TragicSolitude
TragicSolitude
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DbD has a lot of annoying instances of the wrong action taking priority. In this case, does it take precedence but if you push yourself against the hooked survivor you can get the save (like with being injured while running Self Care), or does it completely disable the ability to hook save? If it's the latter, it might be on purpose because hook grabs were removed but Springtrap can grab the axe, making for a possibly buggy situation. (I'm just speculating.)
But damn, I really wish BHVR would fix action priorities. Unhooking and Self Care. Unlocking the hatch and Self Care. Escaping through the hatch and recovering in the dying state. It's beyond frustrating when those things get me killed.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/448858/bhvr-bring-back-map-offerings-please
I had two Scratched Mirror Myers bring map offerings for Midwich and we all wound up on Ormond. It was painful to watch.
I think if a Scratched Mirror Myers burns a map offering, it should be guaranteed. Scratched Mirror does not deserve the utter destruction that comes with this map offering change.
Edit: Geez, guys, does no one know how to have fun responding to something like this anymore? Test the waters, see if it's serious, give a slightly even more unlikely option as a response. Where's the "Yeah, this is the death of Scratched Mirror. If BHVR doesn't want to throw a funeral for him, then the add-on should automatically take Myers to indoor maps. But only the really good indoor maps." so I or someone faster on the keyboard could respond "All stealth killers are suffering. Either only take stealth killers to good indoor maps or give them all projectile weapons." and so and so forth with each response becoming more and more unlikely until we get someone saying "And after a survivor dies to Ghost Face's shrapnel grenade, GF should automatically pop up behind the player, say 'boo!', and then draw a smiley face on their screen with a permanent marker." Or you coulda just taken this as an obituary and been like, "Yes, it's a sad day for Myers." (One response like that. One.) Yes, I know, my bad for being too subtle. Stupid Poe's Law; I could've started with that last bit about grenades and probably still been taken literally. And don't you dare try to do this conversation now when I've already provided the script; if nothing else that would be extremely lazy.
Seriously, though. BHVR is not good at balancing maps. Their best idea for balancing Eyrie of Crows for killers was to make a nearly empty sister map. (At least it worked in that the number of solo queue teammates burning the Crow's Eye offering dropped severely after that.) I'm sad that there are unique killer builds that get really screwed over by the map RNG. BHVR needs to do something about balancing maps; no, giving certain killers special treatment ain't it. It sucks that some maps are terrible for stealth killers while others are terrible for projectile killers. It sucks that some maps are miserable for survivors. I don't think anyone is happy about the overall state of map balance.
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I cheesed this achievement by hanging out at edge-of-the-map doors or traveling through a couple low-visibility doors over and over again. It took a lot of matches, but it's done.
Maybe survivors will use the doors more when the audio is fixed on all platforms.
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@ralecgos said:
Hi I just played a game on survivor with a streamer and her 2 friends. I do not know these people, I was the 4th random player.
Basically they all left me to die on the hook and only unhooked me in the late second stage. So, I was hanging up there for a while. 1 of them was doing a gen, and the other 2 were messing with the killer running around.
They randomly turned on me and kept telling the killer to kill me (the killer was watching her stream too). Then after he did kill me, the killer let them all do gens and leave for free. They all reported me and made me out to sound like a bad guy.
Do people actually get reported and banned for this kind of false reporting? It seemed like they actively were trying to make an enemy out of the 4th player and probably do it a lot. I'm just really frustrated by the whole thing. I wish there was a way to see if you're in a group with a duo or trio. Felt really unfair.
From what you said here, it sounds like they were working with the killer. Working with the killer is against the rules. Players love to claim "I'm reporting you" in chat. Sometimes it seems as common as players saying "gg."
I hope that doesn't happen to you again, because it is one of the most unfun things in the game when teammates work against you. If it does happen, there are steps you can take to report them:
That link takes you to a list of reportable offenses and explains what's required for the report.
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@Falcao said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947964#Comment_3947964
you can't even look at ps players profiles lol. i assure you, no one specially remembers nicknames, unless you are a celebrity. but celebrities hide their nicknames
you can't even look at ps players profiles lol
What? What's funny? Are you talking about something else? I'm talking about normal PlayStation profiles. I just now loaded into a survivor lobby solo on my PS4 and clicked on a teammate's name and was able to look at their PlayStation profile. It shows their name, avatar, recent games played, trophies, friends list.
i assure you, no one specially remembers nicknames, unless you are a celebrity
Right. I started to remember players' names after teammates singled me out and griefed me enough times in matches. I can't be singled out anymore, but if I have a teammate who trolls me and/or the other survivors, their name becomes synonymous with "dodge this lobby." Xbox players also can't change their names, and some have complained on these forums of being targeted by other players; unfortunately, Xbox doesn't have access to anonymous mode.
It's great that it hasn't happened to you. But just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't invalidate other people's experiences.
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It's an elimination game. Tunneling is the most intuitive way for killers to complete their objective of killing survivors. Most players who start out playing this way will continue playing this way. There is no in-game tutorial that teaches them otherwise, nothing that teaches them about pressuring gens or spreading hooks. And the game doesn't reward killers for playing nicely, either. Since tunneling is often more efficient, you could even say the game punishes them when they don't tunnel.
I think no matter what BHVR does, though, as long as this is an elimination game, killers will tunnel. That tunneling is the most intuitive way to play (and often the most efficient) and that it's not fun for survivors is a problem with the game design. If BHVR adds more anti-tunnel mechanics, they better at least finally update the in-game tutorial so new players have some idea of what the game wants of them.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3948085#Comment_3948085
One of the reasons I switched from exclusively killer to survivor as well was because I started taking it too seriously. Killer is a much more stressful experience. As surv I pretty much expect to die, and that helpd me be silly. I really think people should absolutely do both to see the different mindsets.
