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@lemonsway said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2452915#Comment_2452915
Oh but it does, i've quit a match during loading because i was sent to a Malfunctioning Map before it was disabled and i got the DC penalty. They sent me on purpose to a malfunctioning map and i was the one facing punishment... Being a bully in DbD is rewarded.
According to my research, you do not get a DC penalty for disconnecting in the loading screen.
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@lemonsway said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2452915#Comment_2452915
Yes you are, you canceled their chances for progression. It would be silly if they actually took anything away from before, but they canceled everything you could achieve.
That's not a loss because that is hypothetical.
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@lemonsway said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2452860#Comment_2452860
Canceling the match is robbing everyone of points and sending back to queue where again the wait times and match fairness is in question. you can get an easier match or the one that didn't happen was an easier match. You will never be able to tell. So since that's the case you're forcing everyone to admit defeat, nobody won anything from the last queue. More wasted time for 4 players and even more wasted time for the guy that now has a DC penalty.
You're not forcing anyone to admit defeat because no one loses anything. Not ranks, not items, not even offerings/add-ons.
Also, I don't think the DC penalty applies to someone DCing before the match loads (though I could be incorrect on this one).
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@lemonsway said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2452832#Comment_2452832
Im sorry WHAT!? So the killer has to be bad for the 3 to win? Thanks for admiting Survivors need all the babysitting in the world. Bad killers and number advantage... Mentality of the Bully.
Yes. As Mandy mentioned above, that's why they changed the system so that matches where a Survivor DCs before everyone is loaded in are cancelled.
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@lemonsway said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2452810#Comment_2452810
DC is only a problem for survivors cause the 3 remaining very rarely try. They rather let the DC affect the match and screw points for everyone by jsut giving up than playing the rest of match. It's not impossible to win 3v1 and if you're in 3 v1 then you should make an effort to help someone escape, be it yourself or one of the other 2 which is what you already had to do when it was a 4v1 so exactly where is the differance?
THe game is balance on a 2 escape 2 die so either 4v1 or 3v1 somebody is getting killed. If you count the DC as a kill then at least one of the remaining 3 has to die aswell. So isn't it better to just keep the match going and make it harder for the killer to get more kills instead of all 3 just giving up and everyone getting less points?
Nah, it's generally accepted that a 3v1 from nearly the start is extremely difficult to win unless the Killer is REALLY bad, and it's not because the 3 decide to just accept their fate.
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@lemonsway said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2452793#Comment_2452793
So if a kill at 5 gens is fair why isn't a DC? The end result is the same 1 player out of the match early...And you can't tell why someone DC'ed, you can't tell if it's a performance issue, a connection issues, a rage quit, a power outage, some computer problem etc yet here we are accusing each other of DC'ing and wanting punishements regardless of the cause. You just want an action against DC's be it whatever the reason and whatever the penalty.
Because Killers are supposed to reduce the Survivor number, not the Survivors.
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@lemonsway said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2452771#Comment_2452771
So a killer getting a kill is unfair too? I imagine getting a kill at 5 gens means that none of the 4 did anything useful but the blame is the one guy that died first?
No, because Killers are supposed to do that. Survivors are supposed to do the opposite.
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@Deon_1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2452775#Comment_2452775
yeah , i bet you wish that was me huh ? too bad so sad . ;)
Makes no difference to me. Those who DC will get large penalty times, and I'm all for it.
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@Deon_1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2452771#Comment_2452771
too bad so sad. HYPOTHETICALLY , if there was no d/c penalty , you could leave too and find another match. but the d/c penalty forces everyone to stay even if someone leaves , LMAO!
I believe the "too bad so sad" goes to the people who rack up 30+ minute penalties. :P
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@lemonsway said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2452761#Comment_2452761
OFC 3v1 is better for the killer than 4v1...That's the already base state of the game so the DC doesn't matter. DC is an early Kill.
The point is that the DC ruins the game for the Survivors by immediately and unfairly stacking the game against them heavily.
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@Deon_1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2452742#Comment_2452742
literal as in you can clearly read where its implied . the implication is literally in their sentences .
Where is it implied?
@lemonsway said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2452708#Comment_2452708
How does someone DC'ing ruin the match? What exactly is ruinned? Is it your ability to play? Is it your chances of winning ?(depending on what a win is to you)
Someone DC'ing makes Hatch easier for 3 guys and means 1 less player using resources so it makes chases easier for Survivors and the only detriment is there's 1 less person doing gens and rescues but escaping has less requirements and evading the killer became easier cause there's more resources to use so how is it ruinned?
