DBDfan12
DBDfan12
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@Fibijean said:
If the post is too long, skip down to the bottom for the survey link!
Now that the first Rift is officially over, I think it's a good time to start asking how it went for everybody.
Did it achieve its goal of being completable by the average player? How accurate was the 70-80 hour completion target? How many people bought the Rift Pass, and why? How did the completion of Tome challenges factor into all this?
With those questions in mind, and more, I have designed a survey to collect some actual numerical data so we can see what the general community experience of the Rift really was. My goal is to get as many responses as possible, so that we can most accurately determine things like the average number of hours it took to complete, and what proportion of players were able to do so.
The aim is to generate a pool of data which is accessible to the DBD community, so that all of us have something tangible we can draw on when giving feedback and drawing conclusions about the Rift and the overall player experience.
I will leave the survey open for a week, after which I will be collecting the responses and sharing the data here on the forum. I do have plans to share the results with the developers if there are enough responses to generate meaningful data, since I imagine it could be helpful information for them to have for the sake of improving player experience in future Rifts, however the survey itself is not officially created or endorsed by BHVR.
The survey is multiple choice and completely anonymous, and should take you less than 5 minutes to complete. I would really appreciate it if anyone who is willing would take a few minutes to contribute by answering some questions about their experience with the Rift. The more responses we get, the more accurate the data will ultimately be.
Thank you very much in advance to all respondents! 😊
If you have any questions, comments or feedback, please feel free to leave them below and I'll respond as best I can.
Here is the survey link: https://www.survle.com/s/5df8d4afc2e6c
EDIT: Some respondents seem to be misreading the questions, particularly the question about how many tiers the player had already unlocked when the Rift began. Please read the questions carefully before answering! If you think you may have made a mistake in one of your answers, feel free to go back and retake the survey. Your second response will overwrite the first.
i hated it.
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@YaBoiFreddy said:
Hi I'm a Freddy main I get Alot of h8 in my messages on ps4 by survivors trying to tell me howto play and mad cause they died n I apparently tunnel to much but I mean fresh of a hook and wounded wouldn't u go for the weakest first?? (or that 1 guy constantly looping n flashing u wouldn't u make sure they stay dead??
i'm a survivor and ive never understood toxic survivors. its so unnecessary and as soon as they get caught they DC lol . just weak people in real life.
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@Coder said:
Otz is a great killer, but I've read people saying "oh, well, but how does Otz win without ruin then?". He also struggles without ruin, A LOT. This is the kind of game all killers will be facing from now on, since you can't tunnel (DS) to do your objectives faster and Adrenaline will still be a frustrating thing for killers.
Also, you can't expect every killer to be like Otz, that's the problem with DBD, for survivor you have to be able to hold M1, but as killer you have to be a Pro, 5k+ hours into the game, know all mind games, know all details of your killer, or else f*ck off and go play civilization, cuz you're bad.
I've seen him struggling a lot unless he faces potatoes, I've also seen him panicking in most trapper games "OMG... this is bad, this is bad..." until he gets a little lucky and snowballs, because you can do that with trapper, but not with other killers like pig, doc or clown...
Not having an early game mechanic with all pallets up in maps where loops are super safe (like McMillan or Autohaven) and 3 guys working on gens while you're chasing the first one gives survivors an insane head start.
thats cause hes a garbage player
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@Scal3r said:
This game is undoubtedly killer sided and this video can prove it.
it always has been
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slug build, LOL
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@[Deleted User] said:
This wasn't my experience as a new player at all.
Instead of being afraid and running around like an idiot, I wanted to actually get good at the game and improve. So I learned to deal with ruin, like a good boy, looked at videos to learn, and actively seeked out the killer for chases to gain experience, and searched for Ruin to learn of totem spawn locations.
You know, regular things you normally do to get good at a game.
Honestly, I don't mean any ill will, but this post comes off as very entitled. Nobody is saying new players aren't important, but it's ridiculous to say veterans aren't important either. Instead of nerfing Ruin, the devs should have fixed the problems on why Ruin was so needed and ran in the first place, and then adjusted the perk accordingly. That's how balance and fixing issues with something works. You fix the problem, so you can cure the symptom of the problem. It's simple.
Nobody liked being forced to run Ruin, but they obviously didn't like their generators being completed in 3~4 minutes with little chance to do anything about it more. And I can perfectly assure you this: people are going to hate being constantly slugged, mori'd and dealing with NOED and having to cleanse NOED every game a hell of a lot more than just learning to play the game and put up with Ruin, because without it, killers will have no time at all to "play nice" anymore to win due to a lack of a solution to survivor early game pressure and 3 generators popping by the time they hook the first survivor.
killer main spotted
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@Aztreonam78 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/979874#Comment_979874
It doesn't matter bcs if there are not enough killer players - the game will eventually die bcs of stupidly long matchmaking as Survivors and stressfulness as Killers.
nah people will still play killer
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@SpyMature said:
It makes killers with high map pressure (Billy, Nurse, Spirit) even more powerfull, while killers with no map pressure tools are left to suffer even more. Which means we're going to see even less variety in killers cause killers with no map pressure just lost their clutch that made playing them somewhat bearable
You cant chase someone off a gen when it takes 40 seconds just to walk to the other side of the map
nah its for the best
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@FearlessHunter said:
Isn’t this your 4th post now about how killers are wrong and the devs are always right?
as oppose to 2 million posts about how killers are right and devs are wrong?
