of the character, then join the club with practically every other licensed Killer.
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They should make a bunch of her addons basekit, including Mint Rag, while also addressing the weirdness with her momentum/inertia when teleporting by giving her a slight haste effect after teleporting to a triggered trap (if Jason gets it why shouldn't she?). They should then make it impossible to place traps near hooked Survivors so her camping play style, especially basement camping, is less effective. I'd also appreciate removing her traps to be slower or riskier for Survivors in some way like with Unknown's Hallucinations.
Hag is one of these Killers that is extremely feast-or-famine depending on whether Survivors co-ordinate and are mentally switched on. She can absolutely stomp pub games with her area control when Survivors are clueless and/or unfamiliar with how you play against her (understandably so given she's a such rare Killer to encounter) but she is effectively unplayable against experienced Survivors or SWFs who can communicate, which is why she is almost never played in comp settings. Both ends of this extreme need to be addressed at the same time or baby Survivors would get ripped to shreds by future buffs.
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Dealing with the infinite pallets you have on most maps right now really sucks for him if you're not running his action speed addon, but you also need uncloak speed addon to make his power actually lethal, and you need movement speed to outpace Survivors who prerun, and then you never get the chance to run any other more interesting addons... he feels quite bad at the moment, I'm not going to lie. He needs an addon pass which makes some of the effects basekit while reworking the ones that just do the same thing at slightly different levels (he's one of the only Killers left whose whole addon paradigm works this way).
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Does everyone play Ghoul? No. Ghoul is stronger than he should be and a nerf is overdue, but he is one of the 5 strongest Killers in DBD. Balancing the game solely around Ghoul is ridiculous precisely because he is so overpowered in comparison to virtually every other Killer. Half the Killer roster feel unplayable right now because the strongest Survivor perks combined with antitunnel and anticamp make Survivors so strong and safe. DBD needs a serious reining in of the power level at both ends, so we don't have Ghoul and Jason on one side along with Sprint Burst and Vigil while at the other end we have Trapper and Skull Merchant with Cut Loose and Red Herring.
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Firing 2 birds in your first interaction is where you're going wrong. You won't usually have time to line another shot up unless you either only fire 1 or the Survivor's progress on the removal action is interrupted (usually by dropping a pallet or vaulting), or if you use the addons that change the timers on your cooldown and on the time to disperse the swarm. Firing 2 or more is better to *confirm* a Bird Strike injury or down when you need to shotgun or block off multiple angles.
Artist is an extremely difficult Killer who is also very punishing when you don't play her correctly. Artist Syndrome (where a Killer's skill floor is too high to make them popular even if their skill ceiling is also incredibly high) is named after her for a reason. She also suffers in the Hold W prerun meta since her best strategies rely on containing a Survivor in a loop and then forcing them to misplay it. You're never gonna do well with her first try, but keep at it and you'll be birding people left and right.
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This forum is just a tar pit of negativity and rancour. This sort of comment thread is why Flats and other content creators make fun of the DBD community.
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'Long' is relative. Normally my Killer queues have been around a minute tops, but I don't play during the day or at times when there seems to be a dearth of Survivors. But some people's seem to be many times longer than that. Weirdly my Survivor queues are often longer than anticipated even when the BP bonus is on that side.
Don't worry, when the split event queues come in next week it'll all get even worse.
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Absolutely. They've clearly learnt how to make a more diverse set of addons per Killer over the past few releases, but it would be very nice if they could go back and modernise the Killers whose addons are very outdated like Wraith and Oni, while reworking those like Vecna 1 and Krasue, whose addons are either entirely cosmetic or focussed on the wrong part of their power. They also really should do something to shake up the meta of item addons because I only see the same ones with no variety. And finally they need to redress some addon effects in the era of 'diminishing returns' (remember that balance update you promised BHVR?).
