TheWheelOfCheese
TheWheelOfCheese
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@sonata93 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208166#Comment_3208166
You've changed the rhetoric of your original argument, though. 🤔
You stated that I was wrong to suggest it's the killer's responsibility to not be 'offended' by an 'action intended to cause offense'; doing something offensive and 'being a jackass' are two, very different things. The aforementioned is something that breaks social etiquette and intentionally inflicts emotional harm on another - being a 'jackass' is generally someone who's just a bit annoying/obnoxious (which is exactly what I was saying in regards to teabaggers).
I agree! 'Worse stuff exists' is whataboutism and is often a thinly-veiled attempt at justifying questionable behavior - in the real world. However, I would argue that within the context of a video game, then yes: worse stuff exists. If you choose to get offended by an animation in a game based on some abstract notion that they're antagonising you - that's on you. You can easily take a deep breath, say they're being a 'jackass', and choose to not let it sour your gaming experience or take personal offense at something so insignificant.
One of the definitions of obnoxious is "highly offensive." I haven't changed my rhetoric at all, you've misunderstood it.
Your argument pretty much boils down to "people say awful things in end-game chat, therefore it's acceptable for them to be obnoxious in the match." I'm not suggesting that you should be personally responsible for ending in-game toxic behavior, but I am suggesting that defending it with "what are you gonna do" puts you on the side of the problem: being an enabler, then blaming those the behavior is directed at for feeling upset by it, dismissing it as "just an animation."
The bigoted messages you describe in post-game chat are just pixels; by your logic you don't need to be upset by them either.
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@sonata93 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207654#Comment_3207654
Yes but we're not talking about any kind of communication mechanism here which has any sensitive social/cultural/moral implications, are we?
The difference is that with written and spoken communication intent is clear. People who write horrible/offensive messages in the end-game chat are morally bankrupt - the same as someone who verbally says something offensive.
The difference here is that 'teabagging' is used in the game in many different ways. Sure, some survivors do it to be petty and tease the killer, but people also do it to be friendly, to say 'thank you' if they're given the hatch, to get their attention for a chase, or to just be silly and not take a video game so seriously.
When you say it's a gesture 'that is widely understood as something intended to cause offense' - what offense is that, exactly? As I said, maybe it's a way of teasing or being a little cheeky towards the killer if they 'lose', but isn't that the very nature of these types of games? You'd be hard pushed to find an example of any online, multiplayer game where this doesn't happen. Bad manners, competitive banter... call it what you want.
As an example, I proudly wear the LGBTQ+ flag charm in all my games and have experienced on numerous occasions people write vile comments in the EGC about it. The intent to cause offense here is pretty black and white - inarguable, in fact. That's why there are report features and policies in place to (rightfully) investigate actual issues of offensive behavior within the game and ban the people accordingly. For starters, 'teabagging' isn't reportable, and if it was, what grounds would it be on? "The survivor annoyed me because they beat me and teabagged me to let me know they beat me"... "The survivor crouched up and down a few times when they dropped a pallet and it offended me"? It's a game, it's not the real world. Should we start saying tunneling is offensive? face camping? These things (along with teabagging) may be considered 'bad manners' or whatever, but calling it an 'offense' is massively overstating it.
I stand by what I said. I personally don't teabag, but it's such a frivolous/petty little thing and there are actual people in the game (through EGC, streams, etc) saying and doing offensive things - should our energy be put into deterring that, instead? In your own words, 'isn't it really cringe' to put so much meaning and so much weight in such a meaningless thing?
It still amazes me how much prose people will write as a paraphrase of "I support people being jackasses."
"Worse stuff exists" is a poor argument, you can apply that to anything at all to justify it.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207654#Comment_3207654
Guess I’m just reductionist with my rated M for Mature game.
I like the wording here though. I do put the onus on the killer, or any mature player, to ‘not get offended.’
Congratulations on being part of the problem with this community, I guess.
