TheCrookedMan
TheCrookedMan
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@Wubsyy__ said:
Do it u wont
LOL Best comment here
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@Mringasa said:
Any game with a challenge is competitive, even Super Mario Brothers (Speed runners). Doesn't mean they aren't casual as well. A game like DbD draws from both crowds and can rightly be called a casual competitive game.
It might not be professional able, needs balanced better and numerous other things before it can be a professional sport, but tournaments and things like Twitch Challenges exist to let players compete against each other. There's also the 1v4 nature of the game that is competitive.
It draws more from the casual crowd though, imo at least. Most people I play with/against are looking for a fun match within the rules of the game. They want to win, but they don't go sweaty tryhard like you would if you are competing for a prize.
I agree with you the most
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@Nobsyde said:
Do you know how Super Smash Bros works? There's casual/party and ranked games - in casual items are allowed to spawn and all stages, no matter how messy, are in rotation, while in ranked there are no items and only omega stages are in (meaning, they are basically all the same plain field).
In tournaments then there are certain rules in place, but still: no silly stages and no items.
One can play SSB competitively (*it's not competative, I don't know why you write it like that every time) even in casual mode, because it's a competition all the same where someone wins and someone loses (duh!), but if you really want to understand which player is better, you have to go in ranked or, better, play tournaments with artificially made rules.
In DbD there's not this separation. Items are allowed (keys, mori, add-on, BNP, commodius...), silly stages are allowed (and that's not simply the unbalanced maps, it's every map due to heavy rng in tiles, totem spawns, items in chests etc.), swf is allowed (where the game is currently not balanced against it).
...even artificially made rules like survivors can't use items, Claudette is banned, no add-ons wouldn't be enough to make the game a predominantly competitive one, since right now you can't choose a certain configuration of map, and RNG can change everything.
But that's the good of DbD: ever changing, silly, unpredictable, casual :).
You take that out, it would become evident how flawed the game is, competitively speaking: as a survivor rush generators, stay separated and learn the optimal path for every pallet / window and correctly connect the tiles for every map (which wouldn't be random, mind you) - as a killer master Nurse or Spirit, and that's it. I'm uninstalling now :).
Comparing Smash to Dead by Daylight is comparing apples to broccoli. One is a fighting game and the other is an asymmetrical horror game not defined by wave dashing, flying slams or blocks. What makes a fighting game Competative and what makes a game like dead by Daylight are whole different. Items in to compensate for a lack of power they have that the killer has however being a more limited resource.
And the thing is you're not supposed to take any of that out save for maybe Moris and Keys. It's more like WOW or LOL, where you are versing builds to fit in a team rather than just bare bones characters.
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@Mew said:
dbd is a party like game that can be somewhat competitive, there’s just too much rng for the game to be purely competitive
I'd agree, but that's what perks and add ons are for to help levy this, don't you agree?
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@Galklife said:
@TheCrookedMan if dbd isnt casual game but competitive answer me those questions:
1) how there are survivors with 100h in red ranks (and those 100h players are bad af)
2) how there are survivors with 2k+ hours in rank 17 (without deranking on purpose)
3) why the same map can have twice more pallets than same map generated in next game
4) why 4men swf is allowed
5) killer can prep agains survs but survs cant prep vs killer
6) show me "pro player" that lives only from money from dbd tournament (not streaming)
7) why monthly rank reset exist (its existing is better for casual players) and i know it was nerfed but you know how much comminity is against it
8) how fair are killers red add ons (because most sweaty i mean "competitive" killers are using best possible add ons, and if you assume this game is competitive they should get better without them so they can use it in tournaments KEKW)
9) why survs soloQ in red ranks is such a mess ( its so hard to find good survivor)
there is maybe 5% of playersbase that thinks this game can or could be competitive, and this % is too small to work with, we cant even have other gamemode because playerbase is too small xd
1.) That depends on the person, and you'd have to show me statistics for this.