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@DeanIcity said:
I would love to give feedback on the current change, where do I go about doing that?
To be clear. I hate the old ruin. I am all for changing things. I am not good with changed ruin, nor the lack of change in other aspects of the game to counter balance this change. I think a lot of people have a lot of valid opinions and suggestions, It would be nice to be heard on these things.
...or, are you guys not willing to listen to the community on this issue?
cause its a conspiracy and you are at the centre of it. its all about you
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@HexMoriMeMommy said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/039/ATS1TPTBX1QD.jpg
Alright kid, let me explain a concept called trickle down balance.
Red ranks are supposedly the best of the best right?
The ones who know the game and have spend a lot of time and effort to get where they were.
So what can we infer from that?
HMMMMMMMM
Probably that they know the game a lot ######### better than a rank 20, novel idea I know.
So, if something is balanced for the highest players then it should be balanced for everyone else.
Pretty simple concept.
And before you fall on "Well ruin makes it hard for me at rank 20."
Well yes, it's a strong perk at high ranks, but hmm, if only there was something you could do about that, if only there was some phrase that survivors tell killer mains all the time.
dumb
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@FriendlyGuerl said:
That's true sadly.
^ thinks the game IS all about him
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@HexMoriMeMommy said:
2/10 nice b8
what bait? name one thing i said that isn't factual
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@CLAUDETTEINABUSH said:
A message for mostly the devs; good luck.
This is the first 24 hours that you announced that ruin is getting nerfed,and the community is in chaos.
I can see devs and mods trying to calm the spirits down,but it doest seem to be working.
And everything you just saw and heard from the community,both in forms of forums and videos is just the tip of the iceberg.
You are going to have a rough week,so I just say good luck.
I know you knew that this would happen,and I know how much you think the new ruin is awesome and balanced but most of the community is off to war.
LOL people are crying .
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@JackaloMoss said:
Stop saying ruin has been nerfed. It hasn't.
It has just been completely deleted, and a new perk has been added with the same name that will never be used.
you're right it hasn't been nerfed. its been buffed
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@FichteHiro said:
This one time, you need to hear the community out, or else you'll start destroying the game.
Hiding the ranks of other players on the Tally Screen does not fix the broken matchmaking. It might be an even more serious problem than the changes to Ruin. Now that Ruin will get changed, queue times at red ranks will become increasingly longer, causing the matchmaking to perform even worse. I assume you knew this was gonna happen, because it sounds odd that you made both changes on the same patch out of coincidence.
Please hear what this game's veterans have to say, they really know a lot about this game and have balancing in their hearts. You have already ignored the community last time with the Nurse changes, if you do it this time around, you'll end up destroying the game, and us, fans and players of this game, are trying to save Dead by Daylight.
LOL
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@Thanatos_x said:
It'll be fun, all the survivor mains will have a much more fun time playing against this killer when they're even worse! Let's even add a longer cooldown on shock therapy so that it's even less viable at loops! Right then.
Thank you devs, very cool. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how my main does from now on or if rank 20 survivor main complaints actually made him lower tier than he already was. Guess Ruin will be a must have on Doc from now on... Oh wait
they did .
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@Thanatos_x said:
I mean you could just not report people for farming because that's just not cool
no this wasnt farming. the survivor watched every killer die on the hook with the killer while teabagging them
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@[Deleted User] said:
If you think it's bad here, then you don't want to look at the Steam forums right now.
just did . also bad
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there is no function to upload video at the end of game
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@Altima9619 said:
It's been a fun and a wild run of this game but DbD has had its time to shine, failed to carry that potential it had forward, and is now in it's decline. Barring the recent changes announced or should I say leaked, yet again, I had already decided in the long run the day before these changes that I would be putting the game down for the long term. A whole list of changes are needed to preserve this game but they aren't coming, the game has too much content to realistically fix anything. Overall I did get 1900 hours of entertainment, take 400-600 off of that that wasn't fun, but still got my fair share of enjoyment out of it. Played both sides in the game.
Originally I had came from Evolve after I left it behind early in its decline. The negative day 1 DLC reception hurt the game and despite that I enjoyed it immensely and remember the times of playing it for 10+ hours in the night, competing against top teams and streamers, playing in tournaments. It lasted about a year for me but despite that short time with it, it's balance problems never compared to what DbD has to deal with.
The biggest problem of DbD is that there is too many big problems to begin with. The Map Design, the Perk Imbalance, the Killers, the Skill Gaps, the Matchmaking, the Connections, the Competitive "scene", the Streamers and the Base Gameplay.
