Toystory3Monkey
Toystory3Monkey
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@SuspiciousBrownie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843510#Comment_3843510
Sorry but that was a failure on your part for picking a completely random number that is also close to killer movement speeds.
And of course like I said you have absolutely no argument and nothing to stand on when it comes to it being bad for her to move at that speed. I don’t need to see a video. I played her on the PTB for the whole week she had the buffs. I played against her a lot too. She wasn’t overpowered, not even remotely. 10 hatchets was bad and leaving the shiny pin add on in was bad and that was it.
Thinking an 88% Huntress is Overpowered is a skill issue plain and simple.
"my failure for picking a completely random number that is also close to killer movement speeds"
ah yes, because it's so common for killers to casually move at 146% while holding their ranged powers, indeed, that's such an honest mistake from you and totally not you just not taking a second to think about it and instantly jumping to writing a "gotcha" comment.
yikes. im not going to read or reply the rest of your comment, dont think i have anything to discuss with you here.
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@SuspiciousBrownie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843478#Comment_3843478
She was NOT moving 146% lmao. She was moving at 88%. Slower than Billy, Slower than Bubba, Slower than Slinger, Slower than Trickster and still the slowest movement speed in the game besides fatigues and Meyers stalk speed.
The speed was not problematic at all and no one can, gas or will ever have a good reason it was because simply put it wasn’t.what are you fr taking "148%" in this sentence as an adjective used to describe huntress' speed and not the word "justified"?
seriously?
really?
ah yes, and "just 88%", watch how dumb huntress was on that PTB with "just 88%". Good riddance they reverted that #########.
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@SuspiciousBrownie said:
Many updates are driven by community outcry
Exactly this. Huntress got her buffs because she has an abysmally low kill rate (55% to this day) and people lost their marbles about it.
They didn’t make her overpowered even remotely and people made posts calling for it to be reverted when they never played against it or played as her with them.
The Devs even said it was reverted due to “feedback” which was honestly just survivors crying that they had to try a little bit more against Huntress.
bruh, they reverted hatchet holding speed which was 146% justified and deserved because it was beyond stupid that she could walk this fast while holding m2.
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@Steakdabait said:
My only opinion about this stuff is simply just learn to read the room of the match your in. You aren't playing against high level swfs every other match and survivors understanding the bare min of the macro of their role doesn't count as "high level" imo. Do you honestly need to 3 stage 1k timmy who clearly doesn't even know the layout of the map he's on to win? Im not saying that you never need to tunnel/heavily slug to win in some of your matches. It's 100% the only winning play sometimes, but if have to 3 stage someone every match to feel like you have a chance you need to look inward instead of blaming game balance if you're playing match make games. Just try to remember the human on the other side that's all im asking fellas.
Literally.
Get good enough & learn to understand when you can afford to at least drag the match out and don't sweat excessively.
The worst thing you can do is going for overkill performance every match. So boring for everyone involved.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843413#Comment_3843413
Did I say that you can't win against Nurse?
What I said is, that she has no counterplay in chase, because the counterplay is her making a mistake. Pallets and windows (the two main recourses for a survivor in chase) are more often gonna get you killed against a nurse. This is not good. I think there should be counterplay to a killer in chase. Nurse currently has none.
I said, that I have an issue with m1 killer gameplay coming down to survivors having to make mistakes. I heavily dislike tiles like shack.
Your last argument is flawed in itself, if I'm not misreading it. This game does not work for both sides, which has been proven again and again. Comp people force their own rules into the game to make it more fair. While casually (which are a majority of the playerbase) suffer from their optimization dripping onto the live servers.
Case and point: tunneling, camping and Gen-efficiency.
There needs to be a middle ground where good gameplay gets rewarded > the stuff you prepared pre match.
Any chase power boils down to either guessing or either side winning every time they dont make a mistake. that's how how this game works.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843368#Comment_3843368
I just commented on your responses. Sorry, if that was not fitting.
If you want to understand what im on about, heres an example of why i think that Nurses design is problematic.
First: Her design is literally:: "if I make no mistake, I win". If a nurse is on point, there is no counterplay. That phrase in itself implies that there is no counterplay whatsoever, because all "couterplay" comes down to her missing. Its the same issue that m1 killers deal with at a lot of tiles right now. If the survivor doesnt make a mistake, the m1 killer loses by default. That, in my opinion, is not good design.
