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@Tactless_Ninja said:
Guys, the beartrap cannot be a death sentence. At least not a guaranteed one. What's all this 1st key is always a dud and egc activates the helmet nonsense? There's other ways the beartrap can have staying power.
Maybe make it a constant threat. Survivors spawn in with traps (like they do in the movie) and have to do additional side gens to power the jigsaw boxes. When Amanda slaps on a helmet, it's already powered and ticking down.
Or the helmet has to be deactivated multiple times to actually remove. Meaning all 4 boxes need to be interacted with in full.
Though the greatest buff she can get is "Hello Zepp" kicking in when the survivor has 30 seconds left.
I find it strange that you are against the first key being a dud because of it being a death sentence (it wouldn't be) but then somehow end up being in favor of a bunch of changes that WOULD make the RBT a death sentence.
Making the first box auto-fail would make it so the Trap at least guarantees some amount of stalling. One thing that can hurt the Pig a lot is when someone gets a Trap off at the first box.
Allowing the Traps to activate during the EGC means that a portion of her power doesn't suddenly shut off at a point in the game, like before the Endgame Collapse update. As long as you actually put safeguards in place to make sure it is still reasonable (primarily pausing the EGC timer), it shouldn't be a problem (not to mention, it would avoid those situations that are currently possible where you CAN have someone with an active Reverse Bear Trap during the Endgame Collapse).
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@Huff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1436157#Comment_1436157
No it doesn't matter. It simply doesn't. At least not to BHVR. Otherwise you wouldn't see them changing PH even though camping a cage wasn't an efficient way of playing.
And that whole "You may as well just save yourself the trouble with cheesting the RBT and camp the hook instead." thing is exactly what I mean. You can RBT somebody, crouch and stick near them while they're on hook, and just continuously pester them any time they try to get their trap off. You're not doing anything but bolstering my point by bringing that up. If they are going to continue their trend of removing toxic stuff like easy camping, then Pig definitely needs to come soon.
You misunderstand what I mean. I'm saying there's no real point to cheesing the RBT if you are trying to score cheap kills because you are better off just camping the hook like any other killer. Why wait for the Trap timer to start AND expire when you can just camp and down them the moment they are off the hook?
@Huff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1436642#Comment_1436642
As far as I'm aware, being put in a cage and not rescued at all takes the same time to sacrifice you as if you were put on a hook and the same thing happened. Only difference is as you said, in a cage you don't get BT or DS but he has to walk over to come camp you. Either way, the counterplay is the same. Do gens and get out. As I said, against PH nobody has to come unhook if it's dangerous and he's just camping there. Do gens. On top of that, you have to let yourself get tormented for that to even happen in the first place.
No, they didn't have to hotfix it. No, as Pig you don't risk somebody you hit having BT because you crouch and remove your terror radius, which cancels out the BT. Either way it doesn't matter in the slightest whether they have BT or DS or whatever 2nd chance perks they want, because if their helmet activates at any point and you know where they are, they're absolutely screwed. You don't have to initiate chase with them, you can just be near them and constantly pressure them to the point where their head just pops. It's like a slightly less effective version of the old Legion, where he could kill you just through the bleedout bar and following you facing backwards. There's nothing the survivor can really do to stop the killer from doing it and they're pretty much just on a timer to die. It's not even about the efficiency of it toward "winning" the game, it's just completely boring and pointless to play against.
You talk about PH not giving you a chance to escape, but you don't want to admit that Pig can essentially do the same thing. She still has to eat a DS here and there, sure, but as mentioned before it doesn't matter when she can just constantly patrol around where you are and never let you touch a box until your timer runs out. You even admit it's essentially the same thing as face-camping the hook with any other killer, so why are other killers being discouraged from camping while Pig gets to keep her capabilities?
By your logic, I could just tell you to "suck it up for one game and move on" too. They didn't need to fix the PH issue, because "scummy players will be scummy players" right? It's the same problem. Just because it's on a character you like more/hate less doesn't mean it's any less of a problem.
You even admit it's essentially the same thing as face-camping the hook with any other killer, so why are other killers being discouraged from camping while Pig gets to keep her capabilities?
What is discouraging Wraith from camping the hook? What is discouraging Ghostface from camping the hook? What is discouraging Scratched Mirror Myers from camping the hook? What is discouraging Deathslinger from camping the hook at a distance?
