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@Lima24927 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3240670#Comment_3240670
have you considered the possibility of listening to all professional players who clearly stated nurse is broken OP and needs to be nerfed ?
The outliers? I think I already stated my position about balancing around outliers.
Edit: Also, Otzdarva didn't say Nurse was broken. He suggested changes he thought might enhance the overall player experience with an eye to reducing camping and tunneling as one of his guiding principles in his suggestions.
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@Lima24927 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3240646#Comment_3240646
it's because i don't think you are any important for me to care and go for accurate numbers, 99% of everyone will just rather believe on supaalf and otzdarva instead of listening to any bollocks you have to say, sorry to hurt your feelings nurse fanboy, don't worry it will be nerfed soon, so i will message you to see your tears
Have you considered there's a possibility that your emotional investment in the issue might be affecting your ability to think logically about this?
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3240621#Comment_3240621
It's our fault. We shouldn't be trying to espouse any common sense on a Nurse thread. It's illegal.
I think you're correct.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3240125#Comment_3240125
It is what it is at this point, I'm done replying to anything from him that isn't a steam friend code, if he isn't wanting to play because of time zone and scheduling differences that's fine he can pick and choose who he wants I'm not gonna waste my time anymore I've literally asked him all week in several different threads for his ID, I guess it's just not meant to be for me, hopefully one of these EU server players will step up and take that away from him where it can't be the reason hes not available.
So no match is taking place today? I'm completely shocked.
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@Lima24927 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3240583#Comment_3240583
i mean, you are just making a joke out of yourself, look at how many upvotes i got on my initial post, now look yours, i guess people agrees more with me than with you, how do you react to that ?
"Losing my grip over a killer", honestly its pretty rare to go against a nurse, and some maps does helps to play against her, like very large maps, red forest, RPD, or maps with a lot of tall obstacles or walls, like lerys, that naturally denies her power a little.
now, i will give some ideas that can shine some light on maybe how to make her a bit more balanced, you might learn by reading as well:
Chain-Blink
- Chain Blink Window duration: 1.5 seconds ---- > Nerf this to 1 second
Fatigue:
- Base Fatigue duration: 2 seconds --> increase this to 2.5 seconds
- Chain-Blink penalty: +0.5 seconds each ----> increase this to 1.5 seconds, to make chain blinking riskier and not be spammed.
- 1 Blink: 2 seconds -----> increase this to 2.5 seconds
- 2 Blinks: 2.5 seconds -----increase this to 4 or 4.5 seconds this will punish the nurse if she miss, and will give the survivor time to run or create distance, since he can't rely on pallets or obstacles, this preserve the nurse capability of going trough walls and up/down with the blind, but makes it less oppressive.
- 3 Blinks: 3 seconds ----------> increase to 5
- Blink Attack penalty: +1 second
- Heavy painting addon
- Increases the maximum range of the Blink by +4 metres. -----> Decrease this to 2 metres.
- Increases the Charge time of the Blink by +20 %. -----> increase this to 30%
- Increases the duration of the Blink by +20 %.
- Increases the maximum range of the Blink by +6 metres. -----> decrease this to 3 metres
- Increases the Charge time of the Blink by +30 %. -----> increase this to 35%
- Increases the duration of the Blink by +30 %. --------- decrease this to 20%
Another option would be to entirely remove these addons, and give her something different instead, like reveal survivors auras for 2 seconds after a blink if they are at about 8 metres around you.
give her the option to cancel the blink to compensate for the changes
There are many things that can be done to balance nurse while preserve her unique power
Did you just seriously and unironically try to use number of upvotes on a video game forum to justify your position?
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@Lima24927 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3240505#Comment_3240505
such evidence isnt documented, as its not that simple to read basic numbers regarding killer power, Nurse has the lowest kill rate and ping head has the highest kill rate, according to BHRV, does that means pinhead is stronger ? no , nurse players needs time to learn how to play nurse, while pinhead is easier in comparison, so people with lets say, less than 500 hours on nurse will drag the numbers down, while this effect doesnt happens with pinhead, the harder to learn killers are on the bottom, because they take all kinds of players into consideration, like a 10 hours nurse, nurse is 52% , blight 57% and pinhead & sadako 63%, yet everyone knows sadako isnt strong, pinhead can be strong, but not like nurse or blight, so even on the bottom numbers, blight and nurse are the only killers considered to be tier S, also the most picked killer for championship gameplay
And BHVR should consider the data when making balance considerations. Perception does not always equal reality. The reality for Nurse is that she has the lowest Kill rates at low MMR with her Kill rates increasing as you move up in MMR and, even at the top 5% MMR, her kill rates are not out of line with other Killers.
Championship gameplay is, by definition, the outliers. This isn't a spectator sport like major league football; this is a video game and the participants shouldn't lose the ability to have fun because the top 0.1% can do amazing things.
