TheClownIsKing
TheClownIsKing
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@Shirokinukatsukami said:
Nurse is just a poorly-designed killer. She circumvents every mechanic everyone else has to deal with. In the right hand she is unstoppable no matter who the survivors are and what they do. (Yet the game is still survivor-sided according to people)
Yes, it takes a lot of practice, skill and dedication to get to that level but nurse is the main reason I don't accept the narrative that the game is survivor-sided.
She’s not poorly designed.
She’s poorly dealt with.
Survivors don’t respect that they need to play extra cautious and extra stealthy against her. I.e. avoid chases to begin with.
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@Greatamygdala said:
Look how quick they destroyed Undying and Ruin. I wish they had this sense of urgency when a Survivor has a strong build.
Oh wait that's majority of the community and that's not fun for the survivors.
Knock out? M1 requirement haha Might as well put a cool down on Pop goes the weasel while you're at it so killers can just run Monstrous shrine.
How quick they destroyed Ruin?!
Anyway anyone denying that the original implementation of Undying was unhealthy is being foolish.
For comparison it didn’t take long for the devs to acknowledge how unhealthy original MoM was, and changed it.
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@Pipefish said:
So I am playing survivor with some friends at night and it takes forever for us to find a match.
It couldn't be because Pop got nerfed to 40 seconds. It couldn't be the massive nerf of Undying. It couldn't be the removal of the Mori. It couldn't be survivors using keys and decisive strike/unbreakable.
In all seriousness this game lacks killer players. Rather than try to get new killer players in they instead scare old players away. I hope they will shift to some killer sided updates soon but this games history says otherwise.
Side Note: I agree that in the higher levels of play this game is clearly killer sided. I am referring more to the casual level killer who doesn't have time to grind the 1000's of hours necessary to "get good"
It’s because roughly between the hours of 5:30pm and 9:30pm has a great deal of hardcore dedicated red rank SWF groups. That in itself isn’t terrible, but a great deal of them also play in an incredibly obnoxious way, and do things to intentionally incite frustration in the killer.
It’s just not fun.
So many long time killers simply wont log on during those periods.
They’ll either join the long queues as survivor, or play an entirely different game.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1861362#Comment_1861362
Feel free to read my other posts on this thread if you want a more detailed argument, but suffice it to say that blocking gen explosions is an absolutely miniscule effect for non-beginners because gens should seldom get blown up in the first place. Technician would be weak and get no use without the additional penalty, but it is trash tier to the point of being borderline detrimental with the additional penalty; if the killer is occupied, or someone is running red herring, or you're trying to stick the last gen, the 4 second penalty is worse for you than preventing the explosion. When the killer is nearby and doesn't know you're there, the reverse is true. How this shakes out depends on the match, but what we can say for sure is that Technician is god awful in its current state and therefore does not need the added penalty. Even if you want to focus on gen explosions for some reason there is absolutely no reason to run it over Red Herring.
Beginners who can't even hit a skill check are the only ones getting any mileage out of this perk, and I really don't see why players that bad/new need additional punishment. ~9-10 seconds of repair time (8 instant regression + maybe a second or two while the gen is sparking and can't be repaired) is already a huge punishment.
I think you’ll find more people run Technician than you think.
BWF? (Boozing With Friends) You can bet that some of them are chucking on Technician.
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@Moxie said:
I am looking at some perks in particular, but I am sure you can think of more.
The one that drew my attention is Territorial Imperative. I understand the distance requirement...But why does it have a cooldown? The basement is niche, how many people are running around that, all while you are 32 meters away.
Same goes for Empathy and Wake Up!. Why were they changed to reduce the global reading range?
They have fixed a lot of these (Fixated is another one. Why the injured restriction?)
Just curious: why they add these restrictions to already niche perks?
Because a down in, or near the basement can very heavily tilt the match in the killers favour, and even lead to a snowball.
They don’t want a situation with a perk that can already help engineer the above conditions from occurring also not giving the survivors any chance at all of achieving a rescue whatsoever because a perk is always alerting the killer because it doesn’t have a cool down.
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@TicTac said:
The problem is that too many players see an escape as win. Sure it gives you bloodpoints and emblem points, but compared to other things its not the sole reason of the game.
Its only rational when you want to escape.
