Toystory3Monkey
Toystory3Monkey
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I wish BNPs /similar perks were more about preserving progress than about adding & preserving it.
something like "toolbox no longer increases repair speed. you reduce the maximum amount of charges necessary to complete the generator instead of adding them" so that you could potentially have generator at like half charges without possibility of regression. or maybe you could've used the already existing charges on the generator to convert them into "max charges reduction" instead. So you just have a button to press that would convert some big % of already manually added charges (20-30% feels like a fair amount) into max reduction immediately.
probably not going to happen, bhvr are fine with the current version. not strong enough to break the match in hands of any monkey that takes it and that's just about the balance bar they set for stuff like this.
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@Jay_K said:
Instead of some form of base kit unbreakble why not at this point just buff the unbreakable perk. Instead of a single use have 2 or even 3 charges. This would mean that slugging would not be an ideal strategy at all for killers.
However i will note that every post i see about slugging its called a strategy. Why should ways to kill in the game be stopped fully? Reduce it sure, make it harder sure but it should never be removed from the game because when you start out right removing potential strategies from the game your telling players how they can or cannot play.
Also removing one hated strategy from the game will lead to others such as camping and tunnelling eventually being removed from the game meaning killers then have no alternative ways of playing except down, hook, hunt, down, hook, hunt and so on.All these strategies are completely fair when used in a general game what everyone needs to make a point of in posts complaining is this is about a toxic use of these strategies. Such as 4k slugging at 5 gens, Hardcode tunnelling at 5 gens. Not complain about slugging because its the best option at the time. Or tunneling because the unhooker has hidden leaving the only option a tunnel unless the killer just throws.
the issue with all these wonderful ideas is that they arent solutions for the frustration factor of the strategy, they're just killing any kinds of viability it has and don't solve it being a way to troll people.
igaf if survivors had 2,3 or infinite stacks of unbreakable, i used to bleed out lobbies with 3 exponent boons lit up playing whack a mole for 10 minutes purely because i was so much better they couldnt offer any reasonable opposition. however if i were to run in good enough opponents, even a single unbreakable stack was game changing.
study the reasons WHY slugging, a fair, balanced and legitimate strategy feels bad to face and look into the ways to relieve or address that. Stop adopting the mindless "just overbuff the counter" mindset that NEVER helps to ease the real problem
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831609#Comment_3831609
One way to give incentive to not slug would be to get rid of flashlights, flash bangs and the hatch lol. If a killer can't pick up due to flash bangs ect they will slug. If survivors get steamrolled and hide out for the hatch, killers will slug to get the 4k they rightfully should get in that situation. Slugging is often used as a counter to survivor tactics so maybe look into the root cause of why killers slug and deal with that?
nonono, lets remove a reactive strategy that serves as a way to punish and counter risky and otherwise powerful plays survivors have.
let it play it for a patch or two and then watch devs perform the most massive knee jerk reaction compensation buff to killers / nerf to survivors to address all the suddenly surfaced issues that were covered up by slugging.
we arent looking for simple solutions, we wanna see le game burn
seriously though, survivors should never ask for unfun arbitrary skill expression be taken from killers. anytime killers have a FUN and OPTIMAL/META strategies be the same thing, survivors sorely regret that experience because it means being completely destroyed by a series of 1v1s with no way to combat that on macro level.
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explorer users be like:
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831726#Comment_3831726
Because theres no money to be made by losing those hackers. It would be great for us players. But it serves no purpose than some positive PR for BHVR.
Honestly, I figured they'd want as much positive PR they can get given the state of the game.
OP asks why BHVR dont do control purchases to study the cheating software to discover efficient methods of fixing the exploits cheats use and Im asking why do they think that isn't the case already.
I dont understand why do I have to explain why this question is rhetorical and that devs most definitely already do that if that's anywhere useful to combat cheating.
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why do you think they dont do that?
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
Shared inventory would be a badass thing to add as a P100 only thing. P100 survivors share their offerings, etc with other p100 survivors they have. Same for killers. I kind of like this lol
I dont support adding QoL anti grind features as rewards for maximum grind this game has to offer
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It's not always clear whether or not they'd be cool with you killing them despite you clearly goofing around before. Feels like betrayal and a dick move.
