TeaLeaf
TeaLeaf
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They do it because people are awful horrible things and deserve to be put on a hook and consumed by an eldrich horror from beyound the stars! Just let it fuel you for the next game ^.^
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I love blood hound, lets me counter super immersive survivors once I whack em once. Though I find or feel like a tunnle a bit when i use it. Case I tend to find blood trails of previously hooked survivors. That bright blood calls to ya >.>
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It baffles me even more when people defend that too.
Killer is more stressful due to the fact unlike survivors the killer is constantly time senstive. Every action and decisions is eating up time and its imposible to know how much each sec matters at that moment. Are people eating away at the gens, are your totems being destroyed, how good is this survior and how much time can i let them loop me and still possibly defend a gen. Gates are powered, I have maybe 2 mins left to do something. Survivors have no time strains, they can work as stealthy and slow as they like. Killers don't have this on their side.
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@doggieman said:
The camera is at her height is it not? Raising the camera would mean making the killer taller.
Its not while she's crouched. It puts you a meeter off the ground right into the grass. Most of what we want is the cam to be at her actual eye level when croutched (stealth mode). Lining them up would be fine.
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@Zarathos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/344166#Comment_344166
Honestly the one hit down isnt the problem. Its the ms. Noed lets you approach loops and chases and win hits you would otherwise fail to land because of the additional ms. You might argue other perks offer ms and arent strong but most that do are super conditional and weak for a reason. Giving a killer additional ms is broken.
Noed one hit down effect is again fine by me but its ms bonus needs to go. Giving a killer bonus ms because there struggling is the same moronic logic that invented ds. People will always complain about one hit downs and at this stage they have been cooked well into the game. However ms boosting perks spits on the skill and ability required to play killer.
if it was a perk that lasted all game I would agree with ya, but its a perk who gives no benefit but the last min or two of the game. Their is a sacrifice in place for all the benefits Noed offers, and thats the loss of a perk for entire rest of the game. I am not saying Noed isn't strong but it has counter plays, totems can be done. It can be removed before that last few mins and even if it isn't most of the game runs with out it. The logic in its a crutch given its small window of operation if faulty logic to me personally given its counter. Tracking perks for example are far more applicable which help you locate survivors all games are far more if your defining something as a crutch, as they cover for the killers "lack of skill" in locating survivors. You could make the argument about any perk really that isn't completely niche, hence if you insist noed is a crutch so is every thing else by the simplest logical definition.
Noed is a counter play, it is an effective tool to counter the act of highly efficient gen completion also dubbed as the gen rush. Just as DS is becoming a partial counter to tunneling. Both tunneling and gen rushing are whined about obsessivly on the forums but they are both part of the game, and the issue is when their is no counter strategy. Noed is as it is to offer a counter point to full gen focus, even the threat of it can have some go.. maybe I should clean totems and not make a game 3 mins. I am not complaining about gen rush, its the survivors job but killers must have counter play to it. To whine about noed that helps as a counter strategy is silly when it can be countered its self with no additional prep. Noed should act much like ruin does, but as a maybe threat to focus on a 2ed objective rather then blaze haphazardly at the primary. Some times when you fail to do this you are still rewarded and some times you get noed in the face. After all not all killers remember have the map pressure of Mr. Billy or some others.
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We all want the pig to have a better cam when shes in stealth. Either make her crawl lower on the ground or raise it to to be where her eyes actualy are. Though we been wanting that for a long time to no avail.
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Body blocking (Both Survior and Killer) are a game mechanic (unless its abused to interrupt the actual game). Same as gen tapping. You may not like them but just like many survivors dislike tunneling and camping they are part of the game. All the metioned above can be used poorly to the detriment of the perpetrator or done wisely to aid in the desired results. To call any of them skumy is a little silly.
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Noed is fine, you give up a perk for the entire game for a last line of defense. That last line can also be removed before it has any inn game effect. People might say its a crutch, which is kinda dumb. Many killers have 1 hit Kos ... billy, myers, even leather face and they get them all game. You play doc or pig, this gives you a little bit of extra power at the very end. The perk discourages 3 min gen rushes and for lower tier killers gives them greater viability.