I bring meme builds too, and I often play Scene Partner. As a killer, I took it as a personal attack, that they were mocking me. As a survivor I've realized that it's just funny, even if it regularly gets me killed.
Taking a mori personally is wild. I've been slugged and saved for last with full intent but I can't say I care.
I've had matches like that too, where I've been targeted, but I just remind myself that it's random and these people don't even know me. I only ever really feel some kind of way if I'm a survivor and other survivors target me or align with the killer against me. Thats pretty rare though.
I've always tried to play both roles. Though, over time, I've played killer less and less.
As surv I pretty much expect to die, and that helpd me be silly.
Same, I expect to die. DbD is a lot more fun if I'm being silly and lighthearted or making up my own goals that have nothing to do with escape.
Taking a mori personally is wild.
Like I said, from talking to those players, it seems they identify too strongly with the survivor they play as. I've seen people say Taurie was a bad addition to the game because she's a bad person they "wouldn't want to have coffee with." That's something that's happening lately in all kinds of media, viewers demanding characters they identify with in every way, and if the character is less than perfect or if something negative happens to the character (it's fiction, bad things need to happen or else the story is boring) they take it personally and get extremely upset at the creators. As for me, I think very flawed characters are more interesting, and I don't need to identify with a character to like them or to feel engaged in their story. The characters I play as in video games are not me or an extension of me: they're pixels.
I only ever really feel some kind of way if I'm a survivor and other survivors target me or align with the killer against me.
Yeah, that's the worst. Usually, the actions of my opponents don't really bother me; the actions of my teammates, however, are another matter.
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@UndeddJester said:
Also as an additional shout out, does anyone else really like the ability to wiggle on hook, even though it does nothing?
It's completely pointless... but for some reason I like just periodically trying to fake an escape attempt... gives me something to amuse myself with while I'm waiting to be saved.
Stupid little feature, but surprisingly appreciated.
It's nice to be able to signal with it, but I wish it didn't stop rescuers from unhooking the person. I've seen it used to grief teammates a bit.
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I normally don't use any of those things, anyway. Only perk I really care about is Lightborn, which does have aura reading, but the mode can take that away as long as I get to keep the anti-blindness. If I can't have Lightborn at all, then I wouldn't play as killer. As survivor, it would make no difference to me except that I wouldn't be going against those things.
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It's all going to depend on the player's mindset.
If a killer is having fun matches, they'll take the actions of the survivors in a more positive manner.
If a killer is having a bad match, especially a string of bad matches, survivors celebrating are more likely to seem like they're rubbing salt in the wound. Survivors celebrating a stomp can look like bad winners. The killer player doesn't know that the survivors celebrating may have died 15 matches in a row, same as the survivors don't know the killer is new and hasn't gotten more than a single kill 15 matches in a row.
Some players never take anything personally. Others have more trouble separating games from reality. I know some survivors take being mori'd personally, often because they identify too much with the character they play as.
Whether or not I goof off with survivors depends on the match. Whether or not I goof off with a killer depends on how the killer has acted during the match. If the killer has had a bad match, I'm likely to just leave unless the killer comes to the exit gate and nods, then I'll show some good-natured camaraderie by saying hi, playing the lute, that kind of thing.
As survivor, the only times I've taken a kill personally were when I was specifically targeted and no one else (I brought a meme build with pebble and lute and stuff, and the Ghostface hit me at the beginning of the match to make me the obsession, then he goofed off with other survivors while making sure to never M1 any of them… he relentlessly chased me down at the end, none of my teammates tried to help me, and Ghostface Rancor'd me while letting the other 3 escape. That felt really crappy. Hard not to take it personally in that case.)
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
Ive made several posts about this, but I think you forgot some achievements.
Left For Dead ~ As the last Survivor alive, compete the final Generator and escape.
- Entirely a luck dependent achievement that has received direct and indirect changes that have made it insanely difficult to try and get normally. This achievement took me 500 hours to get, grinding across multiple months.
Outbreak Breakout ~ Open the Exit Gates and escape from Racoon City Police Station 20 times.
- With the massive nerf of Map Offerings this has become significantly harder to get but they did not change the achievement to compensate. You cannot consistently get RCPD.
These are awful. Im surprised nobody talks about them.
The original post does mention Outbreak Breakout, just not a screencap.
I've seen both it and Left For Dead talked about a bunch of times, but discussion tapered off because they're older achievements and I don't think there's ever been a dev response to the complaints. Feels kind of like shouting into a void.
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But if they killswitch the skin then I can't ask him to mori me at the end of a match. He does the "shhh" thing.
Anyway, DbD is terrible when it comes to audio. Survivor injured noises still haven't been normalized and it absolutely does give the quiet survivors an advantage. Sound occlusion works in ways that make no sense: I can't hear the hatch a foot away, I can't hear a nearly completed gen down the stairs, but I can hear Ghostface's clothing rustling on the other side of a thick steel wall. And I still have matches against Huntress where sometimes I hear her terror radius long before I hear her lullaby, or maybe never hear her lullaby at all.
I've given up on expecting audio to function consistently much less properly in this game.
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The absolutely most awful achievement continues to be the Skilled Huntress trophy on PlayStation. Which says it requires only 20 downs but actually still requires 100.
100 downs with Huntress's hatchets from 24+ meters away. On a controller. With frame drops and meh-at-best fps. I think I'm at least somewhere in the 70s, now, but I can't check because I'm on PS4.
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@nekefirwonderful said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947723#Comment_3947723
Wow, no wonder why there are so many cheaters, someone who actually respects their time will not spend 40 minutes or even more to report someone's SINGULAR account. I hope they will make it easier or at least faster. Because 1 cheater has access to almost unlimited amount of accounts which they will probably spend less time to buy/create new account than reporting someone with all of these steps.
You're not wrong. A lot of people complain about how much time it takes to report someone vs how much time it takes that cheater to move to a new account. It's a huge pain. I rarely take the time to do it.
