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@Rookie1978 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958292#Comment_3958292
my only dog in this race is noting that skull merchant was absolutely a flop in every direction including game design and nobody cares if the ghoul is op or not they hate that his power feels like BS to play against, it's a gamefeel discussion more than anything else
i dont play survivor that often but i personally love disconnecting in protest instead of being forced to play against skurchant or nurse because they're awful
even now (i mostly play killer) so many survs either give up and let me kill them as soon as they mess up a loop, or just dc as soon as i down them even though there's still plenty of game left
im not saying that the new system is bad or anything but people are just going to give up if they want to and if a notable number of people would rather consistently DC against a certain killer maybe there's just something wrong with how that killer was designed
At this point, I think it's much more that new Killers are emphasizing the core issues with the game and balancing. Hence why you hear petty reasons being listed as the primary motivators to go next. Players are beyond fatigued. It's one thing to expect that you won't survive (which isn't good but I digress). It's another to expect that you won't get to play or have fun, which the balancing across the entire game promotes.
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@Marzipan210 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3959117#Comment_3959117
Still nobody is going to opt in. Survivor queues are always basically instant so there is no incentive for them to opt in to back fill and killer queues are always long which you would think would give them an incentive to do it but because most killer DC's tend to happen when the match is lost I can't see killer players wanting to wait what would still be longer queue times than survivor just to get into a lost match.
Go next prevention is the best solution here.True, but I disagree that the prevention is the best solution.
@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3959099#Comment_3959099
Yeah the bots are there for a reason and while ideally you want someone to play a match, DC penalties encourage the worst option of the two where the rest of the team gets left with nothing instead of a bot that will at least try its botty best, which is more than someone who wants out will do
I agree. If DBD were a totally different game, I might think that discouraging DCs would be a good idea. But it's just appropriate to have the ability to.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958617#Comment_3958617
How are SWFs taking advantage? The progress is slowed when other survivors are near. As long as you are not standing in front of the hook that survivor is going stage 2 when another survivor is around. You are also talking like this is a new system. It's been around for quite some time and SWFs don't abuse it. In reality, if survivors swarm the hook it benefits you the killer if you play it right.
Honestly it could stand to be buffed on that front. That the bar charges regardless of who's around unless there is an active chase.
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@JPLongstreet said:
I think it would be better for everyone if no profiles could be seen actually.
I agree. What we should see is player ping, including the Killer's.
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@Marzipan210 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3959111#Comment_3959111
This is BHVR we are talking about. Swapping killer assets would cause the game to implode.
Trust me, I'm more than well aware of that lmao But I think it would solve a lot of issues. Punishments and incentives are unrealistic overall. The former is more comp-thinking and the latter is more casual-thinking and DBD exists somewhere in between. All we can do is minimize the damage without toppling the house of cards.
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@Marzipan210 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3959107#Comment_3959107
Would they take over the bot the previous person left behind? Would they have to use their perks? Would they have their hook states? I can't imagine anyone would opt in if any of these are true.
You queue up with your character and pop in. When a player DCs, their bot takes over the controls until a new player is matched in. That could present an issue with Killer powers being swapped solely from the perspective of how assets are loaded, but I don't think it'd be impossible to iron out.
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@Marzipan210 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3959099#Comment_3959099
Backfilling would never work in a game like this
Worked fine in Killer Klowns. The only downside was that you couldn't opt in or out, so matchmaking would be a bit of a surprise.
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It's magical thinking a lot of the time. Because the trial could theoretically turn out in your favor, we have to sit through it. But the reality is that most of us have enough game sense to know when the trial is borked and where we should cut our losses. I agree that something has to be done, whether that's rolling back the go next restrictions or smoothing the game out.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
Well as I have said countless times, it keeps them in the match but it cant make them actually want to put their heart and soul into a match and in many ways a bot would be better.
I guess the problem for BHVR is they cant just let the go next epidemic continue but the problem is, how do you make people play matches they don't want to play?
I am not sure this can really be fixed
Genuinely the best way is to make DCs more attractive than staying and hurting the trial while adding kickbacks that prevent the trial from ending because of that. Bots are good but we need Killer bots as well. Then backfilling for the queue, which players can opt in or out of.
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Most of the new perks are underwhelming. They're weaker versions of better perks we already have. Until those perks end up on the chopping block of course.