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@Lima24927 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3240468#Comment_3240468
no one is talking exclusively about outliers as you claim, average nurses do quite well here, and the point is that nurse has a broken power, thats all, she needs to be balanced to fall in line with all other killers, keep the teleportation power but make it less oppressive, less OP so survivors can actually have a chance on chase
No problem, please show me the evidence that Nurse has a kill rate that justifies nerfs without pointing to outliers.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3240434#Comment_3240434
This is a great point. I like your vision
To no say that SupaAlf doesn't deserve claps for the great plays, he does.
Thank you. Yeah, SupaAlf 100% deserves it as does Hens and his SWF and Wima with his 363 escape streak. They also faced Nurses and beat them quite handily. I just mention them because the 'Nerf Nurse' people also ignore that there are SWFs that are outliers. If we balance around outliers why not balance survivors around outliers as well? BHVR wisely doesn't because it would make the game unplayable. Balancing around outliers just wrecks the game for someone so it is best not to do it.
@Omans said:
Funny how in the other thread nurse defenders got absolutely taken to school by a commenter, and now they are all in this thread pretending nothing happened. They have no interest in the balance of this game, only keeping the status quo, and the easy wins their OP character gives them.
It was Saturday evening which could have something to do with a lack of replies. You still haven't directed me to the comment that argues against any issues with Nurse must be limited to a tiny fraction of the playerbase nor how this invalidates the concept that you shouldn't balance around a tiny fraction of the playerbase.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3240406#Comment_3240406
This is pretty much what I'm saying.
I agree with you completely. The problem all these 'Nerf Nurse!' threads have in common is that they point to outliers. Balancing at the top is a poor strategy. I hate to kick them while they're down but look at VHS. They balanced around the top and lost over 90% of their playerbase from when they opened for Early Access. Balancing around outliers isn't fair to the other players. People should just accept outliers are outliers and move on to things that are important to the majority of players (I'll insert a shameless plug for solo queue status icons here).
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SupaAlf is an outlier. You don't balance a video game on outliers if you expect to retain your playerbase.
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@Omans said:
As expected, a poster comes in and stomps all over everything these nurse defenders are trying to claim, and suddenly they are all nowhere to be seen.
Like, if you want to play an OP character, just admit it. You aren't fooling anyone by trying to convince people nurse is fine.
Who stomped over everybody? I read all the posts and I don't see it.
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Absolutely 100% no. The only thing grades give now is BP. We don't need more elitism or any elitism for that matter. What people need is more BP.
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Self Care, in my opinion, can be strong when it synergizes with other perks and is used correctly. However, I see very few situations where Self Care is better than Built to Last with charge add-ons. Even taking the recharge time into account, Built to Last with a medkit heals you faster and your teammates as well.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237434#Comment_3237434
The issue is that no other Killer has such an adverse reaction from players as much as Nurse. I believe myself to be a far below average Nurse and I can get 4ks (or 3k+hatch when not slugging for 4k) with BP meme perks. No other Killer can perform at that level. When people are unwilling to take that risk that they are against a sub-optimal Nurse, that is the issue.
Your streamer tirade is irrelevant to the topic that was being discussed, because the argument was how popular the opinion was that Nurse is an issue. By showing numerous sources, it can reasonably be inferred, that this isn't a fringe opinion coming out of left field. This is a legitimate complaint shared by the userbase. If you watched the Otz video you would see that even with that weak 'ignore basic mechanics' argument there are still a multitude of real criticisms, and those criticisms are the ones you are dancing around by pretending there isn't an issue
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237441#Comment_3237441
I am trying to reason with you, but you are phrasing things in such a manner that it is impossible to fight on your turf. You will only allow evidence you deem fit, and even seeing things in front of your eyes you still dismiss them as if they never existed (eg. 4 insta-DCs).
You say Nurse isn't an issue, I proved they nerfed a PTB perk due to seeing how she made it a problem. You say other people don't think she is OP, then I list 4 different videos of content creators (of varying sizes and target demographics of the DBD community) all saying she is OP or needs to be dealt with in some fashion. You allude to other people not mattering, the only opinion of value is your own. You have this strange notion that people's responses to actions aren't at all influenced by the people who make or take those actions, seemingly to distance yourself from liability. If people DC on screech, how is that not a factual event? If you have witnessed multiple people DC on screech multiple times across different matches, how can you not understand there is a real chance that the Nurse pick is to blame? The same didn't happen at the same rate with any other Killer pick, so why when Nurse was the Killer, it is comparatively so common? Someone DCs when I hard tunnel off hook, makes sense as being Killer independent. Someone DCs on facecamping as an instadown Killer on first hook, makes sense as being Killer independent. Someone DCs on the first identifying marker of one Killer, it could only be connection issues (any DC first minute or so) or the Killer selection itself to blame for the root cause. If people are so disincentivized to play the game they 'agreed to play the game as presented' in one particular instance, that they are willing to soak escalating DC penalties to not deal with, how is that one particular instance not the root cause?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237819#Comment_3237819
I don't believe it is outside the scope of the argument since it would be deterministic of what type of matches each of us could have witnessed. If I only played 3 hours there is a real chance of never seeing a hatch escape. If I played 3000 hours that likelihood is far smaller to non-existent. Similarly for easy and hard matches for either side. Less time played would lead to less likelihood of finding what made a match a free win or an impossibility (and everywhere in-between), and as such quite relevant to someone's perceptions of the game. I can't honestly say I've never had a free win/auto-loss (again as both sides) because I have played enough matches.
