TheSubstitute
TheSubstitute
About
- Username
- TheSubstitute
- Joined
- Visits
- 6,661
- Last Active
Comments
-
Even if the game were perfectly balanced people would complain. DH is still strong and the counterplay to it is not fun for the Killer so it's a natural target. Using it is fun for the Survivor though which is why it's so defended. I don't believe that the fun of the other side is an overriding factor for balance though. The crossmap snipes and downs I get on Artist with aura reading perks probably aren't fun for the target but they're definitely fun for me as a comparison
The real test as to if it's unbalanced or not is if equipping DH over Sprint Burst or Lithe gives a statistically significant improvement in escape rates. Old DH did that beyond a doubt which is why it was rightfully nerfed. I don't think current DH does.
So, unless data is released that shows DH is significantly better than SB or Lithe (which is not the impression I get) I'm straight in the DH is fine category.
-
A visual representation of the sweatiness of your build
-
@VideoGameMage said:
I heard it takes forever to genuinely drop your mmr once you hit the soft cap though.
That depends on how high you are over 1600. Since you can still be matched with an elite squad at 1400 you'd have to drop it even further if you want to be sure. Depending on where you are it could be dozens of losses to get below 1400
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3334766#Comment_3334766
No, they didn't say 'it's a viable way to secure kills'. They said 'it's a valid strategy', or 'it's the only way to win'. It wouldn't make sense for them to say 'it's a viable way to secure kills', because everyone that complains about these tactics -knows- they're viable strategies. That's part of why they were complaining.
And while no, they didn't say they wanted them to be the most efficient tactics available, if anyone brought up the concept of nerfing those tactics, there would be more than enough pushback, ranging from 'it's just the killer doing their job' to 'they tried a single thing 6 years ago and that didn't work so no'.
Even in this thread there's a couple of people that are stating that tunnelling and camping should not be nerfed. The result is that the game is now balanced around camping and tunnelling being in the game. Killers aren't having fun. Survivors aren't having fun. But at least camping and tunnelling are still around.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3334785#Comment_3334785
We at least agree on wanting the same end goals though.
Amen to that!
I don't know who this 'they' is either. I play Killer half the time and I've posted multiple times I would like to see current DS basekit with the perk being 5 second stun on both hooks with the same deactivation conditions followed by Killers getting Ruin buffed to 200% with no hex (but deactivates on death), possibly Pop being restored to its former glory with a buffed Dying Light basekit effect for gen slowdown. That and/or chase buffs for Killers. That seems like both an incentive and disincentive to tunnel for me.
I've also argued that the MMR cap is too low to need to tunnel and camp and you can have a good win rate without it but it happens since you will lose games by not doing it. Other people have agreed with me and others have disagreed so it seems more like there's a split in opinions.
Can you qualify whom you are referring to by 'they'? If not, your arguments lose impact since they sound biased.
-
As soon as I know someone has DH, I often quickly move my mouse up to fake an attack. The DH user usually hits it and I swing once the animation is over; if they don't activate DH I just quick hit them. Quite often you avoid their DH that way; using it to ensure they make it past a pallet, etc notwithstanding.
-
I think the devs do a pretty good job. There are issues but nobody's perfect and the game is pretty enjoyable and made a bunch of really good changes in the last year.
-
The only way I did the Outbreak Breakout acheivement without going insane was PE , BnP, Commodious to break the 3 gen in the lobby at the beginning after getting tired of being the only one working on the gen about 80% of the time. It's a 3 gen buster perk for when the Killer is setting up a tight 3 gen. It's niche but not useless; it does its job well and with certain map layouts if you don't bust the 3 gen at the beginning you have no chance of escaping without the Killer making major mistakes.
-
I'm surprised NTH didn't make Distortion meta for solo queue. You can't hide and tap a rapidly regressing gen if the Killer sees your aura.
There's no difference, though, between a Distortion user or non-Distortion user who won't try to take aggro for their teammates while they have hook states to spare. There's a reason why I see a lot of 4Ks when you have three survivors on death hook and one completely unhooked survivor who continues to avoid the Killer.
-
You can get value out of it combined with LP on Artist. Otherwise, the duration is too short. It might be okay on Dredge, Sadako and maybe on Freddy since they can all teleport and it goes off at random times which can give a surprise factor.
Depending on how many aura reading perks you want in your build there are better options though. If I'm going to run two or three aura reading perks it's an option but otherwise there are more reliable and effective options. Even at two to three aura reading perks though the number of Killers that can effectively use that information is low
-
They need to give Victor skins. I would completely get this as a skin for Victor. I even have a picture of how Victor would look attacking two Vittorio clones in era appropriate clothing.
Same jump arc as Victor too. It'd even allow for a new stun perk for survivors 'Holy Hand Grenade'.
-
Would you have preferred the Erupting Call of Overcharge that leaves Nowhere to Hide?
Anyway, I hear Distortion and stealth are options. On an even playing field, all Killers eventually have to catch survivors or the game is broken. The point of the match is not to outchase the Killer; it's to get the gens done and get out before the Killer kills you. If you waste the Killer's time because the Killer can't find you every second of wasted time there is just as valuable as wasting the Killer's time in chase. Just please just do gens if the Killer isn't actively looking for you.