Playing this game since June of 2016, I've experienced everything from:
- Double window shack with no bloodlust and no entity blocker with always fast vaults
- DC infinites where the survivor traps the killer in game refusing to leave and not being able to get downed
- Traps under the feet where your hooked at with a camping trapper and no borrowed time/DS
- Instant flash blinding killers and sabotaging all the hooks the map that would not respawn forcing ultimate slug matches/basement builds from killers
- Machine gun build killers
- Even worse maps with many pallets and multiple windows, or the exact opposite (Shelter Woods)
- Teams abusing all black Claudette cosmetics
- Basement blocking killers
- Lag switchers and DCers
- No timing required flashlight blinds and pallet saves
- Surprisingly missed day 1 Freddy release gameplay but I've watched
- Coordinated SWF Competitive/Rush squads to this day
I've experienced all that bullshit from both sides of the spectrum, did experience burn outs through the years but ultimately I decided a with a new year starting I would be moving on. I would finish the rift I started (Burnt Auric Cells at 69 because I was that dried out to even continue playing) and after achieving that on the 5th, I put it down finally.
Ultimately I would start with the maps as the biggest balance issue, there are 33 maps in the game, and I would say with some doubt, only 3-5 of them are balanced. The Badham maps that were recently reworked aren't even included upon these since all of them suffer from the strong buildings that can waste a killers time for half the match. If the first reworked map is still a mess, just imagine Lery's tomorrow when we see it, especially when Hawkins is barely decent quality. Were not getting reworked maps that would improve the gameplay for both sides and considering when we have map dependent killers like Myers, Nurse, Huntress, Hillbilly, Hag, etc, sometimes the game is just decided right at the start due to RNG and you can't win. Same goes for survivors when your given Shelter Woods with very little coverage of pallets or Azarovs that basically divides the map into a easy 4 gen strat for the killer.
I think my top 3 maps would have to be Coal Tower, The Chapel, and Wrecker's Yard knowing what we have to work with in this game. Good maps need to consider all the factors of the game and not play towards one specific advantage or another. They need to be a decent size, not too large, but not so small you can always hear a terror radius 24/7. They need to work with all types of killers from stealth, to mobility, to range, to traps. The maps need fair pallets for survivors to use but not to abuse the killers in endless chases. There should be good hiding spots, line of sight breakers, mindgameable spots for both sides. We haven't got much of any of this in the reworks or new maps, and if we did, it wasn't enough as a whole to make the maps fair. Poor huntress is pretty much hoping for RNG to give you a older map. 33 maps and were getting 2 reworks a year and another map to add to the pile, this isn't going to happen folks with map balance at this pace.
Killers is the next balance issue. It's currently more of ongoing battle between being too hard for newer players to face where they get slaughtered easily or struggle against some of the more annoyingly killer powers, to high rank gameplay forcing you to play basically Billy/Nurse/Spirit every game. 2 of those killers have received nerfs. Personally I'm not going to list out all the killers and the problems with them, I'm just going to say there are 18 killers in this game, I can only use about 6 (Billy/Freddy/Oni/Nurse/Plague of them for higher skilled matches, and Spirit only if I'm going against a dedicated team of players all on my level. The rest of the roster is for weaker players or meme builds that ultimately get little accomplished. It's been said a perfect balance is 2 kills/2 escapes but as killer you let that happen in purple/red ranks, you aren't moving up. A killer can only be considering winning if he gets 3 kills and multiple hooks on all the survivors, and the game is constantly working against you on all fronts to prevent that. Killers have to deal with more worse maps than survivors, they have less perk pool viability and combos to use, often needing to run ruin for those teams that know how to split pressure. RNG half the time is working against them unless your Spirit. Connection issues screwing up hits, matchmaking forcing you into games above or below your skill level. It just doesn't stop and now were at a crossroads where the average matchmaking time in most regions is 5 minutes+ for survivors and worse for those who SWF.
Skill gaps and matchmaking I'm going to talk about together since its hard to separate the two. DbD has always had the problem of matchmaking. Now the wait times weren't always bad, it jumped around a lot to short killer que times and long survivor times back in the day to long killer que times and short survivor times. That was due to the excitement a new killer being released brought to the game. But now today, that doesn't matter, there wasn't a line of players waiting to play Oni, survivor times were still very long in most regions. My region was the same (Midwestern America). I have always hovered in the 1-10 range, or now the 1-5 range since I steadily played nights after I get off work. Matchmaking for me at least has been all over the place, I would get streaks of teams try harding when I was trying for trapper rift challenges in the red ranks, but as soon as I switched to Spirit I dominated uncoordinated solo teams and baby survivors being matched to me from the green ranks. There is never any consistency to what you will be facing, and its only hard to tell when we can't see ranks in lobbies and pretty soon can't see them after the game. As a whole with what most people are saying tonight, I do believe the devs are attempting to bury the problem and don't have a solution. I don't blame them, when your games a constant cycle of new players coming in and older players leaving you don't experience population growth to keep matchmaking stable, DBD has been stagnating around 16-25k players online average, though the new year has seen it rise up to 40,000 at peak according to steam charts. This still hasn't helped with the wait times however to what I'm assuming is nobody playing killer. The skill gap is to significant most players don't want to get dominated by a team that will coordinate and outplay them and have all the advantages of bad map design, multiple perks to counter the killer, and simply knowing how to pressure gens. Those who try play to lose or they play Spirit. Naturally when I run with a SWF team of good people I add on my friends list, we dominate every game by split pushing gens through ruin, and just knowing how to loop. Only a high tier killer like I've mentioned previously can destroy a team I put together. Even with randoms in discord unless they are completely new.