Second: Improving the game overall does not only involve a slowdown mechanic for killer and an anti - tunneling, - camping and - slugging mechanic. It also involves structure and loop design. Maps are the main issue, most killers struggle with. Loops like shack are straight up unfair for your normal m1 killer, not even going into god-pallets… If these fundamental issues are addressed and design is adjusted to be more fair for m1 - oriented killers, killer powers like nurses or blights will be straight up overkill.
These are the main two reasons to why I think she HAS to change on a fundamental level.
>First: Her design is literally:: "if I make no mistake, I win"
I really dislike this strawman argument. Firstly, it's very selective, secondly this is just not true.
Nurse still has her limits outside of chase and even in direct interaction it's still possible to delay her, stall her with resources, etc. Flawless nurse still struggles and probably loses vs flawless survivors.
Survivors entire design / balancing is "if I make no mistakes I win", but people kinda dont have an issue with that because mistakes are unavoidable.
It only works if you consider nothing but chase and only chase while survivor is in range of her ability. Because otherwise it doesnt sound so perfect anymore. You can still path well, you can still be efficient on gens, you can still throw resources (DS, babysitter, DH, etc) at her, you can stall her hooks and punish slugs with comp corner, lockers, etc.
In chase you can path in such a way that she has to make a read on you and guess what you're going to do which gives her a fair chance of making a mistake.
It's not an issue in itself. A lot of things in this game if you take them in vacuum are "if you make zero mistakes with it, you always win" and just like with all things like that, "win" doesnt imply winning the game, it merely implies winning the "Interaction" or "getting value". but there's more beyond that which is what I've described above.
>Second: Improving the game overall does not only involve a slowdown mechanic for killer and an anti - tunneling, - camping and - slugging mechanic. It also involves structure and loop design. Maps are the main issue, most killers struggle with. Loops like shack are straight up unfair for your normal m1 killer, not even going into god-pallets… If these fundamental issues are addressed and design is adjusted to be more fair for m1 - oriented killers, killer powers like nurses or blights will be straight up overkill.
I dont think it's okay to put everyone on the same design rails just to address game's current issues. Firstly because old issues will be replaced with new ones, secondly, because a lot of things do more good than harm. A lot of things are the way they are because that's how the game can be fun for people that use these things or that's how developers can keep the game both casual and semi competitive without forcing neither group into playing the way they dislike. They have to be kept in check, but ultimately DbD has to be unfair because that's how a lot of people have fun in it.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843349#Comment_3843349
Then what are we arguing about?
read the thread. or this very comment where I say nurse's issues are balance issues and not her design.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843047#Comment_3843047
Dracula is hard to play?
There are a ton of killers that are a lot harder than nurse, which are still weak. There where also a lot of killers in dbd´s past that where extremely simple to play but broke into a-tier and above (New rework Freddy, Sadako 2.0)
Difficult to play does not endorse the killer to be so strong that it becomes a problem for the game. If we want the game to be in a more healthy (less tunnel, camp, slug and genrush) state, some killer powers need to be adressed. Nurse and Blight are amoung these killers.
Its not about making every killer equally strong, its about making the desparity in power level less big. A game with less unhealthy gameplay WILL be a playing field for a Nurse.
and that doesnt contradict the point im making in the slightest because I've already acknowledge nurse needs to be balanced, because her power is overpowered on top of having that particular design.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842587#Comment_3842587
Shes mostly fine for the current version of the game.
In a version of the game, where killers play for hooks rather than kills and survivors cant push gens extremely hard, her power becomes a problem real fast.
Im all for a version of the game, where killer power-levels are closee together. This is fundamentally not possible with killers like nurse. Her core design is problematic for an improved version of the game.
If we stick with this version, where lower tiers struggle on a fundamental level, then yes. Shes absolutely fine. If we want to improve the game overall, so that lower tiers have a better chance and dont struggle every game, Nurse (and other killers as well) have to change.
