UnicornMedal
UnicornMedal
About
- Username
- UnicornMedal
- Joined
- Visits
- 892
- Last Active
Comments
-
To be totally honest, the abandon feature is just a "legal" go next. So it might as well be improved to have a little more leniency in those situations.
-
@hermitkermit said:
You don't need to worry about inaccurate results, as any DC are not counted in the stats. But yeah, players quitting should be taken seriously.
I bring this point up alot but before the massive shift of the game to put killers in a power role, killers themselves were getting scarce. Nobody wanted to play killer because there was a ton of ridiculous busted stuff in the game. The wait times were getting super long, and the players of the killer role were very unsatisfied. This pushed the devs to make several big changes to make the killer role more appealing, bring players back, and help with wait times.
The only reason the game changed is because killers were unhappy with the state the game was in. I personally believe they had every right to be. The difference is now survivors aren't happy with the state the game is in, but instead of it being taken seriously, it's often labeled as entitled or unreasonable. Survivors are pretty unsatisfied with the survivor role, currently, and we're seeing the effects of it so intensely that they had to implement an entire system just to stop people from quitting the game. I don't condone quitting, but I don't ignore it either. It was an issue when killers weren't enjoying their role, it should be an issue when survivors aren't either. Phase 2 is said to be focusing on alot of pain points, so hopefully it will help.
I'm sorry DC's are ruining your matches. I wish you better games and hope that things change in the future with phase 2. Cheers!
I think more than anything, this last 3 years has proven how resilient Survivors are. We expect to die most of the time, so it's naturally a bit less dramatic. But we've put up with diminishing returns to a ridiculous degree. If anti-go next was even slightly less terrible, I think it would've stayed. That's why I have very low hopes that phase 2 will actually do anything to help the game, but we'll see. You never know until it goes live.
@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968816#Comment_3968816
If someone leaves and leaves a bot irdc. I can ask the devs to tweak bots if they’re too weak or strong. It’s AI after all and follows commands. There’s not a lot you can do about someone leaving an empty space though.
I just see people dc still when there’s like 10 seconds left of their life and they are absolutely eating a penalty because there’s still multiple people up(meaning it’s not abandon). Which is just perplexing, to me personally. I don’t have a problem with it because it’s not affecting gameplay at that point, I just find it to be an interesting choice, especially considering that’s what I’m mostly seeing now.
It's exhaustion. They'd rather the Killer be stuck with a bot and eat the penalty, because at the very least they aren't killing a real player. I tend to see it after a battle of attrition usually.
@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968749#Comment_3968749
yeah, how do we improve it?
do we change the design of the game and make it more fair? do we change matmachmaking system to be more accurate at matching people of equal skill? or do we defend this till the game dies and blame people for playing the game and punish them for it by handicapping them just so we maintain the unhealthy status quo?
spoiler for phase 2 update: if they're anywhere meaningful, things will only get worse, just in a different way. if they arent, nothing will marginally change.
Until the game is changed completely, it's gonna be a very slow back and forth. BHVR prides itself on its work practices, which listen—I don't think it's a net negative that devs aren't married to their projects or sleeping on the floor 2 weeks before launch anymore. But, that's a far cry from having what appears to be poor time management. I won't get into all of it, but it's obvious to me that that's likely what's going on. So we'll continue to get patches that conflict with one another or go into effect long after they're needed and promises that take years to fulfill.
We need a game that is dynamic, offers much more autonomy to players, is either conservative or liberal with the amount of busted mechanics you can use (not in the middle like it is now), and most important of all a clear direction for what the game is and what it's meant to accomplish. Realistically however, all of that is a pipe dream. At least at this point in time. So we can only hope that the pendulum swings toward something for fun sometime very soon before it moves again.
-
@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968678#Comment_3968678
The problem is that I, like most killers, would literally never queue up for the "Play against SWFs mode." I would honestly rather them delete every slowdown perk in the game than play against someone on comms. I would play the no-swf mode even if they just took away all perks and all addons.
It would essentially be the comp mode. There's all different ways to address and balance it. I assume every idea is just a starting point. But if you're not a comp player, than it wouldn't be the mode for you. It for sure wouldn't be mine either.
@DBD2025MakesMeSad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968676#Comment_3968676
It wasn't an afterthought. It was always planned to be in the game It just wasn't ready for launch.
The lie about how it wasn't supposed to be in the game needs to stop being used.
That line of thought doesn't ever help anything either. Because regardless of whether it was an afterthought or not, the game has had 9 years to adjust to it. And there was very little effort to bridge that gap until recently with the HUD. At some point everyone has to admit that BHVR dropped the ball when it comes to teamwork.
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968659#Comment_3968659
Survivor basekit changes:
- Borrowed Time (incompatible with nearly every anti-tunnel perk)
- Anti-Facecamp (useless)
- Insanely generous regression limit
- +10 seconds on hooks
- Hook grabs removed
- Bots added for a warm body the killer can freely ignore until they get hatch
Killer basekit changes:
- +10 seconds to gens
- 10% faster action speed
- Bloodlust buffs
- +2.5% damage on gen kick
- Flashlight clicking removed
- Base kit lightborn on locker grabs
- +2.5% more damage on gen kick
- No insta-clicking to prevent regression (anti gen tap)
- Smaller maps, entire realm reworks, more dead zones, pallets weakened, tile spawn logic reworked to prevent chaining
- Healing nerfs to improve hit and run playstyles (CoH, medkits)
- "Gen rush" nerfs (BNP deleted, Prove nerfed)
- Survivors all spawn together (more gen rush nerf)
- Individual killer buffs every chapter for 2 years, most of which made some add-ons partially or completely base kit
- Bots added to allow perks to trigger even if the survivor disconnects
- Anti-hiding (crows buffed, distortion deleted)
FTFY
Don't forget second chance perks being heavily nerfed, when they're one of the only ways Survivors can defend themselves, and the heavy denial of endgame presence. Most of our perks and aids shut off once the gates are powered (which is what makes the "free escape" argument moot every single time—what about "free kills"?). Most recently, another endgame perk was nerfed despite having no issue with the game at all.
