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@Zenro said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/972264#Comment_972264
I get that then why not replace ruin with something that actually would be reliable haha since ruin wont have esrly game stall anymore. Just run corrupt lol
Because Ruin + Surveillance = Super Discordance
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@underlord99 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/969864#Comment_969864
If it's already regressing when the survivors hop off it. then you cant pop it.
@Zenro said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/969864#Comment_969864
You cant use pop if ruin is up though because you cant kick a regressing gen. Replace pop with Thrilling Tremors maybe for extra time off gens
Right, like I'm going to go a whole game with Ruin up the whole time. :P
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/972008#Comment_972008
#Can’tstopallofus :P
Don't need to. Just need to stop the ones that aren't wearing Traps >:3
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@GrootDude said:
I will probably avoid cleansing ruin so that killers can’t use PGTW.
That gon be interesting with Surveillance.
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I'm gonna try using Ruin and Surveillance together with PGTW as a fallback for when Ruin inevitably goes.
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@TragicSolitude said:
You just want to make sure moris are the next thing gutted, huh?
Just stop playing killer. You want to hurt the game, make survivor queue times unbearable. I play half and half survivor/killer. I didn't ask for a Ruin nerf. I think this is a bad change that only addresses the problems on one side. If you play killer using all the stuff survivors hate, you're just going to get that stuff gutted all the faster. Don't play killer at all, and maybe the devs will realize killers aren't having fun.
To be fair, it wouldn't be a bad thing if Moris got gutted.
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@DBDfan12 said:
without a doubt the killer community is extremely toxic and bullying towards devs. there are 2 sides to this game and i don't see survivors bullying devs like this . its disgusting. devs should not even pay attention to these kind of players
You must not have been around when Survivors review bombed the game. It's okay; neither was I.
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My problem is that this same logic that went into increasing the stun time for DS to account for Endurance, and then when Endurance stopped affecting DS, they never changed back the stun time.
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@Peanits said:
I'd hesitate to call the Doctor and Lery's updates nerfs, especially given you haven't had a chance to play them first. I would say give it a try once the PTB is live. That's the point of a PTB, after all.
Sigmund Freud could not help but notice that you did not mention Ruin alongside Doc and Lery's as "not a nerf." ;)
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@Seanzu said:
Good! I look forward to playing good killers that don't run a Noed/Ruin/Pop combo 👌🏻
I plan on going Surveillance/Ruin/Pop to see if Ruin turns Surveillance into a stronger Discordance.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/969669#Comment_969669
As with just about any other perk, the idea is that you get a notification when you're affected by it. It helps newer people learn the game (they can figure out why that happened), but experienced players wouldn't need it. You would know once the generator sparks. It's purely a QOL thing for new players.
Whether or not it it should be a hex perk, though, that is something that's best left to PTB testing. I do think it's pretty strong in the right hands, so I'd be hesitant to remove the hex condition.
What is your response to the argument that it doesn't matter that the new Ruin is better late game when it is not reliable for a Hex totem to remain standing for that long?
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I'd say if someone is on the hook far away, everyone else is by a gate, and you don't know for sure if the Killer has NOED, it's probably safer to heal up, open the gate, and bail.
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@KingOfGhost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/968184#Comment_968184
With the range, shock have you have to be close in order to use it that's mean in the 2 sec you have you can hit them. Only if you use the best addons for range and try to shock them from as far you can and only then you could hit them after a shock. This seen to me as nerf because you gain nothing but you lose your track ability.
Shock Therapy is also getting a slight range buff as well. So you are both moving faster when lining up the shot and have a bit of extra range when firing.
Also, what you are saying makes no sense. Why would you want to shock them from as far away as possible if you only have two seconds to M1 them before they can vault/drop a pallet again?
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@csandman1977 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/968243#Comment_968243
Yeah I just want piggy useful but you won't let me have my fantasies!
Dat because the changes you propose are way too easily abusable and the revisions you propose destroy the purpose of your initial suggestions.
