Troman
Troman
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Pressing M1 has already become a problem with 70% killrate and needs to be addressed.
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Killers are just selfish kids, that have 70% killrate and all they do to win is just press M1 and they still complain about everything. They are being spoon-fed by the DEVs like little spoiled kids.
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@Viktor1853 said:
bad bait why dont you try too play killer survivor is more ez to play
Read: https://steamcommunity.com/app/381210/discussions/0/1607148447812100915/
In this experiment I played Wraith before all his buffs - the weakest killer that was available at that time and I had killrate of 2.9k. And I'm bad at killer, I still stomp 80% of survivors. Later I tried leveling up further, it does get harder in red ranks with Wraith, but I switched to several different killers and it became easy again. With Spirint I was stomping almost any survivor group.
But this thread is not about killer-survivor balance, it's about solo vs Swf vs Killer balance. Solo sucks not because solo survivors are bad, but because the balance is broken for solo. When I play solo my escape rate is 25%, when I play 2-man SWF without comms, it rises to 40-50%. If I play killer,I win in 70-80% of all games. Do I suddenly get better as survivor when playing SWF? I rarely play killer and I'm bad at mindgames, am I just a god-like killer? Of course not, it's just a matter of broken game balance.
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@Edgars_Raven said:
Solo que is bad because most survivors do extremely foolish things, especially in the lower ranks. Reds its not that bad
That's a foolish thing to say. I meet just as many foolish killers, but it's not a matter of foolishnes, it's a matter of balance, or do you think survivors suddenly become much smarter playing SWF? No, SWF just changes balance between solo and SWF. Sme thing about killer-survivor balance.
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@FancyMrB said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2300357#Comment_2300357
Adding coms isn't going to stop toxic people from being toxic. We all already deal with hate messages in this game.
Coms, however, will give people the ability to communicate and hopefully have more fun/engaging matches.
Adding coms doesn't mean everyone has to be on coms 24/7. You can choose to leave coms off if that is your thing, or... and I know this may shock you, but if someone is flaming and being a bully in chat... there is a mute button.
Not adding positive things to a game because jerks exist is backwards thinking. There will always be jerks, but that shouldn't stop me from being able to talk, meet people, and coordinate with my team.
DEVs said once that they don't want to add coms and I hope they never will. It just doesn't fit the game and here in Europe it's gonna be useless for many people anyway. And there's just no need for coms, there are other ways to fix soloQ.
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Overpowered SWF, weak soloQ, camping and tunneling and the only major balance issues left in the game. I wish DEVs would finally start fixing them.
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@Kees_T said:
The only thing one side have which the other don't is communication, and that can be resolved by simply adding a wheel of pre-made messages to say "I'm being chased", "The Killer is near me", "I'm going for the save", and much other messages, that will make a massive change to improve solo. It's not equals or better than voice communication, but it improves the game for like, 80%.
There's no need for messages, no need to re-invent the wheel, just add all that information to the HUD. "I'm being chased" is already implemented for the obsession. Implement it for all players. "The Killer is near me" - add a beating heart icon to the survivor HUD, whenever a survivor hears a heartbeat. "I'm going for the same" - just implement kindred as a basekit, without Killer aura. Or, alternatively, show when a survivor is sprinting on the HUD and repairing gens. If someone gets hooked and prior to that everyone was doing gens or at least no one was sprinting and suddenly started doing so, then it's clear he went for a save. That's actually a LOT of information and a lot more can be inferred from it.
This way you don't have to waste time to press any buttons to send messages, there will be no messages spam by kids. And there will always be people, who will refuse to share any information by sending messages. An automatic system (more HUD info) is much better in any regard.
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@MarcoPoloYolo said:
If the peak of survivors destroy the peak of killers, then there's something wrong. Survivors are like Nurse. Most aren't even at an intermediate level, but they have ridiculous potential (though weirdly enough, some of the potential does not require skill, which is why it's weird that there's so many bad survivors).
You have the potential to become a murderer, I mean you have 2 hands, you can hold a gun or a weapon. You must be put into jail.
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@toxik_survivor said:
You should look in the red rank data my friend
There you go my friend: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/106566/ 70% killrate in red ranks. Enjoy.
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@van9684 said:
A 4K for the killer across ranks? The stats show the majority of games are in favor of the killer, and that over 70% are 4k rounds. How can people say the game is at all survivor biased when the data shows otherwise?
Because most killers are utterly egocentric, that's why they enjoy playing killer alone, they will complain even if killrate is gonna be 100%.
