UndeddJester
UndeddJester
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770535#Comment_3770535
Holy… all these letters just to say that it will hurt the game if low tier killer won't suck, because they don't deserve it due to not too big complexity.
At some degree I agree with you, it's nice to have killers like Blight, Singularity and Billy, because strength of these characters is directly correlated with the player's experience and time spent on them. Amazing killers to show skill expression, but who said every killer should be insanely difficult to master just to have right to be good?
We have Nurse, where you need to spend day to begin destroy most people in public, we have Spirit, where you need good headphones to be at 80% good at the killer. We have Chucky, which probably most easy killer to play in A tier and one of the easist killer to play in the game. Somewhere near is Xeno. We have not mechanically complex Plague pretty high in tier list. And you know, they somehow exist with all these killer you mentioned. Thanks Entity we don't ask here constantly "buf if they deserve…"You know, I can say your words in other way and I think we will agree here: all killers have their own ceiling in strength due to their designs, where they can still be fair, takes at least some skill, interesting to play as and against. If we brake this ceiling, then we obviously brake something in this pattern. But buffs I suggested don't brake it and I believe but these killers in B tier at best anyway.
Doctor doesn't have very high skill ceiling, but he also doesn't have low skill floor. Hag imo is very hard killer to play in current dbd. But as always, my lovely point here: "casual" survivors can struggle against these killers, if we will buff them. Casual killers don't exist, if anything, and if they exist at the end, they should from very begging to play super mechanically hard killers, ask them to spend 500-1000+ hours to begin achieve something. And god forbid they want to play something easy, they only allowed to play C or D tier killers forever, because killers need to get better on hard killers to deserve win, while survivors will stop low tier killers from buffs only by existing, we definately won't ask them to get better to not struggle against low tier killers. Holy f, when we will stop with this biggest hypocrisy in community?Well, you pretty much got my point yes. I suppose the angle I'm taking is that if you buff low mechanics killers into being too effective, you push them into the realms of Skull Merchant... SM is not really too unfair, but she is very easy to use, and is effective... if you make a low mechanics killer too strong, your counter play options become more limited. That's a trade off you can't really avoid...
I have said for a long time that I love Trapper, he is my second killer after Pig, and yes I want more buffs for him... however a lot of the buffs people suggest for him put him in danger of being rather obnoxious and becoming similar to Skull Merchant. It's mechanical skill expression that facilitates a stronger upper bound for a killers potential...
Like imagine a buff to Huntress where she has an auto aim that never misses; she would be insanely oppressive… and the thing is she has that potential…buts it's a human on the controls, and humans miss. They aim incorrectly, mistime things, make sub optimal decisions. On Trapper... you can't miss... so if you make him as strong as the upper end of Huntresses potential, you've got yourself an OP killer.
Regarding your suggestions for Pig and the hold W to loop problem, the main counter for this is the mind game of crouching and standing back up. You can bait a survivor into thinking you are going for an ambush and just stand back up to catch them as they leave loop.
I do think Last Will could be improved a little. You're right it is so punishing on its own, it needs Workshop Grease to work, but WG right now is one of her best add-ons... so thats not really saying a lot. It does kinda feel like this add-on was designed to only be used with Workshop Grease... having its longer charge removed would make it busted with WG though and would by far be her strongest add-on combo...
Perhaps if you set the ambush charge speed to her basekit charge speed (similar to how iri hatchet overwrites all add-ons to say you only get 1) so that it can work on its own, but can't be used with WG to become the default "use this and only this" add-on combo.
I'm a little on the fence for crouch speed. 3.8m/s is not great, but Pig does have JMF to go to 4.2m/s, which is very good and JMF feels like a substantial and noticable upgrade... and JMF is great for the aforementioned crouch/stand up bait vs. the hold W at loop issue.
The benefits of JMF are quite appetising compared to running Pig's nastier add-ons with her RBTs... Being 4.0m/s base would be nice, but 4.4m/s with JMF is starting to sound a little silly... so JMF would have to benerfed, and then using it becomes less appealing... meaning her nastier RBT add-ons don't really have a reason not to be run...
Not saying any of those changes are bad... I'd accept those changes, just I have a personal preference for JMF being as it is in Mandy's kit. 🤔
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@Atos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770605#Comment_3770605
I agree, would be nice to have that.
I added an edit regarding altruism, my bad... xD
Altruism is interesting, because on one side Survivors can't bring items into the trial... so might be fine in regards to flashlights... though the meta definitely becomes go down under pallet... Killers will need to defend each other to get hooks, and the thing is... they actually can't defend vs. a healthy survivor... so thats a problem that's a little more intricate to solve.
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@Atos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770588#Comment_3770588
Interesting suggestion, more specifically, a Corrupt Intervention with the current state of being disabled upon the first Survivor downed, or with an adjustment like on the first two Survivors?
I agree with Paige who suggested the remote hook from anniversary event in place of stomping for the Killers, at the exchange for more gens to repair, cage system could remain the same, this way it would open up for altruism for Survivors with flashlight saves and pallet saves while relieving Killers of the time consuming carrying to hooks and I still think being able to fully recover pre-cage should be basekit, because it is the only self-inherent counter-mechanic to slugging pre-cage.I was thinking just for the first down, it's purpose is similar to basekit unbreakable here, doesn't really interrupt the normal gameplay, and it's purpose is to give Killers a few seconds to move in the map first before 6 survivors immediately start to crank out 2 gens, as is the norm currently.
Just walking at the start can lead to 2 or even 3 gens to be at like 1/3 progress after just 20s.
Altruism is interesting, because on one side Survivors can't bring items into the trial... so might be fine... though the meta definitely becomes go down under pallet... Killers will need to defend each other to get hooks, and the thing is... they actually can't defend vs. a healthy survivor... so thats a problem that's a little more intricate to solve.
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Straight up, as much as basekit unbreakable is nornally a horrible idea...
With the way hooks work in 2vs8, I don't really see a reason not to have it to counter excessive slugging. It literally costs the killer 1s to hook a survivor, and there is virtually no chance to save a survivor who gets downed... it doesn't change the normal gameplay loop barely at all, but does combat a more unfun playstyle.
While we're at it though, a basekit corrupt intervention would help killers out a lot more. Even just 3 gens blocked out of the 10 stops the immediate rush of gens right from tne word go, and with the speed a down occurs in 2vs8 makes it not even a big problem for the survivor team by and large.
So those are my 2 suggestions.
Basekit unbreakable, and basekit corrupt intervention.
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Regarding all of these killers, it depends what you want to achieve.
Even though I myself am a Pig main, the problem with all of these killers is their mechnical skill is quite low... which means the upper bound of their potential is also quite low. The majority of skill for these killers is expressed by the ability to read survivor behvaiour, mind game successfully, and understanding/exploiting the limits of your power... however the actual execution required in each case is not that difficult.