-
@SigmaLord said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968477#Comment_3968477
This is such an ironic statement. Where are the killer buffs? You're literally admitting to the massive survivor basekit changes while killers get… Nada.
Survivor basekit changes:
- Borrowed Time
- Unbreakable (tested twice, not implemented)
- Anti-Facecamp
- Anti-tunnel (soon)
- Anti-camp (soon)
Killer basekit changes:
- 10% faster action speed
- 5% damage on gen kick
- No insta-clicking to prevent regression
Wow, this clearly favors killers.
It's all an unknown for now. But given how basekit changes to Survivor and Killer have gone down in recent years, it's not at all unreasonable to assume the changes will either be very minimal, very extreme to the point it gets rolled back, or introduce something that harms Survivor play while claiming to help.
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968649#Comment_3968649
I personally think it is a losing battle. The only thing that makes sense to me honestly is to create 2 separate queues, and balance them differently.
For example, they can finally create that hardcore "ranked mode" and make it be 1 killer vs guaranteed 4 SWFs.
Then in the "normal queue" you only allow people to queue up with 1 other person, and set up matchmaking so the match is always 4 solos, or 1 duo and 2 solos.
Yeah, you lose out on the 3-man, but, the idea there is the duos can meet up with new people and potentially queue up for ranked. And its not much different than other games like League or DotA which need a team of 5 and one of the modes is relegated to ranked play and the other is solo.
Then you balance the modes differently. For example, in the normal mode, survivors get all their basekit stuff, maybe throw in basekit kindred, or even DS or whatever else, make the gens 80 seconds instead of 90 etc. And in the SWF mode, you throw in a bunch of basekit stuff for killer, like pain res, or corrupt, make gens take 100 seconds etc. The numbers and ideas aren't relevant, but the idea is you can just balance each mode differently.
It's not a bad idea and it's something that's been requested for years and years. They've already implemented game modes, so I don't think this would be hard to figure out. In another thread, the idea of the second mode being a bit more like 2v8 with classes instead of perks was tossed around. I think that could work too.
-
Countdown to Negan so we can have 3 🕺
-
Excited for a new boy 😍 It's been a while.
-
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968477#Comment_3968477
The problem is and always has been SWFs, If the mechanic is setup in a way that SWFs with free discord communication are able to exploit it to gain an advantage, then is a problem. Its tough to create an anti-tunnel/anti-slug system that isn't abusable. The only thing i can think of is just fundamentally rebalancing the game around hooks and chases instead of kills, and then just make tunneling impossible from a gameplay perspective (I.E. my often suggested idea of survivors sharing the first hook state)
Therein lies the problem. Players want solos and SWFs to be more aligned, while getting upset over external comms and simultaneously stonewalling the idea of in-game comms. I think they're long overdue.
That being said, BHVR has tried to bring the two halves closer together via kill rates but it doesn't seem like it's quelled any of the upset.
@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968581#Comment_3968581
Iirc, weren't survivor queues at 10-20+ minutes prior to 6.1.0 in non-peak hours? If they hadn't done a course correction, the game probably would have died then and there.
Killer mains don't have a social aspect to keep them playing even when it's miserable like survivors do. If I'm not having fun, I just log off for the night/week/month. I think I didn't play more than five games total over like a year between years 7 and 8.
Like everything with DBD, it was anecdotal. I've never had a queue that long on either side in my region. But that's not to say that it never happened to anyone (granted, I'm sure I'd experience that if I played 2v8 as Killer).
I would argue solos likely make up the majority and it's the same for them as well. I play during events, maybe do my weeklies when the new rift tier unlocks, and that's it. I feel like DBD occupies a not-so-healthy place in a lot of player's lives, mine included. Best to keep it limited.
-
@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968549#Comment_3968549
Oh my bad i have autism so i have hard time processing stuff all good!
nw brotha 😎
@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968531#Comment_3968531
sure, as long I don't have to play with those players.
I am simply too stubborn to quit against any build/killer, but it definetly annoys me when others quit as soon something goes wrong for them.You can never make everything go right for individual players, but you can eliminate most things going catastrophic for the entire party. Both parties, I might add. Encouraging harsher penalties while doing nothing to address steamrolls is a recipe for disaster.
-
@ThatRyanB said:
Hey there folks! I'm happy to share that Phase 2 of the Quality of Life updates is already underway, with pieces of the roadmap having been tested as part of the recent 9.1.0 PTB. This included the Map and Key item balancing and Custom Game improvements. On top of these, improved keyboard and mouse support on consoles is also coming alongside our upcoming update.
Of course, this is just the start of Phase 2! We'll have more to share about other aspects on this phase soon, so stay tuned.
Thanks for always being a nice guy, honestly. I've lurked here for a long time and the staff don't have a great reputation, but as far as I've seen you're always composed and bow out when things get hairy instead of getting defensive or antagonistic. Good stuff. 😎
-
@Raccoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968536#Comment_3968536
Who knows?
I figured we'd have had more communication by now so that people could figure out potential problems or improvements, speculate on its success, etc.
It's all delayed. Which means the big balance patch is definitely not what we were told it was. But that's to be expected.
@DBD2025MakesMeSad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968536#Comment_3968536
It will definitely end up being something that stops someone getting tunnelled effectively in about 1 in 750 games and killers will get a load of sweeping buffs to "compensate" for this 1 in 750 game event but still moan that they can't 4k every single game in the first 4 seconds of the match and then BHVR will work on QoL patch that allows them to do that - All survivors start the trial exposed for the first 9 minutes.