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@landromat said:
Honeslty killers feel weak at 50% kill rate. Should be at least 60% to not make them look silly
Don't be egocentric, survivors are not there for you to have fun, they want to have fun too, that's the purpose of the game. Which role you play doesn't matter.
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MMR won't gong to buff soloQ in any way. The balance of soloQ is simply broken too much and it can't be fixed with changing survivor ranks.
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@Moundshroud said:
It should work exactly the same as the Killer Perk: Insidious, i.e. there are no tokens. The Survivor must remain immobile for three seconds. The aura will remain hidden until the Survivor moves again. That's it.
That actually sounds interesting. Adds a little strategy to it.
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@Devotion said:
The game is killer sided now. I love how no one will admit that. the excuses in this thread are funny.
But ... but ... survivors are just all bad and killers are god-like, doesn't it explain everything, no?
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We just need Adrenaline perk for them - "You are fuelled by unexpected energy when on the verge of chapter release". When a new chapter is finished, instantly fix all game bugs and write game code at 150 % of your normal code writing speed for 3 weeks.
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Official escape stats per map from DEVs (2018 I think) https://ibb.co/L0tk5bx
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2289263#Comment_2289263
Are those the most recent stats, though?
I don't know what the most recent stats are, I remember in 2019 the stats looked the same https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/106566/ , around 30% escape rate in red ranks and I remember somewhere in a separate thread DEVs said that DCs were excluded. They have to write it explicitly for each stats, otherwise DCs are used as excuse, although as i said, DEVs confirmed that excluding DCs doesn't change the stats by any significant margin.
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Image Escape-Rate hosted in ImgBB
That's the official DEVs stats picture from 2018, look at the bottom right corner. After the first release of escape stats DEVs were criticized because they didn't filter out DCs, after that all escape stats were without DCs, although DEVs stated that including or excluding DC didn't really change much.
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@justbecause said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2289066#Comment_2289066
Games With dc were ignored according to devs so yeah
Don't tell them that, have a pity, they will have to think of a different excuse now.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2289101#Comment_2289101
The starting killers were weak. Over the years they added stronger killers, for sure. But maps are still rediculously strong as long as people know how to run them
As much as I play killer. You can always tell the ones with experience over potatoes. There's a LOT more potatoes then amazing survivors
Also TRUE infinites existed back then.
Games were dominated by Billy (non-nerfed version) and then Nurse (non-nerfed). They are the deadlies killers. My point is, it's surely not because survivors are bad, game balance was changed a lot. Window blockers, pallets nerfs, vault nerfs, stealth was destroyed. Exhaustion perks were nerfed to the ground several times, same with self-care. The balance is broken now in favor of killers, except for occasional seal squad SWF, and official stats prove it.
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@Alice_pbg said:
survivors get to red ranks easily. so a lot of red ranks aren't actually very good at the game.
a single bad survivor on a team potentially turns it into a 3v1. which is a lot easier for killers to deal with.
So, was matchmaking god-like when the game just released and Killers had 30% killrate? It's a rhetorical question. No need to answer.
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@BrokenSouI said:
Mostly..Survivors are potatoes and do stupid #########. Maps are heavily survivor sided, but a lot of survivors don't know how to run them.
When after the game release the killrate was about 30-40%, was it because killers were so dumb and suddenly because so smart? It surely didn't change because Killers were complaining everywhere and DEVs added window blockers, slow vaults etc, did it?
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Hag, Legion, Doc. Actually it's easier to say which killers are NOT annoying, than the opposite.
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That's surely not DC. DEVs released several stats in t he past where they clearly stated that games with DCs were ignored and killers had killrate of about 65-70%.
The reason is, killers only remember 1-2 games vs seal squads and forget 8 4k games vs solo survivors. After each game vs a seal squad killers rush to this forum requesting survivor nerfs "SuRvIvOrS ArE Op!!"
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@4eyed said:
All legion does is just make the game about chases. That’s literally the only interesting part of a match.
Maybe it's interesting for Legion players, but it's annoying for survivors, when you know that this homing x-ray killer will hit you no matter what and you must mend and mend and mend.
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@ManyAchievables said:
- Don't heal.
- Split up.
- Literally just play the video game well.
Do these and Legion will lose almost every time.
You can just rephase it as "don't get hit". That's a nice universal counter for all killer powers, I don't know why anyone even complains. Sarcasm mode off.
