UnicornMedal
UnicornMedal
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@GeneralV said:
I think the problem with Boons basically boils down to CoH and how poorly that perk was handled after its release.
Because, even though the Boons have their niche uses, only CoH ever became part of the survivor meta. A meta that tends to suffer because, generally speaking, the DBD community is very hostile towards the survivor meta. The meta being dominated by the original iterations of Decisive Strike and Dead Hard was complained about, the DS + UB combo was complained about even in matches where it didn't have any use because the killer didn't tunnel or slug, Adrenaline was complained about even though it was not overpowered, and the list goes on.
CoH became meta and immediately it was complained about, and eventually the perk was nerfed. But the problem is that they nerfed it in the wrong way, because now this perk is gone from the meta entirely. It is my opinion, that a better way to handle CoH (and others if needed) was to keep the perk's original version but make it so that it can be permanently destroyed.
I am aware that this was suggested before, and many discussions happened, but I truly believe it is the best way to fix it. For instance, one of the arguments against it was the idea that Boons and Hexes are inherently different, which has its merits: hexes are active from the start of the match, but the killer cannot choose where to put them. Boons need to be manually activated, but the survivor gets to choose where it will be placed. Hexes tend to be stronger but are permanently destroyed, while Boons tend to be weaker but can be used over and over again.
The concept sounds good in theory, but in practice it creates a scenario where you can never make good Boon perks. Circle of Healing was not overpowered, but it had enough strength to warrant permanent destruction, and since Boons were never made to be permanently destroyed, the perk was nerfed into obscurity.
I believe the best way to fix Boons is by buffing them, but making it so that if the killer finds and destroys it, the perk is deactivated. You can even make the blessing action shorter to make it more fair, but I think that works better than leaving them in their mediocre state.
A big issue too is cause and effect I think. We're always much more concerned with "if you do this, I have to defend myself". CoH was in the same category (I think) as perks like WGLF, BBQ, Devour Hope, or even Inner Strength. Not in the sense that the perk itself was the same, but in the sense that the objective changed the course of the trial and helped eliminate some of the complaints in an organic way. It could've been nerfed to just be group Self-Care and it'd still be beneficial toward that goal. But like you said, small thinking leads to removing things entirely versus maintaining variety and that only enforces stale metas that nobody enjoys.
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3952815#Comment_3952815
It is my opinion, that a better way to handle CoH (and others if needed) was to keep the perk's original version but make it so that it can be permanently destroyed.
I don't think that's a good idea, either.
I mentioned this in discussions about Invocations (Another perk type that's permanently ruined by standardisation), but the higher you make the stakes and risks for a perk, the higher its pay-off has to be. If you have a boon that requires you to find a totem, then spend 14 seconds blessing it, and then it is gone completely if the killer finds it and interacts with it for a second, that pay-off has to be -huge- to be worth considering.
Problem with that huge pay-off is that it's going to be very poorly received by the other side. Even if it is mathematically fair, plenty of people will feel unfairly disadvantaged by it.
I think it's a much better idea to think in smaller steps. Like giving it a cooldown upon the perk getting snuffed, ranging from 60-120 seconds, depending on the perk. You can even add a hindrance to the player that is tied to the boon, like Dark Theory giving you a 1% hinder, Shadow Step making you Oblivious, and CoH either giving you Mangled or Exposed.
This too. I don't know why we get lukewarm perks that are gassed up to be something really special and powerful when they clearly are not. Weaving Spiders has been a joke from day one. There are SOME clutch plays with it and at least it's more useful than Potential Energy, but it's poorly designed. Treacherous Crows is even worse. Invocations to me are sort of a repentance for Boons, which I find bizarre. Especially in a meta where Survivors could stand to be stronger without much of an impact.
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@Zuiphrode said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3952713#Comment_3952713
You can just wait for four minutes to die, or your friends can save you. After all, it's just four minutes, right?
soz babe
@deckyr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3952713#Comment_3952713
the entire point of the killer's existence is to affect the survivor's gameplay and autonomy. if we removed everything that affected their autonomy, we'd remove hook states.
