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@Cerebral_Harlot said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2480964#Comment_2480964
The notes listed it as a technical issue, not a licensing one. Many players assumed it was a bug to be fixed after release.
The notes list it as a change from the PTB, not a Known Issue.
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@CrowVortex said:
Deadlock would have more synergy with Thrilling tremors and Pop tbh. If you can get a down within those 30 seconds of it being blocked, plus the extra 16 seconds from thrilling to hopefully kick it in time with pop after the hook.
Counterpoint: Deadlock can also screw you out of using Pop efficiently if the gen you are moving to kick suddenly gets blocked.
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@TheHailstorm said:
Lol yeah literally an hour and a half before it was released?! When they've watched game play footage up until that point and yes I get sometimes things change but I mean who literally is going to read the "notes" before they go and buy something they've been excited about for what at least a month now? And I did read the notes before I went and downloaded and bought pinhead and I saw no mention of it in game. Who's going to go and read all the fine print if something literally changed like voices being taken out withing an hour the dlc got released. I stick with my wording.
I mean who literally is going to read the "notes" before they go and buy something they've been excited about for what at least a month now?
People with common sense.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2480684#Comment_2480684
Naw. my scenario is more likely.
Because here's the thing: It CAN'T be legal stuff cause, NO you can't have cherrypicking parts of a contract. meaning the voicelines are tied to the whole thing. it's either the whole thing or none. and as everything else is still there it's very likely a coding issue.
It really isn't more likely that they're too embarrased to admit that they screwed up than that licensing issues are coming up. Your scenario doesn't make sense.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2479580#Comment_2479580
Imagine you are a dev. You got these voicelines that people are hyped for. you prepare the next patch, run everything through internal testing... and realize you accidentally overwrote the voicelines file with that of a different character, with no backup. Would you really admit that? Not saying this DID happen, but I could absolutely understand it if that is the case.
If it is: Please send that person my regards, we've all been there, and it suuuuuuuuuucks Dx
That doesn't make sense and seems rather contrived, but yes, you would admit that. The only logical explanation for them not explaining is that they are being prevented from explaining the reason. And the only logical reason for that is a legal reason.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
It's more likely a coding/filenaming thing, to be honest. They added voicelines for jonathan, and judging by how common this mistake it is in coding, it might be they accidentally overwrote pinhead's voicefiles with it and had to disable it last second.
Wouldn't that be listed under "Known Issues" in the patch notes, then? Also, that doesn't sound like a reason for the devs to suddenly be all "We can't tell you any more than what we have already said."
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@Kira15233 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2479333#Comment_2479333
Um sorry sir, I have to correct... They came as 4, Pinhead, Chatterer, Butterball and Deep Throat (female cenobite, heard the name in this thread)
Well, I guess the Hellraiser IP owners didn't watch the movie either and have desecrated the fact that they came. Shame on them.
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@ImAJoke264 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2476582#Comment_2476582
respawning hooks after a sacrifice is like permanent basement on all hooks, it would be really op to be able to sacrifice survivors and then hook somebody on the same hook
That is what the old Hangman's Trick did, and it was considered extremely niche at best.
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@EvilJoshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2479334#Comment_2479334
I've mentioned numerous times I lost faith in BHVR after patch 1.9.2 The worst part was that wasn't a bug, it was intended. The makers of the game thought that horrible idea was a QoL change. So Yes, I have to ask if this is a bug because I dont trust BHVR to know what they're doing.
No, you don't. Claiming that there is even a remote chance that this is intentional is a laughable stance to take.
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@jamally093 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2479333#Comment_2479333
Sounds like your giving a speech about how to work as a team.
It was all well and good until they realized they overcame.
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@EvilJoshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2479327#Comment_2479327
Ive had the game for 4 years now. In the past there have been times when a killer was experiencing a bug and it later became a thing. Until people complained about it and the devs reverted it. Nurse use to be fatigued even after hitting someone. You could blink, hit someone, wipe the blood, then look at the floor. That was a thing until people complained and the devs fixed it.
Explain how it would be rationalized as working as intended. Go ahead.