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@Adjatha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2289029#Comment_2289029
Catching and hitting a survivor who knows how to loop entirely depends on them making a mistake. The much vaunted "Mind Games" that people love to throw around is just another way of saying "hope they make a mistake." This game is built in such a way that you depend on the other side making mistakes and playing poorly at every turn.
Again, if you rely on opponents mistake, that's not a counter. How many times do you see Legion missing a hit? It's mostly potatos, if you play in red ranks, you can't rely on it. Any killer power needs a least SOME kind of counter, that's the basic principle of any game.
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@Adjatha said:
It has a counter. If Legion attacks and misses, the Feral Frenzy immediately ends and they get stunned. Try juking and circling.
If it relies on Legion's mistake, it's not really a counter. I think lockers should block that x-ray, that would be fair.
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@OopsAllHexes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2283287#Comment_2283287
Watch tournament footage and you'll change this tune quickly.
If a Survivor doesn't make mistakes in their fundamentals, the Killer cannot "mindgame" a Survivor. It is impossible to do so, since they will always be too well positioned. They have to use their power to end the chase, which is why Nurse and Spirit are so popular, and why they get complained about.
Even if you leave the Survivor, it doesn't matter, since you need them to get downed to prevent them from doing gens.
The game IS in their favor at the higher levels, 100%. If you watch footage, you'll see what I mean. 10-20 second chases are mandatory.
Who cares about tournaments, 99.9% of survivors don't play on that level. How is DBD survivor sided if kill rate is 70%?
I play Killer once in 2 years, I made an experiment and played Wraith before he received all his updates and most of my games were 4k and 3k. It was EXTREMEY easy. Rarely would I get a seal squad and have 1k or 0k. And I'm so bad at mindgames as killer. I posted all results of that experiment with screenshot on Steam forum about a year ago. If you can't win as a killer you must just git gud. Killer has never been as easy as it it now. Right now DBD is killer sides with official killrate of 70%. Learn to play.
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@Pulsar said:
I think my escape rate is something like 75% when playing Solo. I'm a big coward and I don't loop that well, so I do gens and stay immersed.
I used to be like that when the game just released. Get Window of Opportunity and learn to loop. If you can combine stealth and looping, the game is even more fun.
@Boss said:
I'd love to have this tool.
I'm not posting links here, but GitHub is your friend 😉
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@darktrix said:
Escape rate depends on many factors, luck being a major one. Things such as playing more selfish, knowing how not to be the first (or last) target of the killer, or offering up other survivors as sacrifices in order to get the hatch (hook farming), you will increase your own escape rate at the cost of others.
So it all makes complete sense. More altruistic players who go for saves at end game tend to have a lower survival rate as well as opposed to those who just escape and leave the other survivors to their fate.
I go for saves, but only if I see that no one else goes for it or if someone is about to enter the struggle phase or die. I use Kindred.
The problem is, saves are important, but if you can get just as many BP from not doing gens and not escaping (and my average BP was even below the average BP after 30 games), survivors will not even try to escape. Why bother? It defeats the purpose of the game in my opinion.
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@Hopesfall said:
i still think it should be a timed perk like Corrupt Intervention. 3-4 mins guaranteed.
While I don't know if this particular idea is the best one, but less RNG = better game balance. This way newbs would get a chance against Ruin, because sometimes they can't find it the entire game. While skilled survivors won't be able to destroy it in 20 seconds, because they know all the spots where it can spawn. At the end it'll be easier to balance the game. It would also result in a more even balance for different maps.
So, make ruin guaranteed to last for a certain time amount to slow down games against coordinated SWF/high skilled survivors, in return limit it's effect over large amount of time, to give newbs a chance.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/953762#Comment_953762
I don't believe that's how it works.
When the map roll lands on Lery's it would get another roll as to which of the variations you get. I don't think it actually adds all 5 variations to the initial roll which would result in Lery's happening more often.
AFAIK that's how it works, so we would get Lery more often. In the past the game would first choose a realm randomly and then choose a map, but it resulted some maps being chosen way too often, if they were the only ones in the realm, so they changed it to make number of realm maps affect the probability of a certain realm to be chosen, so basically all maps are on the initial roll. It was a while back, but I think they didn't change it back.
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New Kindred.
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Offerings are useless for the most part, unless you desperately need BP, so why bother, if you just play for fun. If there was an offering to avoid an indoor map, I'd use it every game though.
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I already suggested it in another thread, will do it again: for Kindred as a basekit remove Killer aura reading completely. Instead add an indicator showing if killer is inside the 16m radius (or some other radius) of the hooked survivor. It can be done in any possible way: by adding some icon, by changing hooked survivor's aura color, it doesn't matter.
