UnicornMedal
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@ImWinston said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964802#Comment_3964802
- It's like downloading Fortnite (example) for the first time and expecting to immediately get a "victory royale." It's obvious to be outclassed (especially if you're learning, as you say in your comment)... all games PVP work like this. I really don't understand this anxious attitude. If it takes so little to make someone "anxious," perhaps the problem lies in your life in general, not just in video games. When I started DBD (2020), I exclusively played "solo q" survivors... my only hope (at least the first two months) was the killer who granted the hatch, otherwise it was just a long sequence of deaths. So according to this "beginner's anxiety" theory, I should have abandoned DBD, made videos on YT, or come here on the forum to complain🤣
It's the difference in roles. Killer complaints more often have an emotional slant. It's easier to feel humiliated and to take it personally. As Survivor, you expect to lose often enough that it's not quite the same.
Not that I disagree at all though. I think that's how PVP should be. This expectation that you need several hundred hours to understand the game or that you should be carried/handicapped to maintain stats is BS.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/451386/how-to-stop-slugging
unbreakable and boon exponential exists
Calling all No Mither bros
@Deadman7600 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3965133#Comment_3965133
Most killers I know don't just tunnel because they like it so where is your evidence that most tunneling is for no purpose? Most of the time tunnelling is done because the killer doesn't feel safe to pick up or their power doesn't support easy pickups. Thats the reason. Unless you're going against a billy or blight who has never made an attempt to hook, you're just patently wrong.
Also, slugging is used to counter sabo squads too, should we just let them get up all they like. Any idea like this is just a massive buff for swf, and a minor buff for solo which they will rarely get to use because in most cases the killer will hook them.
Everything with the game is anecdotal. In my experience, there are an increase of Killers slugging everyone early on in the trial and/or slugging to prevent hatch. When it's not that, it's slugging to prevent unhooks in scenarios where they aren't losing (i.e. one Survivor dead, two injured, and one on hook). Those are all scenarios where it's not being used as a catchup.
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I've been using Knight. I just fart around with him though.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3965049#Comment_3965049
It would be great have this as an official forum rule (applies to both sides). The “us vs them” stuff like this makes up a vast majority of the toxicity on the forum. All it does is make people feel like they’re doing something wrong simply because they prefer one role or the other. Keeping that stuff off the forum would make this a far more welcoming and productive place to have real discussions.
It's a bad idea. That's how the reddit operates and it's all memes without any meaningful discourse. It'd just alienate players even further and erode communication between BHVR and the players (more than it already is). All you can really do is limit how far it goes. No threats or anything like that.
@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964903#Comment_3964903
Honestly I will take my Killer games being a bit tougher because Survs are staying in rounds and actually trying now over my Survivor games sucking hot garbage because people would go "Ewwwww it's a [Killer I dislike]" and DC or go next on hook first thing.
We do now have forced no self unhooking, meaning someone has to come save you or you need a perk/luck offering for it. That alone does give hooks a little more pressure because two Survs at/on hook means two less Survs on gens.
I don't know that it's having that effect. People will still give up if a trial is bad enough because of the abandon feature. Instead of using hook, you wait for the Killer to down everyone and bounce. It's not as if the other side isn't eager to comply either. So now instead of one person going next, it's everyone going next. I really genuinely think prioritizing making DCs freer and less impactful on the trial was the way to go.
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The issue is that slugging is a catchup mechanic, meaning that sometimes it does have a purpose. It's when it doesn't have a purpose (which I'd argue is the majority of the time) where it's a problem.
Something realistic would be that Survivors would be able to pick themselves up after a certain amount of "charges". Think of it working similarly to green glyphs.
What I'd love to see is that Survivors can always pick themselves up, but they need to do something while they're downed. Some sort of game or mini challenge. Then the more dire the trial becomes, the easier it is to do.
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@Coordi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964718#Comment_3964718
Let's avoid the generalizations and sweeping comments about Killers, those who main them, and BHVR. We do not favor either side when collecting feedback. Our job is to deliver community feedback to the development team, without bias.
It's impossible to avoid, but at the same time I don't think anyone is looking at the mod team and thinking they're skewing things. At the end of the day, it's the head honchos that determine what gets put in the game and what doesn't.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964807#Comment_3964807
So there's a lot to unpack here, but I'll try to speak to as much as I can.
Kill rate is genuinely irrelevant, couldn't be a more worthless stat in this game. The kill rate during prime DH, IW, UB and CoH meta was 48% in a swf
I feel like this is the core problem with why we disagree here, because this meta was before 6.1. your also cherry picking SWF, but actually that doesn't matter anymore.
These are the most recent escape rates, so overall that number has gone up a lot. SWF in particular is now at about a 60% kill rate overall. So yes, balance has changed, and absolutely in the killers favor.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/IL6AEX1PSP22/1000009212.png
And I doubt you'd be saying "kill rates don't matter" if it was flipped and kill rates were around 40% instead of escape rates.