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@csandman1977 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/968226#Comment_968226
Other survivors can remove headgear?
Make the box spawn random instead of farthest.
Traps put survivors in dying state with reduced bleed out timer?
This would make the Traps trash, no? They essentially become worse versions of Legion's power.
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@shadowdrives said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/965344#Comment_965344
Why do you think this is a nerf?
They're saying they're going to find a way to give Doc a nerf when he hits PTB and then again when the changes go live.
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@csandman1977 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/968205#Comment_968205
What stops freddy from blocking alarm clocks? They dont know where the box is for the person going to use it. Also if they are body blocking then more then likely they are in a chase and timer isnt working anyway.
Maybe make more than 1 box active?
1) Survivors have other ways to wake up besides the Alarm Clock.
2) Survivors don't DIE if they don't reach the alarm clock in 45 seconds.
3) Not true regarding chases. It is very simple to stand in front of a box and just look down so you don't trigger a chase.
Making more than one box active would make the Traps worthless as a stall tactic.
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@KingOfGhost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/965312#Comment_965312
How is this a buff to the doc ?
Removing Treatment Mode means Doc doesn't have to move 110% to use Shock Therapy and can more quickly attack someone after stopping them from vaulting or dropping a pallet with a shock.
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@WRussoW said:
So you all just gave up on the idea because you think the community sucks? And you don't even want to try to implement something that would encourage people to be better? Some world we live in.
You know, there will still be a difference in reputation between players who play "inappropriately" and players who act toxic. It's hard to tell how big will it be but, I think, it'll still be enough to separate players. It would just be important to motivate people to like each other rather than dislike to keep the difference.
You all just say "well, people will just dislike and that's it". C'mon...
You underestimate the potential for toxicity that people are capable of.
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@tortrader said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/967967#Comment_967967
What are you talking about? Removing the survivors' ability to see the Jigsaw boxes would be a severe buff, not a nerf. I don't understand most of the thinking in this place.
I'm not necessarily saying I agree with it, but I see the logic. If you make RSN2 base kit, competent Survivors could have little incentive to look for the boxes while their Traps are inactive. So they might decide they are better off just popping a gen so they can see the box auras and waste less time searching the boxes. If this happens, it means that any stall benefit the Pig gets from the RBTs is delayed until after a gen has already been repaired.
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I love playing Pig, but I think she is pretty weak. Not "weakest in the game now and forever" or "beyond saving," but she could really use some love IMO. Make the traps more consistent at stalling, make the crouch just a tiny bit less molasses-speed, make the ambush attack a bit less telegraphed, revert the EGC nerf and just pause the EGC timer while people have Traps on., and for the love of god give her add-ons some revisions because far too many of them suck IMO.
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@DwightOP said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966220#Comment_966220
Oh come on, don't be foolish. When all gens popped and all 4 alive it's basically over. The only time you can MAYBE pull out more than 1k is with bloodwarden, but smart survivors can and will play around this. Endgame is just a fight for 1 kill. You are not entitled to get 4k when you failed the entire rest of the match.
That's how dbd is since release. And it will stay like that till the devs introduce and objective between the last gen and opening the gates.
More often than not you will lose at that point, but it's still possible to pull a rabbit out of your hat, even if it relies on the Survivors going full potato. The game certainly is not over at that point. If it was, the game would just straight-up end right there instead of making the Survivors still go through the same song and dance with the Exit Gates.
And I never ever said nor implied that anyone was entitled to a 4k at any point.
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There are way too many sore losers for this to be a remotely good idea.
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@MegMain98 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966220#Comment_966220
What are the odds though? If you have four competent survivors at the end of the game you probably already lost.
If they are all on death hook that’s the worst case scenario because you can’t feed on their altruism. You basically have to be running NOED and have a crutch Blood Warden because no way you’re killing anymore than one or MAYBE two survivors without NOED at the end of the game if they are all competent.
In my own view, if any survivor escapes through the exit gate I lose.