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@lauraa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2479267#Comment_2479267
mods saying that they cant say anything is them saying that somebody said that we don't like what pinhead has to say.
Dead By Daylight, you have defiled the sanctity of our property by MANGLING the source material! It is not "I CAME!" It is "WE CAME!" DID YOU NOT SEE THE MOVIE?!? IT IS NOT ONLY HE WHO CAME! THEY CAME AS THREE! THEY CAME TOGETHER! THEY CAME IN HARMONY! THEY CAME IN UNISON BECAUSE THEY ENJOYED EACH OTHER'S COMPANY! THEY SOUGHT PLEASURE, AND THUS THEY CAME ALL AT ONCE! IF YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHY IT IS SO MUCH BETTER THAT THEY CAME TOGETHER RATHER THAN SEPARATELY, THEN WE DON'T WANT HIM SAYING THAT HE CAME AT ALL!"
--Hellraiser's IP owners, probably.
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@EvilJoshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2479323#Comment_2479323
I wasn't freaking out, I was asking a question.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2479312#Comment_2479312
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2479314#Comment_2479314
It's not the first time a "bug" appeared on a killer and later the devs said "it's working as intended".
I want you to tell me how it is working as intended. Right now.
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C'mon, now. It should be painfully obvious that this is a bug.
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@mynameisBlade said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2478402#Comment_2478402
Apparently the license holders agree. Idc what anyone says.. My gut says they saw the stupid memes and told them to get the voice out of the game. xD
That's okay. They all came together in the movie anyways.
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@mynameisBlade said:
Good... the voice actor didn't do a very good job and the I CAME part probably upset people that own the character. I would be upset too. Pinhead saying those specific words "I CAME" never happens in lore... The correct line is "WE CAME" assuming there are multiple Cenobites. So if it is just Pinhead don't create new phrases that he has never spoken before. Thanks. Glad it is gone. Now we just need the basement colors to be blue when Pinhead is the killer. :)
Are you the same person who complained that saying "I came" instead of "We came" is an insult to the lore?
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Removed. Apparently they have stated that they are unable to explain why.
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YOU OPENED THE BOX, BUT THE MOMENT HAS PASSED.
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@Predated said:
6 meters is honestly fine, hangmans trick is good against SWF where it tells you if someone is ready to sabotage a hook. The only buff it should need IMO is giving a killer permanent aura reading on hooks in general(not survivors near hooks, just the hooks).
You already see the hook aura when someone is on it, you already get a notification after a hook is sabotaged. The only benefit it would gain is that you know what hooks are available to you before you down the survivor. That way you can create a pre-planned path before you even pick up a survivor.
6 meters is trash. I couldn't even see the person upstairs in the Killer shack while I was in the basement with someone. Hangman's Trick is easily one of the weakest perks in the game.
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@WexlerWendigo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2473690#Comment_2473690
Bottles now cause the ‘break’ action, regressing generators from afar and break pallets over x amount of seconds. This would increase the lack of map pressure he has, as he doesn’t need to walk up to a gen to pop it, and he can zone survivors who stay near a pallet, encouraging them to find an exit ASAP.
Pretty easy, considering I came up with this in 30 seconds and I’m not a video game dev. BHVR have no excuse.
Base kit in exchange for changing Pinky Finger? :P
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No. Perk is definitely strong enough that it doesn't need to effectively be a pseudo-fifth perk slot.
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@Danyonetta said:
The only thing I really agree on is the increased movement speed while crouched. The rest don't seem particularly right to me personally. Her dash should not break pallets or walls. And although the RNG of boxes can be annoying, its what makes the traps interesting. Knowing you're not getting your trap off at the first box makes it seem trivial - why is the box there then? Timer should continue to go down while searching - it adds to the intensity and urgency to escape. The traps should rarely kill survivors anyway so I don't think they need nerfing like this.
Knowing you're not getting your trap off at the first box makes it seem trivial - why is the box there then?
To increase the average amount of time wasted searching boxes, naturally.
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I agree that Killer shouldn't be able to see Survivor names+profiles before the game starts. As far as items, it's to give the Killer an intentional advantage since there are four Survivors vs. one Killer.
