UndeddJester
UndeddJester
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In my experience, it's harder to keep a survivor on the hook for 60s than it is to get them off... The number of survivors who beeline to the hook and unhook after just 12 seconds to give the killer the option of a free tunnel boggles my mind.
No personally I'm all in favour of changes to buff killers in chase and make them more dangerous, in exchange for making lame strategies like hook camping less effective.
I imagine your less mobile killers will struggle, Pig for example really loves a hook trade... but maybe we can start getting some more buffs for her if her performance dips 🐽🙏
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Very positive change. Great to see the Knights power coming together finally.
Cooldowns look a little generous, I have a feeling a remote pallet break on a 20s cooldown is gonna be pretty nasty... but what matters is the design is now strong. Number tweaks are easy, it's the core idea that was needed, and Knight has that now.
Great stuff. 🤘
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@Atsuka_Anarchy said:
I believe that this thread represents the collective voiced opinions/suggestions of Pig mains. QoL changes that we often hope will one day happen.
The custom FAN MADE Saw/DBD theme is an absolute masterpiece that would be highly appreciated as it’s long overdue. If a fan could make this work so incredibly well, then imagine the theme being officially implemented within the game amongst the classic themes like Myers chase; she’s 1 of 3 last licensed killers (Freddy and Leatherface) WITHOUT a theme.
Having something as simple as “Game Over” from the actress, Shawnee Smith, who embodies Amanda, would absolutely be another great addition. As you already stated, when she on the prowl looking for her target, she’s not saying much.
For her animations, I believe that within the Entity’s realm the chosen killers are imbued with incredible abilities/powers which include strength and durability, so that would make sense in the realm for Mandy to be able to just pick up survivors with ease as she’s Arachno-fueled by the Entity. Though there’s no disagreement here with ANY positive updates on her animation. It’s welcomed!
Her head models could definitely use some resizing, as it looks a bit funky when you try to combine any outfit not with the corresponding pig mask. Mainly being too big or too small (on the anniversary outfit, the other heads look atrocious).Her hands, especially when playing in first person, do look noticeably huge and looks more like hands John Kramer has as Jigsaw on his life-changing escapades. Simply resizing them would remedy this issue.
These changes would he highly welcomed and enjoyed by the Pig community as we clamor for such QoL changes to be implemented within the game (no pun intended 🐷).For her animations, I believe that within the Entity’s realm the chosen killers are imbued with incredible abilities/powers which include strength and durability, so that would make sense in the realm for Mandy to be able to just pick up survivors with ease as she’s Arachno-fueled by the Entity. Though there’s no disagreement here with ANY positive updates on her animation. It’s welcomed!
Psssst... I just want my mechanical hooks! 🤫
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I suppose a good way of looking at it is the shot has the AoE, so if you give the effect off the direct hits as well, it basically allows you to fire at survivors as you please, and if you miss, you've got an AoE to give you a second chance of landing the hit, making using the Unknown braindead and boring to play/face.
Imagine if Huntress hatchets exploded and still hit you, even when she misses... that would seem pretty BS and unfair, and would be exactly what the Unknown would feel like.
With it being only the ground explosion that matters, the Unknown gets to enjoy being a unique ranged killer, having to target terrain near survivors instead of the survivors themselves, giving it unique mindgames and engaging gameplay of its own.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3784420#Comment_3784420
I mean... yes the ability is RNG... but it's predictable RNG, and the survivor side has more information than the Pig herself does, cause the Pig has to guess how many searches have gone by, whereas survivors can actually count for real off the HUD, and known exactly how many searches have been done.
when your experienced as killer as much as i am, I can tell how much time each interaction takes and even predict the time when a generator will pop.
If you do then find them, you then have to catch them quickly to exert the pressure you describe, but you're not that in strong chase, a decent tile can cost a lot of tine, and youre now wasting time on a paused trap timer and letting gens go by.
what. there is no chase, the survivor hears roar and goes down. Only dead hard saves that survivor in that instance and OTR if no gen was touched.
I would also argue Survivors can also consider taking the time to heal on the first unhook, because the Pig cannot commit to pushing you off boxes yet, as she doesn't know her pattern.
if the survivor heals, you can mori them. that's like free extra box search. very dangerous if a trap is active and your trap is 3 or 4.
You could have 1 or 4 searches, so to invest in stopping you getting searches is also a huge gamble for the Pig that can easily backfire and have any pressure she might have had completely erased.
A little trick to using trap is always attempt to interrupt 3rd search because if 3rd search is interrupted but no down, a 4 box key → lead to mori. but say the key is 2 searches then you can deduce that the survivor went to the box and then went to nearest generator from the box search that finished. 1 box searches often means that you can prepare for future head traps to be more proxy camp oriented for the mori similar to what @radiantHero23 does in his game. adaptation to how your reverse traps roll is an important skill for pig. it is not so much of gamble when you know what your doing with said traps.
I have no doubt you are more experienced than me... but that must surely mean you play against some high skilled survivors yes?
I've had games where it can be very hard to put Survivors down efficiently. Like sure if I play vs. a team weaker than me I can probably tunnel perfectly fine... I can catch a survivor not paying attention on a box sure... but Vs. a strong set of survivors, they see me coming miles away, and tunneling a head trapped survivor makes me just a crapper version of Ghost Face does it not?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3784370#Comment_3784370
It is possible with Pig to force the dead on hook player to be the spare player who has to make the risky save, pushing them into your arms? Is this the tunneling you mean?
no. let me draw scenario for you.
The match begins, you down first survivor. 2 generator pop. This survivor has a head trap with 3 searches. You down survivor Player #2. You put a reverse bear trap on them, You hook them.
You notice that survivor #1 still has not removed his traps and is injured. you understand boxes positions and you ambush the survivor who is on his 3rd search. You down him. Hook him. you proxy camp the hook. Survivor #2 takes off the trap(He had 2 trap search). Survivor #3 hook trades, you put reverse bear trap on survivor #3. Now you tunnel the survivor #1, 2 generator are poped and you kill survivor #1.
The reverse bear traps enable you to keep survivor #2 and survivor #3 busy(Slowdown) and allowed you to skip 1 hook-state from survivor #1 while also forcing a tunnel off hook.
The macro around Pig headtraps is quite engaging as survivor to my mind, as long as you respect it, and don't think of it as just RNG bullshit.
In term of the mori, it is rng ****** for survivor. you have no control over pig reverse bear trap ability. it is why some survivor players like @bjorksnas want the ability deleted which isn't exactly fair for the killer but i digress.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3784359#Comment_3784359
I am aware. as i said, it only hides away the problem making it less common since the more casual pigs will not be able to utilize her kit to full potencial.
You notice that survivor #1 still has not removed his traps and is injured. you understand boxes positions and you ambush the survivor who is on his 3rd search. You down him. Hook him. you proxy camp the hook.
OK, that scenario is possible, but it's a gamble for the Pig, and is entirely dependent on the success of your chases, the map and successfully predicting the location of the head trapped survivor. Tunneling is an advantage in this scenario if you can do it sure, but it certainly not a rule that this is always your best course of action.