If I could make a new set, I'd do something more like Nic Cage's. Emphasize fun over meta. An idea I had for a Dead Rising crossover would be the Flashbang system but with Mixed Juices: charge the perk, get into a locker, leave with an item that gives you one of four random effects when consumed. I'd love more perks that trick the Killer as well, whether that be more in the direction of jump scares like Scene Partner or Blast Mine or more in the direction of illusions like Mirrored Illusion. Bardic Inspiration is another great direction to take. Something that gives players a unique animation and interaction.
Granted none of these would survive very long and that's probably why they aren't emphasized, but the game DESPERATELY needs fun and these would provide.
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This is gonna sound really dour, but as much as I think they should effectively find ways of improving the game on a technical level, the fact that we have to send video evidence to even get them to look into these problems shows how lacking any sort of authority on these issues is. At this point, I think it'd be easier for them to make a brand new game.
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958873#Comment_3958873
I think as well they will be forced out of their hands to scale the difficulty but in a bad and worst way possible where casual and randoms and new players will suffer from, and the difference will be minimal on the premades that use comms
Most likely. It's too weak in 2v8 as is. When you're really pressed against the wall, it should come in clutch. But often times it's the same boost you'd get from a perk. In order for it to be effective, it has to actively prevent steamrolls on either side.
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958849#Comment_3958849
Yeah since asymm games have it built in its all about team work, the devs have been slowly building up to that point by making it soon that perks will be visible to other survivors the ones you have chosen to play with so the missmatch wont be an issue here, obviously some players will refuse to change just because but yeah.
They should at this point add the vc in game and then see how fast stats change.
Just worries me how it will all play out the upcoming changes.
I do hope so they have properly tested things out and have been testing it.
The whole gen rush has to go since its mostly present in the people who use comms, i from now on wont call them swfs since yeah there are people who play with friends but dont use any comms only at the end and start of the game and i think thats fair.
Comm users are the ones that need balancing
I don't think it'd make a huge difference considering SWFs are still below 50%. It's really hard to balance matchmaking around a game with as many variables as DBD (RNG game pretending to be comp), but then factor into that how many new players are constantly cycling in. It would be a common thing to have to teach people how to play every trial. A lot of players would mute it too.
BUT, comms would help bridge the gap between solos and SWFs and make it easier to balance the game despite how successful or unsuccessful they may actually be. At that point, the only complaint would be that SWFs are manipulating the matchmaking which wouldn't be a fair claim since Killers equally have the ability to lobby dodge.
As far as the upcoming changes go, they already have the tools to make it work. The issue is that camping/slugging/tunneling are catchup mechanics that can be used at any stage of the trial. They have two choices—implement a mechanic that's just as strong for survivor (think old hatch and DS) or limit their viability to pure catchup mechanics (scaling difficulty similarly to what 2v8 uses). Knowing BHVR though, I see them ultimately choosing the least effective measure.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957464#Comment_3957464
Didn't notify me of your reply, my bad.
Yeah, BHVR has really selective balancing. Sometimes it does seem top-down, other times it really doesn't. I'm not really sure there's anything to be done, significantly, for the new player experience at this point. DBD is so much more bloated than it was when I started, that's a double-edged sword. WAY more licenses and Killers/Survivors to draw in new players, but WAY harder to keep them with the insurmountable grind and knowledge cliff.
The forums are cooked, nbd.
100%. The high turnover is part of what keeps the game chugging along at this point. Big license, free weekend, great numbers. But then it bobs up and down for the rest of the year. The period between the two RE chapters, especially during the camping meta with Singularity, Knight, and SM, was proof that nobody really cares that much about DBD itself. If it's not pulling licenses, it's destined for maintenance mode.
Unfortunately, I think anything with game balance will always take a back seat to that.
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Maybe I'm ignorant but what I'm getting from this thread now is that it's OK if the majority of players suffer just so the minority of trials favor one role. It's a roundabout way of saying that the one role should always win.
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958745#Comment_3958745
Im just trying to see something from my own amusement, since at this point comms in a avg sized map with right perks can give SWF an edge similar to what hacking does since both are external
The specific issue there is that DBD should have had comms from the very beginning. It's the only asymm that doesn't and it shows. Whenever the idea is presented, players advocate against it and then get upset later that friends are talking on Discord. Can't have it both ways.
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Hopefully phase 2 is pretty decent. Right now it's feeling especially PVE.
