Tsulan
Tsulan
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@WexlerWendigo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2333300#Comment_2333300
Not solo survivors, killers still have an advantage if they’re playing an A/S tier, below that it’s mainly even unless it’s lowest tier killer. Can’t balance the game around SWF.
Since the amount of SWF players is so big, that it affects survivor queue times, i´d say yes, the game should be balanced around SWF.
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@WexlerWendigo said:
The game is only balanced at red ranks, below that killers can bully survivors
And on red ranks, survivors bully the killer.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2333250#Comment_2333250
I never understood why we went from Juking and mindgames to running in circles.
Because one of those is clearly easier, and therefore would become the preferred strategy.
"strategy"
Thats why Nurse is deemed OP. Since most people don´t know anything else than running in circles. While the amount of actual god nurses is like 0,0001%
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2333152#Comment_2333152
- The issue is hitboxes and relative acceleration. Killers slow down much more than survivors when they turn, relative to their maximum speed. Furthermore, they have the same acceleration, so it takes longer for killers to recover from turning than it does survivors. It could easily be fixed if killers and survivors were to reach their top speed at the same time.
Those are some small number adjustments that would make a difference.
I never understood why we went from Juking and mindgames to running in circles.
That's not horror related in any way.
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@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2330499#Comment_2330499
1.) This will not reduce the running in circles meta, whatsoever. It is still by far the most optimal form of movement even if killers can round corners slightly better.
2.) Bloodlust is unfortunately still needed for several insanely broken setups like the House of Pain on Haddonfield, etc. Once every map is fixed, then I'd agree.
3.) Introducing additional objectives would 100% make the game harder to win for non SWF players. I don't know how you could possibly argue otherwise. Its even more stuff to communicate and organize.
4.) Removing a blood point cap does nothing to actually affect the balance of the game.
5.) Again, bloodpoints have nothing to do with the balance of the game.
1. Running in circles is only an issue because of the different hitboxes. They could test it, by changing the hitbox size for a 24h test. Just like they tested turning bloodlust off.
2. Closing the windows in the house of pain would be changing 1 line of code (which arguably could open 20 random windows and cause other totally unrelated bugs, because of the spaghetti code). But it shouldn't be to hard to close down the semi infinites.
3. I never claimed anything else. Now the question is, do we balance around solos or SWF? Pre RE chapter, survivor queues were pretty long during prime time. People argued, that it's because survivors want to play with their friends. So if the number of SWF is so big that it severely affects survivor queues, then the game should be balanced around SWF.
4. The bloodpoint cap forces survivors to play differently. Instead of playing the way they want. Some people enjoy chases. Others prefer hugging gens and others love to rescue others. If the need to do all 3 things goes away, the game would progress differently. Be more enjoyable for everyone.
5. The killer bonus bloodpoint addons exist to make the game harder for killers. Why isn't there something similar for survivors? Shouldn't there be something similar? People always complain that WGLF isn't of the same level as BBQ. While they should complain that the bonus bloodpoint addons aren't.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2330785#Comment_2330785
I am joking, because whenever Survivor Queues are long, the standard answer is that Killers get SOOO oppressed by the Devs. But when Killer Queues are long and Survivor Queues are instant, this does not really seem to be an answer...
And nah, Survivors got nerfed for 5 years.
Remember when SC was so strong, it could be used between 2 killer hits without ever getting downed?
Ahh good times!
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He´s the only killer that performs better by not using his power.
Infection should actually have some downsides and he should be able to limit the area where zombies spawn. Otherwise the zombies (which are his primary power, at least according to the addons) are useless.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2330607#Comment_2330607
Back then they could block anyone they didn't like with MLGA If you dare play spirit then god help you getting games.
Yeah, but thats a whole different story.
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With the pricetag of legendary skins, i would expect own voice lines (like Ash), p3 versions and other stuff.
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@Superyoshiegg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2330516#Comment_2330516
I have 3.5k hours in DbD, but it's not really relevant because I wasn't referring to actual lag-switching.
Back when P2P was around, the Killer (aka the Host) having bad connection meant the Survivors were the ones to suffer.
Back then, survivors could see the killers ping and just dodge, if the ping looked inconsistent.