Compare this to all the top killers, who have significant mechanics requiring precision and aim to reach their potential, and is the main factor that pushes those killers into the top tiers.
- Nurse blinks
- Hillbilly dashes/flicks
- Blight rushes/flicks
- Wesker dashes/techs
- Huntress hatchets
- Pyramid Head PotD flicks
- Oni flicks
You get the idea, all of these killers have a lot of precision requirements in their kits to reach their max potential.
So if you buff these killers sufficiently to match their A-tier counterparts, their relatively low skill floor and low skill ceiling means they become kinda brain dead OP to use... I suppose the question is, is it OK for lower skill requirement killers to be limited in how far up the tier list they can reach?
A lot of players are casual players and struggle mightily with these killers, and I would argue the buffs you would need to push simpler killers to the top of the pile would likely remove very large portions of their counter play, and does more harm to the game than good...
@UndeddJester said:
Hello reader! I hope to take you on a thought journey that is hopefully as fun to read and it is to write. 😁
Intro
DBD is one of the most interesting and unique games I know. I've played all kinds of video games since I was 5 across multiple platforms, and the mind games and mechanics of DBD are the most unique of any games I've ever played. There is no game experience that I can really equate to it...
The Basic M1 Gameplay loop
A thought that has been bubbling in my mind for a long time is the disparity of killers such as Trapper, Myers and Pig compared to the likes of Nurse, Huntress and Blight... and after a while of thinking about these killers, the main differences generally speaking between higher level killers vs. lower ones seems to be the difference of the reliance on mind games vs. mechanical skill...
I propose that Survivor and low tier Killers rely more on mind game skill expression, rather than mechnical skill expression...
What I mean by this is, your typical basic m1 killer gameplay loop is to induce the survivor to make a mistake in order for the killer to close distance and land a hit. The key skills here for both sides are positioning and predicition, and something that is hard earned through experience... the knowledge of tiles structures, tile and window spawns and how to chain tiles together, accounting for the potential perks in play, this is all paramount, but ultimately all of it boils down fundamentally to positioning and prediction.
I would argue the actual inputs required to do this are not very difficult/complicated, i.e. are not high in mechanical skill expression... and I would argue that survivor by and large is not full of opportunities for much mechanical skill expression... while hugging tight to corners and inputting your direcrions accurately for fast faults are factors, your decision making is the primary tool with which you survive in DBD.
How mechanical skill expression differs in practise
How this manifests is the likes Trapper have little in the way of mechanical skill expression to level the playing field, and become notoriously hard to elevate with buffs without making them obnoxious... against Survivors who are wise to the mind games, optimally positioning at tiles, and rarely making mistakes, there is little Trapper can do about it... there is no mechanical skill he can employ to swing the mind game back in his favour... all he has are traps he places to limit options, which still follow the same principles of positioning, mind games and alike to induce a survivor mistake.
You compare this to someone like Blight, Hillbilly, Huntress or Nurse, these characters each have a lot of mechanical skill. Their mechanical skill creates new mind games for the killer to use, and can even brute force a scenario where it is entirely on the killer to miss instead of anything the survivor can realistically do about it. I'd argue this disparity is most heavily pronounced on the Nurse...
Against Nurse, she still needs mind game skill, but it isn't as heavily required as it is on m1 killers. Survivors still are primarily using the tools of positioning and prediction to defend themselves, however Nurse can use 2 blinks; the first to get close, the second toblink on top and hit the survivor. The survivor has basically no mechanical skill they can employ to avoid this hit... maybe a spin tech, but that's about it... all a survivor can realistically do is position themselves awkwardly and unpredictably to make it so the Nurse needs an absurdly high level of precision to land the hit. This ultimately means it is entirely down to the mechanical precision of the Nurse as to whether she gets a hit or not... her mechnical skill expression can completely subvert the survivors prediction and mind game skill expression, and is something the top tier Nurses can do to run roughshot over even strong survivors.
This is the same for Blight's rushes, Hillbilly's chainsaw dashes, and the accuracy of Huntress hatchets... the ability to use these powers precisely takes a lot of mechanical skill that, swings the mind games heavily back in the killers favour with sufficient mechnical skill.
An interesting set of side cases: Slowdown Killers
This difference of mechanical vs. mind game skill expression creates an interesting problem for balance. Killers like Pinhead, Pig, Freddy, Sadako, etc all universally have high killrates as killers, even though (for the most part) their chases are not strong... there is little in terms of mechnical skill expression they can employ to level the playing field... not to say they don't take skill, but they have to rely on mind games far more to win, and thus end up hitting a pretty concrete upper skill bound...
High level survivors who understand their powers and position/predict well against them can run rings around them with little they can do about it... there is absolutely an upper end to their mechnical skill expression...
However on the other end of the spectrum, the players that don't have those skills as well tuned yet, can easily get overwhelmed and get run over horribly by these killers, because ultimately these killers powers are all about increasing the likelyhood the survivors make a game losing mistake...
The hated characters that lack both... Anti-Loop Killers
Similarly characters that block off loops and get all the benefits of mechnical skill expression, without anywhere near the requirements for precision and mechanical skill expression to achieve it (such as Artist, SM, Knight, etc) get a lot of criticism, even if they aren't strong.
Against these killers there are no mind games to employ, and no mechnical skill expression to force out of them... instead they close areas off while keeping hot in chase, and basically force a hit out of the survivor without really much the survivor can realistically do about it...
Again, positioning and prediction are the survivors tools, and a power that robs them of those tools is not fun for a survivor, especially if it doesn't takes much effort for the killer to do... a great Hillbilly chainsaw is fun to face, because you can make it very hard for Billy to land his hit, so when he does, even if there was nothing you could do to avoid it, it doesn't feel cheap.
Conclusion: So is it OK for lower mechnical skill killers to be low tier?
As a Pig main 🐽, I don't particularly like this thought but...
This leads one to think... is it OK that some killers are stuck in the lower tiers and have this disparity? Newer players go up against them, and they need these kind of killers to learn the basic mechanics of the game. When they get good enough, they start encountering more of the mechanically skillful killers (the dream that is MMR).
The theoretical problem is that should say Trapper be buffed to rival the power of Nurse (say something silly, like invisible traps)... because he lacks mechnical expression in his kit, wouldn't he be getting into the realms of Skull Merchant or Knight style killers? Able to get free damage without much effort by robbing survivors of their prediction and positioning tools juat by using his power as and when?
It seems to me the issue with nerfing upper tier killers and buffing lower tier killers, is to make an upper tier killer weaker you need to limit the potential of their mechnical skill expression... since survivors only have positioning and mind games to combat you, and don't have any equivalent to mechnical skill expression to fight against you with (survivors would need somethimg like being able to burn Nurse out of her blink if they are accurate with a flashlight for example)....