Im all for your suggestion, however, I can also already hear the crowd saying: "so you only want us to play slowdown then?".
here's a thing: we cant have all killers on the same power level when some killers have skill floor, ceiling and counterplay of the legion, while others are like singularity. all while in reality of devs wanting the game to be both casually and semi competitively appealing.
most of the recent killers have been A tier and most of them with a few exceptions (chucky) warrant that power level because they either are difficult enough to use, have a lot of room for skill expression or have a lot / powerful counterplay by design.
so this dream of "every killer is on the same power level" doesnt really work because killers are never going to take same effort or skill or be equally or even remotely equally interactive. nor survivors they face are all going to play above a particular level, in a particular way, etc
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842851#Comment_3842851
How after are you realistically slugged for an entire four minutes? Really? I can't remember the last time I've ever had that happen and I play way, way more than the average player.
Lastly, a four man slug is never happening unless there is a ridiculous mismatch in skill levels or the survivors are playing extremely bad.
So the likelyhood of first a 4 man slug and a 4 minute bleed out happening, is nearly non existent.
If this was even remotely common people would bring anti slug perks and get amazing value, but they don't, because they know it almost never happens.
listen, buddy, im sure it doesnt happen often, but I can tell you as a matter of fact that this happens enough to cause a lot of frustration and the objective lack of interactivity or prolonged robbery of the player`s agency is enough to warrant a solution one way or the other.
if a person has to stare at their phone and wait for a third of the match as part of the game's design, it's not a really good design and I don't think it should even be questioned.
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@joeyspeehole said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842054#Comment_3842054
Will there be any kind of borrowed time?
idk maybe, it's not a patchnote
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@Blueberry said:
I don't really see the issue with slugging to begin with.
it's not very fun to have nothing going on for 4 minutes in a game where matches last 10 minutes normally on average. Or even less if you're being slugged to death from the start.
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@Dadeordye said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842648#Comment_3842648
Maybe tone down her lunge would be good too.
probably
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842054#Comment_3842054
I would be fine with it, if timer is like 40 seconds (not affected by any perk) and it can be used only if survivor wasn't hooked yet.
yes, stuff like that.
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@Dadeordye said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842587#Comment_3842587
Now thinking of that… makes sense.
Aura perks are the most affected by this.
So we make them not work with her by adding total blindness in her Fatigue?https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842596#Comment_3842596
C'mon man.
You're smart. You understood the point.😁it makes more sense to disable auras while she's holding blink.
it's fine when she sees them in fatigue or while blinking, but at the moment where she chooses blink location it's too good.
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@radiantHero23 said:
Nurse received a lot of nerfs over the years.
However, I thank that her core design is problematic due to it being a bottleneck for perk design, as it has been proven multiple times by now.
She should change for the game to improve.
i feel like the bottleneck is very much solveable by adding mechanics that were normally added to powers that warranted that later on.
she's outdated, but not ultimately flawed in that regard.
as of now, the only bottleneck in her design is how she can point&click with auras. fix that and that's pretty much done.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842451#Comment_3842451
almost all killers break the rules of the game to some extent. thats what their powers do.That's true, but you have to look to my next sentence to see what we're talking about:
Every killer has varying pros and cons to playing around loops and pallets, Nurse just jumps past those.A strong loop is a strong loop against every killer in the game, except Nurse. Now how much of a strong loop it is and how to play it varies from killer to killer, but while shack is a strong place to run against every killer, it's really not any different from any high wall loop against Nurse. The whole concept of god pallets disappears for her and only her.
It's a fundamental difference in her design vs every other killer that makes balancing her, and introducing new killer perks, considerably difficult.
I addressed that point as well.
Nurse is the only killer in game whose movement speed is lower than such of the survivor. She effectively moves as if she's holding her power at any given moment. She cannot close in on the survivor the normal "w key forward" way because she loses distance, so unless she manages to corner them in a literal nothing, she must resort to blinking where she has to follow the rules of her power - two straight line blinks that she cant cancel halfway through.
And while she makes usually strong tiles weak, she also makes a lot of garbage tiles pretty viable against her since such map geometry can make it harder to determine survivor's position or correct the blink perfectly.
At which point we're yet again arguing balance and not core design flaw.
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just happened to me lol.
went afk for a while bc the queue was so long and came back to 3 gens left.
queues are too long for too poor quality of games
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/432993/lets-talk-about-nurse
I think a problem for Nurse is that she fundamentally breaks the rules of the game. Every killer has varying pros and cons to playing around loops and pallets, Nurse just jumps past those. It's why so many perks fall into the category of 'we can't have that because it would be too strong on Nurse'.