2.) Rank reset while taking a step back from the game will bring you down. And again statistics. You have to factoring in if the derank wasn't the intention or not. It may very from person to person.
3.) That's something to ask the devs.
4.) Because it's commercial suicide if it didn't exist. The game would suffer a lot more if people couldn't play with each other. That doesn't mean it's not broken. It's so broken that the devs literally have to balance around it.
5.) They can ONLY see items. No add ons and no perks. Plus it's 1 v 4 you can aspect the killer to get more advantages like this.
6.) As I said before, that has to do if people WANT to be competitive. It's not about how far people want to go it's about how far they are willing to go. Besides if you sell apples, but people don't want your apples it's still an apple.
7.) I don't know how this contributed to the discussion but my guess would be to give you something to work towards if you come back from quitting. That's something you'd have to ask the devs.
8.) False. Terribly false. Being Competative means using your BEST resources. Being Competative isn't about getting better its about being as good as you can get. It assumes that you and you're opponent are on equal skill, so you want to up your chances of winning with such add ons, for both killers and survivors. Also calling someone sweaty because they want to win more than you do is immature.
9.) Because there aren't a lot of killers. As far as fun goes losing as a killer is a lot more miserable than losing as survivor.
Also where'd you get those stats at the end?
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@[Deleted User] said:
A lot of people are saying the skill cap is low, which I disagree with. I think the more correct answer is that the necessary skill floor to achieve victory against a similar ranked opponent is too low. A player isn't necessarily bad because they are immediately dropping pallets at red ranks. It just means they probably know the maps are poorly conceived and there are too many safe resources, thus allowing them to win with suboptimal play and no consequences of poor resource management.
That's only true for survivors
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@yoi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/944716#Comment_944716
is casUUUUUUUl this game will never ever be competitive, dont get me wrong if i hurted the feelings of someone with 7k hours thinking he is the real ######### at the game, is casul is not a competitive game.
Your being an ass and lashing out because "I'm right I don't need to prove it but I just know it." Sure buddy.
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@Unicorn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/944955#Comment_944955
@28_stabs Lets stop THIS in 2020. Theres always that one post that steers way off track of the topic trying to compensate "Well then nerf this/that." Why not just open your own thread mentioning this? Or better yet, give actual feedback to OP about why tunneling and camping is a legit strategy and not a penalty.
Truth
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@ALostPuppy said:
To say it's competitive is also asinine. There's a bit of both in dbd, it's a lot like smash.
I wish I had seen this post sooner. Because a game can be very competitive doesn't mean it can't be casual either especially with how creative you can get in DBD. It's not like a graph where you get Comp on one side and casual on the other.
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@arslaN said:
It's not a casual game but it's definitely not a competitive game either. I can't call a game with this much RNG and broken/op stuff along with a meaningless ranking system competitive.
The ranking system is not meaningless. If it was people wouldn't be upset about how broken it is, and getting low ranks that aren't as good. Why are people ignoring this point?
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@Awakey said:
This game is competitive? Funny.
Wanna see an example of a real competitive game? Overwatch. That's competitive done right.
This game is nowhere near that. It's like 80/20 in favor of casual.
It doesn't matter if you believe it is done right or it. What matters is how far you can take it by being Competative. Just because you or anyone else doesn't want to go far is irrelevant. People can and people do. THAT'S what matters.
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@Saitamfed said:
DBD is not competitive... "Someone wins and someone loses" that happens in every game, wich means there is competence, but competence doesn't mean competitive.
Not in Co-op. In Co-op and PVR everyone wins. Working with each other towards the same goal rather than against, where they compete for victory.
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@ThisLadyRightHere said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/944033#Comment_944033
Are you butthurt? I’m must of hurt your feeling in order for you to do that to me. Lol 😂
Nah that's when I just want to chill and be casual :}
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@[Deleted User] said:
There are tournaments for DbD sure, but why should anyone care? I think there's a reason why the tournament scene hasn't grown much at all over the past 2 years, and I think it's because the vast majority of the playerbase just isn't interested in treating DbD as an eSports/tournament ready game. And I believe that's best for the health of the health of the game, honestly.