Similarly buffing killers without mechanical skill expression means making then able to deny the survivors mind game tools without having to use any effort to do it...
Does this mean it's actually better that lower tier killers have an upper bound they can't break through?
I'll let you decide, and would be very happy yo read your thoughts... Have a good one 😁🤘
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@Backmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3770385#Comment_3770385
But thats my point. On hight mmr bear trap slowdown almost unnoticable and thats why she being genrused. Mostly times bear traps is removed on 1st or second box plus to this a very generous timer and timer being stop in chase and you can tell why her power need a buff.
Yeah, but you have misunderstood a key part of her power... the first survivor removing their headtrap on the first box is when Pig is at her MOST dangerous.
Pig traps always take 12 searches overall, so if the first trap is a 1 or 2 search trap, from this point on, the Pig KNOWS her next 3 traps are gonna be some combination of 3,4,4 (or 2,4,4 / 3,3,4). This means that if she gets a live trap out, she knows the trapped survivor cannot afford to waste any time getting a trap off, otherwise they run a very high risk of their head popping, and exploiting this can create a very dangerous amount of pressure.
If at this point the Pig gets another survivor on hook, and downs another survivor within that window (suchbas one going for the save), there is only 1 survivor who can go for the save. Whatever the remaining survivor chooses, that's a free hook stage. If the head trapped survivor instead goes for the save, and has had any slowdown in reaching boxes, there is a very strong chance she has a 4 search trap on them, and a very high possibility of popping that survivors head.
As I say, the thing with Pig is at higher levels getting her traps out is the challenge. 6 traps doesn't mean anything if you're already struggling to get 4 traps out, which is not an inconceivable problem in high MMR. Her chase buffs mitigate that problem, buffs to her RBTs don't...
Buffs to her chase encourage her to use the pressure her RBTs grant her to help put the survivors in a game losing position. If you nerf her chase and buff her RBTs, you only really allow her to camp and tunnel to get pressure.
... and even in her current state, you ask any high tier player, and they'll tell you that they tend to get frustrated at the fact a Pig with certain add-ons can make it quite likely their head pops on a 4 box search, to the point they want her RBTs nerfed even more (and we had to argue tooth and nail to prevent that last PTB).
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Personally I feel Mandy is in a pretty good spot with her recent changes.
The thing with her RBTs is they are highly game changing depending on the trap pattern you get. The Pig is all about turning the game into an effective 1vs3, and using that pressure at the right moment can put the survivor team in a lot of trouble.
A good Pig who can identify trap patterns, especially when they identify a 1 search on the first trap is the most dangerous kind of Pig...
The problem with Pig is little like Oni; she needs her first chase to go well, otherwise the game can easily slip irreparably out of her hands... and unlike Oni, she doesn't have the potential to snowball out of control on a nasty slugging spree to recoup the damage if she needs to. This means good survivors can cause her a whole heap of problems that having more RBTs won't fix... in fact if you hit her chase and give her more RBT pressure, she'd struggle even more to get them out at higher levels of play.
For this reason I feel like making her more potent in chase, where she can get her traps out more consistently is a good move personally. She's in a comfortable spot right now:
- She's weaker in chase compared to other killers, but she still has new tools where she still needs to be respected.
- Her inherent slowdown affords her a lot of leeway to bring perks and add-ons to shore up the weaknesses in your own game style.
- Even at the highest levels, few survivors track headtraps to the same degree as a very experienced and skilled Pig, and fall for her pressuring at the right time.
She isn't top tier, cause she doesn't have enough tools to really crack down on a strong looper, but her power does need to be respected ^🐽^🤘
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In This Moment!? You legend 🤘🙂↕️🤘
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Cause he's a Chad and deserves it! 🐴
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He'd probably need that add-on that makes him 4.6m/s basekit so survivors could still loop him.
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@Depressedlegion said:
Add the rest of map of the realm and remove the 10 second global cookie and he's good
Yeah the individual cookies for each guard was far better from the PTB. I feel going back to that and removing the 14s global CD, and Knight is good.
The PTB version would mean the unga bunga dumb cut off loop and hard zone style of play doesn't work for free, but he can still make it impossible for a survivor to loop on their desired path enough to grant him a hit. The important part is he has to think about it now rather than doing it brainlessly.
He also has a reason to use each of his guards, a Carnifex breaking a pallet in 1.8s while the Knight zones is insanely good, but has no value now with his 14s cooldown. Understanding their strengths and weaknesses in various scenarios gives meaning to his guard decisions, but his current version doesn't achieve any of that...
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I see you are man of culture...
Nah seriously, is she has an unnatural shape it's worth flagging, though do you have any screenshot for what you mean?
That would help significantly in understanding the problem.
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I'm not too bothered by it being a thing...
That said... wouldn't mind if getting caught in one while carrying a survivor only caused him to drop the survivor in front of the trap as if he put the survivor down, rather than a full wiggle off shoulder instantly... getting cut off from a hook by your own trap is very annoying 😑
Problem with buffing Trapper though is basement Trapper is always a factor... basement is like the one scenario where Trapper becomes King... to the point it can't really be ignored....
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3769277#Comment_3769277
i'll run spies from shadow for spirit before i run lanquid touch.
Click to view the GIF -
@[Deleted User] said:
Not sure how many will read all of that but for what it's worth I did, quite enjoyed it compared to so many whiny threads, & I pretty much think you nailed virtually all of it!
As a Trapper main (play a killer rotation of about 6 or 7 but have thousands of hours on trapper) I prefer the mind games, & game knowledge more than say the mechanical skill of nurse (never got into nurse just wasn't interested, same with blight or billy) I do love Oni though who kinda slots between both.
No idea what my actual MMR is on trapper won't claim to be right up there like virtually everyone but I do 3k the vast majority of games (always give hatch unless its a 4k tome challenge) i'd personally argue the true skill of killer players is to consistently play well & win with the M1 killers, if you can do well with them you can win with anyone.
Of course you get the odd team that will trash every trap. Ect but i've been destroyed playing every killer.
While I won't argue nurse has a higher skill ceiling (billy more so for me personally) any player willing to sink enough time into learning their chosen killer can win the vast majority if their games if played to their true potential. Im sure as a pig main you might not see her as a high tier killer but you probably don't see her nearly as badly as some others do!
Thanks for a good read!
Thanks man!
I know exactly what you mean, and I feel we're similar in that all of my favourite killers happen to be the likes of Trapper, Myers, Pig, etc, the killers who are far more reliant on surprise, mind games and outthinking survivors. I love Myers for example because his power, while simple, is very synergistic with perks, and you can really catch out survivors with a clever Myers build.