There's another option available and that's to play Blight, learn Blight's mechanics, and apply that to playing survivor. All my Nurses seem to have disappeared recently and have been replaced by Blights so I have to play more Blight now as I suck against Blight and I don't understand Blight's mechanics as much as I understand Nurse's (and, as such, did much better against Nurse than Blight).
Or, if you just want the dopamine rush from being angry, just write posts and vent on the forums instead of trying something to improve. It's up to you.
-
That sucks. We don't need basekit Unbreakable and finishing moris; we just need a faster bleedout button for when only one survivor is left standing.
-
That sucks but I'd try to do gens; I had one of my worst games in the old Eyrie of Crows with a very poor matchmaking result between me and a brand new Huntress. One survivor just switched lockers after the other two survivors died and it took me 40 minutes to get the last gen done and open a gate (and the other survivor who was locker hopping unfortunately got out as well).
If I hadn't escaped because the Killer had been able to down me like what happens in every other game where MMR doesn't completely drop the ball I could have finished two more enjoyable games in that time period. If I had tried to hide as well I would have spent 40 minutes not gaining BP, being incredibly bored and not having anything productive done. It was still tedious but hiding would have made the game even worse.
So, in my opinion, just do gens. It's the fault of the hiding survivor the game is in that situation; not the Killer. If you just hide you're making the game less enjoyable for yourself so salvage what you can in terms of BP, move on to a more enjoyable game and hope the Killer finds the hiding survivor.
-
Seriously, map offerings. Use them. It doesn't have to be for extremely painful maps; just maps you're good at. As an example, I avoid Ormond like the plague and play Midwich quite often simply because I don't do well in Ormond but do very well in Midwich although it's ostensibly Killer sided.
At two or three pips into an Iri grade the offerings come out until I hit the next grade. The requirements for pipping up at Iri make you compete with your teammates and all of the following can make you depip:
(a) a teammate ragequits
(b) The Killer tunnels or camps you
(c) The Killer chases you all game
(d) The Killer doesn't chase you enough
(e) The Killer's afk
(f) The Killer can't land a hit on anyone so no chances for altruism
Etc. You can literally complete gens and walk out without taking a hit and depip. Even if you don't like them because of what you experienced as a Killer play them at Iri ranks as a solo. There is nothing in this game more frustrating than making it to 4 pips in at Iri as survivor and losing them all (and I played M1 Killers for my Killer games after the Mikaela Reid release while CoH and DH was at its most powerful). Until BHVR gets rid of depipping, which they should because so much can happen that's 100% out of your control, play them at Iri. Your blood pressure will thank you.
-
@Murgleïs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329869#Comment_3329869
You are disgusting.
I'll dedicate a Garden of Joy offering tonight to you.
-
Map offerings once you hit Iri. Map offerings. The bad taste in your mouth doesn't matter as much as keeping your sanity.
-
@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329708#Comment_3329708
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329714#Comment_3329714
Gonna be brutally honest I didn't look at the survs builds properly. I just saw there was no: windows, lithe or DH and figured the builds couldn't be that bad. My mistake, that team deserved to be bled out. I also have an irrational hatred of franklins.
Yeah, there was literally nothing to do but bleed them out. That's why it was so boring. Also, if I see three TTVs in a lobby with three toolboxes and one medkit I think switching a perk for Franklin's is definitely the right call.
-
@th3syst3m said:
Yeah I've noticed I've been going against a lot of Artists lately. I also find it extremely boring. They just slug me to counter my super fun boil over build and try and snipe my team when they pick me up.
That's hilarious; you get an upvote
-
I don't care; it's a video game. If I have fun I win.
-
Eruption has two major issues in my opinion:
(a) It removes a player's ability to play for a significant amount of time. That is not healthy game design
(b) It disproportionately affects one group more than the other (solos vs swf). That makes it frustrating for the group that's affected worse and makes it harder to determine if balancing is required.
Reworking it into a blocked gen effect instead of giving the incapacitated status would still leave the perk strong, not have players standing around for extended periods of time, and smooth out how it affects people allowing for better data. That sounds good to me.
In regards to the what about DH argument , well, first it is possible for there to be more than one unconnected issue in the game and, two, I don't think DH is broken. Honestly, I think it's okay albeit it can feel frustrating to face.
If a Killer approaches a survivor with SB, BL, and Lithe the extra distance can prevent a hit. That's less frustrating for the Killer because the Killer wasn't close and now has to spend extra time finding another survivor. The survivor with DH just switches when that happens to mid-chase. That feels more frustrating because the Killer feels like they won the chase and got robbed but they hadn't won the chase yet.
The real test as to whether or not DH is still out of balance is if DH users escape significantly more than SB users. They might, they might not, but right now the only people who know aren't telling.
The real difference between the two is that although we don't know if DH is that much better than it's closest equivalent, SB, it seems pretty apparent Eruption is much better against solos than swf and is much more effective than the other gen defense perks. That calls for a rework to make it healthier.
