Toystory3Monkey
Toystory3Monkey
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@Ryan489x said:
I only said that because the RNG map selection is pretty bad I know an actual vote wouldn’t work since it’s 4 v 1 but still the offerings aren’t much better
great and your solution is to replace it with arguably less functional and worse idea?
at least current system has RNG half of the time.
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Being on the hook is also the best protection against tunnelling.
If you're worried killer might / is tunnelling, then dont unhook right away.
Wait till last 10 seconds (depending on the situation) and go for pull even if it means trading.
Most definitely that wins the team an extra minute of doing gens without having to subject your tunnelled friend to carrying the killer's attention and your whole team on their back.
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@hxp said:
The big issue with these statistics is that killers often grant the hatch or even let all survs escape. Track your own statistics as survivor and you will notice that the "official" numbers are bullshit.
and how often do survivors throw the game they could've won?
devs say they dont include DC/hook suicide stats, but that doesn't mean survivors cant give up / throw other ways.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3834111#Comment_3834111
Call it what you want. The game is a party game that wants to be a hard pvp game, but will never be, it was made this way.
justification for devs to not fully balance the game around the idea survivors can communicate and optimize teamwork.
Again, this game can't and will not be balanced. Like… does everyone not get that? They will 'adjust' and such as minimally as they can so long the cash keeps flowing. Until something gives one way or another, what we see is what we get.
you're responding to bits ripped out of context and give irrelevant answers to the actual message.
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People sleep on this perk so much because they refuse to move on from their default loadouts.
Survivor entire perk design has unironically been made with "rock paper scissors" mindset where you're meant to bring X perk to counter Y thing and hope the killer doesnt do Z. People cope so hard that it isnt like that instead of going with the flow. Antimeta builds is where survivors thrive in.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3834102#Comment_3834102
Its because you can't balance a party game the way people want dbd to be. Its literally impossible.
And its still a party game. Just now its a really bad one.
a party game is a game you play with friends. when people play in SWF, they have much better chances of success even if they arent great at this game. obviously, their success still hinges a lot on each one of them and their personal skill, but comms and ability to coordinate builds and give some information is what gives them that necessary edge to have easier time.
and if youre a solo q, you're playing a martyr role and, honestly, i really wish more people understood that. solo q exists to fill up blank spaces for incomplete SWFs and serve as meat supply for killers and justification for devs to not fully balance the game around the idea survivors can communicate and optimize teamwork.
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Its funny how scamper basically held back bigger evil that is people getting good at the actual power.
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@AhoyWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3833639#Comment_3833639
I think they really cooked with the Tunnels and the Turrets, the only issue I have is the Tail attack, from the movie standpoint it does make sense a bit, but when I imagine a xenomorph, I see a stealthy fast creature, not a creature that just stabs you to death with a tail to be honest.
I think the tail makes sense in the dynamic that power creates. It makes xenomorph very lethal at close range (turns dropped safe pallets into 50/50s) but limits his effective range and makes it possible to avoid and keep him away.
Plus the tail is a very important part of the xenomorph's arsenal, so it makes sense it's being used alongside claws. Like in Romulus we had multiple kills / injures by tail alone.
I kinda wish Xenomorph had a mechanic similar to wesker where downing survivor with a tail attack made you impale and instantly grab them, but Im content with what we have. It's not "horribly missed opportunity", it's a "Nice thing to have if it was added"
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I really hope they give ghostface haste addon basekit. It just makes sense to be included and it completes the power.
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My rework to knockout:
No longer hides dying survivor's aura
No longer has basic attack requirement
Prevents survivor from crawling for 15 seconds and slows down recovery speed by 50% (was 25%).
Doubling down on its secondary effect and making knockout the signature perk for short situational slugging - survivor cant crawl under pallet while you kick the gen or check for potential savers, nor can they recover fast to prevent quick medkit/WGLF pick up.
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Would be so boring. Just kills off variety while not removing the main balance issue (meta perk stack).
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Xenomorph power totally makes you feel like one.
Skulking predator roaming unaccessible narrow passages right near survivors, tracking them and then emerging, rushing through fire to get them no matter what throw at you.
Facing one is also very cinematic and accurate - turret beeping getting more frequent, then suddenly stopping only to rapidly increase in frequency again with xenomorph suddenly emerging, flamethrowers shooting fire at the monster as you make your way out. Literally Alien(s) scene with motion trackers / flamethrowers.