....And you're dead right, I know the gameplan of Pig very well, to the point I can be pretty deadly on Pig myself… and while I'm not the best player, I know a few Piggies who are exceptional (dropping no names but I'm sure they know who they are 😏). My biggest point of pride to date was watching a high level Pig game of a player we know here in the forums, and being immediately able to recognise that high level Pigs thought process that allowed them to capitalise on the arrogance and blasé attitude of some very high skilled survivors to get a 4k.
Her upper level of potential is capped by how much survivors recognise and respect her power... but unless you're very familiar, it's easy for even high level survivors to succumb to the more nuanced areas of her game. That knowledge of Pig means I also know her weaknesses very well, and I tend to make life very hard for my fellow Pigs... which often leads me to be quite sad gacing her… but makes me insanely happy when I see a Pig that genuinely out smarts me and the rest of the team. 😁
In some ways I don't want to get too good at DBD, and is why I never play meta builds on survivors.... I do really enjoy playing vs. the mechnical skill expressions killers... but the pure mental game of the lower tier killers are a different but just as fun challenge 😁
@Hex_Llama said:
This is an interesting discussion, and it helped clarify something for me. I think my preference would be for the game to be 100% about winning mind games — or as close to 100% as possible — probably because I would do a lot better if it was. The stuff that really frustrates me is what you're calling "mechanical skill expression" — or, more specifically, when I win the mind game but I lose the chase because of a difference in mechanical skill. To me, that feels like I got cheated — because the mind game is the only part I value/care about/am good at.
So, I think what I'm realizing now is that I instinctively perceive outcomes that depend on mechanical skill rather than strategy as flaws in the game — but maybe I just don't like the mechanical part of it and I'm never going to, because that's not the type of gamer I am.
Also thanks friend!
I feel like the above point ties in with yours as well... I do love the mind games of DBD... and I do like how the mechnical skill killers bring new mind games to the table...
However I will admit, when you're playing against someone is cracked outta their mind, there is a point where you can't help but think "oh OK... guess I just die then" xD
To be fair... I don't even mind that... but it does feel a little frustrating when you get tunneled by said killer... you can win exchanges vs. A Blight or Nurse for example... but you can't ever lose them for long... if they decide to tunnel... you're probably gonna die and there isn't really much you can do about it... 😒
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@drsoontm said:
I don't agree with your explanation of the Nurse encounter. (But it's about 2:30 AM, I'm not entirely awake, I hope I got it right.)
360 are very efficient against a Nurse, especially if they are timed right. (Good mechanical skills required.)
Placing oneself right behind the blink landing and turning with the Nurse works pretty well too. (Requires good mechanical skills though). Remember that one of the changes of the Nurse was that survivors see the Nurse landing before the killer does.
The way I see it, a Nurse playing survivor has high survival chance against any Nurse less skilled/experienced than he is.
That's how I explain I survive most of the Nurses I verse and that was in a nutshell how survivors I couldn't catch explained it to me.
(I have a far lower survival rate against any other killer.)
For example, since you know how the Nurse thinks and how she is trying to influence your moves, you can fake falling for it and doing something she would never expect.
Oh I absolutely agree, you have things you can do against Nurse, and I have a lot of fun against most Nurses....
However you are kinda agreeing with my point; your spin tech is one of the only mechanical skill expressions you have as survivor, and ultimately it's purpose is to make it as hard as possible for the Nurse to aim the hit... you're still at the mercy of her aim skill at the end of the day.
Most Nurses aren't cracked out of their mind, and survivors can use prediction and mind games to make it extremely hard for her to land a hit... but we've all faced that one Nurse at some point who despite that still just lands on top of you and spins like a tazmanian devil, that you just can't seem to avoid a hit from. 😁
All of this is not to say that Nurse is busted, it's to make the point that there is this disparity between Killers caused by their differences of mechanical skill expression, a difference that can't really be bridged without making low mechanics killers insanely unfair...
Nurse is the upper bound, where sufficiently high skill can neutralise pretty much every tool the survivor has and can put survivors in very hard to win situations... Trapper is the lower bound, where he basically has no mechnical skill expression to do the same, so is at the mercy of survivors making mistakes for him to win.
Hope that makes sense! 😁
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This thread saddens me greatly... 😔😔😔
I've really enjoyed playing Survivor in this mode, just as much as killer. It feels very much like looping well, especially to the point of forcing the other killer to help is heavily rewarding... taking 2 killers to deal with you should at the very least allow 4 survivors 30s uninterrupted time on gens, just by virtue of chase time combined with map travel time.
2vs8 feels fresh and different, a shake up of the formula, and break from the normal stress and tryharding of DBD proper... and dont get me wrong, I enjoy regular DBD, but there are times you just have to accept the sweaty Commodius/BNP/Lithe/WoO/DH survivors or the Pain Res/Grim Embrace/tunneling Blights.
The fact there are 8 survivors, thus 7 chances to get a time wasting goofball (or 5) doesn't detract from the fun of the mode for me... it feels like a far less serious mode, so having a few survivors screwing around is far less annoying than it is in 1vs4... And I also haven't seen a single survivor SoH yet... that in of itself puts 2 thumbs way way up for me.
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@mecca said:
Most people have a very bad taste in their mouth surrounding the survivor mode. Something should happen to drastically shake up how to play survivor instead of only being able to run 10 meters with no counterplay against two killers tag teaming.
I actually jumped out of my skin and burst out laughing when I was juicing a Wraith, and Trapper blindsided me out of nowhere...
I took it as a point of personal pride that it took 2 killers to down me and bought significant time for the 7 other people of my team.
That's always my mindset playing survivor. I never expect to run a killer for realistically more than 45s, any time I buy over that I consider a job well done.
If I was consistently able to loop the killer for 3 minutes or more, I'd get bored fast cause it makes the killer no longer feel like a threat.
But hey, that's just one opinion 😁
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I actually have the official answer to this:
@Peanits said:
There are currently no plans to reintroduce the achievements for the Stranger Things DLC. When the Chapter was originally removed, the achievements were repurposed as generic achievements to ensure they were still possible to earn without owning the content.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
Pointless? No.
It's going to be a different framing from 1v4, but discussions about it are far from pointless.
Pointless is probably the wrong word, I suppose what I'm more driving at is, do you honestly feel its even possible to get a proper grasp on the state of balance in this mode within 2 weeks?
I've already seen numerous statements that sound pretty concrete in relation to balance... but I personally feel I'd need a couple of months at least with it before I feel like I could be objective on anything about this mode balance-wise...
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3768075#Comment_3768075
I'm hoping it's just the fault of the last patch causing the crashes. Do you play on ps4? Have you been crashing? I'm so upset that after finally crossing over this is happening and locking matchmaking for me 😒
I'm on PS5 and not been hitting any issues... which is weird cause the PS5 version should be just an upgraded version of the PS4 title...