Rational for fun? Depends on the person.
Rational for a pip? I dont think so, it can make the difference but most of the times it does not.
Rational for bloodpoints? No
Ratinal for your time? No
The whole entire purpose of playing survivor is too see if you can survive the killer and escape.
Even if the killer kills 3 survivors and 1 escapes through the hatch, overall indicating that the killer still won, for that one survivor that escaped through the hatch it’s still supposed to be a personal win.
They’re called survivors for a reason. Surviving is winning.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
No, it isnt. Basically, if it is a 3v1 before at least 4 Gens have been done, the Survivors will lose. Of course if there is no big Skill Gap between Killer and Survivor and those 3 Survivors are way better than the Killer.
In general, DBD is a game of snowballing - the most common results from my experience are 4Ks or 0Ks (I would even count Hatch Escapes or 1Ks due to camping one Survivor during EGC to secure that Kill to those, since both can be avoided by slugging or simply not camping the Hook). If the Survivor Team loses one part of their team early (which is 25%), they will most likely lose, resulting in a 4K. If the Killer cannot take one Survivor out early enough, they will lose, getting a 0K.
Of course there are results in between, there will be games with 1Ks, 2Ks and 3Ks, but from my experience, the most common results are either 4Ks or 4 man escapes.
So true.
This is why I start slugging very early in a match.
Until a survivor is indeed dead, I want to be creating the same disadvantage that a dead survivor gives: one less survivor doing gens.
Whilst 4 survivors remain alive and free to do what they will, the killer is disadvantaged. This isn’t a complaint. I get that the game is intended to be this way. It’s supposed to encourage the killer to think this way: until 1 is dead, how can I keep as many of the survivors occupied with something other than repairing generators.
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@Junylar said:
Is it even possible to escape for both survivors in this situation if the killer is not a potato? What about 2 or more gens? If the killer finds and hooks one, and the other comes for the unhook, now the killer knows where both survivors are and it's an ez 4k for him. So whenever that happens, I just start looking for the hatch and wait for the other guy to die, as it's the only chance to escape. Whenever I try to go for the save or the other guy unhooks me in this situation, it always ends with 4k. Whenever I (or the other survivor) attempt to do gens, I (he) end up dead while the other one escapes through the hatch. So is there any other counterplay to this besides the hatch game?
If there isn't, what's the point in having this situation in the game? If both survivors know how it works and no one wants to sacrifice himself for the teammate, both of them will start hiding and waiting for the hatch. It will last forever if they are both good at hiding, and the killer will cry and complain about "keeping game hostage", but it's the only rational strategy for both survivors remaining in the trial: wait for the hatch, as the hatch is now the only chance to escape. It's absurd to call the only rational strategy in the situation a "bannable offense".
You can be crafty before going for a hook save in that situation.
Go to the furthest available gen (I hope you haven’t 3 gen’d yourselves), and intentionally flub a skill check and then immediately do a wide circle back around to the hook (as killer will take the shortest possible route towards that gen). Or drop a pallet, or do a fast vault or locker entry. Anything that might draw the killer away. Be mindful that you want it to appear you made a mistake. You don’t want your diversion to be an obvious bait.
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@BuffPig said:
Im a rank 10 killer ca. 200 hours, i go against 6000 hours 4 stacks on rank 1 every time, no joke.
Last match i got 4 people with slippery meat and a glass of salty lips, everybody between rank 1 and 5 (ez pz trash killer) i cant play without tunneling and camping.
My only hope is that the next patch which reenables MMR comes fast
Here’s a tip: if you see a stack of luck offerings in the offerings screen, just slug everybody.
It’s pretty clear that they’re a SWF at that point, and it’s clear what they’re going to do, and likely have slippery meat (possibly up the ante as well).
So just slug. Let them waste their Unbreakable. Or just camp their hook waiting for their inevitable self unhook, and then just eat their DS stun to get it over and out of the game.
Red Rank survivors are brutal, but they can be predictable. Learn their patterns and behaviour. Particularly where altruism is concerned because that tends to be SWF greatest exploitable weakness.
I’m looking at you, Flashlight users.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1863757#Comment_1863757
i went back an used a stop watch to measure the time it is in effect it's actually closer to 5 seconds after you leave the gas, still over twice the duration the tonic effects a survivor when they leave it's gas.
