Warlock_2020
Warlock_2020
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I disagree with "average of the group" for SWF. I'm all for SWF and playing with your friends, but I don't think low level killers should be subjected to groups with 2 rank 19's and 2 red ranks. I say they should match the whole team vs a killer within 5 ranks of the highest ranking member of the team.
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It's why I have recommended rank-based tweaks. At purple ranks, survivors get a 5-10% repair speed debuff. Increase it to 15% at red ranks.
Basically, whether it is nerfs, or new map objectives, the higher rank you climb, the harder the maps should be for both.
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@doitagain_ Actually, the dream pallets can be set up anywhere a pallet could go. You don't have to put them where old pallets were used. I think the dream pallets are going to be a lot of fun for mind games.
As for the snares, I know they can only be used when survivors are asleep, but they are going to be seriously powerful if you can drop six of them while chasing someone. Loops should never happen if you have them asleep. Ever.
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@ClogWench I thought that at first too, but after taking a closer look at all his other abilities, I think this would be too much. If he could see auras, plus teleport to gens, lay traps/trick pallets, he would be a bit too much and we would risk a huge nerf again, putting back to square one. As it is, we have not really seen his addons yet. Throw a powerful addon on or two into the mix and give him aura seeing and it would be like fishing in a barrel with dynamite.
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Not all SWF are the same.... Some are really bad. This would be an unfair nerf to all the players, when only a few are good.
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@DarkGGhost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/564621#Comment_564621
As a survivor, you can get the same point as the killer per hour because as a survivor you can go to the next game after you die. Survivors are a way to easy to play more relaxed.
This is categorically false. I've run this test several times over the last year. I play Trapper with BBQ and a 50% category boost for 2 hours each time. Then I play a survivor with all perks unlocked, and escape cake each match for 2 hours. Trapper gets 75% more BP in that time on average. The difference is insane. If I used padded traps and pudding, those numbers nearly double.
This is a great change and one that will help killer que times if done right. Furthermore, if survivors are farming BP, they will hit totems more due to higher value. Makes it better on the gen rush.
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@peanits,
I have an idea, how about removing a perk from the lost once it has been on the shrine once in a calendar year u till you've cycled through them all. Or make some perks viable for up to 2 appearances and others once.
Seriously, I can write a simple Microsoft excel formula that can do that. I'm sure it would be easy for you Devs to do it as well.
Or is it by design that you keep putting the same lame perks up?
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Fair strat my arse. It is a butt-hurt child that does not want to play the game the way it was intended. Just wants to grief others. Gets rewarded for it too.
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As a color blind killer, those were rough, but still fun.
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I chase survivors in loops and get hit with pallets. Then I smack em real hard and throw them on a hook. Then other rude survivors come alone and pull my prize off the hook and I have to start all over again.
But, sometimes, I play survivor, and I forget what I'm doing and I chase other survivors in loops. It does not work out so well.
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Simple fix. If the last survivor is in dying state for 10 seconds, they get a concede button and the EGC animation finishes the match, giving the BP award for the survivor bleeding out. If the killer has the last survivor down, there is no reason to slug them other than to taunt. That is not helping the toxicity levels in this game. End it and move on.
If I slugged one and downed the 4th, I have roughly 20 seconds to find and pick up the slugged survivor. Approximately 5 to 10 seconds for the survivor hook response and death animation and 10 seconds of last survivor being in dying state. More than enough time, or I should get better at the process.
Personally, I rarely slug the 3rd survivor unless the 4th is right there. Too sweaty for me to care if I get 3k vs 4k, but I'm more laid back in this game than some.
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@Redd so true! I spent 700k on GF and got a ton. My wife spent 1.5 mil on Kate and got a whopping 4. Insane.
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This game is a casual party game. You are trying to change the meaning of 'competitive " in this context.
1. Competitive online gaming is referred to when talking about games where sponsored tournaments or esports get involved. DBD has never had such a tourney and likely never will due to there being no fair way to balance the game for it.
