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The change to Mad Grit long ago is what caused me to pick it up as part of a meme build (along with Agitation and Iron Grasp). These days, said meme build is one I have been using for the past several months, so...yeah.
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@Justalittlepeeck said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1715687#Comment_1715687
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1715688#Comment_1715688
they were teasing something related to ST in their twitter quite a lot recently
I'm still confused, admittedly. What exactly ended up being teased in the end?
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What are you referring to, exactly?
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I'm willing to bet that someone misinterpreted how the RBTs work. I've had multiple people who tried to run out with an active Trap, die, and then postgame go "######### I thought you can leave through the exit gates with Traps now."
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Are you the one who complained that I was being toxic for body blocking the exit gate switch as the Pig yesterday? :P
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Nah, it's not that hard to play around.
@GHOSTfaceP3 said:
No people who can’t hear use that perk it’s actually needed
If only BHVR would implement some of the visual cues from the mobile game.
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I'm just not very good at Survivor period. I will step into many traps, and I will get caught because I am playing around a nonexistent trap.
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It sucks, but I just move on pretty quickly. I get more salty if I go 1-2 in Magic Arena draft with what I perceive to be a good deck.
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What's a mural? What did I just buy?
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A toggle to make every Killer sound like Clown
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1711588#Comment_1711588
As a Survivor a am perpetually between 7-9 (I got to a 6 once for a few days). I'm a Rank-4 Killer driving for Rank-1. The biggest thing holding back Wraith as a Killer is how Players use him, not his toolkit. I've fought so many Wraiths in the last month it isn't even funny. In my experience, potent or baby Wraiths don't do the same Generator patrols as other Killers. Because of their invisibility, they tend to be a bit more random. They are all over the place because they can afford to be in general. The Wraiths that I fought that did the basics, i.e. regular patrols and taking information Perks made very swift work of us.
How good is he when you hit the Red Ranks? I've nod idea as I'm not a Red Rank Survivor. But I don't judge a Killer on how they perform at the very top of the pyramid. I judge them on how they do middle of the pack. The recent numbers released didn't show the Wraith doing that badly at all, no where NEAR the bottom.
I think the biggest thing holding him back is the fact that in a chase, he is a vanilla M1 killer.
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IMO nope. SWF breaks it, and it's terrible in solo play. There's no reasonable middle ground with the card.
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@DCash said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1707837#Comment_1707837
They are correct though. Burger king Myers has always been with the vanity mirror. Tombstone Myers is tombstone Myers.
Lol, I used to think "Burger King Myers" referred to Scratched Mirror Myers builds because it was a reference to how the Burger King would sneak up on people and ambush them with a Whopper.
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@Sam_Angel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/772395#Comment_772395
This would guarantee a 4k for every killer who chooses to slug, how is that fair?
Why you necro dead thread
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IMO, she is not strong (though that won't stop me from from playing her). I think her powers are either inconsistent (her Traps) or unreliable (her ambush). Also, she has a lot of add-ons that aren't just bad but downright trash.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1706384#Comment_1706384
No they haven’t. Please feel free to provide a link of the devs saying survivors hiding from the killer is bannable.
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I think part of the problem here is that the AFK crow system is inadequate at preventing Survivors from holding the game hostage in this manner. The crows need to eventually call out players if no one does gens or gets into chases for too long, not just players who remain in one section too long without taking any actions.
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My lawyer has instructed me to tell everyone that I don't know what it means to "bope the snot." :)
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I appreciate the attempts made to boop my snoot. Makes my job easier. ;)
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1704280#Comment_1704280
Again unreliable data is not the same as incomplete data. There is nothing unreliable about these charts, you just can't draw a conclusion EXCLUSIVELY from them is what the devs are saying. However if previous data lines up as does my experience then that should be enough to convince a reasonable person that Freddy is too strong.
Disagree. One can certainly make arguments over whether a character is balanced or not using evidence. The charts being presented are simply poor evidence and don't really help the point being made, regardless of what that point may be.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1704251#Comment_1704251
"Literally the only thing I take issue with is you going "See, the chart confirms I am right." The reason I keep bringing it up is that you are pushing back against that point specifically."