Oh really?!
I can’t imagine that going live. That amount of speed boost whilst gaining ground on a hindered survivor sounds super OP.
I mean, I’m glad he’s being buffed. But Clown was already a beast used properly. So this is crazy good.
Survivors are going to complain so much once they’re up against Clown’s that learn to use both bottles well.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1863757#Comment_1863757
go to the gameplay shown in the dev tapes and measure the time the antidote is in effect, it is about 5 seconds way beyond the duration tonic lasts. In case your confused im not talking about how long the gas stays just the speed boost you get from it.
edit: when it shows the survivor getting the speed boost there is a thing to the right of the screen that shows how long you will be affected by the antidote, use that as a reference when measuring it's duration.
Yeah, 5 or 4.5 seconds sounds more like it.
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@ProfGameAndTalk said:
I've been playing some clown and I think the reload buff is great! I'm still a noob though and will definitely have to practice making the survivor slow and myself faster.
If you want to dramatically improve your Clown game, start concentrating on how survivors will run a loop in order to reach a pallet or vault. Like with any other killer, force a survivor to run the OPPOSITE way, but make sure gas is going to be in the survivors path.
In other words, learn where to throw bottles AHEAD of survivors rather than at them directly.
Bottles should only be thrown directly at survivors because there is an interaction you want to interrupt, or because you’re in an indoor map and the survivor is weaving a lot.
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I’d also like to add that is extremely likely that if both an antidote and tonic are used smartly at loops, survivors are unlikely to reach a pallet in time to drop it early enough to avoid being hit.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
I see a lot of people say how they don't think it will be worth using the antidote for various reasons as well as the suggestions of how it can be used but something that even I missed was just how long the speed boost lasts. I also see people forgetting that the antidote doesn't "activate" right away, it takes a second for the gas to become active and give the players the speed boost so throwing it at a survivor doesn't mean they will get it's affects.
As it is the speed boost from the antidote last around 7 seconds giving you a 10% speed increase, that's over twice the duration of the tonic which lasts 3 seconds and gives survivors a negative 15% speed decrease. this means that simply throwing it ahead and passing through it in a chase is actually BETTER than hitting a survivor with the tonic considering the situation and you can always just throw a tonic afterward at a survivor for a bigger difference in speed.
Consider this situation you chase a survivor to a normal loop (2 or more objects with 1 pallet in between with no vaults), what you can do is throw the antidote a little before the loop then a tonic at the side you will push the survivor. This makes a situation where the survivor didn't get the movement speed from the antidote because of it's delayed activation and they can't loop the side they want meaning the only option is to throw down the pallet pretty much right away. HOWEVER because of the length of the speed boost from the antidote you can break the pallet and have some time left over on the speed boost to shorten the distance while also using the tonic to slow the survivor.
TLDR:
- Antidote has a delayed activation period of i think 1 - 1.5 seconds so it will be hard for the survivor to use it when placed properly.
- The speed boost lasts a very long time at around 7 seconds (considering what we were shown was it without duration addons).
- Using the antidote in the open is better than slowing survivors with the tonic but you can still use both to gain even more distance on survivors.
- used together at most loops the survivors simply have to throw down the pallet early and you loss less distance on them now thanks to the speed boost from the antidote lasting even after you break the pallet.
Not exactly sure where you got 7 seconds from. They said the duration is exactly the same as Tonic, which at base is indefinite for the duration someone is within the gas AoE and until the gas dissipates, and for an additional 2 seconds out of the gas AoE.
Usually, overall this results in about 4 to 4.5 seconds of total Intoxication. That can only be extended by an additional 1.66 seconds if stacking 15% & 10% Ether.
I think you’ll find that the Antidote gas will have the same numbers.
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@Yamaoka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1863700#Comment_1863700
115% base
+ 4% NOED
+15% PWYF
+10% speed bottle or is it +10% OF THE COMBINED speed ?
Big boy is gonna be fast as BEEP.
Does Clown lose PWYF stacks when you throw bottles?
Honestly not sure. It’s one of my least used perks on Clown.
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@Yamaoka said:
Oh boy... New Clown speed increasing bottles + NOED speed buff = Formula 1 instadown
Plus 3stack PWYF
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@Mr_K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1863377#Comment_1863377
When the Devs talk percentages of movement speed, it's typically based around 4 m/s being 100% speed.