There is also a bond between survivors, if you down 1 the other 3 go down in the first 25mins of a game.
Survivors can play an offering that reduces both of these effect timers by 0.25% per offering, so a whopping 1% reduction if they all play it.
Obviously these are jokes but I did once make a joke about a survivor perk that once used for a small effect would result in you being broken for the rest of the trial and that became a rreality with invocations
It's all rooted in truth lmao
At the end of the day, most Survivors just want to play the game. Give us stuff to do that earns XP and feels engaging and rewarding and at the very least makes us feel like we might escape. Getting really lame perks that nobody wants to use and trials that feel like they almost require a magic wand to get through and no autonomy to do anything about it as if we've signed a legally binding contract to be a part of it no matter what is not what I'd call engaging or rewarding play. Certainly not hopeful.
-
@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968536#Comment_3968536
Considering that we had a post in February giving a thorough overview of what each part of Phase 1 would contain and why, yet it's almost August and have nothing regarding Phase 2 besides a cancelled Anti-Slug test, I'm going to say you're right that they are scrambling to get something actually usable together. I think they were planning on making these wide, sweeping changes to the way the game played, but since Phase 1 was so universally hated we're probably going to get something practically useless.
It'd make the most sense, unless something internally has changed rapidly overnight.
@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968547#Comment_3968547
To be fair, I think that survivor egos are the root cause for killer egos. It's hard to remain chill about losing when it's rubbed in your face.
This is something that isn't reactionary though. I could agree that the attitude around individual game mechanics would be tied to that. But the expectation of winning effortlessly is ingrained in every game in the genre, as it is for Survivor-type players knowing that they'll likely die but expecting to play a reasonable amount before then.
The issue with DBD is that they never should have made it easier for Killer to win, because that upset the balance entirely. There were a million and one things they could've done before that that would've made the game better. Personally I think the idea of the queue failing scared them and they made a bad decision to try to save it, but it's harmed the game more than anything. Phase 1 was another repeat of that, which was thankfully pulled but now has a ripple effect on phase 2.
-
@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968531#Comment_3968531
Tbh you can spoof your HWID pretty easily through BIOS
and also through windows, like you can fully change up your pc wipe clean (but i wont give any tutorial and its only used againts cyberattacks anyways)
But yep for console its not possible
I was mainly being a turd with that response anyway lmao
-
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968494#Comment_3968494
these people unironically thinking the game will become better if they just massively nerf killer's macro skillcap like this and let it be and pat each other on heads for saying how silly killers dare demand alternatives for whole strategies devs plan to effectively make useless
Alternately, I don't believe that people are nearly as skilled as they think they are at this game. There are an awful lot of "one trick ponies" that only camp and tunnel or only slug, and haven't learned anything else.
Ideally, if BHVR does it correctly, they should be able to target the excessive uses of these strategies, and leave the situational, or end game, uses largely alone. What that looks like, no one knows yet, and we can barely speculate what that might be.
I honestly argue that this isn't lowering the skill cap, it's raising the skill floor. And to reinforce that people aren't as skilled as they think they are at this game: one of the biggest indicators of "mastery" in anything is being able to adapt. The better you are at something, anything, the more you can accept handicaps or restrictions and still perform.
they dont realize that this is going to play out exactly as mandy said then - people will drop in mmr and will end up in lobbies where they can play without optimizing hooks and pressure.
So if you think that "meaningfully addressing camping and tunneling" is going to lower people's MMR, I agree. Because people can't easily adapt and have used those strategies to boost themselves for years. That's the literal definition of a crutch.
Ideally, solving these issues will make games less sweaty for killers also, as they are facing opponents closer to their actual skill level. It will take a while, and it will take losing a lot for that MMR to balance itself out after all this time. Most people won't accept that, since losing is anathema to a lot of killer players here.
We might end up losing some people, but I've been assured (aggressively) on these forums that killers can adapt to anything, while survivors can't. So I guess we may or may not see that in action.
I'm honestly not sure where you think noob stomping is coming into play here, since people will settle into a skill bracket where they can handle whatever system is put into place in phase 2. I honestly suspect that there will be a period of "settling" as killers lose MMR to more closely be matched to their appropriate skill levels, and then things will largely proceed from there with 60% kill rates.
And, as a reminder, we don't know what that is at this point. So any "the sky is falling" is entirely unjustified yet.
This isn't really an "us vs them" point, but Killer egos are a very real problem when it comes to asymm horror games. I think that will always hold the genre hostage when it comes to balance changes. Somewhere along the way BHVR realized that and made a lot of bad decisions, leaving us where we are now. You're right that I think a lot of Killer players will stop queuing for Killer if the game resembles anything close to a fair matchup and that's why I don't think these changes are realistically going to do anything that they really should.
-
@Raccoon said:
Maybe they don't have anything planned yet and are going to wing it at the last second.
According to them, everything is planned months to a year in advance. Do I buy that? Ehhhh… But I do think they have a plan this time. Unfortunately I also think it's probably not great, which is fair given their track record, and now they're too afraid of how phase 1 went down to properly implement it. So I'm thinking they'll either scrap it entirely, or we'll get some watered down version of it that is like "it's better than nothing, I guess?".
-
@PetTheDoggo said:
Just increase DC penalty, so players think a little bit more about quiting.
The amount of players I have seen to DC, when they are about to be sacrificed is pathetic. Like you are about to be done in 10 seconds, why the hell would you DC?
Those players clearly don't enjoy DBD, so simply force them to take a break…@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968364#Comment_3968364
I think dc penalty has to be more serious where it fully stuns BP growth, player level growth so no more of those shards that unlock characters or skins or perks.