-
@AJStyIez said:
In terms of kit design, the Knight is by far the worst in DBD history (only other valid answer is OG Legion). He highlights the most boring aspects of the game for both roles simultaneously and nothing changed in terms of the community's perception of him. Like I said on ScottJund's video last night he's nothing more than a pseudo-RTS gimmick for people that wanna feel clever with the guards. There's nothing clever or skillful about his kit though, you literally just drop a guard down one lane and pinch the other with the Knight or you just hold W which a 10 year old can also do. Both players hold W until the Survivor reaches a deadzone or a safe corner tile where they still get hit no matter what. Knight fans will act as if people are just missing an undiscovered skill-ceiling for him, but the reality is that there is none. I've tried every credible build combo on him, I nearly completed the grandmaster adept challenge on him, I've looped sweaty players using him since the PTB, There's just little to no skill expression for either player when the Knight is involved
I think @ScottJund 's video was good but there's a bit more nuance to the criticism of the Knight.
As an example, the Knight does have skill expression as in macro strategy, listening to footsteps to drop a guard directly on a survivor (even pre 6.5 you could get a hit on a survivor with the Jailer or Carnifex just by being super close with your orb), mind gaming and predicting survivors.
The practical issue with the Knight is that all those skills can be put to better effect on other Killers (eg. map disruption on Artist, predicting survivors correctly on Nurse, locating survivors by sound accurately on Spirit, any of the stronger Killers for mindgames, etc). As well, Scott's evaluation is based on chase skills and there are many Killers that chase better than the Knight. By those criteria, yes, the Knight is a failure.
There are other playstyles, though, such as map control, etc and the softcap is low enough that those playstyles, while not optimal, are possible and the Knight can play those well.
As well, from an entertainment perspective, the most important part is if players have fun. There are people who enjoy playing the Knight. From a business perspective, the impact on profitability is what determines success. I don't think anyone outside of BHVR has any data on that right now.
I also don't think BHVR would release another Killer as strong as the Nurse or Blight as they would be hesitant to invite the community uproar. If that's true, you can't really fairly evaluate a new Killer on whether it's really strong or not. Whether it is too weak for a player to have fun would be a fairer criteria. If we were to base a Killer's success solely on strength there's no reason for anyone to play anything but Nurse or Blight. However, fun is still the goal and strength is just a tool to acheive fun.
So, overall I agree that the Knight still needs work, but as one of the people who do enjoy playing Knight I would define the Knight more as still needing work than a failure. I understand completely why others would disagree but I have fun with the Knight, it's a video game, and I'm just looking for entertainment and not anything deeper.
-
I'm getting more and more Killer incentives as well. A couple months ago, I'd have roughly an hour and a half to two hours of survivor incentives after work and now it's Killer incentives with survivor only showing up during the day. Killer incentives kick in a lot earlier on the weekend as well.
-
@versacefeng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326421#Comment_3326421
I don’t see how bringing up stuff from other threads was necessary as you could’ve continued your argument without doing that. Especially since I never said anything was wrong with letting survivors bleed out after bming?
Didn't you say BM bleed outs are done for spite and for the lamest reasons? If you're teabagging a Killer and the Killer bleeds you out it's not done for a lame reason. While there are a few Killers who are just miserable people it's not like there are lots of Killers doing it just to be miserable. It's disingenuous to claim that it's done commonly or for lame reasons when bleedouts are mostly done for tactical reasons or as a response to being BMed.
The only reason I responded quoting you is because I do recall you defending teabagging. I highly suspect that the OP, or anyone else saying they're being left on the ground a lot, is being left on the ground because they hit that crouch button quite a few more times than they actually need to for normal gameplay. However, I don't recall them defending teabagging in any of the threads stating BM isn't necessary. If it had been any other poster who had been defending teabagging replying first I would have responded to them instead.
-
They're probably just monitoring kill rates right now and will adjust as needed. It's too soon to see which, and if Killer(s) will need a buff.
-
@burt0r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326421#Comment_3326421
Don't bother with them, they are heavily biased, just like op and a bunch of others you see here every now and then.
Yeah, you're right. It seems kind of obvious though. The survivors who defend teabagging say they spend a lot of time on the ground and the survivors who say people shouldn't teabag say they nearly always only see it done for tactical reasons by the Killer. It's almost as if there's a connection.
-
@TheWheelOfCheese said:
It is completely unprecedented that, after implementing a suggestion from the community (namely, making blink attacks non-basic), the community is unsatisfied and complains about what they didn't change. Truly, this is a one-of-a-kind occurrence within this community that nobody could have ever predicted.
100%. I'm also waiting for the OP to stream their 80% or 90% winrate with Nurse after practicing for 30 minutes. Surely they wouldn't deny us this opportunity. It would be disappointing and completely unexpected if the OP didn't provide.
-
@versacefeng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326179#Comment_3326179
No deliberately being bled out is more common than you think and it’s mostly for the lamest reason.
Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you defending teabagging in other threads? That's the only time I see it intentionally done. The rest of the time it's done to create pressure, chase other nearby survivors, or to secure the 4K (personally I think it's lame to do that but it's not BM and it's up to BHVR to implement a bleed out button at two survivors left; not the player).
If it is being done as a response to teabagging it's 100% justified and, if the Killer is slug camping because of teabagging, I'll just do gens, leave and not even bother to try saving. People reap what they sow in that case.
-
With how good Nowhere to Hide is I'm surprised Distortion didn't become more popular sooner. The issue with trying to move out of the area is that six seconds (24 metres divided by 4.0 m/s) is a lot of time to waste and, if the Killer kicks the gen, you will lose significant progress. Lockers are situational and could lead to a grab. Equip Distortion, hide, tap or continue the gen after the Killer leaves and you're good.
-
Hola, ese foro es puro ingles. El enlace por el foro español está aquí. Tendrás más suerte escribir alli porque hay poco aquí quien pueda hablar español.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/categories/spanish
-
@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324804#Comment_3324804
It would surprise me, Sluzzy at least made me chuckle sometimes.
@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324818#Comment_3324818
Like I always laugh at people on the forum when killer mains say "survivors just want killer to be nerfed until it's free 4 man outs" but audiophile actually does want that. Proof hours don't matter when people like this exist.
He's not. I remember him accusing me of not actually playing solo queue when I said that I enjoyed solo post 6.1 and Sluzzy hadn't been banned yet at the time.
That's part of the reason I posted all my games with links to the recordings a few months back going from Ash IV to Iri IV as solo queue (nothing after as I use map offerings to avoid depipping at Iri so that boosts my escape rate from Iri IV to Iri I and taints the data). It's part of his bias; he genuinely didn't believe someone could actually like solo queue post 6.1 or have a roughly 50% escape rate even though I said I was only speaking for myself. That's a side tangent though; Sluzzy was definitely also posting at the same time that went on.
-
Retribution, Haunted Grounds, Undying, Thrill of the Hunt. I always find it funny when Haunted procs (and sometimes twice in a match) simply because if the survivors just left the totems alone I would have been perkless.
Bonus points for when I'm defending a totem and the survivors are sure that that particular hex totem just has to go.
-
@I_CAME said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324816#Comment_3324816
The part about streamers isn't really true though. Streamers win so much that they are routinely accused of tanking their MMR off stream. Someone calculated the stats for Otz and he wins around 80% of his games despite regularly doing challenges with bad perks where he severely limits himself. If you can win 80% of your games at so called "high MMR" while bringing bad perks then how hard is the game really? You should not win that much in a game with a functional MMR system. You should maybe half of your games at most.
Doesn't Otz also do some of his killstreaks without addons and perks? That helps show high MMR is a myth since there's no way anybody could get a killstreak like that if the system returned equally matches opponents.
-
The only solid information we know is that the softcap is 1600 MMR, if there are queue times over possibly a minute it broadens and will expand by 200 MMR, and that Killer is easier to gain beginning MMR on then survivor. Those are all points that the devs previously mentioned.
That means a 1400 Killer could potentially be matched against a 2300 MMR survivor as an example and, since it's easier to hit 1400 MMR as Killer, it'll probably be seen more frequently on Killer.
We don't know what percentage of the playerbase is at the softcap, what high MMR is, how often the queue gets widened, etc. The only thing we really do know is that before the softcap was lowered major streamers were waiting up to 15 minutes to an hour for queues and presumably so was everyone else at that MMR which made the game unplayable for them.
From looking at other elo systems with a large playerbase we can surmise that since roughly a quarter to a third of their participants are at 1600+ DbD is probably similar but that's an educated guess but still a guess. I would guess that probably 40% of the playerbase is at 1400+ MMR and eligible to match against anyone else.
As well, if someone drops out of lobby the system prioritizes queue times and can pull someone from anywhere.
The only alternative to that would be queue times that would probably kill the game but inconsistent matching is the norm, not the exception in DbD.
-
My opinion is if they turned off collision for the survivor while OTR and DS were active the timers could be lengthened to until a conspicuous action was performed and tunneling would be discouraged far more than it is now.
It would also benefit Killers as attempts to OTR bodyblock would be useless as the Killer could just run through the survivor with OTR active and hit their intended target. Since it would deactivate upon doing anything productive anyone attempting to mindgame the Killer with it would be throwing the game as long as the Killer just targeted anyone other than the last person hooked.
-
@tippy2k2 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323718#Comment_3323718
I've been using him with Nurse's Calling (so I can see the survivors healing and can drop a Ghost Boy on their head while I chase the other one). It...kind of works. Usually still not very useful for getting any hits but they have to stop healing and it will distract two people as on has to run from the ghost while the other one has to run from me.
I use him like that for slowdown and disruption. I do get hits with the guards but the guards alone rely on two things (a) using audio to pick out where the survivors are while blind, and (b) setting it with both enough luck and accuracy that the Carnifex and Jailer are within roughly 1.5 metres of the target. If that sounds weaker and needing more luck than other Killers that's because it is. If you can pinpoint survivors accurately as Knight you'll get better results on Spirit with the same skillset. I don't know if you've played Spirit a lot but, if you have and don't rely on MDR, that's one way.