Overall when it comes to skill gap the game is balanced towards the new players 100%. It starts with the fact we have nobody that knows how to play a high level being involved in the development process. The devs don't play or know how to play their own game the ways experienced players and streamers do. Watching McCote in the past play at a Korean event shows he never touches the game from a personal perspective when he got destroyed as hag by a SWF team. McClean streams and I've never seen him hit the High purple or even red ranks. And naturally he did deny the depip squad experiment done in the past as a non-issue when it was proven a team with comms or no comms can win 95% of their games easily with 0-1 deaths in by genrushing only. I don't blame the devs for their lack of play, they are busy working, have lives, and probably want some time away from their "job" anyway. But there is no skilled gameplay testers, the Fog Whispers don't contribute much of anything anymore since they aren't listened to and it now seems its just a yes man job to praise BHVR, since speaking out against them or criticizing has led to removal of some of the streamers from the program.
And lastly we have the base gameplay. It has always stayed the same for the game's lifespan. Survivors do 5 gens to get out after opening the gates, killers hook survivors 3 times or until they die. Nothing's really changed that much, we had entity blockers added to stop infinites, bloodlust, and minor gen regression. The EGC was added to fix toxic survivors refusing to leave and end hatch stand offs. Perks have been all over the place, every time we get new ones, 0-2 of them end up actually mattering when it comes to gameplay. We have a total of 74 survivor perks and 66 killer perks, but usually only between 6-12 on each side are being mostly used, with other players forcing them self to use less viable perks for the memes or just being forced to run Ruin or other slowdown perks because it's a requirement against any team that can do gens. I've always felt that the perk system just needs a massive overhaul, we delete garbage perks, we merge certain perks with other perks like for say Calm Spirit and Iron Will, or Agitation and Mad Grit. Another amazing idea of mine was to implement more regression penalties for gens that all killers would get to use. Naturally a gen should have always regressed much faster after being kicked than they do now with a additional 3-5% penalty New killers/survivors each would come with 1 Unique Perk instead of 3. Logically this happening is not likely just like fixing the maps, so we as a community will just wait over a slow, long period of time as small adjustments and the occasional rework is put in place.
Last but not least, the community is the last problem with this game. The toxicity, the variety of opinions all over the place, the lack of knowledge or the willing to learn, the streamers, and the general entitlement. As a game we can never have built in voice comms for solo players just by the fact what people will do with or use it for. A basic feature in other games like Counter Strike, Apex, even Deathgarden had it though it was disabled by default. Second most players aren't willing to learn or care to, this comes with the casual player mentality that also tries to be competitive. They don't want to put the in the hours but still expect the game to be easy for them and cry when they fail. It's a developed mentality that seems to never go away in most players till they hit a milestone of playing the game enough or becoming actually good. But even the good players like to bully as if we didn't forget back in the day people would hide all game or run the unblockable infinites. Lastly streamers can and have encouraged toxic behaviors in their community, anyone remember the Bahroo christmas where he showed off the glitch to run hybrid killers, T1 Michael with a chainsaw anyone? Not all streamers are toxic though but they contribute to the longevity of the game in a way that continues the cycle of new players coming in and older players leaving. Most of your big streamers don't really enjoy DbD anymore but continue to play, they turned it into a career basically. They continue playing this game, behaving as a source of free marketing and social media that drives players to want to play Dead by Daylight, every casual player gets excited at the thought of trying to be the next Scott, or trashing on killers like Pug. Personally I don't see DbD dying until the twitch community is at the point of letting it go which wont happen until a similar game comes around that actually succeeds in drawing them to it and bringing their followers with them. We just need to stop being toxic and learning to see both sides (killer and survivor) from a balanced point of view.
Dead by Daylight isn't dying this year, or next year. This game will continue on, the meta will update, the matchmaking times will get a little bit worse, and the DLC content will be pumped out. For all those leaving or threatening to but not really, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter I write this or say I'm even leaving, there will be a new player excited to play with all the cool horror characters from famous franchises, there will be a new player hoping to become a big streamer and not have to work a day in their lives, there will be a new player just excited to try be as good as their favorite streamer, and there will always be a flow of players joining and leaving, but never will the game grow to heights you can expect. And for those of holding out for the game to be balanced, just stop, there is a lot of work to be put into it and unless the devs announce they are stopping DLC and going full throttle in some Operation Health fiasco to fix the game, it isn't happening. Don't hold out forever, move on or accept what Dead by Daylight is.
My general wish is for Dead By Daylight 2, hoping a fresh start will allow the devs that developed this game that I played for nearly 4 years and enjoyed to address all the problems, have a stronger foundation built on for the coding, and hopefully things like doors!!! I will be looking for in the near future for the next Evolve/L4D2/DBD, but for now probably going to take my FPS skills out of the trash can and maybe start the streaming in the future with my new setup. Good luck for those in the future, weather these changes with the new ruin, doctor, and hiding ranks go through or not, I already made up my mind weeks ago to put DbD down. I just wanted to get my thoughts out. I never was really involved with the community on reddit, discord, or here, but always had ideas and followed the game near religiously.