I've turned a 0k game into 4k after all the gens were finished numerous times before without NOED (which I don't run) and without Bloodwarden (which I also don't run). Even if it is due to incompetency, it shows that the game is not over until the last Survivor is either free or dead.
In my view, a loss is if 3 or more Survivors escape.
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@Jejune said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966416#Comment_966416
You have to agree upon something regardless... Whether its punishment for tunneling or changes to DS.
Okay. I agree with changes to DS but not making tunneling a bannable offense.
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Agreed. There's nothing fun or immersive or skillful or anything about just mindlessly mashing a button for up to a minute to not die. This is just a bad mechanic that needs to go IMO.
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I'm not sure fetish content is allowed on these forums. :P
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NOED should also make it so a Survivor is put into the Dying State whenever a totem is cleansed. If it's a Hex Totem, then that Survivor instantly explodes and dies.
Also, make NOED no longer a Hex perk. ;)
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Lol, I still a remember a certain streamer for a bit of a while using Ohnrelentin. Ohnrelentin. Ohnrelentin. ;)
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@UncannyLuck said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/965561#Comment_965561
Err how's that work out if the killer immediately goes for you and downs you, then goes after someone else? You were still tunnelled and are unable to play the game until someone comes and heals you (barring running No Mither or Unbreakable) which isn't too different from being unable to play the game due to being hooked.
I think that, if we're going to add conditional deactivations, then healed to healthy and/or if someone else is hooked while you're not in a dying state avoids the problem I described above.
If someone heals you in that time, then you got to avoid being hooked and you got to keep your DS for a potential future use, so it still works out for you overall.
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@Jejune said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966304#Comment_966304
I am not saying that I know it. I am saying that what i said has to happen before you can change DS.
I don't really agree with that. Especially not if it's not something that can be agreed upon, or if it's something that can arguably be justified in cases. I think DS can be tweaked a little without causing too much of a rippling effect.
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@Jejune said:
To change DS further you would have to make tunneling bannable offense. Thats what i think...
How do you make tunneling a bannable offense when people can't even agree on what tunneling is?
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@laurelstroodle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966278#Comment_966278
No they didn't but they are being rewarded for doing 5 generators.
Sure, and we gotta make sure that things are fair and balanced for both sides at all points in the game, including once all the generators are finished (especially since the dynamic of the game does change once all the gens are finished).
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@laurelstroodle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966233#Comment_966233
As I mentioned, survivors did 1/2 their objective, is that to hard to understand?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/395/4XRTF57DSSES.png
And do you see those 4 gens that need to be completed? that's what survivors should achieve to sucesfully escape the match and complete their objective (if they manage to do the gens they have 1/2 of their objective already done)
I mean, that means they have not completed their objective yet, no?
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@laurelstroodle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966220#Comment_966220
In the loading screen when the match is loading, it says survivors objective is to repair those 5 gens, so?
Killers should stop whiny, you need to stop gens from getting activated, and if you could not, that's really sad, accept the fact that survivor could DO their objective.
"As a Survivor, your main objective is to escape the map and live another day."
It is literally in the screencap you just posted.
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@laurelstroodle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966215#Comment_966215
The survivors were able to make the goal of repairing the generators, should the killer's goal exceed that?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966222#Comment_966222
Survivors did their OBJECTIVE, which is to repair generators and escape (1/2) so they get rewarded for it, why should killers being upset about survivors being rewarded for completing their objective?
According to the very manual you linked: "As a Survivor, your main objective is to escape the level through one of two metal gates. To be able to escape, Survivors must repair generators. These generators are scattered across the level. To be able to open the gate, a minimum of five generators must be repaired. This in turn activates the gates and Survivors can now open a gate and escape."
Doing generators helps you reach your main objective, but your main objective is to escape. :P
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@laurelstroodle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966209#Comment_966209
The official wiki says:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/155/3QTBRXNA7WUK.png
"Meanwhile, Survivors will be attempting to repair 5 Generators
in order to power the 2 Exit Gates
and make their escape. Killers should do everything in their power to stop them."
