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I think it's fine as-is. Sucks if they pull it off when the gates are open and make the escape, but I say they earned it in that case.
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Pig for days. :P Pig for a long time, actually.
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@Peanits said:
Nothing is planned in that regard. Delays suck, I get it, but they happen. There's a big difference between unexpected downtime and a delayed update. Downtime means you can't play, it makes sense to give some sort of compensation to make up for long periods of downtime. A delay just means a delay. It's still coming, you'll still get all the stuff you'd normally get, you can still play in the meantime. You lose absolutely nothing.
The alternative is putting out an update that is not ready to avoid having to give out compensation, and that's a very bad situation.
If you read between the lines, he's secretly saying they're giving out all the Legacy Skins to everyone to make up for it. ;)
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I already know that I have a long way to go to git gud, so I try not to use my personal experiences as a benchmark for balance changes I would like to see.
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Whichever one was not meant to be changed in any way whatsoever but ended up being broken anyways. :p
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I feel you on the Discordance thing. The second perk I unlocked for Legion was Discordance 2, and I got Discordance 3 almost as soon as I opened up the third perk slot.
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Won't the Survivors depip as well? Or at the very least waste add-ons?
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David. He has one perk and a downside attached. Granted, that one perk IS good and synergizes with that downside, but still.
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IMO, it's close to a good spot (though still quite strong). The only thing it really needs IMO is something to combat those cases where the Killer has already avoided tunneling the DS person and hooked a different person but ends up triggering DS anyways.
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@Mochan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/782930#Comment_782930
I see everyone suggesting Iron Will to survivors to counter Spirit, so you know, it's fair game.
If anything I'd love to see Franklin's removed from the game. There aren't many perks more annoying than Franklin's. Nothing like bringing in a nice item and losing it or having it rendered unusable thanks to Franklin's.
Imagine if Survivors had a perk that let them disable a killer's add-ons.
And to those who say Franklin's is not a way to break the key...
Well yes, Franklin's may not break the key. But in many cases it's as good as gone, and oftentimes you forget where you got hit in the heat of the chase. The key is ridiculously hard to find, and many times even knowing where I got hit it's a challenge to find it. You can waste a lot of time searching for it.
It's a strong counter to any item and it's more than enough counter play for the key, and there are other ways to counterplay against the key. I should know, I bring keys a lot and I get tunneled the crap out for it. Killers just need to be attentive in the lobby, that's what you have the lobby for right?
And you can notice survivors carrying keys in the game if they fished it out of a chest. I have noticed fellow survivors with the key at times and was surprised because they didn't have it in the lobby.
I just find this talk of breaking survivor items hilarious, I mean what if we could break Trapper's traps and they don't regenerate? This tips the game way too much in favor of killers again. Keys are the last good item Survivors have left that haven't been put through the nerf bat wringer.
And all this while Ebony Moris are still 100% unchallenged? Sorry, but I gotta take a stand.
"Imagine if Survivors had a perk that let them disable a killer's add-ons."
Maybe if the Killers had a way to re-enable those add-ons the way a Survivor can just pick up something they dropped, that would be potentially reasonable. :P
"Well yes, Franklins may not break the key. But in many cases it's as good as gone, and oftentimes you forget where you got hit in the heat of the chase. The key is ridiculously hard to find, and many times even knowing where I got hit it's a challenge to find it. You can waste a lot of time searching for it."
Not really, no. If you remember the general area where you got hit, you can just go back there when it is convenient to do so and pick it up. The key is not close to lost.
"It's a strong counter to any item and it's more than enough counter play for the key, and there are other ways to counterplay against the key. I should know, I bring keys a lot and I get tunneled the crap out for it. Killers just need to be attentive in the lobby, that's what you have the lobby for right?"
The only item Franklin's is really worth bringing in against IMO is the toolbox because they have to either go out of their way to pick up the toolbox again or leave it for later and do gens as normal, which both allows breathing room for the Killer. Also, hard tunneling the Survivor only works if a) that Survivor isn't great because otherwise they are just wasting your time exactly as planned while the gens are being done b) that Survivor isn't playing SWF because otherwise their teammate just grabs the key, rendering all that tunneling to stop the key play pointless c) somehow no one else in the lobby saw that X person had a key because nothing exactly stops them from doing the same thing
"I just find this talk of breaking survivor items hilarious, I mean what if we could break Trapper's traps and they don't regenerate? This tips the game way too much in favor of killers again. Keys are the last good item Survivors have left that haven't been put through the nerf bat wringer."