Another way to get the acheivement done is to position the chase so the you vector the survivor into the guard. That requires a lot of map knowledge, which I'm sure you have, so you can have the Knight herd the survivor into the guard.
The most reliable way is on maps with long corridors like Midwich. When chasing, go past the survivor and place the guard where the survivor will now be sandwiched between you and the guard.
And, of course, run Map of the Realm and Dried Horsemeat if you're not doing so already. I find the Knight fun but the main issue is that any skillset he can use another Killer can make use of it better (Artist for disruption, Spirit for location, and Bubba for the campers). I hope the PTB gives him more of a niche.
-
@Rulebreaker said:
Keep in mind we have a different playstyle with our artist so take everything with a grain of salt.
As Starlost said above, perk choice is abit odd for artist (though we don't have room to say much considering our normal build). While lethal is fine, overcharge, surveillance dont really do much for her, though you seemed to make face the darkness work for you so that was a pleasant surprise. We'd recommend switching out overcharge for pain res and surveillance for something else. For fun we'd say dark devotion (its hilarious having it proc at a distance), for practical deadmans (common, unoriginal, but undeniably effective) or iron maiden (lockers immediately remove swarms and a good chunk of players who know how to face artist liberally use them like steve did at the 16 min mark).
First thing we noticed is when you tried hurting survivors with the birds you kept stacking them on top of each other instead of spreading them out for better coverage like what you did at the barn at around the 9 min mark ("shotgun"). If your trying to get a hit out of the birds from a distance your gona want better area coverage atleast till you get a good feel for how everything works (gotta factor in how the survivors behave throughout the match, what the smart thing would be, would they do the smart thing, etc). Moving left or right gives a sort of carpet effect which helps (hard to explain but basically a wall of birds to sweep the targets) but credit due, you were getting a hang of it near the end. 13:13 was a nice set up, especially with the hands add on.
Overall you got the right idea for actually playing her (actively going for long range or creative hits instead of just stopping loops till wall) but need abit more work for execution (mainly the "shotgun" as it would have ended with many more hits). See starlost's list for more detailed...instructions? (we dont know what to call it so we gona say instructions for giggles)
As for the delta conversation, while we agree that bringing "weaker" killers up to a certain bar would help more than buffing perks in the long term, we don't think it will do enough as people will do whatever they wish, and what they will probably wish is for the easiest path to victory, which in turn leads them to think about tunneling the weak link. We also don't believe in losing at the selecting screen as everyone is "viable" at any level (depending on how hard they work for it mind, which isn't exactly appealing in a game ment to unwind...your gona be working VERY hard as sadako or twins compared to bleet or nurse). Honestly we feel its maps that cause that thought process more than the killers themselves. For example, we love hag and knight at lery's but will absolutely hate if we end up at erye as them (as an aside STOP WITH THE OFFERINGS PEOPLE, WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF WARDS).
@Krazzik said:
The difference in power between the higher tier and lower tier killers indeed makes it much harder to balance 'killers' vs 'survivors' as a whole. I mean you can look at Trapper, Wraith, Legion, Freddy, and you can see that there are common ways they struggle to get kills. Even the statistics may show them not doing all that well, but if you try and buff them globally, that means buffing Nurse, Blight, Spirit, Artist, killers that most can agree really -don't- need buffs. Heck look at the 6.1 global killer buffs, and how as I said, they did help out killers who just didn't need them. If all killers were as strong as Blight, there wouldn't have even been a suggestion for killer buffs. Likewise if all killers were Trapper-tier, well, no one would be playing Killer :p
This also goes back into what I said in the other thread, killers that are considered weaker are more likely to tunnel/camp/3-gen, because people think that weak killers -need- to do those things in order to have a chance against good survivors. This is -especially- true if they have a bad start. A Nurse who has a long first chase and loses two or even three gens may not worry too much, because her sheer power makes snowballs a lot more likely, and so she may continue to play 'normally'. A Freddy who loses two or three gens in the first chase is much more likely to think "Screw it, I -need- to tunnel/camp if I'm gonna get any kills in this game" because his weak killer power makes it much harder to put pressure on survivors who are already in a strong position.
This of course doesn't mean there aren't tunneling Nurses, nor does it mean that weaker killers don't try to spread out hooks, this is just generally-speaking.
Basically as long as there is such a gulf in power between the top tier killers and the bottom tier killers, I think global buffs aren't really a good idea. Now I understand that reworking every individual weaker killer to try and make them stronger is waaaaay more work then just blanket buffs. And I would rather get blanket buffs rather than nothing, but we really do need to see more changes aimed at closing the gap between the Nurses and the Trappers, just like we need to close the gap between SWFs and Solo queue if we're ever gonna get decent balance.
@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322599#Comment_3322599
Another fun perk on her that I forgot is Plaything. It's a mindgame - they will assume you have Pentimento and won't clear them. So...as long as you're hooking different people, you may as well have no TR.
