ryanrobot
ryanrobot
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- ryanrobot
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@DwarvenTavern said:
Why not make it not a Hex perk? If all the devs are that committed to it (it's not good idea, I'm sorry.) It would be better if it was no longer a hex. The 2% regression as a hex isn't worth it.
In my opinion, keeping the game's history intact is pretty important. Ruin is a Hag teachable. That was the update that first added hex perks and all three of her teachables are hex perks. So in my opinion, to remove the hex part of hex ruin is to disrespect DBD history.
But that being said, new ruin would be a lot better as a non-hex perk. I hope they revert ruin back to normal and then re-add new Ruin as a different perk that's not a hex perk.
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@mylesmylo said:
I still laugh when people say gen rush and mean it 😂 it's the survivors objective, that's like saying killer shouldn't kill.
Gen rushing isn't really referring to the survivor's choice but the way the gens are balanced. The reverse of gen rushing would be if the killer could consistently get 4 hooks in 3 minutes. Do you see how frustrating that would be every game? Survivors aren't choosing to do anything wrong but the game's poorly balanced around gens.
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@snowflake102 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/972667#Comment_972667
I'm sure they won't leave this game. Cause there's no other horror game out there besides last year. But yea sure some will leave. Survivors said these things before like when ds and balance lending got nerfed.
Also Identity V and Friday the 13th. And I think DBD really needs the competition. And yes with how big some maps are and how strong toolboxes are killers will absolutely leave without ruin. It's already been slowly happening for a while.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Yeah the fact they want to hide ranks in lobby is a huge red flag for me, honestly right up until I saw that I never suspected them of anything malicious, just maybe that they were still learning as they worked on the game- but that is an active, 100% malicious move.
They want to try and sweep a problem under the rug, hoping people won't complain. They will offer nonsense excuses if people pressure them about it, prolly say it is to prevent toxicity or some other lie- when I have NEVER been made fun of or harassed for my rank, if anything it's turned toxic survivors nice once they realized there was a rank gap.
I agree. This is something important we need to bring more attention to and really start talking about more. This isn't incompetent, it's downright lying to the community. It's disgusting.
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@BastardKing said:
Nerf Oni when he just came out instead of learning to avoid him.
This also happened to Freddy and so many other killers. They truly care about new players far more than experienced.
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Yes mostly because of the phrasing of the patch notes. They repeatedly said things like "unfun for survivors" and "not enough risk for killers." It especially baffles me that with how unpopular and weak the doctor is, they wouldn't even consider the killer's side when reworking him. They genuinely gave no effort to make it look like the doctor rework was for the killer's benefit. In fact, it was pretty clear that the doctor rework was for the survivor's benefit. How do you rework a weak, unused killer for the survivor's benefit? And they never even bothered asking WHY over 90% of red rank killers use ruin, they just nerfed it with zero care to the aftermath of the actual game itself.
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While this is a great idea, all the information they need is already there. In the reaction videos made by youtubers like Tru3 and Ardetha, in the complaints, and even in common sense. If they just had a better understanding of their own game, they would stop being survivor sided, fix gen speeds, and rework killers with a bit more emphasis on the actual killer player rather than the survivors that go against that killer. I think (and hope) this backlash will be enough that they'll make at least a few changes before the PTB even goes live. They really shouldn't release the PTB in its current state.
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Thank you for clarifying this and it is a good change, but old ruin used to be a band-aid fix for a huge and important problem. When a killer chased one survivor, the other three survivors could complete 3 gens in only a minute and a half. The stress and pressure that created on killers to use that one or maybe two hooks to make a comeback was enormous, and often games would end before killers had a chance to play well and potentially make a comeback.
In addition to new ruin removing that possibility for games to last long enough that killers have a chance. the patch notes truly showed a terrible bias in the devs. Everything you said was about survivors being too frustrated or killers not having enough risk. You even reworked the Doctor, a very unfun, weak, and unpopular killer, and didn't even try to think about the killer perspective. It sounded like you were perfectly fine with how unfun doctor was for killers but still irked by survivor's experience against the doctor. After this rework, most killers will drop doctor and never play him again in a week because he's STILL weak, he's STILL unfun, and he's STILL a bad killer and the survivor experience won't fix that. You don't have to be killer biased but please don't be so survivor biased.
tl;dr please fix gen times and please don't be survivor biased although helping new survivors is fine. Also please buff doctor.
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Even for people who aren't leaving DBD, Last Year is pretty good and you should try it. I also think that as the first real asymmetrical horror, DBD doesn't really have much competition. Making Last Year popular enough and taking enough of the playerbase could scare Behavior into doing a better job.
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@underlord99 said:
it's not necessarily the perk getting nerfed that shows their survivor sided. it's the words they used in the update. just reread it and you'll see. especially the part where they said they changed doctor because he was annoying to play against .
I strongly agree with this. However, it's also important to say that ruin was nerfed because it used to have the extremely important job of slowing the game down long enough that killers could have a few chases and show their skill, making it possible for the killer to win if they're good enough. With how big some maps are and how difficult some loops are, gens can fly before killers get their first kill pretty consistently without ruin. Ruin used to be a band-aid fix for a bigger problem, and now that ruin is no longer available, that bigger problem is even worse. New ruin will do nothing to stop 3 gens in 2 minutes and fight the bigger problem here.
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@Killernewb86 said:
They need to balance this game around rank. Let these changes for yellow ranks and then progressively put ruin at its current state.