Killer peaked in 6.1.0 strength wise.
Saying killer get buffed every patch is hilarious, 0 of the best killer perks are at their peak strength right now. Clown just got gutted.
If you're only looking at perks, which you seem to be focused on, then yes... The gen kick and 3 gen metas were the strongest we've ever seen in the game. And it was so wildly overpowered that people could hold the game hostage for an hour and win by attrition that way. It was also one of the most completely broken things they've ever had in the game and is a travesty that it took a year for them to address.
I say killer has been buffed every patch, since it's basically true. In the 3 years since 6.1.0, there has been one, maybe 2 patches total that didn't include some form of buff for killers in general, or specific killers, or even just base kit mechanics.
There are people like you that hard focus on just the meta perks, and basically unless they're hard buffing regression then it doesn't matter to you.
But the buffs they've been handing out are specifically and intentionally to increase the kill rates over the years, and it's demonstrably worked. (This is also, I suspect, related to why you don't think kill rates should count, since it hard counters this idea that killer role generally is eating just fine right now). Changes to maps, tiles, weakening pallets, increasing dead zones, and map RNG happen relatively often even though it doesn't reach the patch notes usually unless there's a specific map rework. Base kit hooks respawn, instant regression on kick (twice), and nearly every major patch has had 2-4 killers specifically listed with buffs ranging from QOL improvements to entire IRI add-ons made base kit.
Nurse gets add-ons nerfed, skull merchant killed, blight add-ons are way worse and hug tech removed. Base kit BT is insane, Skull merchant deleted, ghoul is removed from high tier less than a month after release although he is terrible to play against.
Yes, there have been some balance changes, and personally I don't like how they handled SM either. But complaining about them nerfing nurse, who is still S tier, top 2 killers in the game is a weird focus. They announced like 4 years ago that hug tech was a bug, and it took them over two years to fix. That wasn't a surprise at all. Ghoul is still a high tier killer as well, so I'm not sure what you're upset about with this one.
Looking at the three of the top, I'm guessing 5, killers in the entire game and clutching pearls because they had minor changes or even bug fixes that still leave them in the top 5 isn't really making your case for you here.
It might seem like I am a killer main, survivor hater in the way I worded this but that's not the case. I despise how killers play like bots just like how I despised how survivors played like bots up until 6.1.0.
It does because you're so hard focused on regression for killers (and this weird "kill rates don't matter stance"… dying a lot more often certainly matters if you play survivor for any reasonable amount of time and you don't just dismiss that fact.) It's also because, despite you starting in 2021, you're complaining about base kit BT… and you should know exactly why that was a necessary and good change to the game. Especially since 6.1 also brought about the change to endurance where hitting BT off hook literally disables a host of anti-tunnel perks for the killer.
Because IMO, killers played more like bots right after 6.1. Specifically the gen kick and 3 gen metas were PvE gen kick simulator, where killers dropped chase, kicked a gen, hit me, ran away. There was a song about that exact phrase because killers would spend the entire match kicking gens instead of interacting with the survivors (you know, the PvP).
And that "strategy" won games. It won a lot of games, and had the added "bonus" to a lot of killers that it was so broken and non-interactive that it was exceedingly frustrating for survivors. I personally stopped playing survivor for at least a year and a half after a few months of that meta.
Killers have been getting stuff but not what they wanted
Killers have largely gotten what they asked for, but not what they wanted. Generally speaking, killers want to go back to the 6.1 days where they could play like a bot, and win a largely PvE game experience. But pretending like most survivor changes haven't been catered to exactly the killer's demands here is laughable.
prime DH, IW, UB and CoH meta
You pick it out yourself, and choose a meta where perks were largely nerfed by killer request (except UB). DH (twice), DS, IW, CoH, medkits, toolboxes, BNP, MfT, Haddonfield, basically every corn map (not just cowshed), Eyrie, GoJ, even hatch, and I'm certain I'm missing some because it's been 3 years now. Oh, and the recent "just push it live" punish them all "Go Next" system that was grossly overtuned. All by killer demand.
What killers apparently want, however, is gen kick meta back. That's all that matters is regression. Oh, absolutely keep all the buffs to everything else, including core game elements in the meantime, but give back infinite time to win the game by default after an hour. That's a must, apparently.
Blight isn't freddy
This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. What exactly are you trying to say here? Freddy is the most deadly killer in the game currently after the most recent rework. And, I'm sorry, but the "it's a skill issue" argument doesn't hold water, since he's #1 across the board with overall and high MMR.
Pick trapper, pick clown. There are killers who could use some help.
And regarding clown, I'm sorry but this is part 2 of the MfT fallout. Killers complained for 6 months about 3% haste "lOsInG tHeM gAMeS" and the devs nerfed it for them. And now, because that group also convinced the devs that haste was a problem, they're addressing haste overall. Clown is collateral damage to that.
