UnicornMedal
UnicornMedal
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Having the notification is unhealthy for the game if they're really truly concerned about fairness. Ideally there would be more to protect the unhooked Survivor as well, which is the main issue with it. When implemented too early (as is usually the case), the Killer is able to turn a losing trial into a 2 - 4k with minimal effort UNLESS they're greatly outmatched.
As it stands, the odds of any of that changing are slim. But if Survivor had more catch ups of their own, it would be helpful in balancing the scales a bit.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
That would be so neat. However…
"These walkers..dont want to eat us?"
This line here wouldn't be true. Those zombies do actually eat people lol
I was REALLY hoping the zombies would act more like they do with Jill in Marvel vs Capcom 2. It'd be like a moving bear trap mechanic while they eat you and you "button mash" them off. You can imagine my disappointment when they just ended up being a wandering slowdown.
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I don't like asymmetrical horror games. I've played better in the genre for sure, but none of them make an impact because even when the game is great, the genre isn't very fulfilling. I don't typically have fun playing DBD at all like I did once upon a time. The game has always been designed either intentionally or unintentionally to be one of the most frustrating gaming experiences out there. And sure the devs are better around us than they have been historically and I do acknowledge that, but years of being talked down to and ignored and treated adversarially has left a dark cloud over the community that may always be there. I never feel like I'm being told the truth and so much of what happens has to be inferred from a one-sided perspective.
So why do I stay? I'm not really sure. It's a simple enough game loop, regardless of how good it is or not. I'm still tied to characters like David that I know don't exist anywhere else. There's always that hope that the game will be better too, which I personally believe is levied against us, but is still there all the same. I guess it helps too that I have a pretty positive outlook on life and am not an unhappy person, so I have the room to dedicate something like DBD which I believe is a genuinely unhealthy experience for many. I don't think it's the worst thing ever to have an outlet for rage and negativity.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3974535#Comment_3974535
It likely has to do with data collection. If killer d/cing counts as an escape, then Kill Rates can be deflated by d/cs.
I agree. That's why it'd make more sense to change Adept to trigger from DCs as well instead of changing whether DCs = kills/escapes, but I'm not sure how much they'd be willing to do that now with the console achievements in mind. I wouldn't think it'd be too complex since the achievement itself is still the same, but you never know.
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@An34syT4rg3t said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3969525#Comment_3969525
I'm commenting from the future! It did not get fixed in TWD patch.
Ye, I checked first thing. The CM told me it's on the horizon though at least.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3974465#Comment_3974465
Are you saying that Go Next should be removed, so that survivors have the option to ragequit if one of their teammates ragequits?
Should or shouldn't? Ultimately my stance is that going next was never healthy for the game but it offered a sense of autonomy that's required for a game like DBD. Reworking DCs is the better course of action.
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It'd be fun, I agree.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3974392#Comment_3974392
Sure, sure. Killer thinking it was ok to quit once they felt the game was unwinnable has nothing to do with this.
It doesn't. At least not for me. On the contrary, people tend to play the sweatiest when going for adepts so it sort of benefits everyone if they can get through it faster.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3974394#Comment_3974394
Because innocent players are punished when a survivor ragequits.
The Go Next system lowers ragequitting, which lowers the number of innocent survivors that are punished by a teammate ragequitting.
Therefore, Go Next being in the game, results in less innocent survivors being punished overall.
That's gotta be intentionally obtuse. At least with go next, you had the ability to leave the trial as well. Being locked out of the queue entirely through no fault of your own isn't even the same issue.
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@Mr_K said:
Yet, people want DCs to go unpunished.
Apples and oranges. You don't have to punish anyone for DCs to still count toward Adepts.
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I could be wrong, but I feel like the new DC penalties are likely to condition players against doing it even when they're free.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972293#Comment_3972293
Oh, you know how it is.
'Survivors banned for being too UP, killers most affected.'