And btw survivors should not get punished by doing their objective, If survivors did their objective (repair 5 gens) they should shouldn't be punished.
The wiki is not managed by the devs and is not officially endorsed by the devs. I would not use the specific wording of the wiki to bolster your argument.
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@MegMain98 said:
They’ve completed all five gens and you failed to kill them all before the generators activate. Why should you get upset that they completed their objective when you failed at yours?
It can be overbearing if all four survivors have Adrenaline but at that point you have LOST. Having all four survivors at the end of the game is a L on your point as a killer.
It’s strong but it doesn’t reward survivors for nothing like the old Mettle of Man did.
Old MOM rewarded survivors for getting hit and punished killers for doing the objectives.
Adrenaline rewards survivors for completing all the generators.
"Why should you get upset that they completed their objective when you failed at yours?"
The objective is to escape, though. They have not escaped yet, so they have not finished their objective.
"It can be overbearing if all four survivors have Adrenaline but at that point you have LOST. Having all four survivors at the end of the game is a L on your point as a killer."
No, you haven't. The game isn't over until all Survivors are either safely out of the trial or dead.
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@laurelstroodle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966134#Comment_966134
Blood Warden is another second chance perk and that's all.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/546/RNWF1VAV5ADZ.png
"The killer's main objective is to stop survivors"
Basically from repairing gens, if survivors repaired 5 gens they got their objective done, and the killer failed, should the survivor be punished for killers mistake?
No.
"Killers cannot die, but will fail if the Survivors manage to escape."
Not "if the Survivors manage to finish all the generators."
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/965944#Comment_965944
*kills everyone with Remember Me, Blood Warden, and NOED*
IT'S OK GUYS, I'VE ALREADY FAILED!
*three RBT timers activate*
*Pig immediately opens the Exit Gate*
MY FRIENDS. THE GAME HASN'T ENDED. IN FACT. IT'S ONLY BEGUN.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966141#Comment_966141
Silly or not, those are the only counters, unless I'm missing something.
Winning is not a counter. :P The counter to Adrenaline, as far as I am aware, is to be carrying the Adrenaline Survivor when the last gen pops.
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@Ihatelife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966094#Comment_966094
If adrenaline is gonna get nerfed, then the same goes for NOED. :)
I'm cool with that.
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@Raccoon said:
No one has a problem with the killer losing up to 4 health states and being temporarily slower than survivors in the portion of the game when they're literally on a 25-30s time crunch.
Adrenaline is usually just a "win more" perk for most people. It can, however, be used by coordinated SWF group to erase a chase at endgame/troll by popping the last gen after their pal takes a hit. Much like NOED, the individual plays the game with 3 perks, receiving a huge payoff endgame.
You can counter Adrenaline by preventing all gens from being done (hard for some lower tier killers) or by killing them via any means necessary prior to gen completion. NOED also helps mitigate its impact, but that's assuming it activates. As it has no tell/counter barring activation/death, you could tunnel or camp people out of the game (ie Meg) and they're not even running it.
Adrenaline by itself is not a huge issue, but it is obnoxious to face 4 people using it, particularly if you're using a weak killer vs a co-ordinated group, given its ability to negate a chase, heal 4 health states, and provide faster travel to the exit gates.
If you find yourself losing due to this perk a lot, you may want to consider killers/add-ons/perks/offerings that help you win chases/down/insta-down/kill people faster to reduce the amount of potential uses, as well as Ruin/Pop to slow gens down a d prevent/delay its activation.
Good Luck :3
"You can counter Adrenaline by preventing all gens from being done (hard for some lower tier killers) or by killing them via any means necessary prior to gen completion"
That basically says that to counter them, you need to beat them, which is a silly notion. It's like saying "Counter Moris by not getting downed" or "Counter Keys by winning before they do too many gens."