I wish I had participated in the community in more but I always struggled in writing out anything really on forums and if I did start, I would stop halfway, then never come back to it, hence why I had to this write out all in one sitting since I would probably stop caring by time I woke up the next morning before work. I'll edit it later if I notice this post looks horrible or there is a lot of grammar errors.
after reading this post man. i think its good you take some time off. go outside and have fun.
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@Altima9619 said:
It's been a fun and a wild run of this game but DbD has had its time to shine, failed to carry that potential it had forward, and is now in it's decline. Barring the recent changes announced or should I say leaked, yet again, I had already decided in the long run the day before these changes that I would be putting the game down for the long term. A whole list of changes are needed to preserve this game but they aren't coming, the game has too much content to realistically fix anything. Overall I did get 1900 hours of entertainment, take 400-600 off of that that wasn't fun, but still got my fair share of enjoyment out of it. Played both sides in the game.
Originally I had came from Evolve after I left it behind early in its decline. The negative day 1 DLC reception hurt the game and despite that I enjoyed it immensely and remember the times of playing it for 10+ hours in the night, competing against top teams and streamers, playing in tournaments. It lasted about a year for me but despite that short time with it, it's balance problems never compared to what DbD has to deal with.
The biggest problem of DbD is that there is too many big problems to begin with. The Map Design, the Perk Imbalance, the Killers, the Skill Gaps, the Matchmaking, the Connections, the Competitive "scene", the Streamers and the Base Gameplay.
Playing this game since June of 2016, I've experienced everything from:
- Double window shack with no bloodlust and no entity blocker with always fast vaults
- DC infinites where the survivor traps the killer in game refusing to leave and not being able to get downed
- Traps under the feet where your hooked at with a camping trapper and no borrowed time/DS
- Instant flash blinding killers and sabotaging all the hooks the map that would not respawn forcing ultimate slug matches/basement builds from killers
- Machine gun build killers
- Even worse maps with many pallets and multiple windows, or the exact opposite (Shelter Woods)
- Teams abusing all black Claudette cosmetics
- Basement blocking killers
- Lag switchers and DCers
- No timing required flashlight blinds and pallet saves
- Surprisingly missed day 1 Freddy release gameplay but I've watched
- Coordinated SWF Competitive/Rush squads to this day
I've experienced all that bullshit from both sides of the spectrum, did experience burn outs through the years but ultimately I decided a with a new year starting I would be moving on. I would finish the rift I started (Burnt Auric Cells at 69 because I was that dried out to even continue playing) and after achieving that on the 5th, I put it down finally.
Ultimately I would start with the maps as the biggest balance issue, there are 33 maps in the game, and I would say with some doubt, only 3-5 of them are balanced. The Badham maps that were recently reworked aren't even included upon these since all of them suffer from the strong buildings that can waste a killers time for half the match. If the first reworked map is still a mess, just imagine Lery's tomorrow when we see it, especially when Hawkins is barely decent quality. Were not getting reworked maps that would improve the gameplay for both sides and considering when we have map dependent killers like Myers, Nurse, Huntress, Hillbilly, Hag, etc, sometimes the game is just decided right at the start due to RNG and you can't win. Same goes for survivors when your given Shelter Woods with very little coverage of pallets or Azarovs that basically divides the map into a easy 4 gen strat for the killer.
I think my top 3 maps would have to be Coal Tower, The Chapel, and Wrecker's Yard knowing what we have to work with in this game. Good maps need to consider all the factors of the game and not play towards one specific advantage or another. They need to be a decent size, not too large, but not so small you can always hear a terror radius 24/7. They need to work with all types of killers from stealth, to mobility, to range, to traps. The maps need fair pallets for survivors to use but not to abuse the killers in endless chases. There should be good hiding spots, line of sight breakers, mindgameable spots for both sides. We haven't got much of any of this in the reworks or new maps, and if we did, it wasn't enough as a whole to make the maps fair. Poor huntress is pretty much hoping for RNG to give you a older map. 33 maps and were getting 2 reworks a year and another map to add to the pile, this isn't going to happen folks with map balance at this pace.
Killers is the next balance issue. It's currently more of ongoing battle between being too hard for newer players to face where they get slaughtered easily or struggle against some of the more annoyingly killer powers, to high rank gameplay forcing you to play basically Billy/Nurse/Spirit every game. 2 of those killers have received nerfs. Personally I'm not going to list out all the killers and the problems with them, I'm just going to say there are 18 killers in this game, I can only use about 6 (Billy/Freddy/Oni/Nurse/Plague of them for higher skilled matches, and Spirit only if I'm going against a dedicated team of players all on my level. The rest of the roster is for weaker players or meme builds that ultimately get little accomplished. It's been said a perfect balance is 2 kills/2 escapes but as killer you let that happen in purple/red ranks, you aren't moving up. A killer can only be considering winning if he gets 3 kills and multiple hooks on all the survivors, and the game is constantly working against you on all fronts to prevent that. Killers have to deal with more worse maps than survivors, they have less perk pool viability and combos to use, often needing to run ruin for those teams that know how to split pressure. RNG half the time is working against them unless your Spirit. Connection issues screwing up hits, matchmaking forcing you into games above or below your skill level. It just doesn't stop and now were at a crossroads where the average matchmaking time in most regions is 5 minutes+ for survivors and worse for those who SWF.