You don't know exactly where that survivor is unless you take perks to find them, and your traversal time is not insignificant... and you don't have time to be wrong… You can try to intuit/guess where they are, but you are Pig, not Blight, you have low map mobility, especially if you're relying on ambush/crouch to catch the survivor unaware. Every second counts on Pig, and it requires time investment from you to find that survivor. If you do then find them, you then have to catch them quickly to exert the pressure you describe, but you're not that strong in chase, a decent tile can cost a lot of time, and youre now wasting time on a paused trap timer and letting gens go by. This also doesn't account for the fact the survivor can easily have OTR or Decisive Strike, which isn't disabled by Jigsaw boxes, or perks like Dead Hard... all of these perks are devastating for Pig, as she pauses the timer on chase and can lose a crap tonne of distance. It's a dangerous gamble to play this way.
I would also argue Survivors can also consider taking the time to heal on the first unhook, because the Pig cannot commit to pushing you off boxes yet, as she doesn't know her pattern. This is especially true with perk like We'll Make It or Resurgence in play, and I'd even consider using a medkit with a syringe that can make being injured a non issue... You could have 1 or 4 searches, so to invest in stopping you getting searches is also a huge gamble for the Pig that can easily backfire and have any pressure she might have had completely erased.
In term of the mori, it is rng ****** for survivor. you have no control over pig reverse bear trap ability.
I mean... yes the ability is RNG... but it's predictable RNG, and the survivor side has more information than the Pig herself does, cause the Pig has to guess how many searches have gone by, whereas survivors can actually count for real off the HUD, and known exactly how many searches have been done.
Again your team can 99 gens to give even just 15s for you to get a heal in/get a headstart... there's plenty of things survivors can do Vs. Pig Traps... if noone does them, that's not really a problem with the Pig's design, but again, more a lack of respect for Pig traps on the Survivor side.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3784329#Comment_3784329
Tunneling as pig is bad and is almost never the optimal playstyle. Spreading traps as fast as possible is in most cases the better play due to the game being slowed down more. If you tunnel one survivor and the others are unoccupied, they will just push through gens while you get youor one kill. Maybe 2 in end game.
Not what i said. I did not say tunneling is most optimal play-style. I said that her reverse bear traps encourages tunneling to be more effective. In other words, it enables tunneling to be more powerful. Slugging and hook trading is how you spread your traps as pig. Tunneling is how you capitalize off your traps. your suppose to ambush survivors that search boxes and those survivor tend to be survivors closer to death hook. The other way to use your traps is the mori.
If you find it cheap or not is your opinion. I personally like the strategic aspect of the pig. Its what makes her unique. Her power lies less in mechanical skill but in strategic skill expression. I personally dont care if a survivor applauds me for my gameplay.
notice that i am talking from perceptive of the survivor. I do not think there are many survivor main that enjoys being outskilled by pig's reverse bear trap mori. it is easily one of the most infuriating ways to die as survivor. Pig's traps are not fun for survivor. they might be fun for you as killer but they're not interactive for survivor.
I had 1-3-4-4. They didnt play around it. Simple as that
you can't play around it. that is my issue with pig. you can only minimize losses.
Not what i said. I did not say tunneling is most optimal play-style. I said that her reverse bear traps encourages tunneling to be more effective. In other words, it enables tunneling to be more powerful.
Trying to understand your point, but I have to say I'm a little lost, not necessity debunking your point, just struggling to understand it. I watched numerous Pig guides while learning her, and tunneling headtrapped survivors is something commonly not recommended anywhere. It is also not particularly effective in my experience. If you're going after survivors who are doing their head traps, you're not making use of the slowdown those head traps give you to keep survivors off gens. This means that tunneling is less effective not more?
The scenario you want as Pig is to identify the headtrap pattern, and then apply pressure around that pattern. Sometimes the way to get that pressure might be tunneling, sure but its not a defacto rule in my experience. Ideally you always want a trap active at all times, you always want another trap lined up, and you want pressure so that survivors can't take the time to heal, do gens, make hooks saves, and search boxes; you want them to yield on something. It is possible with Pig to force the dead on hook player to be the spare player who has to make the risky save, pushing them into your arms? Is this the tunneling you mean?
Anyway this right time to apply pressure is why when 30s added to her RBT timer was proposed in the PTB, us Pig mains fought back hard, because that extra time removes this ability to apply pressure at the right time...
showcased for how easy it is to do against an above average comp team on garden of joy, no less which is fairely survivor sided.
In radiant's game, there was a player (Kate I think) doing headtraps on the 1,3,4,4 pattern, a player (David) on hook, a player (I dunno Zarina?) slugged under pallet and Nightlite trying to save the slugged player. Radiant knew in this scenario time is on his side, not the survivors side. By trying to save the slug, NL made it so the Kate had to let David go to second stage, or work on their trap. They chose the former (not realising the 1344 pattern), and that ultimately cost them too much time and killed them. This is what gave radiant the pressure needed to close out the game. (This was my observation/conclusion independently while I was watching the game, which I then discussed with radiant afterwards to learn off the master himself 😁. I was quite pleased when Radiant confirmed he had the same thought process himself in the game. 😄 )
notice that i am talking from perceptive of the survivor. I do not think there are many survivor main that enjoys being outskilled by pig's reverse bear trap mori. it is easily one of the most infuriating ways to die as survivor. Pig's traps are not fun for survivor.
You are right, survivor mains don't like it, but I believe that is because they don't respect the head traps, and see it purely as rng, and ignore the pattern, which I can't blame them, it's something you only really focus on if you play Pig regularly.
When I play survivor I pay attention to the time taken for my teammates to remove traps, the same way I pay attention as the Pig herself. If it is quick, I know that we're in a potential 1344 or 2244 pattern. These points are good habits in general, but are especially important in these kinds of scenarios: -
- If I can afford to, I 99 gens as long as I can to give the headtrapped survivor a head start.
- If I'm in chase, I might be a little more liberal with pallet use to try and ensure a gen is completed before I get a trap on my head.
- If headtrapped myself I don't take the time to heal or go for risky unhooks/gen completions in these scenarios, as I know time is not on my side. I may even deliberately give up a hook stage from chase in the corner of the map instead of wasting time trying to sneak it.
- I prioritise boxes in areas with already completed generators so that a Pig who does pressure me is getting the least value possible from doing so.
The macro around Pig headtraps is quite engaging as survivor to my mind, as long as you respect it, and don't think of it as just RNG bullshit.
What you need to remember is a good Pig will be watching for good headtrap patterns, and if the Pig identifies a good pattern, you need to account for it and react accordingly.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3784203#Comment_3784203
Do you remember when the Daily Rituals were doubled last week?
I took a quick Pig 🐷 break from 2v8 to do what The Entity asked of me...