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@angel_pellegrino said:
If gens got a repair speed bonus, it would also stop slugging in its tracks. Nobody would want to guard somebody on the ground while the gens fly in the background. Same goes for face camping. The trick to stopping that stuff is to understand what part it plays in the strategic mindset of some killers. Why they do it. There needs to be a counter that has enough weight to make the risk no longer worth the reward. But yes the bp is good as well.
the trick in fixing "annoying" in annoying strategies is not to fix the "strategy" part instead.
you failed here ngl
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I feel like people that go for p100 dont need solutions for grind and neither should new players be encouraged to go for p100 and then grind other characters if the reward would be that good.
I think P100 rewards should absolutely focus on cosmetic rewards. Animated badges/banners, unique skins or charms.
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@danielmaster87 said:
Really, dude? You're blaming it on the DS nerf? Killers are gonna tunnel because it's all they've got vs good teams, and they're not gonna change up their strategy on the assumption that your team isn't one of those teams. Even if they did, that's called playing bad on purpose. All this meaning DS is super strong against them, whether the stun is 3 seconds or 5, because it forces the killer to do another chase and stonewalls any momentum that they had.
So I get that solo queue is tough, but it's got nothing to do with the killer. This is a matchmaking issue. These are orchestrated matches that shoehorn bad survivors with good ones, and put them up against a decent killer because that's the average killer player. There's no skill. It's literally just, "Did you get a favorable matchup? No? You lose. Yes? You win."
wasnt DS nerfed like 2.5 years ago? did people just wake up, 6 months after it was re-buffed back? lmao
though they've been crying about tunnelling nonstop for 8.5 years straight, so it's more so about how intensity of tunnelling complaints hasnt reduced regardless of the changes devs make.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831265#Comment_3831265
"Waah waah waah, I'm going to perform a bunch of mental gymnastics to justify the fact that I'm playing the easy role in the game." And the funny thing is killer mains like you that complain about survivors "giving up" dont even seem to realize that the ability to give up is the only reason that survivors, solo que survivors at least, even keep playing the game at all when it is so completely imbalanced in the killers favor. So if you want to both keep the game completely imbalanced as well as complain that god forbid survivors arent forced to stay in the completely unwinnable games, then go play a single player game instead and dbd will probably be better off for it.
"ability to not play the game is why people play the game." 🤣
yeah, i knew there won't be much to talk about
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yeah, played a singularity game after like 3 minutes in queue.
relatively sweatier than event gamemode, but i dont mind, it's fun when the games felt closer.
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probably because they cant account for all kinds of idiocy, no offence
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@Seraphor said:
Are we calling GoJ killer-sided now?
I see an easily defended 3-gen with the Ruin totem right in the center.
GoJ still has bs main and rather annoying tiles.
It's definitely not a map survivors want to bring to get clear advantage, but I wouldn't want to play it any day unless im on killers that can counter main.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831588#Comment_3831588
I don't agree with that. The single-player/training should remain optional, for cases where experienced players are on a new account, or when friends start playing the game and want to jump straight into playing SWF, as SWF can be a decent learning tool in itself and this only hinders their own friends.
Just have it telegraphed well enough with a decent reward so entirely new players are still funnelled into it.
maybe, but I still believe that at least first session should not involve playing against real players.
Dota2, for example, has matchmaking against bots. You play with real players (usually noobs like you) however your opponents are replaced with bots which ensures more fair and controlled environment to grasp the basics of the game.