Skill gaps and matchmaking I'm going to talk about together since its hard to separate the two. DbD has always had the problem of matchmaking. Now the wait times weren't always bad, it jumped around a lot to short killer que times and long survivor times back in the day to long killer que times and short survivor times. That was due to the excitement a new killer being released brought to the game. But now today, that doesn't matter, there wasn't a line of players waiting to play Oni, survivor times were still very long in most regions. My region was the same (Midwestern America). I have always hovered in the 1-10 range, or now the 1-5 range since I steadily played nights after I get off work. Matchmaking for me at least has been all over the place, I would get streaks of teams try harding when I was trying for trapper rift challenges in the red ranks, but as soon as I switched to Spirit I dominated uncoordinated solo teams and baby survivors being matched to me from the green ranks. There is never any consistency to what you will be facing, and its only hard to tell when we can't see ranks in lobbies and pretty soon can't see them after the game. As a whole with what most people are saying tonight, I do believe the devs are attempting to bury the problem and don't have a solution. I don't blame them, when your games a constant cycle of new players coming in and older players leaving you don't experience population growth to keep matchmaking stable, DBD has been stagnating around 16-25k players online average, though the new year has seen it rise up to 40,000 at peak according to steam charts. This still hasn't helped with the wait times however to what I'm assuming is nobody playing killer. The skill gap is to significant most players don't want to get dominated by a team that will coordinate and outplay them and have all the advantages of bad map design, multiple perks to counter the killer, and simply knowing how to pressure gens. Those who try play to lose or they play Spirit. Naturally when I run with a SWF team of good people I add on my friends list, we dominate every game by split pushing gens through ruin, and just knowing how to loop. Only a high tier killer like I've mentioned previously can destroy a team I put together. Even with randoms in discord unless they are completely new.
Overall when it comes to skill gap the game is balanced towards the new players 100%. It starts with the fact we have nobody that knows how to play a high level being involved in the development process. The devs don't play or know how to play their own game the ways experienced players and streamers do. Watching McCote in the past play at a Korean event shows he never touches the game from a personal perspective when he got destroyed as hag by a SWF team. McClean streams and I've never seen him hit the High purple or even red ranks. And naturally he did deny the depip squad experiment done in the past as a non-issue when it was proven a team with comms or no comms can win 95% of their games easily with 0-1 deaths in by genrushing only. I don't blame the devs for their lack of play, they are busy working, have lives, and probably want some time away from their "job" anyway. But there is no skilled gameplay testers, the Fog Whispers don't contribute much of anything anymore since they aren't listened to and it now seems its just a yes man job to praise BHVR, since speaking out against them or criticizing has led to removal of some of the streamers from the program.
And lastly we have the base gameplay. It has always stayed the same for the game's lifespan. Survivors do 5 gens to get out after opening the gates, killers hook survivors 3 times or until they die. Nothing's really changed that much, we had entity blockers added to stop infinites, bloodlust, and minor gen regression. The EGC was added to fix toxic survivors refusing to leave and end hatch stand offs. Perks have been all over the place, every time we get new ones, 0-2 of them end up actually mattering when it comes to gameplay. We have a total of 74 survivor perks and 66 killer perks, but usually only between 6-12 on each side are being mostly used, with other players forcing them self to use less viable perks for the memes or just being forced to run Ruin or other slowdown perks because it's a requirement against any team that can do gens. I've always felt that the perk system just needs a massive overhaul, we delete garbage perks, we merge certain perks with other perks like for say Calm Spirit and Iron Will, or Agitation and Mad Grit. Another amazing idea of mine was to implement more regression penalties for gens that all killers would get to use. Naturally a gen should have always regressed much faster after being kicked than they do now with a additional 3-5% penalty New killers/survivors each would come with 1 Unique Perk instead of 3. Logically this happening is not likely just like fixing the maps, so we as a community will just wait over a slow, long period of time as small adjustments and the occasional rework is put in place.
Last but not least, the community is the last problem with this game. The toxicity, the variety of opinions all over the place, the lack of knowledge or the willing to learn, the streamers, and the general entitlement. As a game we can never have built in voice comms for solo players just by the fact what people will do with or use it for. A basic feature in other games like Counter Strike, Apex, even Deathgarden had it though it was disabled by default. Second most players aren't willing to learn or care to, this comes with the casual player mentality that also tries to be competitive. They don't want to put the in the hours but still expect the game to be easy for them and cry when they fail. It's a developed mentality that seems to never go away in most players till they hit a milestone of playing the game enough or becoming actually good. But even the good players like to bully as if we didn't forget back in the day people would hide all game or run the unblockable infinites. Lastly streamers can and have encouraged toxic behaviors in their community, anyone remember the Bahroo christmas where he showed off the glitch to run hybrid killers, T1 Michael with a chainsaw anyone? Not all streamers are toxic though but they contribute to the longevity of the game in a way that continues the cycle of new players coming in and older players leaving. Most of your big streamers don't really enjoy DbD anymore but continue to play, they turned it into a career basically. They continue playing this game, behaving as a source of free marketing and social media that drives players to want to play Dead by Daylight, every casual player gets excited at the thought of trying to be the next Scott, or trashing on killers like Pug. Personally I don't see DbD dying until the twitch community is at the point of letting it go which wont happen until a similar game comes around that actually succeeds in drawing them to it and bringing their followers with them. We just need to stop being toxic and learning to see both sides (killer and survivor) from a balanced point of view.
