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I did have fun with the Photographer (having gen slow-down straight-up built into your power is cool too), but the 1.15 damage thing was dumb. I'd still want the Photographer, just no 1.15 damage thing.
(also seeing that this thread got necro'd, but eh, can't delete my post)
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I am fine with just getting the Elephant mask and body suit and leaving it at that.
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@Peanits said:
Yes, that's Moo Moo. Moo Moo is sleeping.
Nobody can convince me that she isn't sleeping.
Moo Moo must be filled with nothing but sweet dreams because she tasted delicious.
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Crap, I wish I had read all the options before making a choice. Otherwise, I would have put myself down for "Maps are the issue, not gen speed."
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I see Steve and Nancy pretty frequently myself.
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Stupid idea to give Clown more map pressure:
He has a tiny clown car he can get in and out of.
Clown car lets him move faster and run people over, as well as still throw gas bottles.
Clown car has limited fuel that goes down gradually and once it runs out, the engine sputters out and goes on a long cool-down before the Entity refuels the gas tank. The car cannot be moved except by being driven, so Clown must leave the car behind while being recharged and manually go to it again once it is ready.
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I don't use it on my main, but if I were to play as Myers, I'd probably use it on him to stack it with the vault speed increase from EW3 Myers.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1001089#Comment_1001089
I realise that, but this is still taking away from the initial discussion. This is just some logic that I somehow concocted while at work, then posted after a few drinks.
What can we use to have the slowdown effect of old Hex: Ruin? I thought that Dying Light could have that effect. Maybe not.
I've been trying to experiment a bit with different perks on Pig to see if I can find something. I feel like Pop is going to be an absolute yes (I've been preferring Pop to Ruin for a while, even though up until the Ruin change announcement I've been running both) So far, I've been trying Corrupt Intervention, but I'm not terribly satisfied with the results. I've already tried the whole Thana + Sloppy thing on Pig, but I don't think Thana works on Pig very well simply because her stealthing is too slow to be able to sneakily jump from person to person and consistently keep everyone injured. One thing I still want to try once the Ruin change happens is to pair the new Ruin with Thrilling Tremors to both be able to ID which gens are being worked on (which is just a Tremors thing, to be fair) and to be able to effectively guarantee 30ish seconds of regression.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1000981#Comment_1000981
Thought I might mention it, because first unhook the Survivors are at a 7% penalty because of your perks. You get the person who unhooked. That's now 14%.
They heal the other guy, so they're back to 10%. They're not on generators.
You snowball it out by increasing the overall penalties over time. Making those precious last few seconds tick away while the survivors panic that they're all on the verge of death.
Am I overthinking this too much? Probably. Then again, I also main Pig and my main tactic is to stall out with RBT and snowball kills.
There are A LOT of factors that can really diminish the effectiveness of that, as:
1) You don't get that 7% penalty until you chase,down, and hook someone.
2) 7% might not be terribly impactful if you don't get that first hook in a short amount of time
3) In order to get to 14% from there, you need to get a second person before the first person is unhooked and healed.
4) The Obsession can unhook and heal the first Survivor noticeably faster than normal, and you get no Dying Light benefit from hooking the Obsession. So if you go back and find that the unhooker is the Obsession who has already healed up the Survivor (which is not unlikely, as the healing boost from Dying Light is stronger than the healing nerfs from both Sloppy and Thana when not everyone is injured/dying/hooked), you can't go after the unhooker if you want the full benefit of the combo.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1000917#Comment_1000917
I understand that, but with the severe popularity of characters, such as Myers, Ghostface and Hillbilly, then having an instant-down would be super easy and able to apply the pressure quickly THAT way.
And like I also said, you can stack it with other perks.
I think the problem is that Dying Light only really does something even a little meaningful with Thana, and Thana is only useful on a small number of Killers.
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@Poweas said:
Can you please give me a good rework idea for it then? Since they both counter 'toxic' (although most effective in my eyes) playstyles. DS counters Tunnelling, and NOED counters Genrushing.