@Falcao said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947734#Comment_3947734
I think you need to see a specialist because you're afraid of not being anonymous. This mod was created not because people were afraid of other people, but because cheaters were streamsniping streamers. But a cheater is like an admin in a game, he bypasses this mod and streamsnipes anyway.
Does it matter why it was created? People are going to use anonymous mode for a multitude of reasons.
I use anonymous mode because I play on PlayStation and I don't want to be harassed outside of the game. This is one of the most ridiculously salty playerbases. I got nasty messages for killing people, for not killing people, for memeing as totem protector Bubba, for being a new survivor who was still learning the game, for not rescuing teammates against NOED. Plus, on PlayStation you can't change your name, so if someone decided they didn't like you it was easy for them to recognize you and make you miserable any time they had a match with you thereafter.
@Falcao said:
I suggested that if a person wants to be anonymous, then the chat and the ability to view other people's profiles are automatically disabled. This would be fair, knowing that cheaters and trolls always hide under the anonymous mod
I'm fine with that. Those of us on console can't chat, anyway. The number of times I've clicked on someone's profile in the past five years could probably be counted on one hand.
cheaters and trolls always hide under the anonymous mod
Nah, I get griefed by plenty of players who aren't anonymous. I've also had matches with cheaters whose names are advertisements for their cheats.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947732#Comment_3947732
Its incorrect that both are required for action to be taken. What each does is that when a cheater is there is a chance a user will flag them for cheating, optimally 4 per game. Over time those will stack up and that will give them attention from BHVR.
When a BHVR Employee then sits down to squash cheaters, they will see flagged players and can investigate each log the game server saved that cheater was in. Patterns are kind of easy to recognize this way.
Developers would like for us to submit as much evidence as we can as it helps them, but both are not required or needed.
Strongly recommended =/= Required. Stuff will happen, but more evidence is better, it always is.I just go by what the mods have said on the forums. They've always, as far as I can remember, said they need both. A player can still submit a report without both, but in one of the threads I linked to above Mandy said that it's unlikely action will be taken in those cases.
I linked to two threads in the post you replied to, and here are two more posts besides those to back up what I've said here. In the second quote, Mandy says video evidence is required to supplement an in-game cheater report.
@Mandy said:
No report is actioned without solid evidence - so video evidence (screenshots are not evidence and are not used) is pretty much a necessity. If players are talking about chat harassment, we do have all the chat logs checked.
Nobody is banned without good reason - and even when you receive the "report is actioned" response, that means the report has been reviewed, not that someone has been banned.
@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3203672#Comment_3203672
We do state about our reporting procedures in our game rules https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/kb/articles/139-game-rules for players that you suspect of cheating, video evidence would be required to supplement the in-game report.
Edit: Okay, I can't help it, I like to be thorough. That "Game Rules" link is broken, but I found the current url: Game Rules. It specifies when a support ticket with video evidence is required and when it's not. For reports of cheating, it's required. For things like griefing, exploiting game bugs, and unsportsmanlike conduct, it says support tickets with video evidence are not required. However, there are posts from Mandy stating that video evidence is required to ban people for griefing (here, here, and here), so… from my own experience, when I've reported griefing, it's difficult to get support to take action with video evidence; it's hard to imagine anything ever happening without it. But again, this thread is about cheating, and everything clearly states that cheating reports require video evidence,
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947723#Comment_3947723
I don't think this is true at least for me, I've reported a few people in game recently (usually blatant cheaters) and gave a detailed reason as to why, and I've had follow ups stating they'd been banned.
It's either someone else did it for me and i contributed or they just take time to get around to reports.I remember seeing mods say you are required to do both, because they need the match flagged and they need video evidence. BHVR doesn't record matches on their end, so they don't take action on most things without video evidence (verbal abuse in chat is an obvious exception).
If you flag a player for bad behavior, then you do get notified if and when action is taken against them. It doesn't matter who or what caused the action to be taken. It doesn't even need to be connected to the same match in which you flagged them.
I'm not making any comments on your own experience, because I obviously couldn't know what happened. I'm just telling you what I know from what mods have said and my own personal experience.
Edit: Saying "I remember seeing" bugged me, because that really doesn't clear up anything, so I did a quick search and here are threads where a mod does indeed specify that both video evidence and an in-game report are needed:
@Kira4Evr said:
Okay, I faced a Trapper. who was clearly hacking. I did record it and I have the users steam URL. But I don't know how I send it in a report. Can you guys help me out?
EDIT: I found out how to do it!
@Begraero said:
I got into a game with a cheater, and was recording the whole time, how do I submit a formal complaint with evidence of said cheater hacking mid-game. He also used a few slurs in end game chat and also have proof of that. I've been seeing more and more cheater which is why I recorded in the first place. Some help would be really nice. Thanks.
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@nekefirwonderful said:
Well, imagine I have a video of someone's cheating, but I can't report him fully through bhvr support, because I don't know at least the nickname of someone I am reporting. I actually have evidence of "Claudette Morel" cheating, but so far I can't report this guy through support. I can report through game, but sometimes it's not really enough to take more subtle cheaters out. We had no idea that Claudette was cheating until very last moment, where I was spectating her. It's not going to hurt streamers or etc. because it still will do the job of hiding your nickname throughout whole match.
You are required to report players within the game and by creating a support ticket. If you don't do both steps, then action probably isn't going to be taken on the report.
When you report the player in-game, it flags them. Then, you create a support ticket and submit the video evidence. Because you flagged the match, support will be able to find the match in their system and see who the player actually was. You do not need the player's name.
Edit: Fixed my wording.
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@not_Queef said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947394#Comment_3947394
Possibly they assumed you were camping the hook since you didn't bother to contest the gens in any way. This is literally what killers tell survivors to do to counter camping.
