Troman
Troman
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- Troman
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Camping is a general problem, it makes games unfun for both sides.
Camping comes from the design of the hooking system: you need to hook a survivor a second time to start the struggle phase and a third time to kill him. Remove the second hook stage and let survivors die on the hook as soon as their time on the hook runs out. Killer can hook a survivor as many times as needed, survivors can be unhooked as many times as needed. The time on the hook before a survivor dies will have to be tweaked.
This will remove camping entirely, but will still allow the killers to camp a survivor when exit gates are open or to secure the last possible kill, which are the only situation when camping can be called a legit strategy.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2392144#Comment_2392144
I don't know why you feel that's silly or untrue. It's an annoying legit thing. To the point I barely play some favorite characters now. Because that's all it is.
See killer and run. Keep running and don't loop. Drop pallet and hold W some more
Because it's not a problem, this strategy is much much weaker than looping, if a survivor is somewhat decent with looping, it wastes pallets, there are enough ranged killers. I won most games as killer in red ranks with old Wraith. If you can't, you are doing something wrong. Period.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2392144#Comment_2392144
Like killers also dont use W and bloodlust.
The W argument has always been so dumb imo.
Back in the days when killers were complaining about looping we were joking that someday killers will complain about survivors just running in straight lines. It was a joke back then and no one took it seriously and here we go, now it's reality. Killers these days, sigh
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"W meta" LMAO, someone tell those "W meta complainers" how silly they look
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Why should you get a hit there? It's the proper physics, you got stunned, why should a hit go through a dropped pallet at the same time? It was broken before and now it's fixed.
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Where is the option for neither of those?
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No Legion in the list??
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Remove Legion, Trickster.
Darker maps, more fog, bring back the moon bouquet offering, more ambient sounds, creepier terror radius/chase music.
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@Orion said:
Neither.
You can't nerf SWF without nerfing solo survivor because the advantages inherent to SWF (queuing up with players you're familiar with and whose playstyle you know), as well as the advantages you can only get with SWF (voice chat with teammates) are not actually present in the game by default.
You also can't reward killers for losing to SWF. Putting aside the fact that rewarding someone for losing is completely backwards to begin with, paying someone after you punch them in the face as "compensation" isn't going to make it hurt or suck less.
What the devs need to do is to try to bridge the gap between solo queue and SWF while buffing killers accordingly. I want to emphasize that word, "while". "While" means "at the same time as", not "after". So no buffing solo survivors, then leaving killers in the dust for two months. This needs to happen simultaneously.
This. Period.
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@DelsKibara said:
Buff Solo Queue, and then Buff Killers appropriately.
You will never ever beat an Optimal SWF as a Killer if they wnat to win, but that is how the game is meant to be played anyways. The four beating the one if they work together optimally. Of course the Killer should still have a chance at winning, but right now you the one thing that desperately needs to happen is Solo Queue being buffed and Killers being buffed as a result.
And this also needs to happen during the SAME update as to not cause any cause for concern like with Keys and Moris.
If you buff Solo Queue that means Solo Survivor won't be such a pain to play. And because Survivors overall will be stronger, every killer would need to be buffed as a result which allows for less jank and more control for the Killer if they are willing to put the work into it.
You get nowhere by nerfing SWF. Because nerfing things are always going to cause an uproar. But buffing both Solo Queue and Killers at the same time would force SWF to be on the same playing field for the Killers.
Yeah, that's the only logical way to deal with broken balance right now: buff soloQ and Killers to the level of SWF. I don't know why it's taking DEVs so long to do it and fix their game.
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@Bumbus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2368387#Comment_2368387
Perk: Despair's Attorney
If someone DC's from the match, you get that person's bloodpoints. DC penalties in this match are doubled (stacks). If DC penalty is disabled, enables it.
Don't post anything like that anymore please, DEVs might read it.
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Show who is being chased in the HUD, who hears the heartbeat, who is working on a gen, who is opening the exit gate, who is sprinting, who is healing another survivor. That will be enough to buff solo.
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I like original chase music and Nemesis'
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Killers can 99 too, like Myers, so what?