IF noed is a crutch then any perk survivor or killer uses is a crutch, as they all give specific advantages just as noed does.
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What is ban-able is game disruption or the use of exploits. For example, body blocking a survivor where they can't move or do any thing so the game can't end is bad or survivors who simply hide and refuse to leave longggg after the exit gates are open (less their looking for hatch ect). How you play, including gen rushing, tunneling, camping, face camping or the like may be frowned on by some, but also totally not bannable or against the rules.
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Thing is just case you shush some one dosn't really do any thing. Toxic behavior will simply manifest in other ways. I personally prefer an open dialog what ever may come rather then a censor based on feefee's. Least this way you know what your getting into before ya join the community and having a thick skin comes with it. Those who can think rationally know to pay no heed to the toxicity of dialog presented. Those who don't could use a lesson in not acting like a spoiled child just because some one else is debasing them self in such a manner. Least that's my 2 cents.
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Camping at 5 gens is lame, now and again doubling back to intercept or baiting .. sure maybe, strategy might work some times. Revving a chainsaw in some ones face for 2 mins though. Have to agree it dosn't benefit any one.
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Also I want to reiterate if the gates are powered guarding as a doggo can be a wise move depending on number of survivors left alive.
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Bloodhound surprisingly can be good, you still have to get that one hit but a big glowing puddle under a dark silhouette is quite spotable.
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Wouldn't it be KWF not SWF?
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I would be happy with a chance or condition just to retain add-ons ... like survivors get.
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I think that would be a bit much my self. I like the current noed personally, you give up something for that strong finish. Getting it for free would require some major buffs to survivors end game to balance.
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@Master said:
@Orion said:
There are many explanations, but until you accept that the killer doesn't have to bow to the survivors' will, you will never recognize it.
Survivors are supposed to be the weak role. If you're not picking the survivor role to face almost insurmountable odds against an unstoppable killing machine that makes you earn everything you try to do, then why'd you pick survivor?They are supposed to be the weak role, but how is someone supposed to know that doesnt check lore?
Common... sense..?
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@HatCreature said:
@Mr_Myers said:
Make that a baseline thing, not a perk. They almost made bloodlust a perk, hatch closing/interaction shouldn't have to use a perk slotWe all saw the army of Salty Survivors when this came out for base, maybe it would be cool if it was a perk, maybe they wouldn't have as much base to complain since not everyone will run it. They could call it No Hope and it's a Hex totem, hatch is shut until it's broken.
Of course I do agree with you that it should be base, the endgame is crap and they said they're working on it but who knows when that'll happen.
Dear sweet innocent boy... "won't have as much base to complain"... ah... such innocence in dark times...
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They are a complete smore kit... case every one needs those when you go camping.
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Body blocking is only bad when its used as an element to disrupt the game as mentioned in examples above. Tactical use of body blocking is really a game mechanic in a way.
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Killer see's a match, it dosn't look like they will have fun, it looks like there gonna have a frustrating bully session and they decide to pass. How dare they! shakes fist
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@Eveline said:
You can hardly depip without anything even with bad perks. Where is the fun in 4 toolboxes when someone doesn't even have ruin? I never bring any items as a survivor. I search boxes true but they are random at least and no add ons for me.They increase a persons ability to win any for many winning is what they think is fun. I personal can't fault any one for wanting to bring their A game less their d-ranking. It also dosn't help that those items have a good chance of not being used up during the trail though which I do think is a bit much since the same isn't offered to the killer side.
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@Lillika said:
I do not make a willful effort to tunnel anyone, but I will not ignore a survivor who is near my blade. Why do I keep getting blamed for tunnelling. I used to Tunnel so I know what it is, but since about last week I have made a willful effort to not tunnel and I do try to hook all 4 survivors for the bbq bonus (and there is also a pip bonus for this too).The fact that I still get blamed for tunnelling means survivors really have an entitlement issue if they think they can just be easy targets and not hit, because that would be "tunnelling, grow up pls.
Weather you play by arbitrary rules of "conduct" or not your gonna get salt at the end or EZ insults. Best to learn the truth of all killers, stop caring what others say and use what ever style of game play is fun for you. Tunnel or not, camp or not you do you. You are free to play however YOU want, but don't expect the other side to ever appreciate your efforts win or lose.