I see way too many people complaining about them, but instead of complaining, try to offer up a good rework idea. This isn't a rant, I genuinely want to see what people have in mind for a nerf/rework.
DS - Pause the DS timer while in the Dying state; deactivate DS if someone else is hooked after the DS timer has progressed five seconds. Seems simple enough.
NOED - This is kind of a weird one, but I'll try. Instead of it being a Hex perk, make it a token based system where you get tokens for 1st/2nd hooking people before the Exit Gates are powered, lose tokens whenever someone dies/is sacrificed, and get the NOED ability after the last gen is finished as long as you have a certain number of tokens. This way, you only get the benefit at the end of the game if you actively made a lot of hooks throughout the game instead of tunneling people to death.
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@Calabrum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/999166#Comment_999166
But that would be punishing them for taunting and loligagging... lol.
Only if they get caught by the Killer. ;)
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As long as we're throwing out ideas, how about we make it so downing a person who is inside the Exit Gate areas prevents them from leaving the trial for a few seconds? Just long enough for the Killer to be able to pick them up. That way, people who linger within the Exit Gates (especially to wait for the Killer to down them so they can fall into the exit) instead of just GTFOing do so at their own peril.
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@VincentRedfield said:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xFk2vmkWths&t=339s
So i watched this video and it hit me.
Multiple times Tru3 smacks a person off a gen then goes and kicks it. They get away with the extra time and no hooks just a wound.
Now what if Tru3 had a perk that automatically regressed generators when survivors got off so instead of going back to kick it and let them go he could chase them down for a hook? Hmmm... What would we call this new perk?
How about "Despair?" That way, when you use it with Ruin, you can call the combination "Ruin and Despair." That has a nice ring to it.
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The one real problem with Ghostface is that his revealing mechanics are janky to the extreme. Survivors can both reveal him when they have no business to and fail to reveal him when he is in super plain sight.
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NOED is too unreliable for me to really want to use it unless I am leveling up a Killer and have no better alternatives. Sure, I can maybe snowball a comeback, but that kinda requires Survivors to get greedy once they know about NOED and requires me to get lucky that no one finds the totem.
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@Almo said:
This is why the Gatekeeper emblem was changed with Ruin. In terms of emblem points, it's no longer important to keep 5 gens up the first two minutes to get all those points.
In terms of the game's power curve, it's expected the first couple gens go fast. 4 Survivors, one Killer... several chases to get one Survivor out. But as the number of gens to patrol decreases, it becomes easier for the Killer to patrol, and their power rises. As the Survivors die off, the Killer's power increases more as there are fewer Survivors to work on gens.
Old Ruin gave people who depended on it the idea that it should not require input from the Killer to keep the first couple gens from popping in the first couple minutes. But that is not how we intend the game to work. My apologies for leaving old Ruin in place as long as we did; it was hard to find a good update, and we knew there would be a huge outcry from the players when we did the change, no matter how good it was. The moment I joined the project in August 2018 I knew Ruin was something I wanted to change. It took a lot of time and a lot of discussion with the other designers to find something worthy to replace it.
New Ruin requiring Killers to act in order to get its benefit is by design. Its lack of large impact in the first minutes is by design. Its subtlety is by design (by subtle I mean that one of its large benefits isn't mentioned in the text: no need to spend time kicking gens). Because we recognized Ruin's impact on the Gatekeeper emblem and Killers' ability to pip, we made the alteration to that emblem.
We can easily understand players' frustrations with this deep change to one of their core tools. But the opinion of all of us on the design team is that the new Ruin will make the game healthier overall. Our willingness to stand by it in the face of such anger over the change is an indication of our confidence in the new design and the benefits it will have in the long run.
Our willingness to stand by it in the face of such anger over the change is an indication of our confidence in the new design and the benefits it will have in the long run.
I said this before, and I will say it again. You really, really better hope you guys are right about this belief because these words could come back to haunt the devs hardcore if the change ends up backfiring.