People are taking it to lightly and also they have been doing a weird trick with unplugging their internet lately which doesnt give them a penalty because their internet cut off they didnt press abandon.
Better yet, it should force a hardware ban so you can never play again 🙃
-
@NightWolfsFury said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966061#Comment_3966061
I have been saying over and over that forcing players to play in a specific way is not healthy for the game. If someone doesn’t want to play against a certain killer or on a certain map, they will not play. Even if you force them to stay in the match, the team would be better off without them or with a bot.
I’ve had people get saved who wanted to go next that start throwing every pallet in the game and being annoying and sandbagging. Just let people leave. At least the useless bot is a a little less useless than a teammate who doesn’t want to be in the trial. Just let people D/C so I have a better chance at a good game than keeping the thrower hostage.
I agree. Ideally no one would go next, but avoiding the problems that make the game unfun for so long and trying to force people not to give up when it comes so naturally is just going to exacerbate fatigue. The players that like the system as is would rather punish their peers and harm the game further than play with bots that actually will fill a slot in the trial without complaint.
-
@Roco45 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967781#Comment_3967781
You're right tho. I used to run builds as Surv that was focused on chests, but then some years back the game changed for the worst and there wasn't any time anymore in SoloQ to rummage through a chest. It got so bad that even BHVR decreased the time it takes to open a chest, but in SoloQ it's still barely feasible especially since aside from most Killers being OP, they run lethal (a perk that should have never been added) and are not only ontop of Survs seconds in to the match, but hook someone shortly thereafter to usually proc another aura reading perk. There is no time in matches anymore to do anything but gens while Killers cry about "gen rushing".
Exactly, there just isn't a lot of time or patience for side objectives that aren't progressing the trial or distracting the Killer. Often times, healing and unhooking even take a backseat. If BHVR intends on keeping secondary objectives for Survivor and more importantly wants to score players on them, they either have to make them more feasible or just take them out and replace them with something else.
-
@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967392#Comment_3967392
Not gonna lie... Tenacity is my favourite perk in the game for this very reason... you move much faster and can frequently be surprisingly clutch .
I love the options/agency it gives me while slugged... and it helps me so often in lots of quirky scenarios, I'm starting to think the perk is heavily underrated.
- It can make picking up awkward for killers, as they try to face walls to avoid beams, you can waste 2 or 3 extra seconds just by crawling out from under their feet with Tenacity, and often when you do, you force them to look around more to avoid beams, and can waste 5-6s or more... which can means the difference between a gen pop and a pain res.
- Any time you are downed, if the killer has to push another survivor away, or simply there happens to be a gen or pallet nearby they want to kick, they can't be gone more than maybe 10 seconds without a very real chance of losing you... I've given a surprising number of killers the slip with Tenacity.
- You can move and recover at the same time, which I'm beginning to think is better than Unbreakable tbh vs. a slugging killer. You can actually move apart from teh slug location to somewhere safer for you and your team, while also losing no time on recovery.
- Tenacity ALWAYS works and the killer kinda has to deal with you; if ignored, you become a pain for the killer... you are quiet, hard to see and move at respectable speed... whereas Unbreakable you're largely stuck in place and only works once and ONLY if the killer leaves you slugged...
- You can also take Plot Twist for a perk that effectively let's you heal on the move... and it even works as a budget Unbreakable that can force the killer to pick up in certain hatch scenarios.
Every now and again I take it off,and every time I do, I regret it... the more I play with it, the more Tenacity is becoming a staple of my build... 😶
If I had more slots, Tenacity would be in every build for sure. I used to run No Mither, Unbreakable, Tenacity, and Resilience, but it made me into too much of a one trick pony.
-
@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967727#Comment_3967727
That system is going to get some changes and it will come back.
Same thing with this system, try fail and try again.
I'm a lot more in favor of that than the usual model of "we tried it 8 years ago and it didn't work so we can never try it again".
-
Yes and I'm sure it has to be by design.
-
@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967781#Comment_3967781
The amount of stuff that you can do while slugged never really changed. As for the removal of self unhook without SOME build around it... that was mostly ever used to ragequit. If you want to do that, the DC button hasn't moved. Thats kinda like how hook grabs were removed for the overall health of the game.
I dont mean to put words in your mouth, but the entire first part talking about lull periods just comes across as "before I can just kinda screw around and take my time doing anything and I'd still win, but now the killer is pressuring me too much". I know thats not what you SAID, but thats how it reads. It really shouldn't be a case where one side is giving it their all right away while the other side is just meandering and still thinks they should win.
By all means, you can still open chests and all that... just dont explore the whole map opening every chest before thinking about your objective.
True, but a lot these changes have only emphasized those issues. They went from annoying, but manageable to glaring in only the course of a few years. A lot of mechanics are overdue for a change.
That's not entirely incorrect. When the pressure is on the entire Survivor team, individual Survivors do have more time to accomplish their goals. Which again, the game does expect you to accomplish. Currently the pressure is more focused on individual Survivors, with Killer forcing the trial into a 1v3 as quickly as possible and then picking off the rest with ease or forcing an early abandon via slugging. Addressing that does naturally put more pressure on the Killer, but that's the nature of the role. The more wiggle room the Killer has, the more punishing Survivor becomes.
There's two major ways to go about solving this: go back to the formula where Killer has less room for mistakes and Survivor has more (hopefully meeting somewhere in the middle), or keep Killer in the same place they're in now and give Survivor more comebacks and self-defense. Because currently, Survivor consists of a lot of high risk, no reward play. With the go next penalty, all we've accomplished is forcing Survivors to stick around in mostly hopeless situations where they are still likely to give up, just not in the same way they used to. If those hopeless situations could turn around, either by giving more to do or more chances to turn the trial around (both offering more of what Survivors ultimately want and are sorely lacking—gameplay), we'd naturally see a decrease in going next. Hopefully.