Now both sides can get dedicated.
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@SunaIIanu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2330440#Comment_2330440
None of the games you mentioned are asymmetrical though, so can really compare them to dbd?
I recently saw a post about R6S on Reddit, where a common complain was, that Ubisoft only cares about comp and doesn't fix things, that suck for the casual players, so even in symmetrical games not everybody likes the balancing around the top.
Difference is: R6 has ranked and non ranked modes.
Since we don´t have different game modes, the game needs to be balanced around ranked and high skill gameplay. A new or casual player can get better in time. But someone who has reached the skill ceiling can´t improve, when the game doesn´t allow him to.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2330400#Comment_2330400
I love it too.
Now that the novelty part has worn off, I see the practical side now.
There have been heaps of times now where I’ve been chased off a nearly completed gen, and knowing the killer will kick it first (because of how panicked they are), Blast Mine is given me a hell of a head start in a chase.
Yes, it´s perfect!
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@Superyoshiegg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2330467#Comment_2330467
No thank you.
I for one was not a fan of Killers able to essentially lag-switch at will by merely throttling their connection.
I have 2,5k hours in DbD.
I can count the amount of killers lag switching me on 1 hand.
I don´t have enough hands to count the amount of times i got dedicated.
@DelsKibara correct.
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@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2330440#Comment_2330440
so what are some changes they could make that wouldnt ruin the game for the rest of the playerbase then?
Just a few examples that would make the game better for everyone:
- adjusting killer hit boxes to be the same size as survivor hit boxes. Which would reduce the running in circles meta.
- removal of bloodlust (bandaid that was only required because killers have a bigger hitbox)
- introduction of additional objectives like refilling some gens with gasoline (including new items: gas can) and repairing some gens with parts. For balance reasons, this should be best applied to the strategic gens. Preventing at the same time that killers lose 2 or 3 gens in the first chase while also avoiding that survivors 3 gen themselves accidentaly
- removal of the 8k point limit per category. People shouldn´t be punished points wise, when the specialize on chases, gens or healing.
- introduction of bonus bloodpoint items for survivors. Which give more points in exchange of gimping certain things. Like applying the Oblivious status effect while the item is equipped. But giving 100% bonus points for every action while holding the item. Just like the addons that basically remove the killers ability. On top of that, all bonus point items/perks/addons should apply those points after the match. No Mither should also receive bonus bloodpoints.
Those are just a few things, that come right into my mind and would help both sides.
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Should the game be balanced around the highest skill rate? Of course it should.
Or could you imagine a R6, LoL or CS getting balanced around bronze or silver ranks?
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Trickster and nurse don't even play in the same league.
So no, it's not you. The Trickster is simply bad.
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Ah yes, dedicated servers. The thing everyone wanted and everyone hates equally.
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@ChiSoxFan11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2330400#Comment_2330400
As do I! I can't count the number of times I've scurried away from a gen saying out loud, "Kick it ... kick it ..." and bursting out laughing when I see the notification of the blind.
As someone who couldn't use a flashlight if their life depended on it, I've found it invaluable as well to finish off old Rift challenges that required a blind of the killer.
And the bloodpoints! 400 points for stunning the killer. Been toying around with blast mine and flashbang. Still need to time the flashbang better. But the blast mine is just the best perk ever!
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@ChiSoxFan11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2330397#Comment_2330397
Same here. I can remember seeing them multiple times in a long session of playing survivor (4-5 hours of gameplay a night, 3-4 nights a week) before the change. Now, I see them maybe once a week in the same amount of gameplay. As killer, I almost never ran them, except for a daily. Now, I'm as likely to run Devour Hope to get those daily challenges done.
I have a daily to kill a survivor with my own hands. I'm hesitant, because it's a event. I'll probably use Rancor instead.
Don't even want to count all the useless moris I've stacked up over the years. What a waste.
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@ChiSoxFan11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2330392#Comment_2330392
I ran that combo when I was doing the Red Herring Rift Challenge. I imagine the killer ... was not happy with me, lol. 😆
I ran red herring before. But discarded it as a perk to troll other survivors. But now with blast mine...
I love blast mine!
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You guys are still using/seeing moris?