So survivors would become 110% speed, 4.4 m/s (Huntress, Hag)
Normal speed killers (115%) would become 125% speed, 5 m/s.
This would be an additive effect instead of a multiplier effect. Like how PWYF adds 5% speed, you get 120% (4.8 m/s) instead of 120.75% (4.83 m/s).
Typically, but they made a point of saying it’s 10% of the players current movement speed.
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@Massquwatt said:
I suppose it's all going to depend on the delay that turns the gas cloud into a speed cloud. I don't know if there's any official numbers yet but I've heard it takes 2-3 seconds to turn into a speed cloud and if that's the case it's gonna be pretty bad by default, using it as a speed boost to travel across the map will be annoying because you'll have to throw bottles way ahead of yourself and survivors will see them giving them more time to get ahead of you. 3 seconds is a lot of time to think ahead of in a chase, especially around a loop. You can put your speedy gas cloud perfectly for your loop but it won't mean much if the survivor just throws down the pallet and leaves for another loop which is something that already happens a fair bit with clown.
My guess is they'll probably introduce addons that lessen the delay for the speedy gas cloud appearing but I already have my own problems with that where BHVR have this annoying tendency to make default powers really sluggish and annoying to use and then band-aid it with addons instead of just making the power good in the first place. What I'll be looking at very closely will be Flask of Bleach and Solvent Jug, they'll be getting changed for sure but if the new versions are inferior to their old counterparts it could be an overall nerf for clown.
It’s really not going to be that hard. If a Clown player already knows where to throw 2 tonics at a strong loop, then it won’t be hard to figure out which of those 2 spots should be swapped for an antidote so that Clown gets the speed boost at the moment a survivor is affected by a tonic.
This new ability is going to turn 100% of every loop in every map completely unsafe for survivors. They’re going to hate it.
A lot.
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@Parallax said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1862855#Comment_1862855
That's not necessarily true. While survivors would gain extra speed the Clown would gain the same amount of speed, which would mean that distance isn't gained.
Actually that’s incorrect.
A 10% increase of survivor movement speed takes them from 4m per second to 4.4m per second, but a 10% increase of Clown’s movement speed jumps from 4.6m per second to 5.06m per second.
So Clown goes from being 0.6m a second faster to 0.66m a second faster. It’s only a minor difference, but Clown will nevertheless be slightly faster than usual to the survivor if both are affected by Antidote.
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@PeaceNGrease said:
The weirdest part to me is the fact that it "cures all debuffs"... Imagine if it came out broken and affected exhaustion
I’m almost certain it only removes Intoxication (hindered, blurred vision, coughing).
BUT seeing as that only lasts 2 seconds outside of a tonic gas AoE, there’d need to be an Antidote Cloud close enough to happen.
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The Wraith community have been begging for true invisibility since the Stone Age exactly because he could be seen across the map.
They’re finally getting what was asked for, whilst making sure it’s balanced, and you’re now asking “Was seeing Wraith from a distance ever really an issue?”
Huh?!
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@MadLordJack said:
I don't think the status effect will stack. Hindered doesn't, after all.
True, but that only reduces survivor movement speed by 15% of the base 4m movement speed. Meaning they’re reduced by 0.6m a second. If a tonic is thrown at a survivor and they immediately use Sprint Burst, their Sprint Burst is still only reduced by 0.6m a second.
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@EvilJoshy said:
What happens if a survivor is in a meth cloud the moment SB, Lithe or BL activate? Won't that just give them an even greater distance on the Clown? This power change sounds like it has too many draw backs.
Why would a Clown player do that to a survivor they suspect has one of those perks though?
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@konchok said:
You're asking this because you know it would be OP. We really won't know until after the PTB. But my guess is "Entity Realm, no"
Asking more because it would be an oversight. They did say 10% of current movement speed, and not the 10% of base 4m afterall.
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@MigrantTheGreat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1861389#Comment_1861389
I think the problem our brothers and sisters have with DS is how punishing it feels when you don't tunnel
That’s a player letting themselves feel defeated mentally though.
It’s not hard to regain momentum after a stun. All is not lost.
Killers just need to expect DS, expect they’re going to hit with it at some point, so may as we’ll get rid of DS as early as they can.