Not quite the same thing. Slugging pauses gameplay for survivors. The back and forth isn't the same.
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@Zuiphrode said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3952674#Comment_3952674
You, and survs, should get over slugging then, because "you'll just have to get over it".
Why should only the feelings of survs matter? Toxicity is toxicity.
Because slugging affects gameplay and autonomy. Are the survivors at the gates preventing you from playing or are they hurting your feelings? It's an important distinction to make.
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I think it's a good idea to have the web give stronger rewards the higher it goes. The mechanic is not premium, it's entirely based on time investment. It's a good idea for players to get returns on that. Keeps BP relevant.
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I don't say this to be mean, but you just have to get over it. It's like smacking on hook or smack-talking in chat. Issues with gameplay should always take priority and that's something that's on the devs. Our psychological well-being is on us and us alone. Now if t-bagging is preventing you from playing the game and affecting your autonomy as a player, we can talk about that. But if it's just rude or insulting, then it is what it is.
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It'd be a good start. Eventually we'd need better matchmaking and comms too.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3952175#Comment_3952175
The reason the others can't have a radius boost is BHVR's annoying tendency towards standardisation. All boons must work as similar as possible, which means that the constraints applied to hold back CoH must also hinder Illuminate.
Boons should have individual statistics, including boon-time, radius, cooldown when snuffed, etc.
Just make it so picking up multiple boons sets them all to the worst parameters among those selected. Now you've got way more space to balance every individual boon.
Jeez, tell me about it. They can't hide the fact that the only reason Blast Mine has ever gotten nerfed is because the code is shared with Wire Tap. They always get changed together and they're the same changes every time. The game could have so much more variety.
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3952224#Comment_3952224
Yeah the Q times for killer are bad, I agree. Still a much better experience than survivor though. I’ve even tried bringing out nothing but sweaty stuff and it’s still horrendous as survivor, and I think that says something. You can’t even gen rush them before being doomed. I was like this is crazier than normal.
A good opportunity to learn why go next was so popular for those who don't understand. But that's really wishful thinking. 😵
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If the Anniversary events are still happening and it's just the Masquerade that's going, they might appear then.
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@Superyoshiegg Idk if I'll get a slap on the wrist for it, but it's a starts-with-S-rhymes-with-Tex thing. Not that her creators are much better given what you find in her room on her map, but yknow.
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To be totally honest, I've never been a huge fan of them. Anecdotes like the one you shared are cool, I'll admit. But they usually tend to go more on the side of "We have the best community ever!!" (are they being serious 😭) or rando stuff like you mentioned. In another thread I brought up the old anniversary comments about Trickster, which were really thirsty and kinda gross and weird. Often times they make me feel an even stronger disconnect from the devs, but that might just be me.
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I haven't had any count for a while now and it already dropped me once today but it seems to change from player to player.
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It is objectively bad, but I'm feeling kinda zen so I'm just powering through it. Events usually go back and forth like this. Cakewalk for Survivor, then cakewalk for Killer. Blood Moon could still be cheesed through via camping/tunneling/slugging as anything ever added to the game, but it was a nice way to feel like we had autonomy again. Then here it's the opposite. Next event might be more in our favor.
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The game needs more diverse controls or better priority with actions. Defensive/unhook actions → item/killer interactions → healing would be a good start.
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I like the theme but I won't be sad to see Tryx go.
As a sidenote, has there ever been a Harley Quinn dupe that was a fraction as likeable as Harley?
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At the time, they felt very inappropriate. The game needed better balancing, not more objectives for Killer to have to balance. In the current state of the game, they really could use a lot of love though. I see no reason why old CoH couldn't make a comeback with how effective it was as a slowdown or why the others couldn't have a radius boost.