Actual footage from the Survivor perspective:
I might also suggest Game Afoot instead of Lightborn, let's the Rancor train keep going 😉
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3784230#Comment_3784230
it is not abusing if it is in the game. they could easily fix interaction by making that boxes keep their progression after being interrupted with linger time like 15 seconds then progress decays if player doesn't finish search but they have not done that.
that means that scream builds are intended for pig. They got nerfed awhile back with ultimate weapon and box aura changes.
Fair point, screams are intended, though I would be against the idea of making this scream build the strongest build upon her, which I'd be worried would be one the case with this change.
The part of Amanda's design I like most is she is naturally encouraged to not tunnel a survivor out. Many killers can and do tunnel, whereas Pig's whole game is about trying to maintain a 3vs1 to apply pressure.
@Royval said:
they already can get the trap off in one search do this and pig immediately becomes an actual rewarding killer it’s not lore like at all for people to be able to freely run around in traps it looks ridiculous this would also make her iri useful.
Regarding the OP:
I actually think it reduces her slowdown potential as there is no reason not to just pop gens as fast as possible, and see who gets their trap off. It encourages nastier playstyles with scream perks or crawl tunneling, since survivors can't really afford to stop and try and heal ever, so RBT tunnel Pig is actually more viable. She'd be stronger, but disliked.
It also brings back end game Pig, where she can put survivors in lose/lose situations by activating traps after the gates have opened. 2 survivors with traps and EGC going? 1 survivor with a headtrap and the hatch closed? With Scream perks? Basically guaranteed dead. I think it makes her stronger for sure, but it makes her more obnoxious to play against.
I personally think her head traps also becomes more 1 dimensional. I don't play like this, but if a trap isn't active, you probably should tunnel cause you shouldn't allow the survivor to get a head start on their searches. Not having that potential 4 box trap reduces your pressure significantly.... if they just activate immediately, then we lose that interaction where we're trying to beat the gen to the punch/can deliberately decide to let a gen go to activate the traps, and I would miss that...
Though I suppose there is decision making for "do I use this trap now, or do I save the trap for when gates are powered?"
@Bravobro said:
Thats Not the Problem. The Problem is that you need More traps. The survivor musst beginn with a Trap on the head ,2 of them IS the best way? And you have the Rest of the traps for the late and mid game
More headtraps would be fun... though you'd definitely need a reshuffle of the power of RBTs.
Having 4 traps and 1 survivor trapped with a 5th trap at the start would reduce her reliance on her first chase going well... though I can see "haven't earned that head trap" arguments, and ofc soloQ already has trouble with Pig... so tough to say how that'd be received.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783929#Comment_3783929
You call it part of the game, yet you think it is good that they are disabled for part of the game. Why is it still part of the game for the Killer, but not part of the game for the Survivors?
(I dont think we will reach a conclusion, so I am happy to agree to disagree)
I guess we will have to agree to disagree, but the reason I say it's fine for these perks to disable is because they are powerful perks with a very strong effect. In the early mid game they greatly help in reaching the end game, but there are multiple facets to the fight over gens in the early and mid game, so the perk isn't out and out OP throughout the mid game.
In the end game, running to the gate is the only part of the game left, and these effects are far too strong for that objective, especially when survivors already have plenty of tools, such as body blocks, flashlights, sabo saves, etc, etc that the killer has to get through... not mentioned the fact is there are potentially 4 of them in play, not just 1...
Borrowed Time is fine, cause the effect isn't as strong throughout the game, and in end game it's not a guaranteed escape.
Coming back for an unhook for the survivor team is a decision the survivor team makes, knowing the risks. They can take a safe 3 man out, or they can play risky and go for the 4 man out. If you allow these perks with effects that make the risk a moot point, you make the game more boring. Everyone just runs OTR, like they did for Adrenaline.
Adrenaline has more argument for it's strength, as its a one time use specifically at end game... but the guaranteed escape there is still a valid argument even against that... so for DS and OTR, there is absolutely no argument at all... their effects are far too powerful to be even considered remotely fair.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783922#Comment_3783922
Man²…
The thing is, Killers think that they deserve this Kill in Endgame because there is "nothing they can do". While they had the full game to kill all 4 Survivors. This is my point - do you really deserve that kill if you failed already for roughly the whole game?
And yes, the Hatch is the necessary evil, because games need a way to end, whether it is with a Hatch Escape or starting the EGC when Hatch is closed. While guaranteed Kills in Endgame are not a necessary evil, since the game at least ends (regardless if the Killer got any Kills or not).
But this where your argument falls down, because even without DS and OTR, it's not a guaranteed kill. It's still entirely possible for all of the survivors to escape. We still have a game.
With what you want, there is no game... you want the killer to basically stand in the corner once the gates are powered and admit defeat.
As I said alraedy, the objective for survivor is to cross the line... not complete the gens. The killer hasn't "lost" until the survibors are over the line. As such, you shouldn't have perks that guarantee you cross the line with no counterplay the killer can employ.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783908#Comment_3783908
Man, you call me biased while I even wrote before that I am indifferent on that. I even said that I understand why the changes were made, yet I still think that if a Killer is failing all game they should not get a guaranteed pity Kill. (And before someone comes around - I also consider Hatch a pity Escape, but a necessary evil)
So why is the killer's "pity kill" not a necessary evil?
I disagree with the notion its a "pity kill" to start with, the killer caught this survivor. If the survivors want to save them, there needs to risk attached to it... otherwise its a pity escape... the Killer might as well not bother hooking...
Like I defend both killer and survivor, but when you say something like "hatch is a necessary evil, but survivors should have second chance perks to guarantee their escape cause the killer has already lost", it's hard not to call you biased...
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783752#Comment_3783752
A pity escape after completing the objective, soso…
If those Perks dont work, the Kill is basically guaranteed, unless the Killer plays really badly. And for some reason Killer players think they deserve a Kill, because it is Endgame.
There is a saying of "It ain't over until it's over".
Repairing generators is not the survivor objective. Until the survivors cross the gate exit line, or the remaining survivors are dead, the game isn't over.
The reason for DS and OTR being disabled in the end game is to make it so there is still a game to play. It's the same reason that hatch exists when the killer has killed all but 1 survivor with multiple gens still to do. It's also the reason why closing the hatch powers the exit gates. If it didn't, there is no point in playing on, the game is over and the survivor might as well just give themselves up.
If you give survivors DS and OTR in end game, it is literally impossible for most killers to defend their last hook. Survivors just trade hits for the unhook, and the unhooked player body blocks for everyone else as you all hold W to the exit. Allowing DS and OTR in end game means there is basically no point in playing further once the gates are open. It's the same reason Adrenaline was nerfed, there is no game to play if a full survivor escape cannot be stopped.
It's times like this where your bias tends to undermine any credibility your argument might have had. You're basically saying it's OK for survivors to have multiple chances to escape via hatch, gates being powered on hatch close, and have tonnes of second chance perks at all times that can make it a sure fire escape once the gates are powered... but killers have only one chance to win, and if the gates are powered then the killer should always lose...