Competitive asym just doesn't make any sense (to me, at least)...pretty much every sport ever is based on both teams being equal in terms of objective and required skillsets. That's not the case in DbD. I suppose DbD tournaments have a "best of" system but I still think there's too much RNG (and admittedly, too many random bugs with most patches) for the tournament scene to be seen as anything other than a paid hobby.
Anyways, Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays everyone.
Merry Christmas to you too!!
The Competative nature of the game isn't judged by how many people are Competative but how far they can take it. It's judged by how little skill it takes to get defeat someone of hire skill. If this didn't matter, then the Matchmaking from different ranks wouldn't matter, and no one would complain, nor would they have gotten rid of Survivors seeing each other's ranks.
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@ThisLadyRightHere said:
This title make me laugh. If you really think this game is competitive you are the type I play I wish to not get into my lobby. You’re too sweaty for me go get a towel and wipe your head off. DBD is not meant to be competitive, but people who are tryhards make it seem like a competitive game. Just because it’s a P vP doesn’t necessarily make it competitive. This game is absolutely casual ASF if people didn’t take it so seriously.
I’m going in with Iron Grasp, Agitation, Mad Grit, and STBFL on Ghostface...
*Whew* Time to be very competitive by tunneling and camping just to “win” this game with a meme build 🤏🏻😎
You're the type of person I tunnel and slug and then T-Bag for the bleed out. And then let everyone else escape.
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@oxygen said:
It's inherently competitive as it's a game with multiple players with winners and losers.
It's not what some people associate with the term within gaming nowadays. To some, a "competitive game" refers to a game built with professional esports in mind, which is not the case for DBD. It's competitive, but not in the "same way" as something like CS:GO, Overwatch or League of Legends.
I agree but how popular a game is is NOT an accurate indicator on how competitive a game is.
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@Tisfine said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/943993#Comment_943993
Guess you miss the point.
I did, you got me 👉😎👉
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@Scorp721 said:
"A game is as competitive as a player can make it." And when people chose to play to have fun regardless of escaping or getting kills I would call that casual would you not.
There are a lot of people that don't take this game very seriously and play just for fun but they're all overshadowed by ghost stories of only encountering 4 man SWF teams and killers with ebony moris.
Any Competative game can be played casually. When I've had a bad match I stop caring, play as Ghostface, put on his crouch speed add ons, and chase the survivors while T-Bagging them, go into T-Bag competitions (those can get pretty heated), and run right up to them just T-Bagging and not hitting them. Being casual doesn't necessarily mean you don't care about winning to me its about how low of a skill can you be and still win. Not caring about escaping or sacrifices just means you don't care.
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@Nobsyde said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/943990#Comment_943990
That’s exactly the reason why I’m not going to argue with you. You see a discussion as a competition (“...they don’t win many arguments...”), while for me it is an exchange of opinions and ideas.
So, again, think what you want, you win ;)
I made a post saying DBD is not casual. You made a post refuting that idea. I defended it. You went into a thread where I made a post stating that DBD is casual, and when I backed up my point when you tried to get semantical and it didn't go in your favor you opt out, which shows that you weren't only trying to argue you were doing so in bad faith.
And I guess you really do know when something is obvious. I did win 😏👍
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@Tisfine said:
Skill cap so low that every time I play as Survivor in red ranks. Everyone only knows how to drop the pallet immediately.
No because it's not even wise to always drop the pallet immediately. Especially if it's on loops that can be ran before dropping the pallet for optimal time wasting.
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@Nobsyde said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/943983#Comment_943983
every time someone tries to use the dictionary to explain himself I always see something is amiss.
I honestly don’t have the patience to argue the obvious on Christmas, think whatever you want. DbD will still remain a casual game nevertheless :).