Her biggest weakness is her ability to get across the map, but as maps shrink to bolster M1 killers, she gets stronger as well. This is kind of why Nurse is not the dominant menace in 2v8 as she is in 1v4.
This is compounded by that until a player gets an idea of her teleports, she absolutely is garbage. So if you nerfed her power (say slowing down the speed it regens) this would become even more of a massive gulf.
The two best ideas I've heard for Nurse nerfs:
1: Blindness around her blinks to prevent the use of aura reading.
2: Spasmodic addon as a basekit requirement preventing the two tap she can do so easily and making her an M1 killer at point (this would require lots of additional changes though).
almost all killers break the rules of the game to some extent. thats what their powers do. i struggle to name a single killer whose power doesn't break the default rules of the game in one way or the other, because they always change something about the way normal match goes.
trapper places traps that can entirely bypass the whole chase&hitting sequence. wraith breaks the rule of the terror radius, hillbilly breaks the 2 hits to down & mobility rule, huntress breaks "melee range" rule, pyramid head or sadako break the hook rule, singularity breaks "pallet stops killer" rule and so on.
nurse is incapable of chasing survivors by W keying on them, she has to constantly use her blinks which comes with its pros and cons - ability to ignore orthodox map resources, at the cost of struggling to deal with normally unsafe or borderline deadzone tiles because of the way blinks work. nurse is the only killer where map resources almost dont matter which is both good and bad because you barely rely on them throughout the whole match and can give nurse a long chase if you're better than her at any point in the match.
there's nothing wrong with nurse in principle. we could argue that her blink range, cd or lunge distance can be too generous and I could even agree on that, but that's not the point you're making here.
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Here's a better idea:
after being slugged for some time, survivor can instantly pick themselves up, but they lose a hook stage.
it's completely up to them to use that ability or not so killers cant really exploit it and it can become really useful in situations where killers are ignoring hooks too much.
maybe limit it to only one use per match and only if you werent hooked once, so that it cant be exploited in mid/late game where slugging is a fair game.
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@DBD78 said:
So why do all "experts" of this game rate him as a mid-tier killer? Elite players and others there is not a single one who thinks Wraith is among the strongest killers. Only players with little time in this game thinks Wraith is super strong. He is ok but nowhere close to being too strong. Anyone can name 10 killers stronger than Wraith without thinking long.
clearly all other killers are even more overpowered and OP is just humble enough to complain only about wraith
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Her existence justifies the existence of the survivors` potential in efficiency with using perks&resources balanced for weaker players.
Killer side is inherently more competitive than survivor side and that eventually leads to people not being content with having zero agency in some of the games whatsoever. Nurse is one of those killers people who want their skill consistently rewarded eventually flock to.
She is also allowed to exist like that because she's only overpowered on a very high skill level and otherwise proves herself to be a nonissue - stats are a clear example of that. Most nurses suck and do not live up to the name she has.
It doesn't mean she won't get nerfs, but none of the nerfs she could get would ever probably change the core way she works.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3841366#Comment_3841366
Killers are miserable, and yet there's still a massive queue time for people lining up to play killer.
Which is it? Is killer more fun in this mode, or miserable?
Because you seem to want to say both in the same breath. The only way this makes any sense is if killer is miserable, yet survivor is somehow far worse (making killer the preferred role), despite having the extra features for survivor.
Which is exactly what I said. I didn't twist anything. I said the exact same thing you did. You just don't like the reality of it.
the queues will be massive unless only ¬20% of people choose to play killer with their friend while the rest choose to play boring survivor with the only appeal factor being overpowered classes. id imagine you would realize that when throwing out queue argumentation, but guess not
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3841343#Comment_3841343
I see how you're trying desperately to spin this, but let me write exactly what you said in a way that isn't trying to be killer biased:
"They've made so many improvements to the base game for killers, including base kit buffs, killer kit buffs, and map/tile/pallet changes. And to such a degree that even despite giving survivors extra base kit classes, ultimate abilities, and a slew of other mechanics that aren't in the regular game, that killer is still the more enjoyable role that people are desperate to play."
that's a nice projection, senator, but why don't you stop twisting my words to fit in your actually biased narrative.