I shouldnt need to tell you that if the survivors objective is to escape, having something that basically guarantees an escape is not good game design.
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I feel like Blight is fine now... he's quite fair; strong but with meaningful counter play, and generslly engaging snd fun to face. I don't think he needs any more nerfs tbh.
Nurse is Nurse... I don't think resetting her tokens on a stun is unreasonable... as oppressive as an amazing Nurse is, I feel like this would give high skilled players a meaningful set of perks/strategies against her. People who could time pallet stuns, get flashlight saves, use Head On, and ofc Decisive Strike would be actually impactful against her rather than giving you 4 seconds before you're just dead.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783351#Comment_3783351
60% killrate IS the fun and fair experience in DBD, due to the "asymmetry" nature of much easier throwing on survivor's side
Any matches with a throwing survivors should pretty much guarantee a 4k, which means KR should always be higher than 50/50, and apparently devs decided to set 60% as a sweat spot
I know you meant "sweet spot"...
But the idea of BHVR seeking a "sweat spot" just amuses me xD
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If Appraisal had an 80% chest opening speed as well as its rummage speed... that'd be pretty sick in conjuction with Lara's new perk...
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As someone with a similar number of hours, the thing that sticks out to me most is survivor actions. Most notable the DCs/AFKs and SoH players. No game can be fun when people on your team don't play, and why I advocate for harsher penalties to get rid of these players. If you aren't having fun, stop ruining games for everyone else. It's that easy.
The game with the Wraith slugging everyone, and general games like it are very rare. I'm not saying they don't happen, not they are certainly but the norm. I can easily withstand a rough game every now and again when someone is being a complete jerk if it weren't for survibors also making soloQ so rage inducing.
With regards to tunneling and camping, and the general bad experiences with SoloQ, what sticks out to me constantly as a survivor is the amount of things survivors give killers for free. I see so many survivors do the following: -
- Let go of gens the second someone gets hooked like moths to a flame, regardless of where the hook is and losing all pressure. Makes camping viable.
- After being found by the killer on the way to hook, continue to run towards/loop near the hook... or even worse beeline to unhook the survivor when the killer is clearly chasing them. Makes camping/tunnelling/slugging viable.
- Sit crouching nearby the looper for pallet/flashlight saves that can even take 80s for the looper to go down where they are doing nothing... only to miss the save anyway. Makes tunneling/slugging viable.
- Conversely you have the players (usually with Distortion) hiding when in the killers TR, even when someone else is in chase, not doing gens and not moving to unhook. Instead they do nothing, the player who is injured/has already lost a hookstage has to stop repairing gens and has to run for the unhook... or if they can't see them hiding, thinks they're going for the unhook, only to see them start repairing again moments before the hooked player loses a hookstage. Makes camping and tunneling viable.
- Completing all the safe gens at the start of the match, usually on one side of the map. This creates 3-gens and allows the killer to hook within the 3-gen and force all of the above.
I rarely see hard-core tunneling in games where survivors don't gift it to the killer. I see far more often so many survivors who don't understand basic action economy in DBD. I realise there is a contradiction above with distortion, but to elaborate would make that even more wordy. The point is so many survivors do not pay attention to their HUD, think about the game state and react to what is going on in the game...
The best thing survivors can do is split up and apply simultaneous pressure, and when you get players that understand that, you can create a lot of problems for the killer, even without great looping...
However some people just do not understand that you have to constantly force the killer to make suboptimal decisions. If you do any of the above, you are not making the killer have to decide anything, you are making it easy for him.
Even just hold W and sprinting into the corner when you're in a deadzone is forcing the killer to make a suboptimal decision, and is often the best choice when you've got no other safety to use.
I play survivor about 60% of the time now, and I get so much more annoyed at my fellow survivors than anything the killer is doing.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782917#Comment_3782917
Radagon being my 3rd favorite boss, I can tell, that he definitely is a boss, where a complete aggressive playstyle gives 100% payoff.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782938#Comment_3782938
I feel Elden Beast drags the final booss down for me a lot. Radagon would have been fine. Just give him a second phase or a bigger health bar. Then make Elden Beast an optional final - final boss.
The real terror awaits you in the dlc. The final boss there is a true nightmare.
This is true, I remember when fighting Radagon I was thinking, while Radagon has some cheap elements to his moveset, most of it is pretty fair. It kinda got a pass from me because it was the final boss, and overall a good fight.
Then Elden Beast happened and my brain blew a gasket... I was so mad xD
Also Yikes 😶😶😶😶😶😶😶
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@Vanishlord said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782546#Comment_3782546
For me I think so far Radagon is the monster since he drains all my resources and gets my mimic low or kills it but I googled it and I haven't got Elden beast low enough to see elden stars yet. The lowest I have gotten him is 50. Also just before I went away I levelled up and now kill Radagon every time. Is Elden stars that bad? The beast is really annoying all ready since my mimic and most of my flasks are gone.
Elden Stars isn't likely to kill you itself. It's damage is low, the problem is it overloads your senses and distracts you.
You can't hear much with it nearby, and it's very visually distracting. The only challenge of it really is accepting that it'll hit you and ignoring it to ensure you dodge any of the other attacks Elden Beast throws properly.
I also agree Radagon can be a pain. That lightning teleport of his "Gives me conniptions"
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@Seraphor said:
Yeah, disappointed that this 'collection' is just one skin for a new character.
I'd love to get some more characters from Alien/s, as well as Amanda Ripley.
Amanda Ripley was such a cool character, but Isolation unfortunately made the fatal mistake a lot of horror makes...
Spoiler incoming:
It took away our hope... there is a reason why there is often a "last girl" or "sole survivor" in horror, and it's because in order for viewers to stay invested, we have to have hope, but more than that we need a reason to remain connected to the story.
The key in horror is to dangle hope in front and then keep snatching it away so the nightmare can continue, and even when the story ends it is more effective to keep you the viewer unsure that the nightmare is truly over, and invested in what the future might bring.
Is Nancy free of Kruegar's Nightmares?
Is Laurie finally safe from Michael?
Is Jason truly dead in Ft13thp2, and if not will he hunt Ginny for impersonating his mother?
Has Hoffman truly survived and avoided being tested in SAW 3?
If you kill off everyone, then there is nothing to hold our investment in the story and keep talking about it, and no reason to continue to care.
Alien works because Ripley makes it to her shuttle, and despite being lost in space, she is alive. We remain invested in the mystery of what the future holds.
Alien 3 fails quite spectacularly, because it first kills off Newt and Hicks, and puts Ripley in a no hope situation that she can't escape. We can't see a way out, and when the film finally reveals there is no way out, we cease to care. Ripley just dies. If you modify this story by having Newt survive, and Ripley is trying to defend her the whole way through, have everything otherwise plays out exactly the same, but then Newt is taken off the planet by the corporation and survives, we're still invested in the story, and suddenly the film is great.
In Alien Isolation, it's much better than 3, because we believe we can escape, but its pretty hopeless... but since she gets blown out into space at the end, when she's already in a pretty hopeless situation, it's kinda like..."Oh... OK then... guess we just die...".