The fact that it is consistent as it is WITH PREVIOUS DATA means that yes, it does confirm something. Couple with my experience and my points then it is very clear that the charts suggest something, that something being "Freddy is too strong".
You are fighting back to derail the thread and nothing else. Don't sit there and tell me otherwise there is literally no reason for you to reply as much as you do repeating the same statement that several of us now have pointed out is just flat out wrong.
No reasonable person would sit here and say "yea I agree with you but that chart means nothing".
No because they've said the exact same thing about the previous data for the same reason. Unreliable data matching up with previous unreliable data doesn't suddenly make both sets of data reliable.
I keep replying arguing about the same thing because you (and others) keep contesting the one thing that I take issue with. The fact that several people agree with you doesn't mean any more than the fact that several people agree with me.
The chart is not reliable data. I don't need to believe Freddy is strong, weak, balanced, or anything in between those things to believe that.
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1704227#Comment_1704227
If those are significant factors then they would have mentioned them when justifying why a killer doesn't need a buff. Because just about every killer can be affected by all those factors. Michael is no different.
The devs said so. @Peanits @MandyTalk can confirm this. They never factor in dc matches when compiling in these stats.
What I am saying is that those factors ARE looked into when discussing a Killer's given kill rates. If Michael is deemed to be in an acceptable position, then sure. But it ain't because of this one chart. It's because of far more specific and detailed data that they have to draw their conclusion from.
If they straight-up said that, then that's certainly fair and I'll concede that part.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1704212#Comment_1704212
"I'm not using the chart bit to argue that your overall points regarding Freddy are wrong."
Yes you are. You continuously default to this and have not ONCE actually addressed my argument. The fact you keep replying to me or anyone that challenges your false interpretation of the dev's statement just further demonstrates that. Saying it once would have been enough, but you keep bringing it up, despite me or anyone else pointing out that hey, actually there is something to this data as is correlates strongly with previous data, that should at least be enough for the devs to say to themselves "we should investigate this further".
"Just off the top of my head, Dc rates, perk builds, add-on usage, SWF, offerings, maps."
DC rates - First I think that DC's weren't included, IIRC they said that about previous charts, but even if it was that would just suggest there is a problem with the killer because lots of people don't want to play against them.
Perk builds - Irrelevant as we can assume this for other killers yet Freddy is still ahead by a sizeable margin. Plus when we DO consider perk builds, Freddy literally has one of the most oppressive builds in the game via Ruin, Undying, Thana, Sloppy, Swing Chains, and Jump Rope (which you don't even need all that to make it work you can swap out some stuff too).
Add-on usage - Again irrelevant but that's because the only add-ons worth using on Freddy are chains/ropes and paint brush. I bet if we looked at add-on usage for Freddy those add-ons would be clear and above all the others combined. I am positive of this.
SWF - Already said how a 4 man SWF is more broken than Freddy, literally no killer can compete against this. But if we just assume for a moment that all killers have equal numbers of SWF games then Freddy is still ahead.
Offerings - Again I remember them saying mori's didn't count this was just sacc's, but I could be wrong. Despite that, the only offerings that affect the game are mori's and maps.
Maps - Irrelevant because we are looking at an average.
We want to look at the WHOLE. Anyone can point to a super specific setup and say anything they want. "Wraith on Lery's with Ruin, Noed, silent bell, aura read while invis, Undying, and Sloppy is OP against solo players using adept perks." That's literally your argument right now. We can't look at specific types of games we have to look at the whole, and as such the chart is actually the best representation of the average Freddy performance. If his average performance is clearly above all other killers for 2 data dumps in a row, you seriously don't see anything wrong with that? Really? You are going to sit there and tell me that means nothing while saying that this exact specific setup does? It is illogical.
"Yes you are."
...no, I'm not. The reason I am not addressing your other arguments is that I don't take issue with your other arguments. Literally the only thing I take issue with is you going "See, the chart confirms I am right." The reason I keep bringing it up is that you are pushing back against that point specifically.