Keys are not the one thing that prevents the Killers from being crazy OP. This is the same logic people against nerfing insta-heals use, as well as the people who claim nerfing Moris will make the games unwinnable for Killers.
"And all this while Ebony Moris are still 100% unchallenged? Sorry, but I gotta take a stand."
Not every discussion about nerfing Keys or Moris need to also discuss nerfing the other side too.
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@ClaudettesUncle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/779796#Comment_779796
Keys aren't broken, you have to actually work for it. You probably know when the hatch is spawning, so you need much more effort in doing generators, instead of just hooking one survivor and just tunnel them to death to get an easy game, which is just unfun and boring to play against.
Moris after second hook would be balanced and actually fair, so the killer has to put some effort in it, like survivor do with the keys.
Did you even try to use Franklins? Its very simple, remember who got the key and try to bait them in a area, where they cant recognize the direct place and its of course very easy to just pick up the key at maps like shelter woods 😂
At all, the broken aspect between this two cant be compared at all and i highly hope for an mori nerf.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/779795#Comment_779795
So I experienced that the killer usually tunnels the injured person after the unhook to get an easy game.
By this silly logic keys should be usable for each survivor after 1 gen. Sounds dump? Yeah so do the current moris.
"so you need much more effort in doing generators"
No, you don't. At the absolute most, you need the same amount of effort as what it would take to power the Exit Gates. And that is assuming everything has gone well enough for the Survivors that you don't need the Key to escape. If you intend to use the Key to leave without finishing all the gens, you need less effort overall in doing generators because you need to do less generators to escape. That is the whole problem.
"Moris after second hook would be balanced and actually fair, so the killer has to put some effort in it, like survivor do with the keys."
While I don't necessarily disagree with moris after second hook (to a point), the equivalent of that for Keys would be only being able to open the Hatch after all the gens are done because in both instances, you have basically already finished your objective and are just using an alternate method of closing things out with only minimal benefit compared to normal (killing after second hook means you play around DS, and opening the Hatch after the gens are done means you save the team about 20 seconds of opening the Gates).
"Did you even try to use Franklins? Its very simple, remember who got the key and try to bait them in a area, where they cant recognize the direct place and its of course very easy to just pick up the key at maps like shelter woods 😂"
Maybe this will work against potatoes, but against decent Survivors, Franklin's doesn't do much to stop Key plays, if anything at all. At most, you would probably catch them off-guard for a bit when they realize you have Franklin's. Then they just remember where the Key is for future reference.
"At all, the broken aspect between this two cant be compared at all and i highly hope for an mori nerf."
They absolutely can because they both share the same core problem: They both cut down on the amount of progress needed to win the game by a substantial amount with no extra effort needed or downsides to compensate.
"By this silly logic keys should be usable for each survivor after 1 gen. Sounds dump? Yeah so do the current moris."
I'm not arguing that the current Moris are okay because I do not think they are. You are preaching to the choir here.
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@UlvenDagoth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/782774#Comment_782774
I'd break every key put in front of me and laugh madly the whole time. Just figured i'd confirm it for you.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/782797#Comment_782797
Are you kidding? Not to be rude, but If you have to look for the Key everywhere, which is UTTERLY TINY and dark so it's very easy to miss, then you would never find it unless you got lucky enough to win the lottery.... or kobe a hook.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/782885#Comment_782885
Franklin's Demise would take a million hits to break a key. In fact...
The lost Item is damaged in the fall, losing 0/5/10 % of its base amount of charges.
so if we take that, then it would take 10 hits to break a Key. That's if the survivor is stupid enough to
- Pick it up every time for 10 hits instead of leaving it till the hatch appears
- gets hit 10 times without dying and doesn't tell his friends where the key fell with Voice or pointing.
Hey, worst-case scenario, you could always make the Key more visible.
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@ItsBritneyBitch said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/731625#Comment_731625
I guess you are main killer player, and I guess you was suffering when a whole SWF team had MOM but that's your opinion as it's my feedback that's it.
I mean, there was a reason it was nerfed from its original incarnation (even if the nerf ended up making the perk pretty bad).
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@Mochan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/782773#Comment_782773
They already do. It's called Franklin's Demise.