Horror isn't meant to have happy endings, but cutting off all threads is never the most effective way to have horror. You need to keep some form of hope alive for horror to be effective.... and AI unfortunately cuts off all of its threads, which is why it leaves a sour taste in a lot of people mouths.
An alternative ending for say a second playthrough, or beating hard or whatever, would have been very welcome to this game
All that said, Amanda Ripley would be a great edition, cause the game is for the most part very good, and we are invested in her pretty much throughout.
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@Nightram said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782454#Comment_3782454
We all know we can't google anything related to a game because of those rabbit holes.
But my idea isn't about sexualizing.
I know you know. But other readers can misunderstand and think this would be a bad idea.
Never trust the internet. Even how innocent your search may be.
Imagine how fun your main could switch gender. If you are an original dbd character mainer.
Fair... 😏😏😏
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Hudson legendary?
Game Over man! Game Over!!!
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@ReverseVelocity said:
I think a better idea would be to just remove the hook requirement. 50% break speed is kinda nutty but would be funny to see.
I see potential nasty Piggy things with that ^🐽^
50% pallet break would be nutty... that seems a pretty nice buff in exchange for a hook...
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@Science_Guy said:
It's not really bias. Killers with weird models often take a long time to get skins. Singularity dropped in the middle of 2023 didn't get a post-release store skin until the beginning of this year. Knight still doesn't have that many skins, and two of his are fairly recent. Besides, Unknown launching with green rarity skins means he already had a better start than either of those two. Hardly neglected when you look at how they treat many other killers.
Not to mention, Singu got some.pretty badass skins when they did arrive.
I think there is more creative challenge for the more unusual killers. Like Skull Merchant is relatively normal, so it's quite easy for her, make a cool looking outfit, bit of a creepy mask, job done.
Trying to build a whole new thematic body from the ground up on Singu that looks cool/people will wanna buy? Bit more of a challenge.
Unknown has a very strange look, that is more difficult to create something unique and interesting for. There are plenty of ideas of victims bodies you can never exhaust, but how much variety does it really offer? You can't easily do something creative like Pig suit Hillbilly, Jack o Lanturn Trapper, Babayaga Huntress. Frostbite/Burned Unknown might be cool now I think of it 🤔
Though ofc, not to mention there were those trying to cancel Unknown because a few morons were targeting and trolling trans streamers with that skin combination... while I sit in the camp of "giving attention to those idiots is what they want, just ignore them", BHVR also have to be mindful of that.
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@Nightram said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3782310#Comment_3782310
So true! Hahah female Jeff of all things. Jeffina xD
Male hag would look awesome!
Female doctor would be awesome! And male plague would be interesting. Even a male nurse.
As for survivors. I want male Claudette and female Jake park. Female david king xD
Female David King would be amazing 🤣🤣🤣
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Just want you say... anyone googling as a result of this discussion... be careful…
There is some cool art out there... but... there are numerous rabbit holes you can very quickly fall down if you aren't paying attention...
I somehow wound up in 4 year old threads about Trapper/Meg and Hillbilly/Claudette being shipped 🤣🤣🤣
... the other rabbit hole I probably shouldn't mention xD
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I always enjoyed the art reimagining characters as genswapped versions of themselves.
A female Trapper or Hillbilly would be fun to see... Male Hag could lead to some cool designs…
Be curious to see if a Male Skull Merchant was still rocking that walk... xD
Female Jeff might be a contender for my new main...
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I think the AFC during End Game collapse isn't needed, the killer has nothing else to defend at that point and puts them in a lose/lose situation. Coming back for the save should always be dangerous for altruistic survivors.
Otherwise I think this is a solid change, giving a decent anti-camp perk to the general perk pool.
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I did notice a shift in my games getting harder then easier again admittedly... I wondered if it was just me 😅
My meme builds were kinda getting stomped... now they're not 😶😶😶
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Actually this is interesting cause this is not an easy thing to define at all, cause it's not a simple modifier or percentage. I was trying to work out how it works when writing this suggestion:
@UndeddJester said:
Why rework chests?
Chests are something that I definitely believe should be in DBD... they allow clutch moments in SoloQ, such as finding a medkit to heal yourself before heading to gate, or finding a key to get out through hatch when all other options are exhausted... however the inescapable truth is that 99% of the time, taking the time to find and search one is a throw. They take too much time to find, too long to open, and the items are randomised, with random rarity and no add-ons, making the rewards for doing chests just not worth the effort.
Goal: Can they ever be meta?
The simple answer is no... not really. The time investment is almost never worth it compared to just doing gens in normal situations… this is a fact that would be almost impossible to change. Doing your objective will always be better than searching for an item to aid in doing your objective...
There is however one niche that chests can potentially fill... allowing you to hide your build in the lobby from the killer, and instead pull your item from a chest in the trial. With the prevalence of perks like Corrupt Intervention, Dead Man's Switch, Grim Embrace, Deadlock, having this niche is not as pathetic as it seems at first, but only if building for a loot set up was actually reliable and not too costly on time. This idea will be the goal of our rework.
For reference
- Unlocking chests takes 10 seconds at base.
- There are 4 tiers of item looting: Base, Plunderer's Instinct Tier 1, Plunderer's Instinct Tier 2, Plunderer's Instinct Tier 3.
- Chances of items looted from chests is set by rarity. From playtest data: 43% brown(2 items), 33% yellow(3), 16% green(6), 5% purple(5), 2% iri(2).
- Chances of items looted from chests with tier 3 Plunderer's Instinct from playtest data: 14% brown (2), 18% yellow(3), 22% green (6), 31% purple(5), 15% iri(2).
Proposed Luck Changes
- Luck no longer affects unhook chances.
- Luck now instead affects item rarity in chests.
- Luck has 4 tiers identical to the current effects of the tiers of Plunderer's Instinct, that can be raised or lowered by perks/effects.
- Items from chests have a 50% chance of having no add-ons, 50% chance to have 1 add-on, and a 0% chance of having 2 add-ons. Denoted as such:
- 0 = 50% 1 = 50%, 2 = 0% - Luck also affects the rarity of add-ons looted from chests, based on your current luck tier and identical to the tiers provided by Plunderer's Intinct.
Perks Reworks
Ace in the Hole
- Increases search speed of chests by 50/100/150% (6.67/5/4s).
- Items discovered via any means gain an addative 50% chance of having add ons.
- 0 = 0% 1 = 50%, 2 = 50% - Raises Luck by 1 tier.
Appraisal
- Unlocks the ability to rummage, no tokens, limited to once per chest.
- Rummaging through chests is now 50/100/150% faster (6.667/5/4s).
- Items and add-ons pulled are affected by Luck.
- Raises Luck by 1 tier.
Up The Ante
- Raises Luck by 3 tiers.
- Whenever searching or rummaging a chest, the item and any addons attached automatically go up an additional rarity tier (if it is able).