It's really the strangest thing. It's across every single platform the game is discussed as well. It's why I say that Killers are usually the ones to make the most emotional arguments. Even when you talk about how bad it feels to be on the receiving end of camping/tunneling/slugging, you're met with "well how am I SUPPOSED TO FEEL?".
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@DestroyerBG said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3971344#Comment_3971344
Alrighty then chief. I will just make sure to do all 4 other generators that have to be done alone while my team is either dying instantly to the killer or leads the killer to me. You are absolutely right. It is skill issue on the part of everyone who does not want to have teammates that make dumb decisions.
I've seen both sides complain about it, but I don't understand why Survivors would be that upset over their teammates going next. With good game sense, you can understand when a trial is unrecoverable and when it's time to cut your losses. They also know how common it is for Killer to shut the entire trial down and also how obvious it is when you and your teammates have bad synergy like you said.
I just don't really buy that an argument made defending camping/tunneling/slugging and saying that Survivor only gives up on first down in trials they can win is genuinely being made for the better of the Survivor role. At best, it's trying to find someone to blame for the trial being terrible. At worst, it's wanting more autonomy for Killer and less for Survivor. All the same, it's saying you shouldn't learn patterns in matchmaking and should have hope in hopeless situations.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973865#Comment_3973865
Part of the community is responsible for the devs to suck the fun out of the game
I wouldn't say that. The prevalence of going next dates back to one of their own patches and the source has gone ignored for 3 years. There was even a period of time where their representatives were saying they don't understand why it's happening. That level of erasure only made it more prevalent. Even when it was addressed, the patch made it clear that it wasn't out of concern for the health of the game. It was more because other players were annoyed by it.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973576#Comment_3973576
They have a consultancy program too, where they pay a group of players to test and advise on new killers and changes etc. Hens is part of it, and I know a bunch of other streamers are too. Dowsey used to be a paid consultant until he quit the game. Not sure how much say they actually have though in the final product, but just wanted to point out that they definitely have people who play the game alot and understand it better than most to advise them.
It's the only explanation for all of it. No way there's that many people that don't know the game. All it takes is one entity in the chain of command to shut it all down. But it's all just speculation on my part, I wasn't there.
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I guess we'll get it once they're caught up. Which will be never. 😅
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@NekoGamerX said:
like to know why Fallen Refuge has a achievement for it and Freddy Fazbear's Pizza doesn't.
I played the FNAF map for the first time yesterday and totally got the achievement that doesn't exist. So in my mind, I have it lmao
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@Rudjohns said:
If survivors can't unhook themselves anymore, whats the point of this system?
I dont get it
It's their attempt to micromanage play so that you never bypass the system to give up. Essentially they only want you to give up via DC and for that DC to be a harsh penalty. Why a game like DBD warrants such harsh, borderline invasive means to address the problem is anyone's guess. All I know is that this attitude has been prevalent since MMR and their desire to make the game more comp.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973810#Comment_3973810
I believe I did see that comment. I haven't really noticed a difference either. I still get days where I die in every single match except the last one (which is typically a hatch escape). And when I finally escape a match against a Killer who just turns out to have a single Tier 1 perk, I actually feel bad.
Definitely. I played 20 trials yesterday and escaped 8 of them, which is about the 40% they're aiming for. But most of them were really terrible losses all in a row. Some of the wins were against Killers using one aggressive strat where matchmaking paired me with competent teammates while others were against Killers that either went easy on us or were still learning.
I don't love being the one that steamrolls when the Killer isn't being a jerk either, but at this point it feels nice just to power the gates and leave every now and then. Back when the game was a little more relaxed, I had no issue letting the Killer catch up or kill me at the end.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973800#Comment_3973800
There's just something with the Chucky players I get paired with. Thet have zero chill. At least for every toxic Ghostface there's a chill or funny one. Chucky's are like universally awful.
My last batch of survivor matches were surreal. I had minimal tunneling and slugging, several humble losers who opened the gates for us, a couple instances of mercy, and a nice red-light-green-light. Don't know what was going in.