DS is only really powerful towards the end of the game. There’s nothing more disheartening than watching a slug crawl towards an exit gate because you know they can’t be picked up just because the killer was too afraid to take that survivors DS earlier in the game and just slugged them instead.
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1861378#Comment_1861378
ok, that would make the antidote even worse as the difference in speed is less. so you HAVE to combine both bottles or the tonic will always be the better choice
I’m almost certain that the core idea is so that some of the really strong loops will now still also be manageable for Clown, and dangerous for survivors. This will likely be achieved by quickly throwing a tonic way ahead of the survivor in front of a pallet or vault Clown knows they’re heading towards (Zanshin is a GREAT training tool on Clown), and then throw an Antidote in front of (or at) the survivor so that the survivor DOESNT get the boost, but Clown does, resulting in Clown being faster at the same time the survivor is hindered (making for a total speed difference of 25%), meaning it should be 100% impossible for a survivor to reach any vault or pallet before being hit.
I can see other uses for the antidote, but I think this is the main idea of how to use the antidote.
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@jrinkwater said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1861389#Comment_1861389
This mentality is the same line of thinking I feel the developers have. And this is a really poor take.
DS is abused by groups (or coordinated randoms) to bait you into the stun and loss of time. This is supposed to be an anti-tunneling perk. Yet it's mechanics operate in situations like running into lockers and at end gates. Also, this is more designed to be anti-slugging with the ridiculous timer that someone can pretty much crawl out of an exit gate from so far away before it runs out... or use unbreakable... or coupled with borrow time lol. It rewards too many errors. If four people run DS on the team... it's literally poison to any skilled killer.as now you HAVE to tunnel because you sure as ######### shouldn't have to wait out timers all damn game. Which forces you to slug while this SWF constantly gets each other up and resets. At this point, the game just becomes about taunting and offensive plays.
Survivors play with way too much in their favor, to be honest.
You’ve already pointed out exactly how DS hurts you, and what I intentionally avoid happening: The Survivors still having their DS late game or end game.
That can only happen if the killer is too fearful of DS earlier in the match and allowed survivors to keep their DS until late in the game.
Seriously, I only slug for pressure, but if I’ve just downed someone I know probably has DS and only 2 gens have been repaired, then I pick them up and eat the stun, then let them run off while I pressure other survivors.
That survivor can now no longer:
- be as aggressive doing unhooks in my face.
- Be as aggressive with body blocking.
- Can’t do the obnoxious “jump into locker” after unhook.
- Will most likely be far less inclined to try and get my attention when I’m targeting other survivors.
Just eat the stun. It takes away so many survivor options once they’ve used it, and absolutely makes late game way more manageable.
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@Mugombo said:
Actually if ruin is cleansed then it transfers. Which still leaves 2 active totems. It could then be a 50/50 whether ruin is cleansed or undying (not entirely 50/50 if you know some info already but not the point). If undying is cleansed next it’s 3 totems to cleanse before ruin is gone not 2 which for players who haven’t played enough to memorise all totem spots can be pretty difficult to find. It also has the aura reading so it’s deffo better at protecting ruin than just running it with another perk. Whether it’s worth running or not I’m not too sure yet, probably not but it’s not as bad as everyone is making it out to be
I’m pretty sure the devs said that once a successful transfer occurs, Undying gets disabled. So it’s still only 2 cleanses. Unless I misunderstood what the devs said.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
Well let's play the PTB hope the devs see how it's nerfed too much. And pray to Jesus they make a more reasonable change. Then watch people still complain.
Just to be clear, I’m not whining or complaining (like my usual angry rants). I’m putting up what I thought was a reasonable comparison as to why someone would now run Undying instead of just an additional Hex instead.
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@Moxie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1861389#Comment_1861389
Used to respect you as a Killer main until this moment. You clearly do not understand the time-gain DS gives. It is a 5 sec time gain if the survivors just sits beside you after stunning you.
Ok...
Well i’m not looking to win popularity contests anyway.
I just want to help other players.
I always keep in my mind that survivors only get to use DS once, and after that they’re screwed. DS is only really strong (to me) late game or end game.
So I make a point of intentionally eating as many DS stuns as possible, as early as possible. Each time I eat a stun I immediately return to pressuring a different survivor at a gen.