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@sonata93 said:
Some survivors teabag because they feel the killer has played in a sweaty/toxic way and see it as a way of getting back at them; others teabag because they want to try and berate the killer and be toxic.
Likewise, some killers slug/tunnel/camp because from a game sense it's the best strategy at that point in the game; others do it to be sweaty and toxic (letting survivors bleed out, face camping and hitting on hook, etc.).
I will say, though: I think people make way too much of a big deal out of teabagging. Sure, it's a little petty/toxic but at the end of the day, it's just animation in a game. From a gameplay perspective, it doesn't inconvenience the killer or put the survivors at a competitive advantage in any shape or form. If it gets to the killer, that's more down to them allowing it to get to them. If it winds you up, just remember - it's a game, it's no big deal.
It's really cringe to put the onus on the killer not to get offended by a gesture that is widely understood as something intended to cause offense.
"It's just an animation."
"It's just text."
"It's just vibrations in the air."
You can be reductive all you want, but all of these things are mechanisms of communication. Your attempt to dismiss the communicated message by trying to reduce it to the mechanism is ignorant, either intentionally or unintentionally.
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If basekit infinite UB is going to be a thing, it can't be added without also nerfing/reworking Boil Over and hook sabo.
The simpler fix is to allow it to be used only under certain conditions -- once per match, or only when everyone is downed/hooked, or something like that.
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It's been said before, I'll say it again: you cannot force someone to play a match they don't want to play. Tweak all the mechanics you want, it won't happen. This is true of all online games, not just DBD.
You can, however, try not to ruin the game for other players. Using bots is one solution. You can also backfill players into a match like Overwatch does, but given that they will likely be thrown into a losing scenario, they should receive a tremendous amount of BP compensation for doing so (something like starting them off with all of the BP the quitter earned, adding in whatever the backfilled player earns in the remainder of the match, and multiplying it by something crazy like 5x).
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@CosmicScarab said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3203716#Comment_3203716
Why has a replay system not been added so that players don't have to be constantly recording? Given how prominent cheaters are and how archaic the report system is it would at least let people report if they are not constantly recording their games. As it is right now it seems like the only people who can really report cheaters are streamers.
I agree with this.
Just FYI, if you are on PC on at least Windows 10, the built-in Xbox game bar has background recording you can flip on. Obviously this requires a bit of resources so it may not work well on weaker PCs, but on most PCs it should be fine.
Once it is turned on you can just press Win+Alt+G to save off the last 5 minutes of your game. I use this all the time to report cheaters, and to my knowledge every ticket I've submitted has resulted in a ban.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3204025#Comment_3204025
It's a buff against a very unfun to go against strategy. But won't really buff swf survivors in any other way.
When it comes to strategies like camping, tunneling, and even slugging, it's fine if swf survívors get buffs as well. Of course, we still need those information buffs for solo survivors as well, to reduce the balance gap between solo and swf survivors. And ideally, we then also get some more changes to help killers along the way as well, getting rid of the aspects that are too powerful in the wrong hands. Maps are the biggest issue that come to mind in my eyes. We still have some maps that are clearly survivor sided. Arguably certain toolbox combinations, especially a toolbox with a Brand New Part, and to an extent medkits, are also too strong.
But changes that simply nerf unhealthy strategies in DBD are a good thing. No matter if they also help swf survivors. That's why I am also still hoping we will see some more nerfs to camping and tunneling in the upcoming mid chapter. If killers need some help as compensation after that, then the devs can react with some buff to killers as well. They clearly have been stepping up their game at trying to balance this game better for both sides, even if some temporary new problems arise as well.
Slugging is one of the only counters to certain survivor playstyles; if they want to take away slugging they also need to take away the survivor playstyles that necessitate it.
Another perspective is that slugging is how you punish survivors being caught together. How should the killer punish that mistake if these changes go through? We allow survivors to throw the match and still win, or do we just say that staying grouped up is actually good now?