The elephant in the room is that MMR has made winning much more important than having fun, so there's the chance that even making Survivor much more bearable to play would not please enough people unless they won A LOT more often. But I'd like to see how making the role better would affect things before shooting it down based on hypotheticals.
-
@LordGlint said:
Im confused... who at BHVR is saying you arnt allowed to open chests? T
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967771#Comment_3967771
The increased pressure of the trial. Again, anecdotal, but there was always a lull period during the trial in the past where Survivors could feasibly run a totem build and clear them all without a heavily elevated risk of losing. That was a thing all the way up to 6.1.0 (though less so the year before when MMR was introduced). BHVR has implemented new features to make totems and chests more attractive, but not a whole lot to allow players to interact with them enough to not risk a 4k.
That's just scoring events as well. If we're talking autonomy as a whole, there's the amount of time you spend doing nothing while slugged or on hook (with anti-go next removing even more interactions from hook), the lack of comeback mechanics, very little presence during endgame, etc.
-
@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967758#Comment_3967758
Just for the record... what EXACTLY does that mean "give survivors more autonomy". Autonomy to do what?
Survivor scoring events include elements that are considered throwing these days like opening chests and breaking totems. Either they need enough freedom to do things like that or those objectives should be axed.
-
@PigWithTvs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967636#Comment_3967636
yea this forums and the dbd community in general follows a simply rule
survivor complains : good
killer complains : bad
its been like this for years, either its a good take or bad take
hell i got downvoted for telling people to stop rage quitting at the first 10 seconds
I don't think I agree with this at all. It almost always boils down to who sees what you say more than what you actually say. It seems consistent across all platforms, unless you're in a Killer-specific place.
-
@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967669#Comment_3967669
Ppl hate going down...period. I'd have ppl ragequit after going down against Pig with just an average balanced build. The moment they got the queue to self unhook, they were hitting it. You can't really blame it on balance or unfair gameplay when ppl were having that reaction against EVERYTHING.
Absolutely we can.
This is purely anecdotal, but… I remember around 2020, DCing on down or going next on hook was really not a common thing. It did happen, but it was always kind of a surprise. Same with everyone getting slugged. You'd get one a-hole Doctor or Nurse and then you'd go weeks without it. Not that the game wasn't an unbalanced mess or that it didn't cause any frustration, but all of it was more bearable overall.
However, the day 6.1.0 went live, all of that changed. Suddenly the power imbalance was in your face and trials were hopeless. Granted we're not in the same exact spot now, but trials don't inspire as much hope as they used to. There's a lot of criticism around Survivor having too much time to fool around in the past, but when you look at Survivor objectives that's exactly what they're meant to do.
To be completely honest, the damage is already done and it's incredibly hard to wind back the clock on that (see Skull Merchant as an example) so there's no guarantee that anything could deflect giving up anymore. But I'd be willing to try and see if there is. And giving Survivor more autonomy is a good way to start.
-
Literally my one condition lmao
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967637#Comment_3967637
I enjoy fighting people when I'm right.
Two peas in a pod lmao I'm trying not to get in trouble just yet though.
-
@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967639#Comment_3967639
Would be really nice for m1 killers to get like small + indoor maps to somewhat avg maps but never large ones, and same goes for m2 to get large and outdoors and rarely indoors or small
That would really reward players honestly
I'd be more than willing to give it a shot.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967575#Comment_3967575
Thought Garden was kinda ass for everyone.
Eyrie is just too open still, unfortunately.
Toba's biggest advantage is the size of the map imo. The loops aren't good, but it's not easy to control the map.
The Game is absolutely Killer-sided depending on the Killer. Obviously, Trapper is going to have a bad time.
Hawkins is wildly Killer-sided.
Gas Heaven really depends on what tiles spawn, imo.
Especially the new Eyrie variation. That map is butt cheeks.
-
@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967390#Comment_3967390
Hey, thanks. Yeah, I think there’s plenty of potential there for small adjustments or variations of maps. I think it’s kinda crazy how sometimes it’s not if the killer is more skilled, or if the survivors are more skilled, it’s just the map lol. Maps should be an even playing field.
I agree. It's a better investment of time than the new maps we get as well, which are less than ideal let's say lol
-
@jedimaster505 said:
Rage quitting is what happens when you balance the game heavily in favor of crybaby killers to sell more licensed pay to win DLC like Kaneki. The intentional 60/40 target is to aim for imbalance, which violates game theory and thus creates frustration (for survivors) and boredom (for killers) instead of a flow state.
The flow state is achieved through an optimized ratio of challenge and reward, which is 50/50. The fact that DBD is asymmetrical is no excuse to imbalance the PvP, because asymmetrical has always referred to the roles of 1 killer vs 4 survivors, ever since the inception of the game. It has nothing whatsoever to do with a difficulty imbalance for either side. Killer mains just now use this "asymmetrical" term to defend poor balancing decisions that have largely ruined the player experience.
All games have rage quitters because any game can get frustrating in certain scenarios. The issue is that DBD has the most rage quitters of any PvP I've ever played, and this is entirely a game design issue. Only masochists will willingly be the pinata for a low skill killer mains power fantasy. Anyone else who values their sanity just quits the game and ideally uninstalls, because a game without fair counter play isn't worth playing.
100%. DBD's greatest enemy is itself. The genre is not an easy one to balance for a number of reasons, but these past 3 years have aged the game stronger than its first 6. And it's because it just doesn't work as a game anymore. It really is bordering on PVE.