Someone DC'ing robbs killer of a few Pop's, a BBQ stack, a Devour Stack, if it's the Obsession DC'ing then it robbs PWYF, STBFL, DL, etc BUT there's 1 less guy to chase and waste time on so there's a trade off. Where exactly is it ruinned?
I keep hearing "it ruins the match for everyone" but nobody points out what exactly is different. A DC is just like a Kill, 1 less player. Should killers get penalized for killing then? Cause 1 less player ruins the match? Should Tombstone Piece Myers not exist then since he can dry up someone fast and find someone else to Mori? That's 1 player out of the game quit fast does that count as them not even participating? Not participating would be the same as Dc'ing right?
@lemonsway said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2452708#Comment_2452708
How does someone DC'ing ruin the match? What exactly is ruinned? Is it your ability to play? Is it your chances of winning ?(depending on what a win is to you)
Someone DC'ing makes Hatch easier for 3 guys and means 1 less player using resources so it makes chases easier for Survivors and the only detriment is there's 1 less person doing gens and rescues but escaping has less requirements and evading the killer became easier cause there's more resources to use so how is it ruinned?
Someone DC'ing robbs killer of a few Pop's, a BBQ stack, a Devour Stack, if it's the Obsession DC'ing then it robbs PWYF, STBFL, DL, etc BUT there's 1 less guy to chase and waste time on so there's a trade off. Where exactly is it ruinned?
I keep hearing "it ruins the match for everyone" but nobody points out what exactly is different. A DC is just like a Kill, 1 less player. Should killers get penalized for killing then? Cause 1 less player ruins the match? Should Tombstone Piece Myers not exist then since he can dry up someone fast and find someone else to Mori? That's 1 player out of the game quit fast does that count as them not even participating? Not participating would be the same as Dc'ing right?
Chances of survival go way down if someone leaves early. 3v1 is substantially more in the Killer's favor than 4v1. That's why they changed things so that a game where someone DCs before the match loads is cancelled.
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@Deon_1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2452725#Comment_2452725
they implied it.
they literally implied it. i said nothing about removing it .
How does one literally imply something?
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@Deon_1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2452710#Comment_2452710
who said anything about removing it for the 3rd time ? the bots are out in full force .
and hypothetically , if there was no penalty , guess what ? sigh you could D/C too! find another match .
The last two people you replied to did not say anything about removing the DC penalty.
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@Deon_1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2452707#Comment_2452707
imagine being put in time-out by a video game in real-time . it should be lessened , its just a game . 30 minutes is more than enough , you never sat in time-out for 30 minutes at recess before have you angel?
"imagine being put in time-out by a video game in real-time"
That's not hard to imagine because that is not uncommon to see in video games.
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@Deon_1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2452701#Comment_2452701
and what delusional first-world problem is that ?
The problem of thinking that DC penalty should be lessened.
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@Deon_1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2452690#Comment_2452690
tell me where i said it should be removed . is this the de-facto response for you pro-penalty karens ? of course it is .yall are like a bunch of bots sometimes .
We ain't wrong, though. ;)
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@whammigobambam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2452534#Comment_2452534
Nah it's not. no survivor in their right mind is going to let that gen regress or get popped in this terrible regression meta and as a survivor with a trap on I don't blame them one bit.
Step 1: Do totems to break Ruin and Undying
Step 2: Don't worry about Ruin and Undying anymore
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@whammigobambam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2451502#Comment_2451502
It doesn't make a difference if you know it's tampered or not that gen still pops while the survivor with the trap hangs from the hook especially with ruin and it's good rng or bust.
Sounds like a problem with teammates. :P
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@justbecause said:
There's a word for those type of killers and it's pus*y
Yes, some killers can be pretty pushy.
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Mad Grit. Taxi build baybee
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@Rezblaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2451759#Comment_2451759
I would much rather change the power itself into something more consistent and fun to interact with.
I think the base kit power is fine from an interactive standpoint and can even stand to be buffed a bit.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2451773#Comment_2451773
Have you seen “Empathy”?
Yep. She sees them. But she chooses to care for self instead. ;)
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I guarantee you if it was actually Claudette herself controlling Claudette, she would be the most caring person for her teammates in every trial and it’s just facts.
