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Honestly a lot of Legion players couldn't care less that he's an M1 killer after injuring someone or that hes not that strong. Most of us just wanna run fast and stab and hit that sweet adrenaline rush that a 5 hit combo provides. Legion just lacks the speed to actually deliver on that fast paced killer fantasy. Remember that one patch where Legion didn't gain a FOV increase in their power and everyone thought he wasn't getting a speed increase in Feral Frenzy? Yikes.
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Could be that your noticing it more because your Feral Slashing more often in that mode so theres just more opportunities to get ######### over by a feature that really shouldn’t exist during feral frenzy or at the very least be made a toggle. Still equally as atrocious as it is in 1v4 just more noticeable in 2v8.
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inb4 someone says Legion is fine in their current state.But seriously, I think some of these changes are too far. Almost everything basekit you marked in the extensive category is either too strong or unnecessary.
* Decrease Legion's cooldown from 15 to 10 seconds.
This is reasonable. Shorter Feral Frenzy cd would be good but it wouldn't really fix any of their major problems.
* Every time Legion hits a survivor during Feral frenzy, their cooldown and fatigue duration after canceling their power decreases by 1 and 0.1 seconds, respectively.
Unnecessary complication I'm afraid. I really don't think shorter fatigue is the route BHVR should take to help Legion.
* Increase Legion's fatigue speed from 2.3 m/s to 3 m/s.
The reason Kaneki is faster during his cooldown is because Kaneki doesn't always get to choose where he endures that cooldown whereas Legion can always choose to be right behind a survivor. 3m/s fatigue would basically mean survivors gain virtually no distance against Legion while hes fatigued and would make him just an even more brain dead version of Kaneki even if you make him 4.4 outside of Feral Frenzy for a few seconds.
"* Feral vaults counts as normal killer vaults and, hence, get influenced by vaulting perks."
I like to imagine this was a change made for the sake of consistency and future-proofing vault perks so that any future killer that has enhanced vaults as part of their power isn't made broken by perks like Unbound.
Honestly I think Legion just needs a rework on the same scale as Clown receiving the yellow bottles. Buff Feral Frenzy by making them 6.0m/s to start off with an 8-9s duration. Let them see scratch marks and blood pools in Feral Frenzy and give them something else in addition to Feral Frenzy. Could be map mobility or chase lethality (just please don't make it 3 ai Legion members or a survivor disguise that would be so lame). -
Purple bottles hindering survivors audio and visual tracking has been a rather unappreciated part of clowns theme and I agree it could definitely use a tune up. I don’t play enough clown to know how he feels to play but I can say for certain playing against him isn’t oppressive and his chase power is mitigated heavily by the fact that every map has extremely safe pallets even with his insane invigoration speed. But maybe that’s just me.
as for his add-ons it’s shocking to me that he still has repeat add-ons despite the fact that he’s been looked at by the devs multiple times and even been given a major update to his power with the addition of the antidote. I like the changes you suggested for these addons but I’d argue you can still take it a step further as theres still a lot of room to be explored creativity with Clown’s power. Status effect addons Kerosene can and sulphuric acid vial are bottom of the barrel in creativity and offer practically no replayability or build diversity. -
Been addicted to VHS streams and videos since I saw the trailer a couple months back. Gameplay is super exciting and you’re never doing nothing for too long since crafting a weapon takes at most half the time of a generator.
I don’t even see myself returning to DbD after I get my hands on VHS. It’s just a much better designed game with passionate developers prepared to support it long term.
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2667600#Comment_2667600
The horror appeal doesn’t go away what. The theme is horror, the theme of the game has never NOT been horror and that’s what attracted most people to dbd. VHS doesn’t have anything close to that. There’s a reason why the only asymmetrical games that survive are related to horror. Friday the 13th (at its time), Dbd, identity v etc etc all have horror. Asymmetrical games that failed all lacked the horror element in order to go into a ‘wider audience’ and it just didn’t work because the wider audience doesn’t care for that stuff.
It seems we’re just not going to agree with each other. Let’s just see how VHS does. I’m betting it will do well and become a huge success ~1-2 years down the line. If it fails, then I guess you were right.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2667412#Comment_2667412
Where did you get that from, because as far as I am concerned In an interview they said they were inspired by 80s horror and slashers. Which was a more campy/fun horror during its time.
Personally I am not a fan of the “fortnite” low-poly approach when it comes to the aesthetic, but being an 80s kid, I am willing to give it a try.
There was an screenshot they shared of VHS in an unfinished state and it was just a hallway filled with blood and gore. It’s buried in one of their QnA streams. They obviously didn’t go with that in their final design for the reasons you stated, but they did dial it back on the blood/gore.
If you search up Techsmith314 in twitch you should find a couple QnA streams with the VHS devs and the screenshot should be somewhere in there.