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@TheGhostofZgor said:
In my experience, survivors are, on average, more toxic or trolling than killers. Of course there are lots of bad/dickish killers and some great, fun survivor players but, wow, do some of them have a bug up the rear.
I realize this helps no one and only adds to pointless discourse but after a bad round, I had to rant.
Killers are much more toxic, there's just more survivors in the game.
Look at the forum, count the complaints threads, 70% of them are killer-main complains, although the killerate is 70%, Killers were making several strikes, refusing to play DBD for days, Killers troll every pro-survivor post here with their childish "Bait", they troll Sluzzy, because they don't like what she writes. Killers are the real trolls in DBD.
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Killer is easy mode at the moment and killers win most games. But yes, it is a bit stressful, mostly when you face a 4-man SWF squad, DEVs just have to deal with SWF and it'll be less stressful.
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Why? All M1 killers have killrate above 50%. So, no. It's SWF that must be nerfed.
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Whatever. Who cares about the whiny crap you wrote.
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"W meta" lmao. Killers back from infinities days are laughing hard about this.
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@KSzerker said:
Can't wait to have people spamming useless nonsense like every other game that has pre-written comm systems. What will the "Need a dispenser here!" of DBD be?
I hope it's not gonna happen. People spamming text messages or shouting in the voice chat would ruin the whole experience and atmosphere of solo games for me.
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Add more information to the HUD, we don't need to re-invent the wheel.
Show who is being chased, not just the obsession. Who show hears the heart beat: add a beating heart icon next to the survivor avatar. Show who is doing gens in the HUD, who is opening the gates, who is sprinting, cleansing totems, healing other survivors. You can gather a lot of other information from these changes and there's no need to add new controversial mechanics like chat wheel, proximity chat, it will blend nicely with the existing HUD and provide with a lot of information. And it will make Kindred as basekit obsolete, you can get all the required information from the HUD.
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@femotek820 said:
Last stats show a killer rate of 65-70%. Remove swf from this statistics and listen to killers in this forum, because they say they always escape when they play as surv. So solo escape rate should be 5-10%
Haha. Every time I see someone saying that he has escape rate of 110% in solo, I look at his posting history and it's full of "entitled survivors", "toxic survivors" etc. Killer main detected.
But the posted stats are from 2017-2021 and can be safely ignored.
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@SocialRespect007 said:
depend on player skill level, when i go solo its 50-50 coin flip which is bad, doesnt mean 50% win, it means 50% that i survivor and the others die. depend on my team mates, ofc i have high chance to survive because of my skill, but when i play killer i have 99% winrate because of the killers are play are meta,
but without meta killers i can still have around 95% winrate because i dont play toxic, if i go full toxic i get 98% even on weak killers. game right now is killer sided, until u get reach tournament level squads.
That's what I feel too. There are maybe 3% survivors that can destroy any killer, but when I play killer, I usually destroy 80% of survivors, very often with no gens done. When I play solo, my escape rate and escape rate of my teammates is around 30%
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When I feel that I'm destroying survivors with almost no gens done, I just leave the hooks on purpose, go to the other side of the map to hunt survivors, don't tunnel, always go for the uninjured survivor first.
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It's 2017-2021. Back in 2017 survivors escape rates were very high and infinities still existed, no slow/mid-vaults, no window blockers, fast self-care, you could use several exhaustion perks independently of each other. Things have changed radically in the last few years, so these stats don't tell us anything about the current state of the game.
All we know is that even if we combine high escape rates from 2017-2018 with current data, the killrate is still above 50%, so right now it is much higher.
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Personally I'm tired of stealth, ranged and high mobility killers, we have enough of those already. They have to come up with a new concept. Yeah, it's possible, DEVs just have to use more imagination.
As a possibility, reverse the gen rush concept, make killer get stronger with each gen done, until some condition is met, that will shake up the gameplay. You do gens ASAP and then you find out it's THAT killer.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2350650#Comment_2350650
How would they fix it though?
Fix tunneling, camping with game mechanics. Make SWF less powerful and buff solo. It won't fix all issues, but there will be a much healthier atmosphere in the community.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
Or imagine if you played with those same people without comms. My guess is you would have done ok too.
