TheSubstitute
TheSubstitute
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@Hermit said:
Top 5% MMR means the 5% of players that are at the top of the MMR scale, not that only 5% of the players are above 1600 MMR.
This is unfortunately the point the OP has completely missed. The softcap was previously 1900 and it was moved to 1600 for a variety of concerns. The population distribution at each MMR didn't change; only the range of MMRs did and since a 2300 MMR player can meet a 1400 MMR player if enough queue time is involved the soft cap is low enough that high MMR is a myth.
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Hens disagrees with you. Are you claiming he doesn't understand it or his point that if you're at 1400 MMR you can be matched with people over the softcap if their wait is a minute or more?
https://youtu.be/lHk8IcjjSXE -
@Forza said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316055#Comment_3316055
It's not just smart. It's the only option other than for one side to make the wrong move.
If there are gens left what's stopping the survivor from doing gens and leaving by the exit gates if you camp hatch? If you move away from the hatch to patrol the now powered gates what's stopping the survivor from leaving through the hatch?
If the survivor doesn't try to do gens for a significant period of time (I think 20 minutes was mentioned) that's reportable under the ToS. After an hour I think the game hard closes but I might be wrong because I have literally never seen the situation you're describing with a single survivor. I have seen dual survivors drag it out but I think the longest they lasted was 30 minutes before I found one and forced an endgame scenario.
That begs the question though; why would you want to wait an hour to get a 4K in a match you already won? The hatch is an RNG pity escape for the last survivor of a match that the survivors already lost. Why waste your time?
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Definitely. For me, it either precedes or follows a day where I have a ton of escapes. If I don't feel like following through as I'm pipping up (or trying to) at Iri or something stupid like that I just try again a few hours later and it's usually changed. It seems to come in waves for some reason for me.
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If the exit gates can be opened that means all the gens were done. In that case, it doesn't matter if the survivor has a key or not they can always get out the exit gates so close the hatch. If the gens were not done then the only viable escape in 99% of instances is the hatch. If you don't close the hatch the survivor can always leave through the hatch so you might as well close the hatch. The point of having a key is aura reading and/or opening the hatch; that's why the person is giving up med kit heals, faster gens or flashlight saves. It is literally what the item is designed for.
TLDR: Just close the hatch; there's no reason to leave it open other than giving a hatch escape to the last survivor.
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There's Borgo, Coldwind, Garden, Lery's and the Game left so I don't think survivors will be that bad off.
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@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315481#Comment_3315481
Considering how little we know about the MMR system and its low soft cap, I find that most people that try to argue that the fact that they're "above" it and therefore at the same level as everyone else to be vastly underestimating the skill level of higher level players, especially survivors. I don't pretend to know how the MMR system functions, all I know is that most of my games, especially on my most played killers, tend to be against extremely competent survivors more often than not, and it didn't use to be this way. This isn't evidence of anything, but to claim to understand the MMR system and its functionality entirely is absolutely fallacious unless you happen to have intimate information about its mechanics.
Casual players are, by definition, casual, and less likely to discuss or even delve too deeply into the game's mechanics. You'll find a lot less casual players, for example, on this forum, as the dedication required to discuss the game likely means that the person cares more than a casual player. Ergo, the experiences of a casual player are definitely not relevant in the discussion at hand.
Tunneling will cost you the game if you're a bad tunneler, it's that easy. If you try to tunnel a person that leads you on a 5-gen chase, you cost yourself the game - not the strategy. Tunneling is OBJECTIVELY the strongest strategy in the game currently, and it's the reason why you see it done so much at higher levels of play.
I also used to never tunnel or camp, and prided myself in it, then I won enough games that if I ever dare try to play without pressuring one or two people in specific, I'll lose all 5 gens by the time I have 4-5 hooks, especially when playing a B-tier or lower killer.
Your opinion is contrary to my own opinion and experiences, so I don't really care for it. Again, no one outside of the dev team really understands the inner workings of the MMR system and how much wiggle room it affords above the soft cap. However, I'd be willing to wager a good amount of the "sweaty" killers beside myself on this forum have similar experiences where they run into very competent swfs more often than not.
That's fine; we can agree to disagree. I do run into very good SWFs and I still quite often win without camping or tunneling. Are there SWFs that would stomp me? Of course there are. However, I generally play later at night for three reasons; Killer incentives, a lower queue time and a higher chance to face SWFs which are more of a challenge than solos so I do run into quite a few SWFs.
Your experience can be different but we dont know a variety of factors: which of us is the more skilled player, whether our servers make a difference, whether the time of day makes a difference, the exact intricacies of the MMR system, etc. I find that a lot of people tend to point at whatever fault they can try to dig up to justify their own position such as when @BradQuackson posted his Nurse play and people said 'the survivors weren't very good' and ignored that his match was a random sample of his very long win streak and his point that he won virtually all of his matches was very legitimate.
The fact is that I don't camp or tunnel and I spread around hooks and I win most of my games. There are three possibilities I see; a) is that MMR point gain is completely borked and that's influencing my experience but, in which case, everyone should be experiencing that, b) that camping and tunneling is a choice but not a necessity in most matches, or c) your server just has a far higher proportion of very high survivors than mine.
Personally, I think it's b) and the majority of people who say it's necessary are just trying to justify their choice or have trapped themselves at a level where they need to because they haven't worked on their other game skills enough. I find that most people who get defensive over the statement that camping and tunneling is not necessary fall into one of those two categories.
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@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315378#Comment_3315378
a) You are playing the Knight differently than the people who play him optimally, because the optimal way to play him is to use his power to shut down loops as quick as possible (like an Artist for dummies), secure quick hits, hook someone in a 3-gen, and camp them out - ideally to death.
b) Define "everyone else". If you're referring to the vast majority of the player base (who I assume plays at a level below the top levels), then you're probably not using the killer all that differently. If you're referring to the portion of the player base that plays the killer at the highest level, and HAS to use him optimally, then you are most definitely using him differently.
"In regular games" is an impertinent phrase. A regular game for you may be 4 players who play the game once a week and have no idea what they're doing. A regular game for someone else may be a sweaty swf that plays this game like a full-time job, brings map offerings and S tier items every game, and has perfect comms. There is no middle ground here. And you absolutely do need to camp/tunnel/3-gen from the start if you're playing at the highest level of play (or close to it), because survivors are simply too efficient, and to do otherwise would be to use the killer suboptimally which will likely lead to a loss. You may not enjoy the quad slowdown 3-gen camping strat (I don't either), but it's currently the optimal way to play this killer specifically, hence why so many people gravitate to it.