Strangely, now, things like haste stacking and clown bottles (more than 3%) are suddenly "necessary' and reasonable… now that MfT is dead. Which, I forgot to add, that while MfT was nerfed by demand, in the same breath the haste stacking changes were pulled back also by killer demand. Again, this is killers getting what they ask for but not what they wanted (which, in this case, is haste and haste stacking for the killer, but not for survivors).
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964807#Comment_3964807
Oh I missed one point I usually address:
Survivors have been quitting for years
Yup. Petty people have always existed, and quit for whatever reason.
The question is "why did it get worse?" Why did it go from occasionally to a "go next epidemic". People have not become more petty over time.
The reasons are balance related. When survivors lose hope that the game is winnable early on then the natural reaction is to try again, literally: better luck next match.
Getting tunneled out first, or even just having your teammate get tunneled out early means a lost game, go next. When those issues aren't addressed, then people give up. And with the buffs I was taking about, excessive tunneling, camping, and even slugging have gotten easier also.
It's why the "anti go next" and "crow updates" should've been after phase 2. Let's fix some of the reasons that games feel hopeless and then see what needs tweaking.
Instead, the devs listened to the loudest voices screaming "punish them" and just shoved out a half baked, not at all thought through, mechanic that lost them a metric ton of new players with the fnaf release.
Nailed it. Although I will say that Clown being nerfed because of haste doesn't entirely fit BHVR's MO. They make lots of bad changes because of their faulty "consistency" logic, but it rarely applies to both sides. Aura reveals need to be limited on Survivor, not Killer; endgame perks/mechanics need to be limited on Survivor, not Killer; etc. Unless they've shifted their approach, Clown either caught a stray or he was nerfed as a part of them buffing Survivor haste recently.
Also with go next, a surprising amount of Survivors were begging for it too. It was really tone deaf to me that they couldn't understand why players were fatigued or why they deemed a trial unwinnable, while they themselves were playing Survivor. My only guess is that they weren't as invested in the role overall so they didn't really see it.
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Honestly almost every single Survivor perk after the first RE chapter. Hillbilly's perks are unhealthy as well, aside from OG BBQ.
I'm gonna go to bat for No Mither too and say that it's a great addition to a stealth build. Great for powering through gens, heals, and no one ever complains when it's in play against a slugging Killer. Just saying. 😎
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I agree about the window blocker, but the way the mechanic works is so awkward that it's easy to spawn a pallet or stealth instead. It requires really precise timing in a chase depending on where you do it. And of course very map/Killer dependent.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964498#Comment_3964498
I can’t even tell if they’re done with Phase 1 yet. We have a hiding prevention system, that I haven’t seen reveal anyone since the nerfs. And we have a Go Next prevention where half of it was turned off, and we have zero communication if it’s being fixed, or if it’s off forever.
Like, is BHVR happy with what they’ve done on these mechanics? Why have we literally had zero communication on this? Are we starting phase 2 even though phase 1 is arguably unfinished?
I think the answer is somewhere between anti-face camp and the Twins rework. Chances are what we have is what we're left with.
@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964498#Comment_3964498
Yeah I myself hold back a lot when playing killer so that I don't completely stomp most survivors. Especially in the event I have to be careful.
As soon as I wrote that reply to you my team was slugged 3 times a row at least we got few gens done though. But damn I can't blame if survivors don't want to use cakes especially after event as their bp gains are minimal.
But maybe killers like me keep them continuing who show some mercy.
That was the heart of go next. Giving up unfair/lost trials and moving on to hopefully find something better. It's not the end of the world if we can't do it, but it's just going to be replaced with point farming that doesn't advance the trial at all. That's why I suggest bringing a build that lets you do anything aside from gens in this meta unless you want very minimal returns.
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It's entitlement. When you play the power role, you feel entitled to exerting that power. And when enough stands in the way of you doing that, it's considered unplayable.
Certain things are fair though. We all know the game easily turns into a frustrating, unfun experience and that balancing is inconsistent at best. That can make Killer stressful and demoralizing to play, but that doesn't necessarily makes it harder. It means that wins don't feel like wins.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
They do understand and they don't care about it at best and at worst are actively making malicious changes against it.
They purposefully want to reduce killer's decision making in macro as much as possible, just like they want to rob survivor's agency in chase as much as possible.
As long as they keep changing the game like that, the killer role will just further become the role that's extremely good at stomping bad / uncoordinated players and that's going to get stomped just as badly by good / coordinated players. the game will just turn more into blight by daylight as the only thing that would matter is, as you put it, raw chase power.
find guy, chase them down cuz you cant play strategically, hook them cuz you cant play strategically, ######### off to do the same to another guy because you can't play strategically. do it every time until game over. ggs
If devs cared about macroplay, they wouldve given killers viable alternatives instead of directly and indirectly nerfings available macroplay options instead of just introducing another nerf to skill expression and giving killers compensation in form of more gentime to chase survivors or another uncounterable chase power that you need to pay money for or another nerf to maps and tiles.