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Nope. If I hypothetically wanted to get the Killer's attention away from someone else or something else, I'd just find them and run up to them.
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@Kagari_Leha said:
Nothing "needs to go", just to be reworked
Just like moris, they deny the work of a side towards "victory". So, ask them to rework keys and moris. That's all.
just like toolboxes should get adressed now that Ruin is reworked, since map design takes way more time to correct.
And well while waiting, if you're terrified of keys... Play Franklin's Demise ?
I agree with pretty much all of this except the Franklin's bit. I personally don't think Franklin's is a good answer to Keys.
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Headrush into the basement when playing against Trapper and get snared by a Bear Trap. This goes quadruple if Kindred made it obvious the Trapper was setting up Traps in the basement.
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I think the Elephant Mascot skin kinda gets the point across well enough alone.
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@LordGlint said:
Completely forgot rank reset was today, so pretty sure I reset from rank 4 to...5, lol.
That is definitely what happened to me. :P
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@LetsPlayTogether said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994406#Comment_994406
Negative effects right from the start are punishments. Nothing to discuss. Also as long as noone gets downed this still proceeds.Thats being punished for playing well. Nothing to discuss, too. Thats just unlogical in every manner.
If it lasted for a long time because no one was put into the dying state, that is probably a good thing for Survivors because it means the Killer had made no progress in all that time. Besides, you could always put a time cap on how long the speed penalty lasts to make sure that it doesn't last an unreasonable amount of time.
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Please no. Having new players more consistently matched up with seasoned players than what already happens now would be a nightmare for the former and unsatisfying as heck for the latter.
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Lol, I admit that I've done the reversed headphone thing a number of times. :P
I think my embarrassment moment happened pretty early on in DBD where I played several games as Trapper wondering why I only had one Bear Trap the entire game, only to eventually realize that there are Bear Traps scattered all throughout the map.
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@DwightOP said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994278#Comment_994278
That's your fault if you don't notice that. Awareness is something you have bring with.
Not necessarily. Sometimes the other Survivor is hiding around a corner out of sight, and if you see nothing, it is possible that as you begin to leave, they immediately make the save. Obviously, that's not always what happens, but there are times where they are just able to make the save right in front of your face before you can hit the rescuer.
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@CLAUDETTEINABUSH said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994425#Comment_994425
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994432#Comment_994432
Ok both of you stop. You are literally ruining everything with your argument. Imo u agree with @The_Second_Coming
As a purple rank killer,I rarely ever use a Mori,more often I use them for the dailies. They are not that common to use. Now both stop arguing. If you want to,then direct message each other in a private chat
Thank you.
I mean, if you want to believe the other person, go right ahead. I cannot say for myself whether they are right or wrong.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
Like an energizer battery, this guy. Dude, you need to pipe down and realize when you backed yourself into a corner. You admit to having inadequate experience in that which you are arguing. That's really where your high ground ends. With a big steep cliff edge.
Arguing what, though? Not that you are wrong. Only that you haven't put forth evidence to your claim. Something that you yourself have actually agreed with because you are saying that you do not have to bring forth proof because what you are saying is just based on personal experience.
@Daddy_Ding_Dong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994432#Comment_994432
I wouldn't put it exactly like that, but yeah. Pretty much. Just go on about your day, he threw the debate. Also, be less aggressive. It didn't make you look any better.
Am I wrong in claiming that the other person has not put forth evidence in substantiating their claim? I should point out that I am not saying whether this person is right or wrong. Only pointing out that they have not put forth any evidence to support their argument (what they HAVE said is something to the lines of "this is based on my personal experiences," which itself is its own form of logical fallacy).
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@Daddy_Ding_Dong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994404#Comment_994404
Again - without the experience, which you freely admit, you are in no position to be in opposition of anything. So, just chill man. Take a knee.