2v8 has severe queue issues because killer role is too fun and actually has new interesting gamemode-level gameplay dynamic going on. Survivor role is dumbed down to no end and has nothing going on and the way devs try to fix it is by making killer role as miserable as possible by overbuffing survivors and expectedly fail because the balance was never the issue.
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Funny how even with all the overpowered survivors classes, killer role is still not miserable enough to not have fast enough queues with 2/8 player ratio.
Dont worry, they'll make it even worse next time
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3840713#Comment_3840713
That's fair, we did ask after all.
The same could be said for Oni though couldn't it? Yet as we compared above Oni has to build up for it and has a time limit when he does. None of the instant downs are guaranteed which is why it didn't factor into our thought process(es).
Well yes, but Oni's power on its own is MUCH more threatening than Billy, which events it out in a way.
Oni can slide around collisions, he can change his attack direction, he charges the attack way faster and can potentially down multiple survivors (though that part rarely comes into effect).
It's like why Myers' T3 is so much weaker than Oni's or Billy - because it takes different (less) amount of skill and effort to get which also gives survivors less counterplay to it.
Billy's power takes the most skill to use, but Oni's power is easier while not weaker if not stronger, but it has to be earned through playing powerless killer, while Myers only gets oneshot and mild stat boost yet he only needs to look at survivors.
It's usually the same story with similar powers like that. One takes the most effort/skill to USE while not having any other limits to it, the other is easy/straightforward but has less potential or it is just better but has some serious downside or condition that you have to play around which balances it out until certain point.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3840700#Comment_3840700
Not inherently but to us that depends on what that power is. For example: Singularity is fine because it requires more "work" to pull off via set up and does not immediately put the survivors onto the dirt. But that's just our thoughts on the matter.
I mean, it's just a different kind of input.
Billy doesn't require constant attention, but he takes immense mechanical skill to use efficiently which includes very fast reaction speed or good prediction skill to counter dodging.
His saw while being a threat in almost every loop, isn't really a guaranteed down every time and not a guaranteed hit after they've nerfed the post-saw CD recently.
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I dont think there's an inherent problem with "Spammable" powers.
Sometimes it's part of the design philosophy that makes the gameplay more distinct and allows the killer to be very relentless and aggressive in chase instead of carefully calculating every step they take. The latter gameplay doesnt appeal to everyone.
Singularity f/e is the definition of a spammable power design and damned be the one who says it's a bad power design.
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@Heliosse said:
The chase music itself could be improved since it was causing headache to some people. But the terror radius was godly.
A shame it was changed entirely, only the 32 meters part remains similar to the old one.
agreed.
it was basically bad in the same way PTB demogorgon theme was bad (there were two versions, both headache inducing).
but demo's chase theme got an insane glowup and xeno's got replaced with this generic theme. violins are cool, sure, but the droning horror noise was better
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Yeah, it's boring af on both sides.
i mean, survivor is kinda fun if you're in a party powertripping with overpowered class abilities, but that's about it.
killer is snore mimimi, survivor in general is snore mimimi.
failed gamemode that people play because it allows to play killer role with a friend.
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@angrychuck said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3839652#Comment_3839652
Why would they change hooking to remote hook. I played only killer during the anniversary and that needs to stay vaulted, and that was when it was on a token system. I'm sure that giving basekit remote hooking would not be good for anyone but killers. Also remote hooking wasn't really fun, it just gave pressure.
it surely did decrease slugging though.
i mean, my opinion on this whole matter is rather simple: either nothing needs changes because everything is already okay (it really is) OR we have to admit that slugging is common NOT because devs suddenly overbuffed slugging, but rather focused so much on giving survivors ways to recover after being hooked & nerfing killer's rewards for hooking that whoever could slug, moved to slugging at first opportunity.
And in second case something has to change for the better, not for worse.
Otherwise people should be perfectly content with all the pros and cons of current system which entirely depends on both sides being nice and not sweaty.
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@NotVerySuss said:
Nah I think unbreakable is pretty strong rn and doesn’t need any buffing..I think the best way to end slugging is if the devs gave more incentive to hooking rather than slugging.. cuz the way it is rn, slugging is better in most cases..
I think it's time we get remote hooking basekit and sabotage / bodyblock reserved for endgame or just thrilling tremors basekit for all gens.
