why not make it so wraith can't be seen while cloaked outside of a certain distance.
So i have seen a few buffs around about making wraith completely invisible while cloaked and i don't really think that's the best however it certainly isn't terrible, in fact the only thing i don't like about it is that it would allow you to get right on top of a survivor without them seeing you so why not solve that with a mechanic similar to Freddy.
if you made it so while cloaked wraith's "glimmer/shine" can't be seen outside of say at least 8 or at most 16 meters i think that would be an awesome buff to him since it would allow him to be a lot more stealthy and he will have an easier time getting close to survivors before they can see him and get to a loop.
He also won't be able to uncloak right on top of you as long as you pay attention but a good wraith will use cover to uncloak behind once he's close to you. this will make him a lot more viable because good survivors won't see him approaching from far away and then go to a loop so he will get more hits from finding survivors on gens.
this wouldn't affect the chase to much either but will make it so you don't know if the wraith is still on you after he cloaks and goes away or keeps his distance so that will make playing against him a lot more terrifying because you don't know where he went.
edit: i believe 16 meters is the best distance for this.
Comments
As a sorta Wraith main @ rank 16, I highly appreciate the thought. :-D
Because Wraith can be tough enough to deal with already? :) He is the FASTEST of the Stealth Killers with his Add-On(s), and a Survivor's best defense is to spot him quick to get the maximum head start.
Lmao, do you really think dealing with wraith is tough? What rank are you?
I do think wraith does need some help but I would personally disagree with this change. Perceptive players should be rewarded.
I’d much rather he move faster while cloaked.
and thats what makes him such a bad killer, good survivors always spot him early. even with this buff players can still have time to react they just can't make it to a pallet from a dead zone which is fair.
think of ghost face but take away his insta down, are all the hits he gets from being in shroud make him OP? no and ghost face gets them all the time more so than wraith because he attacks faster with less of a indicator that he is going to hit you. that will basically be wraith but with map pressure and a more react-able surprise attack if a survivor is paying attention.
preceptive players are rewarded they can see him if he's near you. thats why i said 8-16 meters and if this was implemented it would likely be at 16 meters, thats enough time if you spot him to get to a pallet at a reasonable distance.
this is to make him better at being able to get surprise hits and as he is thats very difficult unless there are wall to cover you. as he is unless there is cover you can spot him literally across the map if you have good eye sight. this wouldn't or at most barely benefit him in indoor maps this mainly to address open maps.
ive been wanting that ever since they introduced that mechanic with Freddy...
it really makes no sense that Freddy is invisible from 32m onwards, but Wraith, the guy who was DESIGNED to be invisible and not seen until he gets close, doesnt.
EDIT: fixed an error. its 32m, not 36.
but there is a difference between spotting an approaching Wraith early and constantly seeing him walk around on the other side of the map.
i mean, his cloak is supposed to be a stealth ability, but its ridiculously easy to consistently keep track of him.
at least let him stay hidden on long distances. imo a 32m radius where his husk is visible should be more than enough to spot and avoid him.
As a Survivor a am perpetually between 7-9 (I got to a 6 once for a few days). I'm a Rank-4 Killer driving for Rank-1. The biggest thing holding back Wraith as a Killer is how Players use him, not his toolkit. I've fought so many Wraiths in the last month it isn't even funny. In my experience, potent or baby Wraiths don't do the same Generator patrols as other Killers. Because of their invisibility, they tend to be a bit more random. They are all over the place because they can afford to be in general. The Wraiths that I fought that did the basics, i.e. regular patrols and taking information Perks made very swift work of us.
How good is he when you hit the Red Ranks? I've nod idea as I'm not a Red Rank Survivor. But I don't judge a Killer on how they perform at the very top of the pyramid. I judge them on how they do middle of the pack. The recent numbers released didn't show the Wraith doing that badly at all, no where NEAR the bottom.
thats a lot of distance too much imo thats why i said 8 to 16 meters because in that range wraith has a better chance to get to the survivor unnoticed. anything above 16 meters will result in survivors being able to spot him early and get to a pallet at a great distance that they otherwise wouldn't have gotten to the same or slightly lesser degree then how often that happens right now. im not saying that won't happen anymore if it was at 16 meters im just saying that the distance has to be shortish for this buff to be good.