What's wild too is that you can tell that once upon a time, they were concerned with this. But you nailed all of their recent changes. Between the changes to balancing, the rapid fire chapters, and the shift in cosmetics to more cutesy cosplay type looks tells me that they're in the dopamine phase. They're trying to get players hooked.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964105#Comment_3964105
I dont know why you keep typing up a bunch of irrelevant stuff that has nothing to do with this discussion.
Nothing here has anything to do with tbagging at the exit gates (the contents of this thread).
The killer is 100% in control of making it continue or stop thats not an opinion either. (power role)https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964108#Comment_3964108
Thats not why the system was created at all. The developer patch notes, with specific notations in italics, when it was released, tell you why it was implemented.
And it was not "the option to leave because you dont like it and you dont want to play it"
This is a completely false statement saying this, and I think its best if we end the discussion here.To be perfectly fair, BHVR isn't that consistent with their statements. They flip flop often enough for us not to limit the discussion based on one patch note.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964099#Comment_3964099
It seems to me that it was very easy to accurately gauge if the anti-slugging mechanic was fair for Chaos Shuffle, since BHVR decided to cancel the entire event instead of implement it.
I don't know that I buy that. I think what's more likely is that with these latest patches flopping so hard, they're a bit hesitant about starting phase 2. So they extended the current event, which was already affected by those patches and is the right call, and shelved phase 2 even longer to maybe gain a bit more confidence with it. I don't know that it will ultimately matter since phase 1 was stalled as well, but you know.
@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964099#Comment_3964099
Yeah at least most killers don't slug in my games but that happens still too often. I just think "chill killer" no need to win 5 gens left
I wasn't seeing it for a little bit but now I am again. And it makes sense, really. Play the right regression build with a strong enough Killer and get the trial over with as quickly as possible. There's very little standing in the way of that. It's just poison to the game is all and BHVR should know better with 3 years of data on this trajectory.
@zumer said:
I have said here on the forum many times that there needs to be a bonus to survivors actions for each survivor killed. This would also solve the tunneling and camping problem. The game needs to be balanced 1v4 then 1v3 then 1v2 then 1v1.
It might be a little strong, but I'd like to see the gen counter go down when each Survivor dies. The trial bottle necking is so common that there needs to be something to get it moving aside from forfeiting.
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I'm not against it. The game has a really terrible habit of not respecting the players' time. Yes, there's a lot more you can do as the Killer about the gates than Survivor can about being slugged, but we all know when a trial is over. No reason to to stick around when a bot can take over just as easily.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3962908#Comment_3962908
I would be down for that! Truly. However, it needs to go both ways. If they popped 3 gens and I only have 1 hook. I want a catch up mechanic. Gen speeds get reduced drastically.
2v8 has implemented scaling difficulty so the code is there. The only issue is that it would be easy to artificially inflate or deflate numbers due to how many variables there are in the game. Also that 2v8's version of it is almost negligible. If it were beefed up and closely monitored, it could potentially replace slowdowns and catchups (second chance perks and camping/tunneling/slugging).
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963701#Comment_3963701
BHVR wanted to release an anti-slugging mechanic for Chaos Shuffle, that was so awful for the killer, that the entire event got cancelled.
It really feels like BHVR isn't trying to create something that is fair for killers, and instead is just trying to see what they can get away with. Because we've also had the "infinite unbreakable" PTB, that BHVR honestly thought would be fair for killers.
It'll be next to impossible to accurately gauge what's fair as long as the trials steamroll as easily as they do. Regardless, if Killer has catchup mechanics that last all trial long, offer very little resistance (there is counterplay, but it's easily overpowered), and can be used without restraint across all characters, there HAS to be something of equal ease and power for Survivor. SWF is too unrealistic.
@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963017#Comment_3963017
Expect if we but catch up mechanic it would benefit greatly more survivors. I win most games 3-4 gens left if I want. I don't tunnel or camp and usually let someone at least escape. Now if they put catch up mechanic maybe I get some challenge.
Most my survivors matches in soloQ go about same maybe we get few more gens as most killer players are not good.
My solo trials are the same. I can maintain a 40%-ish streak if I play during a specific window at the start of events. Otherwise, it's a lot of trials where Killer gains an early advantage, we get a few gens done, and then they start slugging until we're all down. Even when we (rarely) open the gates, it's the same story. Escapes only happen if the Killer is sorely mismatched or if they let us win.
I'm 3k hours but still fairly casual. I can't imagine my experience is that different from the majority.
@Chiky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963473#Comment_3963473
yes, that:s the issue with a game that is rotten at its core, no matter what you try to fix, it will never work
There's a lot that could make the game a lot more enjoyable and fair, but if asymmetrical games have shown anything, it's that Killers won't queue up if they can't win with ease. It's a problem for the genre overall.
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DBD can't survive on its own. It's basically a vehicle to buy crossovers, much like Fortnite.
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@mecca said:
It's very simple, survivor is supposed to lose. The game has a lot of situations like this where killer wins automatically. It's a game about one person having a default winning advantage.