Ideally, new players, especially survivors, should not get into the pvp part game until they at least overcome their basic fear of the game or anxiety induced by being chased.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830647#Comment_3830647
That makes zero sense. There's been no increase of fun/chill killer games as a result of the devs' balancing. I haven't been able to play like that in years. So I don't see it. Nothing's been done to curtail SWF, and solo keeps getting buffed.
because you're stagnating as a player and your skill loses its value as other players get better while competing with each other. Killers naturally get better at their role quicker, so major survivor nerfs are usually resorted for specific occasions, however individual killers are the ones to be receiving the biggest amount of positive changes as well in order to bring them up in power level to have that killrate.
also your statement is logically flawed, just because you dont see improvement with different balance approach, it doesnt mean that a different balance approach that's clearly favouring killers even less would make things any better.
you don`t consider that if the balancing was "old" that it would've been even worse.
imagine every killer being balanced on the level of pre-buff pig/ghostface/clown with a few random outliners that inevitably get hit by nerfing bat.
devs clearly switched to 60% killrate philosophy at around late 2019, with the Oni release, because that was the moment where they started STREAKING releasing various kinds of A tier killers with a few so called "S"/"B" tier exceptions (nemesis, blight, sadako, etc) most of which got balanced later on to further fit into this design philosophy.
Do you enjoy power level of killers like Wesker, Pyramid Head, Blight, Unknown, Dracula or Singularity? That is the power level of 60% killrate design philosophy, one way or the other.
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@tak47888 said:
They should just make the 180 flick basekit again imo. It is useable anyways on PC and doesn't make him OP or something. Oni is already feeling very clunky to play and has a lot of downsides, like weak early game, fast depletion of blood fury and requiring vacuuming blood for his power. I loved him when he first was released on PTB. But when he was released on live like triple-nerfed, he did not feel the same anymore. There are still some bugs with his power, that have not been addressed in ages. He is clearly not BHVRs favorite killer.
agreed, they should just let him do that at this point. it's a fun and rewarding thing to do and its only issue is accessibility. it also rewards oni players to be more daring and risky with their power instead of resorting to more boring usage of it.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831494#Comment_3831494
There might be too many killers to effectively cover in training/content. However more could be done to teach new survivors the basics, so that when they encounter a new killer they have something to fall back on.
Currently you get one go through a few training exercises, a couple of bot matches, and then you're thrown to the wolves. That's nowhere near enough to actually learn how to play the game.
There should be a modest single player campaign. A gauntlet of about 15 bot matches that pit you against the first 5 killers (which have bot programing already thanks to 2v8) on the five core realms, with increasing difficulty owing to the killer gaining more perks, taken from the pool of their own perks plus the generic ones. E.g. match 1 is Trapper on Shelter Woods with Agitation and Brutal Strength, match 2 is Trapper on Suffocation Pit with Agi, Brutal and Unnerving, match 3 is Trapper on Coal Tower with Agi, Brutal, Unerving and NOED. Match 4 is against Wraith... and so on. And you only move on to the next one after you've escaped.
This would expose you to perks like Tinkerer, Nurses Calling, Huntress Lulaby and NOED. All of which could be safely highlighted without negatively affecting their opponent. It would teach survivors how to deal with a range of different killer powers, traps (trapper), stealth (wraith/tinkerer), ranged (billy/huntress), anti-loop (nurse), exposed (NOED) and Hexes in general. That's enough to get the fundamentals.
Make it repeatable. Give it a modest but fixed bloodpoint reward (from 5K up to 15K per match depending on the "difficulty"), with a one time 250K reward for completing all 15 for the first time to set them up with some perks.
would be nice if new players were locked from matchmaking (unless they accept SWF invite) for a while and could only play bot matches (where you could still progress and earn bloodpoints/pips) until a certain milestone. just so to confirm they arent completely clueless and get at least a few dozen hours of experience before thrown into the real games.
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@PuddleOfBludd said:
It’s crazy how this game is not designed in the slightest for new players (mostly on survivor side). You can jump into a game like Call of Duty having never played before and have time to figure it out. DBD? Good luck, hope you have a friend to carry you.
I legit feel sorry for new players.
dbd has noob mmr for like a dozen hours assuming your poor performance.
after that yeah, you're thrown right into the same pit as everyone, including 1-10k hours players that played their killer ten times more than such person even knew about the game.
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Thrilling tremors except it affects all gens and only for the duration of carrying the survivor (it stops the moment you hook a survivor).
Feel like survivors got way too good at utilizing that free pressure / time that comes from killer having to spend additional time carrying a survivor to the hook which sometimes is part of the rationale behind slugging.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831390#Comment_3831390
2.0 haste/injury version was boring, but there was NOTHING about her that warranted insta DC every game.