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@IamtheMilkman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958462#Comment_3958462
2v8 is a game mode. Don’t like it? Then don’t play it.
It's a valid question. Is comms and playing with friends busted always or just sometimes?
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It's acknowledged but went unchanged last patch.
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@IamtheMilkman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958457#Comment_3958457
I could say the same with swf, when’s that getting nerfed?
Do you feel the same about 2v8?
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You're designed to win most of your trials. Survivors are expected to lose the majority of their trials. What's the problem?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958411#Comment_3958411
A lot of Killers are quite simple mechanically as well, so I don't think there's some massive gulf.
As usual, the difference really is just knowledge. As a Survivor, you need to have knowledge of all Killers and we have, what, 35 or so now? That's a HUGE amount of knowledge to need to learn and you really have no control over when or how you learn it.
As a Killer, you can choose to play as many or as few Killers as you like. Every Survivor is the same and has the same basic abilities. Learning perks will definitely be a pain, but that's also true of Survivor.
Items complicate it too. Maps were obsolete by the time I joined, but now Keys and Offerings are too. Lots of junk to try to understand.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958389#Comment_3958389
I always thought the forums was a place for the deranged but three people holding one account confirms it
I don't wanna touch this one with a 10-foot pole but I don't think it's 3 "physical" people.
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Idk that I'm convinced that it's getting top-down balancing, but it's somewhere in between (as always). The emphasis on making sure that Killer is always given the advantage to maintain the kill rates certainly feels like it though. The level of punishing DBD feels like, especially as Survivor, these days puts it on par with how it feels to play a Korean MMO without a large disposable income lmao
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What I don't understand at all is why we ever got AFC when healthy hook grabs were removed. That was the only thing making face camping deadly at that point. Proxy camping has the same effect as face camping when resources are down and you're injured.
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Tbh you're right. BHVR isn't doing much to make team play more viable, but they are doing a lot to punish selfish plays (minus MMR of course). The last thing we need is to limit gameplay even more, but it does fit the MO.
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It's sad, but it's true. Does anyone else remember that it took negging a developer to the point where they started screaming at people on stream in order to finally implement accessibility options? It was getting nowhere before then. Unfortunately, a lot of changes with this game only happen when things get extreme.
Granted, we don't need go next to make that happen. It's a successful method historically, but the queue is also effective; kill rates are effective; player retention is effective; etc.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3949701#Comment_3949701
Survivors will literally never get over when killers got 2.5% on kicks and a quarter of a second off of their pallet breaks. By the way, that was the same update that gave survivors basekit BT, which is arguably a lot more impactful than .2 seconds off of a gen kick.
It isn't, except if the killer is constantly running afoul of it.
That's part of the substantial distinction between what killers got out of 6.1 and what survivors got out of it. The killer buffs are, with the one exception being the bloodlust one, universal. EVERY killer, no matter how they play, will kick a gen at some point. They will hit survivors. They will break pallets. They will make survivors sprint upon getting hit. A lot of these will be done plenty of times per match, too.
But the only killers that will notice the basekit BT are the ones who are at the hook at the moment of unhooking.
This is a list of compounding, universal killer buffs that affect every match and specifically more impactfully affect those that are not tunnelling/camping/slugging, versus survivors being -slightly- harder to tunnel and considerably harder to camp.
If you just follow the normal gameplay loop of 'Chase → down → hook → chase', then survivors got nothing out of this, while you got six buffs.
Late to the party, but I'd also like to add that anyone that downplays the effect 6.1.0 had on the Survivor role is intentionally being deceptive at best.
Basekit BT was originally too weak to have a big impact. At the same time, camping Killers had stronger hit recovery that would allow them to hit a healthy Survivor and hook grab them in one go. I had to start running Desperate Measures or else it was impossible. That, paired with a stronger gen regression meta, meant that they didn't have to interact with gens at all.
With very little means to progress and an extreme lack of autonomy, going next skyrocketed overnight.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957464#Comment_3957464
I feel like that piled on with a few killers with really bad counterplay (Ghoul/Blight/Spirit/Nurse) who can tunnel really easily. Then the release of Springtrap who is a monster at tunneling (teleport to hook m2>m1). I feel like they don't play their own game, nor do any testing on this sort of playstyle.
Perhaps it's because the anti-tunnel is down the line, but maybe we should have introduced these changes BEFORE the largest player spike in history of dbd, not after when people get accustomed to it and expect it to stay that way.