Dead by Daylight isn't dying this year, or next year. This game will continue on, the meta will update, the matchmaking times will get a little bit worse, and the DLC content will be pumped out. For all those leaving or threatening to but not really, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter I write this or say I'm even leaving, there will be a new player excited to play with all the cool horror characters from famous franchises, there will be a new player hoping to become a big streamer and not have to work a day in their lives, there will be a new player just excited to try be as good as their favorite streamer, and there will always be a flow of players joining and leaving, but never will the game grow to heights you can expect. And for those of holding out for the game to be balanced, just stop, there is a lot of work to be put into it and unless the devs announce they are stopping DLC and going full throttle in some Operation Health fiasco to fix the game, it isn't happening. Don't hold out forever, move on or accept what Dead by Daylight is.
My general wish is for Dead By Daylight 2, hoping a fresh start will allow the devs that developed this game that I played for nearly 4 years and enjoyed to address all the problems, have a stronger foundation built on for the coding, and hopefully things like doors!!! I will be looking for in the near future for the next Evolve/L4D2/DBD, but for now probably going to take my FPS skills out of the trash can and maybe start the streaming in the future with my new setup. Good luck for those in the future, weather these changes with the new ruin, doctor, and hiding ranks go through or not, I already made up my mind weeks ago to put DbD down. I just wanted to get my thoughts out. I never was really involved with the community on reddit, discord, or here, but always had ideas and followed the game near religiously.
I wish I had participated in the community in more but I always struggled in writing out anything really on forums and if I did start, I would stop halfway, then never come back to it, hence why I had to this write out all in one sitting since I would probably stop caring by time I woke up the next morning before work. I'll edit it later if I notice this post looks horrible or there is a lot of grammar errors.
see you online tomorrow.
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i agree weak survivors use DH.
DS i don't see as very effective so i don't rate it
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@NurseMainBTW said:
... Because honestly I'm feeling kinda isolated right now.
I still remember when I opened a thread asking how ruin was important in killer builds and most of the responses were negative.
So... I suppose I should say "No-ruin users rise!" or stuff like that?
i play 50 /50 so i dont use it. i feel like its cheating
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@ProfoundEnding said:
Absolutely love @ScottJund's opinion on this! I would love to hear everyone's else's.
..
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why should that stop killers from complaining?
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@supersonic853 said:
Retirement was boring anyway *dusts off noed moris slugging and tunneling* If the devs want to say survivors arent having fun we will show them how bad it can get. (In all seriousness though i really dont like the devs choices just like others but like otz said maybe theyll fix gen speed as well if they dont then he condones killers going crazy then).
make sure you have plenty of mountain dew
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@PoisonN said:
You really created today 10 topics saying the same bs about killers. Take a break
theres 1000 posts about ruin . go tell them to take a break
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@Herman_CMH said:
Since last year, there is an improvement in Nightmare BUT...
Legion - Nerf
Nurse - Nerf
Oni - OK, the smooth control during the dash was NOT intended in the test environment
Doctor - Nerf!!!
And even the perk, Ruin, one of the important perk to slow down gen rush.... NERF!!!
I read the NERF topic and the underlying ground for NERF of the Ruin is something like it is NO GOOD to NEW SURVIVORS! Seriously!? Would there be MANY NEW SURVIVORS when the game is 3-year-old? I wouldn't say there is nil but it shouldn't be many, right?
This action is seriously hurting the population of the killers, and discouraging player to play as killer. It would have negative effect to the game, you want the survivor to wait for a game for even longer period of time?
KILLERS!! Please voice your opinion!!!!
DEV!!! Please listen to us this time!!!
rights? you bought a game for $15. you have no rights
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@Outland said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/972356#Comment_972356
But do you play Killer in Red Ranks, because I bet you'd have a different spin on it then.
i have been in red ranks before the resest
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@ryanrobot said:
You're absolutely right. DS to ruin is not a real comparison. Because killers NEED ruin and can't win without it while survivors can win without DS. Also a killer can only have one ruin, but a survivor team can have 4 DS's. If you think killers have no argument, then you don't play killer.
But an even bigger issue is just the survivor bias. Every word of the patch notes was "too unfun for survivors," "not enough risk for killer," they seriously put zero effort into thinking like a killer.
cant win without it? LOL keep practicing
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@Almo said:
We expected outrage when doing a fundamental change to a perk used in such a large percentage of games. However, after playing with the new version, we're much happier with how it functions in the game as part of the whole system.
you did the right thing. i play survivor and killer
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@Kycer said:
I used to be one of these nice killers who always thought that you can have fun as the killer without the need to ruin the survivors’ game with BS (OP) stuff.