This.
It is something I've been saying for a while now. The "hate campaign" against Skull Merchant was allowed to go too far after her rework, and it shouldn't have.
Maybe she wasn't the most interactive killer, but there was nothing she could do that warranted a DC, as you've said.
Forcing a survivor to leave the loop? So does Artist. Getting haste after using power? So does Knight. Getting hits on most tiles? So does Xeno.
And granted, I don't think Artist and Xeno are good designs. But it is absolutely unnecessary to DC against them every game, and it was the same for Skull Merchant.
I dont think neither are bad designs and they're good in their own ways, because the issue is less about ability and more about the availability of it and how little you could possibly do. ive played a plentiful artist&xeno in competitive (aka against people that know their #########) and i never felt like these people didnt have counterplay against me, even though im very good at xenomorph and decent at artist (to at least know how her power works & utilize it successfully).
nonetheless that's irrelevant to the point as the real thing is that ultimately skull merchant was just a worse combo of clown+legion in chase that was countered in the exact same way people are used to.
people wouldve had every killer gutted if they could except nurse because she has some ######### immunity to that (they still complain but she never gets nerfed until devs mess up and release another ultra synergetic perk with her and only to specifically fix that) and then they would cry their eyes out they see same killers.
it's really hard to have sympathy for such players, all you see is them looking for excuses to give up and complain on forums where they clearly spend more time than playing the actual game.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831245#Comment_3831245
stop making it seem like skull merchant was fine and it was just survivors fault. She was unhealthy for the game
and Solo Que is not balanced it’s the worst role in the game
skull merchant was murdered because it was survivors' fault, it's an objective fact.
2.0 haste/injury version was boring, but there was NOTHING about her that warranted insta DC every game. I could understand if she was like old Legion where she just hit you once and then moonwalked for 20 seconds for guaranteed down, but she was merely a worse and slightly more annoying clown.
people refused to play still because they couldnt let go.
>and Solo Que is not balanced it’s the worst role in the game
SWF isnt balanced either, it's the best role in the game, so? Almost as if BHVR made a compromise here because they cant balance purely for great and terrible teams.
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@MrMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831378#Comment_3831378
I don't think so, he mentioned using slugging as a punishment for BM and I think it's safe to assume he means bleeding out. That's unacceptable behavior and should not be tolerated in our community, regardless of how rude the other side plays.
yeah, it's hardly used as a way to win and more like a way to make the game unnecessarily more miserable than it can already be by design.
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@MrMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831269#Comment_3831269
I do discredit my point by that, but when he mentions BM as a reason to slug in the OP, does he mean he begins slugging to punish them? What does he does when he has them all slugged? People often say they get slugged for 4 minutes just as often as they say they get bled out. I agree slugging is a viable strategy, but I do not like the implication here!
yes, fair point. it's a weird connection to make as well
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831265#Comment_3831265
This correlates to my experience as survivor.
For the last 3 months I've played survivor slightly more often and gotten to iri 1 each season. Comparatively I've gotten usually to Gold 3 or 4 on killer.
I play mostly off meta and chill builds either side, and the times where I get annoyed are 95% of the time causes by survivors.
It's dumb stuff like: -
- Looping the killer near the hook and allowing the killer to camp.
- Going for trades 20s into the hook timer to serve me up for an easy tunnel.
- Not touching gens until I get downed after looping the killer for 80s or more, making all time I buy pointless.
- Waiting around for flashlight saves that they ultimately miss, again making my loop time useless.
- All 3 other survivors trying for saves instead of someone working on gens. What's the point? I'm not dead but we've just kicked the can down the road.
- Letting go of gens the second anyone gets hooked to rush for the save. I have perks and a position way better for this save, but nope I'm the only one who waits a moment to see what the killer does.
- Only doing the gens on the outside of the map and/or all on one side, giving an easy 3 gen.
- Looping the killer near said 3-gen and getting downed in the middle of it.
- DCs because it's a Spirit, or a Wraith or because they got bamboozled on the first loop and downed fast.