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Assuming skill with the given characters is equal, playing a high-tier Killer does take a lot of stress out of the game. If I mess up a play on Jason, Ghoul, Billy or Blight, I just wait a few seconds and I have another chance, and each time I have the opportunity to do serious damage to the Survivors. You mess up a play as Ghostface, Sadako or even a stronger Killer like Unknown or Artist and you've easily lost 30 seconds, maybe longer before another chance appears to properly pressure Survivors or secure a down.
Some of this is that Survivors have the same tools to deal with all echelons of Killer: you need busted things like Resurgence, Vigil, Cross-Examination and Brand New Parts just to keep up with a high-tier Killer being played well with meta perks. But you bring those same tools against a Trapper with basic perks and suddenly it's Hydrogen Bomb vs Coughing Baby territory.
The other part is maps. Some maps are just too big and too full of junk for a weaker Killer to ever manage, but again this is because top-tier Killers don't really care much about distance or pallet density. Nurse can struggle somewhat on Ormond Resort because it's so huge and there are chances to break line of sight, but a Skull Merchant has basically already lost in 9/10 scenarios on the same map. It's also true that there are a few maps that Survivors really have a bad time on, and those are a major pain point as well.
We can talk about power creep, and that's a worthwhile discussion, but some Killers have just always been weak and some have just always been strong. The S tier and the F tier of Killers and of Survivor perks have not changed much in the past few years (the notable exceptions are Freddy and Myers moving out of the basement to be around average-to-good): the same guys are still there and the disparity between them is still as apparent in spite of some nerfs and buffs they have received.
Bearing all this in mind, it's tempting just to play top-tier Killers simply to avoid the stress of seeing 3 gens pop in your first chase and knowing that there's nothing you can do to counterattack. I certainly almost never play the weakest Killers anymore because it's just not fun to do your best, get nothing for it and know that you were not outplayed but just outgunned.
The answer, if there is one, is to nerf the top end of both sides to bring things down to a more sane power level: the most powerful Killers, the most powerful perks. Then you could buff the worst things on both sides while regulating maps to be more uniform in size, density and navigability (no more Fallen Refuge, no more Badham Preschool) so the game is more even, stable and dare I say fun for everyone.
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Spinning this event as a good thing is a bit like a your house burning down and trying to see it as an opportunity to redecorate.
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Reassurance is crazy strong, it just requires a modicum of coordination to make it work. With Reassurance someone can be on the hook for a total 100 seconds per hook stage after the basekit increase to hook timers. That's a huge amount of time for Survivors to heal, do gens/open exit gates/cleanse hexes etc while the Killer doesn't get the opportunity to tunnel out the (un)hooked Survivor. Add on to that the basekit Borrowed Time improvement, the anticamp meter and the proliferation of very strong perks that activate on unhook like Resurgence, DS, DH etc and it can make a Killer's life miserable if used properly, since the time pressure on rescuing a hooked Survivor is so greatly reduced, as is the vulnerability of a Survivor with added hook stages. The only risk with it is that if your teammates don't know you have it, they might rush a save and/or exchange with the hooked Survivor when they didn't need to, but now you can check your team's perks in-game and avoid that problem entirely. I actually think Reassurance should get a nerf because of how many protections hooked Survivors get by default now.
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I know some people around here hate Nightlight but as a sample of around 12k matches in the last month Jason was both the most picked Killer at 24% and the most lethal at almost 55%. For comparison the next most popular Killers are Ghoul and Wesker at a little over 4% each and the next most lethal are Dracula and Henry aka Vecna 2: The First But Not Really with around 54% and 53% respectively (those two have way below average pickrates so that can be explained by their few dedicated players being pretty cracked).
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I'm averaging about 4 hooks spread across at least 2 Survivors per match as Killer, it's so horribly depressing and humiliating to be rendered so powerless as the supposed power role. The only times I do better are when I'm both playing a Killer who has ways of countering certain effects like you mentioned, I've played like a total scumbag and tunneled, slugged and campedto the max AND when Survivors don't use the event powers right or trip over their own shoelaces in some other way. Even on strong Killers I play well there's only so much you can do against instant heals, invisibility and unbreakable pallets on god loops. I've also seen on Survivor how nasty you have to be as Killer to get things done and it's really encouraging a lot of bad feeling amongst the community.