When I say you were cherrypicking, I didn't intend to infer that it was done with malice. I meant that it is cherrypicked by definition; as it is an extremely small sample size (one game) played against an evidently incompetent team. It wouldn't be all that different if I played a game against all bots, without using my power or any perks, go out of my way to 8-hook them, and try to convince people that this constitutes proof that camping/tunneling/perks/powers aren't necessary to 4k. It's not realistic, and it's not relevant to any tangible discussion.
Thanks for explaining your definition of cherry picking as it sounded kind of like you were lumping me in with sporadic 99% kill rate, 80% solo escape rate claims that show up sporadically.
I don't think it is impertinent to describe the matches people encounter as regular games and I do think there is a wide and varying level of skill shown in there and not one extreme or other. The soft cap is low enough there are not any Killers who, outside of custom matches, etc, are facing top tournament level players on a regular basis. That is just not the reality of the game.
I don't think your explanation covers it though. Tunneling can, if you just pick the first survivor seen, cost you the game and there are a lot of people who play sub-optimally due to fun, they don't want to be really sweaty to the other side, etc. I didn't see that with my Knight experience which is why I asked. To be honest, with the softcap, playing optimally would be boring.
To be honest, and I'm not trying to blow my horn, I win definitely more than the kill rate BHVR is shooting for. I also, unless BMed, never tunnel or camp and both statements have been true for months on all Killers I wanted to play even semi-seriously (outside of using Frozen Ghostface to pop out of snowmen and things like that).
The high level MMR thing is, in my opinion, a myth. The soft cap is too low for anyone to run into tournament level teams where it might be necessary on a regular basis. I will of course add the caveat that I don't believe any single player, regardless of the number of games, can serve as definitive proof of anything as one person can't represent everybody but, for me at least, out of an average of 4 to 8 Killer games a day over months I have seen no need to consider tunneling and camping and was able to win a considerable majority of them with spreading out hooks. That's why I don't think it's necessary. Matchmaking does not have enough survivors of the skill level where one would have to to regularly encounter them.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315360#Comment_3315360
considering that majority of the comments say the team had no idea what they were doing, I do not retract my statement.
No problem, it was literally a random match from a day I randomly picked. I win nearly all of my Knight games so this is a representation of what you see in regular play and not tournament style play which I specifically said I wasn't referencing. If you feel they didn't know what to do that just strengthens my point that the softcap is low enough there's no need to tunnel and camp in regular matches; it's a choice and not a necessity. I think they were competent overall, not great but competent, but if the softcap is low enough survivors who don't know what to do are matched against more experienced Killers that just helps illustrate that tunneling and camping is not necessary in regular play. Tournament could be a totally different matter but I'm talking about regular matches, not tournaments.
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@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
I watched a bit of the video, and I'm honestly confused at what the point of this thread is supposed to be. You played against four survivors that had absolutely no idea how to play against the killer (and it wouldn't be a stretch to infer from this that they're not very good at the game to begin with), got a good result while not using the killer optimally or with optimal perks, and think that this one game somehow constitutes enough data to condemn the rest of the player base.
To answer your inquiry, people use the knight to camp 3-gens because he has one of the strongest basekits to do so. He's a very strong camper overall, and tunneling is the optimal way to play the game currently (unfortunately), hence why so many killers are doing it. The result is that the average, sweaty Knight player that wants to win will likely proxy camp their first hook, while holding a 3-gen, and will try to tunnel out the person if they do get unhooked. It's not rocket science.
Sorry, I just don't see what the point of this thread is. If you're trying to incite discussion about the Knight, there was probably a better way to do so. If you're trying to somehow change everyone's opinions on the killer by using a cherrypicked game as data, then I don't know what to tell you.
The thread and my questions indicate that the main question of the thread was that I only experience Knights who tunnel, camp and/or 3 gen from the start and I play Knight very differently. As such, I asked if I (a) played Knight very differently and; (b) is what I experienced common to everyone else.
I'm unsure what your definition is of condemn but, to me, saying that, in regular games, you don't need to camp, tunnel or 3 gen from the start is not a condemnation but rather a statement of fact. If you disagree and feel that you need to tunnel, camp and 3 gen from the start with triple or quad regression perks with the Knight to win in regular matches please feel free to state that and why.
I'm also unsure what your definition of cherry picking is but I don't consider randomly picking a day to record a match and show it warts and all no matter what happens constitutes cherry picking.
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@loothound said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315074#Comment_3315074
Tunnelling, camping, running 3 to 4 slowdowns isn't necessary on most killers, but it gives an easier win, so why wouldn't they run/do it and get the mild dopamine hit from seeing that 4k screen?
"...if I can disrupt survivors from doing gens long enough, I will win." Its basically what all the other knights are doing to its logical conclusion. "If I can lock down this 3 gen, eventually the survivors will mess up and you win!"
I think winning chases immediately is a pretty good way of wearing the survivors down and disrupting gens. Why chase a good looper at a strong tile when you can plop down a guard, they have to hold W to the next loop or he gets hit by the guard or you and dies if there's no more interconnected loops. Forcing people to go for saves more and heal more often since they dont want to be caught edge map or just no other loops around is game delay in itself.
You're still thinking micro as opposed to a macro strategy. If I have one person in chase I have one person occupied. More survivors occupied are better.
I'm suspecting your arguments are coming from me saying Killers don't need to camp or tunnel in regular play. As @StarLost mentioned it's overkill in most situations. I don't need to camp or tunnel and I don't like to camp or tunnel so I don't. You also said most Killers don't need to camp or tunnel; they want to. That's my secondary point. Personally, I don't care if people tunnel and camp; that's BHVR's job to fix and not the players but it's the player's choice and saying they need to in this meta isn't entirely accurate.
@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315074#Comment_3315074
Honestly, if that's all your asking then we think it's luck. We've (thankfully) only had 2 outa the 10 knights we've seen do the 3 gen camp (tunnelers would be about 6/10 if we remember right). Tunneling and camping at a 3gen is what most see as the easiest way to "win" so that what they do.
Thanks for the input; that was my main question. Maybe I'm just unlucky but every Knight I've run across other than me has done it. It could just be bad luck or a quirk of my server, time I play at, MMR or any combination of those. I was just curious as, for example, with Bubba, I see more friendly Bubbas than I see facecamping Bubbas but what you're experiencing with the Knight is similar to with other Killers so maybe it's just a quirk specific to me I see so many doing it.
@HugTechLover said:
I didn’t need to watch past the first chase with Ash. That’s a newbie team.
Or, alternatively, the Ash was surprised and made a mistake like everyone does. Nobody's perfect but since you didn't watch the rest of the video you can't really comment on anything other than a very specific sequence and you can't really draw a conclusion from such a small sequence.