- SoH for the same stupid reasons, forcing everyone to drop what they are doing to save.
- Refusing to do anything risky and leave the death hook players to take all the risks making saves or taking chase.
All of this infuriates me, because it gives the killer exactly what they want to create pressure. It's rare I've seen a killer truly hard tunnel or hard slug or hard 3-gen, often it's the result of being given the chance to do it by survivors who just don't use the large thing between their ears.
Yet on killer I have a rule of letting people go who try to play on if people quit... about 10-20% of my games people quit, and I don't even tunnel, camp, slug or anything if I have another option... I just don't get it 😕
oh, im not even GETTING into "macro mistakes" territory which is essentially boiling down to skill inflation and the fact that this game has been around for long enough for solo player side players to learn basic patterns and begin punishing survivors for making such mistakes as a lot of people are really stagnant in their game sense and only focus on mechanical skill.
that's just an even deeper layer of issue of the fact people have been optimizing playing killer for 8 years straight while survivors kinda weren't.
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@MrMori said:
You can't excuse slugging someone for BMing. That's a slippery slope and at that point, and what someone takes as BM varies, plus how poorly said BM is received varies too. And if someone BMs you and they manage to escape, then what? Do you slug the next group of survivors because the last group BMed you? Seems to be a common mindset to handle the ######### feelings of getting taunted, but that's just unreasonable. That kind of slugging is entirely and utterly in the killers control and is a pure ego move. At least the other examples make sense from a gameplay perspective.
yes, you shouldnt excuse slugging at all because it doesnt need to be excused. it's like saying excusing flashlight saves or doubling gens. people shouldnt have to excuse legitimate strategies with risk and reward to them just because they're playing pvp game and their opponent gets upset they didnt win.
you might be talking about bleeding people to death though, but that has a different name than slugging and it's important not to clump these concepts together, as you just discredit your point by that
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831245#Comment_3831245
This is making light of actual issues though, and missing the point entirely. I can tell you barely play survivor, and why would you if you want to win the game occasionally.
Saying "balance is at it's best" is completely tone deaf to the huge issues the current game has. Balance has steadily been shifting in the killer's favor for two years now, and that's been the stated goal since the devs are pushing for 60% kill rate. An arbitrary number picked out of a hat, that a lot of killer players didn't really care where it came from because it had meant a ton of bugs and changes to allow killers to win more.
Balance is the issue here. Trying to claim it's "skull merchant mentality" is insane. That killer has a 68% kill rate, and that doesn't include any games with a disconnects or games with people dying on first hook. That means the killer wins their games TWICE as often as the survivors they face. That's completely insane for a PVP game. It's a huge indicator that game balance is in a terrible place alone.
But having survivors giving up more frequently is another indicator that game balance and game health are in a terrible place.
OP nailed it: camping, tunneling, and slugging are out of control. Survivors don't feel they have any viable options to compete anymore with the cascade of killer buffs given out and seemingly endless survivor nerfs. We're nerfing distortion for crying out loud, that's how bad it's getting.
i genuinely dont want to argue with a person who has mindset like yours, because you're clearly way too invested into the issue to see things clearly. I`ll still spend my time addressing your points, because I dont want to leave that misinformation hanging there.
>Saying "balance is at it's best" is completely tone deaf to the huge issues the current game has. Balance has steadily been shifting in the killer's favor for two years now, and that's been the stated goal since the devs are pushing for 60% kill rate. An arbitrary number picked out of a hat, that a lot of killer players didn't really care where it came from because it had meant a ton of bugs and changes to allow killers to win more.
"balance is bad because it doesnt favour bad survivors anymore". Im sorry to burst your bubble, but the "60%" killrate number includes the average games of all averagely bad survivors and killers. Im afraid I think I have to tell you that would mean that survivors are more likely to have bad players on average which would drag down the good players as well.