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I like the variety but part of me is starting to wonder how many tough people are infantilized in the realm. There's no reason Survivors like David or Jeff or even Yui couldn't take down a handful of the Killer roster. Starting to think that the struggle mechanics need a facelift…
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@100PercentBPMain said:
social media broadcasts every intrusive thought that in medieval times, we'd just keep in our head and forget about it. it's honestly a mind virus.
even just talking about social media legitimatizes it when it should be disregarded as the joke that it is. the human monkey brain is not capable of handling social media. there's a reason it's considered a drug.
@bhvr #deletetheforums 📢
@Pit_Bull_Love said:
Yikes. That's truly disappointing. Am I surprised? Sadly, no. If this is true, I'm sad to be considered part of a community that would do such a nasty thing. It's a joke, even if he/she doesn't like skully, the comment was meant in jest. Grow up and stop trying to ruin someone's life over a video game.
As a peace offering, let's just delete skully from the game.
I was kidding! It was just a joke!
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I skipped release week due to the awful patch, but I'm playing against him now. I don't care for how close the doors spawn to the generators or when they're directly on top of hills, but the doors themselves are nice. More interactive than Demo, Sadako, and Xeno. The hatchets are overkill imo. All of the other issues are just DBD issues. He's not exactly innovative in terms of play and he's very easy to camp/tunnel/slug with. But thankfully he isn't a nightmare by default like Skull Merchant, Chucky, or Ghoul.
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The post-30 bloodwebs for Survivor need a lot of work in general. It isn't p2w so there's no reason for the event item cap to be so low.
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First actually decent David outfit in a long time too. The last rift outfit was a monstrosity. But it's always been in parts like this.
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Skull Merchant mains only proving the stereotypes lmao
At least the developer messages aren't all gross like they were after Trickster dropped.
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@killer_hugs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951863#Comment_3951863
you can pretty much say that as a response to anything. a meaningless response.
I do think we should emphasize fun, but I agree. It's basically a softer way of saying "shut up and be thankful" in light of any complaint.
That being said, I'm not having too rough of a time so far but we'll see. Killer is definitely getting carried more often than not, but that's the base game in general.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
You shouldn't get a free escape just because you brought a perk.
It should be the opposite. The Survivors are typically at their weakest at the end of the trial, so it makes more sense that they'd have more resources available. Having no holds barred play would mean everything but the kitchen sink, but instead we have the opposite.
Also bear in mind that the requirements to trigger DS and OTR are very much the opposite of free escapes, since you have to save the former all trial and be close enough to an open gate to get enough value from it and the latter requires at least one other survivor.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951815#Comment_3951815
ok, remove the leave button. It was always stated to be for emergencies but if people start showing up to the ER for paper cuts then something is wrong.
Still a bad decision, but at this point it's much better than anything they're trying to implement. Although I wonder if they're even able to do that without some red tape being in the way somewhere.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951010#Comment_3951010
It goes both ways.
We say that, but do we really mean it? The only difference is that there's a lot of justification. That harming MMR by backfilling lobbies is fine, that camping/tunneling/slugging at any stage of the trial is a valid strat, etc.
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@Rapid99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951767#Comment_3951767
Yes but you wouldn't need to counterplay 3 genning with tapping because the change they are describing isn't re-establishing 3 genning.
Also what revert to ruin? Ruin is still god awful, they haven't improved it. That's my problem with gen regression, I don't want the change they suggested. I just want actual useful gen regression perks so I can stop using pain res to get actual meaningful gen pressure. Because every other gen perk is useless, unless you run like 3 minimum of them.
Also even with the buff to base kick regression the time they have to waste to kick from you tapping it is not only preventing them from doing a chase and progressing the game but it also means people elsewhere are still just doing the gens.
At one point, it broke when a survivor died. Basically turning it into an early game pressure perk. It doesn't do that anymore but I have no idea when that happened since my eyes glaze over reading the patch notes these days lmao
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951715#Comment_3951715
But this is not a bad change. What's bad was allowing players to think DCing was exceptable for years.
That's too black and white. Even in my ideal scenario, it's not so much that it's acceptable as it is a necessary evil. As long as it's an option in the game, players will use it. If the penalties are going to be so severe, it shouldn't even be an option in the first place (although that still doesn't address issues like server failures which are a real problem and are getting worse).