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@PalletOrWhat said:
There's one thing about DS that I've read a few times now. DS should not work when the killer hooks another survivor. But why? Personally I think DS is a very powerful perk but not OP or something. Imo it is in a good spot. The problem I see with the "hook another survivor to deactive DS" is:
A killer could basically (semi-)camp a survivor. If another survivor tries to help and unhooks him the killer might be able to bring them both down. Hook the fresh survivor to get rid of the DS, then smack the poor first guy back on the hook. Even if BT is involved the unhook would not be always "safe". Even useless against Freddy for example.
Another example: Let's say you put someone on the hook and see a survivor in the distance (thanks to BBQ or another perk). You down the other survivor while the first survivor gets unhooked. Now you hook the sec survivor and see the first guy again. You could even be really dirty and intentionally wait for someone to unhook the first guy so you can hook the second guy and go right back to the first one. You could basically just walk up to him and hook him again. He wouldn't be able to do #########.
I also don't remember the Devs saying that DS is anti-tunnel ONLY. I love this perk. No... not because I'm a bad killer or an entitled survivor main. I love it because it has an amazing effect on the game (at least imo). I could explain why I like this perk but this thread is already long enough lol.
I am playing both sides equally (more or less) on high ranks btw.
"A killer could basically (semi-)camp a survivor. If another survivor tries to help and unhooks him the killer might be able to bring them both down. Hook the fresh survivor to get rid of the DS, then smack the poor first guy back on the hook. Even if BT is involved the unhook would not be always "safe". Even useless against Freddy for example."
Can't the fresh Survivor heal up and get back up with someone's help while the DS Survivor is being chased? If the DS Survivor isn't able to make it far from the Killer after someone else took a hit for them (this is assuming they took a hit already before they could make the unhook) so teammates can get the fresh Survivor back on their feet), I'd say that's more likely on them for not being able to keep the Killer busy. The only exception to this I can really see is Leatherface chainsawing both people on the spot, but then that's just on the unhooker for being a dumdum.
"Let's say you put someone on the hook and see a survivor in the distance (thanks to BBQ or another perk). You down the other survivor while the first survivor gets unhooked. Now you hook the sec survivor and see the first guy again. You could even be really dirty and intentionally wait for someone to unhook the first guy so you can hook the second guy and go right back to the first one. You could basically just walk up to him and hook him again. He wouldn't be able to do [BAD WORD]."
At that point, the Killer is now occupied hooking someone else while the unhooked Survivor can now be healed back to full probably pretty easily. Sure DS won't save you in this instance, but you have now safeguarded yourself from being instantly downed again. That to me seems reasonable.
Currently, I am totally fine with the following changes being made to DS:
1) DS deactivates when the Killer hooks someone else.
2) The DS person has a small grace period of a few seconds where hooking someone else won't deactivate DS.
3) DS timer is paused while DS user is in the Dying State to make it so that the Killer can't just slug someone to wait out the timer.
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I think I prefer Adrenaline as a reward than as a second chance, as you say. I think making the heal on Adrenaline gradual would help with that (the fact that you get a speed boost definitely helps ensure you get that speed boost). At the very least, it would prevent those really crappy instances of "I downed someone, but the last gen popped during my successful attack cooldown and negated a chunk of my chase." I don't think doing the thing the team is supposed to do anyways but with one less perk is a balanced condition for that kind of pay-off, even if said pay-off doesn't happen too often. Also, get rid of the wake up part. It's dumb. It always has been dumb.
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@Galklife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/965211#Comment_965211
im too lazy to find from which dev i heard that but im pretty confident in that
The devs have said more than once that the RBT randomly selects a box to be the correct one once it's put on a Survivor.
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This is a very intriguing idea, I have to admit.
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@Galklife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/965181#Comment_965181
key is placed in box since game starts, so only RNG aspect is to which box surv will run, so RNG is in survivor not in boxes
and lets be honest changing that might be 20 lines of code but changing anything in this spaghetti code will end up badly
"key is placed in box since game starts"
? But...it is not placed in box since game start? It is placed in box since Trap is put on.
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This is probably a good time to inquire as to why that buff to the DS stun time to account for Enduring was never reverted when Enduring was changed to no longer affect DS.