UndeddJester
UndeddJester
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927174#Comment_3927174
The drone dart would be considered eligible for exposed, for balance reasons.
Interesting... bound to the claw trap? Or just exposed in general? 🤔🤔🤔🤔
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1 issue you have is perma undetectable 4.4m/s Myers with 32m aura reading on demand would be hella obnoxious on a number of maps.
At the risk of annoying the Scratched Mirror Michaels... perhaps if the Scratched Mirror were to remove his Undetectable in t1 as compensation, that might be a good compromise. Fun fact, t1 Myers has a TR of 6m, but it's not used due to Undetectable...
By removing Undetectable, even if you take M&A for a 0 TR, this would mean you could still see his red light around walls and give you a chance to see him coming, and aura reveal perks/items would actually be a meaningful counter to Scratched Mirror.
The problem you then get of course is this doesn't differ much from Vanity Mirror... but 4.4m/s at base with 32m aura read and Undetectable sounds absolutely awful in any map with limited LoS.
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I realise this is a necro... but with the announcement keys and maps updates are coming I'm dredging this up (I posted it just before the colours change... I totally forgot that was happening 😳)
Great to see a WoO add-on coming to maps! I've wanted this for so long as a more skilful version of WoO.
Hopefully we get a cheap map to go with it so it's relatively accessible for new players/when levelling up newly released survivors.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
I’m still wondering if the drone dash will be changed so that it gives a claw trap that inflicts exposed (and doesn’t directly injure the survivor), so the killer is forced to commit to chasing the survivor.
That would stop the killer from injuring survivors from across the map.
That wouldn't make sense with her attack drone being in toe though.
One of the big issues of this new design is unless SM hits a drone, she is an M1 killer with no power... the drones can't down, and her attack drone can't down (or injure) either until someone is claw trapped... the big question is, how hard is it to hit a survivor with a drone?
So currently survivors have no real incentive to heal, and even if they do, either way for Skull Merchant it's basically hit drone or bust... (a problem that doesn't go away and in fact gets worse if you make claw traps expose only, since she's basically Ghost Face with extra steps).
If the claw traps were permanent until healed or downed/hooked (debates for either)... that might be something... having permanent visuals on someone fits the surveillance direction of the killer and gives a good reason to heal against her, since she can play the macro game extremely well while survivors remained claw trapped.
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@danielmaster87 said:
Tunneling didn't get called the strongest only after camping and tunneling were nerfed. Most have been saying it's the strongest since the very beginning. Because it is.
And just based on how the game plays, I can't imagine it ever not being the best strategy. The devs will never reward the killer enough for them to play otherwise. All they do is punish, ironically affecting the more skillful/strategy-based players more (i.e. those who tunnel well).
Can you win through random chases? Sure, sure. But that's a dice roll if ever there was one. The moment a decent survivor team capitalizes on that, you're done. And I guarantee you the people always saying "I don't ever tunnel, and constantly get 4ks" definitely do count hooks, most likely alternating between 2 survivors until death, like I do. They don't just go for random chases, because the best players in the world can't even do that and still win consistently.
Absolutely fair assessment, good read.
I believe another issue is there is no concrete definition of "tunneling" in the DBD community (or there is, but people are happy to substitute their own definition and call any instance of hooking a survivor twice "tunneling" regardless of context). To my mind there is a big difference between hardcore tunneling and opportunistic tunneling... there's quite a bit of nuance to tunneling in my opinion.
In the scenario you describe of bouncing between survivors, this is a solid strategy, but of course the question is, does the timings surrounding unhooks, heals and downs allow it? Can you effectively find your previous mark? This was always my doubt on the true effectiveness of "tunneling", because sensibly if you get hooked first, you should be being more careful than your soloQ teammates. Do things like work on far generators, jump in lockers to avoid BBQ, generally pre-walk, etc, etc.
I would argue a lot of the survivors who complain about tunneling often are complaining about opportunistic tunneling (hardcore tunneling is rare), and if Survivors do give the killer the opportunity to tunnel, and that's typically on the survivors... and to my mind ceitocisng the killer for doing it is silly. With the notable exception that of course... creating that tunnel opportunity is a much, much easier task for highly mobile killers 😏
However I do believe hardcore tunneling is more often than not, a poor strategy... IF the Survivors don't all come of gens and play into it. 😁
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All in favour of rallying together to make a Spider killer?
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@Jtflorencio said:
I propose Nerf Blight, Spirit, Chucky, (like Kaneki) lose charges when they break a pallet (different cooldowns obviously we have to be fair) but in exchange buff these perks, they would be helping the M1 Killers … without buffing stronger killers who break a pallet and use their Dash ( It would be a good option and it would also encourage killers to leave the 4 anti-gen perks )
Brutal Streght 30%
Fire Up start with 1 token: 6% / 12% / 18% / 24% / 30% / 36% (6 tokens)Chucky? Chucky is fine though... has to use different parts of his kit in different locations and play mind games instead of just use power at any tile whenever off cooldown for pretty easy hits. Certainly not OP anymore.
Spirit is also fine at basekit... her issue is she does have a few add-ons that make her exceptionally strong.
Blight, fair enough. Can't argue with Blight.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
What's not quite realized is the reason tunneling is rampant in dbd. Surprisingly, it's because of the number of survivors. Why?
We must first understand that there are two ways people tend to view the game.
The first way is the actual way the game is designed per BHVRs own statements. It's one killer vs 4 individual survivors each with their own win condition, but survivors are not considered a team. Survivors do not win or lose together and can choose to work together or work lone wolf. In a situation like this, for every survivor against the killer, each escape rate gets lower for survivors for balance. For example, if it was one killer vs 1 survivor, then the escape rate should be 50%. If there were two survivors, then obviously we could no longer keep survivors at a 50% escape rate, as it would be unfair for the killer who has multiple opponents. What's the balanced escape rate for 4 survivors? 38.5%. However, that low of escape rate isn't very fun for the individual survivors, so they have been given plenty of buffs. Recent official stats shows that escape rates range from around 40% (solo queue) all the way up to 48% (for 4 man squads). This ends up making it unbalanced while 4 survivors live. Once one survivor is eliminated, the balance between 3 and 4 survivors is a drastic change and becomes more manageable. Thats usually why you see killers only tunneling the first player out at high end play.
The second way to view the game is to disregard BHVRs design and just pretend survivors are a team. If they were a team and all win/lose together, then this opens up the possibilities of ties. What's the escape rate in this case for each survivor for balance? 44.2%. This leaves solo/duo/trio slightly underperforming, but full 4 man squads still overperforming. This, once again, heavily encourages killers to tunnel out the first survivor.
So whether you view view game as it's designed (1 killer vs 4 individual opponents) or as a team game, both cases have 4 survivors as having the advantage the moment the game begins. It's an uphill battle until one survivor is eliminated.
It's a challenge to address because while 4 survivors have a very big advantage, once eliminated, the 3 remaining survivors are at a big disadvantage. Trying to nerf 4 survivors in some way would inevitably then hurt 3 survivors once the 4th is gone. It's a problem the game created from It's inception. It would have been likely better to have a strengthened 3 man game (as in stronger survivors but a max of 3).