This way the OP killer aura reading is gone (as survivor you don't have any precise info about the killer anymore) and solo survivors still know if the killer is camping or not.
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@PrincessPoop said:
Closing the gap between solos and SWF should be a top priority for BHVR.
Exactly. That's the biggest issue in the game right now, which also cases other problems, like inability to properly balance Killers vs SWF or balance certain perks, which are weak for solo and are OP for SWF.
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@immortalls96 said:
Seeing where the killer goes even when even the hooked survivor cant see them is very very powerful..kindred as a perk is nearly broken..base kit its game breaking
I agree with that. I'm against any aura readings of the opposite side, which gives too precise info. Survivors shouldn't see killer aura near the hook, but they should be able to tell if the killer is near or not. Just a simple: yes/no, without knowing what the killer is doing, where exactly he is and where he is heading to.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/940546#Comment_940546
Yea but that's not how that works. Power creep is when you buff things to the point it breaks the game. SWF breaks the game, therefore you are saying we should break the REST of the game so that it doesn't matter SWF breaks the game.
Like imagine every killer being at pre-rework Nurse levels or better. With the already above 60% kill rate we have now (in some cases as high as 75%). You REALLY want this to be the game? I certainly don't.
You are seriously over-simplifying how "balanced" the game would be at this point. We have a balanced game now. Killer V solos is balanced pretty well. You're asking the devs to toss all that and come up with an entirely new balance point. Things don't work like that. You just destroy the core design of the game.
Again imagine Halo where everyone starts with a Rocket Launcer. In theory that's balanced but in practice it's crap. Skill is irrelevant, everyone is both a God and a noob. It's fun in small doses as a meme side-mode but as the primary mode it's just a totally different game.
You guys have little understanding of how game design actually works.
You are confusing some fundamental things here. Like everything else, "broken" is relative. SWF is broken not because of it's nature, but because its nature gives advantages to SWF and makes it so much more powerful against killers. If you buff killers to compensate those advantages that SWF gives to its members, SWF suddenly becomes not broken anymore. That's why everyone is talking about buffing solo and killers to the level of SWF. Also, that's the only way for killers to be buffed against SWF, because unless solo is buffed DEVs won't buff killers, otherwise solo would be in an even worse state than now. Solo q and killers are in the same boat here. It has nothing to do with "rocket lauchers" in Halo...
I don't know why this simple idea is so hard to grasp for some people, really. Some people have too many phobias.
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@DwightOP said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/936756#Comment_936756
I mean, nurse felt from her killer rate around 7% aswell (from pre nerf to after nerf). She became from one of the deadliest to one of the weakest killers according to statistics. 7% doesn't sound much, but from experience it's actually very impactful
The secret to Nurse is the same as SWF. Her theoretical performance ceiling is much higher than ceiling of any other killer just like performance ceiling of SFW is higher than solo. But she is harder to master, so because of that the real performance gap/spread between bad nurses and very good nurses is much bigger than for any other killer. She feels very powerful and can be devastating in skilled hands, and sometimes you meet such nurse players. But few very good nurses get compensated by the larger number of newbs/unskilled/console nurse players, so that stats don't look that impressive for her (but they are legit nonetheless, it's an average).
SWF's high potential gets compensated by fooling-around and ultra-altruistic gameplay, which brings it back almost to the solo level, though sometimes you meet teams that play seriously and those are the cases when you feel the full potential of SWF.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/936863#Comment_936863
Or to rephrase. Even if it's ok balance wise, there are still problems beyond just balance.
Yes, balance is ok, at least for killers and SWF. But the experience/fun for killers and solo is not. And fun is actually the main reason why we play games. And the main culprit for it is the huge gap in theoretical performance between Solo and SWF, not in the actual one in form of escape rates.
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@knell said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/936739#Comment_936739
It's really not a contradiction, but more about how the data was inferred.
When Almo had last attempted to mock and minimalize the effect of the ~7% difference, this is the response I gave him:
For example, let's say that you have two sets of data: 100 games of solo games, and 100 games of 4-SWF games.
If the results of those 100 games of solos, in which every player attempted to fulfill their goal (surviving and killing) to the best of their abilities, is 200 escapes out of 400, it would result in a 50% survival rate.