@NekoGamerX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967398#Comment_3967398
I feel like people who play this game try to get the other side to ragequit don't matter the side trying.
maybe some want the game to die
As the game's changed, it's become more in favor of the people that stream content that makes you feel yucky. Going out of their way to really mess with players that don't know how/can't counteract them. Not that it wasn't that way at all before, but the vibe has definitely shifted.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967508#Comment_3967508
Yeah except giving up isn't breaking any rules.
You can't possibly force people to try.
I was wondering why there were so many replies and I found the reason lmfao
-
@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967433#Comment_3967433
oh yeah.
good example is the devolution of the survivor gameplay. even though it became much more balanced, the way it was accomplished is by making solo player's agency / impact on the match much less meaningful compared to good teamwork.
you have way less power to win chases, you have to rely on teammates way more and situational / optional teamwork plays are utterly devastating but only if you're doing them with your team.
another thing is "win harder" meta. it's so difficult to make comebacks in this game and every year there are less and less options for that.
It just highlighted the pre-existing issues with the game. It's one thing if the players suck the fun out of the game, but when the developer gets on board with that as well, you end up where we are. People say they have a lot of fun with DBD, but I don't know that that's entirely true. It doesn't offer a great casual experience anymore and it's really underwhelming for a comp game compared to anything else.
@Shinkiro said:
If we're going to punish killers for more optimal objective gameplay then we're going to punish survivors for optimal objective gameplay right? Right?
That's how these patches typically roll out. Something that benefits Survivor marginally with a hefty nerf to counteract it which is a buff for Killer. The 3 gen meta is a good example. We'll never hear the end of the 8 kick limit just because Eruption chews it up, but the removal of gen tapping was a massive change from a patch that was designed to help Survivor to begin with.
I would genuinely be shocked if these phase 2 changes (if they roll out) actually make a real dent in camping/tunneling/slugging and don't do something additional like nerfing half of the Survivor perks or making gens take 150 seconds or something. The bait and switch of, "yes we did address those issues, but made sure to compensate enough that it doesn't really matter".
-
Something tells me we're gonna get a lot of Japanese representation via anime chapters.
-
@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967403#Comment_3967403
you're absolutely right.
people dont want the game to be fair, they explicitly want to maintain the status quo of being able to abuse unfair things for themselves but not to deal with the unfair things the opponent has.
and it's somewhat okay in a very unhealthy way when these unfair things cancel each other out in a rock-paper-scissors manner, but for the last few years we've been basically in a situation where people that main paper demand scissors to be deleted while telling rock mains that they should just git gut against paper.
they want to feed their ego beating down real people reduced to the capacity of AI. that's immediately apparent when you just get into the game and play "big scary killer" simulator once you grasp the basics and then not so long after the roles switch when you realize that you are not meant to win fairly. any of your wins are founded on survivors consistently (thats very important, one-two ######### ups arent enough anymore) messing up the counterplay, failing interactions or their own part of the one-sided skill expression. anytime you are facing off with a roughly equal or god forbid better opponent, you can only hope they throw the game.
it's really sad that this is the direction we keep going instead of focusing on making the game more interactive and enabling fair skill expression even if it remains ultimately asymmetric. devs refuse to determine a fair win condition, devs refuse to design around win condition, devs punish for playing for win condition and blame you for playing for win condition.
For sure. The game wasn't necessarily balanced ideally years ago, but the balls to the wall play certainly felt better. Now players are just as frustrated, but with more restrictions and less fun.
-
@SpringMyTrap said:
See lots of suggestions here and in other similar threads that boil down to "give survivors nuclear counterplay that eliminates tunneling as an option forcing killer to play suboptimally".
nobody tries to look into why or how the game's own design encourages tunnelling, nobody tries to suggest a rework to the system to emerge a more fun optimal strategy, just blame players for playing the game in the way you dont want them to and nerf nerf nerf.
The bulk of balance arguments for the game almost always boil down to "rules for thee but not for me".
Truly, I don't think BHVR nor the player base really wants the game to be fun and fair. We'd have to contend with a total overhaul of the game, which BHVR certainly doesn't want to do. Beyond that, a fun game from the Survivor's perspective is wildly different from a fun game from the Killer's perspective. Give Survivors too much autonomy and Killers give up. Give Killers too much power and Survivors give up. Even something as simple as bringing solos in line with SWF via implementations like comms are given the ax any time they're suggested because the thought terrifies players.
We have to think of it like this: how do you balance a game where neither side is willing to budge, where the idea of traditional PVP elements in a PVP game is vehemently rejected, and where the developer is unwilling to dedicate enough resources to improve the game beyond tweaks and bug fixes?
-
@darklord_1 said:
i swear to god, something is telling me the survivor's main is DC'ing against the goul so he can get nerfed, it is very sad to see.
Survivors main they don't want the player who bought the DLC to have fun!
I'm P100 Yui and a solo Q play, and i've never DC'ed because this killer is playing blight or nurse or the ghoul…etc.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/94KTNK6DXLU7/999999999999.png
Ironically, go nexting was probably effective only because the stats couldn't differentiate legitimate kills from self-kills. DCs might be discarded entirely from KR balance as far as we know.
-
@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967311#Comment_3967311
Im kinda surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet, but imo a huge oversight was to include slugged survivors as a reason to not fill the bar. Other stuff I'd be hesitant on changing, but currently if a survivor is downed near the hook, they have to start crawling away for their teammate to get AFC progress.
The game has extremely strange behavior for hooked and slugged Survivors for sure. Going on a bit of a tangent, but I have no idea why Stake Out doesn't charge in those states but you can still get hit with Starstruck.
@Crowman said:
16m is already pretty big and BHVR has said the intent was to combat facecamping which is where the killer is standing right next to the hook.
The area doesn't need to be bigger. Survivors just need to stop expecting the game to hand them free unhooks.