NOTE: this naturally is a base line and does not consider individual killer strength. Some killers are powerful enough to handle even full man squads with ease (such as blight). The numbers provided are about balance design as a whole across all killers. Some killers are underpowered and have it even worse, and some killers are overpowered and aren't held to the 4 survivors advantage. Also, the answer isn't to reduce the number of survivors then buff them considering the logo, merchandise, and so on...BHVR would never reduce the number of survivors. I'm just pointing out that designing the game with 4 survivors from the get go has created this problem that's frankly hard to fix without negatively affecting solo queue OR weak/average killers.
It's an interesting perspective, though I don't necessarily believe it's a byproduct directly of the number of survivors, since the respective strength of the individual player correlates to the strength of the team as a whole.
If for example we rudimentaraily say that survivors are 1/4 the strength of the killer, losing one player leaves the survivor team with 75% of it's strength. Whereas if we're to balance the game for 3 players vs. a killer, removing one player would losing a 1/3 of the teams strength, leaving 66% only of it's strength... so tunneling could be expected to be more prevalent with fewer survivors based on this rudimentary model, and by the same token, 5 players for Survivor would diminish the value of removing a player from the equation.
Obviously this oversimplifies the problem, as the game of DBD is really all about action economy not some abiguous "strength". What makes 4 survivors stronger is more hands to divide tasks, and this would be true regardless of the number of survivors. So in regard to the question of tunneling a player out, we have effectively 2 scenarios/ideas to weigh up: -
- You focus 1 survivor of the 4 survivors for the tunnel, only regularly occupying 1 survivor, while at least 2, and usually 3 survivors have completely unimpeded action economy, for the potential gain of making that 1 player permanently "occupied" by removing them from the game. If you do it fast enough then there are only 2 other hands available to survivor is at any one time you are in chase. By doing this you are allowing a temporary increased action economy to attempt to permanently reduce the survivor action economy from the point the first player dies. Hopefully you do it fast enough that you can pressure the remaining 3 consistently enough to win.
- You focus multiple of survivors the 4 survivors, using the time they are on hook to consider them "occupied", and assuming you are effective at getting into and completing chase, you can now occupy 2 survivors at once, and occassionally 3 while one player is going for unhooks and completing heals. This is effectively the value that Pig's RBTs, Pinhead's Chains and Sadako's Condemn, and Hex perk's provide in a nutshell, they reduce survivor action economy so there are fewer hands available to progress the survivor objective.
Now obviously if presented the chance to permanently remove 1 survivor from the equation efficiently, any killer would be throwing the game not to take it... however the question fundamentally is, if you are focusing one player and not removing the action economy of others, can you remove that player fast enough to stillbbe able to capitalise on the reduced action economy against the remaining 3 before the game runs away from you?
More traditional m1 killers, the answer to me generally looks to be "no". This I believe is another fundamental problem with the more modern shift to generally more mobile and effective anti-loop killers who can brute force hits at tiles. Not only are they more effective at making a player dead, they are also more effective at capitalising on the fact that player is dead.
The theory is these killers have the strength to not need to play these more sweaty and meaner strategies... but the reality is it tends to mean they are just better at it. It seems to me this creates a feedback loop where as more killers lean to becoming more map mobile and loop lethal (and not having those things leaves the killer dead in the water), the more effective strategies like tunneling and slugging become, and in turn stronger and stronger survivors defences need to become (hence the more recrnt initiativesto address those things coming up)
And of course these things tend to disproportionately hit the killers that already can't do it more… (such as the 70 second unhook timer increase hits lower tier killers harder than higher tier ones).
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@OmegaXII said:
Just from gameplay-wise, tunnelling is the most effective way to win as Killer, regardless who you play. Having one less survivor is the strongest pressure you can apply as Killer.
It's just that mobile killers don't have to waste time camping around hooks, as they can chase/disrupt/injure/down other survivors a lot far away from hook while they're waiting for the unhook.
Yeah, can't argue with that.
I suppose the more accurate version of my argument would be to say an m1 killer can capitalise on a survivor mistake that allows them to tunnel for a huge advantage... but it is significantly harder for an m1 killer to force a tunnel, and often the cost of trying to force a tunnel is greater than the value the tunnel gives you.
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@ChuckingWong said:
Ill try to keep it short here so others can chime in:
Communication and coordination just not being available. Its why the strategy, regardless of a killer being m1 or not, or really fast around the map, plays little into it.
Fast killers can do it easier, 100% no argument there though.
Back to comm/coord:
Majority of the playerbase is soloQ. They have no effective way to tell their teammates to go focus on generators(stop trying to flash save/use my full hook state as time), or what pallets have been used, what gens to not do (make it easier with close gens), "can you take a hit for me really quick", "where are you?" etc etc etc
Without these tools or callouts in a team based game, things quickly fall apart as people have their own agenda. Its a "team", but not really in the end.
You have to rely on "ESP" to get results out of scenarios like this:
This could have quickly turned into "WHAT ARE YOU DOING?" or "PLEASE DROP THE PALLET?" or "insert angry blame phrase here"
This entire chase I kept from away them though, as we had unfavorable generators (people ALWAYS DO the safe ones in soloQ, I have bond and I use it to keep chase away from the generator. This is something people either rarely use, or just dont care and things quickly snowball.All fair points, and I think broadly we agree... and I 100% agree that comms is obviously a factor, but the HUD does a pretty good job of explaining the situation to you in soloQ. If you pay good attention to it, it covers more or less everything you need to know most of the time, and I believe players who utilise it well render tunneling to be nowhere near as effective on a low mobility killer as its ordained to be.
In SoloQ, you can factor in the travel time to your decision making for m1 killers to make a reasonable judgement on if the killer is tunneling or not, and if an m1 killer enters/drops chase (or never enters it), then you can usually assess when you should unhook with pretty good accuracy. An m1 killer HAS to commit somewhere because time is so much more precious for m1 killers. You obviously can't expect other SoloQ players to adhere to these principles, but you can certainly make the assessment yourself, and if the killer drops chase, you've got some time to try and slip away to relative safety or hide somewhere.
Even if you don't lose the killer, you can waste a significant portion of their time looking for you, or even just walking to you, amplified further by perks. The simple number of variables of where you could have gone or what you could be doing is much higher for m1 killers.
The point I'm making is, even if you're in a SWF, a mobile killer can still always effectively return to hook to tunnel, for an m1 killer its a much bigger gamble even in SoloQ. A shout out might buy you maybe an extra couple of seconds or so against Blight, but seeing a Myers drop chase in SoloQ is giving maybe 10 seconds of more to react. The fact is vs. a mobile killer there are simply far less places you could have gone or actions you can take by the time the time the killer gets there. Even hiding in a locker with Iron Will isn't really an option more often than not because a mobile killer can see whether you'd had time to leave or not, and can assess you're still in the area.
This strength of mobility to my mind directly correlates to the effectiveness of tunneling, and I don't think there is a way around it... because for m1 killers tunneling is not really that strong, and is quite managable for competant survivors... but for many S tiers, it's borderline unmanageable even in really good coordinated teams.
EDIT: This obviously applies to more than just tunneling of course. Slugging, holding 3 gens, everything is far more effective by virtue of having less time to get across the map.
I merely picked tunneling because it's talked about as being the most effective way to win, which I maintain, is only true for killers who have the mobility to effectively do it.
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Of course. It is supposed to be possible to lose power as Xeno, if it wasn't, what is the point of the turrets at all? The survivors would have no counterplay at all.