Cool, thank you for the feedback and responses. I'll try out the suggestions and reflect on the feedback and discussion points. Thanks again, I appreciate it.
-
@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/361645/artist-gameplay-and-delta
Okay. Let me go with timestamps this time, because Artist is probably my strongest killer. Be warned, I may come over snarky, but apparently that's just how I write. No snark intended.
Staring out - I'm a little confused at your perk choice.
LP - Yes. Makes absolute sense, because Artist thrives on info.
Surveillance - Nah. It's not a great perk all told, and it doesn't really synergize with her. I guess you're trying to nudge people off gens, but in that case, you have better options.
Overcharge - I actually liked this perk for a bit, but...it sucks. No bones, it sucks. It even sucks brought with other perks. 12 seconds to catch up to regular regression...that's ridiculous.
That Knight Perk I Can Never Remember The Name Of - Eh. It's...fine, but again - you're clearly going for info. I think 2 of your 3 info perks are giving you the wrong sort of info.
I'd go with the following, along your theme:
- Lethal Pursuer. -Alternative- Discordance. I really like both of these - Discordance will work much like LP will at the start of the match, and especially towards the end - line up 3 birds just right (or use the purple addon) and you'll hammer folks.
- Floods of Rage - Synergizes with hook perks amazingly, and gives you a massive amount of time to aura read, probably in the middle of a chase. -Alternative- Nowhere to Hide. People like to try and stick close to Artist for...some reason. And this perk is evil. Some Artists like BBQ...but with LP, this will show you folks miles away. I don't use it because of how the auras get blotted out by gens.
- Pain Resonance - It's just a good perk, and not as volatile as Eruption. -Alternative- Call of Brine. Just a decent perk all round, and it'll give you similar info to what Surv would provide, on top of regression.
- Dead Man's Switch - Yes, this is that Artist combo, and it works on her for a reason. Bird the gens, people let go, DMS activates. Simple and effective. -Alternative- Anything, really. More info? Go with I'm All Ears. Stronger regression? Pop, Deadlock, CI. Something fun and crazy - STBFL. She uses this astonishingly well.
The trial.
1:42 - With LP, don't shoot birds right away. Get close. You've just told them who you are and one of your perks, and survivors tend to move around a lot to start anyway. I do like your addons though...dammit I wish you'd had Discordance.
1:54 - Actually a nice snipe, but I still think this could have been a proper chase and a down instead.
2:07 - I think that Claudette was in the other 'hut', and snuck off while you checked. It happens, but don't loiter. A quick peek in either one to make sure she's not hiding, then go go go. Also - If you aren't chasing or about to chase, keep birds on cooldown. It's passive slowdown, essentially, and you can send survivors false information about where you are by waiting to fire.
2:35 - As a rule, on Artist, don't break any pallet that isn't a god pallet. Pallets are survivor traps for you to bird them on. Especially don't break it when you've got multiple folks to be chasing :)
-> 3:21 - That Steve chase was rough. At one point, when he dropped the pallet, get all 3 birds out and shotgun him. Single bird snipes are difficult and something you'll learn.
3:27 - Don't vault that on Artist. You want him on that loop. Line two birds up laterally along the sides and he's completely trapped unless he drops that pallet, one of the strongest on the map. You then drop chase - okay.
3:40 - Unless you're Erupting, there's no reason to take a kick at a gen that low, even with Surv. Go break that door, see if you can pick up her trail. It does pay off a touch later though so...who knows?
4:25 - Rather spread the birds out a bit more for a shotgun. But that's a situation where she could be anywhere - save them, close the distance.
5:01 - Steve, why aren't you healed yet? Oh, Dead Hard. Yeah, now you know it's there. Next time, bird him and shotgun, because even if he uses it you're right on him.
5:25 - You had her. Release the birds sooner!
5:50 - That would have been the perfect time to shotgun.
6:19 - This...might have lost you the game. I'm amazed you didn't drop her.
6:43 - Nice. This feels like where you could snowball.
7:05 - A trick, on Artist. If you aren't chasing, and especially with that addon, set up three birds aimed right at the hook once you're out of sight. You'll either proc End, DH, injure the unhooker or all 3.
7:22 - If you'd fired right there, you'd have hit her.
7:58 - You birded two, shotgun, then close in. Your addons make this even better.
8:15 - What is that Claudette doing? Ugh.
9:02 - You could have had a second hook on Steve, but you do start hooking people and the game starts leveling out.
16:08 - Fire a second earlier, you'd hit him.
16:10 - I'd have kept chasing.
16:37 - Get your birds back, send 1 out to each gen.
16:53 - You can hear her. Send a bird to the pallet area.
17:00 and the ensuing chase - ditto.
17:20ish - Find that Claud, ignore the Feng.
17:34 - That gen is getting done, sadly. Not even worth a kick. Chase that Steve instead.
17:42 - Some indecision. You see a survivor that's injured, you chase.
18:05 - Huh, ignore me. That Steve pooped the sheets and you saved the gen for a bit. Now win this.
19:59 - Again, either shoot or don't. I would have fired at her, as she's trying to greed the gen. One bird, immediately. But you just win from here, so well done.