It actually recreates the experience of the xenomorph encounter, including the ways you use flames to "crowd control" the monster and keep it away from you, pushing it where you need, until it gets desperate enough to ignore flamethrowers and charge at you no matter what where it either succeeds or fails miserably, turning around and disengaging back into the tunnels, just like Xenomorph in Alien Isolation did when you burnt it. You dont "fight" it normally, it's way too strong for that, you opt for setting up traps.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
I'd say the issue is more with slugging in general right now. The fact the Twins exists and slugging is encouraged as them is gross
nobody plays twins to the point it becomes an issue.
and slugging is never really a problem unless a killer is already so much better and no matter what they do it's going to be an overkill.
it's really just a knockout problem specifically (or any permablindness effect in general) that it targets solo q ways of finding slugged teammates.
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When you fast vault window vs singularity who you know will have to teleport to you & wont be able to insta vault, dont run immediately, stand still until he teleports or vaults the window. because of the way his power works, as long as you dont move after fast vaulting, he'll TP behind the window and will be stuck in tping animation + will have to vault which will guarantee you can loop safely.
When you have a camera on the generator you repair, dont use EMP until singularity infects you. If you react fact enough, there's no conceivable way he can infect&teleport to you FASTER than you can use EMP to break camera and dispel infection. Even with an addon. This way you deny singularity passive pressure and force him to earn it by using cameras to threaten you with infection.
If you need to do stealth reset and one of you is infected, make sure to use EMP to remove infection BEFORE infection spreads, otherwise you'll give your position away with killer instinct.
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usually they dont release updates to fix niche issues that bother the character users.
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DH is an annoying perk that requires unreliable counterintuitive counterplay and considering how common it is despite having only 2 uses per match, I dont think it needs to be any better.
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Haste addon basekit.
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@I_CAME said:
Killers being strong is fine outside of a handful of exceptions. The problem is they keep nerfing maps on top of it. You can't keep reworking and releasing every killer into the A tier while we have maps like Haddonfield. If killers are going to be strong as a default then maps should be buffed. They shouldn't be balancing maps with the bottom five weakest killers in mind. It makes playing against the rest incredibly painful and unfair.
yeah, i agree.
i feel like current map balance standard should be macmillan/azarov (except gasheaven) and other similar maps. they have very balanced amount of tiles and fair/filler pallets on average.
they arent very good for killers w/o chase powers, but imo at this point they should be buffed instead at this point.
deadzone fests with mostly empty fields to w key over are funny sometimes, but utterly boring.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832939#Comment_3832939
Yeah because if Ace was in the Void there would be a turquoise icon indicating that he's in there
survivors do not see that icon
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r you sure they didnt slug your teammates in the void?
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@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832927#Comment_3832927
Survivors are 80% of the playerbase. What do you think is more enjoyable for them, a 55% kill rate or 60%?
evidently they are not :)
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@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832908#Comment_3832908
This is a false argument because those long waits were before they added a bp bonus. Right now killer has a much longer wait most of the day, in EU survivor is at 150% bp bonus most of the day. Solo Q is practically unplayable with how killer sided the game has become.
that is only true if you assume that BP incentive system works around 50/50 balance instead of 80/20.
and it would be utterly foolish to design a system that is meant to encourage players to fill up queue slots in a game requiring 4/1 player split to work around 50/50 split.
to put it simply - it only makes sense if the system gives incentive for survivors ANY TIME there's less than 80% of the current players in queue as a survivor and that is the case at almost any time in the day except evening/late night when most people are free and can play with their friends.
in reality the player split between roles is most definitely more or less equal and that's not what the game needs to fill up survivor slots at the same pace as killer's.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832873#Comment_3832873
Nurse generally has the lowest kill rate. That doesn't necessarily mean that the best killer in the game needs buffs.
Many, many of the buffs over the past couple years have been base kit for killers: bloodlust buffs, maps are smaller, pallets and tilres are weaker, more dead zones, minor reworks to buff most killers' kits (with more on the road map every time), sweeping perk buffs to information, chase, utility, and more. They buffed pig for crying out loud.
People don't generally want to acknowledge these buffs because they want more. People want to focus on regression being nerfed because that's the only category that they care about, and basically everything else has been buffed. Most seem to want all the current buffs and go back to cobruption meta.
But the game is starting to fray because it's based on this 60% kill rate. It's too high for the game to be healthy, and seemingly arbitrary. But when you have killers in the roster who are winning twice as much as the survivors they face, the devs are taking drastic measures to fix that, which people seem to hate also.