Previously as a solo Q player, if you were particularly devious about turret placement, you could put Xeno in tricky situation of having to choose between you and the turret to give you an edge. Turrets have basically been nerfed to the point it is basically impossible for a single turret to knock Xeno out of power, thus the only counterplay left is to stack turrets.
Personally I'd have preferred Xeno got his tail cooldowns improved, but have it so that turrets were changed so they are linked, and that breaking a turret would disable nearby turrets as well. This would mitigate the effectiveness of SWF advantage, and keep the element of clever play for SoloQ... but here we are.
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@Twiggsy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924994#Comment_3924994
Also rip controller players unable to play him
I feel that as a controller player myself... it's always a shame when there is controller/PC divide...
However in the same breathe, one can't look at things like Nurse and say "yeah that's fine" just because controller can't make the same effective use of the power...
Kaneki's problem was he has all this high level skill expression that is terrifying on its own... then all this super easy stuff to fall back on for cheap hits as well when the Kaneki player isn't very good or having a rough game...
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Just to ensure it's attached to the discussion, linking my dead thread here on this Skull Merchant Rework to ensure it's in BHVRs view.
@UndeddJester said:
I am sad to see Skull Merchant 2.0 given up on, but after taking some time to accept it, I am a little more optimistic.
The new drones made me think of a relatively unknown gem of a game called Receiver, a game that gave you a gun and a bunch of tapes to find. There were drones that flew at you kamikaze style and tried to kill you, and they were quite intimidating (the gun was hyper realistic and you had to control everything about it, reloading required you to pull the magazine out, drop it, grab a new one, insert it, and pull back the slide to chamber the first round). Fumbling to reload your gun while this thing runs at you was quite the rush, and hopefully Skully's drones can manage the same thing.
With that in mind, let's look at this new Skull Merchant preview 2 version and genuinely try to address the issues that ahe seems to have.
The TLDR version
- Make drone scan zones invisible when not within a zone. Only reveal when crouching or standing inside the zone.
- Make Global Detection apply to Conspicuous Actions and give a very short reaction time, and have the effect linger.
- Make claw traps permanent until downed or removed. Make self removal of a claw trap take significant time (20-24s to self remove, 10-12s to altruistically remove). EDIT2: Perhaps make claw traps permanent until healed or downed?
- Survivors need a reason to heal. (Still working on this one)... EDIT: As a cheap fix... no post drone hit movement speed boost if injured.
Drone Scan Zones
Problem: Visible scan lines makes it far too easy to see her drones and disable them.
These MUST be invisible. I understood it that the scan lines were gone and replaced by zones, I'm guessing a cone or pyramid coming from the drone. These zones WERE invisible, but now are visible, providing a visual cue that the bottom half is not scanned to highlight crouching as a counter....
While the principle of this is fine, the problem is they become super obvious, so survivors just walk up and disable her drones. No survivor is ever gonna run into them, not even round corners. It'd be like having a neon light show attached to Trapper's traps.
Suggestion: So instead make the scan zones invisible... then only reveal them to a player is actually within the the zone (crouched/standing/running, whatever). It would look pretty cool if you can see the zone manifest and demanifest as it passes over your head.
Global Scan
Problem: Far too easy to avoid, and not great returns even if Survivors fall for it.
This reminds me a lot of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre global reveal ability on Grandpa. The issue with this is this is highly telegraphed and something survivors can simply stop what they're doing to avoid. This works in TCM because time to kill is much shorter and the counter to the family primarily is remaining undetected as much as possible.
DBD isnt quite of the same cloth, survivors have much more ability to run and loop than TCM so this limitation makes less sense. It can only really work at catching someone running towards a hook or if you want it in chase to have your radar on someone who isn't claw trapped.
Suggestion: The only way this ability could made to do actual work to my mind is if it also applied to performing conspicuous actions and the warning is very short. Short enough that trying to complete a heal, or getting a badly timed skillcheck would ruin your day. If ever detected, have the effect kinger for an extend amount of time.
This would expand its usage beyond just trying to spot someone running towards an unhook or as a weak chase support tool.
Claw Trap Removal
Problem: Skull Merchant cannot use her drone dart without a claw trap, and applying a claw trap requires landing a drone hit. Why not just stay injured?
This seems a strange addition, since for Skull Merchant to be able to use her attack drone she needs a claw trap first. Since her drones can't down, not healing against her makes a significant portion of her power moot.
It also dimishes her ability to tag someone with a drone from afar and then book across the map to capitalise on a hit. If the claw trap is permanent and the time to remove a claw trap is reasonably long, (like 24s) this might be OK... but if it's like 12s or whatever, then it's kinda pointless. This might be good for altruism.
Suggestion: Claw traps are permanent until removed. 20-24s to self remove, 10-12s for a teammate to remove.
Conclusion and other thoughts
I'm wondering how easy it'll be to deploy and use a drone in chase. Since the EMP dart does nothing until Survivor is Claw Trapped, being able to do this reasonably easy is important.
If it isn't, the EMP dart is going to need some kind of secondary, non-claw trapped effect to discourage just not healing vs. Skull Merchant. Still trying to think what, but it's something to lend brain matter to....
I'm also trying to think of a different name for the EMP dart, since an EMP is meant to disable electronics... it seems bizarre/illogical it can injure. The dart and Claw Trap are effectively 2 pieces of some kind of injury mechanic, like a kill code dart... it implies that Skull Merchant does this deliberately to play with her food instead of being outright efficient...
As I say, I'm sad to see SM 2.0 go, but this new version might be fine IF some of these issues are ironed out.
TLDR: -
- Make drone scan zones invisible when not within a zone. Only reveal when crouching or standing inside the zone.
- Make Global Detection apply to Conspicuous Actions and give a very short reaction time, and have the effect linger on successful scans.
- Make claw traps permanent until downed or removed, there needs to be strong potential value for hitting the trap... Make self removal of a claw trap take significant time (20-24s to self remove, 10-12s to altruistically remove).
- Survivors also need a reason to heal, since SM had no power unless a claw trap is applied. Aa an alternative to the previous point, simply make claw traps permanent until healed or downed. Deep wound then makes sense as part of her kit to prevent excessive healing builds destroying her power and guaranteeing a certain "reset time".
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@Bonvex said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924963#Comment_3924963
Okay, thank you. I will give it a try!
It's a good game that realises what it's trying to do well. I liked it a lot cause it reminded me of a choose your own adventure book, but more a choose your own horror story.
As someone who really likes classic horror, it gave me a real feeling that my decisions shaped events and ended up creating a pretty cool story just for me. I ended up with 2 survivors at the end which felt about right for who I would expect such a story to end, but you can end up with literally any combination of survivors by the end.
The games only issue really is it's pretty much all story, not much gameplay, so the replay value is quite limited, like a puzzle you already know the answer to. Its much more of a one and done game which is probably why it didn't perform so well. I can see myself giving it another go once enough time passes for me to forget it's major beats, or as a gaff to have someone new play it and watch what they do instead 😅
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Kaneki's who actually know what they're doing and bought the character more for his unique playstyle than his raw strength are still doing fine far as I can see.
The nerfs seem to have only really hit the players who used the cheesiest parts of his kit... y'know, the killers who bought and played him just cause he was very easy to play and very strong in so many scenarios you could just meander around brain in hand and get downs.
The players who are actually good with Kaneki and use his leaps with precision are still an absolute menace...
So I'm gonna say, yah probably.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
Rumor has it. Taurie Cain has taken/lured him away…Perhaps to perform a sacrificial offering to the entity.