Sadly that is a generic crash error code on PS4, so not really useful for debugging... if I was to hazard a guess, it's possibly something related to the difference of graphics libraries between the 2 systems... but that's just a hunch based on the differences I know between platforms. Always make sure you submit an error report if given an option, that should send a crash dump to BHVR and give a chance to figure out the issue.
Sadly might be a report a bug scenario...
On the plus side, the PS4 to PS5 upgrade is free and all content directly transferable. You keep all your DLC and everything. So if you were ever interested in it at some point, that is at least 1 less headache you don't need to worry about...
Though as someone who have transitioned from Switch, I feel like you'd lose your mind at seeing a steady 60 FPS... suddenly you become a God tier player who can't be touched xD
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3768036#Comment_3768036
I would rather see the distance based fatigue system we talked about in your post.
Likewise... I was just resisting plugging it again xD
But since the opportunity for a shameless plug has presented itself... 😏
@UndeddJester said:
The classic problem of Twins is slugging. Victor used to have a massive 5s recovery when injuring with pounce to mitigate this, and it felt awful. The 7.7.0 buffs reduced this recovery from 5s to 2.7s. This of course makes Victor a slug God... He can crawl up survivors butt's and just mow them down with little that can be done about it… this feels lame for the survivor, but also for Twins too.
The problem is there is basically no incentive to try long leaps on Victor....which is where this killer would be the most fun. The further you leap, the more likely you are to miss. If you miss, you increase your chance of getting kicked in the teeth, so we want to encourage long jumps and stop point blank pounces. To remedy this I want to propose the following rework:
Victor Scramble
On all collisions with survivors or terrain during pounce:
- At point black Victor is stunned and will take 5.5s to recover from pounce.
- On the upward arc of his leap Victor is stunned and will take 3.5s to recover from pounce.
- On the downwards arc of his leap Victor will scramble and take only 1.5s to recover from pounce.
Numbers are debatable, but the logic is if Victor slammed himself into Survivors or terrain, he is much less controlled at the start of his leap, whereas at the end of his leap he has time to actually control himself and spring off terrain to recover faster.
This would encourage Victor to go for longer leaps, which would be much more fun for both sides of the equation. The massive 5.5s stun on a point blank hit is a harsh penalty to make it a... "sure you can do this... but you're eating a harsh stun for it" deal. His regular 3s miss cooldown is unchanged, as often if you miss you're usually off in the middle of nowhere and unlikely to get hit.
This would also allows him to use his leap to bounce off terrain as a rapid (though loud) mobility tool, and sells the idea of Victor being leaping menace much more. Not much use in confined spaces, but would add an fun extra dimension to his kit.
EDIT:
Actually prefer VomitMommy's variant of this after discussion:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3749342#Comment_3749342
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The way to fix Twins is Victor needs to be heavily incentivised to go for longer lunges.
Short lunge shouldn't be impossible, but there needs to be a heavy penalty for a short lunge and rewards for long lunges. As an example of a super hard version:
Victor injures as normal for each hit, but immediately dies and starts resurrecting if he hits a lunge within less than 5m.
That is off top of my head, I'm not suggesting that particularly seriously, but it's something along that vein that Twins needs. Something that makes crawling up survivors butt's with Victor and slugging from point blank not the go to strategy.
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Whenever I see anyone do it, all that runs through my mind is just how stupid they look... I have to really tilt and squint for it to look even remotely like what they're trying to do...
I feel like I should take it seriously as an issue... but I just can't... it's so forced, clumsy and pathetic looking there is no punishment I think of that rivals just how much of a rash the killer looks doing it xD.
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Despite this, the queue times for killer are insane... I know I'm having fun as killer when I actually get in...
Going on holiday soon so I'll miss most of the event 😢
I hope it gets extended.
With all that said I wish Trapper had a little more help... mostly I wish the speed boost he grants was global, so that while I'm setting up, I'm still somewhat helping my teammate exert pressure...
The 200% regression when kicking gens is nice, though a built in surveillance wouldn't hurt... my time on Trapper is valuable...
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Bela Legosi and the Cookie Monster or I riot.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
This year has seen me embrace playing more Killers than just Freddy and Myers. I have picked up a handful more and have decided my next will be....
The Pig 🐷**
I have to master her! I'm determined to be just as terrifying as possible to people as Pigs have been to me. I have many Killers to Prestige, but they will have to wait.
I'm just getting started so the grind will be a while. I plan to have her P3 with every Killer perk unlocked at Tier 3 on her by early next month.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WS0AUZWN6VQ3/20240725-035912.jpg
Watch out, I'll be growling at baby Survivors in no time.
**This is not an endorsement of Pig players, y'all are sick and I caught your evil desire like a virus. Playing as The Pig without Distressing and forfeiting stealth should be against the rules.
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I only want WoO nerfed because I refuse to run it in its current state. I'm in a minority, so I doubt it will happen, but personally...
WoO causes bad habits in your play, actively hinders your ability to learn and makes you overall worse at the game. People become way too reliant on it and become absolute lambs the moment they are hit with blind.
If it had a cooldown it would mean you would need to remember the spots that you saw, and that would actively help you learn maps and actually improve your game to the point you can operate without it.
You would eventually be sble to drop the perk, or only use it to determine what tiles have spawned/been used up, rather than being the switch your brain off and follow the yellow lights perk it is now.
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@ghostfaceismywaifu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766142#Comment_3766142
Ahahaha we exist! I never even realized we were an enigma the whole time until seeing how few people ask for an x axis invert in games like this! For so long, I thought it was the NORMAL way to play!
I decided to boot up DBD in tutorial mode and sort of analyze what I think my brain is actually doing to process it. For context I'm using a Logitech controller with a left and right analog stick. So, I'm looking at Dwight in 3D space. My left thumb is controlling his movements in direct relation to the space. Pushing up he walks forward, pulling back he turns toward the camera and walks towards me. Pushing left he walks left, and pushing right he walks right. I think that's how most people experience that part.
But what I THINK other people experience with their right thumb (or however they're controlling the x axis/camera), they are controlling where the character is literally looking. Correct me if I'm wrong on it, but it seems to be that if you push left on the right analog stick, you want Dwight to look right, and pushing left, you want him to look left, and so on. Or maybe it's simply your own eyes even in third person—you're pushing the stick in the direction you want to be looking.
In my experience, that control is not corresponding to where the character is looking or where I, the viewer, desire to look. What I am controlling is the actual, 3D environment as though I'm spinning it like a disc.
So here's the neutral position
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CEP3IMWD7JC2/20240724025750-1.jpg
Imagine Dwight is the center circle of a CD that is spinning. My left hand is controlling where the center of that CD is going, while my right hand is controlling whether that CD spins clockwise or counter clockwise.