Both you and I know that is not going to realistically happen.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/782797#Comment_782797
Ok so instead of everyone escaping because a key opens the hatch, everyone escapes because you have to spend 20 minutes searching every centimeter of the map for the tiniest, hardest to see model in the game that could be literally anywhere.
If you are dedicating all your time to finding it, you are probably doing it wrong. It's like the one person who is so dedicated to protecting their totem that the Survivors finish the gens anyways.
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Clown bottles his own farts. That makes sense.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/782777#Comment_782777
So then how is that any better balance-wise than keys now? It has all the exact same issues except you have to walk for 5 extra seconds to grab the key out of the bush next to your spawn point.
Because if the Killer saw that you had the Key in the lobby and then sees that you don't, then they know that you have hidden the Key somewhere. Unless you wasted time scouring the map for a good hiding spot, then it is safe to assume that the Key is not too far from where you found them (since they are likely going to go to the closest gen from where they dropped the Key, for the sake of not wasting time). The Killer doesn't have to go out of their way to find the Key until it is either necessary or safe to do so.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/782773#Comment_782773
I'd feel like there'd NEVER be a reason to bring a key at all, because they're so inherently broken that no killer would leave one unbroken. It would just be 7000 bloodpoints I'm never getting back.
If a Survivor wishes, they can always hide the Key to pick up later, hoping the Killer does not find it by chance. That seems like a way to sorta play around that.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/782768#Comment_782768
The only issue with keys is that they end games prematurely with basically no requirement except surviving the first 2 minutes.
I don't see any way they could be balanced without removing the ability to cheese it out the hatch halfway through a match.
You are very much right about the problem with keys, but I think that your suggestion is a biiiiiit too heavyhanded?
How would you feel if the Killer had the ability to break a Key?
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As for OP's, eeeeeehhhhhhh? When they stop being good at being a key, why even make them keys to begin with?
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@Tensor said:
More survivor type nerfs from the killer forums I see
Keys are in need of nerfs IMO, to be fair.
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@Nobsyde said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/782442#Comment_782442
This is not the way to approach a discussion, I'm not trying to sell anything. I have my idea and I expressed my reasoning behind it.
You don't agree with that? Fine, you're entitled to have your opinion, wrong or right it doesn't really matter, but still, try to be respectful.
Okay, then I disagree and follow up with what I said before.
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@Nobsyde said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/782285#Comment_782285
I’ve already explained it.
And I don't buy it. The downside comes in your inability to properly use it, rendering you as just an M1 killer.
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@Peanits said:
We are not planning to buff killers across the board*. We're reviewing things on a case by case basis. Sometimes that'll mean a weaker killer gets a buff (Freddy), other times it'll mean that killers that are too strong get a nerf (Nurse). The Doctor is coming up on our list and will be our next focus.
* There are some thing's that'll help regardless, though. Things like map reworks are going to take some of the problem spots and make them a little bit more fair for both sides. Though this isn't intended as a buff, more so to help with the edge cases where you can get a really good setup or a really bad setup.
"The Doctor is coming up on our list and will be our next focus."
*cue Mr. Burns going "Excellent."*
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I am gonna have to echo the sentiments of people saying this isn't the right time to implement something like this. I do like the idea on paper, though, and I wouldn't mind seeing it re-visited in the future.
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Everything below is my opinion.
Ones not worth going for:
Workshop Grease
Shattered Syringe
Razor Wire
Utility Blades
Face Mask
Rusty Attachments
Slow-Release Toxin
Interlocking Razor
Amanda's Secret
Rules Set No. 2
Amanda's Letter
Combat Straps, John's Medical File, and Video Tape are good with each other in any combo for improving Pig's ambush.
Last Will is good no matter what.
Bag of Gears is only really useful with Crate of Gears.
Jigsaw's Annotated Plan and Jigsaw's Sketch are decent-good no matter what, but Plan is best used with either Sketch or Last Will.
Crate of Gears is best with Sketch, Bag, or Tampered Timer.
Tampered Timer should only really be used if you want to go for RBT kills, as the add-on does nothing unless you nail a kill with it.
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@Nobsyde said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/782127#Comment_782127
that's not a downside from being broken out of stealth. There's no penalty: you just used your ability, now it's in cooldown.
What is a downside?