Let's continue to suppose that in the 100 games of 4-SWF, 85 of these matches contain players who are "We just want to have fun with our friends - we're not even trying to win - most of the time, we just troll each other haha" crowd that we constantly, constantly see on the forums. Basically these are the majority of players who are not even attempting their best to fulfill their goal of surviving and instead, continually choose to make blatant bad decisions (over-altruism, overconfidence, etc) due to their focus being more on socializing with each other than actually focusing on the game. Let's say they are able to have 2 survivors escape on average (170 Escapes), in which their terrible gameplay decisions are offset by the advantage of communication. The other 15 matches have players who are 4-SWF who are actually trying their best to win (just like the killers) and are able to make good use of the advantage that they have. Let's say they are all able to 4-man escape (60 Escapes).
This 4-SWF scenario results in 230 escapes out of 400 or a survival rate of 57.5%, a survival rate increase of 7.5% compared to the games of solos, which is very close to the 7% you have presented yourself.
...as a developer, does that sound fair for the killers to you? Does it sound like a balanced game from the standpoint of game design? A game in which, if SWF is actually choosing to play to the best of their abilities, they are pretty much guaranteed to dominate the killer with a 100% win, and if SWF is just "having fun" or "trolling" or "memeing," they have an EQUAL chance of winning as the killers who are, unlike the SWF, trying their hardest to the best of their abilities?
This scenario doesn't even consider the ranking differences or incidences in which SWF chooses to DC all at once.
What's most disappointing is that this trivialization of the solo/SWF difference is coming directly from a developer - as if they have not an ounce of concern for the repeated outcry to balance the game for Solos/SWFs that's been going on for years. Despite the fact that it breaks the balance of the game, and makes the "buffs" and "nerfs" of killers meaningless since we don't even know what the killers are being balanced against. Despite the fact that it has continually been labeled as "unfun" from majority of people who don't play any SWF (whether as a solo survivor or killers) since its inception - and even now on the steam forum, has one of the longest threads (if not THE longest thread) on the problem of SWF. Despite these facts, developers such as @Almo continues to ignore the problem and pretend that they hardly matter. At times like this, I feel truly bad for Dead by Daylight - the game, for having developers who just seemingly don't care much about it.
That's exactly what I'm trying to say, although SWF might have similar escape stats, but they are having much more fun, because they have a much higher potential compared to solo. And a killer is on average much more frustrated in games vs SWF, even if such games' escape rates are close to escape rates of solo survivors.
But just as a sidenote, it doesn't change anything about the killrates stats, it just means that as a killer you will be more frustrated in games vs SWF even if you get the same number of kills as vs a solo team. I'm not saying it's ok though.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/936756#Comment_936756
I think the main issue for why it doesn't make sense is because we are looking at stats for kill rates. For example, you may see a 4k but in reality he had only 2 hooks before all gens were done and the gates were powered. He got a 4k because of things like NOED or as you mentioned all the SWF swarmed him trolling around at end game. That's why kill rates for determining how balanced killers are is very flawed. The 4k makes the killer look like he was strong or played well when he really didn't. It gives a false balance reading.
We'd fix this issue "mostly" by looking at pip rates instead. As this would allow us to separate games like the example I mentioned and see that he really didn't "win". I say mostly because we still have quite a few killers that get artificially punished with the current pip system with things such as one shots, but that can be easily fixed and ruins the "stats" much less than the more numerous flaws in going by kill rates.
"And to be honest I'm very surprised that the difference between randoms and 4-man SWF is just 7%"
Me as well, which is where my post of "contradictions" comes from as if it really was just 7% then their logic for changes between solo and swf doesn't make sense. I think the reality of it is that there are indeed A LOT of factors influencing the kill rates to such a significant degree to where they're near worthless. The devs kind of mentioned this as you said, but I think they down played how significant those factors are with the wording they chose.
It depends on what you want to express with stats, it also depends on how you define "victory", is it 3k-4k or a pip? I think for post killers it is number of kills. Let's be honest, if we want to know how "deadly" the killer is, then kill rate does its purpose and there is no better criteria that would be as simple. Really, there is none.
It doesn't tell us "why" and "how" someone got 4k and it's not supposed to, we just want to see how many survivors certain killer manages to kill on average, because most killers' main goal is to kill as many as possible. It doesn't matter if someone got 4k because of NOED or snowballing. Simplified (!), the killrate tells us, that if you play a certain killer and all factors in your games that influence the killrate are close to playerbase' average (it will be the case for most players), you will get a similar killrate.