That's irrelevant in my opinion, however, as I win most of my games as Knight without camping, tunneling or 3 genning from the start with multiple regression perks. The match was literally a completely random sample where I just thought 'hey, I'll record my next match for this question' and did so. As such, it is representative of the type of totally random matches you get since the softcap is where it is.
If you're trying to dismiss it because you like to tunnel and camp (which I don't know if you do or not but when I say it's not needed most dismissals come from people who do tunnel and camp) the secondary point I made wasn't that you shouldn't; it's that you don't need to. I don't care if you tunnel, camp, meme in a snowman, farm, or two hook and let everyone go. It's your game and time; play it how you want. My point specific to the Knight was that you don't have to tunnel and camp or 3 gen from the start to be successful in regular games and I have no problem showing that in sequential matches. As I only experienced tunnelers and campers as opposed to a variety of playstyles like with other Killers I asked if I played very differently from most Knights.
@Krazzik said:
It's clear you have a rather different view of the game than others. I don't mean that in a bad way at all by the way, but surprisingly-few killers pay any attention to the macro game. The vast, vast majority of killer players only focus on finding survivors quickly and ending chases quickly, which Knight is not very good at. Heck I mainly play killer that way.
I can understand he may be better when focusing more on a macro mindset, though I would still say he falls quite a bit behind someone like Artist who has complete map pressure and information from her power alone.
Cool, thanks for the input. I can't get anybody I know irl to play DbD because of survivors bullying and gloating at new Killers (not all survivors of course but enough it was unpleasant enough to deter anyone I know from continuing) so the forum here is the only place for me to get opinions from.
I do agree as well that the Knight is better when he is played macro and that the Artist is much better than the Knight. The playstyle is different enough I can play him for variety but with the Artist, who I generally main, I've easily won against survivors I would describe as really good as opposed to just competent and that I think would have given me a very hard time on Knight. The Artist is definitely the stronger Killer. I would say Knight is maybe B+ but Artist is S tier.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3314871#Comment_3314871
Not a bad game, but not exactly typical.
Why FOR out of interest? It seems a little redundant. I'd got Lethal Pursuer as that synergizes with NTH really well.
Thanks for looking at that. I use FOR as I use the guards for harassment a lot and to use up their resources (medkits, etc). FoR is likely to activate at an inopportune time for the survivors and then I can see where they are and plan my next move accordingly. Getting survivors off gens is my priority as, if I can disrupt survivors from doing gens long enough, I will win. They'll get frustrated, panic, and make mistakes. Why chase a good looper at a strong tile if I catch them out of position? FoR helps me to accomplish that by letting me know the survivors positions and also if a good looper is in a vulnerable spot.
Nowhere to Hide is a better perk overall in my opinion but since I don't need the 2 extra seconds for LP on Nowhere To Hide I use FoR so I can some additional updates to change my strategy as needed. I generally main Artist and I do use LP there for the strong open with Face the Darkness for the extra time but I don't find Nowhere to Hide needs the extra time since the patrol radius with Map of the Realm is usually large enough to catch them.
@loothound said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315018#Comment_3315018
Ok I watched your video and the survivors are continually getting hit by the carnifex and jailer even though you can literally out run them in a straight line like at 13:10 where you make a needlessely long trail for ash to leave the loop or get hit and he literally just outruns your guard by holding W in a straight line.
Every time you use you your power at a loop you make a super long path to "cut the survivor off" but like you spend so long doing it and the survivors know about it they just leave the loop when crapping out your guard instantly would have the same effect and even better since the survivors have less time to hold W to a different loop which the Borgo has a ton of.
The Leon is well a Leon. Ash literally can hear and see you plop down your power at the beginning second hit hit and doesnt leave the loop and hold W to the next one so he dies, but other than that, pretty competent. The Nea is pretty competent as well. And Meg got double hit which was nice.
Thanks for your input but I think there's a difference in how we're viewing it. While it might have been more efficient on a micro sense to just drop a guard and go my goal is not to win chases immediately but to wear the survivors down and disrupt their objective. Since I always use Dried Horsemeat and Map of the Realm except when experimenting I want the guards to chase the survivors. Every second in chase is a second that survivor is not doing something important regardless of whether it's me or a guard doing the chase. I could win a chase more easily but lose the game by not spreading enough pressure. Unless you have a specific example in mind I think I'm viewing the game more as time management as a strategy to win.
@Rulebreaker said:
While we applaud you for not being stereotypical, a single match isn't enough data. That said, we agree that running full regression and camping a 3 gen isn't necessary for knight.
What we (two of us anyway) saw was 1 survivor being a anchor (either newer or not good. Ash ran back TOWARDS you for that first chase instead of any other direction) and leon prioritizing blinds and flashbangs (likely a swf but we dont know so cant say). The reason ash lived so long was because you deliberately switched targets. Meg was mostly competent while nea is in a similar boat (she was competent but kept getting stuck on things it seemed). Overall while you played very well, especially for coming back from a break, we dont think it would be a good idea to use this specific video as proof.
Props though for a stylish down on meg. That one was beautiful.
Thanks and you're correct; a single match is not enough data. I would go further and say that any set of matches from a single player is not enough to determine the long-term strength or weakness of a Killer. What I'm mainly asking is why does nobody else I've seen play like this along with the statement that we agree on that tunneling, camping and 3 or 4 regression perks are not necessary on Knight to do well. Unfortunately, Knight is also an outlier in that I haven't seen any other Knight player that hasn't tunneled, camped and/or 3 genned with multiple regressions from the start. I think that there are other playstyles viable for Knight in regular play but, unlike every other Killer, I don't see it when versusing Knight.
I'm not playing against top tier tournament death squads regularly but, with the soft cap being what it is, neither is anybody else in regular play. If anyone is interested in seeing what the data looks like over a set of games I could record the results on rank reset from Ash IV to Iri 1 and summarize it on a data sheet for people to look at similar to what I did with solo queue survivor. I'm not going to estimate my win rate, and I'm not trying to blow my own horn or anything, but I'm much better at Killer than I am at Survivor so it might be interesting to see. But it does take time so my only hesitation about doing it is I don't want to do it if it's not useful to anyone. If it is useful or interesting to anyone I'm happy to put it out there.
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@Pulsar said:
I actually think he's okay to good after testing him a lot.
I agree. I think he's underrated.
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@loothound said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3314998#Comment_3314998
A long distance guard chase without you there to pressure the survivor will most of the time be a waste of time. You spend time creating the path and the moment the guard aggros the survivor they just run around a rock or something and collect the banner and you just wasted your power and are now a just 115% killer
Did you watch the video?