This strategy has rarely failed me, regardless of how strong and coordinated the team might be.
I treat Unbreakable the same way with LOTS of slugging to force it out of the survivors early.
Having their DS gone totally changes the survivors behaviour mid game/late game (less aggressive), making them easier to manage.
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@MadLordJack said:
If they hadn't added the caveat that allowed a transferred totem to keep its tokens, I would maybe agree. However, the simple fact is that who TF needs Ruin when you get all the game stall and map pressure you need by running Devour Hope. Gens flying by? Wait til you get three hooks, they'll stop like a truck into a reinforced concrete wall as everyone scrambles to cleanse Devour.
Plus, it's still okay with Ruin. Two effective Ruin totems is plenty decent, it's just not game-winning like Ruin/Undying currently is.
Edit: I reread your post and I kind of see your point, but also just adding in TOTH and a mobile killer and suddenly it's even worse than current Undying.
This is a very good point. I think they’ve placed emphasis on Undying providing better mileage to Devour, Lullaby, and TTS.
However, disappointingly, for a Hex like Blood Favour (which I personally like), 1 transfer isn’t good enough anymore. Blood Favour was proportionally strong (or weak) depending on how long Undying lasted.
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@Mozzie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1858637#Comment_1858637
Every time a change is made to killer someone always says this, then we try it and find out we were right all along. We don't need to wait. We can take educated guesses on what's happened in the past. We've seen the addon changes they've done to killers. They suck. Have you noticed that most of the new addons for the new killers are pretty terrible? Mostly every killer rework that gets an addon pass is worse than it was before? I think Clown's addons are going to get gutted. I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it. I think Solvent Jug is getting nerfed as well as Pinky's, possibly even bleach.
But when you say Educated Guess, what are you basing this guess on?
Are you also a seasoned Clown main that holds his own in red ranks?
I’ve played Clown since the release of Curtain Call, and all I can see is just how much more impossible it will be for survivors to avoid hits at loops when a tonic cloud is in the correct place and an antidote cloud is in the right place for Clown to speed up at the exact moment survivors are hindered.
But this is also going to dramatically increase his difficulty skill cap. Players that couldn’t wrap their head around how to end chases super fast with Clown now, are not going to do any better figuring out how to combo his existing tonic with the new antidote.
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@Negi said:
It's not so much that undying didn't need a nerf. It's that whenever killers get something strong it gets nerfed, we just want that kind of urgency for survivors too.
But do you understand my point?
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They’re doing balance and game health changes every single chapter and mid chapter
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
I just thought that you could also use the afterpiece tonic as a kind of budget agitation.
Throw it on the downed survivor,pick him up and use the speed boost to carry them faster to hooks
(Normal carrying speed: 3,68 m/s;
with the tonic effect : 4,05 m/s)
Now you’re thinking with portals
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@Lycidas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/218087/new-clown-is-going-to-get-bullied-hard
Throwing the antidote is going to be completely optional though? If you see that you don't know how to throw the antidote in an effective way you can simply NEVER switch bottles and always use the regular bottles, so the only change that will influence you is the fact that the reload speed now is faster, do you think player's experience will be more miserable for that?
Exactly.
And there already exist Clown mains that decimate teams in red ranks. They’re just currently rare.
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BWAHAHA 🤣🤣🤣
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I am a long time killer and I simply do not understand how so many killers can get upset about DS.
The devs won’t change it because the survivor can only use it ONCE. This means the absolute MAXIMUM amount of times a killer can be stunned by it is 4.
Just eat the stun. It’s really not that crippling. That survivor is now vulnerable for the remainder of the trial.
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1861105#Comment_1861105
Didn't the tonic do the same? Using the antidote (if they actually have the same percentage buff/debuff) should do the same. It doesn't matter if you have a 90% survivor followed by a 115% killer or if a 100% survivor is followed by a 125% killer. With a given distance it will take the same time as the speed difference is the same.
The thing is, with the 100%-125% version, you have a faster overall movement speed, giving the survivor a bigger chance to get to a safe spot in time.