You also ignored 3 paragraphs containing ~11 sentences in favor of 1 sentence you took issue with, but if the 'don't agree' was applied to the rest of that, then fair enough.
Otz also stated in his video about changes for Killers that Nurse is not over powered. As well, people DC for many reasons that have nothing to with Nurse, and if you want to use ancedotal evidence, more often than they do on Nurse according to my experience and that of other people that have commented on multiple threads. The person who is not considering the feelings of other people is the DCer. If you do not have enough consideration for other people to not DC you are a terrible player in a team based role.
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Your MMR is lower on Killers you haven't played. Each Killer MMR is separate. Your MMR is higher than a brand new player but BHVR has already stated that your MMR on a new Killer is lower than that of your best Killer. It's Survivor where you have a shared MMR no matter which survivor you play.
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@CoDismylife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3239514#Comment_3239514
Where you got 95% from? That's a number you introduced and not me. I said "some" and not "most"
The most recent kill rate data. Nurse has the worst Kill rate of all Killers at low MMR with the Kill rate rising as MMR increases. However, at the top 5% of MMR, she doesn't even place in the top 5 kill rates. So if she's not an outlier for kill rates at, as the bare minimum, over 95% of the range of MMR where is she an issue? The top 1%? 0.1%? 0.01%?
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3239554#Comment_3239554
It happens alot especially when the sarcasm is in text. They probably would go up because they survivors wouldn't be in a corner for 4 hrs trying to heal lol.
My problem with x perk is a killer perk is normally because it's been used wrong not the perk itself really so it's like saying survivors aren't bad it's the perk that's bad kind of thing.
The perk is good; it's just mis-used a lot. I use it at times with a We'll Make It and Botany Knowledge build. I heal the unhooked person super quickly and then myself if injured. I'm just being sarcastic when I refer to it as a Killer perk as so many people misuse it so it gets a negative value for them.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3239540#Comment_3239540
I know what your getting at just been sarcastic. It's not a killer perk though it's a survivor perk they is frequently misused and is actually pretty bad now just bring CoH.
Calling something a killer perk because survivors don't use it right is just dumb to me.
That's okay; we just missed each other's sarcasm. While self care can be strong when used correctly I think solo queue survival rates would go up a bit if it didn't exist. It's mainly on weekends but, as another example from a different match today, I saw two survivors self caring against Sloppy while standing literally next to each other.
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@BougieBlackChick said:
Also no, I didn’t do any conspecious actions after. I was literally unhooked, running and he followed mE and downed me .
It has to be a bug then. Unless you got locker grabbed or something similar it should have worked.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/351894/good-example-of-why-self-care-is-a-killer-perk
Killers can equip self care now?
I'm unsure if you actually read my post or just the title but if you can explain how self caring without Botany Knowledge against Sloppy Butcher especially during a Chain Hunt benefits the survivors I'm all ears.
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@CoDismylife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3239145#Comment_3239145
Because some nurse players suck ass at the game.
Over 95% of the players? Balancing should not be done due to a small fraction of the playerbase.
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Solo queue needs to double its DC penalties.
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There is no issue with OTR so hopefully never.
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@jajay119 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3238676#Comment_3238676
Tell me you didn't read any further posts, without telling me you didn't read any further posts.
But he's correct. The Nurse player is not selfish; the DCers are.
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@Lobos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3239175#Comment_3239175
I agree with a lot of what you're saying but even players with a lot of experience on both sides all say the same thing. That Nurse is broken and they prefer not to use her with the strongest possible perks and add-ons because it's far too easy to absolutely crush average players in pub games once you learn how to play her and it feels disgusting and unfair.
The only people defending Nurse not being broken are the killer players that use her a lot because they can abuse her power for easy win streaks against average survivor teams and don't want to lose that dominance factor.
I agree that SWFs are also a big problem. Icons on portraits won't be enough to put solos on par with SWF comms though. Icons can't tell you the killer's location and where they are going. Icons can't tell you what gen is at what percent complete and if it's safe to go finish that gen or not. Icons can't call out the killer's perks and habits that they are showing.
It's all kind of a lose/lose situation with solo queue unless they add voice chat. Voice chat wouldn't really help either because then people will still rage and say the most vile things to each other to harass players even more than they already do right now.
That's probably why they have been dragging their feet on fixing the solo issue. They just don't know how to buff it to SWF comms level without making a bunch of perks basekit.