If I want to see what's to the LEFT of Dwight, I want environment to move clockwise. The message my brain tells my thumb is that I need to direct the stick in the direction I want the CD to spin, NOT the direction I want to see.
So here, the red arrow (the direction I am controlling) is the the scenery I want to be rotated OUT, and the yellow arrow is what I want to be rotated IN.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/MVCLFILUBPL5/1.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/C8NFJ0MRFCWA/2.jpg
Likewise, if I want to see what's to the RIGHT of Dwight, I want the scenery to move counter clockwise. My brain says, push the stick in the opposite direction, we want the CD to spin left so we can see what's on the right.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Y6EJSZAN4I66/3.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9JT8WGGL82IL/4.jpg
As for the y-axis… a CD doesn't move up or down. Those directions are very literal to me—if I want to see what's above I push the stick up, and if I want to see what's below I push the stick down. (I was never a player of flight simulators, but I absolutely understand why inverting the y-axis makes sense for those who have!)
Motion sickness can be such a strange phenomenon really. I experience it in real life from actual spinning, and I'm quite sensitive to it in that I can't handle some carnival rides that spin without getting so dizzy I'll fall down. But I'm also one of those people that, for some reason, visual things that have nothing to do the sounds/ears aspect can trigger that dizziness, like watching certain things spin. I think you're right in that it has to do with cognitive load in some way..! Like y'know how some people will get headaches from looking at certain optical illusions for too long? For what it's worth, I'm also autistic and suffer from sensory overload frequently! Both sound and vision can be triggers for that, but sometimes even being overwhelmed with information I'm trying to process (like reading something very difficult to understand in a room where there are distracting things)
Anyway I digress, I suppose it could be all sorts of things! It was interesting to consider your thoughts about it because it had me pondering it a bit myself, hence the explanation I decided to give :> I hope it's insightful in some way!
It's actually fun to think about, cause invert Y is also not common, and I suppose the difference between ourselves and "normal" users is that they are basically pushing the stick the direction their eyes want to move.
I suppose myself I think of it more where my head has to move. Left and right stay the same, to look left my head has to turn left. For up and down however my head has to go backwards and to look down it has to go forwards. If you watch the survivors head specifically inverse Y mirrors on the controller where the survivors head goes.
I mostly understand, visualising it as an x rotation of the camera around the player makes sense... Although that comparison breaks when it comes to a normal y-axis... and being I'm not normal Y anyway... that really breaks my brain... We're literally polar opposites xD
That's quite the list though, and tbf we recently got the FOV improvement for killers in relation to dealing with motion sickness... decent shout it gets, added especially if one can frame it in that context...
Hopefully the feature gets added soon! 😁🤘
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I don't think SWF should be limited at all.
However I do think SoloQ Survivors should have a permanently in place 25-50% BP bonus. Just a small incentive for playing DBD authentically in the harder way to play it.
Could even look at killers a flat bonus at the end for facing a SWF. Just something like 1k for each 2-man, 2.5k for each 3 man, 4k for each 4-man. A flat bonus means they don't just tunnel or play hard ball to win to get more points on a multiplyer, they get it regardless.
That way everyone is happy.
- SoloQ makes up some extra BPs even if the game is a little rough, it encourages them not to leave.
- Newer Killers have a silver lining when facing SWFs so less likely to salty/toxic and actually try rather than just give up.
- Fun SWFs know they're giving everyone else BP bonuses and helping the community.
- Toxic SWFs trying to bully the solo random or the killer fail to do so, cause they get a bonus anyway, so you achieve nothing.
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@ghostfaceismywaifu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3765733#Comment_3765733
timesplitters mention!!! (never played it myself but I'm familiar with it because I've done a few art commissions of a character from it ahaha)
Honestly I have a hard time remembering .. I think there may have been some games in my childhood that had that setting by default? Stuff where the camera is third person because the camera has more of an effect of moving around the character than being literally where the character is supposed to be looking. And the muscle memory of that really sticks. I WANT to say maybe 3D Sonic games were like that? Though I'm not 100% sure my memory serves. (edit: oh, Super Mario 64 was one of those kinds of games with an inverted x-axis! That would definitely have been one to influence me. Can't remember if subsequent 3D Mario games with like that, ie Sunshine, but there's a good chance they were!)
There's also just something about non-inverted x-axis cameras that have a tendency to give me motion sickness until I REALLY get used to them. I can't really say why..? But I'm someone who has several motion sickness triggers in video games (like issues with eyestrain and strobing and such) so who knows, brains are weird.
When I first booted up DBD, the motion sickness hit me hard and I was like, well I'm on PC, screw having to just cope with it lol
STRANGELY ENOUGH… I don't play with the y-axis inverted. I have no explanation for that. Again, it might be cases where games I used to play might have just been like that! But y-axis being inverted or not is also, for whatever reason, easier to adjust to between games.
Fascinating, well it's a pleasure to meet a invert x-player... I thought you guys were an urban legend, something devs were forced to implement for the sake of being anal and having menu consistency.... xD
Interesting the motion sickness issue. I know that motion sickness is often caused a mismatch between what your inner ear detects and what your eyes see causing your brain to get confused. It thinks the only explanation for this mismatch must be you've been poisoned, so it makes you sick.
I guess that then makes sense that if your brain has an easier time resolving the movement of the camera and reduce its cognitive load, that does make sense.to reduce your symptoms.
I've only ever had this issue in cars, but rarely in aircraft or ships... though Quake and Doom sliding around used to mess me up pretty bad. I know guys who like to remove the motion sway in games... but it helps my brain resolve what's happening faaaaar easier 😁
Aaaah the Mario games… Fair play!
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Interesting idea.
If it were me, I'd consider going for a sort of Shadow Wolf. Some kind of demonic ethereal wolf man shadow form, kinda hinting at the hound of the baskervilles type imagery. Gives lots of scope for potential powers. Something like an amalgamation of this sort of thing:
I imagine something that apply darkness around it's terror radius, having a blood scent to help its prey, and slinking through shadows to shadow as it hunts its victims down
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As an inverted Y-axis enjoyer... fair play...
But I have to ask... why on earth did you start playing games with inverted X-axis? What game was it that started you off on that journey? 😅
For me the first real console FPS I played was Timesplitters 2, which was inverted by default (I think... it might have been my mates settings, but I am reasonably sure it was default)... but because of that, it's just a staple of my controls... and at least it makes sense if you consider flight sim controls...
But inverse X... What the heck is your story? xD
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@Murgleïs said:
I tried DBD on my PS5 (from PC) thanks to cross progression and I must say I am really impressed by console players. They get a lot of toxicity but it’s DBD hard mode imho playing with a controller, it takes way more skill than mouse and keyboard. The game is also way darker on the TV without reshade. I could barely see anything 😭
Anyone else tried another plateforme ?The lack of end game chat actually makes it a much less toxic experience tbh 😅
Also there is something to be said for facing actual Dredge on console, rather than milk toast Dredge on PC 🤘😁🤘
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Possible legal issue?