If anyone had checked on her at all, they would've seen I was nowhere near. She never unhooked herself using the AFC mechanic, and she was still alive after they popped the last gen. They should've at least checked on her as she was nearing second state, to see if they could get her off before she went into it. Or check on her after the gens were done, there were three healthy survivors who could've worked to get her out. They didn't check on her. They didn't try.
@IrisLP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947394#Comment_3947394
Exactly, soloQ became the real 1vs4. Except that you are not the killer, and one of that 4 has powers... 🤣
Yup. And as I always say, teammates in solo queue are often more deadly than the killer.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947402#Comment_3947402
Darn, I think I actually was in favor of that change. hahaha
I prefer that change, personally. Before, you got 8 hooks and the Entity was displeased with you because you didn't kill anyone. Even though 8 hooks is better than 1 hook and a kill, at least in most people's opinions. Now, you get 8 hooks and the Entity is like, "But dude, I'm hungry," and you can shrug it off like whatever, I don't feel like spoon feeding you right now.
Seriously, though, hunger feels like a better personification of the Entity's state than displeasure.
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I just played a match as killer. Memeing on the new map. No intention of killing anyone. I hooked one person at four gens left. Then I went off to the other side of the map and put the controller down to do something else, as my meme was over.
I came back, she was still on the hook as they popped the last gen, and then they opened the exit gates as she died. Three people did nothing but sit on gens and then left.
What the actual hell is going on. Thank god BHVR removed 4%ing, otherwise she might've had a chance to get herself off when her teammates literally left her to sit on the hook for over two minutes and die.
I don't get it. I just don't get it. Solo queue really is the most miserable video game experience ever concocted by humans.
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Please give Springtrap a unique mori if he performs it on the stage with the other animatronics.
Or at least fix his mori so the survivor's position and camera angles don't break on the stage.
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Personally, in my own experience, matchmaking is the cause of a lot of the game's problems. Whether that means lobbies of wildly varying skill levels or players with very different expectations (one survivor wants to meme, one survivor wants to play super comp style, one survivor wants to do get their generator quest done, one survivor's friend just got them into the game and everything is exciting and spooky and they want to play hide and seek, and the killer just wants to try out some niche build)… it's a casual game, so yeah, you're going to have players who want very different things from their matches; it'd be nice if the game could somehow group like with like, but that might be impossible. However, the game should damn well be able to group together people of similar skill levels. Plus, skill levels and playstyles are going to have some overlap. New players should go against new players. Casual survivors are probably going to do gens but not last too long in chase, and they'll have the best time against a killer who likes to 8-hook or test out weird builds. Survivors who like to play hide-and-seek and never touch gens would be great put together in one lobby against a killer who's bad at pressuring gens. BHVR wants to try to program a system that can properly determine crow spawn rate depending on an infinite number of possible scenarios, why not look for patterns in emblem scores that would help put together lobbies with less friction.
The "go next" epidemic was probably at least partially caused by a lot of misery across a lot of matches that built up until it reached a critical point where something small could feel monumental. Every stubbed toe became an omen of nuclear disaster. The fact that this happened to such a large number of players says there are big problems that aren't being addressed. A game that survives in large part because of an addictive grind and the sunk cost fallacy may retain long-term players who feel compelled to try to play, but their frustrations just build and build, the bright spots are few and far between, and so they "go next" because the game doesn't really reward them for trying their best so why should they try? If they felt like their efforts were rewarded, then they'd expend the effort. To add to this, the dopamine rushes in DbD don't come from working on gens, they come from moments when the stars align or breath-holding stealth pays off or some crazy Hail Mary actually works for once.
Yeah, I know, there's probably a lot of problems with what I just said, especially in terms of implementing anything from my impossible wishlist in that first paragraph. It's late. I think the big takeaway from my post is I hate DbD's matchmaking. I'm not sure my second paragraph even makes sense.
Edit: Here's an old post I wrote that's kinda in a similar vein to my disjointed second paragraph, though it's more about how DbD's focus on escapes above all else has hurt the survivor experience: "The DC epidemic…" Also, "the game doesn't do a good job of rewarding participation." I could swear I wrote a post that was basically a coherent version of that paragraph, but maybe I'm imagining it.
Edit 2: Solo queue survivors don't believe their teammates will help them when things get tough. Another reason an issue such as "going next" is widespread is that frustration is like a virus, and in a single match one player can spread it to four others.
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@IamFran said:
Imagine the amount of new players that arrived with the release of FNAF chapter and left the game because they were punished for playing bad.
BHVR released the most successful chapter so far along with the "Go-Next prevention" debacle, a brilliant move, haha.
It wouldn't be DbD otherwise. Stranger Things released with broken matchmaking. Resident Evil released with a map that crashed the game and a buggy killer. Somehow, DbD manages to sabotage new players' first impressions during some of the game's best chances to increase its player base.
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@tjt85 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946610#Comment_3946610
Jeeze, I hope not. It'll be good bye to spontaneous snow ball fights come the winter event :(
Nooo, I need my snowball fights, those are one of the most fun thing in DbD. Snowballs, pebbles, lutes, I love those.
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@apathyinc said:
I’ve always been a stealth player. The quiet tension of sneaking past the killer, heart pounding as I crouched behind a rock, hoping they wouldn’t turn around. The mind games, the subtle jukes, the deep satisfaction of surviving not because I was fast, but because I was clever. That’s what made Dead by Daylight feel special—it wasn’t just an action game. It was psychological. Tactical. Poetic in its silence.
But stealth has slowly been strangled out of the game.
Recent patches seem to actively punish cautious play. Stealth perks like Urban Evasion, Iron Will, or Distortion have become borderline useless in a meta where killers are encouraged to rush generators and chase survivors aggressively. Map visibility has increased, audio cues are louder and more revealing, and even the pacing feels calibrated for nonstop action. There’s no room left for the slower, calculating approach. It’s go-go-go or get left behind.