Solo Q doesn’t suck because of the lack of communication it is their lack of skill, their lack of making conscious decisions like when to get someone off the hook or heal with self care in the corner of the map etc. Those are things that no amount of communication is going to fix. I have brought Kindred so many times only to watch my teammates crouch the moment they heard a heartbeat and step into a locker to hide. They do not understand the concept of being proactive during a match.
Also, I notice you mention that you get tunneled and camped, just because you experience that in SoloQ doesn’t mean you aren’t going to in SWF, and that also isn’t your teammates’ fault. It’s a killer choosing to do so.
You were just told by the OP that he performed much better playing SWF and I experience that too, when plating SWF. Did his skill magically improve when he started playing SWF? Solo sucks not because solo survivors suck, many killers suck just as much, it's because in SWF you are working as a team, it's called synergy. It's not about the skill, it's about the balance and SWF+comms surely shifts that balance by a lot.
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I only care about escaping in Solo. I don't care about BP or piping, I have all the perks I need and I don't care about my current rank. If I had nice chases, tense game, the killer didn't tunnel and I escaped, that's a true victory for me.
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@HaunterofShadows said:
red forest map. and I want this to be the map.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GHDS2JLJ0M45/image.png
Yeah when I say forest I'm not talking about the tiny little things we have right now I'm talking everything is natural, untouched by man except for the shack a couple t-walls the generators and the pallets everything else is natural. the vaults are in natural objects such as fallen logs or extremely thick brush. pallets are placed between natural objects like pairs of trees or a tree and a bush. the breakable walls (if any) are apart of thick clumps of plant-life.
It would be cool. To sum it up, we need more atmospheric maps.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2332960#Comment_2332960
Did you see my post about the math?
No, sorry, I'm a pro survivor and I'm busy holding W and making killers rage-quit right now. No time for math.
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This thread is so hilarious, please don't let it die.
Did you know that survivors hold W with their middle finger? Some even with their palm reversed. We need to talk about it in a YT video.
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@Kebek said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2331375#Comment_2331375
The thing is, do you ever see any even competent SWF teams actually play 100% for the win ? No, that would mean they'de be only doing gens and never engage in chases which is the main fun thing about DBD. Basically all survivors want to get chased each game as just holding M1 is boring.
You can clearly see that top tier competitive SWF teams can do gens vs the best killer players, playing nurse, spirit whatever in around 5 minutes without much that killer can do to stop them. That's when they play to win, which nobody does as it's just not fun. That's the asymetrical nature of DBD, killer's main objective is interacting with living players and killing them, survivor's main objective is to hold M1 on inanimate objects for 400s straight.
The nature and gameplay of DBD is completely different for both sides so sraith killerate is extremely misleading in terms of game balance. It tells us what's the most result of matches is but it does not tell us why, which is the imporatnt question.
At least we agree that solos need to be brought closer to the SWF levels of coordination and information. But as I said, there are 4 times more players on one team so there is far bigger window for them to do mistakes. Unless you get a match with 4 equally skilled survivros, some killer mistakes won't matter as they're a power role and their mistakes count mainly when all 4 survivors are pressuring them which right now isn't the case in normal matches.
The "why" about killrate is not important. In the best case scenario the average killrate is 50% for all killers, for solo and SWF. Why it happens doesn't matter. 50% and everyone is happy. If SWF would suddenly start playing more sweaty and their escape rate would rise above 50%, then it must be rebalanced again.
The problem is, it is hard to achieve that 50%, as long as SWF is so much different to solo. There are also SWF with or without comms, 2-man SWF, 3-man SWF etc. That's why I was always proposing to bring solo and killers to the level of 4-man SWF (as we know we can't nerf SWF) by giving all survivors similar information that SWF have with help of additional HUD icons for each survivor: show who is being chased, who hears the heartbeat, who is working on a gen, who is opening the exit gates etc. We will never have the SAME escape rate for solo and SWF, but it will be much closer and it will be so much easier to balance this game. Killer's won't be destroyed by SWF and solo survivors won't be destroyed by killers anymore, the game experience will be so much more smoother and pleasant for all sides.