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@YearOfTheHag said:
Hi good people of the DBD forums It has been a long year, but it is finally over.
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I have won every killer game I have played since last year, today, and I learned a lot along the way that I would love to share and discuss.
Before we get into an argument, I will define what I called a win:
• 4 kills
• 3 kills + hatch/gate if I was in control and allowed it
I know there is an ongoing debate about hooks vs kills, in which I am pretty firmly in the “kills” camp, but that’s a discussion for a different thread. If there was an obvious hacker (VERY rare), then I did not count a loss. I can remember only two instances of this happening, where people just escaped the trial before gens were done and without hatch being opened. A key escape of 2+ people, had one happened, would have been a loss.
I will try to answer some questions before they are asked:
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How many games did I win?
• About 700, by my estimates
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Why did I do this?
• I know pushing for wins is not all there is in the game, but I felt it would force me to learn as much as possible about The Hag and DBD from the Hag’s perspective.
• Just wanted to see if I could
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Do I have a life outside of DBD?
• Yes. The pandemic gave me time and an excuse to play more games. I am a PhD student (studying games, partially) so the rest of my time is pretty full.
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I only won because I did not play YOU or YOUR SWF!
• If you are in NA East, I probably did
• No, I am not interested in playing you now for your stream or whatever
• Might be true, might not.
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Do win streaks matter?
• I think so, I got to play a ton of games against a wild array of skill levels and got to experience a lot of different game-states. Having won all of them, I think that I learned a lot, at least.
• A win streak, IMO, is just saying that against X number of teams, none were able to beat me. That suggests that the odds of finding a SWF that CAN beat me is 1/X. The bigger X is, the less likely you are to find such a group.
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Which killer did I use? What was my build?
• I played every killer game as The Hag. She just clicked with me and I love her playstyle. She is one of the harder killers to learn and play optimally, IMO, so it was a great challenge.
• I played a lot with my build. I tried all the new perks as I unlocked them. I played a lot of meme-y builds, too, but my favorite has been:
• STBFL: Obvious pick for hag. Excellent.
• Pop or CI: I like CI because it helped me stay calm in the early game, but Pop is probably “better”. I also don’t love kicking gens. I feel like the time is better spent keeping the web set up.
• MYC: My favorite killer perk. This allows the hag to skip hook traps to free up traps for better locations while also increasing her lethality. Very strong.
• Franklins: Keys were risky, but beyond that people tend to lose their minds when they drop items that they like, so trapping them is a pretty solid move
• Add-Ons: I always used a TP range (cicada) and a Phantasm Duration (Egg shell) when I could. Any colour was fine. Never used any purple or pink add-on.
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This win streak is proof that the Hag is OP!
• I am one person playing in one region with one particular playstyle. This streak really does not prove anything about the game or the Hag. This is not data, this is an anecdote and, probably a pretty majorly outlying one.
• That being said, I think that the Hag does have a couple of bigger issues:
- Low skill hags get a TON of value from hook traps with very little input. The skill-in to power-out ratio seems broken to me. I think that a perfect solution could be that rescues break traps in a small radius around the hook. This would force newer hags to get better without really interfering with high skill play.
- Add-ons: OMG her shackles and mint rag need looking at. They should probably be nerfed. Her Scarred hand and Waterlogged Shoe need reworks, too, to make them more viable.
• Hag is not OP. I think that she has plenty of counterplay (see below). I also think that people do not like the counterplay that hag forces, so they do not do it and then complain that they lost. She makes for a very different game on both sides. Whether or not that is healthy or fun is a matter of opinion, I think. I think that there are stronger and weaker killers. Hag is fantastic, but can be beaten.
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Hag has no counterplay!
• I had a lot of close calls vs some very strong SWF (and non SWF) teams along the way.
• I play 50-50 killer and surv, so I also play my fair share of hags and I rarely lose to them, now.
• Some survivors went as far as acknowledging that they could have crouched over traps on the map but preferred not to because they didn’t think that was fun counterplay. I understand not liking a matchup, but if you want every killer to provide a similar survivor experience and allow you to play in a similar way without needing to adapt, I imagine that a lot of matchups feel awful. I promise that if you devote some time to the VS Hag matchup, it will be a lot more enjoyable and winnable than you think.