This too. If Survivors were meant to have a comeback, their endgame wouldn't be so heavily nerfed and second chance perks wouldn't be so conditional.
@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963618#Comment_3963618
I have the same experience. I go out of my way to have the killer find me first, hoping they will just kill me and move on, hoping they’re glad I didn’t make them play hide and seek as so many really dislike it, only to end up slugged while they go find the other survivor.
In my experience, they get upset when players give up. They'll slug everyone early on and then get upset if you don't pick everyone up or work on gens. But realistically, why would anyone want to engage from that point forward?
My suggestion is to run an anti-slug objective build. When the trial is dead, run around and do totems and open chests. If you get slugged, pick yourself up and do it again. Wait for everyone to go down and then surrender.
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@PleaseRewind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963448#Comment_3963448
That’s what others and myself said we do. Let’s be real unless the killer shows mercy, goes afk or is completely clueless those 3 remaining gens are not getting done.
When Killer tries, that 40% escape rate easily drops down to 10% or below. The bulk of that is gen regression and early camping/tunneling. Any time the Survivors get a foothold, just resort to slugging and patrolling the remaining gens.
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963489#Comment_3963489
The forum comments around anti-slugging very often suggested giving survivors a basekit unbreakable, that can activate even when the survivors forced the killer to slug.
Look at how they handled anti-camping. I think we'll be fine.
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It still happens at times even though it shouldn't. I've had it happen on and off.
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@Rudjohns said:
I have been saying this many times
The game should be designed and balanced around 2k
Once 2 survivors are dead at 5 to 2 gens, the remaining 2 are auto sacrificed
It would fit the PVE direction the game has gone.
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Playing more of the event, I'm really feeling the loss of go next. Every trial is a steamroll and there's not much you can do about it. It's a big waste of time, especially with the escape 2 trials goal.
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It's a valid question. If the Killer camps/tunnels/slugs early on, especially if someone dies, there's not much that can be done. But giving up is also not really allowed anymore. So you just have to pretend you're a bot.
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At this point, if solo is more bearable then that's all I care about.
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Ax feels like overkill to play against, but overall just OK. His issues are more to do with the base game.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961032#Comment_3961032
Playing a game is not toxic, full stop. You can't tell other people how to play the game that they pay for. If you don't like it, you need to be complaining to the developers, not the players.
100%. Far too often holding BHVR accountable translates to bashing them and I'm not sure why. We can't really blame players too much for using the tools given to them at their disposal, especially when there's no punishment for using them. Not saying you can't be mad at players either, but it's ultimately misplaced and only further goes to show that this game relies way too much on mutual respect to be fun.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
they can add basekit UB, but it's automatic and costs a hook stage for the survivor.
this way it can only be used to counter bleedout / all in snowballs and won't be weaponized otherwise because the benefits would hardly outweigh the cost.
it should take about 48-50 seconds and recovery needs to be possible while crawling.
when survivor is picked up, they get all the benefits from being unhooked - they get 10 seconds of endurance and haste and all post-unhook perks (like resurgence or OTR) are activated.
this way risk/reward would both be reduced - the killer doesnt get to keep survivor on the ground until they bleedout, but they would also get something if they are picked up by the system.
that would be fair and would be something both sides could play around without making slugging into a dead playstyle, it just would be an alternative to hooking, rather than a way to bypass hooking mechanics altogether.
I wouldn't call it fair until slugging is appropriately limited to being a catchup mechanic, but this is probably the best BHVR could do. Better than nothing for sure.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3962243#Comment_3962243
That is with Head On not the killer.
Are we still trying to stun Nurse with pallets? How many times do you need to be hit before you learn that's not the play. Treate her like any other killer that can hit over pallets. There are many killers that can do that now. Predrop and force them to blink when you're out of sight.
Or you could do what I did and stun her with a perfectly timed Flashbang during her Blink and crash the entire game
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They used to pop right when the trial started, which was really comfy. Then they nerfed them so that they only appear after a certain number of gens/hooks are completed. Sort of like an anti-catchup mechanic. They've felt terrible ever since.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961855#Comment_3961855
How is this constructive to the original post? Why do people always have to make it a us first them response….
Given how the game is, I don't know that it should ever be a surprise or something you can really blame players for.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961908#Comment_3961908
Yea this is another thing they could have done. Put the leavers and dcers in their own que. I think this is what LoL does with low priority queing.
Honor system and what not.That's what's strange to me. BHVR was very against anything that affected the queue for a long time. So many ideas, like yours, were shot down. But the go next penalty and the crows was the polar opposite of that, punishing essentially everyone that played Survivor. So Idk. Maybe they will start doing things like that now.
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@Rudjohns said:
If the killer closes the hatch = they want you to die
Don't fall for the exit gate charity. They most likely will have No Way Out or will kill you after you opened it
I was gonna share this. It's a toss up as to whether they'll actually let you leave or if they're just messing with you.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961888#Comment_3961888
It is unfortunate we have these bad experiences, my friend.Though honestly I don't mind if killers do not meme around, but I don't like camping/tunneling/slugging either. A normal match is more than okay, ya know?