You attempt to argue semantics with me and then say what you believe is the obvious truth. Everytime someone attempts to argue semantics with me I suggest they don't win many arguments in general.
Its STILL not casual, Merry Christmas :)
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@Nobsyde said:
Fighting games with lower skill cap than DbD? Like which one?
I wanted to say all of them (O_O). But on further thinking about it, it's not a fair comparison because this is also a teamgame with different mechanics. But in terms of how Competative, fighting games are a lot more Competative than DBD because it's 1v1.
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@Nobsyde said:
DbD is competitive in the sense that competition is inherent in the game, but it is not in the accepted e.sport term.
You can try to play it as if it were, but you’ll just make a fool out of yourself.
noun: esport
a multiplayer video game played competitively for spectators, typically by professional gamers.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/categories/tournaments
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@ZoneDymo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/943944#Comment_943944
Call of Duty, imo, is far more casual, learn the map, shoot, die? RESPAWN and go again, very ez play away game.
I experience games like CoD, BF, L4D (versus), as a lot more casual.
There are a lot of ways to win in DBD and a lot of ways to lose. The game is very punishing, where a single mistake can cost you the whole match. And it's very momentum based, which I think really isn't good for the games health. At one point you lose the whole match. You made your mistake and you know it's nigh impossible to come back from it, but you gotta keep playing anyways. The skill cap for this game is higher than most fighting games I play.
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@Raptorrotas said:
I especially laughed hard when someone namedropped Mario Party as casual game to compare Dbd to... You know, the game people injured their hands for to win the rotation minigames. Nintedo issues protection gloves for that reason.
Dbd is a competetive game, there are people competeing against each other, duh. Jusbecause some people dont play to win (thus hindering others~) doesnt mean its casual.
I agree 100
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@ABannedCat said:
Because its a party game, not a competive horror game.
This game is not casual at all.
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@gantes said:
Spirit remained in her busted state for over a year.
Nurse remained in busted for over 2 years.
No, they're not fast to nerf anything. The only fast nerf they gave for a killer was Oni, and guess what, they also buffed Ghostface extremely fast when he was garbage in the PTB. The devs are getting faster with balance changes in general and that's a good thing.
Gotta drop some facts to see if the echo chamber gets a bit quieter, because oh boy, this ######### gets old fast.
Nurse basekit is STILL utterly broken. But yuh know. All the things you stated. I'm just gonna do like the rest and pretend that I didn't see them, and only listen to the people who will nod and agree with me.
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@Eye66 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/931225#Comment_931225
Survivor "fun" means "escape without getting hooked once" these days and that's the direction everything's going
@Eye66 said:
"He was annoying to play against" as the motivation 100% tanks any confidence that the sechanges will be good for Doctor. He's my favorite original killer but this sounds like such a hard nerf, especially with that design philosophy. And 60 seconds is backbreaking. Even if it tests poorly in ptb there's no reason to believe they won't ignore the data and ship it like they did to Nurse. I want to believe in the devs again but they're working so hard to make sure I can't trust them
Both of these comments are both unrealistically hopeless
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/110377/camping
The solution to camping is to do gens and leave. Cuck them of their pip.
If survivors didn't make camping effective, it would be a lot less frequent.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/894706#Comment_894706
Do you think it's fun for killers to have to chase you around infinite amounts of safe loops and pallets?
This mindset that killers and survivors owe eachother a good time is asinine. It's up to you to have fun. It's not up the the opposition to make it fun for you. Play to win.
The last part is exactly why this game just CAN'T be casual. It just can't be.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/928051#Comment_928051
Only speaking from personal experience here, but the vast majority of the time, I feel like they're fair. I don't run any slowdown perks and I tend to do just fine. Sometimes I'll mess up and have a bad game, but that's not a game problem, that's a me problem.