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How to beat the Hag, by a Hag main:
• Harass her traps:
- Identify quickly that you are playing vs a hag and keep her placed trap count low. If you are a competent runner, take a hit if you have to, just don’t let her set up her whole web.
- As soon as she picks up another survivor, start running around like a maniac to pop traps while she cant punish you for it.
- If a teammate gets injured, you could also try to harass traps and hope she drops that person and teleports to you instead, saving a down/hook, hopefully
• Always ALWAYS look at a trap you expect to go off
- Her camera swing allows the hag to place traps in locations that will force survivors to take one path over another. They can slow vaults, also. This swing does not occur when you look at a trap before it goes off.
- This allows you more freedom to dodge even an instant hit and pick your path
• Abuse loops:
- The Hag is a slow muddy lady. Greed untrapped pallets and loops to extend chase time.
- The longer she is on you, the less time she has to set her traps
• If you are in a chase, always move towards the opposite direction from which the hag came
- There are traps there.
• The game is about prediction and knowledge:
- The Hag wins when her game knowledge and prediction is just better than the survivors. She is not mechanically intense, but she gets the most value from just knowing things like running speeds, safety of pallets, totem spots, etc.
- You have to think like a Hag. Figure out where she WANTS to trap and avoid/harass those places as you go. Places like shack, dropped pallets, lit hexes, are all going to be trapped.
- A good hag will adapt to you, as you adapt to her. Watch for spicier traps in grass, outside of intersections, near unused hooks.
• Map awareness
- If you can, call out trap locations over comms
*Try to figure out where the hag is on the map at all times. When she is in chase and injures a teammate you should get some info. * Keep track of her locations so you can better anticipate traps in those areas
• Perks
- Borrowed time is a very strong counter to hook trapping hags. You already bring it, so keep that up!
- Urban Evasion is not good enough to bring in hopes that you will get value from it vs a hag, though it is a very good perk in certain situation
- Fast healing perks will save you lots of time, which is extra important in this matchup. I like Inner Strength, personally. Resurgence might be great, also.
- Most exhaustion perks really don’t bother the Hag. If you get away just to step in a trap, you still go down. Dead hard is an exception. Incredibly strong perk. It lets you dodge instant TP hits and cover up a mistake or spicy trap.
• Franklins
- Do not ever go back for an item you lost unless the hag is holding another survivor. You can think of it like you are taking one of her traps hostage, if you want to.
• Make your choice
- After a rescue, run back in exactly the way you came towards the rescue. It is the safest way to avoid a down. Bring the rescued surv with you when possible.
• Hooks
- Crouch while rescuing AND while being rescued. If the hag is far away, you are safe.
• Camping hags
- This is the big one for a lot of people.
- Bad hags will sit right near a hook after putting 2+ traps around it. Treat this almost like a leatherface. Do gens and get out.
- If you want to rescue from a heavily trapped hook, you need 2 people. One pops the traps and the other gets the rescue as the hag chases or botches her TPs.
• Scroll wheel hag
- Not really a threat. Good hags never do this, even if you think they do.
- A scroll wheel hag does not pick her TPs, she is basically a bot that instantly loses to any mindgame or successful harassment.
- Better hags will choose when to TP, but may still be faster than you would like them to be, that is part of the skillset.
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Is the game killer-sided?
• I play 50-50 surv and killer.
• I think that solo q players have it the worst, then killers, then SWF, then top tier killers, then optimal SWF.
• I have no doubt that there are plenty of SWFs that would have demolished me. The info and coordination they have access to would be more than enough to deal with a strong Hag.
• I think that top tier killers: Spirit, Nurse, Hag, Blight (In that order, fight me). When played by a good enough player have a pretty easy time against the average red ranked SWF.
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I must have been super sweaty and mean
• I try not to be mean. I try to give hatch after good games and I never tunnel or camp.
• Sweat, though? Big time. I was trying to win every game for a year. Yeah, I slugged early in some games against scarier teams. I brought a very strong build with good add-ons.
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Who is the best Hag player?