One of the reasons I often slug is because it's simply not worth giving other survivors free time to do stuff (gens in particular) while i waste time carrying a survivor and potentially losing position bc i have to move away from them. It's detrimental to the speed of matches that is seemingly being promoted.
It would be nice if all gens got locked by the entity for the time until killer begins hooking animation, so that carrying survivor is less about giving free gen time.
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The funniest part is that killer is still more fun to play than survivor because there's more interesting stuff going on there.
Survivor is still braindead "hold m1 a bit here and there, get a free unhook" with even less chase involved. Boring role with nothing interesting except bloodpoints.
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Restoring pallets might be a bit too hard mechanic to balance yet.
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Spaghetti code.
Honestly, the best thing you can do is just follow your teammate and do the exact thing this cheesy system is meant to prevent you from doing.
best killer for pair with is huntress btw bc her hatchet doesnt break the chain for you
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@Huge_Bush said:
you can have old CoH when Killers get old Undying
huge pass, undying ruin meta sucked to play as.
i genuinely avoided running it in favour of pop because it was inconsistent AF. you never got the value you needed vs ppl you needed this value. but it surely as hell worked vs average solo q archive farming bots.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3838521#Comment_3838521
The question "will this be OP if 4 people bring it" has always kinda haunted balance, but at the same time... I feel like if people load into a lobby to see their loadout greyed out, they'd just lobby shop.It would take forever for a match to start because multiple people wanna use a meta perk or something. The limits to classes in 2v8 MIGHTVE been a trial run for this, but I doubt it'll go beyond 2v8.
either that or issues like in this thread.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3838413#Comment_3838413
I highly doubt that'll happen, because it would be considered nerfing people for playing with their friends.
not if it would work indiscriminately.
either way that's what will have to happen eventually or we'll be stuck with occasional teams like that & survivor perk design being bottlenecked by "what if they take 3-4 of this perk".
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3838118#Comment_3838118
I feel like you are drastically misunderstanding me. I'm not saying perks should be greyed out or anything. I'm saying they should do something along the lines of setting a limit of speed ups. If said limit was 15% for example, you COULD bring a perk that boosts by 6%, another that boosts by 9% and another that boosts by 8%, but even if you somehow trigger all of their requirements at the same time, you WOULDNT get a combined 23%.
I've been in favor of said limits for AWHILE now. Its a similar situation that Forever Freddy was, except reversed. For some reason instead of setting a slowdown limit, they gut the addons and called it a day. I hope that maybe in the future when they release speed up perks...maybe take a page out of autodidact's book. Its a perk that builds up to a good effect rather than immediately starts off amazing so you don't have it making huge strides until the game has been going for awhile.
im not talking about limiting gen repair speeds in particular though.
im talking about overall limit to prevent 4 man stacking same stuff so that it doesnt backfire in various ways including gen repair stack.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3838065#Comment_3838065
How is getting out in 3 minutes and spending more time in queue than in game "fun" though? I read all the time how survivors DYING after 3 minutes is unfun, but somehow doing gens and dipping in 3 minutes before even being chased is different? Was it the skillchecks that made it fun, lol? This kinda just reminds me of the depip squad back in the day. That team wasn't doing it for fun so much as doing it to prove a point.
the argument against "same perks forbidden" rule is not about such builds in particular. it's about the general fact people wouldnt be able to run the stuff they want because someone else already has it.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3837610#Comment_3837610
Feel Like they need to set a cap or something to limit just how much you can get to reduce the stacking. There's no reason we should have builds that can cut the time of a gen repair by half or more. I don't want any individual part nerfed, just limited to encourage people to not run this stuff together.
i dont think they can do much about it except implementing very long warranted "No same perks/items" rule that should at least prevent 4x of the same stuff.
yeah, it'll hurt "le fun" aspect, but i feel like survivors being able to stack same perks/items really bottlenecks the proper balancing.
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@NickMilian said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3837587#Comment_3837587
That doesn’t make much sense - if she was that easy to pick up and do well with then her pick rate would be higher but she’s currently the 8th least played killer in the game.
pickrates arent strictly caused by easiness to pick up.
there are a lot of factors for that like character's overall aesthetics, gameplay appeal, power design.
people dont like macro killers like sadako even if they're easy to get into and there are lots of more appealing options.