I am asking that the person shows stuff to support their claim. It does not make sense to say that someone can't do such a thing if they don't have a similar level of experience. If a seasoned sailor says "I've found the Loch Ness Monster", and random yacht owner says "Show us the evidence that this is true," is the yacht owner not in a position to say such a thing because they do not have the experience of the seasoned sailor to make their own judgement call?
Me not being in a position to offer my own belief on the frequency of Moris in high ranks does not make the claim that the other person is making on the matter not unsubstantiated. It is completely within reason to question the validity of the claim if there is nothing shown to actually support it, regardless of how much experience I may have. Again, it is not declaring that the claim is WRONG. Just that the claim has not been backed up by evidence.
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@Daddy_Ding_Dong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994395#Comment_994395
You may be right, there. I may have misread. In any case - admitting to not having experience, you don't get to demand proof from anyone on something you have no ground to speak on. So just chill, man.
The whole point of "burden of proof" is that someone is not obligated to provide evidence proving that a claim made by someone else is false (unless the first someone is actively claiming that it is false, then the burden is indeed on them to demonstrate that). The whole point is that someone making a claim needs to demonstrate that the claim they are making is true for such a claim to be reasonably accepted. Not doing so does not make their claim wrong, merely unsubstantiated.
Personal experience falls under another logical fallacy known as "anecdotal evidence." That by itself does not necessarily make a claim true because it is entirely possible that someone else may have personal experiences that contradict said anecdotal evidence.
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@Daddy_Ding_Dong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994377#Comment_994377
That would be valid - if - the data wasn't readily available to you. Which it is.
And you did take a stance on it. You said, in your own words "I think they are too common"; now you're saying you don't have a stance, and even emphasized that at high ranks, you don't know. This leads me to believe that through his..."words", he may have been right in that you don't actually know what you're talking about when it comes to red rank game play in survivor. So maybe this is a debate you shouldn't have gotten into if you don't have the experience to back it up. How can you think they are too common, and then admit to not having experience? You threw the debate right there, man.
You can only use the "burden of proof" shtick when you actually have conflicting experience to disagree with it. Since you admittedly don't have that experience, you have no right to be calling him out on it. No matter how flawed his argumentative and obviously biased standpoint was.
Have a good one, dude
That would be valid - if - the data wasn't readily available to you. Which it is.
That's...not how it works. The purpose of the concept of burden of proof is that it lies on the person making the claim to demonstrate their point and not on other people to disprove it.
And you did take a stance on it. You said, in your own words "I think they are too common"
Pardon me? I just CTRL+F'd this exact phrase, and nowhere does it show up on any of the posts I have made on this thread.
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Currently rank 4 Killer (which I admittedly reached only very recently, for what it is worth).
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@Daddy_Ding_Dong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994359#Comment_994359
It absolutely is unreasonable. You're more or less choosing to ignore the data that can be easily obtained yourself in order to stand on your pseudo soap box. I can fully back you up that he's handling himself the wrong way, but you're on no intellectual high ground here. You're literally just as bad. The argument your making goes against what red rank survivors see.
He's right in that if a mori offering or two every 10-20 games is "too much", then it sounds like a personal problem.
You're more or less choosing to ignore the data that can be easily obtained yourself
What you are describing right here is straight-up a logical fallacy known as "shifting the burden of proof," where the person making a claim (I should clarify that you are not the person in question) is trying to move the burden of providing evidence to the person asking for said claim to be supported rather than the person making the claim in the first place.
I am not taking a stance on whether or not Moris are too common or not (particularly at higher ranks), as I do not even have enough personal experience as a Survivor to make such a stance.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994349#Comment_994349
I literally said it was based off my experience. You're straight up being unreasonable by asking me to provide statistical data. Red rank killers HOARD mori offerings. They barely use them.
You edited this into a reply several posts in after claiming that you were basing this on "reality" and "common knowledge." I don't believe it was unreasonable to ask you to provide support to your claim before you edited in that it was based on your experience.
@Daddy_Ding_Dong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994349#Comment_994349
No, you've pretty much been doing the same thing he has. You're both as bad as one another. You're asking him (or her?) to prove something they never said they had proof of.