I see what you're saying but I don't think changes should be made based on the very top if people other than the very top have issues. I'm defending her not because I play her a lot, I play Artist or Dredge most of the time when I play Killer but I solo queue a little bit more than I play Killer, but because if her kill rates are not crazy for over 95% of the MMR then the problem lies at the very top.
To further clarify my position, I don't care if they make changes but feel the changes should also be fair to the majority of Nurse players. As an example, Nurse has M1 attacks since she's so slow normally and needs to blink to attack. Okay, if her blink attack becomes an M2 then also suggest buffing her walking speed to 100%. She's still really slow and has to work for that M1 but she has a chance to M1 without blinking.
What I normally see in the threads is hyperbole and no nuanced discussion. It's just nerf! without considering why it exists or exaggeration. As an example, for counterplay, if on the second story of a map and the Nurse winds up her blink and you charge her she can either shoot past you or blink downstairs. I know roughly how far the Nurse will blink from listening to her and roughly will blink based on my distance from me to the Nurse. That's counterplay. Giving an opinion on whether there is sufficient counterplay is different than just saying there's no counterplay when there is.
For Nurse, I don't think she's overpowered. I think she's gimmicky because she has unique chase mechanics that people only learn to counter by playing her or playing against her. Since her chase mechanics are unique a lot of the learning how to chase against the rest of the roster doesn't apply so people suffer from a lack of experience in how to counter her.
For SWFs, in my opinion, a really good SWF deserves to win a lot. As you said, there are huge issues in bringing solos close to the SWF level. If you buff solos in a way that benefits SWF it's unfair to Killers. If you just buff Killers to match the best SWFs then solos suffer.
For the current moment though I don't want BHVR to spend time changing Nurse. I want BHVR to spend their resources on fixing solo queue to be closer to SWFs. That affects a lot more players and would have a far more positive effect than making changes to Nurse. Afterwards, then BHVR can see where the chips fall and what needs to be changed after on either role or on specific Killers.
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3239145#Comment_3239145
Idk what to tell you, but I've played her. I'm far from great at her, but it was good enough to beat most lobbies I went up against, just took me a while to get that muscle memory down. And I have seen plenty of others play her that were much better than me - people like Scorpionz or ScottJund - that consistently obliterated their opponents without even bringing Perks.
The only times I didn't get an immediate hit after blinking were when I was using the blinks for map pressure or made a wrong call during chases. Again, that was me, as the player, screwing up and NOT a weakness of the character I played.
As for the Killrates, let's just say I am not surprised that you, as someone that defends Nurse as balanced, would bring them up thinking these proved anything. She has been dominating the bottom of those for half a decade now, yet it is still common knowledge that she is the strongest character in the game by a large margin.
I beat over 50% of lobbies on most Killers; I just wiped groups yesterday as Clown on bad maps for Clown such as the Game. That means nothing except now that I'm over 2,000 hours of gametime I have more experience than the median.
Nurse has counterable game mechanics; for instance, charging her after she's wound up her teleport on the second story of a map but counters to Nurse are more difficult for the average person since she has very unique chase mechanics. And of course I brought up the kill rates; they're the only solid piece of evidence anyone had.
I'd argue Blight is stronger once the Blight's skill ceiling is reached versus Nurse but that's just an opinion. Nurse being strong doesn't mean unbalanced if, for the majority, she's not overperforming all the other Killers.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
I find a lot of solo random team mates don't seem to understand the concept of taking a hook state being a strong strategy to avoid your team mate on death hook going down.
I get it though, I used to think it was a good thing that the killer never even hooked me and if everyone escapes it sure is. But other than hard tunnelling sometimes you obviously need to take a hook
Yeah, the whole problem with the whole 'I'm not taking a hook state' means that, in the long term, you will die more often from that strategy then you will escape. It doesn't matter if you have 0 hook states or 2 hook states at the end of the game; if the gens didn't get done because the Killer tunneled someone out early you still die on the next hook.
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@Lobos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3239117#Comment_3239117
Good job using the stats the Devs said "Don't use these for arguments because they don't tell the whole story." I've personally seen the same Nurse prestige 82 twice that was afk the entire time both games until the gens were done and then they opened the gate and went afk again until the EGC ran out. They probably did that every game for days!
People are intentionally messing with her stats so she doesn't get nerfed.
And again with more of your stats. I never said normal SWFs couldn't escape a lot. You asked why Otz and Dowsey's hardcore survivor SWF wasn't a normal swf and I gave you an answer. Not very many teams have that much combined time in the game or they would be in tournaments and more well known.
But if people want to balance Nurse around the top 1% or less of her players why can't we balance survivors around the same benchmarks?
That's why I'm against nerfs (not to be confused with tweaking and other minor changes) to Nurse and SWFs and call for buffs to solos. The 'god tier Nurse' is not typical but a very rare exception. Teams of survivors like the Hardcore Survivor team are an exception. Neither of them should be used for balancing purposes.