• Michi. Please go watch his videos on Hag and Trap guides. Even if you don’t want to play the Hag, it is a great resource in learning to play against her. I only won games because I watched his stuff. Space Coconut gets an honourable mention, too. He has some (older, now) good hag videos and plays with a different style from Michi.
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What is the most important thing for a Hag player?
• Knowledge
- Know the maps, tiles, perks, pallets, escape routes.
- Play survivor a lot.
• Style
- Develop your own playstyle. Be a scary unknowable mud lady. If they can predict your trap placements, they will beat you.
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How is playing the Hag for new players?
• Play a lot of survivor and a lot of other killers before you decide to main Hag. Learn everything you can about the game from both perspectives. This will also prevent you from not being able to ever swap to a more standard killer, as only playing Hag does not teach you some of the basics.
• You are going to lose a lot. Just be fine with it and learn.
• Watch high level Hag gameplay and try to figure out WHY each trap is placed and keep tabs on when each go off and under what circumstances
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What do I think about MMR?
• I don’t really see how an MMR system will be able to compare killers (simple metrics of success) to survivors (vastly more complex measures of success), so I don’t think it will be a very good system
• That being said, my games were a LOT harder during some of the MMR tests, though queue times were unbearable. Recent tests felt pretty much like normal games. Take from that what you will. Personally, given my experiences during testing, I think that good killers can still reasonably get big streaks, though it may be harder. I think it comes down to the odds of finding a good enough team and the point at which queue times will get too long in trying to find them.
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Why did I make a new account / what is my steam name?
• Based on my average end game chat, I think some people have a hard time losing to Hags. I also think some people have a hard time knowing what can and cannot be learned from data. As such, I think I will spare myself the hate mail.
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Did I lose?
• No. The goal was for a year and now that is over. I am not interested in sweating hard for wins anymore. I want to play friendly Demo for a while.
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Do I have any neat tricks?
• Yes! I stumbled across two fun mindgames that I would love to share with you:
• Egg tech:
- You instantly teleport to a trap, but the sneaky survivor was baiting you with sprint burst and ran away before you could slap. Don’t move. Follow them with your eyes, moving ONLY in the X axis, mimicking the phantasm’s movements. A lot of them will come back towards you, thinking you just have phantasm duration add-ons (Eggs). I’ve gotten a ton of hits from this and even some gen grabs.
- I like it because it works against good players’ knowledge and expectations. Nobody would TP just to stare at you, right? Standing still is a mindgame lol.
• Slapping wood:
- You are on the other side of a dropped pallet from a survivor. I typically don’t love trapping very close to some pallets and prefer nearby choke points so this happens sometimes. When the hag breaks a pallet, she is one of the few killers who use their hands and not their feet or some weird animation. That means that if you lunge at the pallet, it will look very close to her breaking animation to a lot of survivors. They will usually run away and right into a trap that you are now free to TP to.
- If the survivor knows what Hag’s animations look like you are going to embarrass yourself and confuse them. Let’s call it being unpredictable. I love this so much.
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That’s what I could imagine people would want to know. I hope we can have a discussion about this stuff and try to learn from each other. Let’s keep it civil.
GL out there in the fog.
TL;DR: I won all my killer games for a year, learned some stuff about the Hag, thought I should share.
I see you put the decimal point in the wrong spot. Don't worry, I gotchu dawg:
How many games did I win?
About 7•00, by my estimates
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@Sypherpathic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2470181#Comment_2470181
Feels to me a little bit more like there's people that only have fun dominating and it's defined as 'sweating' when the majority or all matches are against good skill players on the other side. There's a huge rate of bragging in this community about how they're all 'dominating' or whatever against the other side. I'm getting the distinct impression that's all been a function of the ranked matchmaking not working that great and now, the MMR system is actually pitting the top of each side against each other and they don't like it. They want some matches where they can lord it over the other side and win!
I never get above mid ranks because I love things like rescuing people after EGC and dying, even though they escape. I'm also ######### at chase, often running right into the killer all on my own and getting downed. I'm fine with it.
All this MMR contention really feels like people whining that they at once want to be perceived as the best player but also, please don't make me play against the best players on the other side.