2. By the above examples of "competitive", NES' Mario Brothers fits in. Heck, any game that has had a vs mode fits in. PTO tournament anyone? No, that is not a competitive game measuring point. Paper football is more competitive than DBD by gaming standards. Unless you are in an SWF, you don't know if you will stand a chance. Get a team of potatoes for partners and you're hosed. Get a coordinated SWF and the killer is hosed. Not going to work in the competitive world of esports.
3. Due to the imbalances mentioned above, there is really only one reason to play this game, for fun and laughs. I've assisted in setting up game-cons in St. Louis, Phoenix, Atlanta and Detroit. DBD would never get past round 1. It would immediately be categorized as a party game with a niche genre. That is not a bad thing. But you can't build a prize-based tournament around it with any level of fairness.
4. Before people start talking about Smash being casual, yet competitive, keep in mind that it is also much more of a symmetrical game. Though some characters may tend to be op, most are decently balanced and that is why there are huge tournaments and even sponsored contenders who participate. DBD will never fall in that category.
5. The ranking system, according to the devs, is mainly to allow new players to progress. It is not an enforced and official system. It is too fluid and subject to manipulation.
DBD is a casual game. Having a vs concept does not put it in the realm of a competitive gaming category. Just enjoy
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I want to see a hook mori. Either the killer pulls the survivor in half, or hacks them up, leaving their corpse hanging on the hook. We need a hook mori, or a locker mori.
Locker mori would be the killer smashing through the locker and piercing the survivor through the eye. The body falls out and the locker is no longer useable.
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I don't like playing during events. Brings out all the campers and tunnelers as well as the toxic survivors and horrendous wait times in que because all the people playing killer due to the fact the survivor role sucks and does not give enough bp.
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@RoKrueger Nice try, but you know as well as I do that once you lock on, there is little a survivor can do if you want them down. So, not exactly easy to counter. Add in a decent tunnel off the hook and easy Mori. Move to next guy, likely the idiot who saved the first. It is all a game of chance as to whether the killer is sharp-eyed enough to see you. I don't call that a counter.
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@darkgghost Looping is the only thing survivors have once seen by the killer. Looping is dumb, but it has nothing to do with fair. If you want to talk about unfair things vs killers, then talk about coordinated SWFs that harass the killer throughout the game. That is more like it. But, by your standards, that's fair and legit.
Seriously, don't confuse a legit game mechanic, with fair. It is a very weak argument and one that comes from a pretty boorish mindset.
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@Nick You are absolutely right. It would be impossible to play. It would be more frustrating than fun after the first match or two. I'd avoid that mode like the plague as both killer and survivor. It would be boring as killer. Fish in a barrel while using dynamite to get the fish. Pointless.
@n2njauwu Not sure what you are talking about. This is an opinion forum and those who disagree should post. Without counter points of view, you will never iron out any idea worth its weight in pocket lint. Open your mind young Padawan and learn from those who disagree with the mainstream collectiveness.
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@RoKrueger I think that is where your assumption goes awry. The survivors are only a team if they are SWF. The core development is not teamwork as much as self preservation. If you think teamwork is the name of the game, you have not played much solo survivor. Teamwork has its limits and they are not far from the starting line.
If a total stranger is being camped, your odds of survival are much higher if you pound out a gen or two in the time they are being camped. If a friend is being camped in your SWF, you can coordinate the other SWF members via comms to free them. Very different situation. As the stats have shown, most matches are not vs SWF groups.
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@RoKrueger I'm just curious as to how mori spam is countered. Don't say "don't get caught " because that is a pure bs concept. I've yet to meet a survivor I could not down if I tried hard enough. Even the best survivor gets caught.
As for the original post, is camping/tunneling cheating? No. Is it exploiting mechanics? No. Is it fair? Absolutely not, especially at low ranks. As I stated above, every survivor gets caught. Once a low to mid rank survivor gets caught by a camper or tunneler, they are pretty much hosed.