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@Kebek said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2331275#Comment_2331275
If you were to believe the stats alone nurse and blight are 2 weakest killers in the game, both in red ranks and in all ranks while pig and doc are like 2-3 of the strongest. Also you're using on of the oldest stats realeased (when there were just 17 killers), at least use the ones most up to date.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/EINHVP96PWQX/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6BLLCF61AQIE/image.png
The fact is, solo survivors are terrible and uncoordinated, that's why they die so much, as many have said DBD is not taken as competitive game nor does it have proper MMR for competitive players.
Do you honestly expect that 4 random people will outpreform 1 person ? Even if survivors were as strong as back in 2017, kill rates would still be as high as this as survivors just do dumb stuff, don't know how to play or just straight up quit/DC all the time.
The actual balance for whole playerbase ir around 56% x 44%. In red ranks, 68% x 32%, at least that's the last one we had which is not bad for asymetrical game where skill of each individual matters and there's 4 times as many on one team.
The only proper way to fix this is adressing matchmaking issues and rebalancing solo que, giving them more information to coordinate more on the levels of SWF.
If you think about what "average" means, it will make sense. You can't express "deadliness" of a killer with a single number, Nurse is deadly in hands of good nurse players, which is a minority, but the majority does a poor job with her, although killrate is still above 50% in red ranks.
Killrate/escape rate is a different story, if solo survivors survive in 1 game out of 4, something is terribly wrong with the balance, there is no excuse for that, killers do just as much dumb stuff, but even SWF escape rate is lower than 50%, does it tell you something? It's just a matter of balance and matter of huge gap between solo and SWF, which is not caused by skill, but by the balance. Additional information that SWF has is a factor of balance, external one, that can't be directly controlled by DBD.
You can fix any balance issues with proper balancing, no matter if it is an asymmetrical game or not, the problem is - no one cares. And yes, giving solo more information is the only way to fix the balance.
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@Orion said:
Yes, just like every other game that wants to be properly balanced and stay alive.
In some other games yes, but in DBD high level is different for solo, Killer and SWF, it's even different for different Killers, as long as the gaps between solo/SWF/Killer are so big, it's not gonna work well. Solo survivors are already struggling, because DBD is being balanced around SWF now.
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@Kebek said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2330860#Comment_2330860
Can you stop throwing statistics around please, they're misleading and should not be sole reason behind balancing. They say nurse is the weakest killer in DBD with 40% kill rate meaning she needs serious buffs to compete with other killers yet I never saw you to ask for massive nurse buffs.
That's not true. Nurse is only weak in hands of newbs. In red ranks her killrate is 65%. https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/106566/
Stats is the only objective way to measure the balance, because anything else is an entitled opinion of a killer/survivor main based on his own subjective feeling and that's not how you balance a game.
And yes, this game is completely out of balance for solo survivors right now, with about 25% escape rate, it's horrible.
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Boring: most of the killers, but if I had to choose one, it would be Legion
Fun: Nurse
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@ShinobuSK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2328183#Comment_2328183
In any game where 6000 hours killer can play against 300 hour survivors...which btw are all in the same rank.
So yea, ranking and fair matchmaking would be the best solo buff
No ranking buff can ever fix solo. It's simple logic. If the game is balanced and too many bad survivors have achieved high rank, then, logically, there must be somewhere the very good survivors, which would have low ranks instead, otherwise you can't say that the game is balanced and it's ranking that is causing the problem. But if there are good survivors somewhere in the lower ranks, then why do we never notice it, neither when playing killer in lower ranks, nor when playing survivor? There are no ranks where solo survivors dominate killers. Killers dominate over solo survivors in all ranks. Changing ranks for solo survivors won't change anything.
Simple logic beats fake news. 1:0 come and try again.
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@EntitySpawn said:
Solo is fine. Ranks however arent. Alot of red ranks should be green at best.
Yeah suuure. Then SWF is fine. Judging by the killer outcry about survivors holding W .... lmao ... a lot of red ranks killer should be brown at best.