Balancing for 50% would've made sense when survivor skill issue factor would've been eliminated, be it competitive matchmaking or self sufficient design where each survivor has independent and equal chance to earn escape. None of that will happen, so you, as a solo q victim, will suck it up, just like killers suck it up when facing SWFs that cherry pick strong links.
as for skull merchant, have you ever considered people don't necessarily DC from the games that are 100% going to lose? Especially against a killer that was made socially acceptable to give up against 5 seconds into the match without even attempting to play the match out? Has a thought ever occured to you that maybe lots of these games couldve been won games because ultimately skull merchant is an overrated C tier killer with consistent (just boring) counterplay?
>camping, tunneling, and slugging are out of control
survivors have never had this many tools, including basekit mechanics, to combat that. Imagine showing your complaint to a person in like 2021.
"waaah camping tunnelling slugging is out of control and solo q is unplayable because we have no comms"
"wait you guys have like 6-7 meta perks just to combat tunnelling, just as many to fight slugging, basekit borrowed time, a whole system that makes facecamping physically impossible with rare exceptions and you have a whole UI system that TELLS you what each of your teammates is doing at any given moment?"
if you were sent far enough, you'd cause bootstrap paradox of an entitled survivor meme.
so i`ll repeat myself again, generally the balance isn't the issue. Both sides have the ability to take stupid and op ######### or perks that counter each other's playstyles / builds in rock-paper-scissors manner. The issue is that people refuse to try and are being cheered for that.
Survivors are at fault for their misery. Not this game's supposed poor balance (which is in such a good spot rn that people unironically complain about slugging which hasnt been buffed in years). People who give up, grief and fish for the "perfect" game, not realizing they should've taken a break from this game years ago are the ones that cause your misery.
On a semi unrelated note, Im seeing that people genuinely believe they can bully people out of camping, tunnelling, sweating,etc,etc. Should be focusing on bullying people out of giving up. Address the root of the issue.
Have a good day and maybe take a break from playing this game too.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830559#Comment_3830559
It's all Singularity's got as well. Literally encouraged to do so, because hooking removes the infection for free. Wesker practically shares that weakness. I'm surprised we don't see many of these "punished for hooking" killers slugging.
because they're usually strong enough to not have to resort to slugging immediately.
wesker has built-in prevention for slugging because he insta picks up, singularity loses way more momentum by slugging if survivors are avoiding cameras correctly than by hooking.
these killers are basically not discouraged from hooking, unlike someone like twins who really cant hook even if they wanted to
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skull merchant DC mentality being rewarded instead of extra punished lead to this, imo
people give up way too easy now because there's no actual societal pressure or in-game penalties for that. no system to punish clear bad actors, nothing. DC penalties are too soft and easy to bypass, otherwise there are no stakes in the match for survivors, even made up.
solo q, objectively speaking in terms of gameplay quality and balance is at its best, yet it feels the worst because of people being awful. wonderful.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831138#Comment_3831138
“Momo7 streamed the whole thing and he plays on NA region which, no offence, is notorious for having bad players.”
Based on what exactly?
for starters on the fact he got 2k streak to begin with
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
Say it with me:
Matches. With. A. Disconnect. Aren't. Included. In. Kill. Rates.
that still screws with statistics because ppl give up even those matches they could've played out, won and thus positively contributed to statistics.
i can name a bunch of games i had just recently that survivors didnt even attempt to play out despite having decent odds for that merely because something happened that destroyed the fragile morale of one of the survivors. got unlucky hit, got outplayed, got found first with deli, they didnt like the killer, didnt like the perk, etc.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830977#Comment_3830977
There's no way that killer streak is provable. We've never had a killer capable of that. Endlessly facing bad teams would do it, but that's my point.
Momo7 streamed the whole thing and he plays on NA region which, no offence, is notorious for having bad players.
it's not impossible to get 2k streak on S tier killer with meta perks & addons while facing worst players dbd can offer until ppl from the same comp club as you gang up to stream snipe you.
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second wind is a self sufficient perk that doesnt get countered by hemorrhage status effect and which can trigger midchase.
resurgence doesnt require to heal anyone to trigger and can give your healthstate earlier.
they both are good in their own ways. resurgence is simply more convenient to use, but can be countered in more ways.