What if I told you that I am not against the notion that Freddy is too strong? What does that change as far as this argument I am having?
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1704212#Comment_1704212
They don't count dc matches when compiling these stats. They didn't mention perk builds, swf, offerings, maps etc when justifying Nurse's low kill rate. They just talked about her high skill cap which makes her hard to master.
So I don't believe any of those were factors.
Those have to be factors with regards to balancing because when determining whether something needs to be re-balanced, you need the context to figure out HOW it might need to be rebalanced.
Also, source on "They don't count dc matches when compiling these stats?"
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1704176#Comment_1704176
You are strawmaning because you are focusing entirely on my presentation of a chart despite the fact I barely reference it in my points. Like continuously even when me or others have pointed out that "do not draw conclusions" is different than "the charts are meaningless". They are in a vacuum. They aren't when coupled with previous data and other evidence.
The mere fact you have been saying the same tired nonsense for 7 pages now without EVER actually talking about the topic just proves your goal is to strawman and derail the topic. IDGAF what the devs said, these charts have meaning when you can see a very clear pattern with Freddy (highest kill rate by a significant margin for all ranks AND red ranks previously).
Stop trying to derail the thread maybe actually address my arguments. You know full well what you are trying to do, and you keep repeating yourself as if that will make you right and completely negate my entire argument. News flash... it doesn't.
That's not strawmanning. I'm not using the chart bit to argue that your overall points regarding Freddy are wrong. I am saying the chart bit is not good evidence and that's it.
@Dwight_Fairfield said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1704179#Comment_1704179
This is your point of view so please explain it to me with some examples. What kind of internal factors are they neglecting to mention for Mikey when utilizing his kill stats as a reason to deny him a buff?
Just off the top of my head, Dc rates, perk builds, add-on usage, SWF, offerings, maps.
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1704119#Comment_1704119
They didn't mention any internal stats. The rationalization was Mikey is bringing home the kills based on his stats so he's in a good spot and doesn't need changes.
With the Nurse's stats they explained her high skill cap and how so many people try and fail with her because she is hard to learn. That's why her kill rate is so low. Especially for console players who make up the majority of the player base. That makes sense for her stats even though she is the strongest killer.
They offered no such insights into Mikey's stats when denying him a buff simply because the stats say he brings home a high kill rate. They also said his power is unique (so are most killers even the weak ones). They said they always get positive feedback about Mikey from the community. That I believe is true since most people seem to love playing as or against Mikey. Cannot say the same for Freddy.
Those ARE the stats they are referring to, though. They're not just using this very basic chart that lacks a lot of factors as their measuring stick for balance.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1703543#Comment_1703543
The pattern comes from the PREVIOUS data dump where Freddy also had the highest kill rate by a wide margin, both in all ranks AND red ranks (there were 2 charts). This coupled with my experience playing as and against him I can very easily point out the problems, as my experience is pretty consistent with the data dumps.
The straight up fact is that Freddy has too much in his basekit. @TAG and @Weck can say "don't draw conclusions" all they want, they fail to understand, somehow, that such a statement does NOT mean the data is useless. They are strawmaning nothing else, and unless they have a counter point to my actual arguments they are just being spiteful.
It kinda does, though. I'm not strawmanning at all because I am telling you what the devs are saying, and you are kinda just ignoring it. I'm not presenting a tangential argument and using that to refute your primary claim.
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Trying to make the hook save, eh? Not on my watch! TELEPORT
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1702354#Comment_1702354
If you watched that Q&A stream my question was the very first one that was answered. The one about updating/buffing Myers. The answer I was given was they looked at Mikey's stats and saw he was in the top half of performing killers. Just like on those charts. So based on that they don't feel he needs any changes to his base kit.
So why can they use those stats to make a judgement like that about Myers but not Freddy?
They have internal stats that give a much more detailed picture of how things are faring with regards to balance. It's not just "oh, he's got X kill percentage? He's fine."
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@IronWill said:
From experience I can tell why. Legit 99% of all Pig players I face play the same. They will down someone, put on trap and hook and then they will either directly tunnel that person off hook or simply camp the boxes.