What should be used is how each side actually plays out in the majority of instances. Nurse doesn't need changes; if she did then her kill rates wouldn't be so normal for so much of the MMR. SWFs don't need changes; with the exception of groups like Hens or the hardcore survivor teams the escape rates are not crazy good. Solo does have a discrepancy between solos and SWFs so it needs buffs.
If we're going to call for changes based on the very top level for Nurse why can't we say the same for survivor? If we did that, both Nurse and survivors would get nerfed and solo shouldnt get buffs. That would make the game unplayable for a large portion of the player base and would only work if the game were a spectator sport meant to be played by the very best in the field. It's not; it's meant to be a game where everyone participates and should consider everyone.
Nerfing Nurse or survivors due to the top tier SWFs would not be fair to the vast majority of players. But if people are going to call for nerfs due to the top 1% or less of players in that role it should apply across the board. Doing so, however, would be unfair to 99% of the playerbase.
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3238453#Comment_3238453
The entirety of counterplay that exists against Nurse is "hope she screws up and blinks in the wrong direction". You have no influence over that as the Survivor, it is entirely on the Nurse whether she gets a hit or not. That is not counterplay, that is the Killer making a mistake. You also don't call a succesfull mindgame on a Trapper counterplay to his character now, do you?
Add to that one of the best map pressure tools in the entire game and you got a combo that should simply not exist.
I find it amazing that some still argue in defence of Nurse. Her being overpowered is like the most widely accepted fact in this community, yet here we are.
Play Nurse then and learn the counterplay and where she's weak. There is counterplay. If there were no counterplay then why do Nurse players still lose? Her kill rates are not out of line with other Killers and a bunch of people in an echo chamber saying there's no counterplay does not constitute a fact. Actual data is a fact; not repeating an opinion.
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@Nihlus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3238854#Comment_3238854
Pips are pointless and have been for a while now. You signed up for the 'team' side of the game without a team. That means you are working with random people. I do not complain when I have a teammate DC on me. I understand. Really, it sounds like you're being just as selfish. They say "I'm not having fun" and leave, and your argument is "what about me?!" It's just as selfish and transparent.
That's an extremely selfish viewpoint you're arguing for. If you queue up you have an implied agreement to play the game with the other four people you get queued with. Your right to enjoy the game is not greater than any of the other people but the same. DCing is not part of the game as intended.
Sorry, it's not all about you. Even if you don't know them you should respect other people. My argument is about all the other people; your argument is about you and only you. That's what makes your viewpoint selfish and, if you DC, a bad player in a team based role.
Edit: 2 million BP is a considerable amount of BP. That's what pips are good for.
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@Nihlus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233184#Comment_3233184
Yeah. How dare you selfishly want to have fun in a game you bought and paid for? For shame! You should be the killer's punching bag and just shut up so they can have fun burning you with that magnifying glass!
The OP is spot on. There is a reason that the incentive bonus is nearly always +100% survivor and it's because people don't want to put up with the crap. This attitude of "shut up and be my cannon fodder" is just going to drive people out of the game.
How dare survivors log in and expect their teammates to try so they don't depip and are actually able to play? They should realize their fun is completely subordinate to the DCer!
Fixed it for you
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@tippy2k2 said:
No
Does this mean there are games I'm going to lose that I could have won if I tunneled? Probably. Do I care? Nope.
100% this
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3238672#Comment_3238672
If this was the first time someone asked, I would have gladly posted my gameplay, which I did.
I have no desire to post it again, and be ridiculed and lied to like before.
There are plenty of videos out there showcasing how strong she is. Watch those.
I have seen videos of strong nurses. I have also seen strong SWFs beat strong nurses. I don't see the issues you see so that's why I was asking about your nurses to see what the difference is but if you no longer have the gameplay that's fine.
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3238602#Comment_3238602
LOL! I already have, in a few threads exactly like this. I posted a nurse game, and one of the nurse defenders said it was embarrassing gameplay, despite it being a 5 gen 4k with the only missed blink attacks in the game (2) being from exhaustion perks. Another nurse defender pretends he can't find the games I timestamped and directly posted in threads he was in. Another nurse defender (two of them are in this very thread) admits my gameplay shows I know what I am talking about, but then goes on to ask for other people's gameplay like I have any control over that.
Not that a single player's gameplay is all that important, but I have already posted in these threads, naively, in an attempt to show these players who don't have much experience/knowledge in the game how the game really is. In response I was mocked and lied to. So, yeah, not doing that again.
So, yeah, I had no problem posting gameplay. Proved I am a top player. Curious why not a single person defending nurse (literally not even one single person) will post their own gameplay, when there are SO MANY videos of people saying nurse is OP.
I have posted my gameplay but my gameplay is not at question here. I'm not a top MMR player and one person proves nothing. I am, however, interested in seeing what the Nurses you face look like if you still have the links to the games you recorded.