I was asking them to substantiate a claim that they argued was common knowledge. Hardly unreasonable IMO.
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@Daddy_Ding_Dong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994335#Comment_994335
you're not really doing any better than him, to be fair. All you're doing is saying "nuh uh" to his "uh huh". You're pretty much just as bad. You should both have a time out.
For what it's worth, I don't see that many mori's at red ranks either. So he does have a point. Even though he's terrible at making said point. They are mostly common with killers who rely on them more, which are, like he said, yellow, brown and to an extent, green rank killers. If they are too common for you, I think that speaks a lot to your rank. He's not exactly wrong when he says red rank killers "hoard" mori offerings. They simply don't feel the need to use them aside from special circumstances. For me that's usually if I know one of the survivors:P
In any case, I play mostly survivor, and I am consistently at rank 1-2 every season. Mori's are extremely uncommon.
He is saying "uh huh." I am saying "show me." I don't think it is bad to be unconvinced at someone who is actively and arguably deliberately not demonstrating their point.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994312#Comment_994312
Except - I specified that the claim is based off my own experience, and other rank 1 survivors that I watch in streams. Therefore - the burden of proof is invalid. I do not have to prove my own experience. Now please, stop quoting the google dictionary, and try something you can win. <3
Except - I specified that the claim is based off my own experience, and other rank 1 survivors that I watch in streams.
When I asked you what the claim was based on, you responded that it was based on reality. When I said that is not something you have proven, you told me to prove otherwise. When I brought up burden of proof, you said that you did not have to prove it because that was the "average experience of a red rank survivor." You eventually edited in far later on that this was based on what you have experienced, but as you can see by the stuff I am quoting, that was not something I had seen when making a response. And even from there, you did not say "I myself have found moris to not be too common in my experience." You once again reiterated: "Mori's are simply not common among red rank killers."
If my experiences viewing other red ranks led me to believe that moris are too common, your view does not trump mine. It simply means that our own observations have led us to different beliefs, and neither of our claims is necessarily more or less valid than the other. It would fall on some other more definitively demonstrable factor to show how things actually play out.
Mind you, I have never once claimed that you were wrong. I merely stated that your belief is not a fact that has necessarily been demonstrated to be true. If indeed you are basing this purely on your own personal, subjective experiences, then my response will simply be to acknowledge it as such. Not wrong, not invalid, but not a definitive fact either.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994255#Comment_994255
Mori's are simply not common among red rank killers. We don't like to use them. Even we consider them unfair. I never said I had the data to prove it, so yes, you continously asking me to prove it is a strawman. I never said I had proof, therefore there is no burden of said proof. I LITERALLY quoted that it was from my experience, and observed experience of other red rank survivors. When you get out of yellow ranks, you'll figure it out too. :)
Again - climb down out of my ass and ask BHVR. They have the statistical data. Troll elsewhere, buddy boy.
I never said I had the data to prove it, so yes, you continously asking me to prove it is a strawman. I never said I had proof, therefore there is no burden of said proof.
That is not how burden of proof works. Burden of proof means that it is up to the person making a claim to provide proof, not that the person has to demonstrate proof only if they say they have proof. You claimed that reality demonstrates that the claims of moris being too frequent are highly exaggerated. If I ask you to demonstrate that to be true, simply stating "I never said that I have proof" does not mean that it falls on someone else to disprove the claim. It simply means you simply aren't showing that the claim you are making is demonstrably true.
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@AsePlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994278#Comment_994278
Tunnel and wait for BT to run out before hitting if you're so worried about it.
Depends on what's around them. If they can reach a strong pallet/loop in that time, then the Borrowed Time still did its job.
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@DwightOP said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994106#Comment_994106
Huh? U hit the unhooker before unhooking, he u hooks, you hit the unhooker again on the spot. And there you go, new good for free.