They are super aggressive about it for sure.
Lmao it might be the players that opted out for the event coming back.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973785#Comment_3973785
Yes…and my belief is that these steamrolls (or even the potential for steamrolls) is the biggest factor in Survivors giving up in the first place. Even the ones who are downed and hooked within sixty seconds are aware that this could result in a steamroll, thus they give up.
Exactly. I said it in another thread, but the prevention hasn't affected the quality of my trials. We still wipe incredibly fast and we still win primarily against friendly Killers or baby Killers. All we do is lose in slow motion 60% of the time.
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I'm still wondering why we even add new Killers to 2v8 if none of them have been added to custom matches.
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@cogsturning said:
Trickster. I think his design is fine and I really like some of his cosmetics but God, I hate him. The knife spamming is so obnoxious. There's nothing remotely intimidating or frightening about him. He's just straightbup annoying.
Legion. Same reason. The endless slash-and-run is annoying. I dont want to play against annoying killers. Even when we escape I still have a bad time.
Chucky. Not so much because of the killer himself but because of the people who play as him. I've been tunneled and slugged by more Chuckys than anyone. I don't think I've come across any chill Chuckys, or merciful ones. Instead I've had some NOED fake outs. They seem to think they actually need to embody the character in order to play as him.
I'd single out Chucky but I very rarely go against any new Killers that don't camp/tunnel/slug excessively. And by "new", I mean ever since around Knight's release and any newer skins for older characters like the Junji Ito or RE collabs.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973715#Comment_3973715
Because people on these forums kept telling us that if BHVR removed self-unhooks, that survivors would find other ways to bypass the DC penalties.
Actually not a bad theory. TERRIBLE idea, naturally. But I could see the logic and how they'd come to that conclusion.
@HuskyDogLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973051#Comment_3973051
It can work, but it needs to be cleverly sophisticated. Instead of checking against match length, it needs to check against multiple different points of data.
- Did the survivor stand still after chase started?
- Did the survivor throw pallets while not near or in chase with the killer?
- Did the survivor run directly at the killer on purpose for X seconds and then take an injury?
- Did the survivor attempt to run away after being injured?
- Did the survivor run directly to a hook during chase and then stop moving?
- Did the survivor fail multiple skill checks while on hook while there was more than one other survivor alive?
- Did the survivor contribute nothing for an extended period of time?
- Did the survivor spam certain actions, like jumping over a window or pallet for an extended period of time?
- Did the survivor run to and jump inside of a locker during chase and there was no reason to do so? Examples of reason to do so:- Tombstone Myers
- Has decisive strike
- Has head on
- Killer was within 5 meters (trying to bait/avoid a swing)
- Killer was Bubba swinging chainsaw
- Killer was Billy in chainsaw sprint.
- Killer was Nurse and blinking.
- Killer was Blight during sprint.
Finally, every action that the system deems as being a "throwing the game" action, it gives them throw points. If you get too many throw points, then you get flagged for suspicions behavior and you would see the warning. If it keeps happening, then they get a DC penalty. Throw Points could also be reduced by, getting chased and doing gens (by playing the game normally).
Using a system like this would ensure that survivors who are quickly tunneled out by the killer would more than likely not get flagged for suspicious behavior as they wouldn't have done enough actions to trigger getting flagged. You'd have to carefully balance the throw points to make this work though.
I'm not sure how it currently works, but if it's only checking how long the survivor stayed alive… that's not going to work.Theoretically that could work. Even my idea of what would massively improve the game, a scaling difficulty system, would require that level of detail to be successful. But I also think BHVR is biting off way more than they can chew here. They don't allocate enough resources to ensuring a system like this would be able to succeed and honestly is so much wasted time and effort devoted to a system that prevents giving up while the massive imbalance to the game that causes steamrolls to be so common goes nearly unaddressed.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973470#Comment_3973470
But *why?* Why is this system necessary? The removal of self-unhook was effective in preventing the go-next, so there's no reason to add anything else.