To the other question, Knight needs help. We'll see how the patch goes.
Perfect, sounds great. Thanks for the detailed analysis. I appreciate it and I'm going to start reviewing it on the timestamps. Thanks again.
-
That sounds cool. I've used Ruin and Deadlock together to get a similar effect but I never thought of Ruin with Merciless Storm and Tinkerer. That's interesting; I'll definitely give it a try.
-
Congratulations on the acheivement!
-
MMR is soft capped at 1600 and can pull from 1400+ if needed to reduce queue times. If you're over 1600 the only thing losing a game does is make it one game closer to going below the soft cap. Five losses probably isn't enough to make an impact.
-
@Beatricks said:
Please never let people gaslight you into thinking you are bad at whatever. I'm sure there is room for improvement, but Dead By Daylight is ridiculously broken when it comes to balance. Why do you think tournaments basically never see a killer outside the usual and very limited suspects? If you aren't playing one of the broken killers or utilize the scummiest of tactics, the majority of games aren't really winnable, especially when you are on a map like Game, Garden of Pain or RPD. I wish I could tell you that eventually you'll get weaker teams, but with SealcluBbing based MatchMaking, that's not guaranteed. Try and get into the mindset of fun chases>winning, it's very annoying when survivors rub their incredibly easy victory in your face, but eventually you should be able to just shrug it off and gg out.
For the OP and anyone saying they're frustrated I second, third and if possible, fourth never let people gaslight you into thinking you are bad. It's unfortunately a huge tendency in video games for people to say anyone who is new or having an issue to say 'they're bad' when everybody makes mistakes and has issues at times. Even the best players at anything in the world can still improve so always self reflect but don't pay attention to people who try to put you down.
@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319710#Comment_3319710
I'm too lazy to list the the perks but the killers I have are
Trapper, Wraith, Hillbilly, Nurse, Huntress, Daddy Myers, Hag, Doctor, Bubbi Boi, Freddy, Clown, Spirit, Legion, Vommy Mommy, Ghostie Boi, Demopuppy, Mr Cowboy, Pyramid Head, Blight, Trickster.
I did buy some perks from the shop: Plaything and Pain Resonance.
I really just play as Trapper or Doctor, but I waste too much time with survivors just trying to catch up to them. They're always running long before I get to their gen and by the time I catch up to them a gen is gone. I know I should run Corrupt Intervention, but even when I do, by the time I finish setting my traps with Trapper, and down one person, three gens are gone and the traps I set are disarmed.
I'm tempted to just buy an anti-loop killer at this point or suffer playing Nurse until I get used to the headache nausea inducing fatigue.
I think some of it is power creep. There are more tools to bust 3 gens now and you don't have a lot of the perks to keep up. For Trapper, I run CI and Deadlock and, depending on RNG, sometimes I still can't get all my traps placed before the survivors bust my planned kill zone and the match is a wash.
As an example, no Sadako so no Call of Brine for the notification, no Nemesis so no LP for a strong early game to disrupt survivors and no Knight so no Nowhere to Hide to catch any survivors stealthing by the gen.
Doctor and Trapper are both low mobility and, honestly, they're outclassed by the newer Killers. Doctor's whole shtick seems to be designed for when DbD was hide and seek and fares poorly in chase and, with Trapper, quite often my match is determined by what CI blocks. I've beaten groups on Artist that I don't think I would have gotten more than 2 or 3 hooks on as Doctor. The delta between the strongest and weakest Killers is pretty significant.
If you're open to trying newer Killers and don't want a licensed one I would try out Dredge. Artist is better but you don't like the bird sounds and the Knight, while I find fun, is still very macro strategy oriented and is weaker than Artist. If you teleport a lot as Dredge you might find the much better map mobility to be a huge relief. You'll also want to maximize your time in Nightfall. If you're going to try a licensed Killer Wesker is both strong and fun (and, if you're indifferent to whether it's a licensed Killer or not, Wesker is stronger than Dredge).
Anyway, I hope that helps.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317507#Comment_3317507
The way they explained it that it's also based on MMR. So it's quite possible for someone in the same region as you to have a totally different incentive.
That would explain it because I think I am over the softcap on most Killers but very likely below the softcap on survivor. That would explain why my experience is so different from the person I originally responded to.
-
@Beatricks said:
Sorry if I'm bursting some bubbles, but if you win with a trash tier killer (Legion, Pig, Wraith etc) it wasn't because you are good at the game (although you might be!) The only reason is that the survivors were complete potatoes.
CM Winters is past the softcap with Pig and does very well. I would modify the statement to say that it was because the survivors were outmatched since the soft cap is low enough that high mmr is a myth. It needs to stay that way so queue times don't kill the game but if I would guess 40% of the players can be matched against each other there is effectively no high MMR.
-
@th3syst3m said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317340#Comment_3317340
And you would assume trends on those platforms are different for what reason?
For me, the trends on Steam don't indicate a decline but rather the exact same pattern that happens every year so it's probably the same on the other platforms as well.
-
@Vampirox said:
for me Killers in general (well their perk builds) are ruining the game.