That's assuming they unhooked with you physically looking at them. I'm talking unhooking as soon as you take two steps away.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994226#Comment_994226
You're trying really hard to create an intellectual corner to stick me in - and it's not working. The burden of proof strawman doesn't work *when it's common knowledge*. You don't get to throw it at me when you've never been to red ranks.
*dusts off shoulder* Try harder.
What strawman? If it's common knowledge, it should be simple to demonstrate it to be true. So demonstrate it to be true.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994203#Comment_994203
As I said, ask a competent survivor how often, at red ranks, they see a Mori from a red rank killer. It's not frequent. They can't both hoard them and use them all the time. That's not how it works.
I don't have to prove it. This is the average experience of a red rank survivor.
As I said, ask a competent survivor how often, at red ranks, they see a Mori from a red rank killer. It's not frequent. They can't both hoard them and use them all the time. That's not how it works.
Hey, you're the one making the claim. Burden of proof. Show me the Survivors saying this.
I don't have to prove it. This is the average experience of a red rank survivor.
You have not proven that. The point is that it falls on the person making that claim to support it.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/994186#Comment_994186
Feel free to join me at red ranks. Any competent survivor, AND killer will tell you if they are at red ranks, a mori from other red rank killers is uncommon.
Like I said, based on reality. Prove otherwise. Spoiler: You can't.
Feel free to join me at red ranks. Any competent survivor, AND killer will tell you if they are at red ranks, a mori from other red rank killers is uncommon.
And if a competent Survivor and Killer says otherwise?
Like I said, based on reality. Prove otherwise. Spoiler: You can't.
The burden of proof lies on the person that made the claim.
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That is not something you have proven, nor is it something I believe you can actually prove.
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@gantes said:
No reason to change BT. If they're downright farming you can easily go for the rescuer. If they're not you could be doing something else rather than returning to the hook and tunnelling the unhooked survivor. If they're hook diving and the gates are powered, kills should be hard to secure since you failed to kill anyone prior to that.
If they are farming and you go for the rescuer, the hooked guy that got unrescued right in your face gets away clean, which still means that the Survivor succeeded in making a stupidly unsafe rescue. Not good design.
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@DwightOP said:
Don't camp. If they farm, good for you. Instant pressure.
I see absolutly no reason to give bt exhaustion status.
If they farm, they effectively ignore the penalty for farming, which is going down again on the spot. So I would not say "good for you."
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@Blueberry said:
I'd rather it be a trade.
It transfers the hit from the person rescued to the rescuer. This preserves its purpose of protecting the rescued survivor but prevents completely unsafe hook rescues with no consequence.
Hm. That is not a turrible idea, actually.
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@stvnhthr said:
What you do with it is up to you. I've Kobed before in front of a killer and escaped. It is supposed to be a perk, you get to use it even if it wastes the killers time. They waste survivors' time a lot. I would say they should make the killer spin away when this happens, sort of how hag traps disorient survivors when it spins them.
So now you just want to buff Deliverance to get a safe escape against a Killer who has not left yet. I do not think this is necessary.
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@Colton147 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/993848#Comment_993848
Fair enough.
Unbreakable can also be considered fine (I have no issue with it; probably one of the meta perks I personally love and don't mind; I play off-meta with perks, both survivor and killer), as it is single-time use (excluding No Mither synergy) and can be countered by not slugging them or leaving them alone for very long.
I also think Unbreakable is fine for the reasons you stated, so yeah.
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@Colton147 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/993846#Comment_993846
Ghostface and Wraith most likely can; Wraith if you have the add-ons. Ghostface would be the only one though able to deny Borrowed Time.
That only works if you are playing very specific Killers. So saying BT is fine because you can just stay out of range doesn't really ring true overall.
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@Colton147 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/993681#Comment_993681
Borrowed Time is also fine; it can be avoided by leaving the hooked survivor outside your terror radius (or play a champion that can lack a terror radius, such as Myers, Ghostface, Wraith, and Piggy).
That doesn't work if someone immediately goes for a save seconds after you hook someone.