But that is not what this is about. It is about you validating the activity in your own mind. So here are a few counter thoughts.
1. As on occasional tactic, both have their uses, especially at the higher ranks.
2. At lower ranks, it is bad for the game as a whole when there are so many hardcore campers and tunnelers. I played a few survivor matches last night and had 8 of 10 vs hardcore campers and tunnelers. Very boring, and sucked for some of the newbies who were victimized. As a few of them intimated, they have no interest in playing a game they can't actually learn to play. They enter a match, get caught easily one time because they are new, then tunneled to death. Not fun, hard to get new players to stay, therefore the playerbase grows stagnant.
3. Makes for an already boring survivor role to be even more boring. Best thing to do when facing a camper/tunneled is to hit gens and totems and roll out. I think the overabundance of those types of killers had a part in the current gen rush problem. Survivors were pushed into a habit of hit gens and go.
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Sounds good, but would be an absolute bloodbath. I fear most of the crappy killers that rely on tunneling and camping would flood to it and be really sweaty. Would have to change the name to griefer mode.
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The camping and tunneling problem is not easily addressed. It is ingrained in the game due to the game managers ignoring it, and endorsing it for so long. I can tell you that at least a dozen people I've tried to get to play this game quit quickly due to constant camping and tunneling. When I say tunneling, I mean staying just outside of TR and rushing after the unhooked survivor until they down them again. Repeat till dead.
I get that some of these are legit strategies at the higher ranks, but you see it used non-stop at rank 20-10. Newbies can't learn the game when smurf killers are wiping the floor with them by camping/tunneling. We need new people to experience better game play in the beginning so they stick around.
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@Peanits I think it would have more of an impact than some might think. One frustrating thing that causes some DC's is being tunneled to death for no BP when you use good bp offerings. If they were to get a bonus for hanging in there, they might do just that.
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The more time you spend 99'ing my hooks, the less time you're on my gens. Just drop my victim and wait for you to rescue, or chase the nearest survivor. That's 2 people of gens, three if someone comes to heal. Works for me.
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@GrootDude lol I even state that the strategy would not always work in my original post. What does work is being unpredictable and not latching on to chases at the cost of gens.
You obviously don't understand the concept though. You're too busy critiquing on scenario that I already admitted is not likely to always work out the way it did.
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@GrootDude You seem to miss the point. Too many killers get in a chase and hang on for dear life until they either lose them or get them. Be unpredictable and you will find higher success at pressuring the gen. If you follow that one survivor around the killer shack for 80 seconds when there are 2-3 gens potentially being worked on in that area, you are going to be gen-rushed.
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@Tsulan Yes, killer can only chase one at a time, but he can also be smart about it.
Example from last night
I ran Trapper and I hear a gen going near the killer shack but there is another gen around back in the open field. I see 1 on the nearby gen and I swoop by for a free hit. I then move to the next gen when the survivor predictably runs into the shack. 2 people are on that gen. 3 of the survivors are on gens near the shack. The 2 run opposite of each other. I chase Nea and hit her as she keeps a window to the jungle gym. I disengage because I'm sure the other 2 went back to their gens. Sure enough, Nea's partner returned and was shocked to see me so soon after hitting Nea.
I smack Jake and pursue him to the killer shack. I see Meg healing off to the side where the first gen encounter is and I ignore her so I can get Jake to loop around 1 more time. I then break off the chase of Jake and hit Meg, downing her. Jake takes off, but Nea is healed and back on that other gen. I run over to chase her off and get a hit. Kick the gen, back to Meg and Jake is healing her. Down Jake, kick gen and hook 2.
I was able to keep 3 survivors tied up by being unconventional. That may not always work, but it is how you can keep pressure on. You don't have to follow every chase through.