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@ad19970 said:
Nah I doubt most killers will stop playing because of this change. Probably won't have a lot of impact at all.
Killers got a bunch of great buffs that helped them out a lot, now survivors are the ones who deserve some buffs. I am still hoping we get some more nerfs to camping and tunneling in the next patch. That's arguably what the game needs the most.
You can't just buff killers but not give survivors some improvements as well. Survivor is in a rough spot at the moment. Solo queue isn't dead or anything, unlike some believe, but it surely isn't in the best spot either. Queue times clearly show this as well.
If a few killer mains do stop playing this game because of such a change, then I am fine with that. Will maybe even out queue timea again, finally.
Survivors don't need buffs, solo survivors do.
This proposed change is a huge buff across the board, and SWFs, who are already strong enough, will be made substantially stronger. If they were going to make anything basekit, it should've been Kindred.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198117#Comment_3198117
My idea has always been to instead tie it to whether or not the Killer is in a chase or carrying someone else while anyone is on a hook. If the Killer is out hunting others, reward the Killer somehow. If the Killer is standing by, punish the Killer somehow.
In chase vs out of chase is probably the best way to handle the idea, particularly if the killer leaves the hook and chases a survivor who leads them back to the hook.
I'm still a bit wary of how this will play out when the killer knows someone else is nearby but can't find them right away.
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@MigrantTheGreat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202933#Comment_3202933
Your not seeing what killers see. Killers are mainly upset because this essentially is a nerf to killer tactics to gain momentum/snowball and of course risk/reward.
I only slug when the opportunity presents itself. Let's say I got lucky and downed someone at a strong loop with no way to avoid a flashlight. I have no choice but to chase the flashlight and the slug gets up for free with no risk/reward.
Let's keep in mind this will make perks like Knockout and Third Seal completely useless. This will also make killer more of a ######### sweat fest since killers are running out of 'fair' options to gain momentum.
This.
It also means that I can't slug someone who was just unhooked to avoid tunneling when I'm feeling nice. I have no choice but to hook or let themselves get up for free.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202948#Comment_3202948
Basekit BT and basekit UB counter cheap play styles that are boring and taking little to no skill to do. If you aren’t welcoming it in the game, then that says a lot about you as a player.
Basekit BT, yes. In fact I would like to see basekit BT buffed further.
Basekit UB, at least as currently designed, no, not even close.
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A Little Bit of Mither.
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@GannTM said:
God it’s like if the devs give one good thing to survivor then killers cry like little babies, but when killers get something, survivors always have to “adapt.” The irony.
Survivors got basekit BT and good perks like OTR in 6.1.0 and yet survivors whined and threw a tantrum about the 10% killer action speed buff and reworked DH.
Meanwhile, killers pointing out that making one of the strongest meta perks basekit and buffing it to unlimited uses might cause problems are "crying like babies."
I'll take some of whatever you're smoking, it seems like pretty strong stuff.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202920#Comment_3202920
Ah. Been a LONG time since I've used dead hard. Guess I had forgotten it needs an injury.
Yeah. And there's a few frames of warm-up on the animation. If it tanks the hit too quickly, I don't think the animation will necessarily fully play. Hitting them knocks them out of the animation. So no animation is a pretty strong sign of auto-DH, though it's not conclusive by itself because it could either just be really lucky timing or the animation bugged. (But I don't think it's a bugged animation because DH also forces you to run in a straight line for the duration, which you don't see here at all.)
Also note that DH was recently changed to grant endurance instead of I-frames.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202913#Comment_3202913
I thought maybe auto dh, but wouldn't that have triggered on the first attack? Also there's no dh animation.
No, you must be injured to use DH. And Endurance only prevents damage that downs you anyway, it would be useless while healthy and not exposed.
Plus you can't DH mid-vault.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202904#Comment_3202904
That would only apply if she had been healed from the dying state by someone running WGLF.