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I stockpile map offerings for maps I'm good at and I play them a lot as soon as I have 2/5 pips at Iri. While I might only escape a little bit more I depip less as it's harder to down someone on the Game, for example, than in the very ironically named Shelter Woods.
If depipping were removed as it should be I wouldn't play map offerings except for a Tome Challenge (eg fall from a great height x times; gl with that on Lery's as opposed to Dead Dawg) but, since there is depipping, I find map offerings remove a lot of the frustration for me at Iri grades.
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@Gamall said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3238515#Comment_3238515
I mean, if they go down instantly they are probably newer players and you would still lose the game whether they suicide on hook or not
That is true but at least they would have tried. I don't get upset at people for not playing well; I get upset at people for quitting. Everyone has to start somewhere but you shouldn't quit if other people are relying on you.
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@Omans said:
It is just so sad that the same old nurse defenders are in every single thread trying so hard to convince people a fact isn't true.
She is the strongest killer in the game, and gives the player who uses her too much of an advantage. That's not even in question. What these threads should be about is how she should be dealt with. Should it be slight number changes, an addon pass, an entire rework, or delete the character and watch as the people in this thread lose their entire identity, like a poster with 2000 posts desperately trying to defend nurse in every single post.
And now they are emboldened by the new mmr stats. "SEE! THAT IS PROOF SHE IS FINE!" despite being told again and again, even by the devs themselves that those stats need to be taken with a giant grain of salt. Nope, that is definitive proof she is fine to them, and everyone who disagrees should learn to play.
I just wish these nurse defenders would post their own gameplay. They won't, of course, because then everyone will be able to explain to them that they aren't very good and that‘s why they think nurse is fine. But one can hope...
Can you post your gameplay with these god tier Nurses?
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@Krazzik said:
This thread reeks of desperation. Yikes.
The OP reminds me of junior high and high school.
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@Mister_xD said:
Can we please stop pretending like failed RNG checks or fuckups from the killer were counterplay to their character?
Can we please stop pretending there isn't counterplay to Nurse?
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3238008#Comment_3238008
People complain about all the killers 😂 legion, freddy etc. You name the killer I'm sure iv had messages about them haha
I believe it but for some reason the level of entitlement and lack of self awareness still continues to surprise me. If you're a 'trash killer' but still won why don't people like that realize what they're saying about their skill as a survivor? Especially since you were using an outdated Killer that's weaker than the median Killer.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4KP9IWTB3AKJ/20221021-170249.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/1I9SS42KXHHC/20221021-170204.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4IR8GWBBPJDK/20221021-170106.jpg
^ first game as killer ^ carried this duo swf as survivor (doing the longer chases and even more gens) previously then this when they lose when I play killer. (More context, I tunneled a bill as he ran at me with OTR getting in my way trying to use ot offensively)
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9V1K57538YEJ/20221021-170406.jpg
^ Then this one, bit more fun message but mad I meme'd with a survivor because they rage quit and everyone was giving up.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CFJN77FABFIC/20221021-174109.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/73UZB87DCDTI/20221021-174230.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/E4L4HHLDN0IY/20221021-174329.jpg
^ him and someone else quick switched at the end so that's why I assumed swf. Either way not allowed to play doctor even though i never even used my shock to antiloop on him...
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/MCPFID7DRDOK/20221021-174602.jpg
^lost 3 gens in under 60seconds of the game starting, was Ghostface so I did some slugging and marking (could have 4man slugged but never did, had 1 on hook and 2 down with 4th in sight but just picked up the 3rd)
I dunno I just thought I'd share some funny messages I got today, could probably do this often as it's so common for but just the fact I can get a gg as survivor but play killer which I rarely do and boom hate mail.
I'm assuming other get this?
They're seriously complaining about Doctor?
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I still want the Woodchipper!
@TheSubstitute said:
I was inspired for this post by another thread and thinking of all the safe pallets in Lery's, Gideon, etc and this idea hit me.
May I present to you...
THE WOODCHIPPER
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/XQ9NF7JTEN66/befunky-2022-6-4-17-8-27.jpg
This 100 gram (3.52 ounces) furry ball of death would ignore any pallets and, without the aid of pallets, easily catch up to survivors and beat the survivors to death with his tiny sword. S Tier from that alone.
For the Woodchipper's active power perhaps they could have the leaping power of their cousin, the Killer Rabbit!
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/1U1LA2SKD3CR/rabbitattack.jpg
Or, even better yet, bundle the two together and call their chapter The Revenge Of The Rodents!
Feel free to use my pure genius idea BHVR; I won't mind. And you're welcome.
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@Lima24927 said:
15% is a lie, when im in swf, and we arent even pros, my escape rate is around 60 - 70%, solo Q its about 20%
15% would not be a lie. What would be happening is that your SWF raises your MMR and when you go back into solo queue you can't handle the same difficulty you could in SWF. Your teammates also affect your chances to escape and your solo queue randoms aren't as good as your SWF teammates.