The RNG part of the masks neds to go, same as her ability to see the boxes. Freddy can't see his "boxes" either so why can she? After "fixing" those 2 issues, give her some buff but atm she is just as annoying to face as Hag imho.
Freddy doesn't get anything out of seeing his boxes because there are multiple ways to wake someone up. so checking drawers is useless.
Contrary to popular belief, ignoring the Trapped Survivor 100% of the time isn't the best idea. Allowing a Trapped Survivor to work on boxes nearly risk-free means that the amount of potential stall time you get (since that is still random, to be fair) depends on a Survivor's efficiency and willingness to respect the boxes. It is useful to route your gen pressure so that you are swinging by a box if you can help it. Pushing someone off a box incidentally can potentially add some much-needed stall time as long as you aren't going super out of your way to do so (or in some cases even be the difference maker between a Trap kill or not). And if you catch them in an easy-to-down position, it is in your best interest to do so. Part of the point of the boxes, in addition to giving Survivors additional objectives to do for gen stall, is to put Survivors in a vulnerable spot where they have to eventually leave themselves open so they can try and take off the thing that will inevitably kill them.
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Purely anecdotal, but even in red ranks, I found myself getting strings of 3-4ks without ever using my ambush attack once (i.e. I'm basically playing a vanilla M1 killer as far as chases). And this is with a friggin' meme build (Agitation + Iron Grasp + Mad Grit + Surge). I can't prove this (and I don't intend to), but I feel like there are just a LOT of not-good Survivors at high ranks.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
@TAG it’s also worth noting that @thesuicidefox proposals and conclusions are borne of comparison from being both a seasoned old Freddy main and a seasoned current Freddy main.
Like thesuicidefox i mained both versions of Freddy, and the devs went too far and bloated Freddy’s kit. It’s been echoed on these forums before by other old Freddy mains that the rework is too much.
I'm not arguing for or against Freddy being too strong. I am arguing that one should not use the chart as evidence. That's it.
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@Darst04 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1703128#Comment_1703128
I agree that the charts shouldn't be read so on the nose, as the problem with stats in a game like these is it doesn't consider all of the variables, however not taking anything from the chart would be a waste and it probably wouldn't have been posted then like with what Kind_Lemon stated.
It was only meant to be a little fun fact thing, not something to use as evidence of game balance or lack thereof. It was posted as-is because the devs weren't trying to prove anything with it. It's fine for what it's trying to be; it's simply not trying to be meaningful data.
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@Darst04 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1703054#Comment_1703054
The point of a quote is that it's directly from the source, so although quoting him there does bring some credit it doesn't entirely give just to say that the same could be same about this chart, as the other chart/graph that the quote is from could be something entirely different.
It was also in reference to a chart detailing kill rates (among other things). Every time the devs release a chart detailing kill rates, it always has to eventually be said not to take the charts seriously because people read way too much into them.
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@Kind_Lemon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1702354#Comment_1702354
BHVR said to be careful (i.e. don't misinterpret things).
Not being able to draw any conclusions means that the data set is worthless and should never have been published, so using data from the graph to back up an argument should not be frowned upon.
I mean, I look at the Doctor's kill rate and go, "yeah, that's because (among other things revolving around how his power interacts with the game mechanics) I kill myself on hook immediately when playing against Doctor, so that fits in with what I already know". That doesn't mean he should be purely nerfed.
I quoted Peanits straight-up saying "don't draw conclusions." Granted, it was from a different chart from a while back, but same thing.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1701373#Comment_1701373
They are giving the strongest exhaustion perk in the game additional functionality. Directly. By reworking it's interactions. Don't whattabout and compare it to anything else, because there's no comparison. It is a straight up buff because they are, and I cannot stress this enough, DIRECTLY BUFFING THE PERK WITH ADDITIONAL FUNCTIONALITY.
They are fixing it so it functions properly with the current servers.
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@xenotimebong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1702694#Comment_1702694
They have never said that their data is unreliable, they specifically said that it’s an average and therefore not good for drawing conclusions about the state of game balance from. Those are not the same thing.