The free argument makes no sense so I'm going to gloss over that. What I don't understand is why the bait and switch from "camping" to "face camping" happened. They removed healthy hook grabs right before that, which had a far greater impact than AFC. I'm not exactly mad about it because it does offer some autonomy to the hooked Survivor, but it's so easily negated that it's not even worth mentioning in most cases.
@cesspoolechochamber said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967270#Comment_3967270
This is insanity... why do you want to punish someone for not wanting to play a game with you the way you want? Why cant they play the game the way they want to? I don't want to be tunneled, I dont want to be camped and I certainly don't want to be slugged out. There was a post a couple months ago from a killer main complaining survivors who abandoned the match didn't technically show they lost. This is how petty some of you are. You care more about making other people miserable then actually enjoying the game for what is. Good example people who care about win streaks. No other game in the world allows people who play to get hundreds upon hundreds of wins (3ks). And you know why that doesn't happen because people to keep playing games they cant a chance at fairly
In my opinion, DBD is just not the sort of game where harsh penalties work. There's this clash where BHVR has a history of making strange or unhealthy changes to the game and having an arrogant attitude about (which they are far less abrasive these days, I do admit) and the community takes things way too seriously. So you get things like giving up being a natural outcome to a game held together by shoestring and gum, the community treating that as a cardinal sin and getting extremely angry about it, and then BHVR slapping a fix together that actually starts banning everybody to the point where it has to be undone. And now the community is waxing nostalgic over how it was a good idea because evil deserves to be punished.
I really don't understand it.
-
There need to be more kickbacks for Survivors that lose autonomy during the trial. Being on the receiving end of camping/tunneling/slugging is no fun and almost every asymm I've seen handles this better than DBD.
Slugging is absolutely on the rise lately and many trials feel like you're just waiting to surrender. It doesn't necessarily have to be faster healing, but if there was more we could do for ourselves while downed that doesn't rely on perks or is so weak/convoluted that it's not worth using, it would inspire more hope during the trial and cause players to think twice about throwing in the towel.
-
@hermitkermit said:
I'm sure that if killrates begin to suffer for any killer, M1 or not, adjustments and buffs will be made as they have been for quite a few killers for awhile now. But everyone's idea of a "rework/buff" is also very different. Some people only consider mobility a worthwhile buff, others lethality, or full stealth etc. There's also the case of the killers identity being massively changed for the sake of a rework too. I mean, Freddy just got a rework not too long ago, but many are still not too happy with it, so reworks are quite a tricky thing to pull off especially when eveyrone has their own idea of what a rework *should* be.
I personally think we have enough maps in the game now that instead of limiting or trying to rework killers, that the maps are tied to certain killers depending on their mobility and strengths/counters. I don't believe that most of the roster of m1 killers would struggle if the maps were an appropriate size for their distance (and I believe the stats reflect this as well). Maps have a huge impact even with certain killer powers that are restricted/counter relient. Like if Blight gets put on Lerry's, that puts him at a significant disadvantage. Or if Trickster is put on Coldwind, where counterplay against him is heavily relient on RNG with having tall structures. I think maps could be the key to good balance, both for killer quality of life and survivors. Put the hunter in the right biome you know? A cheetah isn't gonna be as lethal in the mountains as it is in the savannah, but that doesn't mean the cheetah isn't strong.
This isn't a bad idea at all. It could even be simplified so that each realm has 3 distances that are altered depending on who's playing.
-
@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967305#Comment_3967305
You do realize I am not at all arguing about a quick teabag at a pallet, right? Nobody is harmed by that. I am STRICTLY talking about in game taunting that then spirals into things like stalking, slurs, and actual suggestion that the player it's aimed at end their life. You know, things any sane human would see as unacceptable beyond the pale behavior. I have been arguing the negative effects of that this whole time and you are still doubling down on the idea that somehow, demonstrable abuse isn't "real abuse" because… why? Nobody gets physically hurt? You do know that abuse isn't just physical right?
At this point I am forced to assume you yourself are either an abuser, or an abuser sympathizer. I have provided evidence and you STILL don't care. In fact you keep doubling down insisting it's "Killer mains being emotional over ego".
Dude. Dude. Look at what you're saying here, you're literally defending people stalking others, spewing hate speech, and driving others to suicide over how they played in a video game. You do understand you're defending some absolutely awful stuff here, right? Is it somehow worse when Killers do it to Survivors than if Survivors do it to Killers? It would seem so judging by how you keep doubling down on this idea that harassment is "just a silly bit of gamer banter" that "only wounds egos".Killers are played by human beings. All Killer players are not narcissistic ego robots just because you have had bad experiences with a few, any more than all Survivor players are little gremlins who want to hurt others. And NO players in ANY game ever deserve to be harassed simply for playing a video game, I don't care what tactics they use or how hard they win or lose.
This is a truly disturbing position you're take about human beings. TRULY disturbing and troubling. If you said this about anyone else or any other group, you'd be rightfully shunned for it, but because it's the antagonist role in a video game somehow it's okay? Are you hearing yourself right now?
Your points do not stand, because they're abhorrent points that defend harassment online, the effects of which I have demonstrated with evidence multiple times over. Your first point paints all Killer players as emotionally immature and therefore acceptable targets, your second fails to understand the basic limit between what is "too far" in general - forget what it means for a given person, some things are always TOO FAR - and your third doesn't take into account how the harassment can occur outside of the game, in a place where BHVR can do nothing about it. And your fourth is just another particularly callous Us versus Them trying in vain to gin up sympathy for your argument by strawmanning Killer players as a whole as "egotistical narcissists" who just wanna hurt "poor widdle Survivor Mains" all the time instead of human beings playing a friggin' video game to have a good time.
You can't be convinced and aren't arguing in good faith. I'm glad you have the privilege in life to never have to have experienced hatred online over your gender, race, ability, or anything else. I'm happy you're so privileged you have never had a mental illness, disability, or any other sort of thing you can't control occur in your life. That isn't most people.