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@IamFran said:
@MegsAreEvil said:
Genrush doesnt exist. Its survivors objective to do Gens as fast as possible. NOED just rewards killers for NOT doing their objective properly and punishes survivors for doing their objective efficiently and thats the problem. If DS is considered toxic, what aboutNOED? Its far worse AND far more used. Everybody telling DS is toxic and needed a change has to say the same about NOED, otherwise its just a unprejudiced perspective.Again, another who probably have played 1 hour killer and say genrush is the killer not doing his job...
As I have said in other thread before,
I ask how the hell I can patrol 7 gens with a regular 115% speed killer to avoid a genrush. If you have bad luck and the first two or three gens you check don't have any survivor working, the first gen will be done shortly or already done, also in the time you spend in the first chase and first hook (a survivor without DS) the first gen is done, even if you see a survivor 15 or 20 seconds after the trial starts and you have to hook the survivors twelve times (without considering moris or not being saved before the struggle). Or maybe you think everyone play Nurse or Billy.
I personally use Ruin rather than NOED, but using NOED is legitimal to counter a genrush in the late game.Your feeding a troll, I already gave em their cookie! Gonna spoil em nods Clearly their not makeing an argument, their simply stating feels not points of discussion while stroking their e peen and simultaneously taking a condescending stance.
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@ShrimpTwiggs said:
@TeaLeaf said:
@ShrimpTwiggs said:
@TeaLeaf said:
@ShrimpTwiggs said:
@TeaLeaf said:
@ShrimpTwiggs said:
I hate this 'punish genrush' mentality. That's the only objective survivors have to open the gates. What your essentially saying is "it punishes survivors for doing their objective as fast and efficiently as possible."I agree that genrush is an issue, but stop defending band-aid fixes. The devs need to actually fix it. So what if NOED nets you a few kills? The game was still over in five minutes after waiting who knows how long with how inconsistent lobbies are..
Noed isn't a anti-gen rush mentality its a counter play to it. Same as one who really hates the doctor takes calm spirit, or some one who hates being slugged takes the perks for its counter. That is what perks are, its the player trying to either cover their own weakness or trying to implement counter play to another strategy. Gen Rush is a thing and is fine as long as the other side has options and strategies to try and counter play it. Perk choose is just one step towards that, and noed happens to be one of the best options at the moment.
Except the doctor, calm spirit, or perks to counter slugging aren't massive, game breaking issues. Gen rush is and it needs a real fix, not a band-aid. But at the same time, I've seen comments, one in this very discussion, that says NOED 'punishes' gen rush, as if survivors doing the only objective to escape warrants punishment. And even if NOED is a counterplay to a broken gameplay mechanic, than it isn't a very good one. Even if you get a kill out of it, the game was still over stupidly quick.
I will agree that the game can go by too fast at times, the killer is always the one counting down how much time every thing takes them to do given the nature of the game. However as some might see it as punishing I see it as setting up a last line of defense, but perspectives differ for differ people. Tomato Tamato.
In terms of fixing gen rush as an element, do the devs want it fixed or is it acceptable to them. Some people don't like it, just like some people don't like camping (stratgic camping! Not talking bout 1st hook face camping). However its a part of the game but why? One reason I can think of is the fact that DBD is a simplistic game. If you add gen time to fix gen rush survivors complain "oh i have to hold m1 even longer now". Secondary objectives is often suggested for it, which is what noed and hex's offer. How do you address the issue then? Noed mere existence can cause some people to stop and do totems regardless if its used or not, and that is more effective than even ruin. However its all a game to game kinda thing, case their are so many variables to try and balance.
The difference between NOED and direct secondary objectives is that those objectives would be necessary to do and easier to track due to the fact that you can see the generators being done on the HUD. And since they're necessary and would be part of the core of the game, randos would be more likely to do them instead of brush it off as a "I'll do it if I feel like it." kinda thing. You're completely right about the variables. While NOED can hurt solos, it's very weak against a coordinated SWF team. But I think this only makes it worse, at is makes the divide between solo and SWF even bigger.