I strongly encourage everyone to fil out the survey BHVR sent out and let them know exactly how you feel about the Black Banquet so hopefully they don't repeat the mistakes they've made this year in future events.
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I'd be happy if I never saw a Wesker again. Hate his pompous chase music, don't enjoy his pompous voicelines anymore and I've played against so many Masterminds over the years that I'm even bored with being tossed around like a ragdoll. I should be better at countering him by now but I don't have the dexterity to dodge his bounds, especially after his most recent changes that let him hold the second one forever. I also find it annoying that he has a very powerful secondary effect in his Uroboros Infection compared to Nemesis' T-Virus, while Nemesis has the weaker primary Power. Finally, while it's probably all in my head, I've never encountered a chill or 'nice' Mastermind. I'm sure they're out there, but the vibes I get from ones I face are that they are all pretty humourless, never equip non-meta builds and never give hatch or Exit Gates to a lone Survivor.
I'd love to see more Henry aka Vecna II: The First But Not Really, since his power is very distinctive and involves a lot of mindgames. Similarly I wish there were more Artists and Unknowns, since generally you're trying to outthink them instead of just juke or tech them, things which I'm bad at.
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okay so while people shouldn't take what people do in trials personally if it's not against ToS or obviously motivated by bad intentions, the correct play here is not to cleanse Plaything because 1) you're not cleansing Devour, which is the most dangerous hex perk in this setup and the crux of the Killer's strategy, when you know that it's not Devour because unlike Devour Plaything is revealed to you after a set time, 2) you're possibly giving the Killer a stack of Pentimento, which slows healing and generator progress and generally makes everyone's lives more difficult, and most of all 3) if you know about Retribution then you know that cleansing the totem will reveal everyone on the map, which, especially when combined with Devour's instadown, puts your teammates in real jeopardy. All that for the fairly limited benefit of not being oblivious, which isn't really an issue if you're not on an indoor map and you have some situational awareness. Your friend messed up and it could have got everyone killed if it turned out badly.
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I get really stressed by Killer these days. It's honestly not fun anymore. Either I play nice, get bodied and the Survivors teabgging in the Exit Gate send me a bunch of GGEZs, or I try to win, maybe achieve something by not having any fun in the slightest and then get called slurs for being a sweaty tryhard tunneller/camper/slugger/meta perk abuser/whatever perceived breach of the rulebook I committed. I don't really try and learn new Killers anymore because I know I'll never be able to compete with Survivors when I'm picking up a new skillset and I don't want to be stuck in an unwinnable match. It doesn't help that I consistently get matched against players with more than double my hours.
SpookyLoopz released a video about Killer Anxiety the other day and it really resonated with me. Especially with the event right now being so godawful for Killer, I'm seriously thinking about giving up DBD. I don't have any friends who I can consistently play Survivor with, and solo queue Survivor is terrible as we all know, so if Killer continues to be this unenjoyable I'm not sure what this game has left for me.
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Nightlight isn't perfect but it's still the biggest sample set we have (tens of thousands of matches per month and a lot of users have a widget that automatically uploads match data) and it's more up to date and transparent than the official dev stat releases. For example the screengrab with Krasue as the top Killer is definitely not reflective of reality because while she had a preposterously high kill rate on release she got nerfed fairly quickly and now is not nearly so powerful (additionally her pickrate plummeted afterward which makes the stats even harder to parse: if only three cracked Krasue mains ever play her and never lose but nobody else touches her because she's so clunky and hard to use in many environments, how strong is she really?). The same is certainly true for Henry.
I'm gonna add that since the whole 'the cake is a lie' debacle I'm even less inclined to trust BHVR for accurate or well-processed data.
Using the (admittedly limited) information we have, the inference is that on average a lot of Killers (or Killer players) are doing worse than expected. This is borne out anecdotally as well. Why this is bears more investigation: I suspect a rotation of maps that are difficult for lower-tier Killers, combined with a very strong Survivor perk meta, the increased proliferation of techs and strats, and the gradual improvement of the average Survivor (it's been 10 years, we're bound to have learned something). I don't know why some people are so upset by the conclusion that some Killers are underperforming and jump to ad hominem attacks when it's suggested.