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2667412#Comment_2667412
Yeah but here’s the thing, dead by daylights appeal was the HORROR not the action. An insane amount of people got into dead by daylight and only like it for the HORROR aspects. VHS has no horror aspects what’s so ever and tries to be a goofy comedy game which is fine but is it gonna be the dbd ender everyone says it will? Probably never. Not unless they rebuild it to be an actual horror game.
You’re forgetting the fact that the horror elements are a massive barrier to entry for many would be asymmetrical fans. Also everyone I know only plays DbD because it’s got the best mechanics and support than any other asym game, and not because of the horror elements. The horror appeal goes away 3 hours in.
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@kate_best_girl said:
Tbh HSHS had much more potential than VHS does since HSHS actually had a horror element to it. VHS lacks the horror that people like in dbd.
Simply wrong, VHS intentionally dialed back on the horror elements to make it more accessible to a broader audience. It's the same thing Fortnite did.
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Oh boy the amount of people immediately disregarding VHS because of its art style or the fact that you have to confront the monster is astonishing. I think many people on these forums are heavily underestimating VHS’s potential.
I don’t think VHS will immediately rival DBD’s numbers, but give it a year and I bet they’ll both be equal if not more people playing VHS once they realize Hellbent cares a lot about the game.
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Power is VHS shifts throughout the match. Sometimes the monster will be dominating the Teens, and then the next moment Teens have the upper hand.
VHS is not a bully simulator.
The Monster has abilities to disrupt and harass Teens, and there are multiple systems in place to make sure bullying isn't possible unless you're REALLY bad.
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2660309#Comment_2660309
So everyone queues up and one person is the Killer?
Great, this sounds like people disconnecting if they are Survivor and want to play Killer and vice-versa.
But in the end, it does not matter, the game will be irrelevant rather sooner than later.
They're wrong. You can queue up as Teen or Monster, but the monster player is hidden in the lobby and looks just like another Teen.
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So it's basically the situation where you're right behind a survivor waiting for the DH, but 3 times over. That doesn't sound fun imo. It would be fairer than Legion from 3 years ago, but probably would be just as unfun.
I'd rather they just buff FF speed and nerf fatigue. The power is perfect and doesn't need any extra stuff.
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She doesn't get any more reverse bear traps unless she brings an add-on that gives her another one.
It would be insane if she still had 4 traps with videotape.
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The characters are probably very popular.
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Yes, as someone who has played a lot of Legion, they are incredibly underwhelming. The main issues with Legion are the 4-second fatigue and the 5.2 m/s frenzy speed.
Getting outran by a freaking survivor perk is soooo embarrassing for what is supposed to be a "high-speed killer".
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Same here, I haven’t been able to take off Blood Favor since the update. I’m having so much fun with all the buffed hex perks.
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They’ve been doing both though.
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No, but blessing a hex totem takes much longer to account for the time it would've taken to cleanse it.
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I see what your trying to accomplish here and I don’t like it. IMO, this just weakens part of the kit that I enjoy and buffs the part that I dislike.
This would cause scenarios where you just go down 100% of the time against legion in certain scenarios and I don’t think that’s healthy for the game. Not at shack or a god pallet/window? Go down because legion runs at 130% speed in feral frenzy. You could literally be the best survivor in the game, but you still go down because your team fed him tokens and he’s running at you with basically bloodlust 3.
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I feel like your going to be waiting a while then. Devs have stated their okay with gen speeds atm and I have to agree with them.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2595976#Comment_2595976
To be fair, it’s not quite four hits. What happens is every time a survivor vaults or drops a pallet they are no longer counted as “running” by the game so their Deep Wound timer ticks off during those animations. Yes it’s only maybe a second’s worth of a delay, but that means if the survivor vaults/drops pallets multiple times it’s shaving off that much more of the clock. So if Legion can get them vaulting a few times it can mean only having to do 3 hits instead of 4.
Nope, that's been patched out. Happened a couple patches ago I think.
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Blessing a hex totem takes longer so it basically would take the same amount of time to cleanse and then bless the totem. This is completely fair IMO, but instead of having the hex come back after being blessed I would rather they do something else.
I suggest they allow killers to completely crush dull/blessed totems to deny boon totems once the totem in the area has been found.
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Lol, it seems many people are justifying this playstyle by saying Legion is weak. That's a terrible mindset.
Any true Legion mains out there would agree that Franks + Stab Wounds Study isn't healthy and needs to be changed.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2594196#Comment_2594196
It’s not really terrible though it’s funny as ######### to run Enduring and spirit fury and use the gloves and get stunned for 0.60 seconds and instantly breaking the pallet it’s fun as #########.