Lies, she only cares about herself. Otherwise, her perk's name would be "Others-Care."
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@Rezblaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2451720#Comment_2451720
I disagree with the above statement.
It is not a sign of an unhealthy add-on, it is the sign of an unhealthy power.
The Pig's power is entirely RNG based. The timer isn't what kills people, its the RNG of the power along with the timer.
Nerfing Tampered Timer I don't think is the good decision here. Rather the Pig needs some tweaks to how her power works. They made it a bit more consistent but it hasn't completely nullified the fact that you're essentially guessing until you find the right box.
The solution isn't to nerf Tampered Timer IMO. The solution is to re-work it entitely.
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Either it does nothing at all or it outright kills a player with no in-between. That is not the sign of a healthy add-on. That said, I am 1000% not above using it because I love me my Trap kills.
@Rezblaze said:
Keep it.
This game is no stranger to addons that can carry matches. Iridescent Head and Soldiers Belt, for example.
Thing is, that is on a killer that can down you from halfway across the map. We are talking about a killer that is an M1 killer with mediocre stealth and a weak power. And this is from someone who loves Pig.
If a pig wants to tunnel you off boxes they will. If a Pig wants to poke at you the entire match until you pop, they will. If a killer wants to play scummy, they will play scummy.
If they dedicate two addons to make traps more dangerous, then let them be dangerous. I really think people overdramatize the effect of Tampered Timer.
This game is no stranger to addons that can carry matches. Iridescent Head and Soldiers Belt, for example.
Worth pointing out that the example you're bringing up does not exist anymore, as Irihead was specifically nerfed to not function with either of the add-ons that give extra hatchets.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2451705#Comment_2451705
I thought he crashed and got a DC penalty.
That's whats been happening to me.
No, OP initially said that they disconnect if their game gets laggy. Their initial post said nothing about their game crashing.
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@The_BiggCheeze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2451659#Comment_2451659
OH I'M SORRY MR SUPERIOR PC PLAYER! MY BAD LET ME BOW DOWN TO YOUR MIGHT OH HOLY ONE!
Not everyone can buy the next best thing, so don't blame issues on players when it's an issue that the DEVS made.
If you have nothing to add aside from "HA POOR, YOUR SYSTEM SUCKS" then you shouldn't be here.
And who would I be ruining the game for? 2 maybe 3 people, I'll be generous and give you 5. 5 people out of over 600 THOUSAND players. They will never see me again, so if that ONE match ruins the game for them, then they have their priorities in the wrong place.
Devs are very much at fault for optimization issues, but you are at fault for disconnecting and screwing over your teammates.
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@The_BiggCheeze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2451449#Comment_2451449
Yes because I'm tooootally talking about dcing against pc players in general.
I'm talking about the ones that either intentionally or unintentionally play killers that lag console to the point of freezing for 2-6 seconds at a time. Hell I lagged so hard just yesterday playing against clown it literally crashed my game. If you don't see that as a problem or a good reason to not play a match then there is something wrong.
Don't ruin the game for others if you have issues running the game yourself.
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@Mr_K said:
Yes, you should be penalized for leaving a match.
Agreed. It'd be one thing if OP brought up crashes and stuff, but wanting DC penalties turned off just to DC against PC players is exactly why the penalty exists in the first place.
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Myers is very likely to get an add-on pass at some point, given that I think he's the only Killer at this point that does not have the standardized number of add-ons (four common, five uncommon, five rare, four very rare, and two ultra rare).
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I don't like either end of this package. Going zero-zero-zero-one week is both too lenient on the low end and too harsh on the high end.
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If we're gonna have no new Survivor/Killer, I'd rather focus on the game health than on new maps personally.
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Clown isn't a licensed Killer.
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I'm not counting Pinhead because he is still in PTB.
Our options, off the top of my head, are Myers, Leatherface, Freddy, Pig, Ghostface, Demo, Pyramid Head, and Nemesis.
Of those, I would probably guess either Myers or Pig.
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@MrCalac123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2445659#Comment_2445659
Why don't you go and cleanse Ruin then? That way it won't proc multiple times.
Why not both?
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No rule against it, so take that as you will.