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@Akumakaji said:
Its pretty easy: if I interrupt the unhooking process, unless its the EGC, you are free to go and probably heal in some corner and I will try to go for the unhooker, BUT if you bodyblock me in order to abuse and weaponize the free BT, then I consider this your consent to staying in the game. By bodyblocking for your teammate you put yourself right back on the menu and I will gladly wack you and then hunt you down.
TL,dr: crazy, actions have consequences!
I do something similar. I always alternate hooks but if you use it to body block me while I go for the unhooker you just took their place. If the Killer wants to go for the unhooker just let them.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3314909#Comment_3314909
The new buffs for Knight will do little, they make longer patrols more viable but it'll usually still be better just to instantly drop a guard at a loop to force the survivor to leave it.
Regardless it will also do little to change the common perception that Knight is weak. Most people think Knight is a very weak killer, and whether that's true or not doesn't really matter. People believe that he's weak and people believe that you need to camp/tunnel/3-gen as a weak killer.
Bubba is not really considered weak, so I guess that might be why people are more likely to play 'properly' on him.
That would make sense. I don't consider Knight weak but more of a macro strategy Killer. As you play Twins (I'm assuming) you know that if you can set up a slug or a survivor on hook, a survivor dealing with or healing from Victor, and someone dealing with Charlotte then keep on juggling that the pressure causes most survivors to fall apart.
I find that similar to the Knight and see how it surprises survivors. As an example, with the Ash who I thought was a decent survivor, at the beginning he did not expect me to plop a guard in mid-chase directly behind him from locating him via footsteps and sandwiching him between me and the guard in a lose lose scenario.
The multiple times I used the guards to tie up survivors was intentional as I was wearing down the survivors to disrupt their effectiveness and wear out their resources for a quick clean up at the end. I also used the guards to herd survivors to where I wanted but that also requires map knowledge and knowledge of loops. Also, in my opinion, pinpointing survivors by sound is an important skill for Knight gameplay.
If a survivor is in chase and/or injured from a guard, one is in chase with me, one on hook and one healing or rescuing nobody is on gens. Regardless of whether I win the chases at the beginning or not, I'll win the game if I can keep that pressure up.
If you focus on micro strategy then, yeah, I think Knight will feel weak since to use his power in chase outside of acting like Artist's weaker sibling effectively requires map knowledge and the ability to locate survivors by sound while the survivors are effectively invisible. I also think the Knight's potential is hindered severely if people focus on just chases instead of macro level disruption and harassment.
Anyway, thanks for giving your opinion. That does make sense that other Killers, such as Bubba, are used differently since they're perceived as strong while the Knight is perceived as too weak. I hope the buffs do something to alter that perception and make a non-boring playstyle more accessible and increase the current dismal level of popularity he seems to have.
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@Krazzik said:
Whether tunneling is required or not, it's the easiest way to gain control of the game as killer and is generally the most efficient way to win regardless of killer, regardless of perks, regardless of map, so it'll always be heavily used by the playerbase.
Knight currently is not a very strong killer, he's not the worst, but he's not very high up there, and his upcoming buffs wont change that. His kit does make him strong at defending an area, and with 3-gen builds as strong as they are thesedays, and with his kit not being -that- strong in chase, it's no surprise he's so commonly found 3-genning.
Your first paragraph I agree with. Strategically, and if you pick the weakest link as opposed to picking the strongest, it is 100% the most optimal way to maximize your chances. I understand that and don't care about being tunneled when I get tunneled.
My curiosity was why is it so incredibly common with Knight as opposed to other Killers. For example, Bubba's kit is good at camping but only a minority of the Bubbas I versus camp. Virtually every Knight 3 gens and/or tunnels and camps which is why I was asking if people have seen a variety of playstyles or if nearly every Knight does that and, if so, why? Your second paragraph holds part of the answer, in my opinion, but I see very little divergence in playstyles with Knight.
In your opinion, do you think the new buffs will change that?
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@Emeal said:
That Ash first chase was the most pathetic match I have seen in a while.
They don't even run from Nowhere to Hide. they just crouch behind things like beginners.
OK.
And that's an example of regular play. After winning as many games as I have as Knight I should be at the softcap. I virtually always get games like this ergo unless the softcap is raised (which I don't want as I don't want insane queue times) it is not necessary to camp, tunnel or 3 gen from the start with multiple regression perks. I'm not going to get tournament level teams commonly in regular play.
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@Krazzik said:
You can't really get any decent data from a single game. Anyone can play any killer on any map with any build and -can- do well. It doesn't mean anything.
Sorry but this thread seems a little pointless.
Thanks for the input but I still disagree. The reason why I bring it up is this is representative of my Knight play from about two weeks after release to now. I can take a summary of all my games over the next month or two (and will if anyone indicates they're interested enough to read it) but, unless there's a drastic change, I don't see any reason why the next 100 games will be different from the previous 100 or so. I didn't even play that well that match in comparison to my good games. For that reason, I do think it means something.
To be honest, based off of my experiences as Killer, I agree with @ScottJund when he did a video stating that tunneling and camping is unnecessary in the current state of the game in regular matches (with the reservation a future change could change things).
I'm asking specifically about the Knight since, when playing solo queue, I haven't seen anyone play him other than camp, tunnel and/or 3 gen from the start with triple or quad regression perks. I don't think the Knight has to be played like that to win but there is obviously an overwhelming perception you have to do that as the Knight to win but I disagree.
It's not like other Killers where, yeah, I see tunnelers and campers but not everytime (as an example I see nicer Bubbas more often than facecamping Bubbas). I see camping and tunneling Knights virtually everytime. Is my experience atypical or is what I've seen normal for current Knight play as opposed to how I play Knight?
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No opinions? I said I don't think camping, tunneling or running more than one regression perk is 100% necessary for the Knight to have success in regular play and that other playstyles are possible and nobody has an opinion either agreeing, disagreeing or otherwise?
@StarLost I'm pinging you simply because you had a thread about how to use the Knight effectively so you may find this interesting because I think we both started Dbd at close to the same time. I'm not on my A-game, more like my C-game because I just took a break over the holidays and I was tired, but you might find the video a more interesting approach to playing Knight.
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@TheSubstitute said:
Most recent match summary
Map: Borgo (Shattered Square)
Results: 3K + 1 Hatch escape
Gens Left At Very End: 2
First Survivor Killed At: Hook Eight
Build: Discordance, Nowhere to Hide, Floods of Rage, Call of Brine
The reason I'm curious is because I see practically every Knight camp survivors or just 3 gen from the start and I don't. I don't think it's necessary, or at least I don't find it necessary to camp survivors, as the Knight to get effective results in regular play (I don't do tournaments so I'm not commenting on those) and that there are other other playstyles available.