If I see her wearing his skin and bones, I AM TUNNELING. 🤣🙊🙊
(This is my speculation)👁🐴 oh sure, blame the cultist why don't you... 😏
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/444811/the-licensed-survivor-duo
I want it! Terminator too!
Absolutely... no way we get survivors without the T800... surely to goodness...
Legit I have no sodding clue what it'll be... need VaatiVidya on the case xD
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@Twiggsy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924150#Comment_3924150
It's literally just predrop pallet with him now that's all survivors are doing to hold his power hostage
Take Dissolution. On long tiles used your enraged vault, on short tiles hold W to force them to vault it and break the pallet.
If all else fails break it to create a Dead Zone and then at the next tile if you still can't catch them round a pallet, merely herd them to the same side as the tile you just broke and break that pallet too. Name the map where this doesn't work and it's probably a survivor sided map anyway.
This is of course using the lamest way to play Ghoul, using the actual real strengths of Ghoul properly, Ghoul is still plenty strong. QuietKills here seems to have absolutely no issue playing around a pre-dropped pallet multiple times... and if you look at his video history, QuietKills is actually a Kaneki defender and advocates consistently for NOT gutting Kaneki.
https://youtu.be/Wc7i1-Crnak?si=mLD0G81m1MX8wW3cSo I dunno man. Ghoul looks still plenty strong to me.
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@frozzenk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924160#Comment_3924160
It's not really all that relevant if you personally are upset by the toxicity or not. That's not the point. The point is how it seems unfair to give one team something and not give the other team the same courtesy. It seems unbalanced.
BHVR is supposed to be neutral, right?
Meh, fair point.
I guess I'm one of those players who doesn't typically use the Abandon feature on Survivor either unless I'm in a SWF and they're waiting on me, so I suppose I've not really got a horse in this race 😅
If I get slugged I play a new game of try to bleed out without being found... Tenacity FTW 😏
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I would like to see maybe a limited time event in DBD sometime where they let people queue up for a 5vs5 like they had for the DBD Community Cups, so that casual players can dabble in the comp setting.
Having a ruleset like: -
- 4 man SWF and 1 Killer, players can change roles in lobby.
- Only 1 copy of a perks/items/add-ons per side.
- Specific map shared for both games with the same tile spawns that is shown at the start.
- Limited pool of killers to choose from for that match.
- Most kills/hook stages wins.
Only issue is of course you can't see the other game while playing your own. If a replay file could exist, even if only available to download for a very short time, that would be cool.
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While I get losing as killer is frustrating, especially against Survivors who think they're hot ######### even when all they did was gen rush a meme build Trapper with BNP Commodius' while running Lithe, Windows, Syringes and every second chance perks under the sun... I've never really found myself too put out by survivors hanging around.
To play devil's advocate, EGC is 2 minutes instead of 4 minutes, and if survivors are in gate, there is nothing to stop you just slapping them out of gate to end their BS. Its especially funny on someone like Twins or Houndmaster who can actually injure and down you before you can leave.
I don't really let either gate teabags or slugging/humping bother me really. I almost never run meta, so it doesn't prove anything for me to lose against someone going hard. It's like good job Blight... you caught the no item Kate running Tenacity, Soul Guard, Plot Twist and WGLF... good for you. 😏
Same of course when you get rolled as a meme build killer... like who cares honestly? This way of playing really does make it much harder to tilt... 😁
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@Twiggsy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924138#Comment_3924138
It kills you if you leave the locker
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It's early days, but I feel like he's less oppressive with this patch, he doesn't seem to get everything for free now.
You forcing him to break pallet is a heavy punishment now, and you can actually make another tile now with change. With thw reduced hinder on vaults, if he's a little slow/late latching on you at windows and pallets you can make it round TLs and shorter tiles... still a pain but not as oppressive as it was...
But to anyone saying he's like Legion and a low C/D tier killer, I'm trying to work out what Kaneki doesn't have that Wraith does that makes Wraith stronger than Kaneki...
- Greatest mobility in the game at 14m/s for the duration of leaps (max 1s) and 23m/s for the 0.8s of slide vs. Wraith's 6m/s cloaked movement for map mobility and objective control.
- Same movement difference can get ahead of survivors much faster and be cancelled to be much more effective at cutting off long tiles like the back of shack, body blocking windows and pallet vaults, with a shorter recovery (2s) than Wraiths uncloak time (3s).
- Hitscan injury meaning you only need to be a m1 killer for 1 health state vs. Wraith who has to successfully sneak up on survivors to get his injury.
- Has enraged vault that Wraith doesn't have at all.
Like genuinely what does Wraith have that Ghoul doesn't?
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I wonder what happens if you leave… do you die?
Does the Entity killing you no longer happen cause the event has already passed by?
What happens if the killer grabs you out of locker?
Can they hook you?
What happens if you die after the EGC is over?
Is this the portal to the real world? Can we go beyond the veil?
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You are not helping the "Plz Stop Tunnelling Nancys" cause you know xD
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@LockerLurk said:
Jester?
People are disagreeing with you. You're incorrect. Accept this.... I mean... I tried to extend an olive branch man...
Guess I just have to cut it there and say "hope no hard feelings" I suppose.
Have a good one.
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Personaly I think that all survivors should get voice lines to have their personality better represented in the game, and give us a better idea who they are, then simply have an option for "Enable Survivor Dialogue" in the settings.
Voice lines are a great opportunity to add little easter eggs, unique interactions and interesting anecdotes about other survivors, or even their respective killer...
I really like some of the lines that Taurie throws out sometimes cause if really gives you this interesting perspective in someone who thinks this is all something that shouldn't be happening to them and the dichotomy of guilt about what she's inflicting on others and now she herself is ensuring the same horrible fate she worked to condemn others to.
We could get some really interesting little interactions like this... E.g. Can you imagine Sable commenting on finding Mikhaela, or Feng reliving a haunting memory regarding the Doctor? Things like this could be really cool.
It would also let people play characters like Nicholas Cage or Lara Croft and optionally turn off their dialogue of they don't want it.
Wins upon wins for everyone.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923592#Comment_3923592
How hard is it to throw the audio files in and equalize them. Scott Jund, who i often massively disagree with on the majority of his takes, even posted a video showing how easy it would be one time.
Aye, I actually work in test engineering, and the last few years have been working on audio engineering.
Scott's video was based around the really quiet Were-Elk skin sounds that gave a significant advavlntage with how quieter some sounds were... and the point was if the were-elk can be fixed, why can't survivor audio be fixed too?
Based on my understanding (as someone who isn't an audio engineer) I thought it might be more complex than Scott was alluding and cause potential issues with distortion... he even responded to me here in the forums, and after I debated him on this I realised I didn't know enough of the technical aspects to genuinely debate with confidence on what I was talking about, so I actually spoke to some of the professional audio engineers where I work about it on a lunch break.
While some Distortion would occur, it would be so slight it would not be detectable by human ear, and would only be measurable by machine level comparison. With all the other far more invasive audio modification effects and techniques used in game engines and alike, this fix is pretty darned straight forward...
So even when trying to give the benefit of the doubt and really giving it the best case to argue against it... I have had to concede I don't understand why this can't be fixed...
This post was my eventual conclusion on it if interested...
@UndeddJester said:
Hi all!