- Wraith - you can't hit while cloacked, and you take time to uncloak/cloak
- Michael - you are SLOW
- Pig - same as Michael, plus the crouched POV
- Nurse - fatigue after a blink (not related to undetectable, but on what is a downside to an ability)
and so on and so forth. This means that you have to make a choice - use your ability and risk to lose sight / give time to the survivor to do something against you, or save it but remain 100% in the chase?
The worst that happens to GF is to have the ability in cooldown. Yeah, whatever, I'm still chasing the survivor exactly as before.
How is it not a downside? You are locked out of it if you fail to take advantage of it, and it is not something any other stealth killer currently has.
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@Corrupted said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/782225#Comment_782225
Well yes, that's my point. In that aspect it's more powerful, just not likely or efficient. You are better off using the piece, I don't think this myers add on is at the top of the devs priority list though. If they do tamper with Tombstone, they are likely gonna rework it to cater for a new/different playstyle opposed to giving it a flat buff. But who knows.
It doesn't matter that the best-case scenario is better if:
1) That best-case scenario is squarely in "Magical Christmas Land" territory
2) It is much worse in just about every other scenario.
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@Corrupted said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/781355#Comment_781355
It's worse but at the same time it isn't, you can potentially kill all 4 survivors with Judith's tombstone in one sitting. You can't do that with the piece, now we all know that is highly unlikely to happen since he's so slow but it's the potential for 4 kills in a single sitting that gives it the ultra rare. It's potentially more powerful but not efficient. Very high risk high reward. In general though I think pink add ons aren't exactly meant to be all powerful, they grant different playstyle. Look at Nurse's new add ons. That's the route their going with it, I think.
No, it's much worse. On paper, you can kill all four in one sitting. In practice, you are lucky if you get even one. The risk is so high you would rather just use Tombstone Piece which has a much smaller risk for what will likely end up being the same reward.
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Insta-heals are unbalanced. They can very realistically remove a singificant amount of progress from the Killer with zero effort.
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@Nobsyde said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/782048#Comment_782048
agree to disagree :)
Hard to really make a case when it was already tested to be bad.
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No. That perk description has been outdated since the Halloween Chapter.
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@Nobsyde said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/782030#Comment_782030
Well, put it back lol. What was not okay was the constant sound that GF was emitting while undetectable - making him not stealth at all.
Well...no? It was taken out because it was really bad.
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@Nobsyde said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/782013#Comment_782013
the audio cue I'm suggesting wouldn't be permanent - it would play a sound when the GF enters his Undetectable status (similarly to the wraith bell), but then he would stay silent as it is now.
It would just be a notification to survivors "hey, be warned, even if you don't hear a TR the killer can be near!"
That was in the PTB and quickly removed.
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"the reveal mechanic is somehow broken right now due to camera-player-ghostface raytrace collision"
If the problem is that the reveal mechanic isn't functioning, the solution seems pretty obvious.
Also, wasn't the audio cue for GF taken OUT during PTB because it was a terrible idea?
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I imagine the perk would come with a decreased chance of being the Obsession, just like the ring add-on.
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I remember getting a lot of flack for it, but I'm still in favor of a one-use shotgun that can only be found in a chest and can't be taken out of a trial. It just needs downsides and restrictions to balance it out.
@joshuashep22 said:
Head on is the one exception to this if there was ever a way to fight back here would be my concept of how it would work in item form:
Steve's bat
Very rare item
1 charge
Can be used to stun the killer for 5 seconds the killer will drop any survivors they were carrying at the time and the user's aura will be revealed to the killer for 20 seconds.
Do you think this is balanced?
What are your idea's for how survivors could fight back but not be given too much power.
The bat is absurd, though. It is upside on top of upside with no way to play around it.
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@White_Owl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/779906#Comment_779906
You forget how survivors freak out if they spot Myers stalking them, especially if he is taking a lot of time tiering up, which can be used to scare them off gens. My point is that it's doable with some strategy, and JT being the strongest addon in the game it's supposed to be hard to use it.
I mean, they're not gonna just let you stalk them forever. A good Survivor knows how to break line of sight from him. That is already an issue for him normally, and "tremendously" increasing the time he needs to reach EW3 only makes that issue way worse.
I get what you are trying to say about JT being "the strongest add-on", but it's not. Its downsides make it a bad add-on. You want an actually usable version of this add-on, you look at Tombstone Piece.