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How about we focus on changing ways matches work so people cant quickly go next as survivors instead of making the other kind of lost matches into immediate go next scenario
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@MrDardon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830129#Comment_3830129
Also the Killer Instinct Add-on for Freddy which is surprisingly good.
that one should be basekit, ngl
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830526#Comment_3830526
And they aren't to blame when they choose to take advantage of bad survivor plays. All your implying is they should choose something else and trying to shift the blame.
This is why the base kit unbreakable thing people keep asking for is such a god awful idea. Because survivors who get slugged, 99% of the time, are in that situation because THEY SCREWED UP. Rewarding them for it with a base kit second chance is asinine. The objectively correct solution would be a toggle for a faster bleedout, or a give up option. But even then, this could be abused, and you'd need to adjust the hatch mechanic to prevent this.
the issue with basekit unbreakable was less with removing penalty for making mistakes and more about turning those "mistakes" into viable plays since the punishment isn't there anymore aka allowing weaponizing the mechanic.
and now situations where you previously would've been snowballed are not like that anymore and survivors get so much more room for making plays and applying pressure where they shouldn't have it.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830645#Comment_3830645
can you explain further ?
because devs balance killers in-between "swfs" and "solos" you can have much more casual and fun games in between.
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deal with it, really
it's a necessary evil which allows a lot of things in this game to be they way, including the things that favour killer players.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830624#Comment_3830624
Your premise has two flaws. We're discussing Killer as a whole and not specific Killers. In other words, we're discussing apples and you're discussing oranges. If you want to argue there's a large delta between the power levels of different Killers I don't think anybody will seriously dispute that.
The second is that wasn't every Killer at over 50% kill rate at top MMRs with the last data released? On Nightlight doesn't every Killer have a higher percentage of games that are 3Ks and 4Ks than games of OK and 1K?
Individual Killers may need assistance as the goal kill rate is 60%, not 50%, but with every Killer killing more than Survivors escape there's no credible argument against the game being Killer sided on the whole.
killer as a whole doesnt exist. even if my premise is arguably flawed, it's at least grounded in reality.
you are discussing spherical horses in vacuum by talking about killers in general. killers in "general" do not exist. there's no such thing as "killer in general". please forget about such concept when discussing balance, it doesn't make any sense for the reasons I explained in the comment above.
regarding "50% killrate" - please refer to what I said about diluted and non excluding win conditions.
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worst part of 2v8 is that it's extremely casual gamemode where you have way less skill expression and agency. it's very boring to play, it doesn't offer anything new or fun for the survivor, it doesn't make chases more exciting, it cuts down killer variety.
the most interesting thing about this gamemode is unironically the class system and even that is hardly exciting anymore because it's essentially just a bunch of predetermined builds.
i dont understand how people can even enjoy it. i guess it's fun because you can just shut your brain off entirely or you can play with your buddy as a killer. that's about it.
i wouldnt mind the queues if the gamemode itself was even moderately appealing to me and that's can't be further from truth
i really hope BHVR create something more exciting later. 5x5 with capture point tug of war with killer+survivors team sounded way more exciting and it's sad they are not exploring that first.
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I feel it's a bit disingenuous to generalize and say the game is "killer sided" when there are 37 (or 38, i lost count) killer with varying mechanics, power levels and skill / effort requirements. You wouldn't say the game is killer sided for someone like Doctor or Demogorgon, will you? And what about Clown, Hag?
I also wouldnt operate with the statistics you've given as undeniable proof of the game being either sided. This game lacks any proper matchmaking or incentive for either side to express equal motivation to play and win in all of their matches and most of the time skill/motivation are much more impactful factors than disbalance. Look at Nurse's killrates. If we looked at that alone, I'd say she's a D tier killer in desperate need of giga buffs and games are survivor sided against
Skill / effort disparity is way more evident on the killer side where you have much more full picture of the match due to higher engagement.
It's also not very objective to talk about lack of survivor winstreaks without giving context to them. Ive seen a bunch of KL's winstreaking attempts and they all boiled down to stomping 99% of the lobbies and then getting a draw / loss when they couldn't meet their unrealistic win con against a streamsniper playing stuff like Tombstone myers. They are also often challenging themselves by self imposed restrictions. They arent running same perks, high tier items or map offerings.