Probably pointless to dredge this up as likely no one other than me actually cares, but in the spirit of ensuring I'm not passing misinformation, I've continued developing my skills on my audio digital processing journey as part of my work, and do have a much better understanding of it than I did before... so I thought I would share for anyone interested.So regarding opening up a quiet audio file and increasing the gain of the audio signal, the simple up front answer is this is a perfectly valid approach to resolving the issue of quiet audio on most cases, and given the resolution of audio files, most audio files can be scaled quite substantially without any noticeable issues with distortion or artefacts.
The amplitude of the signal goes between 1 and -1, and an audio signal in essense defines the position of the speaker at a particular point in time during playback, in order to produce a sound. When adding gain, a signal that has a particularly sharp peak can hit issues when the peak goes over the limit, which then requires normalising or clamping the signal. This is obviously where the most pronounced issues in audio processing occur.
There is also gain sequencing, which refers to where in the audio pipeline gain is applied.
Part of audio processing pipieline takes the audio input signal, applies param EQ, compression and a limiter to the signal, all of which I only have a high level understanding of, but to give the idea:
- Parametric Equalising changes the volumes of different frequencies to balance the sound, effectively the balance of your treble and bass for the medium you're listening in.
- Compression will reduce the dynamic range of the signal, reducing the difference between the loud and soft sounds to make the audio have a more consistent (and usually more pleasant to listen to) sound.
- A limiter effectively caps the signal with the range, and basically ensures the signal fits within the desired range of the output speakers. You can make a softer limiter to smooth the cut off of the signal, or you can just hard stop a signal over the range. The compressor is a type of limiter, but is more of an artistic clamping of a sound, vs. the limiter which is more a technical make is work within this range change.
Alot of this stuff is feel and experience rather than exact science; and listening to an audio engineer talk about this stuff can be easily summed up as "applying the voodoo".
Regarding the debate in this thread, one thing to bear in mind is the order of operations. If you apply a gain before all these processing steps (the equivalent of applying our gain to the raw audio file in audacity), this changes the equaliser, compression and limiter behaviour away from what it was before. It is most likely fine still, but it will be different to what would be produced from the original signal applying these effects, and then applying the gain post processing.
So the TLDR version, it is very likely that simply boosting the gain in audacity would produce a result that is certainly good enough for DBDs needs... and we're talking differences that would be quite unlikely to be human detectable, let alone noticably worse in quality.
So as to why it hasn't been done, I honestly can't say... but its been interesting to learn about 😁🤘
Have a good one!
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@crogers271 said:
On low MMR (and starting MMR), I've always thought its pretty hard to be bad at the killer role to match the level that survivors can be bad at their role. Especially with the M1 killers, if the survivors are running into walls or otherwise not looping 'properly', literally you just have to follow scratch marks and walk them down. It doesn't have as many complexities if the survivors aren't creating issues first.
I know when I was starting most my escapes where due to killers just not playing or letting everyone go.
This is definitely my experience.
I've introduced a number of players to this game, and when playing with them the quality of my killer opponents takes a very noticeable dip (I also suddenly start seeing people going for adepts which is fun)...
However even in my own MMR, the number of players I see on Survivor who make quite frankly baffling decisions is astounding to me. Even if I can loop these lower MMR killers for minutes at a time, a single bad teammate play can so easily get me killed... and Solo Q can make some absolutely unbelievable howlers that can snowball the game out of control outright...
I've never seen a killer throw a game so hard in a instant... I've seen minor errors where they compound to a pretty sizable loss, but never seen one complete game losing mistake to the same level survivors can... I chalk this up to the nature of an asym, but it really is unbelievable how hard a single player can mess up the whole team from a dominating to near no hope situation.
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@Blueberry said:
I think the solution is much easier than this. Just reduce her post blink lunge range. It forces her to be more accurate. Her lunge range post blink is currently long enough it corrects for bad blinks too much.
There is also that add-on that increases this problem to be fair. Would you reckon hitting the add-on with a new effect would be enough? Or is even the basekit version too much?
(I have only played console Nurse, or against PC Nurse, and trying to discern that myself is difficult 😅)
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The thing that makes her so insanely strong is her ability to blink to last known Survivor location and then blink on the survivors face... a Nurse that has mastered this is completely uncontestable.
I've been wondering for a while if something like this would work:
- Make it so only her first blink can injure while in normal mode. Subsequent blinks can only be used for distance.
- Have an empowered mode she can unlock like Oni, Plague or Ghoul that gives her access to lethal multi blinks for a limited duration.
If her insane lethality is made generally unavailable, but her full form unlocks it temporarily, it gives Survivors much better chances of facing her while she's not in full form, but makes her very dangerous when she is.
This also means you can do away with some of the nastier parts of her design such as yanking the camera down when she fatigues. You may even be able to give her m1 perks back.
You can give add-ons like Spasmodic Breathe her full power at all times because of their trade off, and also her reset position add-on could have an exception to allow hits for it's unique mind game qualities. It also keep add-ons like Matchbox fully functional, and her triple blink add-on is no longer fundamentally game breaking as its true power is tied only to this limited empowered mode.
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My current emotions: -
- I like the blue colour... it looks cool. Blue Map 🤘
- I miss yellow... it was a nice contrast to purple...
- Rewiring my brain to see green items as yellow items hurts my head...
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923522#Comment_3923522
- You're taking this waaaayyyyy too personally dude. Stop. I didn't once accuse you of not playing Killer, I just wanted to cover my bases in case you truly were more of a Survivor Main because some people are. I don't know your play history and frankly don't care about it. Calm down.
- I don't really care to hear "But Survs with flashlights are Survs not on gens" when that's not the argument we're having. The discussion is about whether or not this is a fun interaction mechanic, not if it makes the game easier for Killer or not. There's a lot of other ways Survs can not be on gens that don't involve bullying new players with four flashlights or chain blinding people until they want to DC because they aren't having fun. And Blinding, especially chain blinding, makes people have no fun.
- You need to consider both sides of an asymmetric game, that's why I'm arguing for both sides here. If it's not fun for both sides, it's not a good interaction. I have fun as Survivor interacting with all Killer powers. I have fun as Killer interacting with the ways Survivors loop me around tiles. I do not have fun when my teammates are trying to go for blinds instead of help us get out alive. I do not have fun being stunned multiple times in a row and I extra do not have fun when the entire team clearly came in to start doing that. I've had games where if I had not put on Lightborne, I would not have gotten a single hook because they wanted to swarm me with flashlights that badly. I've also had games where Survivors on my team have DCed because they failed to blind, losing us the round from the word go. Is that fun? Imagine being a baby Killer, would you find that fun? Imagine being a Survivor stuck with a team of these useless Flashlight Freddies, would you find it fun? I wouldn't. I didn't when I was a baby and didn't have Lightborne unlocked, and I don't as Survivor when my tam throws for blind clips to style on the Killer and just makes them slug us all in retribution while I try in vain to do 5 gens by myself.
- Why on earth would I argue about a mechanic from only one side of the game, that being Survivors? Both sides are interacting with blinds. I don't think it's fun for either side and judging by the reaction here, most agree with me. HOW did you read my post and decide I was ONLY talking about Survivor side here? I literally asked if it was fun for everyone; "everyone" includes Killers. There are five players in a DBD round, friend.