55% is likely a more healthy number to aim for, and since we passed that point, the devs should have data to see that also.
the point is that unknown was balanced with 60% KR mentality and he is just slightly above that expected killrate.
so is he, a prime example of such balance mentality, a killer that doesnt deserve his strength?
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Do you think Unknown is an overpowered killer? They balanced him for 60% and normally people think he's one of the best balanced killers in the game, whose killrate was 64% with 10% pickrate as of april 2024.
EDIT: just in case, he has received a nerf ever since and it's been a while and people adapted to him.even though devs said that they didnt feel the need to update us on KRs because they havent changed much, it's safe to assume unknown's killrate dropped a little bit from that time.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832828#Comment_3832828
I agree - blight is boring.
idc much about blight in particular, i just hate repetitive gameplay and getting blight all over again with nothing else is getting tiring. same for other few popular killers. survivor queue being nothing but like 5 same killers is why i dont play survivor that often.
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i like getting onryo instead of 534534th blight. pretty interactive and fun killer.
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id rather not, these perks are very conceptually flawed. they should get rework instead.
3 genning is still a powerful strategy and i would rather not have it buffed any more.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832748#Comment_3832748
Have we arrived at a point were we consider 8:30min matches long, though? Yeah, as killer I speedrun a couple of times sub 3min, but this weren't regular matches, the survivors were really feading themselves to me and were stubborn to get that save/finish that gen/pick that survivor up in my face or whatever.
8:30min would mean one hook each 42s, actually faster then that. Thats a pretty breakneck pace, no matter how you cut it.
im not talking about games you win by early snowballing.
average game duration shouldnt be more than 8-12 minutes. gens simply dont take that much to complete + a few minutes to wrap it up.
if people dont waste time and play efficiently, thats just about how long it should take.
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8 minutes is a lot though.
games can be lost faster.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832706#Comment_3832706
That's definitely fair about it being rng based. The killer should have an advantage in hatch race since they're faster than survivors and the killer doesn't need to hide or run away if they see the survivor, but you're right that there's a heavily randomized element to it and that it can play out without any interaction. Often I'll find hatch and give it to the survivor if they're brave enough to approach :)
I'm also pretty often running BBQ, so as soon as I hook the third survivor, I'll frequently know where the fourth is. A smart player will hide in a locker while I'm carrying the third to hook. But I find the whole hide-and-seek element to be a lot more fun than chase honestly, even as killer. Chase to me feels like a sort of forgone conclusion determined only by our relative skill in looping. So that hunt during hatch is a lot of fun for me :D
I made my point.
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Same reason we probably wont get new boons/invocations unless they're absolutely horrible - it's a flawed concept.
High risk high reward perks are generally not very liked, because people always have confirmation bias with their experience against/with these perks - they only remember when these perks WORK or DONT respectively and it often leads to devs having to balance the perks around the idea that they ALWAYS WORK just in case they actually do and it doesnt feel too bad.
And that balancing kinda defeats the whole point so it's just better not to engage with the concept in the first place.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832425#Comment_3832425
As killer, I enjoy engaging with hatch and gates and find them very fair. And that's not sarcasm... I really think it's good that the last survivor gets a chance when it's just them and me.
I also don't really feel like I have to earn anything as killer. Even against most swfs I see, I don't really feel like it's so hard to get a kill or two. And it's pretty frequent to just dominate matches against the whole survivor team and get a 3k or 4k. So letting the last survivor get a chance to get out can make it fun for both of us instead of just fun for me :)
The chance has nothing to do with an actual player interaction. Literal definition of a random coin toss.
If you lost track of the 4th survivor (and you did because if you didnt, the game is over) you have no way to even estimate where they are, you can only make a complete baseless guess.
"Maybe they're hiding near this gate, or that gate, or maybe they're hiding in that random corner of the map just to waste my time, I have no idea because in the time it took me to kill the 3rd guy and find hatch, they had all the time in the world to cross the entire map back and forth and could literally be anywhere".
That is simply lame.
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@jajay119 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832446#Comment_3832446
I can see that but we all know it’s a hand wave - they were willing it not to be an issue when they knew it would be because the evidence is already there.
we`ll just have to wait and see.
i dont really trust them with a solution, tbh. we're already past the point where their solution would be "here's a timer that just makes it so it's not an indefinite hostage situation" and it's not enough, so the next step is usually hurting good faith gameplay to try to make bad faith gameplay harder. Though in that case there's no bad faith gameplay in the first place, it would be more like just removing good faith gameplay because they`d want to prioritize survivor's fun over fairness to killer.