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It would be really nice to see BHVR take some big swings on balancing. There's a serious backlog of issues in the game that need addressing and the very piecemeal approach they often take to them is not helping clear it.
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What baffles me is that, even though this is supposedly 'the first iteration of an ongoing event', if, before release, you'd asked anyone who has any experience with DBD about the Black Banquet features, they would have told you that they were atrociously unbalanced and would make Killers lives' miserable for no good reason. Did it not go through the normal testing and consultation process?
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Just to reiterate that this was sarcastic in case people didn't realise, though there is a kernel of truth here that you have to play like an absolute scumbag and do all of the things Survivor players hate to encounter just to have a shot of securing anything as Killer. Happy Anniversary, we're going to make everyone miserable for no reason!!!
I sincerely hope that the dev team is listening to all the negative feedback they're getting about this and either have a fix in the works (let Killers eat Morsels and do goofy bullshit too!) or at least have a big apology waiting on the other side of this massive disaster of an event. Overwatch got a lot of flak for their anniversary event, but they just gave out some mid skins and overestimated how much grind people would take; BHVR is really punching above their weight lately to be able to compete with Blizzard in unforced errors that burn goodwill. -
Map offerings would be fine if maps were balanced. If BHVR actually spent some time equalising maps in terms of size, resources and density then we wouldn't have this problem. Since they won't do that better just to remove them and change the achievements that require completing a specific action on a given map.
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The outcome you want (a diversity of Killers being played) is a good one, but the method is horrible. It would make queue times for everyone longer, would be exploited by SWFs and would probably make cheating even easier if it introduced elements that allow Survivors to manipulate who they queue with. A better start point would be to ask why some Killers are so popular, why are some so unpopular, and actually work out ways to make more Killers enjoyable and accessible to casual/non-expert players while perhaps reining in some of the most oppressive ones at the top.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
Killers get lots. The problem on survivor is that you have the event items AND the new cakes, all in the same pool. So you get less cakes on survivor. On my P100 Pig bloodwebs I got at least 1 cake every single page.
I got more on average spending BP on Survivor than Killer so it's more complicated than that I think. Something's definitely wrong though
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It's gotta be Skull Merchant. Other Killers could receive minor number changes and an addon pass and they'd be fine. Skull Merchant basically doesn't have a power.
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Statistically and qualitatively Gas Heaven is a nightmare for Killer. It's huge, full of strong loops and the main building is kinda nasty if Survivors don't drop the pallet around the back. If you spawn on the wrong side of the map and don't get to guard the 3-gen that can spawn around shack it's game over. Eyrie of Crows is disgusting even after the changes to it, it's so big and so safe everywhere and it's also painfully bright on my monitor for some reason? Like it hurts my eyes.
Swamp also sucks because it's so goddamned lumpy that Killers like Vecna, Twins and Artist can't use their powers reliably, Nemesis uniquely can't tentacle whip over windows and Killer props like Plague fountains, Sadako TVs and Alien tunnel exits all spawn on the edge of the map near absolutely nothing. They've been promising a rework of the maps for years but I guess they're too busy with all the other things they've promised to rework and then abandoned.
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@cammoking123 said:
To make the game artificially easier for killer mains. So when killer mains whine about "hand holding" make sure to remind them of this.
I genuinely want to know who hurt you that makes this your default response to this kind of question.
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In most cases it would just make the toxicity and entitlement in this game more immediate. BHVR barely has the resources to moderate text comms in postgame chat, so doing that for thousands of hours of live voice and text comms is unfeasible, especially outside of Anglophone-majority areas. Imagine the safeguarding and liability issues on EMEA servers with slurs and death threats in more than 30 different languages.