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Secondary objective for survivors used to be sabo. It was not balanced and DEVs nerfed it too hard. Games became faster after sabo nerf. Allow each survivor to sabo 1-2 hooks without Saboteur or tools. Make it slow, give enough BP for that to survivors. It will not harm killers much, there are many hooks. Survivors will go after additional BP.
Tunneling is harder. The core problem about tunneling is the 2-stage hook system. You need to hook a survivor the second time to eliminate him from the game, it causes tunneling. Killers go after it, because 1 survivor less means there are less survivors doing gens. Just eliminate the 2-stage hook system, make survivors die as soon as the "hook-bar" runs out or when all survivors are dead or hooked. Also reduce amount of BP gained by Killer when he re-hooks a survivor within x seconds (maybe 30-60seconds). This way there won't be a need to tunnel a survivor, it doesn't bring you anything as a killer, it will just reduce the amount of BP that you will gain. If you leave the hooked survivor and go for another one, you can get more hooks and more BP. It will also help survivors, because killers won't be able to hook you twice within 1 minute and end the game for you too fast.
Also, it's not necessary for the killer to see where the hooked survivor is (remove gfx). And there is no need for the unhook sound+gfx notification. What purpose does it serve? It only helps killers to tunnel, it must be removed.
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Yes, survivors, at least in solo stopped trying to escape long time ago, everyone just farms. With about 25% escape rate in soloQ anything else doesn't make sense, you will not gain any BP. If you try to do gens and do 3 gens, you will get less BP than someone who farmed 1-2 hooks. Survivors should get more points for repairing gens and soloQ balance must be fixed generally.
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@twistedmonkey said:
These forums never cease to amaze me.
For years looping was frowned upon and dubbed ring around the roses. Now some players are adapting to less looping and more juking by running to another area while the killer still expects the survivor to be there.
I thought this is what the player base wanted?
I don't understand the argument at all, it just seems silly as previously running and dropping pallets is what past killers wanted as it left less resources on the map. Past players used to love when survivors did this instead of looping so what has changed?
Are some players so used to others looping one area that they have lost all tracking skills?
I have to laugh hard too, when I read the W-threads. That's the silliest complain I have ever stumbled upon on DBD forums so far.
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Survivors should wait at the gen for the killer to come instead of repairing it as fast as possible, survivors should run the way killers expect them to run. What else is in killers' rulebook for survivors?
I hope this is a bait.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2313525#Comment_2313525
The difference is, this version of "adapting" is very boing for both sides.
There is no difference. Tunneling and camping is boring for both sides, yet killers defend them, because it's a "valid strategy", so sorry.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2313479#Comment_2313479
Survivors complained about Killers like Deathslinger due to the lack of Counterplay at Loops.
Killers told them that Survivors should not only Loop but adapt.
Survivors adapted and figured out that running in a straight Line buys more time against most of the Killers, including those with a very strong Chase Power.
Killers: :O
LMAO. You are so right about this. Everytime survivors complain about something, killers reply with "Survivors don't want to adapt". Everytime solo survivors say that the game is unbalanced for them, killers say that solo survivors are just bad, yet they complain about SWF, but it's not because killers are bad, it's because SWF is OP. So much hypocrisy.
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It was better, yes. It is losing atmosphere for me. As a survivor, I feel there's way too many aura reading perks and abilities, stealth is dead, gen animation that was added is annoying to me, too many indoor maps were added lately, no new interesting realms.
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Most of the times "genrush" isn't a problem. Gen repairing time is not linear throughout the game. Gens popping fast at the beginning of the game is logical, there are 4 healthy survivors at the beginning, there are many gens to patrol. As soon as some survivors get injured or sacrificed, gen repairing speed reduces significantly, up to a point when it almost stalls.
And since sabo was nerfed hard there's nothing else left that survivors can do.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2312922#Comment_2312922
Survivors running in a straight line when the killer is still far away is demonstrably mathematically OP, yes. Just do the math yourself, if you don't believe me.
High mobility killers catching up to survivors in a blink of an eye is mathematically OP.
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So, running in straight lines is OP now? What comes next? Survivors being able to move is OP? Let's just spoon-feed the killers.
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Sirvivor sided with 70% killrate? LMAO.
Bad bait, try again.