Hud will only do so much
survivor perk changes always get drawbacks which ruins the perks and no one runs anymore.
Survivor has to many negatives other than to have fun playing with friends for like 1-3 games.
West coast survivor queues are once again mainly 100% bp all the time now even thru peak times.
I don't think the incentives are only determined by location. I have no idea how they work but I'm NA West as well and +100% Killer shows up for me for a couple hours during the day and as soon as it passes 7 PM MST it's nearly always +100% Killer.
-
I use map offerings after I've had the same map 3 or 4 times in a row to try to break the RNG on both roles. On survivor I'll use them at Iri ranks at either two or three pips into the next grade to decrease my possibility of depipping since so many things that can cause a depip are out of an individual survivor's control. What I would prefer far more is if BHVR removed depipping from both roles since it's just for BP now. I don't care that much about map offerings but there is very little in DbD that is as frustrating as being a solo queue 3 pips into an Iri grade and then losing three pips over the next three games.
It's like 'Damn it Wesker, give me my fricking seven minutes you promised me so I don't depip.'
-
I'll second (or, in this case, fourth) Entity block. It addresses all of the major legitimate issues.
-
Here's a further illustration for the OP showing why the statement 1600 MMR is the top 5% is not accurate. The link I'm leaving below shows season 5 of WoW arenas which did use the elo system, just as DbD, chess and the other MMR systems use.
World of Warcraft Shadowlands Season 4 PvP Statistics, Title Cutoffs, Player Activity Tracking and Representation Charts for US and EU Servers.As you'll see, titles were awarded by what percentage of MMR the person was in according to their region. Why region? Because the point at which you hit that depends on the competition and scale of players. MMR rating is specific to the groups and subgroups in whichever sysyem is measuring it. As such, nobody can state a certain MMR means x percentage of people in the game overall as what percentage is x MMR depends on the participants in it unless BHVR uses a global system for all servers. Does BHVR do this? Who knows? Somebody in BHVR who's not talking knows and that's it.
We can look at population distribution and note that, in the season I showed from WoW, 1600 meant approximately 1/3 of the arena players. In chess organizations, we can see a 1600 rating means 20% of the players in one group, 25% in another, and maybe 1% in a highly select group. So, can we draw a conclusion from that to DbD? Not a chance; we don't have enough data. We could infer that, since 1600 is greater than 5% of the population in every other elo system with a large playerbase, it's unlikely to be 5% of the playerbase in DbD and that seems reasonable but I have no idea what the 5% cutoff is and neither does anyone else outside of BHVR.
Since DbD can draw a 1400 MMR player against a 2200 MMR player if there aren't enough players to match against the size of the population is expanded even further. I would guess that about 40% to 50% of the population would be at 1400 MMR+ especially as Killer and that's why matches can be so inconsistent and you can get normal survivors one match and Seal Team Six the next or survivors will face a newer Killer one game and then a death machine that cuts through them like an anime cartoon the next.
That's just how it is. High MMR is a myth and that's why players like Otz, Dowsey, Hens, etc will get so many easy matches in a row. The alternative, matching to MMR level accurately, would leave players at I would guess the top 20% waiting 15 minutes to an hour for one match and they would quit playing. If BHVR releases the data for what the top 5% of MMR is we'll know what it is for the time range of the data but unless they do so nobody has any concrete idea.
-
@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316261#Comment_3316261
Yeah, the queue time is the real red flag here when it comes to the accuracy of MMR; if it was as rigidly accurate as the "TOP MMR/TOP LEVEL/TOP PERCENTAGE" crowd wants to be believe, their queue times would be nearly eternal. I get it, they put thousands of hours in and want to believe their dedication has set them apart, but it just isn't so.
You just can't have it be that narrow and keep the queue times from alienating people.
There is no subsection of the player base who aren't subject to the birdshot level inaccuracy of the MMR system. Watch just about any streamer and you can see it, if you're willing to. And sadly, it kind of has to be that way to keep the game playable.
Exactly, and that's why Patrick, during one of the dev streams, also talked about how, if matches were to be completely fair, people would be waiting for hours for matches so the system prioritizes speed over even skill levels. Dowsey, as my example again, is definitely in the top MMR but, after the skill cap was reduced, switched from hour long waits to a few minutes. Lowering the MMR cap did not magically create a bunch of more skilled players; it just increased the range of players he can match with.
Otherwise, who's going to wait an hour for a match? Nobody.
-
@Hermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316252#Comment_3316252
Video is still good, it is just this one short sentence (like not even 2 seconds in the whole video) where they were wrong. OP is just cherrypicking stuff from it and ignoring everything else.
Yeah, the video is fine. It's just the premise of the OP, that MMR effectively works properly and pairs only players of a similar skill level to other skill levels, that is faulty. That's the premise I'm criticizing. 1600 doesn't involve only 5% of the player base; it involves a large enough amount of the playerbase, especially considering it can go down to 1400 MMR, that 'high MMR' doesn't effectively exist. That's why Dowsey now gets a match in a few minutes instead of waiting hours.