I'm leaving this argument before I actually get angry, because everything you're saying is so incredibly gross in how it defends actual online harassment, it's starting to raise my blood pressure.
Absolutely shame on you.
If you wanna blow it up way beyond the scope of the argument, bring in things that haven't happened with DBD, and then get mad at yourself then be my guest.
-
I think BHVR caught wind of it with Jane because they didn't introduce trial Survivors again until Chaos Shuffle where it's impossible to do. But they're back now so if it works, then I assume they're cool with it. It makes sense since any perks, items, or cosmetics you get for them stay on them, so achievements/trophies should too.
-
It has to be a scaling difficulty system or something akin to it. Tunneling is not as reactive as it's presented to be and incentives are negligible (and sometimes buff slugging/camping instead). You can't realistically remove tunneling and it would be unfair to do so anyway. But what you can do is make it so that if it's used early enough in a trial, it is so impotent that it isn't worth the time or effort to do at all. Then you watch players adapt and see how it goes.
-
@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967264#Comment_3967264
Oh, would you like the effects on adults?
Here you go. It's a video about how people of color experience a lot more harassment in gaming online. These are adult people experiencing this.
Here's a video on how one in ten female adult gamers feel suicidal over online abuse in video games.
Here's a study by ADL about how 80% of adult gamers have experienced some form of online harassment in gaming, and the effects of it.
Here's an article showing some interesting facts about the kinds of minority gamers targeted in online games by this kind of harassment.
And oh look - here's a PubMed article that comes from actual psychologists discussing the effects of hateful and abusive online harassment in gaming, and why that's an issue.
Again, I could uncover MORE articles, videos, and research on how harassment in online gaming is a form of abuse and often includes hate speech too. Still convinced it's just a problem for children?
You can keep going, but my points stand.
- Killers present a disproportional amount of emotional arguments about the game, despite the reach or severity of said arguments.
- It is up to the individual player to determine when something in a game is too much for them to handle, especially as adults.
- DBD utilizes a host of features to prevent negative communication, including the ability to shut down communication and to privatize one's identity entirely.
And finally
- Nothing will ever be enough to satiate the wounded egos of said players.
-
@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967265#Comment_3967265
I had one survivor who had Asian characters for their name so I think at least some of these are VPN people.
There are lots and lots of Chinese players in the game that use VPNs to play on western servers. They make up the majority of AFK Doctors in my experience.
-
A casual mode would never be perfect, but it could be balanced in a way that makes it unattractive to sweaty players. Part of that would be incorporating a beefed up mode with a true ranking system alongside it. Another would be introducing a stronger scaling difficulty than what we've seen in 2v8 to the casual mode to prevent steamrolls. Better matchmaking might also help, although given how bottlenecked the queues are lately, Idk that we have the capacity for that.
-
@thrawn3054 said:
Match making (like always) has been a mess. I've also noticed I'm getting alot of survivors with high ping. Not sure if I've been getting people from the wrong servers or what is going on.
I've randomly been getting high ping despite having no issues on my end. I'm sure Survivors are getting shuffled off to random servers to meet demand.
-
@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967062#Comment_3967062
Simple: If Killers feel the game is unfair enough Survivors can bully them, that would suggest a game balance issue right?
Also, when things like THIS death of a child and THIS study about how online harassment in gaming affects people are a thing, I'd say it's definitely dire enough for BHVR to do something about it in their game.I could list you more resources about this. But we'd literally be here all day. Basic psychology and multiple studies say you are wrong - the brain views this behavior as abuse and as painful, this behavior is abusive, and this behavior has a real effect on peoples' wellbeing. And it usually strikes minority groups, young people, and already vulnerable people the hardest.
It's NOT just "gamertalk" or "friendly bashing" when someone calls you slurs or threatens to harm you. It's 100% NOT just silly banter when you don't know what someone may have been through, and no. The solution is not "just don't play PvP games." The solution is coming down hard on it and treating it like the abusive behavior it is. Abusive behavior should never be tolerated towards anyone, anywhere, ever. As a victim of sustained and vicious online harassment myself that nearly led to my own suicide attempt when I was 16 years old, I can and will die on this hill.
This sort of behavior has a real, tangible, serious effect on people. People have been harassed to suicide in online games. People have been given real mental disorders such as PTSD and anxiety disorder over harassment in online games. Occasionally, harassment online has spilled over into physical aggression in the real world including murders outside of games.
It's for the good of everyone overall mentally and physically if BHVR takes it seriously.
Those links are about the effects on children. Like I said before, we're adults with personal autonomy and the likelihood of it creating anything new is low. It might exacerbate issues, but that's not something that is anyone else's responsibility. You have multiple ways of opting out of these situations without even leaving the game. There's no voice chat and you can prevent players from communicating with you over text. There's even an anonymous mode. So again, I fail to see how it's abuse or what could be done that isn't already being done.
At some point we have to come back down to Earth and remember that bagging at the gates and smack talk in endgame chat is what spawned this conversation. Equating that to extremely abusive behavior, which is being implied if we're pulling real world physical harm to one's self or others into the equation, is more than a little wild. In my opinion.
-
@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967113#Comment_3967113
Is that really possible?
It was with Jane. I don't care enough to try this round though.
-
You might still be able to adept with trial Survivors too.
-
@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967104#Comment_3967104
Depends on when, I'd say.
While I would really like a classic mode, depending on which version you choose for it there is a lot of content that would be unavailable. Maybe it should be like Overwatch Classic, revisiting some of the most famous periods in the game's history.
That's a good point too. Granted they're both pipe dreams that will likely never happen, but that's always been half of the fun of DBD—thinking of ways to make it better lmao