He can't answer that. My guess is that it was affecting kill rates and/or was seen as enough of a threat to matchmaking that BHVR went scorched earth as they often do. It's clear to all of us that it's overdone, but which ever entity greenlights the changes that go live very seldom comprehends the game the same way we do.
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Yesterday mine started out being max on Survivor and then shifted to Killer for the rest of the day.
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@Pulsar said:
Also they turned Go Next Punishment back on, or as we like to say, "Got tunneled? Here's a ban"
Doubling-down on a universally hated system is peak BHVR (get it).
The pipeline from making DCs healthier for the game to doing everything in their power to punish them including when you don't DC at all is delicious.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
With this combined with the fact somebody elsewhere on the forums saying the "go next" prevention system is back without fixing the tunneling bug, the Clown could potentially be used as the ultimate machine in causing many unwarranted penalties to survivors.
Putting something back in without changing the bug is absolutely ridiculous. I don't feel BHVR tested half the stuff. It's disappointing.
My theory is that they do test things, that the devs probably take notes and point out the issues, but that they're pushed to get new content out anyway. The tagline of "new feature added" in the patch notes is likely more important than whether they work or not.
Unless I'm totally wrong and someone can point that out to me.
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They're afraid that coordinated Survivors are gonna body them, when in reality most of the player base is going to use them at bad times or not at all.
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I ground out the 20 trials in one day and it was miserable, putting it mildly. I'm genuinely shocked I managed to escape 8 times.
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I've only really been playing as Rick and I don't mind his. They're not great, pretty weak actually, but I don't know that they're bad.
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I wanna say they changed it to get better stats, like maybe the flags were giving them bad readings or something. But I don't see why DCs shouldn't count toward Adepts since they happen beyond your control.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972801#Comment_3972801
The huntress and tricker are both very good proxycampers espicialy in places like hill hooks or basement they left little room to save and can force kills or second state with ease (trickster can destroy multiple survivors he is just something like huntress+bubba hybrid he isnt fast but with main event saving against him is hard).
The wraith and ghostface arent that hot maybe you getting people who play them same way camping and tunneling but wraith is better at this ghostface lacks mobility and can only 99 to down you later (counter it by just hiding or force him to m1 you), both of them are joke without proper builds.
Trickster is very map dependent too. I don't like playing against him, but his gameplay isn't any more or less worse than most of the roster. I just don't like how he's the amalgamation of a lot of thirsty media. The stuff you see on YA TikTok lol
It's not their powers that's the issue. It's just the sort of players that are drawn to Ghostface and Wraith. They really love to make everyone miserable at a disproportional rate to other Killers I've gone against.
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@adam1233467 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973081#Comment_3973081
Exactly, I was so excited for the TWD collection, but then I saw Rick and Daryl's hair and I was kind of sad.
Even on higher settings, Rick looks like he's thinning really bad. But I find that kind of cute to be honest. 😭
@adam1233467 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973065#Comment_3973065
The worst part is that this only started happening RECENTLY. It wasn't like this before. BHVR knew how to make hair without anti-aliasing. It didn't look transparent or anything. It looked pretty normal. I don't know what happened within the skins team...
I agree but for different reasons. The way they've been designing hair is so anime, almost like what you'd expect to see in Marvel Rivals or Fortnite. Everything is so shapely and has so much body that it looks like a cartoon. Thankfully most characters got decent heads before this wave of new cosmetics, but the game is for sure having a crisis with assets.
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973066#Comment_3973066
Yea i recently read they could make stuff in the parasite eve universe but not use the parasite eve name lol hense parasite eve 3 being called The 3rd birthday. But who knows, I also heard SE just tanked and lost several licenses maybe that was one of them. As for regina as a jill skin, i don't think capcom would want to overlap one of their licenses ontop of another just because they happen to own both, they wont even let you swap cosmetic peices (all linked suits)
They'd still have the PE cast as far as I know since those are all Nomura characters. That's why they were able to use them in The 3rd Birthday, but it was harder to reference the plot that didn't belong to them.