I haven't seen one since... damn, I can't even remember.
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@ChiSoxFan11 said:
For strictly meme purposes, I think Red Herring and Blast Mine has as much comedic potential as well.
You... Monster!
*instantly equips those perks to the same thing*
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@WeenieDog said:
that just gives me flashbacks of deathgarden balancing. Buffing one side hoping for them to play nice, only to find out that they don't because ... why?
They nerfed camo, buffed stamina, added the insane idea of being able to reload while sprint boosting, with the hopes that making runners easier to keep up with and down would entice hunters to not insta-cute them.... nope.
good faith balancing never really works.
Deathgarden died because neither side was fun to play.
Its not good faith balancing, when the Undying Ruin meta actually reduced camping and tunneling. Because killers only got value out of this combo, when they constantly switched targets.
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@bluedusef said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2328656#Comment_2328656
Yeah i agree some are not great, but it still makes games extremely boring and it wont stop killers STACKING those anti gen perks ontop of one another so i would nerf all of them if u were to put organic slowdowns in.Pop is not weak at all, ruin when it gets a good spot is not a weak perk. its weak when it gets a stupid placement like right by a gen or in the open for everybody too see.
Ruin does only something, when the killer isn´t tunneling or camping. Which is what the original Undying Ruin combo caused.
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@Kebek said:
I don't think you can extend the duration of one side's objective without directly touchning the other one as well. I'd be nice if all camping/tunneling stemmed out of the gen rush problem but it does not, besides the toxic camping/tunneling just for sake of toxicity (which is valid as well, just more boring), there are many other situations where killer can just chose to camp/tunnel only to crush survivors faster and more effectively.
Both of those scenarios would be significantly buffed with straight up second objective for both sides.
What we need is proper balancing of all maps and loops + the most important one = the spawn points need to be hard set and rebalanced for each map (in a way that stop survivors from instantly spawning on 4 seperate gens).
If all that is done and it still doesn't help with the game pacing. Then we can consider solutions that involve giving survivros another objective AND the same for killers, not exactly another objective but something that would made it much harder to just use camping/tunneling to get someone out asap for free while survivors are busy with their new objective.
Yes I know, survivros at top level have tools to counter camping/tunneling and have significantly easier time to finish their objective easily but we need to consider solutions that apply to at least your general average match where neither side has that big of an advantage over the other one, usually those are exactly the games where the better players win.
Spawnpoints are a problem. But changing them alone, won´t solve the problem. Killers take Corrupt Intervention and the only thing it changes is which gens get done first. Sure, the killer might get 1 or 2 early hooks. But then survivors kick in their gen repair and we are back at square 1, where survivors complete 2 or 3 gens in a single chase.
The game needs to be balanced around high rank gameplay. Because there it´s not exacly the better players that win.
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@Damarus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/262946/2-sides-of-the-same-problem-and-a-solution
So you are proposing a change ONLY to gens, but not to camping and tunneling. Both sides are considered, but only one is offered something to eat. There will always be those who camp and tunnel, because they don't know how to play, otherwise. And there will always be those who farm you on hook, only care about gens and not teammates or anything else. Giving an OPTION doesn't fix it. You have to deter it. You have to make it so a survivor on hook doesn't lose progress if the killer is camping him. You have to make it so the killer can never get Bloodlust (or only tier 1 bloodlust), and lose it on a missed hit, not just on stuns and lost chases. That's how you solve the killer issue. And regarding survivors and gens, while I do think that stuff could be used and MAYBE work, you aren't the first to propose it. And if the devs ignored it ever since, I can't really see how they are going to do something about it right now.
Your proposal would absolutely kill killers.
- hook timer was tested before and abused by survivors
- bloodlust is a bandaid to the difference in hitbox sizes. If killers could take a loop as close as survivors, then sure, take bloodlust away. But it has to stay until then. Or you will see even less hooks during a match.
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@bluedusef said:
If you were gonna make added objectives which naturally slow the game down without the use of perks, then u would need to nerf all the slowdown perks because killers will just continue to use those perks and use the increased advantage.
solo queue is in desperate need of buffs.
Actually most of the supposed gen slowdown perks are kinda weak right now. So the added objectives would put them in the right place, without the need of nerfing them.