Yeah I edited, it's possible that happened before, but the chase lasts longer than 10 seconds here.
I think it's auto-DH. Nothing else makes sense.
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Could it be auto-DH? That's the only thing that makes sense.
I thought WGLF but that only lasts 10sec and you chased her longer than that.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202303#Comment_3202303
Tell me you don't play killer without telling me you don't play killer.I don't play killer outside of archive because it is embarrassingly easy starting out as Killer. I have no problem believing there is some threshold/time period of the day were killer becomes a challenge, I'm just aware that is not the experience all the time. And while I don't have access to the data, I doubt coordinated 4 player SWF is a common experience across the player base.
The amount of time required to hook someone gives the other survivor right on top of you a crazy amount of distance, and it takes mere seconds to unhook vs taking 30 seconds to pick up.Sure, there are trade offs. Now the trade offs are different than they were before. Players will adapt.
I pretty much never run 4 stacked slowdown perks because I think other perks are more fun, but if this change goes through then it may become necessary because BHVR is removing a play style that can be used to naturally slow down the game.I mean, it sounds like to accomplish your goal you are going to have to use perks, which is what survivors are constantly told they need to do to counter killer play styles. The advantage for killer is you don't have to coordinate with anyone else to actually do so.
And while I don't have access to the data, I doubt coordinated 4 player SWF is a common experience across the player base.
You don't need a coordinated 4-player SWF to make this change ridiculously OP, you just need all 4 survivors running UB and holding M1 any time they go down, which players should already be doing.
It's a ridiculous nerf to a legitimate killer tactic, for apparently no justifiable reason.
Sure, there are trade offs. Now the trade offs are different than they were before. Players will adapt.
The trade-offs effectively remove an entire tactic. The decision of hooking vs slugging required game sense to determine which was the best play at a given moment. This change removes that choice; slugging is never the right play anymore, unless the survivors are playing so horribly that you can get a second down fast enough to go back and hook the first slug, in which case you're probably going to win no matter how you play anyway.
I mean, it sounds like to accomplish your goal you are going to have to use perks, which is what survivors are constantly told they need to do to counter killer play styles. The advantage for killer is you don't have to coordinate with anyone else to actually do so.
Yes, the same perks that survivors complain about on here all the time. This seems like a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
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@Cybil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202262#Comment_3202262
Biggest takeaway from this thread. Quicker killer queue would be fantastic.
I'll take waiting in queue for 30-60 seconds for a fun match over waiting in queue 5 seconds for a crap one.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202219#Comment_3202219
1 slugged, 1 chased, 1 pick up becomes 1 slugged for longer and 1 chased. I'll grant that makes survivors stronger, but it doesn't seem to be the level people are saying.
And if you want the 1/1/1, take the risk to throw them on the hook.
Unbreakable: It still takes a perk slot and is useless if you never have a situation were you aren't just picked up and thrown on the hook.
Top Levels of Play: Slugging is abused at low and mid level of play ruining games. Even if everything you say is 100% correct and unfixable, its a worthwhile change to make the game better for, to my understanding, the vast majority of players and worry about how to fix the issue with the minority occurrences later. BHVR would be crazy if they had any other type of strategy.
1 slugged, 1 chased, 1 pick up becomes 1 slugged for longer and 1 chased. I'll grant that makes survivors stronger, but it doesn't seem to be the level people are saying.
22 seconds to pick yourself up is not "slugged for longer." Recovering from 0% takes 32 seconds, this is actually faster than someone coming to pick you up.
If this change goes through, UB will be effectively required meta like DH was. You will see all 4 survivors running it every match, especially since old DH required at least some skill to use effectively; UB requires no skill at all. You would be insane not to bring it.
And if you want the 1/1/1, take the risk to throw them on the hook.
Tell me you don't play killer without telling me you don't play killer.