- Mad Cap Idea I'm throwing in for fun/giggles: If a maximum tier item is found, a special "Entity Essence Embued Item" (denoted by a black/orange background, and an orange glow on the item itself), which has the same properties as the top tier item, with an additional bonus on a select stats…. e.g.
- key duration +6s
- map range +2m / duration +5s
- flashlight increased aim accuracy +25%
- medkit +6 charges
- toolbox sabo speed + 25% (alex variant)
- toolbox +6 charges (engineer variant).
This item can be escaped with (the only way to acquire one)! Would be a fun/goofy thing for survivors to try for ^^
Plunderer's Instinct
- The auras of objects are revealed to you within 16/24/32m, including chests, items in chests or items dropped in the environment.
- Press the active ability button to consume an item in range (including flashbangs and expired items) to recharge 10/20/30% of your current item.
- Raises luck by 2 tiers.
Pharmacy
This perk activates whenever you are injured. While active:
- Auras of opened and unopened chests are revealed to you within 24m.
- Unlocks the ability to rummage, limited to once per chest.
- Searching/rummaging a chest guarantees a Medkit.
- Raises Luck by 2 tiers.
This perk deactivates for the rest of the trial after successfully searching/rummaging for a medkit while the perk is active.
Residual Manifest
- The first time searching/rummaging a chest guarantees a flashlight.
- After a successful killer blind, the killer suffers from the blindness status effect for 20/25/30 seconds.
- Raises Luck by 1 tier.
Scavenger
While holding a depleted toolbox Scavenger activates:
- Succeeding a Great repairing skillcheck grants 1 token, up to a max of 5 tokens.
- Unlocks the rummage action.
- Instead of granting an item, completing the rummage action in a chest will consume all tokens and replenish 5/15/30/60/100% of the toolbox.
When searching a chest for the first time without an item, Scavenger guarantees a Toolbox.
Slippery Meat
- The anti-camp killer detection range is increased by 8m.
- Charges 10% faster.
Dramaturgy
The item acquisition effect is changed to:
- Temporarily raises luck by 2, and any item acquired through Dramaturgy has an additional 25% chance to have an add on and is automatically increase by 1 rarity tier.
- 0 = 25% 1 = 50%, 2 = 25%.
- 0 = 0% 1 = 25% 2 = 75% with Ace in the Hole.
Offering Changes
Honestly we could do anything here. There are a lot of them, and they are all dedicated to self-unhook attempts… so these really need an overhaul. They are all luck themed and that "ward off evil" type thing… but if I just throw random stuff at them of top of my head…
- Chalk Pouch - All item chests start the trial 10% unlocked.
- Cream Chalk Pouch - All item chests start the trial 20% unlocked.
- Ivory Chalk Pouch - All item chests start the trial 30% unlocked.
- Salt Pouch - Items looted from chests gain and addative 5% chance of having add-ons
- 0 = 45% 1 = 50%, 2 = 5% base.
- 0 = 20% 1 = 50% 2 = 30% with Dramaturgy.
- 0 = 0% 1 = 45% 2 = 55% with Ace in the Hole.
- 0 = 0% 1 = 20% 2 = 80% with Dramaturgy and Ace In The Hole. - Black Salt Statuette - Items looted from chests gain an addative 10% chance of having add-ons
- 0 = 40% 1 = 50% 2 = 10% base.
- 0 = 15% 1 = 50% 2 = 35% with Dramaturgy.
- 0 = 0% 1 = 40% 2 = 60% with Ace in the Hole.
- 0 = 0% 1 = 15% 2 = 85% with Dramaturgy and Ace In The Hole. - Vigo's Jar of Salty Lips - Items looted from chests gain an addative 20% chance of having add-ons
- 0 = 30% 1 = 50%, 2 = 20% base.
- 0 = 5% 1 = 50% 2 = 45% with Dramaturgy.
- 0 = 0% 1 = 30% 2 = 70% with Ace in the Hole.
- 0 = 0% 1 = 5% 2 = 95% with Dramaturgy and Ace In The Hole.
These don't stack, the highest wins out. Could probably do something more interesting… but seriously what can be done with these really? :S
Conclusion
As stated before, this would not make chest builds meta… but they would at least have a niche, where survivors could grab items from chests as a means of circumventing killers taking hard counters to their builds, such as Lightborn or Franklin's.
Most builds would be pretty functional with a combination of any of item grabbing perks, in conjunction with any of the luck boosting perks, granting a decent chance of getting reasonably strong items. With Dramaturgy, Ace in the hole, and Appraisal all providing options for faster chest work, it makes them not a complete throw to use.
Builds could include: -
- A self heal build using Pharmacy and Ace in the Hole, maybe to try for a stypic or syringes and otherwise be able to get 2 medkits into a game consistently.
- A flashlight build with Residual Manifest and Ace in the Hole to grab a strong flashlight early and/or Plunderer's Instinct to be able to top it up.
- Scavenger and Plunderer's Instinct to line up a chest with an item then consume it if you're struggling for stacks. Can also consider appraisal for faster rummages. (This change also makes Scavenger a little less difficult to get value from if you can find chests promptly).
- Plunderer's Instinct With Appraisal to farm for charges on your item.
- Any of the above with Up the Ante if you want a specific item of high rarity.
- A pure looter build using Up the Ante and Ace in the Hole to get some kind of strong item if you want to roll the dice (very on brand for Ace).
- The pure madness of a Dramaturgy, Ace in the Hole, Up the Ante… yes… Dramaturgy and Up the Ante would stack their individual items rarity increases…. mother of God O.o
I feel like this would be my best shot at getting chests to not be a complete waste of time, and retain a somewhat meaningful purpose within the game. The fact you can reliably get decent items with these perks smuggled into the trial without a chance for the killer to counter, is offset by the fact you're not in perfect control of exactly what you get, and it otherwise leaves the chests as something you probably shouldn't do without a specific idea in mind.
If you read all this… have a cookie 🍪 cause Jeez… this was long. 😴
I was basing my calculations off of this wiki article:
Which gets its numbers specifically from this reddit article:
The problem is there is no nice easy value you can assign to this mechanism (or if there is it requires good stats maths knowledge to understand/derive meaning).
As a programmer myself, when thinking of an implementation, I would probably do this with just a lookup table rather than having to calculate anything.
I THINK, at tier 3, basically every single item has an equal chance of being pulled. The numbers in the reddit thread aren't large enough to account for statistical error, so I'd say at t3 you have roughly a 5.55% chance of each item being pulled....
I can't prove that, but thats my occams razor guess...
But yeah, that's why it is vague... it is not a nice neat straight forward value you are sliding up and down, there is likely quite a complex and hacky solution to this under the hood 😁
In my own suggestion I eventually got sick of trying to work it out, and just additively modified the chance values for different luck tiers for this things like Open Handed xD
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@Mandy said:
It should be at some point today.
Compensation?
Fair play... Thankyou very much!... That's a very nice surprise.