I did record a video showing my most recent game. I was tired, clunky and Borgo is typically my worst map to play on as I've played it the least and I made mistakes but, as you can see in the video, I deliberately switched targets, gave the survivors time to reset and still got a 3K with the survivors struggling to get gens done with only one gen regression perk and 3 info perks.
I know the survivors aren't on the level of Hens but the worst you can say is that they were competent and I don't know what MMR I'm at of course but, from the amount of wins I've had, I'm at a decent level.
Is it a just this is my playstyle thing or why don't I see more Knights playing in a similar fashion to what I did? If you have any questions as to why I did what I did I'm more than happy to answer and please feel free to give your opinion on my question (but if you're going to comment on how I play Knight please watch the video at first at least and not just give an assumption). Also, I'm not a streamer or content creator so I apologize for the fact there's no editing, summaries or commentary in the video.
I just posted something about an hour ago about how you can run Knight with one gen regression perk and see success in regular play if you want to read it.
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Well, there are the challenges to hit a survivor with your weapon while the survivor is exposed. It could be fun and nothing says Exposed actually had to be useful.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312043#Comment_3312043
Was the monster really that weak? We wanted to try VHS but no one else wanted to so we never really saw it.
I'll agree with @Stabby_Widdershins and go a little bit more into detail into what was said. Yes, Monster is weak in VHS and there is no realistic counterplay in a lot of situations. If Teens group up in a wide open space, as an example, one of the Monsters (WART) literally has no way to get them as the weapons will slow WART, break the armor, and then Banish WART. There is also a Rift mechanism which has a good purpose but essentially puts the Monster into a no win situation if the Teens, who have voice comms in game, coordinate and use it to ambush the Monster
The tracking is also horrible for new players as it is nearly entirely audio based. I'm able to use it but that's only because I played a lot of Spirit but without MDR so I'm used to hearing for footsteps. Beginning me in DbD who had to learn how to use scratch marks or anyone with an auditory impairment would be completely lost. Also, as soon as you hit a Teen you look up so you lose sight of the Teen.
Monster sounds like a backfiring dump truck with no stealth options while Teens can commonly solo you just by being silent and waiting for you to walk by. Any weapon hits that aren't one shots, which just banish you outright, slow you down enough that with multiple weapons even if you catch a Teen out of position the Teen by briefly firing, taking two steps back, repeating they can turn a hit the Monster should have had into a loss for the Monster.
These are some of the major issues that remain. It was worse than what I described for Monster before but when any issues were brought up people would point at Dowsey when he played it or TricksterShadow's performance and say but see! Pointing out that the average video game user wasn't going to spend the hours necessary to be as good as Dowsey or TricksterShadow at a video game but would just play something else was not accepted by the majority of the community or the dev team because, hey, the very top players can do well so everything is okay.
The game does have a lot of potential and I still play it occasionally and provide feedback but it does need major changes for it to catch on. If you want to try it out feel free but as the only regular players left are either the diehard Monster players who are amazingly good or really good Teens but with at least the chance of getting a newer type Teen in the group so don't be surprised if you get stomped non-stop. It can be really stressful too. As an example, during pre 6.1 DH and just recently released CoH I would log in as a Killer on DbD (and mainly Clown) to destress from playing Monster in VHS. I'm hoping major changes come soon as it does have a lot of potential to be a really good game but Monster has to be fixed before it has real growth potential. The attitude seems to have shifted to trying out new things for Monster because the reality is kind of bleak for player retention so that might prompt some changes of substance.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311037#Comment_3311037
VHS was having much deeper problems than balancing for competitive play. They were hacked numerous times. The other ones I am not as familiar with. Either way, most asyms are small, indie games. Those type of games don’t always last. I sincerely doubt it’s due to balancing issues.
Sorry for bringing up such a minor point but I wanted to bring up something from VHS as I was in the closed beta there both before and after the hacks.
The hacks did very little to hurt VHS. It still came out with over 6,000 players playing at the same time (so probably over 10,000 or 20,000 players as a base) even with no advertising and lost over 95% of the players in a short time frame. It lost them due to balancing for the top. One of the main issues the game has is that Monster is weak and there are situations a Monster can be put in with a coordinated group where there is literally no counterplay. When it was pointed out that new players to Monster would not continue in the role if Monster remained as unengaging and weak as it is the devs and Teen mains pointed to the top Monster players who did really well, said that showed the role was fine, and ignored all the advice to the contrary.
With the Monster role being how it was that led to a lack of Monster players which then increased queue times to unbearable amounts which caused all but the most die-hard players to stop playing, etc until the game it got into the state it was in.
I know the devs had advance notice this was coming as when I was in the closed beta I accurately predicted and told the devs that the situation VHS is in now would happen if Monster was balanced around only top tier players and I wasn't the only person saying this.
The hacks didn't help and there was a lack of advertising (but the lack of advertising may be a good thing if the problems with VHS get ironed out as, once the game is long term sustainable, as new players are easier to retain than ones who already tried but disliked it) but those were, from my experience and time involved in the game, lesser factors. The playerbase numbers upon Early Access were pretty healthy.
The root cause why it hasn't been successful was because Monster was balanced for the top and being a new Monster player was too unforgiving, harsh and unfun. Most new players, after pointing this out, would receive torrents of 'just get gud' posts instead of their concerns being heard and understandably wouldn't stick around on the off chance that they might have fun later. There have been minor improvements since but still not anything that would make it new player friendly enough in my opinion to retain new Monster player. However, the hacks didn't really hurt the playerbase at all; there was no discernible difference in the playerbase because of the hacks and VHS had, upon Early Access release, a decent sized playerbase.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310654#Comment_3310654
Hmm.
Okay, a few things.
- Dead Hard was used at triple, if not quadruple the rate that Eruption is used. It was left like this for years. I don't see why there's such a massive rush to fix Eruption (yes, I'm being partially facetious, just making a point).
- Part of why Eruption is so common right now is because gen regression perks took a hefty nerf in 6.1.0, and the added gen time has melted away with the addition/buffing of some 'do gens faster' perks, leading to honestly probably faster gens than I've seen in ages.
- Eruption is...going off the stats we have available right now on Nightlight, not even the most commonly used regression perk. Again - this isn't defining the meta, because it only really shines against solo queue players.
- Increasing regression basically removes all the flavor from the perk, and turns it into a clunky version of PR or Surge. Blocking gens...it's an idea, but I can promise you right now that it won't even slow down the QQ train. Because the core issue people have with the perk is that you need to anticipate when someone's about to go down.
- Pre 6.1 Eruption was garbage. Like...almost Overcharge levels of garbage. It was purely a meme perk.