That's not to say that there's no time where they ever go to fast with nothing you can do about it, but using videos where someone had a bad match as evidence doesn't really help your case. The tricky part is how do you prevent them from going too fast on those rare occasions without slowing them down the rest of the time?
Thank you for your input. Much appreciated, friend.
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@WinterRitual said:
I'm going to need to keep an eye on any DC penalties. I play on PS4 and in around one in three games I get the message, "An error occurred in the following application. CE-34878-0". Meaning that I may need to accept being punished through no fault of my own and hope that the punishments aren't too harsh.
You're good. Those types of DCs aren't treated the same iirc. The disconnect sound will happen without the noise
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@Johnny_XMan said:
The only thing that these type of videos show is that many if not most of the players asking for gen speed to be slowed down or a “secondary objective” is that you want more time to correct your mistakes and at the cost of a survivor out-performing you no longer being a thing.
Also, slowing down gens would also benefit campers who clearly want to play the game in a way where it is just to annoy survivors (i.e. Not chasing, don’t care about emblem points). Because only focusing on gens is the direct counter to camping.
Also something I want to add correcting your mistakes is the reason I think slowdowns, BT, Ruin, NOED, and DS are not only fine, but absolutely necessary. This game is based around snowballing into a sure win for both sides where the opposing side can feel completely helpless and that's just really no fun. At some point you've won the game and everything afterwards is just kicking a man while he's down. At worst, these perks and the like are tools that can be used to further an already sure victory.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
The only thing that these type of videos show is that many if not most of the players asking for gen speed to be slowed down or a “secondary objective” is that you want more time to correct your mistakes and at the cost of a survivor out-performing you no longer being a thing.
Also, slowing down gens would also benefit campers who clearly want to play the game in a way where it is just to annoy survivors (i.e. Not chasing, don’t care about emblem points). Because only focusing on gens is the direct counter to camping.
The people who want a secondary objective are normally survivors who would rather do something else than repair a generator for 80 seconds.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/927526#Comment_927526
Downing somebody so the survivors have to leave the gen and go save would be a good start.
It seems apparent to me that you are fine with the current rate that generators can be done. If that's the case, and you and the devs believe this, then that's fine, I'll put my faith into you guys and further attempt to hone my own skills to deal with it. But can I ask what's your in depth opinion on the matter. I think it would do myself, and the other large portion of the community who believe this is an issue some good if you would get into the thought process behind it, and get into why you believe it's fair.
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@nos4a2 said:
Do killers get penalized for slugging now?
Nope and they won't be, other than slugging in and of itself is a risky move.
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The most infuriating thing is when survivors call you bad but you killed them. Imagine being beaten by a person who's "bad". Doesn't make you look like a skilled player. And then they'll come up with excuses to justify their loss.
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I watched a bunch of DBD beforehand, so at rank 20 on killer I easily wrekt people
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You right tho. Not that it should be nerfed but if you get good with No Mither, you pretty much make a lot of killers stuff pointless 🤔
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Only NOED
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/921688#Comment_921688
Because ruin is already a crutch perk?
The speed that gens can get done is a crutch within itself
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@Endstille said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/922878#Comment_922878
No they are not and that is the problem, the devs do not even realize it is an issue at all. Peanits stated most are just goofing around with friends, it is like saying, omega nurse/ 5blink nurse is okay cause most nurse players are bad. No it isn't ok.
Pls understand i dont want SWF to be removed but balance has to change. They have to start to change ranking system for survivors so the bad players will actually be in the lower ranks and not in the red ranks. It is so baffling to see people in this game in the highest ranking who literally have no clue at all.
When this has happened, they need to collect alot of data. They should release that to the community without this bs deceiving "red ranks matches" when it just contains a red rank killer at the start.
The devs are buffing solo survivor to SWF level and then buffing killers to that level so they have the tools to deal with both.