I think you mke a great point, but I also think that my belief is equally true.
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Sounds to me like the game has "fun" issues at the high end if that's the case.
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@PIP330 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2469115#Comment_2469115
That scenario is created by the killer, for not applying pressure. That's pretty simple.
" I think nerfing a perk because of a weird situation is completely justified"
Oh well then, let's nerf every perk and killers then.
I'll start with noed: make it so if the killer downs more than 2 survivor with noed active it automatically destroys and the perk deactivates, we did this change because we consider this is a no-win situation to survivors
If the trickster shots someone on the exit gate and is injured the chain automatically breaks, we did this because this could potentially create a no-win situation to that survivor.
Should I continue?
You realize you're nerfing the perk for a WEIRD scenario that will probably happen in 1 of every 10 games, a scenario that is the killer fault for not applying pressure, right?
Hey, if you're gonna accuse me of ignoring your point, I'm gonna ask you to not ignore the question I posed. :P Did you suggest that players should not be punished for completing gens and hooking people?
Also, the scenarios you describe are not no-win scenarios. No-win scenario means that no matter what you do, you lose. If someone is downed near the Exit Gate with an active DS, the Killer is in a no-win scenario because both options (pick up and slug) will cause the Killer to definitely lose that Survivor.
So if you can explain how the Survivors can't win no matter what they do in the situations you describe, I'd be happy to concede the point to you.
And yes, I fully realize that I am suggesting changing an interaction that isn't terribly common. It means that changing this interaction solves a problem the perk causes without harming the rest of the perk in the vast majority of other cases. That is generally referred to as a "healthy change." :P
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@PIP330 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2468729#Comment_2468729
Then the killer hooked him really close to the exit gates, and that's pretty much a really good weird scenario for DS where it is doing what is supposed to do: counter tunneling
Every killer, every perk, every addon has a good scenario (most of them are really hard to make them work) Should we nerf as well the perk that let u throw down the pallet cause in a really good scenario it is op? You can't nerf a perk because it shines in a weird moment of the game (And that moment is the end game, that means the killer couldn't prevent survivors from doing gens) Imagine punishing a player for doing their objective.
"Hook fast enough to avoid reaching the endgame but not too fast that we trigger DS."
In most of those cases slugging is the best if gens are poppin' like crazy and applies more pressure to survivor cause if u hook them they're already in the injured state and it only takes 3 seconds to unhook, but if u slug them the survivor has either to stay in the ground and recover or someone comes in and heal them up (which takes 16 seconds i think?)
"Killers are to blame if they trigger DS and Killers are to blame if they let it stick around until the end."
Who blames killer if they trigger DS? DS is just doing it's job
Essentially, Killers are to blame for not winning the game without ever triggering DS.
Ok, drop the victim card already
It's not even that close to the Exit Gates. You have an entire minute to crawl out. DS is supposed to counter tunneling, not guarantee an escape. That is a scenario that should NOT happen. That pay-off is simply too high. I think nerfing a perk because of a weird situation is completely justified if a) that weird situation is very extreme b) the nerf in question only meaningfully affects that weird situation.
Imagine punishing a player for doing their objective.
...are you suggesting that a player should not be punished for doing gens or hooking people?
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@Nubgutter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2468789#Comment_2468789
To me it's all an experiment because just like they said the new horrendous UI from a couple months ago would be "permanent" they back tracked when enough people complained and created a new better UI, I have feeling SBMM being permanent won't be here for long because so far it's getting more back lash than the bad UI but we will have to wait and see what the future holds.
It's been getting more praise than the UI change, from my POV.
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Experiment? I thought they already did the experiment. Isn't that why they're turning it on permanently now?
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@PIP330 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2468432#Comment_2468432
Slugging never was a option, huh?
And if for some reason a survivor with only 1 hook makes it to the end game, isn't that ur fault for not pressuring gens? (I repeated this a lot, but it seems to be u can't understand)
No, because they can crawl out of the exit gate.