@Corrupted said:
######### this discussion. All buffing it would do is add more toxicity to the game lol. Also, I don't think ultra rares or pinks are supposed to be better than purples. It just adds a new or different playstyle.
Ultra Rares should be better than a lower-rarity version that does the same thing. Otherwise, why is it a higher rarity if it does the same thing but worse?
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@TheALIEN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/780404#Comment_780404
If this gets nerfed 💔
It won't because it is meme-tier at best.
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@GennyFromTheBlock said:
🥴if bbq has so many counters, then why is it a problem to limit the number of aura readings?
Why is everyone still attacking me and mocking my "logic" but happily skirting on by my question?
Because it has so many counters. Like, you just answered your own question.
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I love it so.
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@blackx2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/779873#Comment_779873
When we playing as survivors realize that myers is taking too long to charge it can be considered as pressure to do the obvious, there's is no genrush.
Only survivors who want to do gens and others playing around trying to be funny, too scared and waiting for someone screw up, doing dull totems.. you know the drill.
Don't forget about ruin, discordance and other things to slow the pace.
By pressure, I mean defending the gens. Myers is not doing that if he is holding PWYF stacks for Tombstone (which would be noticable because Myers moving like molasses would indicate Tombstone, and Myers deliberately losing chases to the Obsession would indicate Play With Your Food), so Survivors are able to maximize gen efficiency knowing that Myers isn't doing anything to stop them.
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@blackx2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/779849#Comment_779849
"Survivors are free to genrush"
Indeed, doing gen is the new meta for a successful game.
The other person is suggesting using PWYF to make sure you can offset the speed debuff of Judith's Tombstone. If Tombstone Myers is actually trying to conserve his PWYF tokens for EW3, he isn't hurting people, so those Survivors are not under any pressure until EW3 kicks in (which now also takes longer thanks to Tombstone tremendously increasing the stalk needed to reach EW3). Hence, genrush.
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You may as well title that part of the tutorial "How to Grief as a Killer."
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@White_Owl said:
That makes it almost useless because all of the match, Michael is very slow so he can't reach easily survivor, making him easy to loop all the game.
The fact is that when using that addon you're not supposed to reach and chase survivors, but only to stalk for most of the time. That's Michael's thing in the movies and the addon reflects that.
Also with Play With Your Food (which you should have when using Judith's Tombstone), that addon can easily destroy a whole team. Buffing it would be insane.
I think Michael's power by default reflects Michael's "thing" in the movies.
Also, PWYF isn't enough to make Tombstone worth using. You still have to spend oodles of time stalking while Survivors are free to genrush, and once you do get to EW3, you are still unlikely to get more than one person with a single EW3. You are still better off just using Tombstone Piece.
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I have reservations about how devs handle balancing, but I have no problem with them delaying things to fix sudden issues. It shows that priorities are in order.
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Pig: Roll da dice.
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@ClaudettesUncle said:
Nah, keys are fine you have to work for it. Moris are not, killer can just tunnel them to death and thats not difficult.
If you have a problem with keys use Franklins....
By this logic, Moris are fine because you have to work to down someone two times.
(That logic is silly IMO, and neither Moris nor Keys are fine in my book.)
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Suggestion for how to buff Judith's Tombstone:
A large and heavy granite tombstone stolen from Mt. Sinclair cemetery, belonging to Judith Myers.
- Unlocks the ability to kill healthy or injured Survivors with Evil Within III.
- Disables the ability to stalk with Evil Within III.
- Considerably increases the amount of evil required to reach Evil Within III.
- Killing a Survivor moderately decreases movement speed until you return to Evil Within II.
- Killing a Survivor moderately decreases Evil Within III duration until you return to Evil Within II.
Now compared to the old Judith's Tombstone:
1) You don't receive the speed penalty until you kill someone with the Tombstone.
2) The speed penalty only lasts until you revert back to EW2.
3) You time in EW3 shortens if you kill someone with Tombstone, both to shorten the time you spend slowed down and to make it still challenging to chaingrab Survivors.
So it is still maaaybe possible to chain kill Survivors (unlike with current Tombstone, where even with Fragrant Tuft, it is still laughably difficult to pull it off), but you gotta still legitimately work to make it happen. If you can get 2+ kills off a single duration of EW3, by god you've earned it. Even compared to Tombstone Piece, you don't lose as much evil when going back to EW2.