The saddest part? The loss of stealth stripped the game of its soul—for players like me, at least. It used to be a horror experience. Now it’s just a loud, frantic race. I find myself missing the moments of stillness, the quiet escapes, the anxiety of being watched. That was real terror. Real excitement. That was Dead by Daylight.
I don’t fault the devs for wanting to evolve the game. But in doing so, they’ve alienated a core playstyle. Without meaningful stealth, there’s simply no draw for me anymore. Also, crows.
they’ve alienated a core playstyle.
This is worse than that, really. They're punishing not only stealth, but also new players, unskilled players, and generally inefficient players. This has always been described as a casual party game, as far as I'm aware, and yet this kind of system is the opposite of that. This is damn near a "gen rush or else" system. The devs also seem to have forgotten that the game is full of slowdown perks, too, because this punishes anyone hampered by slowdown.
It's absolutely batty. I hate getting teammates who do nothing but stealth around the edges of the map. This doesn't fix that. I'm still seeing teammates do it. I see them tap gens to avoid crows. I also see some just walk around with 3 crows and the killer ignores them because they're not a threat.
Yes, I want to stop getting teammates who do nothing but stealth around. No, I don't want to actually punish people in the match. I don't want to dictate how they play. I want matchmaking to work better, first off. Second, I accept that matches are going to go bad and I'm going to die a lot. That's the game. I don't mind dying. I mind my teammate who stealthed around and let everyone die and got the hatch is rewarded for that behavior. BHVR needs to fix it so a hatch escape isn't 9.5k BP and instead rewards based on relevant emblem points (safe unhooks, being chased while gens are worked on, healing, lightbringer), so a survivor who does nothing towards escaping earns nothing for escaping. Another positive would be finding a way to encourage survivors to work on gens when only two survivors remain, making it so the game really rewards trying to play through a hopeless situation. Right now, it absolutely sucks to be the survivor who works on gens, gets found, and dies while the final survivor hid and gets hatch, because the survivor who hid is rewarded far better.
The crows are just awful. A lot of people don't consider gens to be the most fun part of the game, they like going for flashlight saves or hunting for totems. Those playstyles are also hurt with these crows.
Punishment systems are generally bad. The DC penalties are necessary, I remember what it was like before them, but punishing people for how they play? In a casual game? This is some nonsense.
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@Munky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945862#Comment_3945862
That's strange, cause I have been slugged before, and when that happens I usually alt tab to my other monitor for a bit… I've never gotten crows in this update so far… I just can't imagine why some people have non, and others like yourself have it so bad…
I do always focus on the objective tho… I'm always on gens unless I'm in chase ofc… :) is it possible that you were the first to be chased in the match? And because of that, a counter behind the scenes believes you aren't doing anything, cause you had no chance to touch a gen yet…?
I think you're right that I hadn't touched a gen yet in that match, so maybe that was a (hopefully unintentional) factor.
The crows were really bad in that particular situation. Another bad one: two survivors dead, the killer was patrolling a 3 gen, my friend was dying in second state as fast as they could, and even though I was on a gen when they got hooked and I didn't get off until the killer started coming in my direction, I was getting crows before my friend finished dying.
In most cases, since I am one of those "I'm not required elsewhere so my ass is on a gen" type people, the crows are more of a nuisance. But they're a nuisance that's changing my playstyle. Like ignoring totems, even to my detriment. I love totem hunting to occasionally break up the monotony of gen work, but it's not an option, now.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945839#Comment_3945839
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA sorry :(
It's okay.
I mean, the Entity is absolutely going to torture those who forgot its gift to killers, K37P02_0... buuuut it was always going to torture us all, anyway.
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@Munky said:
I'm trying to figure out what the difference is between me and all of you who have issues…. Since the update I haven't had a single crow, nor did I get a DC penalty at any point… However I am a 2016 veteran, so maybe I am just playing hard enough as intended?
Other than that, all I can think of is that its maybe linked to FPS? I recently started maining Twins and had to turn down fps cap from 120 to 60 to avoid the motherload of bugs. The game is just coded very badly/weirdly like that. So maybe just maybe, its the same with these cases? Higher FPS might clock you faster and harder on all the anti afk/go next measures… Just thinking out loud here… I assume 99% plays at 120 FPS so…
However I do have heavy criticism on how the anti go next is implimented. Even in the most miserable scenarios, you just can't go next and are forced to sit through the entire match, or until death if nobody unhooks you… And I rly do mean scenarios where you as a solo get into a lobby with a Trio squad, and all they do is troll or afk… I want to go next… But I can't.
Higher FPS might clock you faster and harder on all the anti afk/go next measures… Just thinking out loud here… I assume 99% plays at 120 FPS so…
Nah, I play on Switch, which runs at like 15fps on a good day. And I've had problems where I've gotten crows cleansing totems or finding the next gen or waiting out my friend letting themselves die on hook so I have a chance at the hatch. I got crows while nonstop crawling on the ground, and after the killer picked me up and I got off their shoulder the crows never went away during the entire chase. The game punished me for not doing gens in the dying state, and then it punished me for not falling onto a gen when I wiggled off the killer's shoulder. I've pretty much given up trying to deal with Hex: Plaything, which a very large number of killers I've gone against have been running since it's now a general pool perk. It's like BHVR forgot they included slowdown mechanics in the game, because these crows are a problem in a large number of slowdown situations.
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How dare you not remember our lord and savior perk "K37P02_0", represented by a black diamond because no illustration can adequately capture its supreme power. It is the alpha and the omega. K37P02_0 is a near-blinding glimpse of the Entity's infinite existence.
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I have two big problems with this system. First, I had to fail five consecutive skill checks as the second-to-last survivor so the final survivor could have a chance at the hatch. That's a long time in this game. That is the exact kind of thing people did not want happening, but here it is.