I don't really know what you mean with "strong". I think a killer who gets 4k on average is stronger than a killer who gets 1k on average. Don't forget one important thing: we are talking about averages, so (again, simplified) on average both killers will get the same amount of NOED players, the same amount of snowballing games, same amount of over-altruistic SWF teams, so it doesn't matter if during a certain game someone wins because he snowballed, the other killer will also have such a game. It all gets averaged out, for all killers and for any large period of time, so killrates stay comparable and consistent, that's a sign of a good metric.
I think what many people mean, when saying that killrates don't reflect everything, is not the real performance but a theoretical performance. And indeed, if we compare a theoretical performance of SWF to a solo team, there will be a bigger difference than stats show us. And because of that bigger potential which SWF has, good coordinated SWF teams can play relaxed and bully the killer 90% of the game and die to being over-altruistic at the end, while solo survivors have to sweat to get the same result. So, what killrate doesn't reflect is the fun/frustration factor during games and theoretical potential, but it does reflect "deadliness" correctly.
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@Blueberry said:
Kind of side related, but I find it interesting that were told that there is no real significant survival increase as a SWF when killers complain about how broken it is, however at the same time they tell us they want to decrease the gap between solo and swf because of how significant the difference is.
This just sounds so contradicting.
So which is it, is SWF significant or not? If it wasn't significant then why are they trying to close the gap.
I'm not trying to start a conversation about whether SWF is op or not here, just pointing out the inconsistency of the information we've been given.
Stats reflect how deadly each killer is, based on the kill rate, but they don't reflect the experience during games. 4-man SWF team can humiliate the killer the entire game and when one member is hooked when all gens are done, the game can easily snowball, because SWF don't want to let their member die. For me that's one of the biggest reasons for this "contradiction".
And to be honest I'm very surprised that the difference between randoms and 4-man SWF is just 7%, it looks very strange to me. For those stats DEVs admitted that they had errors in that data for red ranks, maybe it influenced solo vs SWF stats too, I hope we will get new stats concerning solo vs SWF.
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I think what DEVs meant is that Kindred as a basekit gives too much details when you can see the killer aura. Not only can you see that the killer is near the hooked person, but you can also see what exactly he is doing and where exactly he is standing or which way he is heading.
I know, I know, SWF kind of has access to that info, but I think in case with Kindred as a basekit this info it's just too precise for DEVs liking.
If that's really the case, they can just hide the killer aura and make the hooked person change color when the killer is within x meters of the hooked survivor. Or put a skull above him when killer is near or whatever. The killer aura is not really necessary if Kindred becomes basekit, just let us see other survivors and let us know if the killer is camping or not.
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P2P when? /s
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That's the problem, 4 (coordinated) SWF members make the game hard for killer. But 4 solo survivors is just a survivor stomp. That's why the gap between solo and SWF must be closed.
Even if 4-man SWF's survival rate is only higher by 7% compared to solo, SWF can afford to be ultra altruistic and cocky and still maintain a survival rate that is higher than solo and coordinated SWF is definitely more annoying to play against.
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What do you think is the next? Ruin? Moris?
Yes, I hope moris are next, along with keys.
It makes no sense if you can make the game so much easier for you and harder for the opposing team without any trade-offs.
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@poyant said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/934506#Comment_934506
Poised and dance with me are solid but they take a perk slot of something else you could be using imo. They are decent. As for looping it depends how good you are. But I say they make a solid perk for marks but it may cause those perks I named to become irrelevant and I don’t think game devs want that. They want balance or what they think is balanced lol.
Poised and Dance with me are solid? You have to be kidding. That's why everyone runs them /s
Poised is so situational I wouldn't run it if it was taking half a perk slot.
Dance with me is useless because if you vault a pallet the killer has LOS and can see where you are going. If you vault a window, most of the times you can still see which direction survivor is heading through the window . Survivor doesn't leave tracks for 12m (4m*3s). When scratchmarks start appearing, he leaves them behind him too, at the end you have ~9m without scratchmarks, once per chase, maybe in the area without any obstacles, maybe when the killer is 4m behind you. That's a waste of a perk slot.
What I propose is completely different and doesn't make anything useless. Although BBQ makes tracking perks like Predator and Bloodhound useless, but who cares if the game becomes better.
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Here's the thing, Predator is a killer perk, so it's Killers who should "care". You don't see anyone using it, because you can easily follow a survivor without it. And once you have found scratchmarks it's almost impossible to lose a survivor.
Only an idiot would prefer to get downed during a chase, yet everyone keeps looping until he gets downed, because those "plenty of tools" don't work, unless you are just lucky against a bad killer, so no one even tries to rely on them. No one is using Dance with me, Distortion or Poised, even stealth players hardly do so, because they suck.