- Saying my argument is "a bizarre take" and "must be a typo because it makes zero sense" is a bad faith argument and instantly disqualifies you from any further consideration. Insulting me about how well I may or may not do in avoiding blinds is also disingenuous and has no bearing here - while it's true that blinds are usually easy to avoid, that doesn't mean you just get to assume someone pointing out the issues with this mechanic being outdated can't avoid them at all… it's another way to discredit people with the "But You're Unskilled So There!" fallacy everyone likes to drop in this community when they're losing arguments.
- Blinds are definitely not fun for everyone. Some people are even photosensitive to them. I'm advocating their removal because they are an unfun, outdated mechanic and flashlights (along with Blinds in general) could be way more fun if they did something else besides JUST a reflavored stun you can chain-stun with. I am not a fan of stunlock mechanics or mechanics that remove player agency, nobody should be. I challenge you to find one person who has ever played Killer that thinks blinding is a fun mechanic, especially after the Devs JUST fixed broken blind boxes on Flashbangs.
You're no longer worth engaging with, I thought you wanted to have an open discussion about this. but No, instead, you just want to turn this into another us vs. them about how everyone should suck it up and endure unfun, uninteractive outdated mechanics just because YOU find them fun for Survivor.
A shame, I really thought you had something interesting to say and were more well rounded than this.
I mean, you've added quite a lot to my take there... I don't feel I've taken anywhere near that hard a stance...
EDIT: I suppose my prior post does have a bit more of an aggressive tone... I can only apologise, and attribute my difficulty grasping the talking points as causing me to become a little frustrated, so I might have been unintentionally curt at times... my bad. 🥴
Since there has quite a gross misunderstanding here somehow, do please give me the chance to try and clean up a bit... I was certainly not trying to insult or demean you, and I do apologise if I came across as such.
I've reread your posts again to try and understand what I misunserstood, and your point of saying blinds "halting your movement entirely" still doesn't make sense to me... it doesn't halt your movement, and this apparent negative that you cite for blinds, is followed up with a suggestion that actually halts your movement... I don't think I'm being unfair when I say this doesn't make sense... it's why I asked if this was a typo... I wasn't trying to be jerk or be cute/clever to degrade you, I genuinely don't understand your point here...
My fundamental point is that I do not see the same issues with flashlight blinds myself that you do. Someone temporarily blocking my screen doesn't disable me from still chasing this person, if I recall the map correctly and read their footsteps correctly I can actually gain distance on them, which is much more engaging for me and less problematic than the stun or hinder you're proposing... when blinded during looping, getting hindered every time I break a pallet on someone like Pig would be devastating, whereas on Wesker, I would care a lot less.
The current set up favours m2 killers when it comes to flashlight saves, due to their lethality and ability to push survivors off more effectively, however it does allows players a means to bamboozle m1 and m2 relatively killers equally, and it gives survivors some much needed options to fight against killers who are tunneling... which chain blinds can also assist with.
From the survivor side, I too get annoyed at people going for flashlights instead of doing gens... However I have also seen some really good/successful flashlight players/plays that I think hurts the game to lose as an element. I respect a good flashlighter, because unless I'm in direct communication in a SWF to ensure they go down in an appropriate spot and/or I'm running perks like Background Player, I find flashlights very hard to do on Survivor, and fail them more often that not... I will agree with you that I'd rather they do gens...
However, in the same breathe that is my, and your personal preference... who are we to say flashlight players are wrong/problematic and need to be removed from the game or completely changed to remove the existing elements? Currently flashlights are high risk/high reward, and difficult to use effectively. The players who engage with this mechanic are players too, and we can't just go and nuke a mechanic that we don't get along ourselves, just because we personally don't like it. If we're wanting flashlights to be stronger/more relevant in the game on the flipside, the suggestion can be made... but once again, we're overhauling a fundamental part of DBD, and basically saying all players that want to engage with that on both sides no longer can... any suggestion for that needs yo be VERY clear on what it's trying to do.
Following up on the point of what killers want flashlight blinds you might say? Well I stated it above... killers who would rather have survivors trying and failing to save against them instead of just sitting on gens and cranking 3 of them over the duration of a single chase...
Again I'm not trying to offend you dude... but this debate between us came from me making my suggestion for Lightborn and how it should be changed, a suggestion I still feel is a solid suggestion to improve the game overall... and you saying that suggestion should be nullified, because flashlights shouldn't exist in their current form of the game... which is take I don't agree with... I think flashlights and the blind mechanic are fine, and for the players who don't, we have Lightborn, which isn't a game breaking perk, where my suggestion makes the perk more interesting and actually has some degree of counters instead of its current hard counter status.
Sure some ambiguous amazing idea might exist that could replace it, but tbh I'd probably take it as a separate idea entirely and try to have both.... However regardless the suggestions you've made so far to replace it do not sound better to me, and the foundational logic behind them confuses me... again, I'm sorry if I upset you; it wasn't my goal... but I don't really understand your current argument...
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921677#Comment_3921677
Blinding isn't fun for everyone, but does it need to be?
Yes. Yes it does. Interactions should be fun and interactive for EVERYONE playing. Sitting there being chain blinded or unavoidably blinded is not interactive or fun for the Killer. Is it fun for YOU to be blinded a bunch as Killer? If you don't play Killer, let's talk from Survivor side - Being stunned and staggered by say… Kaneki's Ghoul Bite is technically an interaction between Killer and Survivor, does that feel fun? It sure doesn't for me! Same idea. It removes agency in a way that feels hard to or even impossible to avoid in some situations… just like some cases of blinding do for Killer. Not fun, not a well designed interaction, needs looking at.
There are blind challenges
Not anymore there's not! :D Quest system changed that. You never need to worry about having to do challenges like these anymore because they no longer exist, so there's now no excuse for doing this to a Killer unless you're going for that Champion of Light cheevo or an old Tome challenge! Hooray! One less nuisance challenge wasting everyone's time! Now the only reason to do blinds is for bonus points, as should have always been intended - no more teammates throwing for blinds and no more nuisance blinds period. :) Much more manageable for everyone.
Killers walk into chain blinds
No Killer in the entire Fog willingly wants to get blinded, stunned, chain blinded, or flashlight stunned into a blind. Killers do not enjoy having agency taken away for your blind challenge. Lightborne is there to prevent these sorts of unfun scenarios - and yes, for the Killer, chain blinds and chain stuns aren't fun because they eliminate player agency, as we have established.
An entirely new effect for Lightborne?
How about just removing the blind mechanic and replacing what flashlights, Blast Mine, and flashbang do for something else, like… I dunno… Hindering the Killer? Causing a stun without that awful effect on the screen? Halting Aura Read for a time instead? ANYTHING that feels more fair and interactive than BLINDING THEM AND HALTING THEIR MOVEMENT ENTIRELY?
Okay... first off, I do play killer, and I've played against my fair share of bully squads, and flashlights aren't that big a deal. Survivors going for flashlight saves are survivors that are not on gens, and if you successfully defend against a flashlight save, you gain a lot of additional time and momentum by virtue of the flashlight player(s) not committing their time to doing generators.
Yes. Yes it does. Interactions should be fun and interactive for EVERYONE playing. Sitting there being chain blinded or unavoidably blinded is not interactive or fun for the Killer. Is it fun for YOU to be blinded a bunch as Killer?
Tell me, is getting downed fun for survivor? Is getting shot and killed in Counter Strike fun? Is being scored against in Fifa fun? Is missing the ball in Pinball and losing a credit fun? Is walking into a gooma in Super Mario fun? Obviously not... these things are negative experiences that are counterbalance to the positive experience of successfully overcoming these obstacles. The fundamental premise of a game is that it requires the possibility you might lose. If you can't possibly lose, you don't have a game.