However that is the general problem with the game as a whole, is that high skill vs low skill, and solo vs swf is all in a single game mode which they are trying to balance for. Every time you balance for one it complicates the other. Balance for low skill solo and high skill or swf or high skilled swf will exploit the leeway into an unplayable state (has been seen before). Try to balance for high skill in general and you make a steep learning curve for low skill and new players, which i feel is a primary source of complainers on both sides.
I personally wouldn't mind secondarily objectives or a more complex game mode then we have now. Perhaps popup quests for a gen your working on, you have to go get a part some where on the map to continue progress on it would add so much flavor to the game. However I am not sure we will see such.
Yeah, I feel like the devs didn't really consider things as much as they should've. They didn't really put enough thought into the advantages of SWF or how some things affect the skill curve of DBD, but I still think we should try to balance the game as best we can. It'll never be perfect, but that's why we have forums, so we can discuss and share our opinion with the devs. At the very least, they're willing to actually listen.
Well when you can actually find people who are willing to hold an un-biased discussion any way
. It happens! Just not as often as it should. They are I heard however trying to integrate the boons provided with SWF to solo players. If its done well it will might allow the elimination of a confounding variables to the games formula, allowing things to be balanced as if SWF is the constant. This universal buff to survivor play with the necessary following buffs to killer play is probably the most hopeful promise we have for game balance in the long run. -
Don't forget "Your instantly teleported behind the gates"
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@ShrimpTwiggs said:
@TeaLeaf said:
@ShrimpTwiggs said:
@TeaLeaf said:
@ShrimpTwiggs said:
I hate this 'punish genrush' mentality. That's the only objective survivors have to open the gates. What your essentially saying is "it punishes survivors for doing their objective as fast and efficiently as possible."I agree that genrush is an issue, but stop defending band-aid fixes. The devs need to actually fix it. So what if NOED nets you a few kills? The game was still over in five minutes after waiting who knows how long with how inconsistent lobbies are..
Noed isn't a anti-gen rush mentality its a counter play to it. Same as one who really hates the doctor takes calm spirit, or some one who hates being slugged takes the perks for its counter. That is what perks are, its the player trying to either cover their own weakness or trying to implement counter play to another strategy. Gen Rush is a thing and is fine as long as the other side has options and strategies to try and counter play it. Perk choose is just one step towards that, and noed happens to be one of the best options at the moment.
Except the doctor, calm spirit, or perks to counter slugging aren't massive, game breaking issues. Gen rush is and it needs a real fix, not a band-aid. But at the same time, I've seen comments, one in this very discussion, that says NOED 'punishes' gen rush, as if survivors doing the only objective to escape warrants punishment. And even if NOED is a counterplay to a broken gameplay mechanic, than it isn't a very good one. Even if you get a kill out of it, the game was still over stupidly quick.
I will agree that the game can go by too fast at times, the killer is always the one counting down how much time every thing takes them to do given the nature of the game. However as some might see it as punishing I see it as setting up a last line of defense, but perspectives differ for differ people. Tomato Tamato.
In terms of fixing gen rush as an element, do the devs want it fixed or is it acceptable to them. Some people don't like it, just like some people don't like camping (stratgic camping! Not talking bout 1st hook face camping). However its a part of the game but why? One reason I can think of is the fact that DBD is a simplistic game. If you add gen time to fix gen rush survivors complain "oh i have to hold m1 even longer now". Secondary objectives is often suggested for it, which is what noed and hex's offer. How do you address the issue then? Noed mere existence can cause some people to stop and do totems regardless if its used or not, and that is more effective than even ruin. However its all a game to game kinda thing, case their are so many variables to try and balance.
The difference between NOED and direct secondary objectives is that those objectives would be necessary to do and easier to track due to the fact that you can see the generators being done on the HUD. And since they're necessary and would be part of the core of the game, randos would be more likely to do them instead of brush it off as a "I'll do it if I feel like it." kinda thing. You're completely right about the variables. While NOED can hurt solos, it's very weak against a coordinated SWF team. But I think this only makes it worse, at is makes the divide between solo and SWF even bigger.