If this was implemented i think 16 meters is the sweet spot and if they introduced addons to reduce that it should only go to at most 8 meters and it should be an ultra or very rare addon.
I went back and reviewed the Pick/Kill Stats and Wraith is picked about 4% of the time and his Kill percentage is 66.6%. That puts him 10% above the bottom Killer and 10% less than the top Killer. In short, he is part of a very wide middle field. The notion that he is weak or suffering has turned out to be as inaccurate as the idea that the Pig isn't good. She turns out to be doing quite well. People used to tell me my Myers was bad too, but lo' and behold, he isn't.
I just think there is this risk where perception become reality. People say the Wraith is weak and has problems long enough and people start to believe it. The numbers say otherwise. He is fine. I say leave his cool Predator distortion in.
I play him pretty often at high ranks and really the only times i can get land an uncloaking hit besides in a chase is if they are on a gen that has very limited line of sight like the ones in jungle gyms. if a gens in the open you can't sneak up on people they just go to a pallet when you try to approach. this wouldn't change how often you get hits on gens with limited line of sight by that much its mainly to give survivors less information on his location so he can be more unpredictable and so he can have more reasonable chases when approaching survivors in the open.
also you have to take those stats with a grain of salt since wraith is the most picked killer in lower ranks and killers often tend to dominate those ranks as well. he isn't good at high rank unless you get an indoor map and even then he isn't OP. As said this will simply make him better in open maps.
I think the biggest thing holding him back is the fact that in a chase, he is a vanilla M1 killer.
Well, technically Spirit is the fastest stealth killer, it's just that she can only use her speed and stealth in short bursts while Wraith can be stealthed an indefinite amount of time. Spirit can cross short distances more quickly than Wraith can, but Wraith can cross long distances faster than Spirit.
dude even the devs said not to use the stats as reference because they don't show the game in reality. its either a 4k/3k or less then 1k which is why the kill rates across all killers is mostly above 65%. if we are to look at how well a good wraith does compared to huntress or deathslinger he is obviously worse but because he is played more and has a lower skill cap he can get more kills across the board where as huntress and deathslinger have a lot of players who just suck at them. its kinda hard to suck at wraith XD.
besides there is no reason to not buff him, he is underwhelming so regardless of the stats he is still eligible for a buff.
spotting him early is part of his counterplay though.
thats why he is barely visible in the first place, so aware players can see him approach and avoid him.
if you wanna sneak up to them to that distance, you should put some work into it, not just ask the devs to give it to you for free.
32m (the size of a normal Terror Radius) is imo a great distance, as it allows survivors to spot Wraiths who dont really care about their pathing, but you wont be seen approaching them from half the map away.
I'm just not sure he needs to be any better. Let's be honest, it isn't his distortion that is really giving him away. It is Spine Chill and the SWF. All the Stealth Killers are feeling this impact more and more. Remember, I'm a Myers exclusive Killer until I hit Rank-1. I prefer Spooky Myers as my build. The biggest issue I have to overcome is Spine Chill and the SWF's 5th Perk (Comms). Even if you did shrink the range that the Wraith's distortion becomes visible, it wouldn't help you against anyone but the POOR Solos who don't need another anvil dropped on their head. :) How do I know this? I play Solo Que, we few, we proud, we determined to play the game without Seal Team-6 Coordination. :)
The SWF will still give them your position. Spine Chill will still tell them the second you line up and they will start moving. I just think your concern about efficacy in this case is misplaced.
then this does nothing, do know how large 32 meters is? the point of this is so players dont see him at long distances until is close, 16 meters is close but not by much good players can still see him at that range and get to a pallet in time.
this is to address him in open maps if its at 32 meters it might as well not do anything because players will see him from afar and do what they normally do against him.
there is nothing wrong with a slightly strong buff to an underwhelming killer. perceptive players are still rewarded it just wont be as easy to spot him as quickly to get good distance and there is nothing wrong with that.
edit: go into a custom match and play against a hag with monitor and abuse. when you hear the TR that is the range you will be able to see him. tell me thats not a good range and its enough distance to spot him coming in the open without you being able to get a crazy amount of distance from running as soon as you see him.
swf wont be able to give away your position as easily because you wont be visible unless they are close to you
spine chill will work on wraith regardless of what they do to him because thats just how the perk works against stealth killers
it is VERY much so the distortion that gives him away, you can literally see him across the map like only cover prevents you from seeing him so this combined with swf always gives you position which this buff greatly lessens.
this literally addresses what you say it wont and as said nothing can be done about spine chill as it works like that against all stealth killers. will this make him be able to deal with swf maybe not but its a buff that will help him without making him op. it helps get surprise hits and makes him a true fast stealth killer.
