Warlock_2020
Warlock_2020
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Though I understand your frustration and the intent behind your thoughts, I don't think the answer is making the gens slower.
For one, it adds to the very monotonous nature of survivors, as you pointed out, holding M1 gets boring so how will holding M1 longer help?
Secondly, survi al rates are already well below 50%. This would only exacerbate those numbers. Whether we like it or not, the goal is to kill and survive. Survivors want to survive and get that survival bp bonus.
Thirdly, I don't want easier 4k matches. As it is, getting a 3k or 4k is 90 percent of my matches. Longer gens is not going to make that harder. Gen rush teams can get in and out quickly, but they are not the norm.
I think the answer is in objectives and map/mode changes. Start introducing maps where gens and gates are not the way to survive. Maybe the survivors ha e to solve a puzzle, reassemble a series of statues, or some other objective in order to get out. The objectives change based on the map. Maybe wraith's map requires you fix a car to escape. Either way, it changes things up based on the map. Have hazards, and ways for the killer to hinder the survivors, such as having the entity destroy part of the statue if the killer hooks 3 different survivors within the first few minutes. This helps deter camping and tunneling in the early part of the match.
There are lots of ways to impr8without just nerfing gen times.
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@Carpemortum said:
This is bait right? It's not about the 4k.
4 escaped. With DS, Adrenaline and whatnot.
You really didnt expect them to call you out? And were to believe that at NO point none of the survivors teabagged once to taunt?
I'm not saying flaming and arguing and whatnot is right, but you HAVE to know it's not because he "didnt get the 4k".
Call them out for what?! Adrenaline? SC? I love when they run SC. Wound and feel free to dump chase if they are at a safe loop. They will waste 30 seconds or more healing instead of doing a gen.
Those perks are nowhere near toxic. Hell, DS is a dead perk unless you tunneled them off of hook. That is some serious saltiness there.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/602003#Comment_602003
Nobody cares that you think you're god's gift to dbd. Most players know where the hatch can spawn and that has no impact on this issue.
The point is that even if you do know where the hatch is, or can be, a survivor DCing when you down them anywhere except next to the hatch means it opens instantly and there's no way to close is before a survivor jumps in as they told their SWF teammate when they were already near it.
It's also a problem when you're doing well, as not doing enough gens means it comes down to luck who finds it first.
Hahaha! You have not done any homework on me. I am self-admitted to be average in the game. I'm colorblind to the point I usually have to hunt by movement because everything blends together.
No, you hate that I'm calling this thread what it is, a whine or tantrum at best. It is a non-issue, especially in the larger scheme of more important issues in this game. If you are still having hatch issues at this point, then practice and get better. Hatch and EGC is more in favor of the killer unless they have a key.
Enough crying already.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/601653#Comment_601653
“Just get better or don’t try so hard for the 4k”
?!?!?!?!
!!!!!!
Did you even read this before posting it?!
A player only gets better by TRYING.
Achieving a 4k is indicative of getting BETTER at the game.
Trying is the word you are tripping up on. Trying and try-Harding are 2 different things. Learn the spawn locations of the hatch. You will find your 4k ratio go up fast. Getting all sweaty and upset over a dc or suicide does nothing to increase your skill.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/601663#Comment_601663
Well yes I absolutely agree with the issue brought up in your post.
But I couldn’t help but point out the absurdity of @Warlock_2020 comment.
What is so absurd? If you learn the maps and where the hatch spawns then it is simple to cut them off even with a dc. Not my fault if you want it gift wrapped without studying the layout of the maps.
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@Tarvesh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/601653#Comment_601653
Get better? Getting better means you can achieve 4k's.
You can't get better when you're denied a 4k because someone DC's so the other person can get the hatch.
I get 4ks all the time without the slug and with the suicide on hook. Not impossible. Situational awareness and learning where the hatch spawns on which maps (other than swamp) is what you need to work on. I cut them off all the time because I have learned or watched videos on the most likely spawn locations of the hatch.
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Yeah, so now a survivor can get the ultimate sandbag on their team mates. Yeah, I don't see that happening. Just get better or don't try so hard for the 4k.
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So, which SWF are we talking about here? The team of skilled players cranking out gens who have maps broken down for communication purposes? Or are we talking about the usual SWF you see outside of red ranks where the Meg is wandering around half the time looking for a gen while claudette hides in a bush, Bill urban evades from chest to chest and Kate keeps blowing up the gens?
