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@blackx2 said:
The ability to kill everyone easily (no dying state required), I mean literally remove them from match..
That thing should have drawbacks or everyone is going to DC in a such unfair match.
It is fair to say that it should have drawbacks, but the drawbacks it currently has render it terrible. It is one of Myers's worst add-ons.
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@blackx2 said:
Dude, buff Judith's tombstone? Really? Heh.. that thing is already super OP.
See above post.
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They nerfed Pig roar spam, so logically they should nerf clicky clicky spam. ;)
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@blackx2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/768146#Comment_768146
There's ways to deal with that
There's a chance of 80% of try to get it back, Soo keep that place on mind.
Tunnel that survivor and remove him earlier.
Searching for key and getting it back is risky and probably a waste of time, but almost everyone does.
One, that percentage is made up.
Two, even if you do tunnel that person out of the game, that doesn't stop anyone else from grabbing the Key when it is convenient. That goes extra for SWF. Survivor progress doesn't have to grind to a halt because someone dropped a key to Franklin's.
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@Toxicboii said:
NO! NO! NO!
Judith's Tombstone has the capability to instantly remove ALL SURVIVORS from the game!! And the first thought that came to you is to BUFF IT?!
Are you out of your diddly darn mind?!
Judith's Tombstone is terrible, though. The slowdown it gives makes Myers a joke. Unless you are going for the Evil Incarnate achievement or Burger King Myers meme build, no good reason to use it over Tombstone Piece.
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Nope.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/779042#Comment_779042
@TAG What I think you are not seeing is how you can’t just escape simply because you have met the amount of gens repaired.
Many times it boils down to the killer...how good they are... what they are running...what map you’re on... etc. Keys are still unpredictable because you might get found before you can even use them.
Which is why I said not every match will have the same result just because someone has a key. Especially in solo surviving.
Also the other point is these are suppose to be ultra rare, to me something that is deemed to be that rare better do something amazing.
I asked for more scenarios, please. Not a change of discussion to avoid answering what I was saying.
Also, what you are describing is just a normal game of DBD, not anything specific to the Keys. That is the problem: the fact that you don't need to do anything that you don't already have to do to get this big benefit. That was the problem with insta-heals, that is the problem with Moris, that is the problem with Keys.
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@Volfawott said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/779020#Comment_779020
I don't know if it's just me but I really like the idea of a transformative add-on it turns Amanda from stall stealth hybrid killer into a pure stealth based killer.
Of course you would have to do more than just increase the aura since you're completely taken away one side of a power you would have to give the other side a massive boost.
Increasing the aura range to 24 m would just be one of the changes.
Add something like increased ambush range or decreased charge time.
Or an effect to her ambush hits like the Begrimed chainsaw.
I don't know I've always liked that on said completely change the way you play a killer.
Which is why scratched mirrors one of my favourite add-ons it completely removes your instadown and speed potential but you get insane stealth and mind game potential.
I did once make a Pig add-on for fun that completely upended the entire dynamic of the game by giving her Traps a bunch of big upgrades in exchange for successful RBT removal causing gens to automatically repair. :P
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/778742#Comment_778742
@TAG And yet there are more scenarios involved than you you list.
What you describe are only a few ways the key could get used. Most of the time people won’t just leave through the hatch unless it’s the only way out. Especially since having 3 gens and two teammates alive means nothing because the killer still has the upper hand.
This is still just your opinion. Nothing more. As I said before we’ll just agree to disagree because I don’t think they are as broken as you think.
List some other scenarios of the Key being used on the Hatch? Those are the only four I could think of. I guess there is also "use it by yourself after all gens are done," but that seems downright counterproductive.
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@Volfawott said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/686313#Comment_686313
Agree that Amanda's letter should remove your RTBs completely that way it's a lot more transformative however it definitely needs to increase the aura reading range to 24m because 12m isn't cutting it.
I don't think the increased Aura reading is good enough to warrant losing all of Amanda's slow-down potential, but that is just me.
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I propose we do it like other games with ranking systems. ;)
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@Mochan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/776983#Comment_776983
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/776978#Comment_776978
It bugs me that people claim that tehy don't even realize BBQ has an aura reading counter sometimes, then fight so hard to resist any nerfs to the aura reading.
If you really think the Aura Reading component of BBQ isn't important, then surely you should be okay with nerfing it.
If they think it's not important, then they don't think it is worth nerfing, so if it gets nerfed, it seems absurd from their point of view.
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It was a freebie for PS Plus. Was bored, so I gave it a shot and ended up liking it.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/776597#Comment_776597
@TAG As I said before again and again... I do look at the context of how they are used. Which is why I agreed with @Mochan 's post.