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Those claiming that SWF is an easy win are either really bad at killer, or don't realize how often they stomp an swf. Most suck. They are mostly filled with casual players who just play for fun. The really good ones are in red ranks, with a few griefers groups hanging around lower levels.
I used to play with my wife and sons before they quit the game. Nobody could call our swf good. We spent half the time trying to sandbag each other. Unfortunately, they quit playing when 8 of 10 matches were with a camping or tunneling killer. The fun was gone. It was gens and 3 escape. Before that, it was usually 3 of us die.
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@Dehitay As Peanits has pointed out, and statistics posted by BHVR have shown, SWF is a small grouping. Most SWF are not hit squads with meta perks. Most I run into get destroyed easily. Most are just friends having fun, and the killer still has the power mode. The less than 10% of players who are in the red ranks face those top tier groups. That's what the red ranks are for. Tough challenge, good players. Some hang, some don't.
I have zero problem with SWF, but I usually hang in the purple and green ranks. I don't care to play so hardcore that I push for red ranks. It's a casual game and I play it that way. Nerf SWF, and you punish the majority of SWF players that are not doing what you think they are.
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That is insanely bad. This would cause the lower rank (10-20) survivors to be slaughtered in larger droves than they already are. Furthermore, what about the idea that survivors quickly max out on their points for repairing gens. Now you want them to waste time to repair one they already repaired?
This makes original DS look like kids play.
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I play mostly killer, but constantly get dailies for killers I don't play. I don't play them because I hate playing them. I constantly get Nurse, Billy, Wraith, and Legion dailies. I play Trapper, Pig, Shape, Clown, and Doc primarily. Seriously annoying. My Billy, Nurse, and Legion are all lvl 1 to 5. Just stop it already.
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@weirdkid5 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/549437#Comment_549437
Smash is only just for casuals.
Still balanced around top 1%
Not sure what you are talking about here. Smash has huge tournaments with actual money prizes and regional championships. Not really the same thing. Just took my son to one in Detroit earlier this year. Over 100 contestants and the final 16 were insane good. The winner got over 5k in prizes. You'll never see that with DBD.
@Dehitay Legion was broken and even the developers admitted he was not being used the way they intended. The chase mechanic was exploited due to poor development. Apples and oranges. I'll never accuse BHVR's developers of being good, or competent for that matter. They are very short-sighted and are unable to adapt to exploits in their design. They are fantastic at conceptualizing great ideas, but horrible at putting them to the application stage.
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@Dehitay I would suggest knowing your genre before suggesting their balance philosophy is off. This is a casual party game. It is not a hardcore competitive game. This game is meant to be played by friends and people who love the horror genre. You don't balance such a game around the small group of hardcore competitive players.
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I said this from the start. The heck with his stalk power. What if he was a stealth killer who could not only hide in lockers, but also travel through them. So he hears someone on a gen and hops in a locker so he can jump out of a locker next to the gen. Lockers are highlighted in yellow for him.
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Since the DS rework, I've only been hit with it twice. Could be 10 seconds for all I care. It is more anti tunnel now than anything. I say good. I hate tunnelers.
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Not sure I like that avenue. Would like to see KYF with some sort of admin control and progression. I'd have more fun playing that and growing characters than with strangers. Sorry, but this game's community is just too toxic to enjoy playing online half the time.
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@Redd I don't think so. Camping has become so integral to how new killers play. Camping is also used heavily as a way to grief others.
I do find it funny that campers are who really taught survivors to hit the gens and ignore the rest. You can sort of thank them for the gen rush everyone is frustrated with at higher ranks.
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So, now you force survivors to run a specific perk in order to have a decent chance of finding some type of hidden battery? No, this would be and even bigger bloodbath.
I know there is a lot of focus on second objectives, but there really is not a need for it until you get to purple and red ranks. Green and yellow rank survivors are already dying in droves. It would stifle out new players as well.
I get the idea being thrown around, but I hope the developers are very careful before putting anything in. It could easily strangle the population even more.