The very best you can do is mitigate the damage, which the bots and the abandon features do. Changes that lock players out of the queue and force them to wait it out in real time like being sat in the corner are objectively bad. Maybe that has a place in very strict, competitive games where MMR is a very big deal. But if we're being honest, DBD is not that kind of game.
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@Rapid99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951713#Comment_3951713
You are asking me how doing other gens the killer isn't just camping and spreading it out so his spam kicks aren't effective isn't counterplay?
Or are you asking me how gen tapping has no counterplay? Because I mean… it doesn't. The survivor runs up to the gen and completely stops regression by just literally tapping the button, little to no time required. Compared to the killer needing to go through an animation just to even apply the regression.
Unless I'm wrong, base regression on kick does more damage now as a result of the 3 gen changes, so tapping is less effective than it used to be. In addition to that, there's always gen pressure which keeps survivors off of gens (not all at once obviously). And while I'm not an advocate of using perks as an excuse, there are a lot of perks that regress/block gens which also affect tapping. The revert to Ruin comes to mind.
That being said, there is counterplay to 3 genning too. It's just much harder without tapping unless you're coordinated, which is rare.
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Experienced this as well. After toying with it, it only affects the top.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951643#Comment_3951643
Any time after the timer reaches 0 is the starting line for me. If you think killers are getting away with DCing during loading then make that complaint to BHVR.
All of these complaints go to BHVR. I don't blame players for using what's at their disposal, despite how good or bad they are.
I'm just saying that advocating for unhealthy changes in the mirco will have macro consequences.
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@Rapid99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951571#Comment_3951571
Well maybe because one has counterplay and the other doesn't?
How so?
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@gingerGeorge12 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951625#Comment_3951625
My counter argument to the tunnelling argument is that if the killer wants to tunnel they don’t need a UI hook counter to do it and depending how far they go with the base-kit anti tunnel it might not even be worth tunnelling.
That's what I'm thinking. Of course my heart goes out primarily to the Killers that tunnel on accident and would like a mechanic like this to avoid it too.
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They're very weird about licensed sets being linked. DnD is usually the exception, but I'm guessing that's the response you'll get.
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The two major reasons are that more players are coming back so you have a lot of people that just wanna mess around, whether that's more casual or more mean-spirited, and the other being that Survivors are more likely to focus on the event mechanics and are easier to pick off than usual.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951581#Comment_3951581
Yep, I knew exactly where you were coming from.
To make this a killer/survivor is short sighted. I want killers that DC when the exit gates power punished just as much as the survivor that gives up on first hook or tries to "go next" by whatever form it takes now.
And yes it will affect the game, for the better. Weeding out those who agree to a 10 minute match just to quit after 2. Good riddance. I welcome those that actually want to play the game.
It doesn't have to be us vs them at all. If you disproportionally affect one side, it means they'll queue for the other side or leave entirely. Killers typically go next during the match screen and the pre-loading screen, hence the changes were made primarily with Survivor in mind. AFK does affect Killer, but not to the same extent as they're again not the focus (crows being the obvious core of the mechanic). Regardless of anything else, that's enough to push players out of a role that feels micromanaged. Is it not? It seems they've backed off of both of those ideas for now, but that sort of thinking is what leads to real problems.
If you want to play hall monitor and avoid the elephant in the room, then again, you're thinking like BHVR. It'll maintain the high turnover rate, make queues even longer, and the balance will still be all over the place.
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I wouldn't mind it. The argument against it has always been tunneling, but if that's the case it will only exacerbate the need for stronger/viable anti-tunneling mechanics.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951541#Comment_3951541
There's plenty of good reason and I don't believe your issue is truly with false possitives. I thing you are hiding behide that reason in order to leave a match and come back the next day like nothing happened. There's no good reason to have a queue penalty if you never see it.