After all, if you legally don't have an agreement from Nintendo to allow people to transfer their in game content over from Nintendo to other platforms, I don't think you can legally go "Oh well, we'll give all those players in game currencies for free to replace all their DLCs then".
I might well be wrong… but sounds pretty shaky/risky from a legal point of view, as it basically achieves the same thing… 4500 shards as a one off good will token you can probably slip by… but 30'000 shards to rebuy all the DLC you own is probably gonna get some issue somewhere.
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@Vanishlord said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764855#Comment_3764855
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764858#Comment_3764858
Thanks for the advice. I am on console but I am pretty sure I remember my friends being able to help each other. I am looking forward to it.
Console works very well for coop too 😁
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@Vanishlord said:
My fellow pigs. I did it I bought Elden Ring. I have wanted to get it for so long but was too scared to incase I gave up. What should I expect. I have watched a playthrough but not sure.
Gz!!! Have fun!
So if you're nervous about giving up, as a Dark Souls elite snob gamer myself... ignore any instruction of things being off limits. If you wanna use spirits or summons, or use broken build combos, do it. People like me are dorks who try to gate keep the ER experience. 😅
My main advice to completing Elden Ring is do explore to your hearts content, but remember the game is huge. The main beats of the game are rewardingly challenging... the side areas have a bit of a tendency to be slapped together and cobbled out of other parts of the game...
This can mean the quality of fights can swing wildly to painfully easy or ridiculously unbalanced and annoying.
So if a place is extremely frustrating to beat, it's probably not a skill issue, but a wildly imbalanced set up 😅
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If you could someone turn everyone's Monitors into TVs so that darkness actually does something, that'll help a lot. Dredge on console is unbelievably spoopy. 😁
@ReverseVelocity said:
This is a case where a few small changes would go a very long way.
Here's what I'd do:
- Increase Daytime Teleport speed to 20m/s (and Nightfall to 40m/s to even it out)
- Decrease power cooldown, or make it so using the Remnant only takes 1 Token, and have his cooldown be Token based instead
- Decrease the amount of charges required to activate Nightfall
- -0.5s time to break a Locked Locker
- Remove the sound when teleporting to an unlocked locker
I like everything here. Especially the faster teleport. The number of times I've flown past a survivor during teleport, or clicked the wrong locker behind the one I wanted, hurts my brain... now I'm floating in the void trying to come back... 😒
Now I think about it... changing target mid flight at the expense of a token would actually an awesome QOL change. Would let you correct mistakes and react to things as you move around.
Not sure faster Nightfall would be needed with the rest of this in place.…though if it is... I think it would be cool if the faster locker break was during Nightfall, go even harder on this value and make the add-on apply to normal locker breaks. Nightfall is supposed to be Dredges equivalent of Oni's Demon mode, a series of locked Lockers can make his life seriously hard for him...
Also does anyone else find it inexcusable awkward to break lockers locks with m1s? I probably succeed in breaking them maybe 70% of the time, and the rest of the time I seem to hit the locker itself and have to swing again…
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@Vanishlord said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764271#Comment_3764271
I know right. No one knows what's better for Mandy then our beloved Shawnee.
Just thought I would share this link that is interesting.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/421075/we-need-this
I now want Amanda with a knee saw... to cut through pallets 50% faster...
Pre-drop and hold W vs. This you son of ######### xD
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All of this fallout is Franklin's Fallout. People have hated that perk ever since day one, the only reason you don't tend to see it is it isnt very strong. Weave Attunement however makes Franklin's viable, and that's what is being complained about when you peel it back.
If you want to kill the combo, I'd go the reverse, only show the aura when the item has been depleted completely. That way it's not got the usual Franklin's Bait with perfect knowledge that we've been seeing and the perk continue to function on its own. The obvious problem with this nerf is that you can 99 your item and it does nothing.
With all that said I'm not convinced Eeave Attunement needs a nerf.
The fact it gives you a debuff marker to indicate your aura is revealed... makes me a little less convinced regarding the perks issues. You can test for it any time with a quick put down/pick up, and it's a habit I think people are neglecting. If you have to lose your item, lose it on your terms. Once you know it's in play, it seems easy enough to just discard your item in the corner once it's charges are spent.
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
@Atsuka_Anarchy Was showin me the other day how almost none of the pig's head cosmetics fit with the other body cosmetics.
They might as well all be linked sets because the size of her head changes across each cosmetic and it does NOT look right at all…🤣😂
Her default head is massive so she has a rather large top that goes along to make it fit.
On the other hand, her new Anni outfit has a super tiny head to fit inside the body piece and if you put on her other bodies it looks like she got a shrunken head after a recent trip to Madagascar or the jungles of the Amazon…
This is hogwash!
I gonna make a post that I need your guyz help with... I'm waiting for the opportune moment where there is less buzz (2vs8, Knight, and cross progression currently stealing the show)
Current Pig wishlist:
- Hello Zepp theme worked into Pig audio.
- Shawnee Smith to VA lines.
- Unique pick up, carry and hook animation where she drags survivors along the ground in a low profile and hooks by jabbing a chain hook into their shoulder that then pulls then onto the hook.
- Model cleanup for Mask sizes.
- New female hands to replace the chunky man-like sausages she currently has.
Vs.
- Working BOOP counter charm.
Pig mains whike continuing to not having these things:
"It's all bullshit. It's all a ######### lie. And I'm just a pawn in your stupid games..."
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I agree...
Though tbh, the only way I can think to address this problem (and the general dislike of her) would be to change up her identity and make her the true setup killer. When I played her it was fun creating may web and locking down escape routes. When you got your web up and then got it to come off, it was great fun, but the run in and back playstyle makes it far too easy to disrupt her web/mess with the Hag and avoid the wipe away mechanic entirely.
I would really focus on making her gameplay all about maintaining her web of traps and have it so the ability to trigger a trap is entirely in the Hags hands, and focus the counterplay entirely on the wipe away mechanic.
If it were me I would make the following changes: -
- Make Rusty Shackles basekit so her Phantasm doesn't spawn when triggered.
- Triggering her trap gives her a loud noise notification, but will not consume the trap.
- Her Phantasm jump scare only happens when she takes the teleport.
- Her trap is only consumed when she actually takes the teleport.
This makes the trap somethimg you can't just 180 turn react to. That's a strong buff though, and for that to work, you'd need to do something about her being able to flood traps around a hook. Probably increase the minimum distance between traps.
For add-ons you can then have her old phantasms back in line with add-ons, but unless stated otherwise after 6 seconds instead of beimg disabled, the trap simply resets.