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@LegitAdventurer fanbois will always defend the stupidity of the company they support. BHVR has a very unique property in DBD, but they are too incompetent to build it up correctly.
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Legal, yes. Sketchy business practice, most definitely. That's why I'll never buy anything from BHVR again.
Edit: I say sketchy because there is no way they don't understand the impact something like MoM will have on the game. They knew it would sell, and they could change it afterwards. That is either extreme incompetence or sketchy business practice.
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3k and he's complaining? The Legion bug was a guaranteed win and locked players down for elongated times. Wake Up found a bit of use due to EGC, but also adds to other speeds due to bug. You obviously are not hosed by it as you seemed to fair just fine.
I' e played about 20 killer matches this weekend and never felt WU was causing me to lose. Had a few rough matches, but still got 3 to 4k in each. Honestly, I don't think more than one ever got away in any one match, and I'm not that good a killer. I'm colorblind and can't see motionless survivors on most maps, especially The Game! Argh!
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I noticed that Iron Will was almost useless. I was very loud using Jeff with Iron Will.
Played Trapper all day and was surprised at how loud survivors were, even with Iron Will. In essence, they nerfed IW?
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They were removed because killers have all the power in EGC now. It is not tilted in the survivors favor. Their best hope is to find the hatch. If you put the grab back in, now we have standoffs again.
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@LCGaster said:
Buffing killer opportunities? What does that even mean?
Well, build in a few things. When the killer has been hit with a flashlight blind X times in a match, it begins to become less effective. You lower the stun by a % equal to the amount of battery that's been used. Make some perks that are never really used part of the base package or an option to have a steady power. Such as Monstrous Shrine, Overwhelming Presence, Hangman, Predator, Territorial Imperative, etc. Just ideas.
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@Pike_Trickfoot I'm not sure. I have never played Overwatch, but it sounds like it. I know when I play survivor, if I get a killer who is not tunneling or camping, I don't care if he owned my arse, I want to hand with that killer. Fun, and I can improve my skills. As a killer, I would like to have fun survivors, win or lose, stay in my lobby so I can go match, to match.
It might even help some with the toxicity. Maybe.....
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@darktrix It is not being punished for raising in rank. Higher rank is higher difficulty. Many killers are not overly viable at high rank because survivors are so much more coordinated and can use abilities to the the optimal level. Therefore, increasing the difficulty would mean more variety in killers as well.
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@martin27 I liked the first part of your idea there. I'm not big on eliminating 2nd chance perks. Those don't bother me that much. The old DS was rough when facing 4 survivors with it. MoM can be rough with a coordinated group running MoM, DH, Adrenaline together. I think it would better if each perk had a point value and you could only take X value with you based on prestige. So, P1 survivor can take 75 points worth of perks. P2 100, P3 125. Make second chance perks expensive so they can't be so easily stacked.
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I'm wary of adding more steps. I fear that will cause half the ranks in the game to become even more lopsided than they are now. It will also discourage new players when they get stomped already without the extra steps. There has to be another way. We need new people to be attracted to the game, or the population goes stagnant. Extra steps will just be discouraging. I played survivor this week for the first time in months and the amount of self-admitted smurf accounts was alarming. These new people playing were getting destroyed. Bad for business. Extra steps will only make this worse.
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@Chaotic_Riddle I agree.
I also agree with some of what the others have said too. I am just wondering if nerfing is the right avenue. In order to create balance, you can't just nerf, nerf, and nerf some more. There are other ways. For example, a potential work-around for MoM would have been to allow killers to have a built-in chance to critical hit, thus cutting through MoM and BT type perks. Would not always work, but for every perk in a match like BT or MoM, the killer's chance increases by X%. (That may not be the best example, but it is a base idea. There are ways around problems that don't include nerfs.)
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@Kurisataru I never said whether the nerf was needed or not. I said the combination of nerfs have pushed the survivors to focus solely on gens.