I also disagree (for now, surely let's wait for the PTB first) with the map travel thing. You consume your chase tool as well by doing so, so you either need to run increased bottle count addons or land that one bottle perfectly, otherwise the reload kinda wastes the speed advantage.
tbh when I was looking at the first "gif" of the changes, I hoped for a totally different effect. Like no speed boost/debuff but it stays longer (30-60 seconds) as a type of tracking ability (making survivors just scream anyway)
The Tonic is a 15% debuff.
Flask of bleach makes it 20%.
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@csandman1977 said:
So before going into the changes I want to talk about clowns strengths as of this post.
Anti-looping. That's it. In the hands of players that know how to use him, clown is one of the better killers for making loops near impossible. In the overall concensus clowns major weakness was map pressure and being able to get from point a to point b. Also his god awful reload time.
New clown. Will still be amazing at antiloop. His speed bottles will improve his map mobility making it easier and quicker for him to end a chase and get to another one. That alone raises his tier potential.
Reloading speed being quicker is a huge buff. Huntress players can tell the difference with and without iron maiden or reloading gloves.
Now the elephant in the room is that the speed gas (or sonic tonic which is an amazing name and all credit goes the person who created it that i cant remember and i stole it from) affects survivors. And there was no real way to do have this kind of speed boost on clown without the gas affecting the survivors. Think about his anti loop and then add in throwing the sonic tonic in front of a survivor and them not getting the speed boost.
Clown would have the strongest chase in the game besides nurse. It would be meaningless to try to run from him. It needs to be this way.
All in all i think clown will be b tier if not a tier.
It’s immediately where my mind gravitated.
He will now be guaranteed even more loops that he can make 100% impossible for survivors to avoid a hit.
A cleverly thrown antidote and tonic at separate parts of the loop, so that the survivor runs through the antidote while it’s white, gets caught in the tonic, just as Clown passes through the activated yellow antidote.
No more 50/50 at loops with an already dropped pallet.
If Survivors couldn’t see now that they’re meant to play stealthy against Clown, they’ll learn quickly now.
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Dead Hard is perfectly fine.
The one and only thing that’s unhealthy about the perk is when it’s used in a dead end, or actually directly into the killer, but it still makes the survivor invulnerable.
This is the only time it’s total crap to deal with. The survivor isn’t going anywhere, and is right there. There is visual confirmation that the weapon swing is in contact with the survivor character model. But nope. They’re invulnerable despite right next to the killer.
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@RepostRiposte said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1861216#Comment_1861216
If we're being honest, Pop does not have 12 uses
10 maximum considering there will only be 1 survivor left after 11
Once there are 3 survivors left using Pop is often a waste of time + there are many points in a match where you will not have the opportunity to use it on the right generators, especially after the nerf
Sure, there may not be any need to use it more than 8 to 10 times, but I think you’ve gone past the point I’m emphasising.
The suggested Overcharge buff would be broken. I was using Pop as a comparison, and how totally redundant Pop would be if Overcharge did get such a buff.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1859826#Comment_1859826
You're already punished by 10% instant regression, though. I'm just saying there's no need to make it 13% instant regression; removing the loud noise notification really isn't strong enough to justify any sort of downside.
Let's imagine you remove the penalty. It would be almost entirely useless for players who have any amount of experience. And, for beginners, if a player is getting any mileage out of this perk, that means they're missing a ton of skill checks, and that's already extremely punishing to them and their team.
Compare it to Unrelenting. Imagine if we gave Unrelenting a movement speed debuff if you miss a swing, or something; that's sort of what it feels like to me.
What are you talking about?
It means never giving yourself away to the killer ever for flubbing a gen skill check. A core part of the core game experience
Of course there needs to be a drawback.
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@JCZ said:
so as we all know adrenaline is obviously a much better perk than bitter murmur so I'm just wondering why the devs decided to nerf bitter murmer when the hatch is closed and not adrenaline, Bitter murmur used to be applied after closing the hatch and you can see the survivors for a limited time, which is counterable by hiding in a locker, adrenaline however has no counter to it, so why does adrenaline still work after hatch is closed but not bitter murmur?
It’s the conditions.
Adrenaline activates once the gates are powered.
Bitter Murmur only activates each time a generator is repaired.
Closing the hatch powers the gates. It doesn’t count as “all gens are repaired”
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@FlamingkittyUmad said:
+25% gen regression on gens you kicked, on top of current effect
You’re kidding right?