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@jajay119 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832441#Comment_3832441
I know why base kit UB wasn’t included my point is they should have thought of an alternative. Now we’ve handed more powers to a situation that was already problematic.
yes, but i suppose they didnt think it would be an issue.
i think when asked about finisher mori encouraging slugging for 4k, they said you cant use it if the other person is slugged. that sums it up honestly.
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@jajay119 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832427#Comment_3832427
they knew it was going to be an issue - that’s why they announced basket Unbreakable in the original PTB when the finisher Mori was announced.
I’m not quite sure how that was scrapped with no alternative but the mori went live anyway a bit here we are. The base game really needs a review so the main objective becomes more accessible for 2v1 - that’s the only logical and fair solution.
basekit UB was scrapped because it was weaponized and was unfun mechanic for both sides (mainly for killers, but I can assure you, it wasnt very fun to hold m1 for 45 seconds as survivor or have a perk slot permanently locked with a perk that doesnt really do anything normally). I wasnt even remotely surprised they scrapped it, just too many issues, not worth the value.
It took away killer's ability to punish swarming/group ups, counter sabo/saves and it also lead to hardcore slugging becoming a consistent win con because recovering w/o unbreakable perk was very hard and the moment you played whack a mole enough to get 4th survivor down, the game was instantly over which saved you a lot of time and made it actually worth doing.
so it essentially punished&took away ability to utilize slugging as a fair strategy, but made everyone double down on all toxic instances of it.
they had to find some solutions to easing the frustrations of being slugged, but they failed to realized the way to solve issues like that is not give more counterplay than they already have, but make the process itself less boring and painful. they never try, though, sadly.
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I called it from day one, but people called me crazy.
It's kinda sad how devs didnt think of anything to address 2v1/1v1 alongside adding the biggest incentive to sweat for 4k so far.
they could`ve make it so that you could kill 3rd survivor and get a hint where the 4th survivor is so you have less guessing involved at least.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832409#Comment_3832409
How is that fair? It wouldn't be organic.
The hatch mechanic is at least fair as it is random (unless offering, and even it: someone can prepare for it).
The only way to "solve" slugging for the 4k is the immediate execution of the last survivors.
I'm not for any change mind you. I kind of like both the search on one side, and the risky chance to heal your teammate.
I dont find current dynamic fun or fair.
The survivor escapes because they're good at ratting & lucky to win 50/50 (ASSUMING there was even a 50/50 to win, bc they couldve got uncounterable gates or just lucky hatch spawn). They didnt best me personally, they simply refused to engage.
It's dragged out, boring and not fun on either side to my experience. Actual chore to participate.
Killers slugging for 4k so often is a dead giveaway people dont feel like current dynamic is fair to them.
I mean, we can always just pretend there arent any issues for anyone. Slugging for 4k still has counterplay (not engaging and hiding for the timer), you can still escape vs it (if you outlast and then engage in default hatch/gates stuff), it has definitive timer to end, so technically there arent any issues for anyone. It's just not fun, just like engaging with the hatch/gates for the killer.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832400#Comment_3832400
your suggestion does nothing about slugging for the 4k. I had a suggestion that fixed it and it doesn’t punish the killer at all. You still win. Asking for one last big chase at then end is a terrible idea because most of the resources are used. How do you expect to last as you said 90 seconds with nothing? And who does this benefit most in that big chase? Yeah the killer. be less biased
it's genuinely tiring to talk to people who simultaneously purposefully ignore and misinterpret what you're saying while also taking it at face value without considering obvious implications that normally shouldn't have to be spelled out.
if the hatch/gates coin toss is replaced with a fair chase, then we can implement all kinds of solutions to stop slugging for 4k in the first place - for example by giving survivors in 2v1 unbreakable or increased gen repair speed so that going in 2v1 means aiming to kill any of them asap. It's really not that complex and Im really disappointed I have to explain what is usually implied.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832393#Comment_3832393
you want it to be one last chase instead of hatch. You know they aren’t gonna get rid of a mechanic that’s been in the game for 8 years so what’s the point of suggesting its removal
i know they can make things better instead of continuing to utilize a cheap dynamic which may easily include recycling the hatch to fit more in that dynamic.
the point is not to suggest them to remove something, the point is to suggest to make it more fair and healthy instead of naively asking them to remove all the things you dislike without addressing the things other people dislike. be less biased.