Also, really they were going to change big buckle. Ask one of the devs or mods if it’s true
Mclean said it on one of his twitch streams (he's a former DbD dev, quit recently). You can find his channel here.
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I find it pretty neat with Fire Up + Brutal Strength + Enduring. It's terrible though.
Fun fact, Big Buckle was supposed to be changed with this patch, but they didn't have enough time to go through with whatever change they wanted to make. So we're just stuck with this terrible TR reducing add-on for at least another patch.
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Oh and while I'm here, can we take a moment to remember how old Freddy could be invisible while picking up a survivor?
It was silly, but also very canonical and would always bring me into the atmosphere. Iirc Freddy in the films was able to throw around/pull people around in the real world while they were dreaming. I think it's still possible with Pill Bottle, but it just doesn't appear as often anymore :(
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@GeneralV said:
There is still time for one more:
Seeing all these old Freddy images makes me want to play the old version more and more :(
Oh well, time to binge-watch a bunch of old Freddy vids on YT.
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Tier 1 should be an add-on, maybe his “meme” add-on or something. Start at tier 2 naturally.
Allow him to fully stalk to 100% then use tier 3 when he chooses to so he doesn’t have to hold stall at 99%.
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@SasukeKun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2592039#Comment_2592039
It wouldn't be multiple killers chasing you, it would be seeing the others in apparition like the doctor.
Maybe even a new effect called like "Hysteria" (Yes i know it's a perk its an example) where sometimes you see mulitple versions of the killer or something.
It would be loosely based around that
Oh if it was that minor I wouldn’t really care. As long as Feral Frenzy is kept intact I would be happy.
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I too want old Freddy 😔
It’s never going to happen though because they spent so much time reworking him, but I will support any attempts to return old Freddy.
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Yes to unique chase music for legion.
No to their power including the entire gang. Their current power is fine it just needs a few touch-ups.
I wouldn’t mind having the entire gang hanging out around the map just chilling. Maybe cheering on the active member when they get a hit, but that’s as far as I would take it.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2591733#Comment_2591733
I mean, we don't really wanna Legion to become S tier killer from this. We just want him to perform well even against better survivors and some QoL changes.
Yep, that’s the idea. Legion doesn’t need any more additional slowdown with his power. :)
@Jarol said:
This idea would be great to see for Legion changes.
thank you! :)
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Feral Frenzy should never have lethality because it has zero counterplay. I agree they should just rework Frank’s Mixtape.
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Legion should have Cold Dirt and Joey’s Mixtape base kit.
Sounds like a lot to have a purple and a green add-on base kit but it’s literally only 1 second off a 4 second fatigue.
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@Dino7281 said:
changes above would be nice, fatigue for missing should be 4s imo, 3s when you cancel your power. So you have option to just cancel, or try to lunge to block.
I don't think destroying breakable walls with power fits to the Legion theme, but he has Iri button, where he destroyes pallets while in power, so it might work. Would be cool af tho.
"There should be a visual and auditory cue when Feral Frenzy has 2 seconds remaining."
I think this one is kinda pointless, it will just annoy your screen, you will have to watch your power anyway for last second lunge.
fatigue for missing should be 4s imo, 3s when you cancel your power. So you have option to just cancel, or try to lunge to block.
I thought about this, but honestly, I think it would just be unnecessary fluff to fatigue. It wouldn't really be a big deal if this were the case, but it doesn't really need to be there either.
I don't think destroying breakable walls with power fits to the Legion theme, but he has Iri button, where he destroyes pallets while in power, so it might work. Would be cool af tho.
I think it fits. When you think about it, Breakable Walls are the only interactable object that hinders legion while chasing a survivor in Feral Frenzy. It feels sort of weird to vault a window, then a pallet, then have to stop dead just to kick a flimsy wall. Plus like you said, it would be cool af.
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I dodge when my ping is above 100 or if everyone last-second swaps to something else with multiple medkits/toolboxes. That's pretty much it.
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@Superyoshiegg said:
I'll trade you RPD for any map of your choosing.
Seriously, I've gotten RPD like five times since the map came out four months ago. I know it was disabled for a little while, but that's still super unlucky.
It's one of my favourite maps in the game as well.
Same here. And when I finally get RPD many people just dodge or throw the match because they refuse the learn the layout.
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@Dumpstick said:
Exhaustion perks got nerfed into the ground probably long before you even started playing this game.
You obviously weren't around when Balanced Landing on Haddonfield was a thing, when you could Sprint Burst and before the killer caught up Sprint Burst again in the same chase, or any of the other abuses that happened some 3-4 years ago.
Bond is a very strong perk. It is much stronger than most exhaustion perks. Dark Sight is rightfully crap, but then that's why nobody ever uses it.
I remember when exhaustion recovered while running. It wasn't pretty.