However that is the general problem with the game as a whole, is that high skill vs low skill, and solo vs swf is all in a single game mode which they are trying to balance for. Every time you balance for one it complicates the other. Balance for low skill solo and high skill or swf or high skilled swf will exploit the leeway into an unplayable state (has been seen before). Try to balance for high skill in general and you make a steep learning curve for low skill and new players, which i feel is a primary source of complainers on both sides.
I personally wouldn't mind secondarily objectives or a more complex game mode then we have now. Perhaps popup quests for a gen your working on, you have to go get a part some where on the map to continue progress on it would add so much flavor to the game. However I am not sure we will see such.
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I think the hatch if fine as is as well. The bear trap should not squish all hope and if your the last person there, find the hatch you deserve to escape.
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@BOSS242 said:
TeaLeaf said:I said this on another post but I will say it again, They don't like Noed because its a good perk and it punishes gen rushing aka helps counter play it. The issue is Noed is balanced for high rank play, where it can either slow the game down a little at high rank as people deal with dull totems or net the killer a few kills when the gates are powered they would not other wise be able to get in a 3-4 mins rush. This goes very well with non-top tier killers. Its at lower ranks however you find the perk can slaughter newer players who don really understand the game yet and generally are less skilled. It also makes it where if a person combines it with camping a single target when the gates are open, to ensure usually that 1 kill at least when the rest of the match went fubar and survivors are forced with a feeling of helplessness. Survivors are very not use to having feelings of helplessness in this game despite the supposed nature of the game or being put in a situation where they should choose to cut their losses, noed can give a killer the power to make survivors make hard chooses under specific circumstances. Given the general self entitlement and toxisity of the community as well, this can be very amplified by the vocal minority who really don't want balance.
What??? High rank perk???? Are you kidding??? It's the worst crutch I've ever seen in a video game!! Im a "high level player" XD and high level killers know that NOED is for low skill players that do not understand how their killer properly functions. You don't need NOED you need to get better at the game!
Gives the troll a cookie
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@MegsAreEvil said:
Genrush doesnt exist. Its survivors objective to do Gens as fast as possible. NOED just rewards killers for NOT doing their objective properly and punishes survivors for doing their objective efficiently and thats the problem. If DS is considered toxic, what aboutNOED? Its far worse AND far more used. Everybody telling DS is toxic and needed a change has to say the same about NOED, otherwise its just a unprejudiced perspective.When i was speaking of as a perspective of counter play vs punishment this is the exact mentality I mean. Noed isn't a punishment, its a counter play and a line of defense. The argument presented here is a super simplistic one "I am suppose to do gens, any thing that hinders that is bad, noed is punishing me for doing my job" with out considering any thing eles. The fact that killers are suppose to stop the escape even when gens are done. That the game isn't over until you open the gates and leave. That to set up a this defense the killer gives up a perk for all but that end portion of the game with no guarantee it will afford them any use besides a small increase in game time. There are even builds who focus only only the end game which are stratgies some people enjoy. Mr. Panda and his blood warden is quite popular. I digress however, the point I am trying to say the perspective noed is some how a punishment for surviors and a reward for killers is silly. It is a perk largely taken to help counter .. and since the term gen rush is liked ... unbalanced over efficiency of gen completion...
In short gen rush isn't real when the opposing side has strategies and options against it, noed is simply one avenu to that end.
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@ShrimpTwiggs said:
@TeaLeaf said:
@ShrimpTwiggs said:
I hate this 'punish genrush' mentality. That's the only objective survivors have to open the gates. What your essentially saying is "it punishes survivors for doing their objective as fast and efficiently as possible."I agree that genrush is an issue, but stop defending band-aid fixes. The devs need to actually fix it. So what if NOED nets you a few kills? The game was still over in five minutes after waiting who knows how long with how inconsistent lobbies are..
Noed isn't a anti-gen rush mentality its a counter play to it. Same as one who really hates the doctor takes calm spirit, or some one who hates being slugged takes the perks for its counter. That is what perks are, its the player trying to either cover their own weakness or trying to implement counter play to another strategy. Gen Rush is a thing and is fine as long as the other side has options and strategies to try and counter play it. Perk choose is just one step towards that, and noed happens to be one of the best options at the moment.