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skill inflation at its finest.
dont expect to play 8.5 y/o pvp game without matchmaking casually unless youre in top 5% players
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832390#Comment_3832390
you said you want to get rid of hatch. They aren’t gonna get rid of it.
keep missing the point of what im saying, you're definitely making me respect your opinion more by that
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832339#Comment_3832339
they are never gonna get rid of hatch. It gives an incentive to at least last to the end for survivors when the game is lost. Plus its thematic in the since that In horror movies their is always a “final survivor”. Hatch is 50/50 so you can still kill them. My suggestion removes the boring slug for 4k
you may interpret my words however you want, but im not going to engage in a discussion with you if you do that in the most incorrect way imaginable, it's pointless to argue with a strawman
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832347#Comment_3832347
Yeah, this is what I thought too. I don't support slugging for 4k, but imagine one going through hatch and the other getting out the gate. All without the killer even spotting them sometimes. I feel like that could be some pretty unengaging gameplay.
Alternatively, imagine the plight of the last survivor if the gates aren't powered at that point... Why even bother? Both scenarios aren't great :(
thats why the solution should be aimed not at just "removing slugging for 4k", but at generally reworking the 2v1/1v1 so it doesn't irreversibly suck.
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@smurf said:
This might actually be interesting in the sense that it could put the last two survivors against each other, which might play into some game the entity wants to see. I'm not sure whether I think it's good idea or not, but it's definitely interesting :)
From a gameplay perspective, I'd think this wouldn't be so fun for whoever doesn't get hatch; what would they end up doing?
just die i suppose, though knowing how biased such suggestions are, i would imagine they would say the last survivor is now allowed to interact with gates.
imagine losing half of your kills because first survivors get rng roll on the hatch and the other wins 50/50 at gates that spawned with half of the map in between them.
peak backwards solution.
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why not just give last survivor a free insta escape at this point since we arent interested in looking for a fun and more heathy compromise and instead try to make flawed cheap system work
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832276#Comment_3832276
meh
All that needs to happen is just when their are two survivors remaining, the first survivor you down automatically gets moried. Killer gets a 3k and hatch would still be in play. And if they down the final survivor they still get the base mori or hook if they want. Hatch is fine, slugging for 4k isn’t
id rather get rid of an uninteractive coin flip with hatch and gates.
i mean, surely not the people who crutch on that, but i'd rather have something more exciting and fun.
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2v1 / 1v1 dynamic generally needs a rework.
What we have rn was a 5.5 y/o band aid fix to an even worse issue (mutually taking games hostage), it's not a good design on its own.
IMO, hatch needs to be replaced with some big flashy last chase. Like, make the entity just reset half of the map, make exit gates open on their own at a very slow pace (like 90 seconds to open) and reveal killer / survivor to each other until the chase starts.
And then just turn this into a epic 1v1 standoff.
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@Laluzi said:
I think iridescents are a relic of early DBD game design that modern DBD doesn't know what to do with. Back at the start of the game, iris were meant to be huge, powerful buffs that players rarely obtained - BNPs instantly completed generators, moris allowed first down kills, keys could get all four survivors out the hatch, we had instablind flashlights… modern DBD players would hate DBD's early wild west. Iri killer addons were intended to be that same level of power. Judith's Tombstone, Black Incense, old Iri Head, old Pinky Finger, old Mother-Daughter Ring… so on.
But DBD has steadily moved away from bringable elements being able to influence a match that much. Iris are still meant to be the biggest, most game-changing killer addons… but they can't actually be strong or they fall afoul of the design philosophy and BHVR gets slammed with complaints. So they tend to run niche or weird. A few of the old powerhouses haven't been nerfed yet, and there's still some good ones like Mint Rag and Coxcombed Clapper, but it's pretty often they miss the mark and they're not often the killer's best addons.
exactly that.
in old dbd, iri addons/items were meant to be very scarce resource that had to be rightfully as powerful / transformative.
as time went by, people accumulated enough of that ######### to make it way too common to be acceptable, so devs had to balance them and design newer iri addons with less power to them.
rn the whole system is definitely terribly outdated and is in a very awkward spot, just like a lot of other mechanics in dbd.
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Meg
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@Crowman said:
If you do gens, open the exit gate, and leave you should be punished for it. Bannable even. Nothing more to say.
if you run the killer for longer than 40 seconds, you're automatically put on hook.
if you down the survivor in less than 40 seconds, they're automatically healed back and given 150% speed burst with endurance.
both scenarios are ruining the fun and enjoyment for the other side respectively. they should be eliminated. in a case when killer downs survivor at precisely 40 second mark, the snake bites its own tail and forces survivor into an endless loop of being downed and picked up which makes the game kick both players out for being smartasses and replaces them with fun and fair bots.