Look, I'm not that invested in this issue. I think it is a fruitless pursuit that even if you convinced them to do it, it would have negligible effect on games. The issue is this is yet another coding thing we are asking them for and I know from personal experience that what we THINK should be an easy fix often turns out to be a massive job. There are far too many other things that need addressing, when Wraith isn't actually in that bad a place. There are things I'd love for my Myers. I think his SILLY Stomping steps and breathing can be heard far too loudly and early. I learned to live with it. :) It isn't worth asking them to change when there are bigger fish to fry.
I understand that you are invested in the Wraith. That is why I'm pointing out that I also have things I'd love for Myers (my investment) but I want to put into perspective that there are other options. Big open maps are a challenge to you. Sure.... it might be one of those few times the Wraith has to try to use terrain when he can too. It means you might have to play against type. I have those maps also. I kind of think, and this is just my opinion, that there should be maps and situations that put us out of our comfort zone. Do you think I like pulling a big empty map when I'm playing Spooky Myers? :) It happens all the time. Someone blocks my Map offering, or their offering wins the coin toss. The Myers abides, so can the Wraith.
i know how much 32m is, im fully aware of the distance.
the question is, do you have any idea how short 16m would be?
thats basically a free hit you are asking for rn.
as i said, i do NOT want this to be a "i want free hits" tool, i want this to be a QoL change that fits his power and makes sense to implement. one where ive been wondering for a long time now why it isnt a thing in the first place. im not aiming to buff him majorly, he is mostly fine the way he is right now.
and if everyone gets notified of a normal killer within a 32m range to them, i dont see why aware survivors shouldnt be able to see your husk in the same range. its not like they get told you are there like with every other killer. there are no audio clues, there is no huge outstanding playmodel with a red shimmer in front of it, you should be able to get close to them relatively easily, as you currently already can.
i say its BS how they can see you on the other side of the map, even though you are cloaked. the info they should be able to get on you in that state should be limited (limited - not fully taken away), so seeing nothing of you outisde of 32m to them would do that job just great.
again: if you want to get close, at least put a little work into it by avoiding sightlines. dont just ask the devs to do your job for you.
as i put go look into that distance yourself and for aware player 16 meters is a good distance. 32 does nothing other than limit info at long range so this buff will do almost nothing in open maps which what im trying to address.
you want aware players to always be awarded even if they spot him late i want there to still be a chance for wraith to get close enough to land a hit as well as limit the range survivors see him so he is an actual stealth killer in open maps. this buff does nothing unless the player is in the open.
are you really telling me that if a player see's wraith and i'll be generous at 24 meters or over than you will be able to get to them before they make it pretty much any pallet in the other direction. the only way you getting to them first is speed addons which are his best addons and even then its not guaranteed as always.
that doesn't do anything then, again this is so he has a better chance to get player in the open. 32 meters is practically the distance you see him at anyway most of the time in the match. again this buff doesn't do anything unless you have a clear line of sight in the direction wraith is so enclosed areas or gens on the side of the map will barely see any changes to how you see wraith sneak up on you.
i dont see a reason for it not to be 16 meters, it doesn't make him OP and you dont get free hits if you actually knew how much that distance is.
edit: if you want it can be AT MOST 24 meters but as i've said i believe 16 meters is the best distance otherwise this fails to help him get close in open maps.
okay, again: i am NOT trying to buff him, as he is mostly fine the way he currently is. i am aiming for a QUALITY OF LIFE update.
"you want aware players to always be awarded even if they spot him late" that makes no sense, your entire idea is based on exactly that.
"i want there to still be a chance for wraith to get close enough to land a hit" exactly, thats what you want: free hits. and i keep telling you to stop asking the devs to give you free hits, its not going to happen. put some work into it yourself if you want to achieve a hit. sneaking up on them and getting an early hit is already very easy with him, you just want there to be no chance of avoiding him anymore - especially with windstorm + swift hunt add ons.