You can't determine if the odds are going to be in your favor SIMPLY because of the usage of an item.
The only reason I brought up how often you think you see them is because that is relative to the conversation. They are categorized as "Ultra Rare", meaning you shouldn't be seeing them in the bloodweb as often as you do.
Keys are used in one of four ways as far as opening the Hatch:
1) All Survivors have finished the gens and are still alive, so they use the Key to escape at the end of the game.
2) One or two Survivors have died, and someone is using the Key to jettison the entire remaining party with gens left unfinished.
3) One or two Survivors have died, and someone is using the Key regardless of whether their teammates are nearby because screw it I want out.
4) Everyone else is dead, the Killer has closed the Hatch, but luckily for that last Survivor, they still have a Key to pop it back open and still make the escape.
IMO, Scenario 1 is fine because the game is already in the final stage, and at that point, it's just an alternate method of escape.
Scenario 4 is also fine because at that point, the Killer has basically already won the game, and the last Survivor is just ensuring that they can at least salvage things for themself.
Scenario 2 is the big issue in my book because the Survivors are just shortcutting to the end of the game through no additional necessary effort and with no way for the opposition to really fight against it. It's just suddenly...done.
Scenario 3 is also sorta problematic but less so than Scenario 2 because while the Survivor in question is securing an early escape and allowing for the opportunity for the rest to escape, the fact that they are just going for it regardless of what the other Survivors are doing means that the Killer has a semi-reasonable chance to cut off escape for those Survivors.
You want context? There's your context.
The fact of the matter is that by just having a key, you are placing yourself in an noticeably advantageous position to end the game early in your team's favor (or at the very least, not in the Killer's favor) with no downside or no extra effort needed. That just ain't fair in my opinion.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/776554#Comment_776554
@TAG Yeah cuz every single match is the same. I've escaped when the killer had an Ebony Mori, and I've also died when I had a skeleton key. Go figure.
I didn't say every match plays out the same. The point is that you need to look at them in the context of how they affect trials when they are in play, not simply in the context of how often someone will run into an opponent using one.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/776542#Comment_776542
@TAG I don't have a problem with Ebony Moris either, so this is where we're gonna agree to disagree.
That's why I want neither nerfed.
Should they be made more uncommon? Sure. By all means. I think the Bloodweb system for ultra rare things is busted as it is. A player should not be seeing these on every single bloodweb page.
I have a problem with both, and thus I think both should be nerfed. Increasing the rarity doesn't solve the problem because it does not change how problematic either one is in an individual match.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/776530#Comment_776530
@TAG And why should they?
Why should they when the killer side has something that can equally if not more take you out of the game early?
Neither side should have access to that. Nerf keys and Moris.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/776515#Comment_776515
@TAG And doing 5/4/3 generators isn't a requirement?
As Mochan said, performing a Mori actually requires less objective time.
I said "no extra effort required," not "no requirements."
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@FrenziedRoach said:
Not to mention - if keys really bother you that much - you have options for dealing with it. Not the least of which is arming certain perks.
I don't think there is a single perk that deals with Keys meaningfully. Franklin's doesn't do it because it does not matter that the Key is on the floor as long as someone can pick it up when it's convenient or necessary to do so.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/775004#Comment_775004
@Mochan
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
This is exactly what I’ve been saying!
People in these forums just love to complain about things with no context of what took place during the match, because as long as they had a bad match where someone escaped with a key “It’s unfair”.
Yesterday alone I died 4 times with a key in my hand. A key doesn’t automatically guarantee an escape. Period.
The problem isn't that a Key is a guaranteed escape (because it's not). The problem is that it can cut the game short to the benefit of one side with no extra effort required and with no downsides.
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@Mochan said:
So what is the problem with 4 people escaping through the hatch?
For that to happen all 5 gens have to be completed. The game's pretty much over by then, so what's the problem? (And the killer screwed up for that matter)
Have you even tried getting that achievement? It is freaking hard to do.
Keys are fine. They are nowhere near as OP and unfair as, say, an Ebony Mori. Keys are fair, especially after the EGC change.
4-man escapes with a Key are fine in my book for the reasons you stated, but I wouldn't call Keys fair overall since they, like Moris, can suddenly cut the game short out of nowhere regardless of what the tempo of the game is up until that point or who had the advantage at that moment.
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@PGJSF said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/775208#Comment_775208
So what are we trying to accomplish? The game should remove the ability from people to write down things? Or maybe the ability to read? Or maybe you just want the Mori out of the game, which is a totally different topic.