Just because perks were worse back then doesn't mean they're still not a problem though. If that were the case, DS would still activate upon the first pickup, and Hex: NOED would be on a timer and not a hex.
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Currently you can get a free top
fromfor mikaela:
A Charm:
And A doctor skin that I dont have but here it is:
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This would be nice.
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Trying to find new ways to have fun in our 5 year long stale meta I have come up with a couple of builds:
Status Effect Legion (obviously not good):
- Legion Pin + Defaced Smiley Pin
- Starstruck, Hysteria, Blood Echo, Fearmongerer
Super Speed Legion (also obviously bad)
- Etched Ruler + Scratched Ruler
- PWYF, Nemesis, Fire Up, Bamboozle
Normal Legion Build:
- BBQ, Surge, Bamboozle, Enduring
Support Survivor Build:
- Prove Thyself, Streetwise, Vigil, Leader
Oops, All Auras Survivor Build:
- Open-handed, Windows of Opportunity, Bond, Visionary
Normal Survivor Build:
- Spine Chill, Resilience, Balanced Landing, Borrowed Time
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@Inspire said:
Half of the killer roster has a way of countering exhaustion perks. Just get good.
Ugh, I really should have clarified better. I want these perks nerfed so that other perks have a chance to shine.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2583042#Comment_2583042
If you fail to see the value in those perks, that sounds like a you problem.
I do. Problem is 99% of people I play with don't.
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@Exult said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2583029#Comment_2583029
You being tired of dealing with them isn't grounds enough to nerf them unfortunately. I'm tired of dealing with NOED I suppose, but that doesn't mean I should stop doing bones. High DbD mmr is boring for a reason (completely assuming you're high mmr) and that's because you're playing around the same four or five perks.
I just want to play against a different set of 4-5 perks. The current ones have been on the throne for too long.
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@Labrac said:
Your comparison doesn't make any sense. Information perks are way different than chase ones, that's like saying "why should I run BBQ when I can run Bambozlee".
I think Sprint Burst and Dead Hard should be toned down, but everything else is fine.
They're all tools to help the survivor escape, aren't they? Dead Hard helps more in more scenarios than Alert or Bond. So these perks won't be used until something changes.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2582934#Comment_2582934
Like them or not, they take a skill and thought from the survivors to use. Iron Will is the perk that needs a nerf imo.
@Phasmamain said:
Are they really an issue? If you really have trouble give mindbreaker/blood echo a try
The issue is they beat out all other perks in the game. I don't struggle against them (aside from Dead Hard being used for distance), but I have a problem with them being constantly used because they are too strong compared to all other survivor perks. Doesn't matter how much skill they require. The meta will never change if exhaustion isn't touched. They are annoying and I'm tired of dealing with them as killer, but I wouldn't say I struggle against them.
@Exult said:
Well try to give you an actual answer instead of "get gud".
I definitely agree that exhaustion perks are the strongest tools in a survivor's arsenal. After all the only thing a survivor can do in a chase is waste your time as a killer, right? By design they are going to fall eventually given that resources are limited and Bloodlust exists as a mechanic. The point of those perks then is to increase the distance between them and the killer, thus giving them more time and taking time away from the killer should they choose to commit to the chase.
Perhaps it's less that the perks are too strong, but that you haven't found a way to work around it. I don't think they are problematic enough that there must be a downside to running them in addition to the exhausted effect. After they utilize the perk to run away, perhaps your time is better off leaving them be and pressuring a different part of the map. If not, then the chase goes on for a little while which is natural.
Of course, if you only care about escaping/killing then just run the most strong perks. They're the strongest for a reason, and if you nerf those into the ground then another set of perks are going to be considered the strongest and then those will be called to be nerfed. As a parallel to what survivors have, I believe a killer's strongest tool is generator regression/ slow-down perks (outside of their power of course). Survivors have to play around perks and add-ons just as much — if not more — as killers have to. That said you do not have to use those perks to win a game at all.
TL;DR Exhaustion perks are strong, but not overly powered in my opinion. Strong perks exist on both sides, they increase your chances of winning by a lot but they aren't necessary.
Again, I don't need advice. I have 2k hours on killer. I think I know how to play against these perks. It is time for the meta to change in my opinion though.
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@GannTM said:
Get better.
I have, and I'm tired of pretending for the past 5 years that they're okay.
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Wow, I like many of these changes. Props for being creative with them too.
If the twins had these add-ons I feel like I would play twins for fun even though I hate using their power.
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Didnt they change the radius to 24 meters? Regardless, shadow step is too strong. I vote to remove the aura reading immunity from this perk.
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@PalletsAndHooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2581916#Comment_2581916
Zero cost?
Costs two perk slots minimum.
2 perk slots for potentially 4 ruins + some aura reading.