The idea that SWF takes no skill is laughable because most SWFs I run into are more like a 3 stooges reunion and they are lucky to knock out 2 gens. God help them if you have ruin up, they scramble for the totem immediately.
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If you are looking for reasonable behavior and maturity, you won't find them here. The mods enforce some behavior, but not all. They mainly focus on snowflake trigger words and send warnings. I've tried to have serious talks only to have someone be blatantly belligerent. I dare tell them to stop being the special kid in the room who wants the attention and try to add something useful to the debate like an adult and I get the mods breathing down my back.
I gave up trying to discuss anything intelligent at that point.
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Wow, the OP has a seriously slanted viewpoint. This is not about your adept achievements, which are not that hard to begin with. It's about being able to leave a match for real life reasons, or in the case of suicide on hook it could be due to strategic or toxic reasons. Why should I be forced to sit on a hook for the full time with the killer face camping me? If I see my team is trying to save instead of hammering out gens, I'm going to suicide on hook. Strategy.
I've gotten adept on all but Billy and Nurse, because I don't play them. It was somewhat challenging, but no that hard. I'm also colorblind and can't see survivors on most maps unless they are moving. So if my old arthritic arse can do it......
That said, I don't get many dc's because I don't camp and avoid tunneling. Why? I absolutely hate when it is done to me. So I don't see the huge plague of dc's aside from the babies who either dc because they got caught first, or the teabagger who realizes he messed up and got downed due to stopping to teabag.
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@se05239 said:
@Peanits Random question. Since we know there's new gestures coming and we know survivors will most likely use them to BM the killer, like they have with the current ones.. are there any plans to make it so that the entire emote animation needs to play out before survivors can move again?
The current gestures are already like this. Why wouldn't the new ones be?
Personally, I'd like to see something that could be a fun interaction with the killer, like "wasn't me" or a begging type gesture. There have been times where I wanted to have fun with a killer and it was taken the wrong way. Like after I stun the clown with a pallet I drop the med kit I'm carrying and point at him as if to say, "here big guy, sorry about the knot on your noggin". So then I get tunneled and face camped. After I explained in end game that I was not taunting, and would not taunt a killer due to being on that side of the match, he apologized and bemoaned the inability to understand the funny gesture clearly.
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Nobody should ever rank reset more than 5 levels from their best rank. So if I top out at rank 5. I should never rank reset past rank 10. To do so is setting up newbies to face an unwinnable situation.
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Stealth is about seeing you hiding with my many aura sight abilities
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Very frustrating and makes it even more difficult to set a trap when los is broken during a chase.
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I main Trapper because I like the strategic aspect of his power. That said, there is nothing OP about Trapper or his addons. Heck, the biggest tweak he needs is to have 3 traps from start and remove the extra trap from bag addons. Maybe make the bag addons allow the trapper to get traps from lockers instead of them laying all over.
Trapper is very slow at first and needs time to set the field. Vs a good gen rush, he can be problematic at best.
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@Science_Guy this is a pretty biased point you threw out there. Killers are no less dependent on access to good perks than survivors. As someone who has leveled both sides I see no difference in the need to frind through the BW for solid perk builds. Heck, I found it easier to do as killer due to the rediculous advantage of BP gain, even taking que times into consideration.
The grind sucks equally across the board. Not everything is killer vs survivor. Much of this game's problems is more player vs design flaws.
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This has been one of my concerns for a while. I've brought in over 20 players, only one of which sorta stays around. Their feedback was similar to @kamisen . The camping, tunneling, and grind were huge barriers to keeping the players around.
More than 12 of these players are huge fans of vs games and even they were shocked at the amount of veteran players who played at low ranks just to dominate new players. They were shocked it was allowed.
I've long felt this game has a hard time attracting new players and keeping them. Not good for long term viability.
I'd like to see some form of KYF sandbox mode be an option on the servers. Camping and tunneling not allowed and allow the players to tweak settings for fun. That might make it easier for newer players to get into the game. Let them get bp at a slower rate and experiment with what perks they want to target. There could be a chat libby with killers who are setting up matches.
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The two are not opposites. They do not act as a counter. I don't care much about adrenaline anymore and I rarely run NOED. Adrenaline rarely comes into play due to the large amount of potatoes playing survivor. When you do get a good group and Adrenaline kicks in, so be it.
I've rarely lost a match due to it, it was usually mistakes I made much earlier that allowed adrenaline to seal my loss.
NOED, I used to run it until I figured out it was a crutch and was holding me back. I got a lot better once I stopped running it.