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@tixerp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2445621#Comment_2445621
Yes, players compete against each other. By competitive, I mean it wasn't intended to be at an Esports level. The devs have said multiple times that that's great and all, but it's a byproduct of the game. There's a reason why of all the things to borrow from Hide n Seek, the wincon, was not one of them. It's because they wanted to make their own system. A system without an explicit wincon. Because in DBD's instance, it was irrelevant to the fun, enjoyment, and "balance" of the game.
You missed my point with your last statement. I'm saying having a fun and balanced game, isn't mutually exclusive to having a wincon. People will join deathmatch in arena shooters, just to have fun. And if the game ends because one team reached max points, it's not like THAT wincon is the catalyst for which the entire games balance relies on. Like as if, you played an endless deathmatch instead, and suddenly there would be no cohesive singular thing to balance the game around, so now it's just an unbalanced mess. The balance is in the details, from player interaction, to weapons, to map design, etc. These things can be just as relevant WITH a wincon, as much as WITHOUT.
Context is important here. Something like Overwatch will definitely try to balance as much as it can around the concept of objective wins and losses. Meanwhile something like an arena shooter, can be more abstract. These two can both be fun and balanced, and exist at the same time. So I'm saying, why try so hard to keep push push pushing DBD to be like Overwatch, when it was always meant to be closer to an Arena shooter? (Not literally)
It doesn't have to be at eSport level to be balanced around a wincon, though. That's kinda just a fundamental aspect of a PvP game.
And I disagree very much with the statement regarding mutual exclusivity between balance and wincon.
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Why not make it only trigger once per generator or something? That way, Ruin can't just constantly reset the trigger condition over and over.
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It'd be nice, but I also like having Blast Mine be a situational counter to it, which re-buffing Pop would ruin. I'm mixed on the idea.
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@tixerp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2445343#Comment_2445343
Balancing around fun, balanced AND fun. Semantics. The term "Balancing around fun" is implying whatever fun idea we start with, will still result in something balanced in the end. It's not like if we balance around a fun idea, we somehow throw balance out the window.
When you don't have a centralized win condition to balance the game around, you don't have a good way to make sure that achieving that win condition is fun because now everyone has different ideas on what winning means and thus all have different standards of what makes the game fun for them.
That's the point. It was never a competitive game by any means, it was supposed to be an asymmetrical horror hide-and-seek sim. If we have nothing to balance everything around, maybe it's because we're trying to push balance so hard into the wrong game. Otherwise, the devs would have put in a wincon from the start. If you want a asymmetrical horror game that IS trying to be that kind of game, try something like Home Sweet Home: Survive.
In TF2's instance, look at something like a KOTH server. Sure, there's still a wincon, but in reality people just play for frags. Because that's fun. They don't even care if they "lose" in the end, so long as they got cool frags. The gameplay of fragging is still fun and balanced regardless of the objective/wincon.
"The term "Balancing around fun" is implying whatever fun idea we start with, will still result in something balanced in the end."
That's only true if proper balancing is actually involved.
"It was never a competitive game by any means, it was supposed to be an asymmetrical horror hide-and-seek sim."
PvP is pretty fundamentally competitive. Hide and seek has a wincon, depending on which side you are on: Find everyone, or stay hidden long enough.
"Sure, there's still a wincon, but in reality people just play for frags."
That is an assumption based on what, exactly?
They don't even care if they "lose" in the end, so long as they got cool frags. The gameplay of fragging is still fun and balanced regardless of the objective/wincon.
Not caring about losing or enjoying the gameplay is not mutually exclusive from having a proper wincon to balance the game around.
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@tixerp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2444696#Comment_2444696
Balance isn't always equal to fun. TF2 is imo a good example of balancing around fun. Very few things are inherently broken, because valve does make sure to balance, but every class has crazy weapons, builds and playstyles that focus first and foremost on having FUN. If you start with a fun idea, and chisel it into something balanced, that's great. If you start with a balanced idea, and try to chisel it into something fun, it won't come out as well. Fun should be the #1 priority. That's why we had great killers like Billy and Huntress. Balanced, but more importantly, fun. And when I see characters like Nemesis, New Freddy, Demo, etc, I can't help but feel they weren't designed with a simple fun idea at the start.
I didn't say that balance always equals fun. I said that "balancing around fun" leads to terrible balance.
"If you start with a fun idea, and chisel it into something balanced, that's great."