But I agree with Trapper, I think he is fun to face.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961894#Comment_3961894
Very interesting choices here, my friend!
I think the killers we enjoy playing as tend to be more enjoyable to play against than the others, it is interesting. And I agree completely regarding Blight, yes.
Though, I must ask: Pig / Sm being low is because they are so weak that they provide an enjoyable experience, or because it is unfair from their perspective?
Ye. Memeing isn't necessary but it's a very different trial with a Pig that has no idea what booping is. Stuff like that. Feels like the culture is dead.
The excuse for liking Trapper is usually that he's bad and I want easy wins, but it's not that at all. I miss feeling anxious about loops. I was hoping Dredge would have a similar feel but he didn't. It's better to make objectives unsafe imo versus health states like Legion or Plague.
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I don't know if I "like" going against any of them anymore. Not a lot of memeing anymore, lots of camping/tunneling/slugging at 5 gens. Very few stand out anymore.
Historically I did like Trapper because he's one of the rare exceptions that changes the nature of the trial and is pretty interactive. We need more of those.
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Asymmetry is more about equity. How do we bring players with different strengths and weaknesses onto the same plane? Giving the power role more opportunities to express that power while giving the weaker role whose strength is in numbers more punishment for not striking the perfect balance is not the way to get there.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961808#Comment_3961808
We've seemingly entered the same era for Survivor.
So, what's to be done about it, I wonder.
In half the time, no less. It's quite the feat.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961824#Comment_3961824
It should not have been done first, but rather last. Massively punishing people, making them arbitrarily stay on the menu in order for the timer to count down, all while the state of the game is lackluster is incredibly tone-deaf, imo.
Likewise, if someone is dead at 5 gens, I don't feel like it is unreasonable to want to speed up a doomed match. Certainly, that isn't an uncommon occurrence, but that has been removed as well.
We are already seeing exactly what I said would happen in response to this system. People are just giving up in other ways, you haven't even attempted to fix the problem, just the symptoms. You'll continue to play wack-a-mole with players until you've caught so many in the crossfire that there aren't any left.
Couldn't have said it better. People look at me like I have 3 heads whenever I say this, but the game has become increasingly PVE over the years. It doesn't really feel like you're playing with real people when you don't communicate with them or when the lack of autonomy is reaching NPC levels. It's so one-sided that you can't feasibly force people to stick around. Despite the metaphor, it's not a game of hockey. Either deliver an experience that's fun and fair or let us opt out of bad trial (whether that's going next, DCing, or abandoning). Right now we have the worst of both worlds.
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3960990#Comment_3960990
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961010#Comment_3961010
yea one people telling other to quit the game or telling them to uninstall/delete the game I had message sent tell me to do that after I had bad game, like to people want everyone to quit the game so it can die?
It's one thing when the players do it, but it's another when the devs tell you to do it as well. They'll never live down the Civ comment lmao
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961093#Comment_3961093
last I saw of them was when AoT released in 6.1....gosh that feels like yesterday. can't believe it's been years
It was a very different time. 😔 I miss modding the most. I was recreating all of Heather's shirts from scratch when they patched it out.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961091#Comment_3961091
i will never understand why people are upset that instead of playing the game other people signed up for they give up at mildest inconveniences and proceed to grief and ruin matches, truly a mystery of the century.
Maybe, if we didn't all sign up to play a game where either side can give up on a whim. It's just as one-sided as always.
@ChuckingWong said:
Like look at this @BHVR (id ping your company if I could)
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/R922ZHLZN6SG/image.png
Youre making people sit in matches like this one 5 gens. One was tunneled out (since he didnt want to play against the twins) and this other guy on the right just afks for all of it.
The person that tunneled out, touched a gen, but he just got unhooked and went straight back to it, didnt run from the killer or anything. So my report will probably do nothing in the end.
You generalized all the actual USE for doing this instead of treating the source of problems, as there are many not just this scenario. This match is dead it shouldnt have happened, I should have a way to get out WITHOUT being penalized or having to sit there on the hook for both stages. Which I did in the end.
I can report these people but to what end? Will the report feature even work here?
One guy definetely didnt play the game as intended and just wanted out. And another guy just afk'd.
So no punishment system for them, but punish the players actually playing and staying in game.
To be clear: There is no good option here, but the one you landed on BHVR is the worst option you could have gone with.
Do 0 investigating and fixing of things and detection of matches like this, which are plenty, and instead removed a system because of bad actors. Leaving players having to sit through crap like this.@ChuckingWong said:
Is this what we allow now? This is the trade off of hookacides?
You can freely play the game as long as you touch a generator, everything is fine. If you want out just stay on the generator and let the killer get a free hook/kill, a report wont do anything you touched the objective youre fine. Role play and ruin everyone elses match in a different language now.