IDK i'm talking nonsense but I'm just so tired of the lack of action, this event particularly is very telling of it.For sure. It's the ignorance that gets me the most. We can shout to the heavens what's going on for years and then when someone on the team finally listens, they tell us they're trying to figure out what the problem is. 😵 Then we get a change that does the opposite of helping the issue. Not that I personally blame any one person or entity—it's a complex thing.
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Follow the rules to the T, listen to the people making the packs if they say to uninstall until it's stable, and you should be OK with any mod.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957359#Comment_3957359
Never played Killer Klowns, but yeah, it's been a struggle for sure.
He feels like he isn't even getting a chance to TRY to learn before he's dead.
Pre-release was gr8. Some busted stuff and bad apples, but not super comp. Lots of wiggle room. Though every PVP game is the best right at the beginning.
I can't even say BHVR does top down balancing, but that's why it could never work in a game like DBD. New players shouldn't be this frustrated for as long as they are. There should be a sense of accomplishment very early on and like they're figuring it out. As is, it's way too punishing.
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/448931/recommendations
If you don't mind me asking, would you be open to sharing which recent changes have impacted the stealthy playstyle you prefer?
When it comes to collecting feedback and bringing it back to the team, it really helps to have specifics, and I want to make sure I have an accurate read on what you're describing here.Most of it was because of the go next prevention and the changes to AFK crows. That's all in a better place than it was, but it was the final straw for players that had already been affected by the changes to Distortion while aura reading being used against them was still pretty strong.
I understand there's a requirement to address players that AFK or hide and wait for hatch, but those changes affected too many players that weren't doing that at all.
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Interesting. So it's essentially an official version of NightLight (using the results screen). What data is it pulling from to get older stats then?
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Yeah, it's the artists' signature. I'm not sure if it's in house or commissioned out, but it is nice to see them credited.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957141#Comment_3957141
Yeah, it is amazing that you need so many hours in DBD. You see people with 800 hours and then you can think "Yeah, they are quite new, no wonder they played like that". And it is also not understandable for those people either.
I played against a Killer with like 250 hours or so a few weeks ago (somewhat after Ghoul-Release, since he played Ghoul) and they were VERY VERY upset that they lost. They felt like they did not have a chance at all and I had to explain to them that they were just new at the game and that it takes a few hundred hours to fully grasp the game and that it is totally fine that they dont play that well currently. They did not believe me.
In general I feel that the game is a lot harder to learn nowadays than back then. As Killer it is roughly the same as before, unless you start buying all Killers and dont focus on a few select few, because then you would just not really get good with any of them for quite some time. But as Survivor, I cannot really imagine learning to play against Killers nowadays since you can play hundreds of hours before you faced every Killer at least once.
There is just so much more content in the game which makes it harder to learn.
That's why it's so hard for me to get mad at my teammates unless it's blatantly obvious they're being a D. How can I expect anyone to know how to crouch around Hag or that the Unknown isn't actually here right now? You almost have to take a class and earn a license before you can play despite how basic the loop itself actually is.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957148#Comment_3957148
yeah that's been the hardest part. He spends very little time actually playing the game and more time in queues, menus or spectating.
That was something I really enjoyed about Killer Klowns. After you died, you got to play games to help the remaining humans and they had the chance to respawn you. Most people got bored and DCed, but there was at least an attempt to keep people busy.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957032#Comment_3957032
I think the point is that there's a double standard in the community. The killer player is expected to take everyone else's feelings and fun into account, while survivors can use every trick and BM in the book and not catch any flak. The killer has a long list of things that they're not allowed to do because it's "unsportsmanlike," while survivors can do whatever they want.
That's pretty disingenuous though, you have to admit. Killers are always talking about the Survivor rulebook. It's dominated the conversation of balance as far as I can recall. I don't know how that's not catching any flack.
Likewise, Killers expect the same of Survivors as well. Are we going to pretend that keys weren't incredibly unsafe to bring to the trial for years? There's always some threat regarding offerings, whether those are maps or event offerings (there's a thread up right now about that); individual Survivors (as in the characters) end up targeted; specific builds; you name it. There's just as many things Survivors can't do or they'll be punished by facing poorly implemented catch up mechanics. The only difference is that the list of complaints for Survivor tend to be less obtuse (camping/tunneling/slugging, I don't like X killer, etc.).