Having balance and perk uses change over ranks is a bad idea. It's really confusing to new players who thought ruin did one thing but now it suddenly does something else. Maybe it'll be better than having new ruin at high ranks or old ruin at low, but it's not healthy for the game and there are other, better ways of doing that.
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Well if you read the patch notes carefully, they did have a lot of survivor bias. They repeatedly said things like "it's not fun for survivors" and "isn't risky enough for killers." But I think your point about low vs. high ranks is also very true. I think behavior has both biases, one in favor of low ranks, and one in favor of survivors. And we need to keep fighting until their bias is in favor of high ranks and neutral for survivors and killers.
I agree with you but I think they are still survivor-sided.
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Sadly killers have to fight SO much harder on forums like this to get their voices heard. Even if they listen to us and give us a few buffs, they'll give us twice as many nerfs. They don't need to just listen to us once, they need to understand that their whole plan is currently survivor-sided and they need to start making consistent and long-term changes to hear killers more.
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You're absolutely right. DS to ruin is not a real comparison. Because killers NEED ruin and can't win without it while survivors can win without DS. Also a killer can only have one ruin, but a survivor team can have 4 DS's. If you think killers have no argument, then you don't play killer.
But an even bigger issue is just the survivor bias. Every word of the patch notes was "too unfun for survivors," "not enough risk for killer," they seriously put zero effort into thinking like a killer.
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"Killers have to get better" while survivors have BT, DS, Adren, Unbreakable in a gen-rush meta where getting your first kill is so hard.
Find the troll.
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I'm glad this discussion was made because I think that this is the heart of the issue. Devs care way too much about how survivors feel and not enough about killers. Every change they made and the reasoning behind it is 100% survivor-centered. They reworked doctor not because he was weak and unfun for killer leading to low pick rates and kill rates, but because "he wasn't fun for survivors." They didn't change ruin because they wanted slower gens to be more natural but because "it wasn't fun for survivors."
Behavior has always kind of had their hands full with so many chapters, console ports, dedicated servers, etc. So at some point I always hoped that they'd just slow down, play their own game, and realize just how much they've been neglecting and hurting killers. I don't know if they'll ever do this but I really hope they do eventually because this game is going down a slippery slope to dying with no killers.
I think the best way to respond is by doing basically what they want. If they want survivor to be easy and fun and killer to be the opposite, then just play exclusively survivor. Queue times will be insane and the devs will figure out they need to actually listen to and care about killers. This is a 2-sided game, not a 1-sided game. Killers need to be thought of too.
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@SpaceCoconut said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/968859#Comment_968859
The dev notes specifically say the changes were made to make survivor gameplay more fun.
Killer feelings were not taken into account.
Exactly. They just released a rework for Doctor, a low-tier killer almost nobody plays for how weak he is, to try and fix his problems, and literally didn't have a single word about how it feels to play doctor or how to make him stronger. They genuinely do not care about the killer role. You CANNOT rework or design a killer with only survivors in mind because in order for the killer to actually show up in the game, killer players have to choose to be the killer. If they don't care how it feels for killers to play doctor, nobody will play doctor. They can't balance this game and the killers if they're ONLY listening to the survivor side.
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@MiktheSpik said:
70 percent of red ranks killers dont even use ruin cause survivors usually hit the skill checks anyways. Ranting about ruin being not good enough. Sounds like OP is a hardstuck purple rank that doesnt get why hes not climbing despite running ruin every game. "Im running ruin why am i not being handed free wins?" You know people can just hit the skill checks and not care right? "But i have ruin and im not winning" yeah people are just hitting the skill check. "So let me get this straight, if i run ruin, i dont automatically win?" Correct. "Huh thats weird. Never thought about that" try corrupt intervention, blocking the furthest gens forces survivors to walk to you which on bigger maps, like Ormond, a good swf can literally complete a gen through ruin before you even arrive. Corrupt and whispers man. Really stronk. Forces them to walk to you and then you can catch a hint when you get close. Will literally force a chase within 30 seconds most games. Use a legit strat instead of camping ruin half the game and wondering why you cant climb.
70% of red ranks don't use ruin? Did you read the patch notes? They have official statistics that 80% of red rank killers use ruin. And the reason is because it makes low-tier killers more fun and viable due to the game not ending before they can get a few hooks. With how fast gen speeds are, killers that aren't built around chases like nurse and spirit will consistently have upwards of 3 gens done before they even have a chance to get their first hook, and most killer powers aren't strong enough to carry a game with only 2 gens left and one hook. If the game is already over before a killer has the chance to show off their skill and ability at this game, then it doesn't matter if you're the best killer in DBD, the game is already over. That's not fun at low ranks or high ranks. Ruin is so popular and so powerful because with it the game will last for at least a few chases, allowing a killer to try and show their skill, resulting in a more fair game where either killer or survivor could win depending on who is actually better.
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The entire mid chapter patch notes, they never once mentioned how this patch is supposed to feel for killer in the actual game against survivors, only for the emblems. While reworking a killer that the the players are supposed to choose to play. I don't understand how behavior can be so one-sided to not realize that there exists the other role in Dead by Daylight other than survivors, killer players whose feelings and experiences also matter. It genuinely doesn't even cross their minds. And nerfing the most important perk that killer is truly unfun, tedious, and difficult to play without proves it. How on earth do you expect people to choose to play the new doctor and continue playing him if you put zero thought into how it feels to be the killer playing doctor?