Edit: Just to further clarify, high MMRs probably have a lot more SWFs than solos. The solos that are at that level are amazing enough at survivor that they can compete at a level most require a SWF to compete in.
What would show more of the advantages of SWF wouldn't be escape rate differentials in my opinion but rather the population distribution of SWFs versus solos at each MMR level.
It still wouldn't change balancing because Killers can still face SWFs and Killers can't be nerfed to benefit solos. What it would do is reinforce that solos need information buffs to bring them closer to SWF level.
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@Nos37 said:
Why aim for 60% kill rate if SWF is getting 4 men out 80% of the time while solo q is lucky if 1 person gets hatch 80% of the time??
They cancel each other out and keep the kill rate near 60%, sure, but it's not fair for killers or solo q
My solo queue escape rate is roughly 45 to 50%. While I do sympathize with how frustrating solo queue can be any MMR, at high MMR, which I'm not but I'm assuming the good 4 man SWFs are, the last figure we got was a 15% differential. That's the most extreme case.
15% is a huge differential but it's not as bad as what you're suggesting.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237233#Comment_3237233
Then its a cannibal or any other insta down killer
It is harder but possible to save from a Bubba. I have had 4Es against camping Bubbas before. Don't complain about a proven tactic to get a 3E or 4E against a camping Killer; complain that the skill floor to counter camping is a lot higher than the skill floor to actually camp. That's a more accurate statement.
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@jajay119 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233184#Comment_3233184
OK, but you're selfish if you play her too, so....
False. Nurse is part of the game as intended. If you were in a custom match and somebody agreed they would not play a specific Killer and then switched to that specific Killer then that would be selfish. Playing Nurse is no more selfish than bringing BNP, a med kit, or a perk that the Killer you're about to face dislikes. As in not at all. When you hit ready you agree to play the game as intended and Nurse is part of the game as intended. It's supremely entitled to say that a random person can't play how they want because you don't like it. It's literally part of the game as intended.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237366#Comment_3237366
"No factual indicators Nurse is an issue"
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/W5HQNEO83C7A/certainkillers.png
Red emphasis mine. If you think they are referring to someone else I would love to hear how I am misunderstanding that it actually made Bubba too powerful in combination with Starstruck.
Also I don't like populist arguments (if that is the correct term), but when I am having someone who doesn't seem to understand what everyone else takes the understanding of for granted, I guess I have to show that everyone else knows it is a problem. Or at the very least there is some issue that needs changing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfi1U4lP8s - OhTofu's The Nurse Problem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QIW6juxPwQ - SupaAlf's This is the Real Problem with Nurse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0KzlOCFGmk - not Otzdarva's The ACTUAL reason Nurse is OP...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLZK17GU7_A - Choy's Is Nurse's strength ruining Dead by Daylight?
As to the second part, one thing partially at fault is the branding of the game only half commits to the idea of Survivors being a team. If I recall correctly some of the original branding was something to the effect of "Survive together, or don't". Heck, the very existence of Yun-Jin encourages a certain level of screwing over your 'team-mates' for your own benefit (thank you the perk Self-Preservation, you take the hit so I can hide). While I agree that the game should be based on proper teamwork, even the game can't commit to that same standard. Also a common community sentiment of a DC against a Nurse is a joking 'wow gigachad' or 'they had the stones to do something I couldn't'. Most Survivors I run across don't blame their prospective teammate for a DC on the first screech, but they do blame them for sticking around for a bit then quitting mid way through.
You still haven't proven anything. Awakened Awareness was changed because the synergy with Nurse and Blight combined with Starstruck would have been too strong in survivors that stuck around in the TR instead of doing the sensible thing and getting away until Exposed run out. Thus, any potential issues never happened. If it didn't happen, it didn't become an issue.
All you're trying to argue is populist arguments with no factual basis. Why can't I point to the survivors then with the huge escape streaks of 100+ escapes and say survivor is too strong? It's not but it's the same tyoe of argument you're making instead of questioning why are there Killers with huge win streaks and SWFs with huge win streaks and could this possibly just mean the best players win a lot?
The stats as shown do not show an issue with Nurse for at least 95% of MMR and BHVR should not do balance changes for a tiny fraction of a playerbase when a larger amount of players would be negatively affected. BHVR, who would know the best if there is an issue, does not feel changing Nurse is a priority which implies they don't see an issue.
And, yes, I do blame the DCers and the ones who DC as soon as they hear a screech are the worst of the lot. Instead of a game that could have been winnable or at least give a safety pip or single pip they have now just shifted the odds solely to the Killer with their selfishness.
Pipping up to Iri One as solo queue survivor is annoying and harder to do than Killer. It's even worse if the DCers are the cause of a depip.