As an aside BHVR look how common this crap is literally the next matchhttps://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/5BD3VBB47CXQ/image.png
Your legitimate players have to sit in a match with 2 bots now. Hooray so glad hookacides are gone, what an amazing implementationCase in point.
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I have an all around build, but half of it is dedicated to healing. Usually it's Strength In Shadows, Desperate Measures, and two extra slots. Sometimes Bite The Bullet, Visionary, Light Footed, etc.
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She squeaks, but there are worse ones. I hate Jill's and Sheva's. HAYAEEEEEEAAHHHH!
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@ChrissyG88 said:
Sorry, but who is Jeryl?
Old glitch that lets you play Cheryl with James' head.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3960843#Comment_3960843
aaaaaaaand how any of that justifies the DCing sabotage the community exploited? yeah, thanks, I know how bad 3 gen SM was, I even acknowledged it in the very message you responded to.
ghoul with 2 token loss (when its not bugged) is very much manageable if you arent terrible at the only skill expressive thing according to anti loop killers haters, and even if he isnt, there's nothing that genuinely warrants sabotaging games just to make a point for BHVR, skull merchant's gen hostage would've been addressed without it.
and too bad that people didnt just DC against just these two particular killers. Oh no, they were DCing and killing themselves against literally anything in any situation. I saw screenshots of ######### perkless trappers getting people to RQ.
your other points are completely irrelevant. if people cant handle playing the game and need to sabotage games for everyone else (and thus contributing to making the game actually unplayable and more miserable) then they need to ######### quit and it's good that these babies or burnt out miserable people are being driven away by harsher penalties.
genuinely been enjoying not having a dipshit killing themselves on hook because something went wrong every 2nd match as solo q survivor. too bad miserable people would rather bend over themselves and keep looking for ways to grief games instead of cutting their losses, but hey, at least there's less of them, as expected.
I will never understand the level of anger toward going next. Guaranteed that anger isn't going to fade away and die with these preventions. Give it enough time and there will be complaints about how Survivors aren't trying hard enough and how we need to bring back harsher penalties for not playing "right".
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There's no reason a Killer player should have so much wiggle room that they get to pause the entire game for everyone else to secure a victory. While I get that it's stressful, the overseer/power role should be (as long as it's still fun of course).
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I do notice that sometimes I have a lucky and unlucky Survivors. If I keep getting found first on Alan, I'll switch over to Leon for a bit. Leon keeps dying on hook, I switch to David and escape a couple times.
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@Marzipan210 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3960461#Comment_3960461
When it comes to issues of bugs and balancing decisions I would say yes telling people to leave over displeasure about that is inappropriate but I see a lot of people whose complaints are that there are things in the game they don't like. Not even things that are even just overpowered or whatever. But just things that exist that they personally don't like. They see a killer they don't like or a map they don't like or one of their teammates is opening a chest or has no mither, etc. and they decide they don't want to play.
if a game is only fun for someone if everything goes perfectly for them every time then I don't think that game is healthy for them.That's where game design is at fault. It's not so much that the trial has to go perfectly, but that the experience has to feel worthwhile. For Survivors at least, they have to feel like they have the opportunity to play a full trial and have fun. Killer typically wants to interact with Survivor as much as possible and end in a 4k (at least since MMR). The game seemed to be at its best when 2k was the standard. Killer was more stressful, but more engaging. Survivor was more lax, but gave more room for the mistakes of your teammates (aka less SWF focused). Now that the game is in this odd comp space, players are more unhappy. Telling them to leave treats it as a "well you can't please everybody" situation, which is true, but you can at least try to make the experience better based on what they're telling you.
@Gucci_218_TTV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958292#Comment_3958292
Lol this isn't correct. There is literally PRO teams who, played against PRO SKULL MERCHANTS that have stated that her 3 gen strat was ridiculous. Watch the video yourself it's like 50 minutes long.
Ghoul is definitely OP still even after the nerf and i bet more than 50% of the players would agree which makes it a problem whether you think they are crying or not lol.
The DC penalty wasnt bad previously so why buff it. Now if i get a matchmaking ban, the timer only decreases while my app is open... that's ridiculous. And i promise will cause many players to delete the game for ive had 5 already quit since most recent update. Its unnessasary and just downright obnoxious.
Love the game but every single player has quit at some point for many reasons. Bad teammates, teammates whom are teaming with killer (which mind you if you report teamers nothing ever happens @BHVR),
examples : possible cheating, even bugs make players quit. 90% of the time when i rage quit it tends to be someone cheating and most of the time they are but im still punished for leaving or i have a teammate whom just helps killer get you while they've been hiding entire game we ALL know it happens. Lag too.
Pc players who cheat actively continue cheating with very little repercussions for vpn basically saves them cuz BHVR's anti cheat is still horrid. Ive had cheaters pull my ip address and found my real name. Sad that playing the game puts me at risk and for BHVR to just shush players who speak out about anti cheat. Theres many many issues that will never be fixed.