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The devs are addressing this issue
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@Usui said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/918408#Comment_918408
Cool then by this logic, stop telling survivors to forcefully run iron will to deal with spirit. Smiley Face
He has never said this. What you are doing is a fallacy to appeal to hypocrisy, except far worse because it's projecting views he doesn't even have.
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Good._.
Stay clueless
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Ghostface. No other reason than because he can T-Bag. I T-Bag whenever I make a play on a survivor to rub salt in the wound. When I down them and when I get them on a hook.
"DOESN'T FEEL SK GREAT DOES IT????"
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@GodDamn_Angela said:
" i'll be playing killer and waiting 30 minutes for a game againt people 6 ranks higher than me."
wat
Also: "i always knew in the back of my mind playing survivor that it's killer favoured in terms of what counts as a hit and what doesnt but its really making me mad after 250 hours."
At least something is Killer sided. And this isn't even really a thing on console.
Yes. It is.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/909675#Comment_909675
Now, we also shouldn't dismiss that some ridiculously coordinated SWF teams are just that - ridiculously coordinated and obviously the game isn't balanced for that...but 90% of SWF teams are just people playing and having fun with their friends. Worst case scenario, they told their friend where Ruin was, or if you were camping. Big deal, lol. Ruin never lasts long anyway, and a huge amount of people run Kindred regardless.
I like the direction the devs are taking the SWF and I think balancing everything around it was the best choice, but I HATE this justification. Is that supposed to make me or anyone else who has to go against SWF feel better? @The_Second_Coming said it best this game, at it's current state, was not balanced for this which makes it broken. Because people are using a broken feature for fun, I'm supposed to be okay with it?
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@Rin_is_my_waifu said:
That's why I always buy things with shards
Instead of wasting money you've wasted time
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@BunnyTheHutt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/913429#Comment_913429
Using consistency as a reason doesn't pan out when killers like Wraith and Nurse's M1 from their abilities still count as M1 hits, so why was Legion the one that got the nerf? Even still, the reason "it caused too much confusion" is weak since it was pretty obvious why Expose didn't work on Legion's Frenzy. And the buffs he did get do not outway the horrible nerfs too his M1 and the massive buff too Deep Wound. Legion is considered worse then Bubba by the majority of the community, and the fact people have been begging for Legion buffs only for him too be nerfed is silly.
Nurse's addons did need a rework, no one is arguing that fact, but the horrible nerfs too the basekit are my problem. The fact they ignored the community completely, then nerfed her most used addons on the PTB too live and have never touched her since, even when people wanted her reverted.
Onis' flick was never a bug. It was on the PTB, then they nerfed it when it went live, and are now saying it's a "bug." Why would you nerf a mechanic you were never going too keep? if you could alter the numbers from PTB too live, then they clearly wanted it as a mechanic. You don't nerf/buff a bug unless you want is as an actual mechanic in-game.
After all the changes the devs keep making too killers when few people have asked for them is a clear sign too me they don't listen too the community. Legion has been a killer everyone wanted buffed, instead they nerfed him. Nurse is someone who needed an addon rework, which both sides mostly agreed on, and they completely butchered her base kit. They didn't even listen too the archives until it went live, even though many people kept saying it was too hard at higher levels too complete. They only changed it because few people could actually complete them. The only change in recent time that the devs listen too the community is with Spirit, making her more fair too fight but not changing how strong she is, everything else has been a trainwreck IMO.
First part of your question is so easy to answer its unbelievable. Legions M1 in FF apply Deep Wounds, it doesn't down survivors like a normal M1. While wraith and Nurse M1 while using their power apply no extra effects. Their power is movement based, the M1 has no additional effects. And to be honest I like the new Legion. He feels slick to play, and I like how fast he can injure survivors.
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@FriendlyGuy said:
Would there be a perk with a totem counter, there would be much less complains about NOED. SWF can dodge NOED easily. Solos get hit by it basically everytime the killer uses it. And it's very strong compared to other endgame perks.
Small Game, I've literally killed Ruin so many times with this perk