Second, this is supposed to be "go next" prevention. Prevention is one thing. BHVR has implemented this wide net of a punishment system that's absolutely going to punish innocent people. Being bad at the game is not a crime. Neither is getting tunneled. People were already complaining because being killed too fast by a cheater gets them punished, and yet BHVR goes ahead with a system that will punish that scenario and more. I don't like punishment systems. The DC penalty has been necessary because I remember what the game was like before it, but punishing people based on some unavoidably fallible criteria of how they played the game? Noooo. No.
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It's supposed to be a casual party game. These aggressive crows are the opposite of that. If survivors don't play according to some narrow set of guidelines, they get crows.
Do I wish my teammates would spend more time on gens? Yes, always. Do I think it's my place to tell someone who enjoys going for flashlight saves or totem hunting to stop having fun and get back on those gens? No. I've had matches where a single flashlight save is the difference between an early lost match and 3+ escapes. I've had matches where the totem hunter saved our asses from NOED. Those players aren't useless. Do they probably cause more losses than wins? I wouldn't know, but isn't part of DbD chasing those really amazing unicorn moments? That dopamine rush when the stars align and you manage to pull off a really cool thing? Are those matches where everyone is always on a gen and no one does anything crazy the ones that get talked about or posted online for all to envy?
These crows are not fun. These crows kill a large part of the charm of DbD.
What I wanted was two things. First, for BHVR to fix matchmaking so people who participate stop getting teamed up with people who don't. Second, fix the escape rewards so that instead of 9.5k BP for an unearned hatch escape, the escape score event is based on the player's emblem scores: a player with three barren participation emblems should be rewarded nothing for doing nothing. Aggressive crows are always going to catch innocent players in the crossfire, there's no way to program them to not screw over survivors. I'm someone who understands that no one big thing is going to be a complete solution, most problems require small steps that add up, but these crows are not a good step.
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I like Myers. I don't play him myself anymore, but changes that hurt him make me sad. I'm personally having a moment of silence for Scratched Mirror Mikey. He didn't deserve this.
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I get his axe throw wrong more than I get it right. It's so frustrating, I'm fighting muscle memory. Inconsistencies with controls drive me nuts.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945633#Comment_3945633
So I'll bite I guess.
I'm not playing survivor. That's my response. Been my response for a while, but that's another topic.
But I can also confidently say that I've given my constructive feedback for about two years now.
I've had numerous conversations over the years in various threads, and with different people on these forums talking about exactly these issues. Most recently:
I mentioned it earlier, or maybe in another thread, I forget, but I had a long back and forth conversation with someone a couple months ago. They were saying, roughly, "survivors should be punished if they haven't completed a gen in a while", and I went into great detail about how that would generate a ton of false positives, trigger on things like "being slugged", "hiding while the killer kicks your gen", "cleansing hexes", and a huge list of other things that are actual gameplay.
So that was my constructive feedback. On the devs own forum, discussing these issues, and specifically saying "hey, if you put a system in place for this it should consider these elements, at minimum". That's the best I can do, especially since I can't directly message a dev because it's against forum rules.
So when they ignore that feedback entirely, and also just put in a system that literally just punishes normal gameplay without any of the safeguards or considerations, then yeah, I've said all of this before and been ignored, so now instead of a proactive "consider this with your future patch", it's "your system has issues because you didn't consider this yourselves or listen".
On top of, "you've made a mistake already and need to backtrack".
At this point, I'm just shouting into a void. So yeah, I feel fully within my right to criticize these decisions, lack of foresight, and heavy handed tactics. Especially because I've been vocal about why exactly this is a bad idea in the past.
But I can also confidently say that I've given my constructive feedback for about two years now.
At this point, I'm just shouting into a void.
Yeah, I know how you feel. About this and so many other things. Posting on these forums has felt like shouting into the void for years.
I've complained about the problem of do-nothing stealthing survivors for a long time. My opinion has always mainly been that what's needed is to rework the reward system for escaping. That 9.5k for a hatch escape is a huge reward and it often goes to players who contributed nothing and that's why they survived while their teammates died. If the amount rewarded to survivors upon escape was based on participation, like say emblem scores, then doing nothing would reward nothing.
This is supposed to be a casual party game. Punishment should be the last resort and it should never be an unnecessarily wide net. And people shouldn't be forced to play according to a strict, narrow set of rules. Not unless this is no longer a casual game. Do I wish that teammate would do gens instead of following me around in chase so they can try for a flashlight save? Hell yes. Do I think it's my place to say they're not allowed to find going for saves to be the fun part of the game? No. And I've seen people who want flashlight saves get birds. And I had a match today where 3 people escaped because a teammate got a flashlight save that kept it a 4v1 instead of letting it become an early 3v1. For god's sake, if people want to do something that's not gens, if people find other elements of the game fun, if they prefer totem hunting or going for saves to be fun, then whatever. It's a game, people should be having fun. These birds are not fun.
BHVR just needs to stop rewarding the do-nothing stealthing survivors with a a crapton of Bloodpoints for escaping. Base the escape score event on their emblem scores. If all three participation emblems are barren, they damn well don't deserve 9.5k BP for escaping. If my 3 teammates run up to the killer to die and so the killer lets me have a pity hatch, then hey, that's nice of the killer, but no, I didn't actually earn anything in that trial. I'm no longer punished with a depip for those matches, that's what matters; the game doesn't need to reward me.
Hmm… I've really gone off here, haven't I. My apologies.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945645#Comment_3945645
I've not heard of any penalties except a regular dc penalty if the killer actually exits the map early. I've had killers go face a corner, be afk the entire match, or even during the twins bugs where they physically can't move or do anything. Never once have I heard of anyone mention dc penalties because of any of these. This would also include killers body blocking survivors in the corner.
There's I guess a chance it does exist, but since I don't do any of these things, I don't have any first hand account of it.
But even so, the "new patch" afk system has literally nothing in it for killer. No requirement to "play the game", wether that would be in chase, damage gens, injure survivors, hooks, anything.