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It's always wild going from any other PVP game where you eat scheiße for the first day or two but then you get the hang of it and hold your own, back to DBD where it's commonly accepted that you need what, 500 hours to reach that same spot. It was rough when we joined. Idk how anyone manages to stay anymore.
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@Choaron said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3948722#Comment_3948722
So you want to kill this game, got it. Stick to coop games if you don't mind playing with bots.
In a way, you have a point. If DBD was brought up to the standard that other asymmetrical games or PVP games in general are expected to meet, it would not survive. I don't think players would accept a truly balanced, more dynamic experience.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956863#Comment_3956863
FNAF is a content update. That's a given to happen.
I'm talking with go next prevention. It was really harmful to the queue. Granted they did roll it back, but they generally shut that sort of stuff down early, before it goes live, if it's going to impact the queue that strongly. At least as long as I've been playing.
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I didn't sign up for my results but I've escaped 45-ish times since the rift dropped, according to the milestone rewards. I'm sure that's about 40%. I will say the majority of those are the result of the events though, which does skew it quite a bit.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
This would also increase queue times.
Tbf I'm not entirely sure if that's their priority anymore given the FNAF patch.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956370#Comment_3956370
Well said, my dear friend! I completely agree.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956290#Comment_3956290
Might go back to it at some point, friend, but I wanna go with SM for some time.
😌✊
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
Simple answer really, people like winning, they prefer winning with minimal effort, and negativity bias makes the matches where they have to actually try seem worse then they really were
When most Killers encounter a group of Survivors that requires them to “lock in” and actually try, they will claim Killer is stressful
Taking the match I posted complaining about haste-stacking as an example, I got a 4K at 3 gens and literally the only problem I encountered was the 2 people who had Power of Two and Blood Pact, I still won, but the experience required actually trying when most of my matches don’t, this led to the match feeling a lot worse then it actually was, because yeah dealing with two Survivors running at 112% wasn’t fun, but at the end of the day I still won.
So when people say Killer is stressful, I don’t really believe it, it’s usually more a case of one match out of twenty being mildly stressful and the end result was still a 4K anyway
To piggyback off of this, I think the game overall feels bad to play. We all want our optimal matches and when they don't go that way, they feel a lot worse than they would if the game didn't feel so bleh. For instance, I'm sure a lot of Survivors escape more than they think. It's how they escaped (Killer giving it to them, event mechanics carrying them, etc. vs. earning it for themselves—low vs. high autonomy) as well as how bad the average trial feels. The reward feels pointless. Likewise I'm sure many Killers are genuine when they claim the game is awful for Killer right now, but it's because they're not getting the trials they want as easily even if they're winning most if not all of them like you said.
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nooooo rip freddy icon
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I like the concept, but the execution left a lot to be desired imo. The plot just didn't land for me at all and certain elements that could've been stronger left me feeling really meh. Though to be fair, I am kind of a snob when it comes to story writing.
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Noice! Thank you. I still find the bad optics on "deadbypride" amusing lmao
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@CrossTheSholf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955941#Comment_3955941
Most killers are pretty weak actually. Why do you think you encounter the same damn killers over and over and over again?
It depends on region and bracket. I get a lot of stealth killers, which doesn't seem to happen everywhere. Kill rates are unreliable as always, but they do paint a picture that every Killer is able to have more success killing than Survivors do escaping.
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@PleaseRewind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955453#Comment_3955453
Not sure if you play in my region but if you ever match up against me you’ll get it. I always let the survivor go who has the hand or eye just in case they need it.
Aye aye 😎
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@konchok said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955790#Comment_3955790
I've only just got back into the game. I left when playing killer was so much harder and it was so much fun then. I really enjoyed it, but now I load into killer and it's just kill everyone at 5 gens. That's not fun. So I nerfed myself and started running just bbq and brutal strength. And there's no reason in the world that I should win with only those two perks and zero add-ons and yet I'm still killing more than 2 survivors on average. And I came onto this forum expecting users to demand proper balance in the game and what do I see instead, killers saying that they need even more of an advantage! It's honestly so gross.
It definitely gives you the sense that nothing will ever be good enough, doesn't it? lmao
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@Raptorrotas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955880#Comment_3955880
It works when discussing killer so why shouldnt survivors be scrutinized the same way?
Because the disparity is too strong. The stats show that while some SWFs can be very strong, most aren't. Meanwhile, while some Killers can be incredibly weak, most aren't.