I was expecting nothing for a server outage 😅
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@Vanishlord said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781876#Comment_3781876
Yes that's where I have torrent the problem is I am a melee build and my mimic is dead, I have very few flasks. It is a terribly designed boss fight in my opinionbut maybe it is just me because all I hear is about Malenia who still took me 15 attempts but this boss has taken over 25.
I whole heartedly agree. Malenia is the greatest From Software fight ever imo (DLC pending).
Elden Beast is crap. I rage quit for like 2 months after fighting that thing cause I was so annoyed by it. It wasn't too hard, it just annoyed me that much. I then beat it with a friend to finish the game, and now I spitefully sign in to Elden Ring every now and again and help other players beat it.
I know its move set back to front now... it never gets better as a fight, it sucks, and I must have beaten it over 100 times now.
The only times it's remotely fun is when it gets into its close range attack loops and doesn't dive away.
Ofc it's hard programmed to use the ground explosion thing, which once you know to jump over the rings, is boring AF and just a time sync.
Elsen Stars is by far the most annoying, cause you can't really dodge it actively, you just have to run and eat free hits, basically ignoring it as best you can and watch what EB is doing.
I have enjoyed sending it to the Gulag many times 😣
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@Sandt1985 said:
Springtrap's killer name must be "The Attraction" or we riot!
She's dead though, long before Afton became Springtrap.
Unless you mean bring her as a survivor in one of her animatronic forms, when can the Entity interject to grab both of them?
EDIT: Mind you, upon a further look, I don't know the novels at all... and it seems to throw everything out of whack 😶😶😶😶
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@danielmaster87 said:
Make Freddy base skin. Everyone else as cosmetics. It's the only way.
Has to be Springtrap, after FNAF: Security Breach made Freddy Fazbear your friend, helping you escape throughout the games; and the fact Freddy is inhabited by the child spirit of Evan, Afton's son, there is no way he can be the main antagonist.
The only character that has any unquestionable murderous intent that may prove useful to the Entity is Springtrap...
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@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781878#Comment_3781878
But there's no way for us to know how often these things occur. We get very little info from the devs, and there's so many ways that kill rates can be an inaccurate display of a character's strength. So if we have no real way of knowing the effect on the game overall, then surely it makes more sense to abstain, rather than state that one type of interaction is throwing off the stats in a major way.
I also think that kill rates are not a great reflection of killer strength, but I can't say what thing is throwing the data off the most, as there's no way to actually know.
When I say bots, I mean the players that pre-programme commands for their killer and just leave the game running. Like when you see a Doctor just spamming power and running around into walls.
Ohhh I getcha, killer farm bots.
This is true, this is all my guesstimates based on my in game experience, so it's all purely anecdotal.
I get DC's/SoHs as survivors quite often, I get a fair few when playing killer... and I don't really play provocatively at all, and yet I've still had people quit because they lost a basic m1 mind game Vs. Pig...
I don't often get given hatch though, and I haven't seen a farming killer for months...
But yeah, we never get a complete breakdown of stats, it's always half the picture 😒
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@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781667#Comment_3781667
How can you say that kill rates are inflated for killers, based on survivors throwing the match, but not take into account for killers throwing matches? Giving hatch, farming, going AFK, bots ect.
Skull Merchant is pretty hard to argue against in regards to quitting boosting statistics.
Farming/Going AFK is a legitimate one, but that's very rare, most killers take at least a 3k, if not 4k. I'd guess and say I've seen a farming killer maybe 1 in 50 games... (and I'm seriously high balling that, my gut says it's more like 1 in 200).
Giving hatch is more common, maybe 1 in 10-20 (depends on the day), however it's impact is also small, as it lowers the killers kill rate from 100% to 75% kill rate. Significant, but not data breaking...
Bots I'm not sure what you mean... DCs for bots tend to increase killrate, because killers an easily manipulate bots and turn the game into an effective 3 Vs 1 by exploiting the bots senstiviry to TR. This happens maybe 1 in 10 games for me.
Survivors quitting via SoH however turns a potential 0-100% kill rate into a near guaranteed 75-100% killrate.... and quitting has become surprisingly common. I consider it a good run to get maybe more that 6 games without someone quitting...
Survivors quitting is way more common, and is far more damaging than these other scenarios that impact the data in my experience, so the point in the OP is still.valid to my mind.
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@Vanishlord said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781852#Comment_3781852
The fish. He would be fine if The true monster didn't exist or was not as strong.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781854#Comment_3781854
I think that is what happened. Is elden stars the beams that fall from the sky?
I'm a melee build so he is a pain since he keeps running away.
Elden Stars is the sun ball that follows around spitting out sparks. Though the rain from the sky used in conjunction with the light slashes is also nasty, but I'm not sure those attacks can layer, I feel.like that has happened to me once, but Im not sure... if they can layer it's rare... but uber nasty 😒😒😒😒
I heard in the patch notes they allow you to summon Torrent now Vs. Elden Beast? A nice tip is have additional item quickslots if you hold triangle/Y, that you can set in the top right corner of the pause menu. I like to bind Torrent to triangle + Dpad-right to use him quickly in fights.
Would be interesting if Torrent can out run/jump over all of that crapola... 🤔
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@ReverseVelocity said:
In terms of Condemned mechanics, I think Sadako 2.0 was nearly perfect outside of a couple of really busted addons. Condemned was meaningful, but also had meaningful counterplay. People ended up losing their minds over a 10 second teleport cooldown and now we have the generally underwhelming 3.0 version.
From her kit as it is today, I think a good starting point is to make the tapes actually do something again. Both of her previous iterations had some sort of a risk when taking a tape, but in her third iteration, it's nonexistent. It's just a free pass to turn off 2 TVs.
I'm not sure what exactly would be appropriate for the Tape's effect given the context of her current kit, but there needs to be something there.
It's troublesome isn't it?
Just grab a tape whenever you start working a gen, deliver when condemned is getting a little nutty, and just pay attention to your headset and Sadako has loads of problems...
Yet so many survivor get run over by her cause they just don't grab tapes...
It's the same thing as Pinhead... his chains are not hard to deal with if your team understands the deal... but if they don't... they get demolished...
Both have high killrates cause low level survivors can't handle them... but once survivors hit that threshold... it's the pain train 🥲
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I actually like the idea of blood point bonuses on less popular perks.
I suppose the only issue becomes tracking perk usage and thus knowing which perks to buff/nerf becomes more difficult than it already is...
Would be cool for Chaos shuffle though... would.mean someone who gets a dreadful build gets extra rewards for sticking the game out.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781340#Comment_3781340
Not letting people use the perks they want because they are playing with their friends is a punishment. I hope this helps.
I suppose you're of the opinion that putting on a bike helmet is a punishment, because it's a slight inconvenience, regardless of whatever other effects it might have, positive or otherwise.
I'm sure you're capable of engaging with multiple talking points and providing a well formulated argument, like others who disagree have done in thsi thread.
However since you have decided to go for the 1 line, obvious and lazy comments, that probably came from the reading the title and nothing more, trying to shut down all conversation points with no engagement with the discussion whatsoever... No, it doesn't help at all.