Correct, I am arguing that. I don't think that the penalty should matter once you're outside of the game. Either way, the player leaves until they come back. If you wait to dole out punishments until they're ready to play, they won't play. That affects queue times. If the punishments favor Killer over Survivor (which to be fair, go next and AFK do affect both but to differing degrees), then the queue gets longer. Then by your suggestion, they're filtered into a separate queue, so the queue gets longer.
You have to employ big picture thinking with these things. Just because it doesn't directly affect you doesn't mean it won't affect you or the game at all.
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It was directly tied to the 3 gen nerf so I don't see why not.
@gingerGeorge12 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951552#Comment_3951552
in what way nerfing it or buffing it?
either way it doesn’t need a change it’s fine as it is
Either having it only activate during the 3 gen or reverting it.
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I'm guessing that gen tapping didn't get the same treatment?
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Probably the best way to nerf SWF would be to add better matchmaking and comms to the game. That would bring them to roughly the same level as solos. The issue is that good matchmaking in DBD is an oxymoron and players, despite shouting to the heavens that this is a PVP game, are terrified of PVP interactions.
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Good to know. 🤙
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951144#Comment_3951144
The go next system was killswitch 6 days ago. You don't need to worry about it. Even so, how does 10 games help? If you are rapidly increasing the penalty through these bugs then 10 games won't feel quick if you keep DCing every other game.
To my point, the amount of 20 is fine if you look how the system works. You only get the penalty timer after gaining a point, not before every game for the next 20 matches. If you happen to gain another point after 10 games the 1st point does not reset from 10 games left to 20. Its a rolling count and you only feel it ehen you leave the match outside normal means.
The ones complaining about this are the ones that want to leave matches they don't like. You won't get sympathy out of me for those players. In fact, I want players with high penalty counts to queue together until the points age out.
You can have sympathy for the player whose game crashes but those are not the majority.
Sure it was killswitched, but were the penalties reverted? Will the system come back and have the same issues? Possibly. My point still stands. There's no good reason to make it so the penalty only goes down while in-game or as slowly as a 20 trial basis. Despite the efforts to make the game competitive, it still has a casual core and long and brutal penalties run counter to that.
Your suggestions would kill the queue, but they're the kinds of things BHVR is interested in listening to now. So it'll probably be a thing eventually.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951104#Comment_3951104
Why is 20 so bad? It's not like you are forced to wait the penalty every one of those 20.
Seriously how often are you quiting matches? I'm guessing every 10 games or so.
With the servers as unstable as they are, and more recently with the go next prevention, they can accumulate totally on accident. Especially when you consider how long 20 trials is. 5 years ago, it wasn't so common.
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I could be wrong, but I've heard that they're tame so that they're friendly across all regions. But I agree that most are really boring and uninteresting.
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Currently waiting for it to be reverted, but we'll see.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951014#Comment_3951014
September of 2020, I believe.
Gotdamn. Yeah it's gonna take a while.
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The game is now so restricted that it feels much older than it actually is. When you take DBDs competitors and even games like Frank Stone into account, there's a lot the game can and should do to freshen things up.
Personally I'd love to see the age old idea of having to find components on the map to repair gens along with a checkpoint system every 25%. Evil Dead, Frank Stone, and Killer Klowns did all of that very well.
I'd like to see more ways to interact with the Killer as well. We don't have to pull weapons on them, but being able to set traps and things of that nature would be really fun. Blast Mine and Chemical Trap were a good start, but they're still too rudimentary.
Now that hatch has been nerfed, alternative means to advance the trial are incredibly important as well. Maybe factor in multiple ways to escape ala Killer Klowns and TCM with better scoring so it doesn't feel selfish or like a waste of time if you're left behind.
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2v8 isn't perfect, but there's a lot of features it employs that could work nicely in the main game. A perk that alerts you when the killer sees your aura would be nice, but I also don't know that BHVR would do it any time soon given the changes they've been making.
I've been saying this for years, but scaling difficulty would be a good idea too. It's way too weak as is in 2v8 because it doesn't function properly as a comeback mechanic, but it is better than nothing.