@ChuckingWong said:
Theres a big difference between a game going perfectly and you being stuck in a match where people are mismatched in your MMR, afking, crouch hiding and not contributing to team play.
While you sit on the hook.It's funny because the community tends to treat leaving these situations as a cardinal sin, punishable by death. But what does anyone do when their time is being wasted? Do you sit on hold in a call after 10 minutes? Do you stay seated at a restaurant after you've waited an hour for your order? Do you stay in the same lane behind the bus? There's just certain things we as people are unwilling to do. When a game, which is supposed to be a place to unwind, inconveniences you as much as the BS you have to put up with in life, there's a problem. DCing/going next is not pretty, but it's a solution to that problem. Maybe Phase 2 will make up for it, but we'll have to wait and see.
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My answer isn't anything special.
There's the tunneling that activates DS—the relentless pursuit right off of hook, forcing chase and ignoring other survivors. The sort of thing that everyone hates.
Then there's the tunneling that isn't technically tunneling but feels like tunneling. Where you're the same one on the hook twice in a row by chance, or where you were abandoned by your team and ran off only to be found again. The sort of thing that's typically on accident but still has the same outcome.
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@Marzipan210 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3959922#Comment_3959922
FNAF 3 is the only game in the series(actually the only time in the entire expanded series) that William Afton(Springtrap) acts that way. Every other time you see him(in the later games, the books, and in the movie) he is a talkative and overdramatic character. To be honest the nailed him perfectly in dbd. He may even be the most lore accurate licensed killer in the game now.
I feel like if dbd hurts people's sanity then they maybe just shouldn't be playing it at all? Too many people made doom queueing a habit imo. They really don't like the game anymore but they keep queuing up looking to find a match that will make them feel like when they started playing. It doesn't happen so they go next or DC and queue again. That isn't healthy for them or for the game.Telling players to leave has never been a good idea. It's the easy, avoidant way out of the problem. I'm not gonna lie and say asymmetrical horror is an easy genre to work on since it's almost resistant to health and fun, but you can tell when developers try versus when they only give the bare minimum.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
None of these perks are going to see any use. Just trying to read and understand them was a chore.
Why are modern DbD perks always like “Rummage through two chests then bless a totem and then when the killer is within 24 metres scream and reveal your aura and your teammates nearby have their scratch marks hidden.”
Like obviously I’m being hyperbolic but it’s all so convoluted and hard to use for such a mediocre benefit.
Because all of the good ideas are taken. All we get are recycled ideas, hence why the majority of perks being run are over 5 years old. When we do get something simple and effective, it doesn't tend to last for too long.
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@Rookie1978 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3959372#Comment_3959372
I was personally dissapointed with Springtrap; amazing model and animations, fun voicelines, but it doesn't feel like Springtrap at all. They were so close with the doors, cameras, security room… and then he throws a fireaxe too, with some random effects on it.
Springtrap not being a stealth killer is what ######### me up, personally. Stealthy killer with lots of counterplay like Alien would've been the perfect fit. But the only 'jumpscare' you get to do as Springtrap is an extremely slow axe grab yell in their face animation.
He's more corny than he is scary, which is a shame. Again; amazing model, genuinely the best 'official' model of Springtrap we've ever gotten. His power? A bit lazy, sort of contrived, a mess.
A more interactive stealth-based Springtrap would've been so, so perfect.
He really was screaming for that. He's the polar opposite of FNAF 3. It's a similar thing with Child's Play imo (funny too because FNAF 3 always reminded me of Child's Play 3). I love the franchise but Chucky has never been fun to go against. He was especially broken at the start and only attracted campers and tunnelers. Even now, I know every trial is gonna suck with him.
At some point, I wonder if DBD does more harm than good if it's a player's first exposure to any given franchise.
@Marzipan210 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3959368#Comment_3959368
People should have the ability to DC but that doesn't mean that disconnecting shouldn't be discouraged either. Sometimes life happens and you need to get off the computer or the console and that is all fine but if that is what happens then surely the DC penalty doesn't matter then right? Cause it isn't like you are going to be coming back to the game soon anyway?
All getting rid of the DC penalty would do is enable people to basically shop for their preferred matches. Ones where they are going against a preferred killer or on a preferred map, etc. and that just isn't a healthy thing for the game.The issue is that the game isn't stable enough to appropriately punish DCing. Between inconsistent matchmaking, balancing that encourages steamrolling, how isolated the experience has become, a lack of features to help break up static play, etc., it just makes sense to leave sometimes in order to preserve your time and sanity. If you take the punishment approach like BHVR did, you see what happens. Players are locked out for any reason under the sun and the queue starts to dry up. Likewise, we've seen what it's like with no penalty and at worst it's annoying. Find a way to ease the pressure DCing puts on a trial and it becomes a necessary evil or an inconvenience. You could still keep the penalty too, but I'd be really hesitant to let it go beyond ~10 minutes or make it decay in real-time like we do now.