The amount of time required to hook someone gives the other survivor right on top of you a crazy amount of distance, and it takes mere seconds to unhook vs taking 30 seconds to pick up. Slugging can actually generate more pressure than hooking under the right circumstances. Instead of slugging being sometimes the right play when the survivors are caught together, basekit UB makes it pretty much never the right play. It takes away a huge tool the killer has to punish survivor mistakes.
Survivors will be able to throw the match and still get 2 or 3 out. This already can happen with UB as it exists today and people are claiming that it won't happen with basekit unlimited UB.
Top Levels of Play: Slugging is abused at low and mid level of play ruining games. Even if everything you say is 100% correct and unfixable, its a worthwhile change to make the game better for, to my understanding, the vast majority of players and worry about how to fix the issue with the minority occurrences later. BHVR would be crazy if they had any other type of strategy.
If you mean bleeding everyone out for 4 minutes, there are other ways to address that short of giving everyone one of the strongest meta perks in the game for free, with unlimited uses.
The survivors' primary resource is numbers: spreading themselves across the maps and pressuring gens.
The killer's primary resource is time: knowing where to spend their time is key.
This change removes one of the primary mechanisms killers have to buy themselves a little more time. I pretty much never run 4 stacked slowdown perks because I think other perks are more fun, but if this change goes through then it may become necessary because BHVR is removing a play style that can be used to naturally slow down the game.
Balancing around the low-to-mid MMR range is a mistake many other games have fallen into and it winds up killing the game in the long run, because the devoted players who are at high MMR leave. I'm not saying you can't give buffs that help in the lower brackets but you have to consider how it's going to affect the higher brackets. If it makes them borderline unplayable then you have a problem.
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Before, slugging occupied three survivors: 1 slugged, 1 being chased, 1 coming to pick up.
Now, especially with Unbreakable, nobody needs to come pick up. The pressure of slugging at vital moments has been nerfed approximately to 66% of what it was before.
This is a huge nerf and it deserves all of the backlash it's receiving.
It is just a PTB, but how many times in the past has BHVR released a PTB, the community has pointed out huge problems, and they are set live anyway?
Remember Boil Over? This is that, but worse.
A lot worse.
And I have little faith in BHVR to change course at this point.
At least with 6.1 they did address endurance stacking and Reassurance being busted before it went live, so there's a glimmer of hope. But the track record thus far gives me significant cause for worry.
BHVR doesn't seem to ever consider how stuff they introduce will be (ab)used at the top levels of play, at least not until people show them after they've already released it.
We need to start making noise now, and I'm glad people are.
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@Brimp said:
You misread their post. Its a flat 45 second duration from being downed. It doesn't let the recovery system fully complete until the 45 seconds are up.
This is incorrect. I've bolded the part you missed:
After being left on the ground for 45 seconds, Survivors will now gain the ability to pick themselves up without the need of any Perks. This time is affected by recovery speed effects.
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I think the concept of slowing down entity progression just doesn't really solve the problem.
The best idea I've heard would also counter tunneling: shared hook states. I don't necessarily think 12 completely shared hook states are the answer, because being unable to kill someone until the 9th hook is too long, but something along the lines of you being unable to move to the second hook state until everyone else is at the first hook state could work.
In other words, if you would move to stage 2 but there is at least one player left who hasn't been hooked, your hook stage resets and one of the unhooked players at random will get your hook state instead. This would require a minimum of 6 hook states until the first kill, also requiring someone who facecamps the first hook to sit through 6 entire hook states before the survivor is sacrificed.
The downside to this is you could randomly receive a hook state because one of your teammates is a potato. Tunneling a weak survivor has the potential to be advantageous not to get them out early (that wouldn't work anymore) but instead would give you "free" hook states on more skilled survivors that you couldn't catch.
Another downside is it makes hook trading unnecessary in the early game, because the trade is essentially made automatic. Though you could argue you only need to trade if the killer is camping anyway, so in that sense maybe it's a good thing.