Now that Ruin is gone, and the devs and survivors mains clearly don’t give a damn about the killer’s fun (as you can see in the forum), so why should we care about their fun? I will replace Ruin with Noed and bring Moris whenever I feel like it from now on.
I literally can’t afford to be nice to survivors after this ruin nerf.
you were always using them LOL you're just emotional
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@Nonfunctional said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/971424#Comment_971424
I think it's the caffeine of the pre workout that triggers the need to go, but the protein that makes it a questionable time.
ive hurt many gym toilets
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@Nonfunctional said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/971395#Comment_971395
International WPI to be specific
i used to take protein , same problem . always on the can.
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@Nonfunctional said:
So I'm at the gym, taking a real liquidy protein ######### and of course that makes me think of Dead By Daylight and then I see the update, and then the forum with the usual rank 12 survivors praising a killer nerd, killer mains losing their mind and people that play both at high rank trying to be objective mediators.
Here's my thought, we know a rank 12 survivors will never agree with a killer main so let's just withdraw from the forum, take our objectivity and out them in end game reports during the ptb in hopes someone reads then, because I can tell you for a fact no one is going to bother filtering through this vitriol and nonsense for wisdom.
whey protein
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@Divinitye9 said:
Quit being a troll. Thanks.
why is he trolling? the game is killer sided
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@CrummyCookie said:
Balanced landing, insta heals, ds and all the other nerfs helping killers as usual. Not only that but killers have camping, tunneling, noed, and overpowered killers. This game is so killer sided
yep
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@BigTimeGamer said:
STOP COMPLAINING. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOOD FOR THE GAME
evidently neither do they
they know better than you .
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@BigTimeGamer said:
This is different to nerfing a killer
everyone knows the difference between a game with ruin and a game without it
you havent even tried it, LOL
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@TheBean said:
Ruin is getting changed... And you still haven't tried it yet...
BUT THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!
You know... I've gotten angry at this game... at the Devs....
But seriously.... About 90% of the first two pages of the discussion group is all about killers not wanting Ruin changed. Making up everything they can do prevent it from changing.
LUL
Come on!
Let us try it first... You may like it.
try it before complaining about it? you must be new here
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@Rin_is_my_waifu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/970904#Comment_970904
Did I say something about me and I didn't notice it?
Anyway enjoy your survivor gameplay while you can. If they decide keep these changes, I'm gonna have so much fun slugging and moring you :)
LOL. youre not important
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@goat10em said:
Anyone else done this really alarming? Disrespectful sure but really alarming honestly.
Changing ruin so it isn't used so much but every survivor still runs DS. Changing ruin because it's not fun for new players yet my son who got the game for Christmas has already given up because he can't find killer matches because the game has been made so easy to pip that all survivors are high ranks.
Cant you just tell us what your goal is and stop lying to the fans that still support this game after all this time?
😭😭😭
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@Rin_is_my_waifu said:
Looks like you have to wait for a loooong time to find a lobby
you're not important dude
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@SteelDragon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/970033#Comment_970033
a yes a survivor main thinking ruin is not needed for killers or a killer who does not play at red ranks or even purple ranks.
OR BETTER YET
a red rank killer who only slugs and tunnels to make up for not having ruin and calling that "how you should play killer"
No and No
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@DeadByGayDwight said:
Killer main's input: if y'all can't live without Ruin, then you probably need to reconsider how good you are at killer.
yep. i can 4 k nearly ever game and NEVER USE RUIN
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@SteelDragon said:
Killers have already been using ruin BECAUSE of how BADLY this game is balanced around gen speeds and "map pressure". killers NEEDED the time that ruin bought. and with this current version of ruin? it is garbage. now more than likely by the time you hook 1 person, GARUNTEE, whether they are able to hit greats or not. 1 gen will pop when you hook a survivor with a 2nd gen close to popping if not already popped. AND YOU ONLY HAVE GOTTEN 1 HOOK. Q times for survivors in red ranks was already bad. but now? I firmly believe that the amount of red rank killers that will actually keep playing after this change will only be in the double didgets.
if someone asked me "what is THE WORST thing BHVR could do to this game balance wise?" my answer would be to nerf ruin. and BOY did they not just NERF IT, THEY LEGIONED IT
good quit. i never use ruin
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@Sonzaishinai said:
The tracking aspect is better yes
But the double bloodpoints though
I'm pretty sure that if you were to remove the aura reading of BBQ you would still see it a ton
@Hailoh said:
While BBQ is a good perk, honestly, people only use it for the 2x BP. But with that being said, I don't know if it's better or worse than Discordance.
What I DO believe, however, is that Discordance is better than Whispers. It's much more accurate than Whispers, and it makes patrolling generators much easier. Not to mention that it has much more killer/perk synergy than Whispers does.
yep its definitely better than whispers.
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NO NO IT ISNT
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DOC IS AWESOME