Ad also not necessarily because I also can't hook someone too quickly in succession or else I risk triggering DS as well. Hook fast enough to avoid reaching the endgame but not too fast that we trigger DS. Killers are to blame if they trigger DS and Killers are to blame if they let it stick around until the end. Essentially, Killers are to blame for not winning the game without ever triggering DS.
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@PIP330 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2468361#Comment_2468361
Survivors can save DS, so if they know they can make it to end game they could save it, that's survivor fault.
The killer created that scenario by not pressuring gens
So what you're saying is that there's no way to properly play around DS?
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@PIP330 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2467961#Comment_2467961
There's a big difference between "not easy" and "Survivor gets a guaranteed escape." The game should not give a Survivor a 100% chance to escape despite being downed while not even within the Exit Gate area. That's not "punish the Killer for not playing right;" that's just poor design.
No, u tunneled u get punished simple. It's the killer who creates that scenario by not pressuring gens, basically every survivor perks get more powerful in end game cause the exit gate is there, ready to be open, so the killers is being pressured a lot.
That's like saying killer should be punished for doing a 3 gen (which is a weird scenario) because it is unfair for survivors (and most of the time against a high mobility killer is a secured 2/3 kills
Let me put it to you like this: If the Killer does not tunnel and specifically avoids triggering DS the whole game, the Killer is now in a position where a Survivor who still has DS can now realistically secure an escape despite being downed. Why? Because the Killer didn't tunnel the whole game and allowed the Survivors to keep DS until the end. So in essence, NOT tunneling punished the Killer.
You like it or not, the killer tunneled and got punished. And if the killer didn't want to trigger DS the whole entire game, then he only got 1 hook on every survivor (in that scenario u did) is that pressuring survivors? Obviously DS will get powerful in end game cause that's where a killer will 100% tunnel a survivor. And that's the fault of the killer for not preventing survivors from doing their objective (aka. not applying pressure)
It's asking Killers to play the game fast enough to avoid being put in this no-win scenario but not TOO fast by taking the Survivor out of the game quickly because then you might play into DS anyways. You can't have it both ways. Either they're supposed to play around it by not tunneling to avoid it or they're supposed to play around it by tunneling to force it early. You shouldn't be able to have your cake and eat it as well in this case.
U tunneled, u get punished. Simple. Killers can create a lot of no-win scenario for them, and it's their FAULT, survivors shouldn't be punished for it. It's awesome how some people still complain about DS after getting nerfed 3 times, geez dont tunnel.
The Killer created that scenario by not forcing DS early, would you not agree? If the Killer tunneled at the beginning to force DS and then reaches the end game, then the Killer specifically avoided that scenario by tunneling, correct?
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Not at all. If the three were able to keep up from the start, that just means the skill level gap between the two sides was probably huge. On a closer gap, it wouls for sure be a stomp in the Killer's favor.
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@C3Tooth said:
If you were mean to play for fun, you dont care for the k.
But you cared. It was never been fun for you.
We call this the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. :P
In reality, it is possible to both play for fun and care about winning.
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@PIP330 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2467155#Comment_2467155
That's a (weird) scenario caused by the killer, for not applying enough pressure and making it to the end game.
I consider end game shouldn't be easy for killers, survivors already did 5 gens, he couldn't prevent them from doing so, that's why he's getting punished; we shouldn't punish survivors for doing their objective, and at the end of the day no matter what the situation is DS is supposed to counter anti tunnel, and if u tunnel at any time of the match you're gonna get punished.
Simple
There's a big difference between "not easy" and "Survivor gets a guaranteed escape." The game should not give a Survivor a 100% chance to escape despite being downed while not even within the Exit Gate area. That's not "punish the Killer for not playing right;" that's just poor design.
Let me put it to you like this: If the Killer does not tunnel and specifically avoids triggering DS the whole game, the Killer is now in a position where a Survivor who still has DS can now realistically secure an escape despite being downed. Why? Because the Killer didn't tunnel the whole game and allowed the Survivors to keep DS until the end. So in essence, NOT tunneling punished the Killer.
It's asking Killers to play the game fast enough to avoid being put in this no-win scenario but not TOO fast by taking the Survivor out of the game quickly because then you might play into DS anyways. You can't have it both ways. Either they're supposed to play around it by not tunneling to avoid it or they're supposed to play around it by tunneling to force it early. You shouldn't be able to have your cake and eat it as well in this case.