Except the doctor, calm spirit, or perks to counter slugging aren't massive, game breaking issues. Gen rush is and it needs a real fix, not a band-aid. But at the same time, I've seen comments, one in this very discussion, that says NOED 'punishes' gen rush, as if survivors doing the only objective to escape warrants punishment. And even if NOED is a counterplay to a broken gameplay mechanic, than it isn't a very good one. Even if you get a kill out of it, the game was still over stupidly quick.
I will agree that the game can go by too fast at times, the killer is always the one counting down how much time every thing takes them to do given the nature of the game. However as some might see it as punishing I see it as setting up a last line of defense, but perspectives differ for differ people. Tomato Tamato.
In terms of fixing gen rush as an element, do the devs want it fixed or is it acceptable to them. Some people don't like it, just like some people don't like camping (stratgic camping! Not talking bout 1st hook face camping). However its a part of the game but why? One reason I can think of is the fact that DBD is a simplistic game. If you add gen time to fix gen rush survivors complain "oh i have to hold m1 even longer now". Secondary objectives is often suggested for it, which is what noed and hex's offer. How do you address the issue then? Noed mere existence can cause some people to stop and do totems regardless if its used or not, and that is more effective than even ruin. However its all a game to game kinda thing, case their are so many variables to try and balance.
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@Poweas said:
@TeaLeaf said:
@Poweas said:
@TeaLeaf said:
There is some lower TR on slower killers, though I personally wouldn't mind seeing a lower tower radius even on some fast killers, specifically the default states on Pig and Wraith; given they are suppose to be -ambush- killers. Pig might be able to completely mask her terror radius already, but bump her down to the 24m when shes upright and I think shed excel with M&A and whispers (so you know when ya need to stealth in some situations), allowing her to have a bit better map pressure while still leaving her with proper ambush play.Wraith has none while invisible. That's good enough for him.
Eh I suppose, but really given how low teir wraith is already I honestly don't think it would hurt that much to toss him a few more scraps. Given his power any way it would be a minor advantage at best. Oh but on the pig ... well a man can dream... a man can dream.
Wraith is mid tier. He shuts down loops, decent map pressure, good for jumpscares, mind games, good tracking since he can hear more while cloaked and a good Wraith is unbelievably scary to face. I strongly disagree with you
Thats fine, though I don't see how he has good tracking in his base kit. Wraith has some good map pressure due to his speed boost the rest I don't see with out heavy reliance on addons which is another matter.
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@ShrimpTwiggs said:
I hate this 'punish genrush' mentality. That's the only objective survivors have to open the gates. What your essentially saying is "it punishes survivors for doing their objective as fast and efficiently as possible."I agree that genrush is an issue, but stop defending band-aid fixes. The devs need to actually fix it. So what if NOED nets you a few kills? The game was still over in five minutes after waiting who knows how long with how inconsistent lobbies are..
Noed isn't a anti-gen rush mentality its a counter play to it. Same as one who really hates the doctor takes calm spirit, or some one who hates being slugged takes the perks for its counter. That is what perks are, its the player trying to either cover their own weakness or trying to implement counter play to another strategy. Gen Rush is a thing and is fine as long as the other side has options and strategies to try and counter play it. Perk choose is just one step towards that, and noed happens to be one of the best options at the moment.
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@Poweas said:
@TeaLeaf said:
There is some lower TR on slower killers, though I personally wouldn't mind seeing a lower tower radius even on some fast killers, specifically the default states on Pig and Wraith; given they are suppose to be -ambush- killers. Pig might be able to completely mask her terror radius already, but bump her down to the 24m when shes upright and I think shed excel with M&A and whispers (so you know when ya need to stealth in some situations), allowing her to have a bit better map pressure while still leaving her with proper ambush play.Wraith has none while invisible. That's good enough for him.
Eh I suppose, but really given how low teir wraith is already I honestly don't think it would hurt that much to toss him a few more scraps. Given his power any way it would be a minor advantage at best. Oh but on the pig ... well a man can dream... a man can dream.