At the bare minimum, this 9.0 afk system has very, very strict prove of what survivors need to do to be considered playing, and says literally nothing for killers.
Same thing with the "go next" penalty. Seems like a killer standing in the corner from the start of the game, or after a bad first chase checks all of the boxes of refusing to play, but there's nothing to force them to play it out. And no penalty unless they choose to "exit game" (or otherwise disconnect). Not that this is common, per se, but if we're taking about "you signed up for this match, play it out" then this is exactly that scenario, but with no penalty for one team.
It's a flaw in how that person was arguing. These aren't necessarily identical scenarios, but the reality is that you can't simply force someone to play out a game they don't want to. And that reality is lacking from the "contract" discussion.
I've had killers go face a corner, be afk the entire match, or even during the twins bugs where they physically can't move or do anything. Never once have I heard of anyone mention dc penalties because of any of these.
There's a very low threshold for how much the killer needs to participate in the match to avoid a penalty. I've had real life issues pop up that had me walk away during the loading screen and I didn't get back until after the match ended, and because I did literally nothing I received a penalty as if I disconnected. That even happened once when I returned so late in the match that, while I did something, it was so little the game was like, "nuh-uh" and gave me a penalty, I didn't get to keep the small amount of BP I made at the very end.
I've also gotten completely AFK killers who didn't disconnect but on the end screen it displayed the icon for disconnecting along with 0 points, meaning they got a dc penalty for AFKing.
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@Scarlett1111 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945696#Comment_3945696
much less likely to renew the deal with BHVR when it expires if the chapter had a terrible launch.
Why are they any less likely to renew the license with all of the game breaking bugs surrounding him? Anyone with internet access and fingers to go to google can see how badly its being handled. If I was an IP holder I wouldn't want anything I own to be within a 5 mile radius of Behavior after how they have handled this, launching with a game breaking audio bug on the KNOWN ISSUES LIST? On top of the insane bugs giving the new character an extremely bad rep because of how miserable and frustrating he is to play against? At least disabling him shows they actually care about the integrity of the game and want it to remain fun to everyone, the only reason he hasn't is entirely greed. They see the money they are making and don't care about anything else. There is a free to play weekend this weekend, I doubt anyone stays longer than 5 minutes when they realize they wont be able to play any of the Licensed content without paying, which lets be real BHVR doesn't need any more bad rep right now.
the money they are making
That is what most companies care about.
Don't get me wrong, the people, the game developers and others working closely on DbD, I'm sure they care and are heartbroken when updates have huge problems. But money is always an issue, a big one, and every decision has to be weighed against that. All it takes is one content drop that performs below expectations for people to lose their jobs.
There is a free to play weekend this weekend
Those are not uncommon. Not only are they always miserable to play during, but very few people seem to ever be convinced to keep playing after the free weekend ends. Again, terrible new player retention.
Why are they any less likely to renew the license with all of the game breaking bugs surrounding him?
As was previously mentioned in this thread (not by me), the Resident Evil chapter drop was horribly bug-ridden. The map was killswitched because it crashed the game. I'm pretty sure there were problems with Nemesis, the killer for that chapter, but he was not killswitched. There were all kinds of problems with the chapter's release, but not only has Resident Evil stuck around, it also got a second chapter.
The new killer does not crash the game. His bugs are not "game breaking," they're just annoying for the survivors and give the killer an upper hand he wouldn't normally have. Bugs are a normal part of DbD. Killswitching a brand new killer is not.
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@Scarlett1111 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945684#Comment_3945684
Steam has outliers for everything in their refund policy, so they cannot be proven as consistent on anything. Even if he does get fixed in a week that still won't keep the players around. Its very easy to buy him and then play survivor and go "Wow he's so broken I don't want to play this garbage game again" (which is currently happening), and then refund both him and the game (which is also happening).
Steam has outliers for everything in their refund policy
The game's not just on Steam. I only mentioned Steam before because it seems like the easiest platform on which to get a refund and I was talking about the game/DLC being very easy to get a refund on if the DLC is killswitched immediately after being purchased. Other platforms can be a big pain in the butt when it comes to refunds.
BHVR might also get in legal trouble if they immediately killswitch a killer. Even if they didn't get in legal trouble, the license holder is much, much less likely to renew the deal with BHVR when it expires if the chapter had a terrible launch.
Even if he does get fixed in a week that still won't keep the players around.
I said the opposite of that. I said if he's fixed in a week those players may stop playing but they are less likely, on whichever platform they may be on, to get a refund. I don't expect most new players to play beyond a week or two, no matter what happens with the chapter.
Its very easy to buy him and then play survivor and go "Wow he's so broken I don't want to play this garbage game again" (which is currently happening), and then refund both him and the game (which is also happening).
New survivors say that about every killer. Because this game is horrible on new players. Like I said, DbD is terrible at retaining new players. For many, many reasons.
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@Scarlett1111 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945625#Comment_3945625
Most of these people have friends that they want to play the game with as well because either they got them into it, or because of other reasons. Most people don't want to sit in 20 minute queues for games that last a fraction of the time when they are new or only have short amounts of time to play. These new players are learning a killer that is broken currently and not working as intended, do you think they are going to take it happily when the bugs are fixed and he drops back down to "just good" when they actually have to play against people who reveal them with cams because their audio doesn't completely break? Because they can actually react to him coming out of doors because his both visible and makes noise? They are going to think the character sucks and stop playing. There is no keeping these people around with him in his current state. Killswitching Springtrap IS the only correct answer.
You're talking about retention. I'm not. I'm talking about immediate loss of profits.
If Springtrap is killswitched immediately upon release, that's people asking for refunds and not being retained as new players. If Springtrap is fixed next week, people are less likely to be able to ask for refunds because too much time will have passed. They may stop playing him or the game altogether, but that's par for the course with DbD. DbD is terrible at retaining new players, and that goes way beyond anything to do with this chapter. Retention is a completely different topic, one with many facets which I've already talked about extensively on these forums.