"are you really telling me that if a player see's wraith and i'll be generous at 24 meters or over than you will be able to get to them before they make it pretty much any pallet in the other direction" - no. thats the point. if you get seen, they avoid you. if i were to rewrite that sentence, it would basically be "survivors should not be able to reach a pallet / window before i hit them when they spot me", aka asking for free hits.
ill sum it up here:
getting close to a survivor is something YOU as the player should achieve.
you are not ment to always get right on top of them, just because you are cloaked, if you take a bad pathing they will (and are ment to) spot you and avoid you.
stop trying to suck anything skillbased out of this game, asking the devs to introduce mechanics that do it for you. if you keep getting spotted, then rethink the way you are playing and improve.
Cause it's not his turn to get buffs.
Not even kidding, that's most likely the reason IF this is what they want for him.
If you seriously think wraiths fine as he is then after this response dont bother responding because i whole heartedly disagree with that and will argue to the death :)
your saying he doesn't need a buff based on unreliable stats that dont represent reality for a killer who is agreed to be weak by the majority of the community. take a look at nurse or huntress they obviously are worse than wraith based on stats. dont go by stats that the devs even said are not reliable for representation of how games go.
16 meters isn't a free hit im just gunna throw that at you because you dont seem to understand the distance of that then and 32 meters wont do anything for wraith who needs a buff sorry i disagree with you on him being in a good spot.
no i have repeatedly said that 16 meters is enough to get to a pallet within a reasonable distance which is a tile or two if you spot wraith because he has to come out of his cloak. that distance gives you enough time to react to him and if not then it still doesn't need to be a ridiculous 32 meters it just has to be adjusted slightly. yes his speed addons will be strong and may need looking into but that can be changed if its problematic and maybe even give him a base speed buff in cloak to compensate however this is about his base power not the addons that can be adjusted if he gets changed.
this buff isn't to standardize wraith its to BUFF him, making him a better stealth killer with mobility who you cant spot from a distance. you seem to greatly overestimate how fast wraith can close 16 meters and uncloak in the open without being seen which AGAIN is what this will mainly change about him because it wont do anything if you approach from cover. 16 metes in the open isn't a free hit i dont understand how you arrived to that because its ridiculous if the survivor is paying attention which they should be doing.
i want a better stealthy wraith you just want him to not be spotted form large distances when 32 meters itself is large. the majority of the community thinks he needs a buff what you suggest doesn't do anything for him because it wont affect chases/down time. he will be able to land more hits out of cloak yes does that make them free? no that ridiculous its not like he can instantly uncloak now he just gets to you easier from an open area and still has to uncloak behind cover or you see him not to mention spine chill still counters him and thats a common perk.
this buff suggestion sticks to what wraith is at the heart which is a high mobility stealth killer and improves the stealth aspect. that doesn't make him OP or skilless because of course a buff makes a killer better which in turn makes them easier and thats UNAVOIDABLE with wraiths basic ability. Im assuming you also think the leatherface rework makes leatherface skilless now right? because thats basically what this is but its less powerful and it doesn't do anything in a chase. Even if gets him way more hits from cloak then thats what he needs because he is weak and having a more reliable chance to start off a chase with a hit is a good buff for him.
again if it does turn out that 16 meters is too short it doesn't need that much more distance to be fair and as i said anything over 24 meters or even at that would render the buff pointless. this isn't standardize him he needs a buff and idc if you think that makes him skilless which imo stupid because it doesn't change how you play him it just makes him invisible to survivors outside a reasonable distance.
edit: i should mention that im not in the mindset of a rank 10 survivor like you are. you see a survivor on a gen you have to go for them avoiding them is dumb. survivors will spot you going for them at long distances and using cover isn't always available just take a look at any auto weaker map and if there is cover then NOTHING changes about how that encounter would have went.
The issue is, that he can be seen cross map as long as survivors know what to look for. Crotus, Autohaven, and Coldwind are bad maps for this reason.
No killer should be reliant on addons though. It's one of the reasons I've been taking a break from GF while event items take up bloodweb space lol
Most Killers have bad maps. I play Myers, and those are all rough maps on me too. The Wraith is at least harder to see coming than my tall dark and featureless.
I think his cloak is glitched. Some games I'm zoomin and getting corner hits around pallet loops, and other games I move like mollasses and feel like Huntress slow.
I would just like wraith to stop growling at survivors every two seconds like a Chihuahua, Where’s my spray bottle??