The only buff solos need is a ping system or ingame voice chat.
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@Laluzi said:
While I like the idea in theory... a lot of killer players aren't going to relax their game style just because they can now afford to. Tunneling works and many players are just gunning for the 4ks no matter what. It's not going to be any less effective because survivors have more things they need to do - if anything, it becomes more powerful by decreasing the effectiveness of the 'just do gens and leave a facecamped player to die' strategy, and making it so that tunneling an extremely good looper is less punishing than it is now.
Increasing the game length would need to come with actual gameplay penalties that make camping and tunneling less effective if you wanted to actually see a lessening of unfun gameplay from the killer side - otherwise this is a straight nerf to survivors with a prayer that killers will ease up if they feel like it won't lose them the game. Some will, but for some, 'the game goes too fast so I have to!' was always an excuse and they would do it anyway.
Remember, the killer needs 12 hooks. Most of the time, even good killers get barely 5 or 6 hooks before all gens are completed. Thats a 100% objective completion vs a 50%. To give killers an incentive, they could increase the points for the first hook and add a bonus for hooking everyone once before proceeding to the second hook. Same for the last hook.
Sure, there will still be insidious basement bubbas that dont care. But those are a minority. If you ask killers WHY the camp&tunnel, most of them will give you the same answer.
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@lauraa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2328578#Comment_2328578
I would love an iri addon that gave zombies the ability to sacrifice dying second stage survivors as well as an addon that turns dead survivors into an extra zombie. Neither of those would be useful, but man those would be fun.
While it sure would be fun, i assume that killers would tunnel hard to get some additional zombies. Which ruins it for everyone else.
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@oxygen said:
I think an objective more dynamic than simply doing generators and then gates would be great, and gathering parts and stuff is one of my favorite theoretical ways of implementing that. But it's also not something I can imagine working wonderfully if slapped on top of the game as it is now. That sounds like a far more comprehensive objective rework, likely involving many changes to perks, items, base mechanics/values and whatever else.
Most perks and items could stay the same + this would allow for a complete new line of perks/items.
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@Seanzu said:
So the proposal is, make the game easier for killers by extending game time, but possibly giving survivors more bloodpoints (if they hit a skillcheck)? lmao
Doesn't matter how many bps I get if I get camped / tunelled it's likely to be below 10K anyway, lmao
Killers camp&tunnel because survivors rush gens.
Survivors rush gens because killers camp&tunnel.
By extending the gametime, killer wouldn´t go full tryhard in an attempt to recover from a almost lost match. Which was the case during the period, where Undying Ruin was meta. No one complained about camping or tunneling killers. Survivors complained about how that perk combo wins the game for killers.
EDIT: Typo
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@TDZ_Luke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2327838#Comment_2327838
You're right there isn't, there's only respawn time, but now that I think of it, increasing the number of zombies would make for a good addon
The depleted Ink addon made me hope for a zombie army waiting at the exit gates. But sadly, there only spawns 1 zombie.
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They just need to make event offerings a different rarity/cetegory than event items. So survivors have a higher chance of getting some cake. Instead of getting either a flashlight, medkit or a cake.
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@TDZ_Luke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2327283#Comment_2327283
That’s why you push them to the ones that aren’t ;) if it helps you, put on the add ons that spawn more zombies or increase zombie speed
There are no "spawn more zombies" addons. There will always be only 2 zombies. When i have to go to the other end of the map, to smash that stuck zombie in the hope that he spawns somewhere more useful, then i´m losing a ton of pressure.
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Umbrella tried to silence him.
And now you want to do the same?!
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@TDZ_Luke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2326100#Comment_2326100
That’s why you push survivors towards them
Not when they are stuck on the corner of the map or stuck in a hill.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2326307#Comment_2326307
I never said it did. All I said was your assertion that you can rely on solo teammates was incorrect.
Sometimes you get good teammates. Sometimes you get bad teammates.
That's why I have my hope up for the new mmr.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2325049#Comment_2325049
What universe are you living in? You can never rely on your teammates in solo que. You might get lucky and get good teammates. More often than not though they will throw the game with how bad they are.