PGTW is already really strong (and sometimes still complained about), and can only be used a maximum of 12 times.
There would be absolutely no reason to use PGTW if Overcharge could regress gens 25% with any kick, no conditions necessary, AND a survivor still incurs the 15% penalty for failing Overcharge.
This idea is far too broken I’m sorry.
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1860773#Comment_1860773
so you wasted 2 bottles, while you could also have one bottle wasted and slowed down the survivor. Not sure in which scenario that "bait" would work, as the time needed to throw 2 bottles needs quite a bit of free space without vaults, which seems like a plain tonic is the better choice on the plain open to prevent the survivor from getting to the vault in time. If you talk about baiting a survivor away from a pallet into the open, why should a survivor do that, knowing that the clown will get the same buff anyway, even if he doesn't cancel it?
It’s not a waste of 2 bottles if Clown managed the speed boost whilst a survivor is hindered.
Many loops already require 2 bottles as it stands right now anyway.
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1859880#Comment_1859880
I think the "encourage survivors" thing simply won't work. It makes totally no sense to use it, at least I can't think of a single situation where it actually helps. Left through the gas or right to the safe pallet/window. Yeah lets take the speedboost, where I 100% safely can assume that the Clown will get the same speedboost aftr walking through the gas, making the speedboost redundant. Like what? In which situation should I ever prefer the gas as survivor? This idea actually requires dumb survivors to work out.
The only use of the antidote is if the clown is able to perfectly time it correct, so that the gas activates after the survivor leaves and just buffs the Clown. Still, having a slower survivor is the bigger benefit compared to a faster Clown, because there is no change in the duration of the chase. Let's say a regular chase is 100% followed by 115% and a tonic means 90% followed by 115%. The duration to catch up a specific distance is the same if you change it to 100% followed by 125%. The only difference is, that the survivor will need less time to the next vault/pallet. So why use the antidote at all? Only to travel faster across the map, (also @Yamaoka ) but that will consume your chase tool, so you need to refill again once you find a survivor.
Sure, mechanics might work different than expected, I might miss some things, we will see on the PTB or maybe weeks after. But that is what I currently see.
@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1859880#Comment_1859880
I think the "encourage survivors" thing simply won't work. It makes totally no sense to use it, at least I can't think of a single situation where it actually helps. Left through the gas or right to the safe pallet/window. Yeah lets take the speedboost, where I 100% safely can assume that the Clown will get the same speedboost aftr walking through the gas, making the speedboost redundant. Like what? In which situation should I ever prefer the gas as survivor? This idea actually requires dumb survivors to work out.
The only use of the antidote is if the clown is able to perfectly time it correct, so that the gas activates after the survivor leaves and just buffs the Clown. Still, having a slower survivor is the bigger benefit compared to a faster Clown, because there is no change in the duration of the chase. Let's say a regular chase is 100% followed by 115% and a tonic means 90% followed by 115%. The duration to catch up a specific distance is the same if you change it to 100% followed by 125%. The only difference is, that the survivor will need less time to the next vault/pallet. So why use the antidote at all? Only to travel faster across the map, (also @Yamaoka ) but that will consume your chase tool, so you need to refill again once you find a survivor.
Sure, mechanics might work different than expected, I might miss some things, we will see on the PTB or maybe weeks after. But that is what I currently see.
A Clown worth their salt is clearly going to make sure a tonic gas is between the survivor and the pallet/vault they’re trying to reach.
Clown is already really good at DISCOURAGING where survivors shouldn’t go. The new antidote will amplify Clowns already excellent ability to control the chase.
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@AnnoyingNarrator said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1860769#Comment_1860769
They would be similar, but still very different. Wraith is better at harassing because his invisibility is on-demand, while Spirit is better in chases because her ability is unpredictable.
I would be like Hillbilly and Oni. They are very similar, but the two have enough differences to separate them. I don't see how the two would be too similar
Another thing that the devs are likely considering is wanting to keep track of his performance after this invisibility change goes live. They might be hesitant to add anything more in case his performance sky rockets with this change.
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@6yXJI0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1860801#Comment_1860801
Oh wait! You can cancel Antidote cloud by throwing tonic at it? Thats even better
It’s what is stated in the developer notes so far.
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Because it can only be used once per survivor.
Once.