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Yes
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@Pizzaman and @ClogWench I've been saying this for a long time now. I've gotten more than 20 people to join this game, all of whome quit after being on the business end of both survivors and killers who exploit the system and get a kick out of obliterating new players. All of them thought the game could be a lot of fun, but not worth the amount of grief you get from skilled players who intentionally get matched vs new players just to be toxic.
I thought it was overreaction at first until my coworkers had me watch 2 hours of their gameplay. Roughly 40% of their matches were like that. Absolutely unacceptable for a company to allow their new players to be harassed like that in what is a casual party game. Can't keep new players like this.
And don't think it's just survivors who do it. The amount of rank 19 killers with all t3 perks and a mastery of nurse/Billy are surprisingly high.
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I don't have a problem with slugging for the 4k, but it is a sweaty move and you can't blame someone for not wanting to sit there waiting. I'd rather move on to the next match.
It's one of the reasons I quit playing survivor. Too many sweaty killers and I needed to be able to get to the next match asap if I was going to maximize BP gain. But no, the sweaty 13 year old had to have their 4k and most of the time they failed to get it.
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One of the most popular and useful perks for survivors will not warrant a ban. Survivors will skip till it's fixed if they do that. Que times will be pure hell.
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@GrootDude said:
@Warlock_2020 that is a bug, (this may or may not be true) I think it is affecting Jeff since I’ve only seen Jeff players report it.
Bug or not, it's all survivors. Ive heard claudette and Jane as well.
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Well, I converted to killer for three reasons. Primary was the rediculous difference in BP. I ran several tests to see if it equals out over hours of play, but found the killer made more than 120% BP than survivor over 3 hour periods.
Then there was the boredom of survivor. Mixed into the boredom is a bunch of stuff - there was the M1 simulator and how some killers made that even worse. There was the incessant camping and tunneling that made it even more of an M1 simulation for those lucky enough to not be caught first. Then there was the constant changes to survivor, no e of which made it more fun to play.
The nerfs only solidified my choice. Now I only play survivor daily missions or when my wife wants to play.
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Iron Will does not need a counter anymore. Not since they increased the volume of survivors. I heard Jeff from a good distance away while he was crouched behind a tree. Looked after the match and he had Iron Will. That perk is currently a wasted spot. More nerfs to stealth.
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I agree that the game is not friendly to new players, but not for the reasons listed by the OP. Well, perhaps the grind part.
1. I started playing a year ago and have built up to where I have all the killers, and all their teachable perks. Yes, it is a huge grind, but it was not the discouraging part.
2. BHVR is in the business to make money. If they just give e away the product, then they'll have to go to a pay monthly system and that will kill the game.
3. I've convinced 15 people to try the game out and all of them had nearly identical feedback. They all said the amount of time to unlock perks was daunting, but doable. But when you add in the fact that you have to face experienced killers/survivors who intentionally derank, it becomes torture. Most also felt the killer role was way too dominant as newer players and they are basically volunteering to be griefed by a camping LF. Many of them mentioned the absurd amount of campers and tunnelers at the rank 18 to 20 level and how it makes it really hard to learn how to play the game correctly.
Unfortunately, I've failed to convince any to stick with it. They feel the game is amazing in concept, but horribly managed as it stifles new players too much.
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People need to stop responding with passionate positions and start using their head. This is not a survivor vs killer thing. This is a degree of concern thing. The only bug that earned a ban in recent memory was the Legion perma-mend bug. That is because it was not only game breaking, like the wakeup and tinkerer bugs, but it also caused the game to be taken hostage and added a whole other griefing level to the situation. Using it gave you the ability to absolutely dominate while also being able to take the game hostage where others could do nothing.
Enough with the crybaby tears. We are absolutely right in demanding a swift fix as it affects the quality of play, but stop acting like spoiled children in the process.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/576138#Comment_576138
It's less that the power enables leatherface to camp and more that the way the power functions makes it better for defensive play.
When LF charges his chainsaw he becomes severely slowed then when he releases he starts to slowly accelerate over time. He gets to moving just slightly faster than normal walk speed, but he has full control of his movement and can down multiple people. Unlike Billy, LF can't fake the charge on his chainsaw and gives up a lot of distance whether they try to fake or not. So the better strat is to get someone down and then hook them. Then you can play around your bait survivor with the chainsaw.
The counter is to just let the person hange and start popping gens as that is the only way to get a camping LF to consider moving.
Then you find out he has NOED and he gets rewarded for being an arse.