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973064#Comment_3973064
I can't say that my experiences were the same. I'm a purely solo queue player, and before they implemented the go-next prevention, even as simple as harsher penalties for DCing and making you unable to try to go next on hook, my escape rate was around 25%.
Over the course of the anniversary event, it jumped up to 35-40%.
There's also a lot of killers saying the game suddenly got a LOT harder. The primary reason for this is likely that that survivors are actually trying a lot more. Yeah healing perks got buffed, but not enough to make things change that much. The only other possible explanation is that Ghoul suppressed the casual survivor population, leaving just veterans left.
That's fair. My milestone escape rates have evened out to about 40% so far pre and post. It's worth noting however that most losses are miserable and happen early with no hope of getting anywhere, which makes the rate feel much lower than it actually is. Without the challenges to track, I'd assume I was at 25% too.
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Dino Crisis could be possible, but I don't know that it's lucrative enough to attempt. Maybe for a Jill skin. Parasite Eve is tricky just because of the source material. They'd still have the original cast but I'm not sure SE would be keen enough to license it out.
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DBD has strange shaders. It's weird seeing the same models ported to other games because they always look 10x better.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3973047#Comment_3973047
Agreed. I would rather have some people who want to go next and run up to the Killer constantly be unpunished than having people who get tunneled out being punished.
Personally I think the removal of Unhook attempts was already good enough and made it significantly better.
It's only proved what I thought all along. Staying in the trial seldom improves the odds of escape, it just forces players to stay in a lost trial. It's like losing in slow motion.
Judging by the milestone challenges, my escape rate hasn't changed at all from before the go next prevention was added. Likewise, the amount of times we're slugged and have to surrender is more than ironic. Realistically, I don't think much would change if things went back to the way they were.
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For what it's worth, I played 20 trials today and most were the worst case scenario and I didn't get any warning. Not saying it's impossible, but I'm not sure it's anything like it was. Still, if the system is active… 😬
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It is better than nothing for steamrolls. Not strong enough to truly counter it but it's a distraction.
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How did you escape?
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Honestly? Until phase 2, pretty good.
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The only way to address slugging is to severely limit its power. We've had 3 years of evidence showing that no nerfs to Survivor prevents camping, tunneling, or slugging. All that changes is which of the three fit best into the current meta.
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Is it across the board? Because I can't progress chase challenges even if I don't see one in play. I could just be dumb and not paying attention to everyone else.
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I've been getting through them too.
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The prison might be too samey, which is an issue that realistic indoor maps face. But it'd be fun to see what they could do. More skins are always a plus too.
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I have a reason for the entire roster but I'll limit it to three lol
Huntress - I've never had a very good reason to dislike her. Just fails the vibe check I guess.
Trickster - I'm just going to be totally honest here—he is a fetish (in my opinion). Skull Merchant falls into this category too, but it's always bothered me more with Trickster.
Wraith+Ghostface - Lumping them together because I dislike them for the same reasons. Hard campers and tunnelers with a real sour attitude in general. It's very rare that they're any fun to go against and that's usually on purpose.
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@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972704#Comment_3972704
To be frank, we're not entitled to anything. The devs are free to remove add-ons if they want. That doesn't mean we deserve free BP. It's just in-game currency. Yet OP is acting like they got duped in a ponzi scheme, and lost their life savings. Calling it a scam is completely overkill.
People should just be grateful they get anything.
That's true that they don't have to give us anything, but it's a good practice to have with your audience. There's very little at stake throwing 100 cells or 1500 shards at us here and there. Considering how long BHVR's reputation has suffered, there's no reason to not do little things to mend that.
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I agree that compensations are still way too low. But at the same time, I'm glad we're finally getting them. I didn't think it'd ever happen, especially after that fiasco with Gabriel's Lunar New Year outfit. So I'm hoping they do more as time goes on.