Win con is another thing. The game doesnt really show you that your teammate's escapes matter (as they dont for anything other than mmr where it merely lowers your mmr gains for dying teammates) and it doesnt care much whether or not you escaped through hatch or gates. The game is very frivolous with the idea of what a true wincon is for survivors. Survivor streaks often go for unrealistic win condition that isn't supported by the base game. As far as it really goes, out of 5 people and 2 sides in the match, 3 people can lose and 2 people on the opposite sides can win.
This game isn't symmetric and win conditions are not determined symmetrically. If we start doing that and treating both teams as equal, then it boils down to the variety of options they have, which takes us back to the wide array of differently balanced killers and various options survivors have.
Another issue is the fact this game is not designed for competitive play. Matchmaking, as previously mentioned, is not accommodated for competitive play and the balance of each individual match is extremely volatile in favour of whichever side brings more ######### / gets more lucky.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830607#Comment_3830607
True that.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830609#Comment_3830609
I also think I played way too many games against him, tbh. I used to really enjoy playing against Oni in the past, but not anymore.
i'd be sick of facing my favourite killers too if that would be all i'd be seeing for long enough. Variety is crucial.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830596#Comment_3830596
Pretty much this. Swf teams are crazy, they are like a hive mind lol. Taking on 4 person swf is a sweat fest. Killers need to be able to compete against them so they get buffs. Soloq suffers the worst due to having buffed killers but don't have that swf hive mind teamwork that's needed balance it out which makes it seem killer sided.
People say nerf killers and perks but all that does is make it harder for the killers to deal with swf. Personally I think having some sort of communication in soloq would help alot. In game voice chat, sharing perk info with eachother, things that swf have but solo doesn't. This won't put soloq on par with swf due to so many solo players wanting to do challenges and adept achievements which in a way let's the whole team down if the rest are trying to escape. But not much can be done about that
It can't and won't be solved, because it would mean making the game even more competitive than it already is.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830559#Comment_3830559
Genuinely unfun games.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830583#Comment_3830583
Well, I really disliked going against those builds. But it doesn't happen often anymore, in my experience.
boils down to personal preference rather than objective issue, yes
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Start of the match / when you need to burst the gen killer can easily defend / last gen(s)
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830551#Comment_3830551
I think Infectious Fright Oni just boiled down to a miserable experience most of the time.
Thankfully I never see it anymore. Most Onis I play against just go with slowdown or, sometimes, aura reading.
not really, you just need game sense to realize when you can leave TR before he downs the survivor or hide in locker to prevent infectious trigger.
generally, people really need to start utilizing lockers as a stalling / stealth tool against slugging killers - great way to waste extra time and break that momentum.
but most people dont like bothering because it's easier to shut the brain off and autopilot the game on whatever basic skills they've learnt so far. it doesn't cut it though, those skill really devalued over years.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830540#Comment_3830540
I think it depends on several aspects of the match.
The map, which killer it is, the perks they have, the survivors, and the list goes on. Some killers will force slug situations simply because they chose to do so (bad memories of Infectious Fright and Oni / Nurse).
But yes, there are situations where the survivors caused the slugging to happen.
I think generally it's survivor's fault for enabling slugging situations in the first place. It just depends on how big that margin of error is which usually depends on how big killer's effective range of immediate attack is.
The only fair exception is knockout / third seal builds that eliminate the main risk from slugging - survivor's ability to quickly reset the downed teammate because they cant find them in the first place.
Other than that, it just boils down to how much you have to respect the killer. Infectious fright Oni is something you have to respect much more than average slugging chucky or whatever flavour of the month casual killer is.
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@GeneralV said:
Sometimes that is true, but at the end it is up to the killer to choose what to do.
it's up to survivors not to give killer extra opportunities to capitalize on.
if killer forces slug situations, then it's way riskier for them and easier to combat.
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singularity stats are disappointing.
less than 12 slipstreams per average game, less than 6 emps per average game.
what are these people doing there? are they even using the power/counterplay to it?