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Look, anyone that truly knows game design knows that Billy and Nurse break all the rules. You don't put speed and power together. You put speed, or power together. Billy can cover massive terrain in a few seconds, and one shot someone. Nurse can pass through every barrier a survivor moves behind.
What I find funny is this, when killers running nurse find a survivor who complains about her being OP, they say "You can juke her. Git Gud!" When they find a survivor that can juke her, they say "Survivors are OP!" WTH is up with that?
This game has got the loudest, whiniest community I've seen in a while. Most of the crying on this forum is from the killers. Much of the toxicity in game is from the hardcore survivors. WTH?!
I blame BHVR. They never set any rules of behavior, and they don't enforce the crap ones they have. They don't understand balance, and over compensate when they try. They have zero quality control and refuse to assemble a group of players from both sides to act as advisors. This game is doomed the minute someone puts out a halfway decent horror game. At least BHVR can hang their hat on the fact that they created a concept that is awesome, they just can't run it for crap.
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EGC is a bit frustrating. I've lost one as killer since it started. One, and only one. It is massively stacked in the killer's favor. That, and it is a tool used by some killers to be toxic for no reason. I don't teabag when I play survivor; I don't run insta-heals; I don't run DS/MoM, etc. Yet, I can't count how many times a killer will down me, engage EGC, then watch me die shaking their heads. Very childish and toxic. I'd like to see the EGC changed in order to cut both survivor and killer toxicity.
Changes -
- No way should the exit doors be close enough for Trapper to easily patrol. Half the time, I can usually just sit and watch with a trap in front of both doors. I can usually see both exits with little effort. This should not be happening.
- Closing the hatch should trigger EGC, but the survivor should be able to re-open the hatch with 2-3 difficult skill checks and a timer the same as the doors.
- If the survivor is down, and does not have perks that allow them to get back up, the game should end in 10 seconds. There should be no large window for some neglected kid to act toxic in. It does similar with the final survivor when they are hooked. If it was your first hook and you have Deliverance, you don't get a chance to use it. So do similar with EGC when in dying state for more than 10 seconds. End it.
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I think most people are not playing Freddy correctly. I see them chasing, and they are not using snares liberally to block loops. They try to set them ahead of time, which is nice, but don't seem to want to just drop them down during chases. I find that strategy to work well. I don't always get it exactly where I want it, but I drop it quickly and keep chasing. Quite a useful loop breaker.
I agree with the post above about waiting on any tweaks until Freddy has been out a couple weeks. That is where we will get a good test of how survivors and killers will adapt to him.
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Doctor is one of the best farming killers out there. If I want bp fast, I grab the Doc. I think everyone wants too much out of each killer. There are legit concerns about several killers. Trapper, Wraith, Pig, etc, but Doc is way down on that list in my opinion.
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Honestly, the pallets seem to be more agreed on than anything. As survivor, I really enjoyed the new game play with the fake pallets. When I used them as Freddy, most survivors seemed to have a good time with it.
The pallets are fine. The only real tweak should be making them part of base package in the place of the snares. Move snares to addons and give them a 1 second slowdown when placing them. Too easy to spam them during chases.
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Avoid running through areas you can't see. Check the neanearby loop before you start on the gen.
Why am I helping you avoid my traps?! On second thought, don't worry about it. Those things are so easy to see, you can avoid them without effort. :)
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Some are diversifying. Some are bored or moving on. It happens.
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Pand used to be good, but since he became a whisperer he has been a major tool. Loves to toe the company line. Used to watch his streams, but got to where I couldn't. Complains about campers and tunnelers, but camps and tunnels regularly.
As for YouTube uploads, most of thos content creators stream regularly. No0b3 does all the time in his uploads. Monto is one of the few who does not stream often. Then again, he is a "builds" guy. He puts together builds for people to try out. It makes sense that he uploads versions where the build is represented correctly.
Don't know why this is a topic. Personally, I either watch the stuff for entertainment or for builds. I don't consider any of it representative of the game itself, especially with the ones who take themselves too seriously, like the Irish dude who whines all the time.
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I'd rather wait and get matched appropriately. Nothing worse than facing newbie survivors. I'd rather not destroy the game for them. We need to keep new people, not discourage them.
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Until they put a totem counter on the survivor layout, don't talk about how easy it is to counter. Only 3 to 4 man SWF can do it easily. Solo groups have no way of knowing how many are done. Add in the trope of how to counter campers and tunnelers, you know the old "do the gens and leave" crap the defenders keep saying, and you have several situations where NOED is pure crutch.