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@PIP330 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2466919#Comment_2466919
Then dont tunnel at the end game. Didn't yall complained for like 2 years about ds cause it should be "anti-tunneling"
Didn't know killers couldn't tunnel at the end game lol.
So let that person escape for free? :P
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2466878#Comment_2466878
NOED was only used as an example where Killers say that the game is not over when all Gens are done. Nothing more.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2466860#Comment_2466860
Ah, it is "not fair". I think it is not fair that a Perk gets disabled when the Survivors are completing their Objective.
Considering that many perks are only active at certain points in the game, I don't consider that unreasonable at all.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2466754#Comment_2466754
Why exactly?
Killers always claim that the game is not over when all Gens are done - mostly when they defend NOED. So why should a Perk be disabled when the game is going on? The game for a Survivor only ends when they are either escaped or dead, everything else means they are playing the game so they should have access to their Perks.
Let alone that it is kinda the Killers fault that they did not manage to kill everyone before EGC. (The Killer is the only constant in their games, so they are to blame for that...)
Because the perk not being disabled at that point can potentially outright guarantee an escape. That is not fair IMO.
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2466818#Comment_2466818
than eat the stun earlier before endgame if you don’t wanna get hit by it later in the match. That’s the only way you’re gonna play around DS.
That doesn't sound like great design. It means playing around it can punish you extra hard during the end game.
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2466774#Comment_2466774
If the game is not over and survivors haven’t used their DS, they deserve that chance.
You didn't answer my question. You suggested that Killers play around DS during the EGC by waiting out the timer. How does that stop them from crawling out the open gate?
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@Nathan13 said:
killers that think DS is unfair at EGC are wrong. Just slug and wait the timer out. Or eat the stun early.
This makes zero sense. How does waiting the timer out stop the Survivor from crawling out of the open gate? Same goes for eating the stun.
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2466035#Comment_2466035
No way. survivors are still playing and should always get a DS chance no matter what.
I disagree. I personally think the cut-off point should be once the End Game Collapse starts.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2466558#Comment_2466558
I think that's how the re-rework will make them
Yeah, we'll have to see.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2466410#Comment_2466410
If they knocked them all back a rarity i think they would be ok. But trash rn for sure
I would't pay blood points for any of them, personally.
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@SloppyJalopy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2466380#Comment_2466380
Wait, why are they reworking Mori's again? I thought they were in a good spot
Are they, though? IMO they are currently very much not worth the bloodpoints spent.
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Only thing I think needs to be changed is it functioning during the EGC. Feels pretty bad when someone is effectively guaranteed to escape because they were downed close enough to the open Gate with an active DS. I'd be willing to buff DS a bit in exchange.
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@Yords said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2465599#Comment_2465599
Exactly, a forfeit button would hurt the game so much.
Not if you put in restrictions on when either side can forfeit. Make it so X amount of time needs to pass before either side can forfeit, and also make it so a Survivor forfeit must be unanimous among all Survivors still in the trial (with a failed unanimous vote putting the option on a lengthy cooldown for the Survivor who initiated it). Also make it so the Killer can't see when the Survivors are voting on a forfeit (that way, the Killer won't be able to suspect that a downed person who rejects a forfeit might have Unbreakable or something similar).
@Massquwatt said:
Standard matches in DBD don't go very long, can be anywhere between 5-15 minutes long. A forfeit option is really unecessary for the game anyway and putting it in will just make matches even shorter because you'll just have survivors and killers immediately giving up when something doesn't go their way and is that what you really want? You can already forfeit without the need to disconnect anyway, either suicide on the hook as survivor or stand in the corner as killer and tab out until the match is over.
"You can already forfeit without the need to disconnect anyway"
What do you do when the other side decides to not finish the game anyways?
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It most certainly is it. Just with the caveat that the EGC timer is paused while a Trap is active so the Trapped Survivor isn't screwed. You know, like how it used to be before Pig was nerfed.
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They'd have to be heavily nerfed to warrant being base kit.