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@Scarlett1111 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945600#Comment_3945600
They are, the game has already lost 25% of the players who joined on Tuesday. That's 7x the amount lost in the same for the RE Chapter.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945601#Comment_3945601
New players are already leaving in droves because of the Go Next Prevention punishing them specifically because they are bad and get tunneled more.
New players are already leaving in droves because of the Go Next Prevention punishing them specifically because they are bad and get tunneled more.
That's people trying out the game to play survivor. Killswitching Springtrap would chase away the ones trying out the game to play killer. Some people play both sides equally, but many gravitate towards one side or the other, especially early on.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
New releases don't get killswitched. It would kill the hype for the release stone dead, and I strongly doubt they'd want to kill the hype for the single most requested license the game's ever had.
It would kill the hype for the release stone dead
Not to mention the number of people who would outright demand a refund on the DLC. New players would probably demand a refund on the DLC and game. Sounds like that's pretty easy to do on Steam, at least.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945423#Comment_3945423
Yeah, the Shoulder the Burden thing is a bug, the devs have confirmed. Though it is pretty wild to get a DC penalty even after escaping.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945424#Comment_3945424
Did you get the DC penalty for letting go on hook?
I did not, thankfully. I was really worried whether I would or not. Since the game doesn't tell you anything, doesn't give you any in-game warning but just punishes you after the fact, I usually don't let go on the hook when I'm the second-to-last survivor because I have no idea if I'll get a penalty and I absolutely care more about not getting a penalty over anything else.
This is so busted. I know I'm screwing over my teammates in those cases, but I'm just not risking it. Even a dev telling me on the forum, "It's fine, you can always let go," doesn't really convince me considering the cases where I've seen people get warnings when they didn't let go.
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I had to miss five consecutive skill checks as the second-to-last survivor to give the last survivor a chance at the hatch.
What the actual hell. Why not just take away my skill checks and put a giant flashing neon arrow over that survivor's head and glue them in place, at that point. "Can still let yourself die to give the last survivor a chance at the hatch." Pffft.
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The thing I always wanted most was for survivors not to be rewarded for doing nothing but hiding. I'm already seeing the stealthers tap gens to avoid crows while still mostly UEing around the edge of the map, so this update is about as helpful as anyone expected it to be.
I've always felt that survivors are rewarded way too much for escaping. A survivor who hides all match and does nothing shouldn't get 9.5k BP for escaping through the hatch. The BP received for escaping should be based on emblems (not BP, because for instance soloing on gens earns garbage for BP).
Freaking aggressive AFK crows screwing people over trying to cleanse bones, trying to open exit gates, crawling in the dying state, this is a bad system.
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I think that, whatever BHVR does, it shouldn't include a punishment system. If a punishment is still needed, then the prevention isn't working correctly. As is, I've seen players get warnings despite doing nothing wrong. That's not okay. This feels half-baked: "oh, we stop the survivors from doing these different actions, but also we punish survivors in case those preventative measures don't do enough." Say what? No. Make a system that works on its own, not one that kinda sorta works and throws a punishment net over it all for when stuff slips through.
And I'm sure those survivors who wanted to go next but couldn't and instead body blocked me mid-chase and ruined my matches didn't get any warning afterward, because they didn't die fast enough. Meanwhile, my friend got a warning for getting tunneled.
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@devoutartist said:
like title say can i not use this account to stats track or do i need to create a new one because when i try to log in with the this account it doesn't work
Your BHVR forum account is a separate thing from a BHVR account.
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Yeah. I don't play any killer with poor Deviousness gains. It just doesn't feel good, I feel like I played poorly even if I used their power nonstop and got a 4k. I'm not going to play a killer where I do everything right and don't get rewarded for it.
BHVR's decisions make no sense here, either. Spirit and Legion get Bloodpoints for simply activating their powers. Meanwhile, The Ghoul gets nothing for traveling with his power, despite the fact that it takes aiming and the game loves to say, "Never mind, I know the icon was red a nanosecond ago but nah, you can't grab that." No. Just no.
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I got them while nonstop crawling in the dying state. That was bad enough, but then I got off the killer's shoulder and the three crows never went away during the chase.
I'm just thrilled that this update was released right around the same time Pinhead's perks became general pool, because these crows go great with survivors searching for their Hex: Plaything totems.
And new players still do not understand what crows are. My friend got hooked in the basement, and the killer stood there hitting them on the hook over and over again. Meanwhile, a Meg in a locker in the killer's direct line of sight went from having one crow to three crows. After my friend died, since obviously the Meg's proximity countered the anti-facecamp feature, the killer walked right out of the basement to go find the final survivor.
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@SoGo said:
Does your discord have to use the same e-mail as steam?
I don't have the same mail adresses for the game and discord.
My Discord and PlayStation accounts don't share an email address, and I connected them fine. It uses the same kind of system as the BHVR account thing, where it has you log in to your gaming account while in Discord and it connects the two.
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I can't get it to work. I'm on PlayStation, I connected the accounts, changed my privacy settings (I really don't like that I have to do that, btw), and it's not seeing that I launch the game. I've tried closing and relaunching the game, and it doesn't see it.
Edit: Never mind. It finally sees when I launch the game. It seems my online status is totally separate from any privacy setting and that being set to hidden or offline or whatever was stopping Discord from seeing me. Anyway, I've played for hours today already, I'm tired. I'm going to let it sit on the menu for 15 minutes.
Also, I gave you a thumbs up for posting this on the forum. I only knew about it because someone was asking on Twitter what Switch players are supposed to do, and I was like "Discord quest? What is that?"and so I Googled it because I'd never heard of Discord quests. Anyway, did BHVR advertise this at all?
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Well, I've had survivors who, because they couldn't go next, throw themselves at the killer constantly and thus body block me during a chase. Actively making matches worse by still being in them.
I liked it better when the the survivor was just gone.