I considered old DS to be a crutch as well. Never ran it, and only run NOED if I'm using a full end game build.
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I, too, get tired of toxic SWFs, but I try not to take it out on other survivors. I've gotten to where I just horse around when I get a toxic SWF. They want you to get salty and try-hard. I just put around and don't put forth effort. Does not matter to me if they play along or not. So what if it is a wasted match, it usually gets them super salty in end game chat. That makes me smile....
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Honestly, when not facing a toxic prick running him, I find the matches with GF to be fun. He is not a straight forward killer and can require switching strategies mid game. You want to heal, yet you don't want to. I've seen good GF killers who adapt to no heal strats by sneaking up and getting quick shots on you without trying to stalk.
The GF campers are the ones who are really frustrating. Zero fun m1 simulation at that point.
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Oh, and I've seen dozens of Billy killers with NOED running. Why? Crutch
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I main Trapper, running him 80% of the time. I don't sweat end game at all. I plan ahead. If there is 1 gen left and 2 or more survivors, I start trapping the exit areas. Nothing more surprising than finding a trap or two on the way to a gate, and one barring the actual lever.
NOED is a crutch when used as a security piece. As mentioned before, I get it being used as a piece in an end game build.
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Not fair or unfair. It's a crutch when not put with an end game build.
Remember Me, Blood Warden, and NOED together makes sense though.
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You know, the Huntress was terrifying when I first started this game. Her lullaby made my heart race and would haunt my ears hours after playing. She still gets me a bit nervous when I first hear it in a match.
Sorry, slightly off topic...
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Depip squad represents the top 1% of survivors. Hell, the red ranks as a whole represent less tha. 10%. Most players are not that good. Most are average players who think they have done great if they looped the killer for more than 20 seconds.
You are talking about horribly skewed stats. It's like saying g the NY Gianys were not bad last year bec8they can beat every high school team in the nation.
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EGC timer also starts when you close the hatch.
Balance is not the correct issue. Rank vs balance is. The problem is, they try to balance across the board when they should be balancing by rank in conjunction with rewards for ranking up.
As for EGC, it is more of a survivor nerf, so RM had to be tweaked. I'm not sure of their thinking behind the pig changes. She was strong in end game, now she is not.
The nerf stick has been bearing survivors to death for 8 months now. So much so that many moved to killer. The survivor BP changes hinted at that as well. Can't say it is worse for killers now than it was 6 mo ths ago.
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@imaentitledsurvivor said:
Lol! Really! This is what survivors are crying about now! I might as well kiss goodbye Mori now! The babies cry and the developers come running to give the spoiled babies what’s they want. Maybe they Should take away the power of the killer altogether.
Um, this is not a nerf idea and I am no survivor main. My Trapper takes issue with that accusation. This is more of a lateral move for mori's. One that would reward the killer for multiple hooks in EVERY match and clear up clutter in our blood webs that makes room for more addons. Quit your crying @imaentitledsurvivor .
The concept would move the mori to part of the killer's base package. As shown above, there are some barriers to the idea, but I don't think it is completely undoable. I know I have more than 20 EMs on every killer, and easily 30 plus cypress on each. I don't like using moris very often because I'd rather BP, and I find moris too easily abused when they can be used after one hook. So why not clear up that space for better stuff and make it part of the base kit where you have to hook each survivor once and then 2 random hooks before it kicks in.
Granted, it will then be hard for those that solely camp or tunnel to meet those requirements, but that might encourage them to mix in other strategies as well, thus making them better killers in the long run.
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That's not a bad idea. Like I said, it's an idea to reward the killer for a good hunt, limit the clutter on blood webs, and limit potential griefing with mori's during events.
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The odds are heavily stacked in the killer's favor, if the killer is worth their weight in pocket lint. That said, it is not impossible, you need to be patient, and a bit of luck/bad decision making by the killer can help.
Personally, I absolutely hate EGC as both killer and survivor. It is a fiasco, but oh well. It's better than having the occasional group of morons teabagging at the exits for 10 minutes. lol
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@SleepyWillo That goes without saying. You could not make it more difficult at higher level without rewards. The only way to properly balance though is by bracket. The skill level between casual and high rank is way too big to balance from the top down. This is a casual party game, not an esport style game. The bulk of the players are casual, as their own numbers have shown time and time again. Nerf survivors across the board, and you lose people, or end up with too many killers, which has happened several times over the past year.
Give an incentive to play in purple and red ranks, and increase the difficulty in order to help balance it out.