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@ClogWench said:
TeaLeaf said:I said this on another post but I will say it again, They don't like Noed because its a good perk and it punishes gen rushing aka helps counter play it. The issue is Noed is balanced for high rank play, where it can either slow the game down a little at high rank as people deal with dull totems or net the killer a few kills when the gates are powered they would not other wise be able to get in a 3-4 mins rush. This goes very well with non-top tier killers. Its at lower ranks however you find the perk can slaughter newer players who don really understand the game yet and generally are less skilled. It also makes it where if a person combines it with camping a single target when the gates are open, to ensure usually that 1 kill at least when the rest of the match went fubar and survivors are forced with a feeling of helplessness. Survivors are very not use to having feelings of helplessness in this game despite the supposed nature of the game or being put in a situation where they should choose to cut their losses, noed can give a killer the power to make survivors make hard chooses under specific circumstances. Given the general self entitlement and toxisity of the community as well, this can be very amplified by the vocal minority who really don't want balance.
That's actually the first good criticism I've seen of NOED. It's a lot harder for new survivors to handle because often times they struggle to get 5 gens done in the first place, so doing that and 5 totems is a pretty hefty task if you can't genrush well.
It's honestly the big issue with the game overall in terms of balance. We have for survivors 4 areas, High skill vs low skill, and solo vs swf. Every time you balance for one area you mess up the other spectrum. High ranks will exploit the game to where killers won't bother or use the most desperate tactics for lack of any other options. If you balance for high skill its a harsh type of learning low skill and solo have to deal with. In the end, given the single mode of play the game offers the only option is to balance for higher skilled players and keep the game alive.
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I said this on another post but I will say it again, They don't like Noed because its a good perk and it punishes gen rushing aka helps counter play it. The issue is Noed is balanced for high rank play, where it can either slow the game down a little at high rank as people deal with dull totems or net the killer a few kills when the gates are powered they would not other wise be able to get in a 3-4 mins rush. This goes very well with non-top tier killers. Its at lower ranks however you find the perk can slaughter newer players who don really understand the game yet and generally are less skilled. It also makes it where if a person combines it with camping a single target when the gates are open, to ensure usually that 1 kill at least when the rest of the match went fubar and survivors are forced with a feeling of helplessness. Survivors are very not use to having feelings of helplessness in this game despite the supposed nature of the game or being put in a situation where they should choose to cut their losses, noed can give a killer the power to make survivors make hard chooses under specific circumstances. Given the general self entitlement and toxisity of the community as well, this can be very amplified by the vocal minority who really don't want balance.
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There is some lower TR on slower killers, though I personally wouldn't mind seeing a lower tower radius even on some fast killers, specifically the default states on Pig and Wraith; given they are suppose to be -ambush- killers. Pig might be able to completely mask her terror radius already, but bump her down to the 24m when shes upright and I think shed excel with M&A and whispers (so you know when ya need to stealth in some situations), allowing her to have a bit better map pressure while still leaving her with proper ambush play.
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@fluffybunny said:
@TeaLeaf said:
@fluffybunny said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@fluffybunny said:
I believe there are two camps. One doesn't like it because they're bad and it makes them feel bad and one doesn't like it 'cause they believe it carries killers who aren't too good at the game.How does one get caught and downed by a bad killer? Unless of course, one is a bad survivor.
NOED gives killers a boost in speed and a one-hit down. How does one get DSed by a bad survivor? The purpose of those perks at this time is to give the killer or the survivor an easy mode. You're moving faster AND getting a one hit down. If you can't get anyone or everyone gets out with those conditions, I don't know what to tell you. It's like they're putting on training wheels and you're still tipping over the bike.
I don't agree with NOED giving you an easy mode as you do have drawbacks to it. You are literately giving up a perk for the majority of the game except the last bit of end game. It being both cleansable and having no effect through the majority of the game i would argue isn't a horrible balance. A little tweaking perhaps could be done. It suggests to me more a change of strategies though, that stealth becomes the more desired style once those gates are powered.
People often use it if they don't have good perks, aren't used to/comfortable with a killer, or are generally bad. We have cases where the killer kinda needs it 'cause they need a buff, but those are cases where I've seen people using the perk. Personally, I don't usually care if NOED is used. It's annoying on good killers (like Nurse or Billy), but you can usually sense it coming a mile away. I just know some have issues with it 'cause it gives people an easy kill at the very least, even if they play the game poorly. I've seen people compare it to Adrenaline. Do you think that would be a more apt comparison?