You do realize that there are plenty of ways to see those nicknames outside of the game? People with lists are not gonna stop because you remove names.
We are trying to accomplish removing names from the pre-game lobby. Simple.
@PGJSF said:
Btw I’m gonna end it here because this looks just a bunch of survs whining because they got mori’d and are now sad.
Learn to lose.
I'm a dedicated Killer main in support of OP's suggestion.
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Killer: Monstrous Shrine
Survivor: Diversion
@UberMorpth said:
I think rework would be more of an appropriate term as many perks are just straight up terrible and a buff wouldn't fix em here's some random examples I came up with.
Monsterious Shrine: Only usable with Iron Grips and Adgitation which both aren't that great to begin with otherwise terrible perk at the moment, perhaps a new effect could be added or increase the debuffs to survivors on the basement hooks.
Beast of Prey: The fact this only actives after getting Bloodlust negates the possible mindgames as that point unless your looping the survivor at a los loop they will still be able to look behind and see you coming at them, I'm not sure how they could improve it currently maybe make it activiable after getting Bloodlust? Otherwise I think it just needs a rework as it also doesn't fit Huntress's playstyle.
Overcharge/Pog Goes The Weasel: I lump these both in as they do the same thing Ruin does but worse which is stalling the game out, let's not forget you have to waste time kicking a gen, is even worse with PGTW as you only have at most 30 seconds to find a gen which means not chasing anyone during that period of time. The worst part for both of these is they are completely negated by a survivor just tapping a gen to cancle out the effect, perhaps they could make it so you have to actually hold the repair action to cancle out OC or PGTW for like 5 seconds.
"is even worse with PGTW as you only have at most 30 seconds to find a gen which means not chasing anyone during that period of time"
That is wrong. You have a full minute to find a gen with Pop.
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Extra BP for using less perks is a feasible idea. Extra BP for using "non-meta" perks less so because what is considered "non-meta" is something that could theoretically change on a whim.
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@PGJSF said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/774412#Comment_774412
Dude the sense of the post is “is a random person allowed to write my nickname on his personal list and then use that list to decide if using a powerful game mechanic against me or not?” YES he is allowed to do that. He can do whatever he wants until he doesn’t break the rules of the game.
The entire point of the thread is that this ability should be stripped away. Saying that it shouldn't be stripped away because the game allows you to do it currently makes no sense.
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@Nobsyde said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/774431#Comment_774431
My friend, I really don't understand if you are not getting the point or pretending not to..
I assume you understand that to get just two survivors down, one time, the whole game is trivially easy. If you think otherwise, I really don't have anything else to add to our discussion, I'm not here to argue on something so basic :)
One by camping? Perhaps. Two by camping after the gens are probably done? Different story unless Survivors are bad. There is a reason Leatherface is considered a bad Killer.
Besides, worst-case scenario, we can legitimately target camping in ways beyond "Camping? Harumph! We're gonna punish you in the worst way possible: TAKING AWAY POINTS. OOOOooooOoOooOoooOOoOooOo"
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How to make Deep Wound better: Give it to the Pig. :P
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@knell said:
It's end of 2019 and people still think this is a team game?
M Cote: "It’s anti-social multiplayer where survivors have to collaborate and cooperate up to a certain point. The old saying is that you don’t need to be fast than the killer, you just need to be faster than your friends."
Devs are allowed to be wrong. ;)
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@Nobsyde said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/774415#Comment_774415
if you just spam haoudkens, you'll be demolished by every player that knows how to counter it.
You can't counter a leatherface camping, and two survivors downed the whole game is all that is needed for "the draw".
But then again, you can think and play however you want, if you think that it is a draw/win/loss... good for you, that's subjective.
Just know that it is obviously not objective.
And if you genrush and all make the escape, you demolished the Leatherface (by that system), no?
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@Nobsyde said:
ahah ok :)
I mean, why not? It's like saying it's not really a win if all you did was spam Hadoukens.
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@PGJSF said:
I fully get the point of the thread. And I am saying that a Mori is not harassment, it’s a game mechanic.
I don't think you get the point of the thread if your counterpoint is basically that Moris are a part of the game.
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@Nobsyde said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/774365#Comment_774365
killer is leatherface.
Gets one, camps him - 1k.
Gets another one (maybe even with NOED, why not), camps him - 2k.
No gen pressure, no chases. Is this really a draw?
Yes.
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@Nobsyde said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/774305#Comment_774305
this is false though.
Dbd is a 4vs1 game, survivors vs killer. If anything, you should say something along the line "a 4K is a killer win, a 0K is a survivors win, 2K a draw". Which wouldn't be that smart of a statement.