- It absolutely has not been close to the old DH. It's an annoying perk in solo queue, but it's absolutely not DH - DH had zero reliable counterplay and was used between 70 and 80% of the time at higher MMRs. Eruption, again going off Nightlight (which isn't perfect but does roughly correspond with what I see on top MMR streams) was hovering between 17 and 20% when I last checked.
- Does Eruption need a change? Eh...sure. If only because it'll further illustrate my point about how forum QQ works. Does it need the massive nerf that everyone is calling for? Absolutely not. Will anything short of a massive nerf stop the complaining? Not a chance.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310667#Comment_3310667
...Do they? I enjoy these squads, it's nice to have some interaction with survivors that isn't slam gens/loop/hide in a bush.
Honestly, we need more stuff like that.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310723#Comment_3310723
No.
- Note which gens the killer has kicked.
- If you're in a SWF, get people to call out when to let go.
- If you're in solo queue...firstly, why? Secondly, if you're working on a gen you know has been kicked, let go when you suspect someone is about to go down. I like Empathy, but a lot of folks enjoy Bond. There is a bit of a risk, sure - but this isn't as bad as folks make it out to be.
- If they managed to postpone the chase for that long, you've probably already finished the gen.
I still disagree. I sincerely doubt Nightlight has the actual usage stats but Eruption is the most commonly used gen regression perk I see. However, not changing it because of usage rates or how long it took DH to be changed are bad reasons to not change it. If it creates an increase in effectiveness that is out of line with other gen regression perks it needs to be changed. Either that or up the effectiveness of the arms race by increasing both gen speed and gen regression perks and then balance around that but I'd prefer toning down the outlier.
Increasing regression might turn it into a clunkier version of Surge or PR but those type of perks are going to happen. When I kick a gen I can either remove a scaling amount of progress with Pop, or create good regression for a minute with a skill check with Call, or create terrible regression that scales up to great regression with a skill check with Overcharge. There are only so many things perks can do and eventually ones will step on another's toes anyway. I prefer it being an outright block instead of incapacitation anyway.
However, that as well is still not a good reason to change or not change the perk. Eruption, in its current form, is close to as unhealthy for the game as per 6.1 DH was and that's why it should be changed. I don't care about stopping the QQ train when I post as I consider that a non-factor in most circumstances as well. As an example, Nurse just got her blink attacks changed to special but in two to three months we'll see more QQ about Nurse simply because she plays differently than all other Killers and many people don't like Killers with different counterplay. That wouldn't be a good reason for further nerfs as it ignores the people who enjoy Nurse and it wouldn't be right to change something that affects players solely because of QQ. There will always be QQ but even @Sluzzy made a decent point now and then, mostly by accident and very, very rarely, but it's worth considering QQ to see if there is any validity. Most QQ is just smoke and noise but sometimes you might find a fire and in Eruption's case I believe there is one.
Nearly every argument that was made to give DH it's long justified and awaited nerf can be applied to Eruption. I could be mistaken about its effectiveness but when I used pre 6.1 DH as survivor it felt far more effective than any other exhaustion perk. Eruption post 6.1 feels far more oppressive when I used it as Killer than any other gen regression perk I've used. Unless that's a just me situation, which is a possibility, that is definitely a valid reason to nerf Eruption. It's over tuned and is too effective in comparison to other gen regression perks.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310654#Comment_3310654
Hmm.
Okay, a few things.
- Dead Hard was used at triple, if not quadruple the rate that Eruption is used. It was left like this for years. I don't see why there's such a massive rush to fix Eruption (yes, I'm being partially facetious, just making a point).
- Part of why Eruption is so common right now is because gen regression perks took a hefty nerf in 6.1.0, and the added gen time has melted away with the addition/buffing of some 'do gens faster' perks, leading to honestly probably faster gens than I've seen in ages.
- Eruption is...going off the stats we have available right now on Nightlight, not even the most commonly used regression perk. Again - this isn't defining the meta, because it only really shines against solo queue players.
- Increasing regression basically removes all the flavor from the perk, and turns it into a clunky version of PR or Surge. Blocking gens...it's an idea, but I can promise you right now that it won't even slow down the QQ train. Because the core issue people have with the perk is that you need to anticipate when someone's about to go down.
- Pre 6.1 Eruption was garbage. Like...almost Overcharge levels of garbage. It was purely a meme perk.
- It absolutely has not been close to the old DH. It's an annoying perk in solo queue, but it's absolutely not DH - DH had zero reliable counterplay and was used between 70 and 80% of the time at higher MMRs. Eruption, again going off Nightlight (which isn't perfect but does roughly correspond with what I see on top MMR streams) was hovering between 17 and 20% when I last checked.
- Does Eruption need a change? Eh...sure. If only because it'll further illustrate my point about how forum QQ works. Does it need the massive nerf that everyone is calling for? Absolutely not. Will anything short of a massive nerf stop the complaining? Not a chance.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310667#Comment_3310667
...Do they? I enjoy these squads, it's nice to have some interaction with survivors that isn't slam gens/loop/hide in a bush.
Honestly, we need more stuff like that.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310723#Comment_3310723
No.
- Note which gens the killer has kicked.
- If you're in a SWF, get people to call out when to let go.
- If you're in solo queue...firstly, why? Secondly, if you're working on a gen you know has been kicked, let go when you suspect someone is about to go down. I like Empathy, but a lot of folks enjoy Bond. There is a bit of a risk, sure - but this isn't as bad as folks make it out to be.
- If they managed to postpone the chase for that long, you've probably already finished the gen.
I really doubt Nightlight has the correct
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310557#Comment_3310557
The thing about Nurse (and 'insert x killer thing here') is that at a certain level it's not about balance - it's about the psychology of the game.
I don't know what it is about the survivor role, but people seem to go in expecting to escape, and anything that prevents this is viewed as a problem. And when something on the killer end of things gets viewed as OP, the QQ won't subside until it's removed from the game. Watch this space for 'Nurse nerfs didn't go far enough' threads.
Again - unless you give killers the option not to face SWFs (not going to happen, obviously), balance SWFs differently (also not going to happen, as per BHVR's emphatic statement) or adjust MMR to force SWFs to face more skilled killers than they would have as solos (also not going to happen, as per BHVR's statement) - there is no option but balancing the game around the SWF/killer matchup, even if that negatively impacts the solo queue experience.
That's the least unfair of a bunch of unfair options.
I disagree about Eruption. To draw a comparison, I'll take pre 6.1 Dead Hard which was, as I've stated many times before, an abomination in game balance. Every Killer had to expect it because it was so overtuned practically every survivor ran it and it gave an increase in survivability that statistically outpaced every other exhaustion perk.