Hmm perhaps so, and I can see the hate for it in lower rank especially. Not quite sure why Billy would have it since he has so much map pressure and a 1 hit KO already, but on the nurse yeah.
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@fluffybunny said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@fluffybunny said:
I believe there are two camps. One doesn't like it because they're bad and it makes them feel bad and one doesn't like it 'cause they believe it carries killers who aren't too good at the game.How does one get caught and downed by a bad killer? Unless of course, one is a bad survivor.
NOED gives killers a boost in speed and a one-hit down. How does one get DSed by a bad survivor? The purpose of those perks at this time is to give the killer or the survivor an easy mode. You're moving faster AND getting a one hit down. If you can't get anyone or everyone gets out with those conditions, I don't know what to tell you. It's like they're putting on training wheels and you're still tipping over the bike.
I don't agree with NOED giving you an easy mode as you do have drawbacks to it. You are literately giving up a perk for the majority of the game except the last bit of end game. It being both cleansable and having no effect through the majority of the game i would argue isn't a horrible balance. A little tweaking perhaps could be done. It suggests to me more a change of strategies though, that stealth becomes the more desired style once those gates are powered.
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Its 50/50. Survivor whines, killers then gripe at them whining. Killer whines, surviors then gripe at them for whining.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KquFZYi6L0Nods as if wise
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@HavelmomDaS1 said:
Because it's frustrating as solo to have team mates who don't cleanse totems.
Against swf I don't see an issue with noed, everyone can communicate where and how many are left.
Against solos it's dirty, unless you are such a terrible bad killer and give them enough time without pressuring.This also brings up another point and a crucial issue with the game at its base, DBD can't be balanced perk wise really because we have 1 mode of play and different groups to caters. High Skill vs Low SKill, SWF vs Solo. Though they are trying to increase communication to bring Solo up to SWF, and I think to balance around that element. If that happens the game might get a better idea of balance, but as it is ATM it is SUPER hard to balance for one group and not mess up the other.
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I like Hybrid, Tyd, and Monto my self.
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They want it nerfed because its a good perk and it punishes gen rushing aka helps counter play it. The issue is Noed is balanced for high rank play, where it can either slow the game down a little at high rank as people deal with dull totems or net the killer a few kills when the gates are powered they would not other wise be able to get in a 3-4 mins rush. This goes very well with non-top tier killers. Its at lower ranks however you find the perk can slaughter newer players and generally less skilled ones. It also makes it where if a person combines it with camping a single target when the gates are open, to ensure usually that 1 kill at least when the rest of the match when fubar. Survivors are very not use to having feelings of helplessness or being put in a situation where they should choose to cut their losses, noed can give a killer the power to make hard chooses under specific circumstances. Given the general self entitlement and toxisity of the community as well, this can be very amplified.
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There are a lot of "conduct rules" honestly which are ... well.. just a bunch of BS. A lot of times people will whine after game and try to get you to play in a sub-optimal way because they died. For example most survivors complain about face camping/camping, regardless of the context or stage of the game. Many expect you to go to the other side of the map and forget about coming back, no no your being a bad player then shame shame. Forget if the survivors are litterly dive bombing the hook, your chasing some one dumb enoghe to run you right back to the hook, or its end game the gates are open and you havn't got a kill. You will taste their salt after as they try to tell you its an un-writen rule and your bad case you ruin their fun by not adhering to it. In short... find your style and have fun. Don't worry about any rules not directly implemented by mechanics. Be a nice killer, be a try hard, be what you wanna be long as your having fun.
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Make it so killer dosn't lose addons and offerings as survivors when D/C's happen and its fine, its free points and let them go on their way.
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I really think killers should be competent with out any addons, running "vanilla" should be fine and not a handicap. Those which change powers by adding an effect or how the power works gives you so much more variety.
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@Kaalaxi said:
I think you should only be able to see boxes you've come across.A fair compromise I think. No aura at all would suddenly mean her head traps can... kill people!
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When i was a newb I thought this was a scary horror game. Then i found it to be tag simulator with a Halloween theme/skin.