Let's use your basketball example: the goal is to score more points than your opponent. But that is as a team, if you, as a player, score 50 points, the second best player scores 25 points, but your team lost the game... did you win anyway?
That's what happens when you think "if I survive, I win", no matter what you did during the game.
I mean, I go by "3-4k is a Killer win, 0-1k is a Survivors win, 2k is a draw." Seems about as straightforward as you can get.
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FWIW, I don't think being able to break Trapper/Hag traps with Toolboxes and Flashlights respectively should be a thing.
Given how all the Traps do is slow you down (something another Killer already can do with no way to stop it, really) and maybe implement a (not great) penalty if you use specific add-ons, and given how the Traps do nothing against Survivors who are awake, I think it's fine to make them not be able to be removed without triggering them.
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While I think the idea of a genre-saavy Survivor is cool from a lore perspective, mechanically-speaking, I don't like the idea of Survivor tools (perks, in this case) that are designed to specifically neuter Killer powers, let alone try and counter as many as possible.
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@Mochan said:
Unsafe pallets are fine. In my opinion most maps should have almost no safe pallets. There should only be two or three strong pallets and vault areas in a map.
BUT in return the devs should focus on making the game more stealth-friendly again for survivors.
I'd be on board with this.
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@altruistic said:
OoO I have one for the class.
"mongolian"
I think I know what that person meant to say, but they simply used the wrong word.
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"See, everyone's like, 'but what if we all die and still get an award?' "
Yes, I like her.
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@Satsui said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/772652#Comment_772652
But if you are injured, any hit would instadown you anyway, so it's really not good against "instadowns" in particular.
The new version is really quite lame and very situational in comparison to the old version.
"The new version is really quite lame and very situational in comparison to the old version."
That's not surprising, considering the power behind the old one.
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Moldy Electrode base kit, for one.
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@kaeru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/771331#Comment_771331
Since you crouch close enough o_0/ She covers 16 meters on 6.4 m/s speed for a 2.5 seconds. If survivor stand in the loop, only way to avoid hit, it's abandon loop before attack starts. If survivor working on a gen, hit is pretty much unpreventable. So that's why I count dash attack as guaranteed hit
The only time ambush is ever really useful is at some unsafe loops.
Dashing at someone on a gen is just less efficient than uncrouching and running in for the attack/grab.
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Ez solution: Give Survivors the option to die once they've bled out a certain amount (probably at least half, maybe 2/3?)
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@Mochan said:
Here's the thing to note.
Even with the maps being "survivor-sided" that doesn't actually mean most survivors have an easy time of it on those maps.
The survival rate is well below 50% as a whole even on the most survivor-sided maps.
I mean, these sort of tier-list-like discussions are generally only really relevant to high-skill players anyways.
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@Raptorrotas said:
Killer is supposed to have the information advantage in the lobby. its part of the balance btw.
Funny that survivors want those borderline gamebreaking CWF-infos for all, but demand killer to lose all available info.
But fine, hide all that info, but in exchange, all killers would get buffed to go against 4 toolboxes, 4 flashlights, 4 keys, 4 firecrackers etc all at once. Doesnt matter if survivors cant bring that many tho.
I mean, OP isn't suggesting that we cover up all the Survivor info. Just names.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/771251#Comment_771251
It really isn't... It mostly has to do with the size of the map, letting you monitor and patrol generators with more ease... And even if Billy is on that map you can still chainsaw people pretty easily... Having a smaller map actually makes it easier in some regards.
My understanding is that despite the small size, it still has a large percentage of super safe pallets/loops. Killers can still patrol more easily than on a normal map, but their chases are pretty bad unless you are Nurse and Spirit. Mirror Myers doesn't bother with looping and goes for ambush attacks, and 3-gen Doc makes up for it with an absurdly potent/frustrating stall ability on that map.
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I was under the impression that The Game was Survivor-sided unless you were either a Nurse, Spirit, Mirror Myers, or Three-Gen Doc.
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I'm on board with hiding all names + user profiles in the lobby, personally.
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Why not just refer to the Obsession as just the Obsession? You don't need to refer to them as "The Unforgiven." You could even just make it an Obsession Hex perk if you wanna make it a Hex perk?
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@Tarvesh said:
I think blindness should:
- Put the survivor into first person.
- Surround their vision with wispy darkness similar to Legion's berserk.
- Hide auras.
- Hide the killer's red stain.
All for the duration of blindness.
That first one would require devs to make new animations for Survivors walking/running/crouching sideways and backwards.
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Boooo, I just tested it out. They just slightly increased the time after canceling a charge before you can charge again. Das not what I wanted.