I don't think it's a perfect idea, but I like it more than slowing entity progression based on killer proximity, because it effectively forces spreading hook states whether the killer wants to or not.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198127#Comment_3198127
At least the subtle ones don't hold you hostage for two hours.
Correct, they don't.
They make you question your own skill, slowly driving you crazy through the course of the match, which is substantially less pleasant.
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@Mat_Sella said:
there should be checks and balances at the very least
Players shouldnt be able to move faster than x% speed
Players shouldnt be able to reach x Height
Players shouldnt be able to be in the air for x time
Stun times should be limited to x seconds
Blinds should be limited to x seconds
Gen speeds should be limited to x charges per second
No more than one killer can be in the match
If you do this, what is a hacker gonna do?
This would flag blatant cheaters, but the subtle ones are the real problem. All this would do is turn every blatant cheater into a subtle cheater to avoid being banned, making a bad situation worse.
The real problem is the lack of a streamlined report system. The current report system is just awful. It's time-consuming and requires a basic competency for video capture and editing to submit clips of the match.
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I would love to see an actual solution for camping but I don't think one can exist based on killer proximity to hook because one side or the other will game that line to their advantage.
And no solution for camping will work as long as Hag or Twins exist. Possibly even Huntress. They can camp from the other side of the map.
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@MDRSan said:
Provided it was coded to only trigger at the same rough elevation the hook is at and generators were prevented from spawning within the same range of a hook I don’t see what the issue would be. If a survivor camps close to the person hooked to slow down their progression that’s now 2 survivors not doing gens. Arguments that the killer isn't able to prevent an unhooking without sacrificing hook progression speed miss the point - they’re supposed to get unhooked most of the time (at least on 1st hook). Saying ‘but I get punished for camping’ to an idea meant to discourage camping is a little nonsensical. Go hunt for those other survivors on gens, that’s what I do.
Saying ‘but I get punished for camping’ to an idea meant to discourage camping is a little nonsensical. Go hunt for those other survivors on gens, that’s what I do.
Being punished for being around the hook while there is another survivor around the hook is nonsensical.
Like I said, the problem is that whatever rule you come up with, one side or the other will game it to their advantage, and there's lots of edge cases for subjective concepts like camping. E.g. this rule says camping is within 20m, so killers will camp at 21m.
Oddly, this rule wouldn't even punish the quintessential camper: basement Bubba. He'd just have to camp the basement entrance from outside, which is usually the better choice anyway.
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@FreddyVoorhees said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198093#Comment_3198093
I think that moving about outside a colored 20m radius should help find or flush out lurking players , or even slug and check first. 50% slower sacrifice could be gradual (increases during 30s), its revert too so it would not be as obvious. Gradual slowdown would also give you time to scout.
Maybe, but even so this would only punish camping on weaker killers anyway. Nurse, Blight, and Billy can be outside of the radius and then be on top of the hook in seconds. Huntress and Deathslinger can both proxy camp from a pretty big distance (Huntress moreso). Oh... and then there's Hag, who can camp from up to 40m away.
It's a good idea on paper but it just doesn't work.
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@FreddyVoorhees said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198063#Comment_3198063
If a survivor is also within 20m then sacrifice goes at 100% speed. So no abuse. I believe we can craft a system that works.
This would potentially help solve the problem, but would also give the killer free information. It's a valid play for a survivor to lurk the hook and wait for the killer to leave.
In fact, this would be stronger than basekit Whispers, because Whispers procs on any alive survivor, including hooked survivors. Whispers would not tell the killer another survivor is near, but watching the hook timer would, and it would only take a few pixels for an observant killer to determine someone is nearby and start looking for them.
So one could argue that progression should only revert to 100% while in chase, but there's times when I've hooked someone and I know there's another survivor nearby so I stick around a bit to try to flush them out. So that would punish the killer for paying attention and sticking around by making the entity progression slower until he finds the hiding survivor.
The problem is that what actually constitutes camping is subjective enough that you can't really create a bright-line rule to decide what's camping and what's not. As soon as you create the rule, one side or the other will game the rule to their advantage.