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@Rulebreaker said:
Overall we're not sure. Our own opinions aside, there's a number of pros and cons that sorta make it a wash to us, it wouldn't be strictly "beneficial".
Pros:
- Perks can be made "stronger" more immediately and less risk
- SWF bully squads loose some effectiveness
- Adds some perk diversity
- Killers can worry less about SWF power (we're admittedly reaching with this one)
Cons:
- It "punishes" playing with friends and using something outside the game ("punish": Inflict a penalty or sanction as retribution for an offence, especially a transgression of a legal or moral code. "Penalty" is being unable to use something if your swf mate uses it. The "transgression" is being in a SWF and/or using outside coms)
- It only adds diversity if people are in a SWF
- It might not add much diversity (ex: 2 duo swfs with both pairs running the same set)
- Competent solos can still abuse the stronger perks, even if it's harder.
Agree with everything there.
Regarding the "penalty", it is a nerf in the grand scheme, so I can see how it'd be perceived as a penalty to SWF. I suppose the question is do the cons outweigh the pros?
There are 14 general perks, 78 non-licensed perks, and 44 non-licensed perks for survivor. A significant number of the main meta perks are available from the non-licensed cast... so personally I don't think the cons are much of a con... the only immediate concern I have is regarding brand new players... but ofc, I'd imagine their more seasoned friends would accommodate.
Ofc... I do understand I seem to be a bit of an oddball in all walks of gaming... I like having options in games, with nuance and meaningful choices relating to your individual playstyle. I take issue with things being the default best choice to use in any scenario... (for example... I hated World of Warcraft, cause there was one and only one viable build tree every time).
A lot of people like things that are strong, whereas I don't like using things that are strong at all... I wanna use what I feel like, and have good reasons to do it, but also compromises that I had to take as well. I didn't like MFT while it was riding high because there was literally no downside to it, but now I use it quite often.... and I tend to react favourably to nerfs regardless of which side it affects...
So yeah... I suppose I'm the weird guy that is probably not too qualified to answer what would be fun on everyone else's behalf 😅😅😅
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@totallynotamegmain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3719684#Comment_3719684
her mori is depressingly underwhelming for a killer from a franchise all about murderous contraptions
I like her stabbing through the hand...
I wish she had followed up by grabbing their hair, and putting her blade up to the survivors neck/chin and let the hidden blade extend suddenly into their neck, then letting them drop limply to the ground as they bleed out... y'know like Wolverine's claw would...
The alternative would of course be sit on their back and place an RBT on their head, then have her messing with the trigger as the survivor desperately tries to grab her hands, that she keeps pushing away until she rips off the timer module, and the trap snaps open.
I'm hoping the eventual custom mori's will give this a pass...
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Define "Punish"
Inflict a penalty or sanction on (someone) as retribution for an offence, especially a transgression of a legal or moral code.
Define "Rule"
One of a set of explicit or understood regulations or principles governing conduct or procedure within a particular area of activity.
Are we saying that adding a rule to game for the improvement of the game is a punishment to the players?
Rules get added to games/sports all the time to enhance the gameplay of the game and make it more fair/engaging for all participants, such as the offside rule in Football, or the obstruction rule in Rugby.
Expanding the ruleset of a game is not a punishment, it is expanding the ruleset. The question asked in this thread is: does this rule benefit or hinder the game?
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
There are hundreds of perks in the game. Do you expect players to effectively have to learn twice as many effects than before?
Also fair, though there is the search bar now that massively helps with that.
If you want a heal perk you can just type "Heal" to see all healing perks.
I you want a gen perk, you can just type "Repair" or "Generator" to see those.
Though admittedly there is a problem for new starters with friends who may not have many perks unlocked yet. That is also a fair downside.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781268#Comment_3781268
i think dbd is based off extremes.. 4 stealth perks, 4 repair perks, 4 chest search perks etc. limiting it reduces the fun. at the same time, bvhr under-tunes most perks because they can be stacked. Leads to have lots of very bad perks.
Does it really reduce the fun though? It's different, but is it really less fun?
For stealth perks as an example your list includes: Distortion, Shadow Step, Lightweight, Light Footed, Off the Record, Urban Evasion, Fixated, Iron Will, Teamwork: Collective Stealth, Babysitter, Bite The Bullet, Lucky Star, Quick and Quiet, Dance With Me...
Right there are several flavours of perks doing similar things at various levels of strength/usage.
Distortion is the strongest, but has the additional benefit in comms of identifying killer aura perks easier, so the comms team can all go for a stealth playstyle, but make use of their individual flavours based on the collective information the team has.
I'd argue this is far more engaging, than 4 people taking Distortion for a team, and the other benefit of being able to make these perks stronger cause only 1 can exist in a SWF surely makes it equal, or even more fun?
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@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781268#Comment_3781268
That second paragraph sounds like a good way to explore the utility of perks.
It also serves as half decent marital advice lmao.
The couple that dies in SWF together stays together? 🤣
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@TieBreaker said:
So if a new perk came out, and multiple people wanted to use it, either only one person could use it, or everyone has to go play solo?
A fair point, that would be a downside, though I believe friends in comms would be able to resolve that issue without too much difficulty… I don't believe DBD players at large are completely incapable of navigating basic human interactions. 😏
Plus, as already mentioned, the need to collaborate on team builds also encourages exploring the perk via how it can also be supported, not just how it can be used in isolation. It becomes a collaboration where you're both exploring the perks limitations together… y'know… as friends. ^^
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In seriousness, I would call this data sheet heavily into scrutiny without proof, because while it's certainly possible to win as Trapper, and win consistently, any semi competent survivor team against a random build Trapper should be giving him trouble. It'd be hard even if you did go all out with add-ons and perks.
If a single survivor follows you disabling your traps, you've got nothing, and a soloQ player can do that on their own. In this scenario, you only have mind games to help you as Trapper, and good survivors don't fall on your blade that often.
So yeah, without proof, it means nothing, and even with proof, it doesn't hold up to scrutiny if survivors are playing bad.
Play 100 games against the people on these forums, then I'll take it seriously.
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I would be wondering how he managed to get 100 games with legally blind survivors playing using only their elbows to be perfectly honest 😉
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@Survivor_Main_2000 said:
For me, I really dislike the fact that survivors feel like for the most part just like different skins.
And are you happy with the state of survivors gameplay loop right now, or do you have any suggestions for making it more fun and interesting?
What are your thoughts?
TBH, outside of a few notable examples with noise levels, and the difference of animations, the survivors are just skins of one another.
The problem you've got is not all mechanics are created equally, certain things are just simply more valuable than others, and you can never get rid of that…. as such character abilities on survivor inevitably leads to a meta, like how in old DBD Claudette for example was used to hide because her dark skin made her much harder to see in the dark maps.
The freedom of choice based on personal preference is one of the biggest boons the survivor has for their investment… and while your idea is certainly a cool idea and sounds good on paper, in practice, it creates a whole load of problems for the game overall.