In any case I’m gonna bow out of this conversation, it’s only going to frustrate me. Have a good one.
"not good for drawing conclusions about the state of game balance from"
This is pretty much what I mean when I say "not good" and "unreliable."
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1702656#Comment_1702656
The data isn't unreliable though. Unreliable data means the data itself was not clear.
But the data is not clear. It doesn't give any information at all about why the numbers may be what they are.
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@xenotimebong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1702656#Comment_1702656
Why would you assume that it’s “bad data”, or unreliable? Do you know what bad data is? Something being an average and therefore a poor candidate for making statements about the state of the game is not the same as “bad data”. This is exactly what I was talking about, people who have no idea how data is actually analysed saying “but you can’t use this data, it’s bad!” No, it’s not. Its usefulness is limited but that’s not the same as being useless.
Because they themselves have said that. They have said that those numbers are not taking into account many different factors and do not paint a clear picture of things. It's not good data with regards to drawing conclusions about balance because it is not showing why things are the way they are. Only that they are what they are.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1702641#Comment_1702641
Except I had data in form of experiences. Again you take a comment out of context. Holmes is saying don't just go on nothing. If you have SOMETHING, whatever that something is, you can consider that data. My personal experiences playing as and against the killer can be seen as data. While I didn't exactly record the details of every single game, the fact is I am most consistent with Freddy and most oppressive with Freddy compared to every single other killer suggests something. That something is supported by not 1, but 2 data reveals by the developers, the first of which included more detail stats. When looked at as a whole, I was able to identify exactly what makes him so good and articulate that in the OP, then provide clear and simple solutions.
I mean, people that hate Spirit can't articulate their argument as well as I did in the OP. They say very vague things about it, don't have a clue what the solution could be (maybe because they have a hard time identifying the actual problem), and on top of that the data doesn't support it either. So it's faulty all around.
My OP is not that at all. I have a solid well formulated points about Freddy, and while I only posted the recent data dump I could go back and get the previous ones (and I probably should... and may).
You are intentionally strawmaning my argument so you don't have to admit Freddy is too strong and needs a change. I can and will use these charts to support my claims because that's how this ######### works.
Again "do not draw conclusions" =/= "data is meaningless".
Aren't anecdotal accounts also not reliable?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1702553#Comment_1702553
I'm sure that's exactly why they post them, yes. I don't think that's a reason to discount them, though. Obviously there are a lot of factors at play, so you can't use the stats as an ordered list of how strong killers are, or something. That doesn't make it useless, though. If you see a killer that's been out for a while and has a low kill rate, for example, that might be a sign that that killer needs buffs. There could be other reasons for the numbers to look like that, but in the absence of other reasonable explanations that would explain their poor performance (like a "they booped the snoot so I can't kill them" meme) it's still a fair conclusion to come to.
The fact that it's a very broad and general set of stats with no context is what makes it not useful to draw meaningful information from. BHVR knows this, and they're okay with this because they're only putting out that information just for funsies. I don't think it's a fair conclusion to come to without looking at more detailed and specific information that BHVR has access to.
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@xenotimebong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1702628#Comment_1702628
This is exactly what I was talking about with my comment, thank you for proving my point.
But if the data is unreliable, then you SHOULDN'T use it. It's not good data. It's not WORTHLESS, but it by itself without the context of multiple factors is not useful.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1702628#Comment_1702628
He explained in very clear words what you are doing, and then you do it again.
"Do not draw conclusions" =/= "data is completely meaningless"
It's not meaningless, but it is unreliable. That's why they recommend not drawing conclusions.
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@xenotimebong said:
You’re wasting your time. People here see “don’t use these stats and immediately draw conclusions” and think that’s the same as saying “these stats cannot be used for anything and are completely meaningless”. They don’t understand that stats require some context and a desire to ask questions instead of a black and white “high/low number bad”. I mean look at how many people are saying the stats are garbage because Pig has a high kill rate, completely ignoring that there are other factors that affect kill rate besides their personal tier list.
For what it’s worth I agree, Freddy’s kit is too bloated and he deserves some small changes. Having a strong, mechanically simple killer is not a bad thing but he just has a little bit too much going for him.