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@Autharia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3837609#Comment_3837609
Thing is they have been hard nerfed already. Before toolboxes lasted 2+ gens worth of charges base and wire spool added 30 charges.
they have been sidegraded to be burst gen speed instead of extended gen repair speed bonus.
they did gave more value and were stronger in the long run, but current toolboxes are unmatched when you need to rapidly complete a generator which is invaluable.
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@UndeddJester said:
I've had trouble admittedly as Killer, but I have gotten better each time I've played a particular killer.... So I'm not quite sure if the game is truly survivor sided, or if it's just easier to pick up for survivor and harder for the killer to find the right strategy...
I nearly won my third Trapper game, except I legitimately rolled a failure on 3 separate 1 square hook checks in a row and it cost me the game... xD
However aside from that, one of the best things about tabletop gaming is you can actually house rule, unlike a video game, you are in conrtol of the game. If you want some example house rules to make killer easier: -
- Remove the double tap rule (cannot injure and down a survivor innten same turn). The killer has to spend a lot of resources to do it, so if they guess right should be rewarded.
- Remove perk activations limit of once per turn for killer. The survivors get a perk once perk turn, killer can use it as many times as they have blood points to spend.
- Reduce the hook carry dice by 1. If you move 1 space that is just an instant hook with no check, as escapes and map rng shouldn't really be messing with the killer. (I'm not bitter I swear).
- Make exit gates take 4 light tokens to open instead of 3, so the killer has a slightly better chance at playing the end game.
Have fun!
>However aside from that, one of the best things about tabletop gaming is you can actually house rule, unlike a video game, you are in conrtol of the game. If you want some example house rules to make killer easier: -
One of the reasons it's so fun to play customs.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3837598#Comment_3837598
I've seen people seriously argue that whiffing needs to be punished more, I put nothing past this forum and its wacky opinions.
no way.
on a more serious note, i love running unrelenting on singularity and swinging at every pallet. that's hilarious and it actually works.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3837600#Comment_3837600
I feel like the issue with those gen rushing builds is how basically every perk/items survivors have for it stacks. With gen DEFENSE perks, we have anti-synergy to avoid stacking. Gens that are blocked won't regress and can't be kicked. Regressing gens can't be kicked, so things like Pop/ruin can't be used together. Survivor gen perks though have no such anti-synergy.
yeah, it's obviously a problem + just how bad the design of toolboxes is. But generally, it's a nonissue. It's just how far survivors can stack their capabilities. I myself ran into such squad, I think it was hens doing his WR and I barely won that and mostly because my build was a complete counter to theirs (they stacked no mither + deja&resi, I had thana and soma photo)
Normally it doesnt happen and when it happens such survs have a decent chance of accidentally 3 genning themselves and then finding out.
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He isn't a very good xeno player and he was running a meme killer build against sweaty survivor team.
Like, yeah, that's what happens.
Killers are NOT supposed to win such matchups, if they were, this game would've been unwinnable as a survivor. If you run a meme build, you should lose to people running sweaty ######### & playing to win. It's an axiom.
Not to mention this meme build is just not very well crafted. You dont need to stack 3 vault perks, you keep superior anatomy and remove other vaulting perks or you keep them and remove anatomy and use other haste / chase perks, batteries included being a must.
It's like if I were to take some goofy no mither build against 4 slowdowns sweaty artist (or any other A tier killer) and would make a post calling out people complaining about antitunnelling (or any other meta) perks and how they're a must to run in this economy.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3837463#Comment_3837463
Right there next to Up the ante for completely broken OP perks
they also need to nerf unrelenting, whiffing and not getting punished is crazy
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3837590#Comment_3837590
Wrong. There was no insult thrown at you. My ego? It was a reply. Funny you mention that - as you write back. Like I said - moving on.
please calm down and have a nice day!
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3837587#Comment_3837587
It proves nothing. Your word vomiting. I’ve no reason to argue. What do I gain from an incomplete assessment that you have given her? Nothing….so I am moving on.
now you're just coping and insulting me because your ego doesn't let you let me have the last word.
i think you should stop making such a big drama out of it and reconsider your position on this matter. maybe sadako isn't as hard you thought she was and your perspective is a bit flawed. A killer with no extra mechanical skill required and whose power must be manually countered by survivors at all times is going to be easy to pick up by definition.