If flashlights didn't work the way they do, then survivors instead don't even try to use them, which means you can never get that positive experience of overcoming the obstacles. Playing around flashlight saves and sabo saves is perfectly managable from the killer perspective and successfully handling gives you as the Killer a sizable advantage. It serves as an additional gameplay element that does actually test your skill as killer to read/predict the survivors and effectively punish the entire survivor side for trying (and failing) to save.
How about just removing the blind mechanic and replacing what flashlights, Blast Mine, and flashbang do for something else, like… I dunno… Hindering the Killer? Causing a stun without that awful effect on the screen? Halting Aura Read for a time instead? ANYTHING that feels more fair and interactive than BLINDING THEM AND HALTING THEIR MOVEMENT ENTIRELY?
Why on earth are you advocating for blinds to be removed? Also what are you talking about? Being hindered or stunned is way worse an effect than being blinded with the splash. All you need is a pair of headphones and the blind doesn't even do anything to you if you pay attention. Furthermore your movement isn't halted when blinded currently... it isn't halted at all unless you're stunned carrying a survivor, which has nothing to do with the screen splash effect youre complaining about. You're instead advocating for changing it to ACTUALLY do that instead? Have you make a typo here? Cause this whole section makes 0 sense...
I actually thought you were originally arguing about flashlights only from a Survivor perspective of not being fun for everyone, because this talk of removing blind elements from the game doesn't make sense when Lightborn exists.
Why on earth should blinding be removed from the game for the survivors and killers who can and do play around that risk/reward, for the sake of players who don't? If the killers don't want to deal with this element of the game, they take Lightborn, a perk which actually harms them btw, since Survivors don't engage with this part of the game anymore, and in turn just crank gens... and as Survivor you just don't take a flashlight. To remove blinds as an element for everyone when the players who don't want it can already do so themselves is a bizarre take.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923047#Comment_3923047
More like I'm thinking there would be whatever method to not break the law while achieving practically similar goal as auric cells, not saying they are lying or breaking the law
Ah gotcha, fair play, objection withdrawn 😁
Also thanks to @crogers271 for the leg work I was too lazy to do xD
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On the flip side her falling screams are insanely loud... I accidently dropped off a small ledge to come for a pallet stun (didn't quite make it on to the stairs), and she screamed like she landed on a lego piece xD
Bloody scared myself with it... Kaneki literally looked at me with equal measures hunger, fear and suprise xD
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3922752#Comment_3922752
As I said already, their reasoning was "japan law", so fair amount of request to change it has been denied, but I don't believe that is accurate when any other games has similar paid only currency, paid/in-game earned currency, and outright alternative to real money without any expiration date at all
To be clear, are we accusing BHVR of lying and its not actually against Japanese law, or are we accusing these other games companies of breaking Japanese law?
Cause the difference is quite important... and the details of the law are also quite important, because I don't think we can reasonably ask BHVR to break the law in those countries, even if the law isn't enforced.
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The pace of the game doesn't really accommodate m1 killers... a coordinated group even of non SWF players can really crank gens.
I saw a video from Arinad about how there is no catch up mechanic for killers, and once you're in a losing position (which is not at all hard to find yourself in as an m1 killer), it is very hard to make a comeback, where even the tiniest mistake or just an unfortunate perk can cost you the game in an instant. Because of this, if you intend to win consistently, you ideally need to have a killer that let's you exert dominance right from the get go and then never let go of it... so people often play the m2 killers where the shortcomings of m1 killers aren't really a factor.
EDIT: Clìpped the video here, it's worth watching the whole thing or at least the 10 mins intro, but the foundational point was that to even have a chance win with off meta builds as an m1 Killer you need a fair amount of luck and often have to go uber hard, maximum sweat just to stay alive in the game.
I was playing Houndmaster yesterday on Red Forest, and I was playing kinda chill, had throwaway add-ons, Surge, BBQ and Chilli, All Shaking Thunder and Sloppy Butcher. Not super serious, but I didn't find survivors immediately, maybe 30s in before I found one. I got 2 hooks in on Sable and Leon, and by the time that was done, 3 gens were gone... and I wasn't even taking long in chases, maybe 30s for both health states. Match had only been going like 2 minutes...
After I hooked Leon, I ran left around building and BBQ saw Sable immediately jump off a gen heading right towards the unhook... I went to cut her off and hit her as she unhooked. I then went for her as she ran into main, but Leon body blocked Snug... unfortunately his wiggling with Snug blocked me going through, so I waited out BT and hit him. Picked him up and threw him on hook, if he had OTR or DS I'd have probably lost the game right there.
I went and chased the Ada for 20s, got a hit. Caught her at a window for the second hit 15s later and as I hooked her that 4th gen popped. Leon came off hook and got healed around the same time so I just ran back to the most central gen... it was 70% with Jane and Leon working on it.
I was dumbfounded... I couldn't believe how much they had gotten done in so little time, and tbh the maths still doesnt make sense in my head... Their rotations between gens, unhooking and healing were so clean... made more impressive by the fact I had Sloppy Butcher... and they had done an excellent job completely denying my Surge.
The only thing that gave me a way back into this game is Leon hadn't hidden, and he was right there when I got back... if he had hidden in Narnia away from the gens I'd certainly have lost this game. I broke them up on gens first hitting the Jane, but I knew I was in trouble and went for Leon, I needed someone to die. Surge finally got some value, as I down him with moments to spare on the last gen as I threw him on hook, and I was able to catch Jane with a pretty lucky Snug dash in main, getting another proc of Surge.
The next 2 minutes was me running back and forth downing and hooking rapidly between Sable, Ada, and Jane, having Surge not let this last gen get done and winding up with a 4k. I think 3 times being within less than 10 seconds of the last gen popping... if this were me on Survivor, this is where I'd have found another gen and try to crank that while everyone hid and tried not to get caught, and I've won many games on Survivor doing this against less mobile killers.
Normally I give hatch... but after such a nail biter of a game I thought no, that's gotta be a 4k... like Jesus dude... Houndmaster isn't even weak, and that game was so close and flew away from me so fast... I literally had to rely on Leon making a pretty bad mistake, and hoping he didn't have a number of perks to completely wreck me... 😲😲😲
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921222#Comment_3921222
But is blinding a fun interaction for everyone?
What about chain blinding?
Is it maybe time to consider this mechanic differently again? Just some possible things to ask here.I mean... to answer each of those points.
But is blinding a fun interaction for everyone?
Blinding isn't fun for everyone, but does it need to be? There are certainly plenty of people who do have fun trying to blind the killer, which Lightborn completely prevents currently. This change actually allows them to go for blinds, and if they have a perk for it, still get value.
There are also challenges to blind the killer while carrying a survivor, which a lot of people get annoyed at because blinding the killer is hard, especially with Lightborn being used by the killers not so good at dodging torches. The killer having Lightborn makes challenges like this actually easier.
What about chain blinding?
What about it? Chain blinding doesn't change... but a killer walking into chain blinds is fishy cause you can simply look down to avoid it. Serves as an extra clue they might have Lightborn if nothing else.
Is it maybe time to consider this mechanic differently again?