The Nurse player is not at fault for ruining a game because of a DCer. BHVR is not at fault. The DCer is at fault and is the problem. If they want to DC because they don't like a specific Killer they shouldn't be playing games where people rely on them. They are bad players in team based roles. Most of the Survivors I've talked to think DCers are selfish and immature. That doesn't prove anything and neither does your statement. What does prove something is that the DCer has an implied agreement to play the game as presented and they ruined the game for four other people by not following through not due to an understandable reason such as a RL issue but because they didn't feel like it. As this would be done with a disregard for the other players that definitely meets the definition of selfish.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236569#Comment_3236569
You lack any source or statistic for Nurse being enjoyable either, so we are both only speaking to our understanding of the game and humanity. This video from Choy is the closest I can come to providing evidence for my argument. As far as no previous agreement that is your willingness to ignore the 'honor among thieves' concept of 'even I won't go that far unless I got a tome/daily'. Nearly everyone is kind in endgame chat to me when I say I played Nurse due to either of those things. Although I also purposely ignore people off hook for the rescuer and beeline past them due to the sheer simplicity in using Nurse without a controller if someone has 5+games on her. I can also run mostly BP perks (Distressing, Beast of Prey and/or Thrill of the Hunt, Lethal and/or BBQ) and still get 12 hooks purposely only going after rescuers/people not hooked recently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASrkxft2Vfs
A Ghostie chasing is a bad Ghostie in general. They might be a good Killer in general, but preventing the chase is Ghostie's strong suit. If you let them reach the pallet on the Game you misplayed your approach. The tactic for Ghostie is to 99 the stalk around the corner until they run off, and take a 50/50 of waiting for them to go back on the gen or to go for someone else. Going for someone else is the better play against good Survs, waiting is better against bad (in general).
Also the hatred towards Nurse is quite evident on nearly every community (these forums, reddit, etc.) so they are speaking and yelling their displeasure only to fall on deaf ears. The unheard lash out when ignored. That is why I understand what would drive someone to the events of the video linked. Again not condoning or endorsing, just having enough basic human empathy to understand.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236852#Comment_3236852
People can bring strong things, but that is only relative to what their opposition brought. If the Surv brought Stakeout against a Stealth Killer, they lose a large percentage of the value, same with healing against Plague, and the will to ever play the game again against Starstruck Nurse.
If you legitimately think there are no easy wins then I would have to assume you have less than 100 hours, because I have had my fair share of no effort wins, dang near impossible matches, and everything in-between.
Killer bans I think would be fine at a 20% ratio. No one has to play the most busted/annoying Killer every match back to back. Typically people against that type of ban are one tricks for whatever flavor of the month is most overpowered at the moment in that particular game. I have fun playing Trapper, Wraith, Nurse, Myers, Huntress, Bubba, Pig, Clown, Spirit, Legion, Ghostie(my current fave), Demo, Deathslinger, Blight, Nemmy, Onion Ring, Dredge, and Weskie. (Billy only isn't on that list due to the defunding of the space program, so I am boycotting using him until his rocketship is returned.) There is a massive variety of Killer experiences, and just because 5 Killers (not players) might be banned by one player, doesn't make every other Killer unplayable. It would only impact matchmaking times, and that would be a net positive for people who actually want to play the game with variety.
The map bans is more to give Killers something with the Killer ban, and also a bad band-aid for fixing maps. Both ban systems are meant to also serve as a form of feedback for the devs, that if something is banned at a disproportionately high rate, it probably needs to be altered in some manner. I would also have a variety ban that doesn't count toward these numbers, and only bans the most recent Killer/map (up to the 5 bans for the 5 most recent if you wanted the variety ban for all 5 slots).
The only part that's accurate is that there are no sources or statistics and speaking to forum hate as a gauge is a very poor indicator of anything. Everything is complained about on a forum and there are no factual indicators Nurse is an issue. I like Nurse, other people have said they like Nurse and people are multiple times more likely to say something negative than positive.
People that are being empathetic don't DC on their teammates. If they dislike Nurse that much they can play Killer or a single player game as they're not well suited to play in a team role. Their temperament makes them bad players for a team role. They don’t like facing Nurse, whatever. Their teammates don't like going into a 3v1 when it should be a 4v1. The difference is that nobody made an agreement with the DCer they wouldn't play part of the game but there was an implied agreement among the survivors they would try to win the game.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236960#Comment_3236960
Yes, do gens and maybe 1 survivor can escape
@hiken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236960#Comment_3236960
and let survivors die on hook amazing response. really amazing.
How is hook trading and doing gens not the correct response to a 'down one then camp' Killer if you want a 3E or 4E? What kills survivors in that scenario is the hiding in bushes by the hook or the unhooking too soon.
Go do gens, when a full hook stage is almost expended hook trade, repeat, have 3 to 4 survivors make it through the exit gate. If a Killer is staying by the hook, you punish them by doing gens.
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@Norhc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235912#Comment_3235912
She's been nerfed multiple times... six years ago. Everyone that is not a complete potato at the game always noticed that this never was close to be enough.
Aren't the potatoes the players being slaughtered by Nurses and not the ones who can can do a chase against Nurse?