This right here? This is not "balancing around fun." This is "keeping things fun AND balanced." Fun absolutely is important, but balance is an important part of keeping things fun. Because if things are an unbalanced mess, then it's just not fun knowing that opportunities for engaging gameplay are being stifled/overshadowed by balance issues.
You use TF2 as an example, but TF2 absolutely has wincons focused around it (at least, in servers that aren't just designed around goofing off). DBD does not have that. When you don't have a centralized win condition to balance the game around, you don't have a good way to make sure that achieving that win condition is fun because now everyone has different ideas on what winning means and thus all have different standards of what makes the game fun for them.
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@tixerp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2444373#Comment_2444373
The fact the game doesn't have a proper wincon is a trait that made the game fascinating. The game isn't a competitive Esport. You create your own perceived victory. Balance should be around fun, and not winning. ""Winning"" is not always equal to fun.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2444331#Comment_2444331
How did I even forget to mention the UI? Holy crap, it was REALLY bad before, but it's still pretty bad now even. It was so bad, I refused to play the game at all with it. The most offensive part, is why did they even do it? Literally no one asked, and I think the old HUD was perfect.
"Balance should be around fun, and not winning."
That's a mentality that leads to terrible game balance. Which is why very, VERY few games actually adopt this.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2444320#Comment_2444320
The chain hunt is still on for the person holding the box though, and you pretty much can't do anything while you have it so sure he can't teleport to you if you don't open it but what good is it to do nothing the whole match and risk giving pinhead the box if you're caught?
That's why I stated he needs to be able to teleport to someone holding the box, say if they hold it for more than 3 seconds he can immediately teleport to it if he chooses , that gives him more map pressure and makes you have to choose when the right time to go for the box is instead of like now where the survivors just spam the button a few times to get you to pause to teleport losing pressure and being unable to teleport then continually do it every so many seconds, basically pinhead shouldn't be able to get trolled by his own ability and should be able to do something when the box is in their possession for more than a few seconds.
Video footage I have seen demonstrates that the person holding the box definitely can do stuff such as gens. They can't do it EFFICIENTLY, mind you, but it's not like Twins where holding onto Victor essentially makes the game a 3v1.
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@Crowman said:
Pig really needs a mini-rework. Her RBT's effectiveness are too variable depending on map and as you experienced huge maps that are hard to navigate make her RBTs way too lethal.
In my experience, if you ever see a pig use a Midwich offering she is 99% of the time running Tampered Timer + Extra Box addons. It's crazy how effective that combo is at guaranteeing a RBT kill.
To me, that sounds less like a reason to re-work Pig and more like a reason to fix maps that are too big.
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The lack of a proper wincon to balance the game around.
Also game performance/frame rate issues. :(
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@Rez_Marsiel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2443864#Comment_2443864
Those 30 seconds will be extremely impactful, and like I said, only 2 gens will get done If you do the math. Very good nurse players will be able to get that first hook in less than 30 seconds easily unless they're a bit rusty.
Sorry I meant to say 40 seconds minus blah blah blah. If we want to be more accurate, it'd be this:
120 - 80 - X, where X is the amount of time since the beginning of the trial where the gen that pops first was NOT being worked on - 2Y, where Y is the amount of seconds undone through gen regression. Unless a Survivor spawns on the first gen and is never interrupted, that will wind up resulting in a very small number.
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@Rez_Marsiel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2443857#Comment_2443857
This isn't about extending both of their duration simultaneously. It's about the time when they're both up that really matters.
And I'm saying that the time when they're both up together will be very short because assuming optimal Survivor strategy, the longest amount of time they will be up together is 30 seconds minus the amount of time it took for the Survivor to find the gen that pops first.
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@Rez_Marsiel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2443110#Comment_2443110
Like I said, it all depends on which killer is used. If you're playing against Supalf and he's playing nurse AND he gets a down in the first 30 or so seconds, there's still PLENTY of time on corrupt. Change my mind.
"Change my mind" is internet talk for "You'll never change my mind," so pass. All I'll say is that downing someone in that time frame does nothing to make Deadlock and Corrupt be active simultaneously any longer, so as far as I can tell, my point still stands.
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If this list is from someone who's apparently new, why is Nurse #6 instead of dead last?
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@chargernick85 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2443653#Comment_2443653
Sure. If that starts a pattern I don't like can always switch it. Your example would be sucky rng so lets hope for once the rng is in my favor.
Fair enough. The only thing I can say is that I am speaking from experience with this one.