You mean new mechanic as in an entirely new effect for Lightborn? I mean maybe, but that would annoy a lot of people who like Lightborn, and as I say it's widely regarded as not a good perk that weakens your build overall… so given in its niche its basically the strongest it can be, satisfying that niche better is almost impossible.
This is the best solution I've come up with in nearly 2 years over numerous Lightborn discussions and debates. Happy to hear a better solution, but most solutions I've seen to date make Lightborn worse than it already is and/or have no point running it... and ofc don't address the problem that this perk is anti-synergistic with related perks due to its hard counter nature.
So... I certainly have no idea, but the floor is open if you've got a better idea.
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Anyone who thinks the AFC does nothing, tell me, after the gates are powered, are you actually able to get the unhook period as a solo player vs. Billy, Bubba, Huntress, or any killer when injured? Answer: No.
This is what the AFC is preventing, and it does its job well.
If a killer is proxy camping, then you have a fairly big window to make the trade, or trigger perks like Reassurance or Camaraderie, and you can almost always get the trade, even if injured, as long as the killer doesn't see you coming.
Without the AFC, you would have literally 0 chance of getting to the hook, especially against a killer like Bubba.
You might not appreciate what the AFC does for you, but it's effect on the game is actually quite pronounced, and makes the situation a hell of a lot more managable compared to how camping was without it.
The biggest mistake solo Q continuously makes is unhooking too early and not punishing campers by completing gens and trading when necessary. When you get a team that understands this, camping becomes almost a non issue.
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Even if the train can't be stopped, if nothing else a "classic colours" option would be nice... 😒
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@lord_of_dogs said:
Survivors are just crybabies. Get better. The only changes ghoul needs is his range back to 16m and a nerf to enraged vault speed.
A lot of Ghouls say he needs his enraged vault to function, and it's not that strong.
I personally disagree, but the narrative is without his enraged vault he's a worse Legion... even when seeing Kaneki's fly around tiles with some insanely good cutoffs of paths, windows and pallets...
Now he's probably quite hard without the enraged vault admittedly, but considering he loses tokens for breaking pallets he does have weaknesses at pallets... even though the enraged vault basically makes it a moot point in a lot of locations, that's a weakness he does have.
Personally I think he needs Kidnap tech removed, then he can be reassessed, I think he may well be fine with that change... but as it stands accounting for Kidnap tech just makes mind games something you lose most of the time.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921233#Comment_3921233
The full invisibility at 18 meters would be nothing buff really. If you equip the addon it barely does anything at the moment, so we might as well make it basekit. It‘s just a nice to have. Clumb of hair would also only reduce the full invisibility to 12 meters while demanifested. This would make it fairly useful at bigger structures and make her very scary. It would be fine since she becomes visable while manifesting and loops are generally a lot shorter than that, so you would see her while looping. The only time it would make it harder to track her is when you gained a bit of distance and she has to catch up. There you wouldn’t know is she there or not? It could probably reduce the threshold for full invisibility to 12 meters while manifested as well, it should at least get tested.
That‘s the pictures we took together if you remember.
24meters:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/8ZIZTQ14NYX5/img-6214.jpeg
18 meters: still very big but a lot nearer and better.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/E07RCBTN4N77/img-6215.jpeg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/700G1CQBO2B0/img-6217.jpeg
12 meters: (new basekit with 18 meters and Clumb of hair -6m)
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JQY7KQX9BSHM/img-6220.jpeg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2HRIHA99R170/img-6219.jpeg
So in comparison: The red line would be the 12 meters and yellow the 18m. Myers is the zero point.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/R4G4AEWIPGOQ/img-6216.jpeg
Closer look:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PSB59G1KCT90/img-6218.jpeg
I do remember, and if you recall I wasn't convinced then when we were talking about it... 😅
12m where Sadako is completely invisible while manifested? I don't know where to run until she is less than 3 seconds away from me, with my reaction time to factor in too?
I dunno about you, but I have had trouble with spotting Freddy sometimes, and he's 32m invisibility range.... maybe I just suck, which is highly possible, but I know for a fact I'm gonna have A LOT of problems against a killer who I can't see beyond 12m xD
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921225#Comment_3921225
Speaking of Addons. My favorite one use to be Tape Editing Deck. I hardly use it anymore because it's meh..Since she needs an addon rework do you think Well Water would be okay if they just increased its duration?
With @Blueberrys tape destruction change, TED would be crisp.
I think it can be extended yeah, although this invisible at 18m thing is a little worrisome with that... Sadako has her Lullaby and her flicker is the more important aspect of her demanifest...so it's probably fine... but one to watch I think.
I realised the other day on the Wiki I'd never heard Sadako's Terror Radius.... Only he Lullaby and chase music...which is a shame cause her terror radius is a banger 🫣
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I like it myself not sure the TP range is REALLY needed as I often find myself maintaining my web in my off time and usually am in range as a result... however I don't see a reason why not. You're in control on where you're placing your traps, so if you're putting them FAR afield and get pulled away because of it, that is kinda on you I feel.
The speed boost is fine on TP, it feels like you should expect her to be speedy when running out of a trap. Alternatively a longer lunge might work nicely. I often find that Coup solves a lot of my Hag problems.... and Unrelenting funnily enough.
I would personally like trap notifications to be improved in general. I wouldn't be too against having the noise notification just removed completely so you can see it easier and instead: -
- You always hear thebmud phantasm spawn crack directionally regardless of distance (an appropriate drop off to give a sense of distance, but it's always audible).
- Wiping away a trap gives its own sound in the same way, and the trap is highlighted yellow for 5 seconds after it's wiped away.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921208#Comment_3921208
True true you are right but I guess what I mean is it might as well be basekit. She's in "Power" she should get a little less visibility. I don't think it would be anything over the top by any means. Its a pretty bad addon anyways since their is a lullaby. Make it basekit and perhaps rework it.
Ohhhhh I gotcha... objection withdrawn xD
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@Twiggsy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920997#Comment_3920997
Mainly map traversal with low Turnrate maybe if we're feeling spicy it could break breakable walls and pallets. Obviously Nemi would have a startup for his dash like Oni give him a roar when he's about to run
I like it... though Nemmy is rather oppressive with his whips, beating him on map macro is typically how you get around his good anti loop power.
He's gonna need a compensatory nerf... maybe the outright removal of Bruce and Sharon 😟
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921063#Comment_3921063
So you get blinded but not stunned, and none of the screen effect?
That just seems like it still makes trying to flashlight useless as now Survivors will just slwo themselves down and end up as sitting ducks for points, isn't that the same problem?Well, yes, as I said, it's more interactions. The killer can feign being blinded to keep up the subterfuge, but once they block a flashlight save, the jig is up. This is a buff to Lightborn...
However the advantage for Survivor is now, perks like Champion of Light and Residual Manifest do actually work against the killer, since the killer is still considered blinded.
This means on pick up, these perks would slow the killer and/or make it so they wouldn't see hook auras. Might make no difference... or it might help make a save the Survivor team would have otherwise found impossible.
Considering Lightborn isn't even considered a good perk with 100% immunity (look at it's history, it has been buffed repeatedly back before the modern DBD era where perks getting buffed was rare), unless the plan is to delete the perk, this seems the most balanced compromise.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921090#Comment_3921090
- RIGHT! LOL It would be SO fun hahahaha!
- I would love this. I love that idea for sure. 100%! Very cool.
- I don't agree with the 12 meters. That's a little too short but 18 would be nice.
There is the add-on though? 🥴