If you have constantly bad teammates that throw you under the bus.
Than that's a different problem and has nothing to do with the actual game.
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@TDZ_Luke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2325675#Comment_2325675
No I don't lmao. Yeah they can be slow but in certain scenarios they can block off loops (I have footage if you really want it) and in indoor maps is where they are strongest.
Today I've had like 10 matches with Nemesis. Not a single indoor map. On the other maps the zombies are almost useless.
That's why he should have a way to "limit" zombies to preferred areas or the map.
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@WexlerWendigo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2325903#Comment_2325903
Yeah, when a survivor runs to a pallet, and just stands at it, rather than looping around, that’s ‘camping’ the pallet.
Ah no, i don´t do that. I´m more a holding shift + w guy.
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@WexlerWendigo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2325882#Comment_2325882
Hopefully not that you camp pallets like most Jane players
You can camp pallets?!
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I main Jane. What does that say about me?
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The only sparkling one i´m hunting down is this one.
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@TDZ_Luke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2321579#Comment_2321579
the one that can break off loops completely, whether there's a zombie blocking it or not, nemesis can break pallets quicker than any other killer, down survivors who aren't even near him, AND he doesn't always have to hit survivors 3 times, the zombies can infect survivors too
So you play Billy with Lopro Chains? That explains, why you have a different experience.
Oh and its really hard to get downed by zombies. They are slow and easy to lose.
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@FreakPrince said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2324952#Comment_2324952
I've yet to see a survivor escaping with only 11k.
Here you go
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Considering that after the key nerf anouncement, they introduced hatch offerings and nerfed Franklyns to not destroy items like keys anymore. I´d say that the key nerf comes probably never.
Maybe something like reducing the aura reading and thats about it.
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@Shirtless_Myers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2325049#Comment_2325049
Tell me more about how often and common three solo queue players manage to beat one of the best killer players than from a DC from start to finish.
WGLF is inconsistent unless you're throwing games in some matches by rushing the hooks when you should have been on generators for your team. It's not a bad perk, but you're not getting four stacks every single game like BBQ.
You can't rely on your teammates in every game, and that's the point. Solo is considerably worse than killer because you never know what you'll be getting. Dying on the first hook is very common for an experience in solo.
Survivor is the easier role, but playing as the killer is better than most solo games.
Never claimed it happens always. Also, why do you start with 3 solos managing to beat the best killer players? Apples and Oranges? The best survivor players loop even the best killers for 2 or 3 minutes. When the other survivors aren´t idle, then thats enough time to gens. So whats your point exactly? Does it happen every match? No and i repeat, i never claimed that. Is it possible? Sure!
Since WGLF stacks are so easy to get, a 4 stack is almost always possible.
Can´t remember the last time i died on my first hook.
Playing killer is better than what? Survivor is easier, more relaxing, not as stressful as killer. Because survivors have each other, there are 4 survivors, tons of second chance perks that all allow for a comeback.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2324702#Comment_2324702
So that's the funny thing, since Survivors are required to escape for the Crown, that means they're more likely to genrush!
Correct.
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@Shirtless_Myers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2324998#Comment_2324998
Against any killer worth their salt, they will lose in a 3v1. Survivors are only the power role when the group is good and coordinated; most are not.
If the killer only has three hooks while a group has done four generators, they're playing poorly and not equipping a better setup/build. Yes, killers can make mistakes, yet nobody wants to admit that.
WGLF isn't always worth running compared to BBQ. If it was, why is it such a rare perk to notice in normal gameplay? Because you can't guarantee four stacks as you can with BBQ unless you go out of your way to unhook multiple survivors when you probably should have finished or done a generator for your team.
Survivor isn't rough in a group because you can rely on your teammates. In solo play, I can get players of varying skills with differing objectives set to where it's comparable to a perk roulette.
A survivor group that is worth their salt, can and will manage to turn around a 3v1. Doesn´t even need to be a SWF group.
Killers don´t need to play poorly to only get 3 or 4 hooks. Happens even to the best streamers.
WGLF is on my basekit. I always use it, when i have it.
Survivors can also rely on their teammates when playing solo. Sure, some teammates are terrible. But once you get used to not taking things personally, its great.