The ONLY way I can see this working is if you just hide the hook timer from the killer, which seems a bit silly. The killer already can't see hook states; taking away even more information I think is a non-starter.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198063#Comment_3198063
"There would have to be conditions on this. It couldn't apply once all gens are done (killer has nothing else to patrol) nor when there is a survivor within some meters of the hook, otherwise survivors will intentionally loop near the hooked survivor to extend their hook timer, which buys the team more time to do gens."
I don't see how this would work. How long is one survivor going to be able to loop around one or two cells? Long enough to offset the -33% manpower working on gens? Long enough to offset the fact that you then have two on hooks and probably only two gens done at max?
It really depends on the tiles. Suffocation Pit can have some nasty tile spawns, for example. Maps with more than one floor would also potentially be problematic.
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There would have to be conditions on this. It couldn't apply once all gens are done (killer has nothing else to patrol) nor when there is a survivor within some meters of the hook, otherwise survivors will intentionally loop near the hooked survivor to extend their hook timer, which buys the team more time to do gens.
But, that would effectively give the killer basekit Whispers if they are observant; they'd be able to tell if there is a survivor nearby by watching the hook timer.
I don't think slower entity progression while the killer is near is feasible.
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@buffcoyote said:
Genrushing does not exist. I don’t care how much you want it to. If you can’t generate and control map pressure, then that’s a skill issue. Do Gen times still need work? Yes. But you can only get “genrushed” if you tunnel, or stand still and do nothing. Camping defeats the entire purpose of the game. Chase, down and hook. Not hook one and stand still for 5 minutes until the others come to save.
When did I say I want genrushing to exist?
You are requesting that killers not complete their objective a certain way. Can I not do the same of survivors? If not, why not?
On a side note, you've said that camping is not an intended mechanic because there's nothing in the game that buffs/supports it. That's pretty much exactly the sole purpose of Insidious and Monstrous Shrine.
This community reminds me of the shooter communities of old complaining incessantly about spawn camping. People trying to gatekeep what constitutes valid playstyles will always amuse me, because it's a pointless endeavor.
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The point is that both gen rushing and camping are ways for each side to complete their objective. The survivors want to escape, the killer wants to kill.
Picking and choosing how each side gets to complete their objective is ridiculous.
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@buffcoyote said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3197713#Comment_3197713
Doing the objective in the game is not toxic. That is what survivors are supposed to do; it is the crux of their escape plan. I'm not sure what you are requesting here. Are you demanding that survivors not escape by doing Gens, stand by and let you kill them instead? On the other hand, there are no specific add-ons, offerings or anything else that is specifically designed to enhance camping. There may be some by side effect, but that was not their intended purpose. Therefore it is abuse of the game mechanics and should be punished. Bringing in a BNP coupled with a toolbox is not abuse, it is a literal item in the game. Camping is not an item, nor was it an intended feature.
Translation: "I'll do my objective how I want, but you can only do your objective a specific way."
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3197535#Comment_3197535
Exactly this. Most Killer Challenges are just "play the game". And the one time a Killer Challenge actually affects the Killer gameplay, the complaints start.
The weird part is, this changed over the last few tomes. I've gone back into the archives to do a lot of the older tomes and it was the exact polar opposite. Survivor challenges were do gens, heal teammates, unhook safely, etc. Killer challenges were like sacrifice all 4 survivors in the basement in one match, interrupt and grab someone off a gen after blinking 3 times, crossmap someone with a hatchet 3 times in a match, etc.
I get the pickle BHVR is in though, because achievements tend to be either in the "you get them for free" category or the "you throw the match trying to get them" category. It's really hard to make a fun challenge that you have to put a bit of extra effort into, but don't have to throw the match to get.
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BHVR cares more about bad words on the forums for their ESRB-M-rated game than they care about cheaters. I hate to be pessimistic, but they've made that abundantly clear and it makes me both sad and angry.