I mean, I'm just gonna quote Peanits here (from an older post, to be fair):
@Peanits said:
I feel like I really need to stress this line from that post:
Please keep in mind that numbers are not everything; there are a whole bunch of factors that could influence these numbers.
To use the Spirit as an example, as we've mentioned many times before, we do not balance based on stats alone. We make sure to do our research first and there's a lot of compelling arguments for why she should have been changed.
And again, there's a bunch of different factors involved. Is Freddy overpowered, or is it just a combination of perks and add-ons that make him that strong? These are all things that need to be considered.
So just to reiterate one last time, I really would not recommend drawing any conclusions from these stats. These are averages, not specific and incredibly detailed data that you should draw any conclusions from.
So just to reiterate one last time, I really would not recommend drawing any conclusions from these stats. These are averages, not specific and incredibly detailed data that you should draw any conclusions from.
Not "wouldn't recommend solely use these to bolster your argument" or "make sure you're not only relying on these stats." Straight-up "wouldn't recommend drawing conclusions."
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@Kamizake12 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1702574#Comment_1702574
it is allowed to disable Anti Aliasing, cause we all know how trash it its.
Anyways they disabled some lines that are considered cheating, so no one can use .ini files to gain a advatange/cheat
Fair enough. I'd just be very careful with that to be safe.
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@Kamizake12 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1702426#Comment_1702426
I can't see wraith cause of my graphics settings lol (i edited the .ini file) so wraith is basically invisible to me, anyways I dont mind that change he needs some love
(i edited the .ini file)
Forgive me if I am misinterpreting, but isn't this straight-up not allowed?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1702354#Comment_1702354
I think they just don't want people on the forum to freak out tbh. You also clearly can't take results in a vacuum with Nurse being the obvious example of why; sometimes there are other factors that make the kill rate a poor representation of a killer's viability (e.g. learning curve, Rift challenges to push someone to use a killer they're less familiar with). I can't think of anything that would be artificially inflating Freddy's kill rate, though, unless people very frequently hook suicide against him because they hate playing him, or something.
They have said that they post those stats for fun, not for people to use as evidence or to make claims with.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1702479#Comment_1702479
You are still twisting their words. They don't want you to draw a conclusions SPECIFICALLY FROM CHARTS.
But if I have other evidence, including past stats and experience on both ends, and valid arguments as to what exactly is the problem and how to fix it, that is literally how you are supposed to do things. OMG. Just stop. It is a very clear with what I present there is a problem.
I am not twisting their words in any way. This is exactly what they are trying to avoid.
If you want to make arguments about Freddy being too strong and provide evidence to support that, by all means. What BHVR is discouraging is using the chart as evidence.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1702442#Comment_1702442
Again Freddy was on the top of the chart last time, AND they even gave a red rank chart which he was also on the top of by a wide margin.
There is tons of evidence to support what I'm saying. I'm not drawing this conclusion solely from this chart. Stop trying to dismiss it by taking what the devs said out of context. AND YES YOU ARE TAKING OUT OF CONTEXT because I have multiple sources to validate my claims, the chart is just 1 more in the pile.
I never once tried to make any sort of claim in this thread over the validity of the belief that Freddy is too strong. I am saying that BHVR has repeatedly discouraged people from using these stats to make any arguments.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1702406#Comment_1702406
No I'm using the chart to support something I have other evidence. What they are saying is to not purely look at the chart and draw a conclusion. EG. don't sit there and say "Nurse needs a buff". However if there was precedent for that claim, then you would use this data to support your claim. That's literally what they are doing on the back end. Coming up with a hypothesis about something in the game, looking at what is going on, then using data to validate the hypothesis and then make a change. Don't tell me they don't, I worked in game UX for a time this is exactly what gets done.
Using data to validate a claim is not the same as using data to draw a conclusion.
BHVR discourages people from using that data to go "Aha! This chart confirms XYZ!" because this data does not take a number of factors into account. They've said this time and time again whenever they put up stats like this and in fact have even questioned whether or not they should keep putting up these stats for this exact reason.