If you need more information than the game gives you by default as a Survivor (live HUD, Killer info and perks in the menu etc, terror radius), then can I suggest running info perks? There're actually some really good ones other than Windows of Opportunity and Deja Vu, but people never run them for some reason. Failing that, join a Discord server or make your friends play DBD with you.
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I'm glad you're happy for it, but personally I've never understood the appeal. The premise of the Terrifier movies is so generic and boring to me ('what if there was a clown who killed people but um actually he's a demon from hell dimension' is laughably weak, homegrown DBD Clown is much more interesting), and the movies themselves just seem like plotless violence for its own sake. There are a lot of other more compelling horror tropes we don't have yet in DBD and I'm actually a little irritated that we're getting Terrifier instead of one of those.
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As a Killer? I went against a 4-man SWF whose leader was called Andrew Tate and he was exactly as toxic as you'd expect. Teabagging, flashlight clicking (this was before they limited how fast you could do it so it was horribly loud and obnoxious), gesturing at me constantly, and all his flying monkeys did the same thing. I did manage to kill them all but it was like pulling teeth: they were all running extremely strong builds and were very coordinated and aggressive, and old (pre-rework) Haddonfield was awful for most Killers. I was on console so I don't know what they typed in endgame chat but I can't imagine it was very nice.
As a Survivor? It was probably the Pig who brought a Lery's map offering and ran a hardcore slug build including old-school Knock Out, Coulrophobia and her Blindness trap addon so we couldn't see each other's downed bodies, among other things. That was a full 4-minute, 4-man bleedout she got. I'll add as an honourable mention the cheating Jane who kept teleporting around the map and tried to get the Killer to kill me, but it was so obvious that the Killer didn't take the bait. I managed to bodyblock her long enough for the Killer to down her instead: her floppy body kept teleporting to me until she was about to bleed out and she went full ragehacks and made herself escape.
And myself? After a really terrible match on a difficult Killer (probably pre-buffs Singularity considering the timeline) complete with exit gate teabags, I put on the sweatiest pre-abandonware Skull Merchant build I could think of. When the Survivors brought an RPD offering their fate was sealed. I turned the stairwell and corridor above basement into a kill zone and camped and slugged them like an absolute monster. I did feel guilty, but not too much.
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Shoulder is a difficult one because while it's not a bad concept for a perk at all, it has very few limitations on its use. Yes you can use it against a Blight who's hard tunnelling one Survivor at 5 gens to save the game, but you can also use it against a Trapper or Ghostface who's taken 4 gens to get 3 hooks on 2 Survivors to ruin any chance of pressure they ever had. It also synergises painfully well with all the other antitunnel perks in the game which are still very strong in their own right. Additionally the '30 seconds exposed' drawback is essentially a non-factor, because a) Killers are punished hard enough for camping that they're unlikely to be near the hook most of the time b) the freshly unhooked and now much less vulnerable Survivor can take a hit to delay catching the unhooker c) it's irrelevant to M2 Killers anyway and d) Vigil exists.
My dream would be a basekit version of Shoulder The Burden that only applies when one Survivor has been hooked twice and no other Survivors have been hooked yet, without any of the supposed drawbacks. That would be a genuine anti-tunnel feature that couldn't also be wielded as a weapon against the Killer just for existing.
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They don't even need to make him 4.6, they need to reduce the number of knives he needs to hit, his throw speed and the number of knives he can carry so accuracy is more important and also rewarded more while also reducing his need to sustain contact over complex map geometry. If they could also make his reticle a basekit option instead of an addon slot it would help a lot (especially on console where third party software isn't really an option).
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So Scared to Death and Rampage are being released unchanged in spite of how weak and situational they are?
I'll also say that for Silent Shadow, 13 seconds when you hook a Survivor is meaningless when A) it usually takes at least that long to re-engage with the trial after hooking and B) Survivors know where you are when you hooked a Survivor due to the massively loud and bright audiovisual cue they receive.
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That Survivor is providing cosmic balance against the games where the Killer has 4 hooks across 3 Survivors and the 4th Survivor uses STB to make the Killer have no pressure anywhere at 1 gen left.