Preventing cheating is a difficult problem, but I've never seen an online game require you to jump through so many hoops to report cheaters as DBD does. The reporting process should be streamlined and so simple that it takes maybe 15-30 seconds to write a little memo about what you observed in the match.
I would love to see the reporting process reworked within the next 6 months, but given that this has been an issue for YEARS and BHVR hasn't apparently spent a single ounce of effort to make reporting easier does not give me confidence that they will address this at all. They seem content to release new (often broken) content and take our money without addressing a core problem like reporting cheaters.
It's a shame. A real fudgin' darn shame.
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I don't think it's really that unpopular. People just like to complain, so you're going to see a lot more threads of people whining about stuff than people being happy about stuff.
Put another way, what's more likely to make people come to the forums and make a post: a really fun match, or a really unfun match?
That's why you always take whining with a heaping spoonful of salt. It's almost always people venting about how their last match didn't go the way they wanted.
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I just did the challenge with Nurse since she's rarely pallet stunned and doesn't need to break anything. The most punishing aspect for her is the missed hit cooldown.
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They were probably using Lucky Break.
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Pls give back old Coldwind, the new one is just so hard on the eyes and doesn't fit the game's theme at all.
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@Blue_Archer33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3184673#Comment_3184673
This is precisely how I get the best value out of the power.
However (and as I probably should've specified in the original post) I meant to ask if using the Bounds for map traversal OUTSIDE of chase helps much at all. In-chase bounds are great.
It does help, yes. Any extra time to push survivors off of generators helps, and it adds up over the course of the match.
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@Ryuhi said:
TBH the perk needs an entire rework now that its primary reason for being taken is gone. The aura reading isnt even relevant with Darkness Revealed in the game, especially since its absurd number of counterplays are still there.
Darkness Revealed is a far inferior perk to BBQ. BBQ gives consistent value at a very useful time for the killer. Darkness Revealed is a coin flip if it will even reveal anyone at all (especially on some maps).
I ran Darkness Revealed on my Huntress for weeks since in theory it synergizes with her very well as she has to reload at lockers, but I got so little value from it that I took it off.
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@Rudjohns said:
So balanced that I know a streamer with a 150 streak win (not sure if its survivor or killer)
It's expected that the top players are going to win almost all of their matches in a game without any real matchmaking. (ED matchmaking is basically random.)
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@Neamy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3184670#Comment_3184670
It is when the maps are even bigger, as the evil one you have specific places only you can lay traps/spawn baddies. Sometimes it can take two minutes when the good guys do an objective to even get back to them, then it’s back to laying traps again.
I think they fixed this in the most recent patch so that when you are exorcised you spawn within some distance of the next objective.
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Not sure what notes they could even take given that the games are totally different. The survivors can kill the demon's units, they have health+shield resources instead of discrete health states, they have dozens of different weapons with different ammo types, dead survivors can be resurrected... there's literally no gameplay concept that is common between the games.
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It is worth it, absolutely. Not as good as Blight's rush, but it's still very good even taking charge/recovery into account.
Consider that using it in chase after landing a hit can almost immediately gain you back all of the distance the survivor gained from the hit speed boost, if the survivor ran in a straight line away from you. That's a lot of distance gain in a short time.
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I don't enjoy playing as Hag or vs Hag. In my opinion, if you take everything that is unfun about DBD and put it together, you get Hag's playstyle. Her kit actively encourages hard proxy camping and creates boring chases.
I would rather play against Legion.
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@hatchetChugger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3182249#Comment_3182249
Blight and Nurse should have their terror radius increased while using/charging power so it doesn't buff agi-struck.
That's why I suggested maybe a lullaby instead of increased TR. I think increased TR only while charging wouldn't be that beneficial; nurse can full charge a blink in only 2 seconds.
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I'm all for this. I'll mute survivor proxy chat and let them distract each other.