That's pretty much the exact same right now with Eruption. It's so overtuned that it is single handedly defining the meta just as pre 6.1 DH did. When I play survivor I am planning for Eruption just like I did with pre 6.1 DH when I would log in as Killer.
There are quite a few suggestions that have been proffered that don't involve gutting the perk such as increase regression while reducing incapacitation or blocking the gens affected instead of incapacitation. Blocking is my preference as a reverse DMS effect would even up the effectiveness among SWFs and solos and, if it can be evened up while being fair to the Killer, why not?
To be honest, I liked pre 6.1 Eruption and quite often ran it as it threw off the survivor's timing. It could have used a buff but what it got was too much in the post 6.1 version.
As it stands right now, Eruption has become almost as bad for the game as pre 6.1 DH was and needs a change. Suggesting that players run Empathy or be in a SWF to counter it is the same thing as the old 'just bait it out' arguments for DH.
While a lot of complaints are just the hey, I want things to be easier for my side variety Eruption isn't. It really needs a change.
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Sloppy, Franklin's, Dragon's Grip, Surge. STBFL would qualify except it's already useless on Nurse. It'll be interesting to see the final result as the only worthwhile perks will be gen regression and aura reading.
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@illNicola said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309256#Comment_3309256
Why that? He didn't say name and surname of people who cheats. He only said the percentage, and he has anything to gain or loose by telling actual data. Why, in your opinion, is it not believable?
A cheater (or cheat developer) is unlikely to have actual verified data from anything beyond their sales and a host of reasons to lie (normalizing cheating, self justifications, increase sales, etc). Also, if they were honest people with integrity to begin with they wouldn't be cheating or developing cheats.
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I think it's kind of silly that Sloppy is harder to use on Nurse now but, to be frank, don't care that Nurse can't use Exposed attacks with Blinks. What I do find concerning is no mention of changes to Eruption. That affects far more players.
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@oxygen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309206#Comment_3309206
Pretty sure it's from an interview a content creator did with a cheater or cheat developer (can't remember). And not too sure if it's something that's considered alright to directly link to on here considering the topic.
Personally I don't exactly think that makes the figure very believable to put it that way.
Because lets be real, a 10% cheater rate would lead to FAR more complaints and reports about running into them than we already have. Especially when the nature of MMR thanks to the softcap means they wouldn't even be quarantined in some sorta cheater-only shadowban bracket above humanly accessible MMR.
Definitely. Also, I wouldn't consider a cheater or cheat developer as a very honest and reliable source.
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I think a good step after changing Eruption is to nuke camping from orbit, see what effect that has on kill rates and make changes accordingly. The game would be more fun and entertaining for the majority on both sides if a 12 hook playstyle were the most feasible option.
For that matter, if they want to nuke tunneling as well, get rid of collision detection on a survivor with OTR active and buff the duration. You want to hang around not touching a gen for 1.5 minutes as an example so you can try to body block me once even though you dont have collision detection? Good luck with that and thank you for throwing the game to me if I'm the Killer and please go to a different lobby if I'm the survivor so I have a chance to escape.
Tunneling and camping is lame for both sides; balancing for a 12 hook playstyle would be better.
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I'm very soft in most of my games. Unless teabagged at a pallet I'll alternate hooks, pull back on the pressure, always leave at least one person to pick up the slugs, and if asked for mercy, I grant it. It's probably because I'm over 2,000 hours now so there is a very strong probability that the survivors I'm matched with are below my experience level so I am not pressed to win most games on the Killers I play the most. My priorities are fun and BP and I view video games as overall trivial in life so not worth being competitive over.
On the lower tier Killers I'm inexperienced with it's harder to win so I'll apply more pressure but won't camp or tunnel unless teabagged.
If I am teabagged and I do camp and tunnel the teabagger out I will 100% say that's exactly what I did. However, if I'm playing suboptimally so that my opponents can have a better game and they BM me for it I feel they 100% deserve it.
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@Paternalpark said:
Just add another generator to each map.
Killer's get their spot to defend but it's not too op.
I always hear- killers need 3 gen/tunneling/camping / slugging to win but if survivors do their objective in a uncoordinated manner then they deserve to lose.
Until deja vu is basekit or the survivors get voicechat you can't argue 3 gens are their fault.
Partially correct in my opinion. 3 gens are definitely the survivors' fault but it does require coordination to solve. One of my highest escape percentage builds is OTR, Prove Thyself, Situational Awareness and Deja Vu. A lot of survivors don't like it because Deja Vu is a 'baby perk' and you can't afford to clown on the Killer as there are no chase perks (and OTR is just anti-tunneling insurance). However, I escape noticeably more with this build.
The other build I had with a high rate of escape is OTR, Potential Energy, Hyperfocus, Stakeout and a Commodious with a map offering to a known 3 gen map. Why that works is maps like RPD can be good for survivors if the 3 gen is busted but, over 80% of the time, I only see survivors work on the safer gens and we get 3 genned.
That is 100% the survivors' (as a group) fault. It is well-known some maps have 3 gens by default and the 3 gen should be busted first. It doesn't matter if the Killer is patrolling it; until that 3 gen is busted there's no chance of escape so bust the 3 gen or die trying.
The issue is that it's hard to coordinate. That part isn't the Survivors fault but it wasn't so hard to beat before until Eruption gave the 25 second Incapacitation. That needs to change.
But 3 gens need to stay. There are less than 10 Killers that would be viable in normal play, not comp play, not high MMR play, just normal play if 3 gens didn't exist. That's not fair or acceptable to change maps from a bad map for most Killers to an automatic loss with virtually no chance for most of the Killer roster which is what would happen if 3 gen were removed.
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Sure if every Killer has the mobility of Nurse and Blight. Otherwise, no. Or we can just fix the gen regression perks that create the problem instead.
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All you need to do is patrol the 3 gen and you'll win most games. Outbreak: Breakout was so painful for that very reason simply because 80% to 90% of my solo games my solo queue teammates would do the safer gens first and ensure victory for the Killer. I eventually got the acheivement by bringing Potential Energy, Hyperfocus, and Stakeout with a Commodious and a BNP and Wire Spool just to get a chance to escape.
As soon as the three gen is busted it becomes, in my opinion, a bit survivor sided but if you hold the 3 gen it's definitely Killer sided. If you're playing Nurse it just stays Killer sided since it takes a long time to get anywhere by foot.
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Generally, as a Killer if I don't get a hit or take out a pallet in 15 to 20 seconds or less I abandon the chase and go back to gens. I run generally one and maximum two gen defense perks (and I don't use Eruption) so spending any longer than that in chase will cost any chance of doing well. If I see a Survivor by a strong loop who's made themselves noticeable I generally ignore them as I'm not going to spend a minute chasing them while gens go uncontested.