- Grandma's Heart - Triggered Phantasm Traps suppresses your terror radius. Creates a Mud Phantasm for 6s with a 16m terror radius.
- Rusty Shackles - Triggered Phantasm Traps spawn a Mud Phantasm for 6s. The Mud Phantasm will run towards the survivor automatically for the duration.
- Scarred Hand - Triggered Phantasm Traps spawn a Mud Phantasm for 6s. This Mud Phantasm has collision for the duration. Disables the ability to teleport to phantasm traps. The trap is consumed when triggered.
- Waterlogged Shoe - Increases default movement speed by 7.5%. Triggered Phantasm Traps spawn a Mud Phantasm for 6s. Survivors within the trigger range are slowed by 9% for the duration. The trap is consumed when triggered.
I wpuld also add a new sound cue for when a trap is wiped away, so she knows her web got attacked.
This would then mean Hag has a little more subterfuge available to her, and maintaining/utilising her web is far more on her terms than the survivors.
Does shake up her pkaystyle a lot though, so I'd be curious what any local Hag mains think.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3763413#Comment_3763413
Wouldn't be that much difficult to balance imo... Definitely sounds fun to me
Also you wouldn't be able to follow survivor stalking, because you wouldn't be able to use it with LoS on them. Otherwise you get into tier II
To be fair, it's already something you can do without the Scratch Mirror effect, just the notion of stalking at 4.56m/s with basekit Scratch Mirror amused me...
Man just zooms around a corner then says "ah... you can see me now... I'll slow down a bit". It amused me greatly xD
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@Barin said:
I agree with everything you said I like the explanations behind the changes.
You get rewarded for being undetected or strategizing. Also, there is less time wasted using your power. I would have given Myers basekit Blight Serum, but that's just me.
However, he still has some weaknesses. He still has trouble reaching Evil Within 2 when the survivors know your location. You cannot sometimes afford to switch targets even with the movement speed increase.
My proposal to this problem:
- Make it easier to reach Evil Within 2:
Reward Myers getting close to the survivor undetected, m1'ing a survivor in Evil Within 1 fills half a bar and make his Base Movement Speed in Evil Within 1 110%.
Hmmm… could roll that into basekit. I did rework the Boyfriend Memo and Jewellery add-ons to have that kind of flavour, gaining stalk while landing m1s. If you use both add-ons its 1.25 stalk per auto (1/4 of your stalk bar). I didn't want to go too hard because I got the feeling you could quite easily shaft yourself with these add-on too by popping Tier3 earlier than you want.
I believe with the stationary stalk, the tier up from Tier 1 should be a lot easier. If you can get close enough to m1, you can stand still and stalk very fast if there isn't a nearby line of sight blocker.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3763393#Comment_3763393
I was considering changes to the mirror shards, but I didn't have any good ideas for those so I left them as is.
I was thinking it would be funny just put scratch mirror basekit. (Stop working at tier II)
On open maps you simply use it to find survivor to stalk quickly, but on indoor maps you would have option to try stay at tier 1 and play sneaky.
But I am not sure that playstyle is popular enough... (Survivors usually don't like it, at least in my games)
It was bothering me so, I did the Maths. Your movement speed in as Vanity Mirror/Jewellery Box Myers is 3.96m/s when stalking through walls. So yeah almost as fast as a survivor.
Myers passive stalking with both tacky Earrings and Jewllery Box
Oh… he comes out at 4.56m/s…. Tier 1 Mikey becomes almost a normal m1 killer while passive stalking… That's funny 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Basekit Scratch Mirror might be kinda busted xD
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3763393#Comment_3763393
I was considering changes to the mirror shards, but I didn't have any good ideas for those so I left them as is.
I was thinking it would be funny just put scratch mirror basekit. (Stop working at tier II)
On open maps you simply use it to find survivor to stalk quickly, but on indoor maps you would have option to try stay at tier 1 and play sneaky.
But I am not sure that playstyle is popular enough... (Survivors usually don't like it, at least in my games)
Hehehehe, that doesn't actually sound that crazy to be fair, can you imagine Tacky Earrings and Jewellery Box on that? 45% movement speed while stalking… that's disgusting…
I actually tried playing Vanity Mirror Myers with Jewellery Box a little ways back with M&A, Friends 'Til The End, Make Your Choice, and Deadlock… It was actually kinda gross… Since the passive stalking is only 2.76m/s (or something) rather than the active stalking 0.92m/s, the 30% movement speed on Jewellery box is actually around 4m/s or so… You can walk almost as fast as a survivor, and you have perfect wallhacks to win mind games with…
I am being lazy and not looking up anything or doing the maths… but 45% on Tier 1 Myers would be plain nasty… he'd actually be probably viable as perma T1 Myers xD
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Cheers friend!
I'm also surprised you haven't got a tweak for me. That feels like a first... 🤣🤣🤣
I've nabbed a few of these ideas from discussions I've had with others, but I've listened to every rework suggestion for Mikey intently to really grasp what people want from him, then tried to address it in a thematically satisfying way.
I think the part I'm most happy with, is every change here has you play even more like Myers than he already is... I was very worried about any change that alters his behaviour too much... despite being weaker, Myers is still regularly played, because hes fun... so I wanted to avoid anything radical like a teleport , or trying to balance needing more stalk for a tier 4. The stationary stalk bonus and movement speed bonus w/ the sixth sense are my favourites.
Watching from afar then quickly disappearing from view is so perfect for him, and the faster movement will make it more likely to only catch a glimpse of him in the distance. Then there is no hiding, he's crashing through walls to get to you 😁
I was considering changes to the mirror shards, but I didn't have any good ideas for those so I left them as is.
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Yikes, yeah this was what all looked good on the PTB, and why I was questioning everyone saying the Knight was trash now. The way this all worked was really good...
Very well written and a perfect summary of his current issues. A vote for this version back.
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Yeeeeeeaaaaahhh... much as I love MGS and Solid Snake (and I really love Solid Snake), its a really big stretch to put him in a horror category…
Lara I would say is an adventure series with horror elements, and in the 2013 Tomb Raider there some downright nasty moments that gives it some good clout to push her into the horror world of DBD...
However... Metal Gear is just a totally different beast. Even with the hardest of leans and squints I can't really say Psycho Mantis, the Fear, or anyone of the members of Foxhound or Outer Haven can really push it there... maybe the Sorrow, but even he is not even actual threat in actual game...
Plus... Snake being Snake... I can't really see him getting picked up and thrown on a hook without him CQCing the killer to the floor and breaking an arm... 🤨
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I'm just gonna be planting a Trap garden while Hillbilly is popping off with exposed and haste buffs 😁
Gonba be like an old man chasing troublesome kids stealing strawberries from my garden.