People have to pick what they prefer. You can have either:
(a) A short time in chase; or
(b) Oppressive level of gen regression; or
(c) Tunneling and camping.
Without at least one of the above the Killer will lose. Personally I'd rather face (a) when I play Survivor so I try to do that as Killer as well.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3302171#Comment_3302171
Ah yes, the ol 'Survivors think this Killer is OP, therefore no one should be able to use her' idea. Because only Survivor opinion matters when it comes to balance, I guess.
Coupled with a large amount of insults targeting anyone who disagrees and, as I've said in other posts, the ol' 'Crutch!' warcry.
Yes, because Nurse is easy to learn and is an automatic win yet, somehow, her kill rates are not out of sync with the rest if the Killer roster. The posters who are obsessed about Nurse somehow can't see the contradiction in this. If she's easy to learn and an automatic win why aren't her kill rates and pick rates higher?
These contradictory opinions being held should be enough to show that it's a personally held bias instead of an actual argument. The real reason why Nurse doesn't get nerfed is the same reason why new DH doesn't get nerfed; she was nerfed before, is still strong, but not strong enough to either warrant further nerfs and/or the cumulative data doesn't show any problems that warrant priority over more pressing issues.
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Honestly, I think that if there are two survivors left then AFK crows should start to accrue if a gen isn't touched within a reasonable time frame to eliminate survivors holding the game hostage. If there's more than 1 gen left and only two survivors you've already lost more than 95% of the time. There is no winning. Get what BP you can from gens and move on.
As a side note, why is it there are some people who will DC or give up on hook because 'there's no point' when the match is too early to tell and then will stall out the game as much as possible and hide to get the other survivor killed so as to get hatch when there is actually no chance of winning? Selfishness on both counts?
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@burt0r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3302373#Comment_3302373
I would urge you to notice the date on the posts and maybe not to Necro 3month+ long dead threads, which gets frowned upon on these forums.
The people in those threads have left the discussion way behind them.
And if the topic is still relevant it is better to open a new one.
But then I would lose the opportunity to post this.
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With the shimmer I can generally see Wraith coming from about 3 to 5 metres away and the snarls generally give me advance warning. It's more of a cloaking thing than actual invisibility.
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@notclaudette said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301363#Comment_3301363
oni main of 950 hours, sorry about the post. made it after a bully squad anti-hooked me. sorry if i uopset anyone. I only tunnel when i feel its necessary, most of the time i try to 2 hook everyone before i go for kills.
Okay, I was just asking since if you were new I'd offer some advice to help alleviate your frustration. At one point I felt similar to how you felt as well and was considering quitting.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
Probably unpopular opinion but i feel that the 4% self unhook should just be removed
Rework slippery meat and only allow self unhooks when they can't fail
It's just an outdated mechanic that's being used now to ragequit without penalty. I feel a lot more survivors would try harder if quiting wasen't this easy
I don't think it's unpopular at all. Either remove it entirely or give the survivor a self unhook attempt that doesn't cause a reduction in the time on hook; I personally don't care which. Then, remove wiggle checks from second stage or make it so a successful wiggle check adds 5 seconds to the timer as an anti-camping measure with a maximum of possibly 15 to 20 seconds added. The second options I presented would probably be the easiest to sell as it's a small buff to survivors and gives more incentives to sticking around but I'm good with the first since anybody who isn't a terrible team player shouldn't be stuck with a rage quitting teammate.
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There are only two builds with hexes where I get use out of them (other than Plaything/Penti) and only one of those is more than entertainment.
That's DH, Undying, Haunted Grounds, and either Retribution or Thrill of the Hunt. Generally, I'll lose all hexes someways into the match but, by then, the survivors are hurt too badly to have a good chance of recovering.
It's not a given but I also get entertainment value from Undying, Haunted Grounds, Retribution and Thrill of the Hunt. It's sporadic value and mainly just used for the memes but it's hilarious to defend the totems against survivors that are sure it's something nasty that needs to be cleansed when it's Haunted Grounds.
Other than Devour Hope, though, there are no hex perks that are worth taking the Undying and Haunted Grounds you need as a minimum for ensuring your hexes last more than a minute or two.
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Which Killer are you playing? Are you camping and tunneling? And roughly how many hours have you played Killer for?
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I wasn't leaving a post; that was my phone's fault for anyone who was curious why this was previously a blank post.
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@Firellius said:
A little buff that absolutely won't help swiffers is showing survivor load-outs to other survivors. Let other solo queue folks know that I'm running a healing build with Desperate Measures, Botany, and that Yoichi perk that makes my aura show up to injured survivors, so that they know what that info means and what they need to do if they're injured.
It'd at least -help-, somewhat.
They did that on Mobile when I tried it out (probably still do) and it was great. It would also help non-meta builds like Prove Thyself, Deja Vu and Situational Awareness. I do that occasionally and I only get a second person working with me on the three gen maybe once every 5 games. In a SWF ideally the looper would be running the Killer while another survivor or two would be on the gens with me ensuring a wide space out for the last couple of gens instead of my other random teammates getting us three genned.
It would also be such a huge help with Kinship, Deliverance, etc.
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And with the introduction of action icons that let you see what your teammates are doing a million Claudette and Dwight mains screamed in unison (even though the locker muffled the scream).
Glad to see it's close; this is a great buff for solo queue.
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Survivors DCing and ragequitting. I purposely avoid camping and alternate hooks on survivors. Kills almost never occur before the 5th hook and generally start happening on the 7th and 8th hook. I still see ragequitting and DCing. The whole 'people DC because of camping and tunneling!' argument is BS. I've had DCs on games where I wanted to farm since the survivors brought flans or streamers and I wasn't going to kill anyone.
The delta between the weakest and strongest Killers is too large. Some Killers really need buffs and QoL updates.
It may seem odd here but solo queue icons. They're coming but I want them sooner so the impact on Killers and the subsequent rebalancing can happen.
I used to find it annoying when survivors try to BM after a match where I took it easy on them, gave Hatch, etc but now I just laugh. If your game sense and/or level of overall intelligence is so poor you can't figure out I took it easy you're not intelligent enough to get annoyed by.
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@Audiophile said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296114#Comment_3296114
Really? Wow. You should tell that to everyone camping with him. I guess the memo didn’t get to you….
It's a complete waste of time to use the Guards to camp unless the Knight is facecamping. Run to hook, let Guard notice you, unhook while Guard is setting standard, Guard despawns. It only works on survivors who can't be bothered to learn the basics of a Killer's power.