Multiple killers can still currently camp the hook with ease, and I doubt most of them are going to be changed to stop that. So what makes you think they're going to do something about the Pig?
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Between those two, medkit. Self-Care is just too slow. I should try using Inner Strength, though.
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@TheLastGreatStar said:
I’m surprised to see people want the sound removed from her ambush attack as that sounds like a huge nerf to me. The growl she makes is great for mind games and making people vault into you.
The sound makes the attack heavily telegraphed. The reason you mindgame with the ambush is that you have to since they hear it coming a mile away. All it's good for is hoping the Survivor screws up, which is not the hallmark of a good power IMO.
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@Huff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1435708#Comment_1435708
I just said that it's not about the efficiency. It's about the fact that it's got the capability to be used in a toxic as hell way. It needs to be worked on or scrapped. Doesn't matter that it's not efficient. Neither is spending a bunch of time trying to get somebody tormented and then walking across the map and sitting on a cage, but they still changed something like that, even if not all players did that.
Funny thing you mention Bubba and Billy as well. As if they're not getting reworks.
The efficiency does matter because the efficiency of cheesing the timer with the Pig is substantially less so than just camping the hook as Billy/Bubba or running to the cage as Pyramid Head. You may as well just save yourself the trouble with cheesing the RBT and just camp the hook instead. Like, it's just a phenomenally bad strategy.
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Killer main, but I have been trying to improve my Survivor game in recent times.
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@DeadByMittens said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1435576#Comment_1435576
The first one is okay. Second, doesn't make any sense because each trap is LINKED to one box not multiple. Third, why would you want that? Four, okay so you also "rule no.2" as base kit too.
From what I recall, the box that is chosen to open a given Trap is randomly determined when you slap that sucker on. In theory, you can simply make it so the box is chosen after you successfully search any box and will choose between the remaining boxes.
@Huff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1435678#Comment_1435678
And it's also one of the single most oppressive abilities in terms of tunneling. Not that nobody else can do it, like RN Leatherface still can, but they're apparently trying to remove strong hook camping and stuff with the way they're changing Leatherface and Billy to not allow them to rev forever.
Pig, at least after Leatherface gets his infinite rev removed, is going to be the most toxic killer to face just simply due to the fact that she can just shut one person down and tunnel the hell out of them and not let them get their bear trap off. It's already bad enough she can crouch which removes the possibility of Borrowed Time.
I'm not saying it's the most effective strategy but I can't help but groan when I see I'm going against a Pig, because I know more than likely if I go down once I'm done for because Pigs never want to leave me alone when I have a trap on my head. It's not fun to go against, or engaging, and it allows for super scummy play. They nerfed PH's ability to tunnel as effectively in a hotfix so IDK why they can't do something like that for Pig. Anything to make her less annoying to go against.
It's such an inefficient strategy that I can't see why they would go out of their way to rework an entire Killer just for that. At least with Bubba and Billy, the solution is pretty straightforward. Not so with Amanda.
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@Huff said:
Rework her and remove the RBTs in favor of something else.
Not the easiest thing to do in the world, considering that the Reverse Bear Trap is arguably the single most iconic trap in the SAW franchise.
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-Change the way RBTs function during the endgame so that they work similarly to pre-EGC update (though I would still make them not trigger if the Hatch is closed, and I would pause the EGC timer while someone's wearing a Trap)
-Delay the ambush roar to reduce the amount of telegraphing
-First box is auto-fail
-Add-on pass
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@Mew said:
i dont really like the head popping system either
nothing feels less rewarding than an RNG death that wins you the game.
Personally, nothing in Dead By Daylight brings me greater satisfaction than seeing someone die to the Reverse Bear Trap. :P
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@Volfawott said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1434732#Comment_1434732
The box is not being visible until a generator is completed is incredibly bad because it makes survivors who wants to complete a generator instead of forcing them to stall out.
Also if you actually read the post I put down you would see that I want tampered timer to be changed for that exact reason as with RNG it makes it practically impossible to survive if you're unlucky.
Also chunking on ridiculously annoying amount of action speed penalty is not a good way to go either just look at forever Freddy it made the game actively boring and unfun to play.
I feel that survivors should be free to pull risky plays like working on a generator with a reverse bear trap on if they so choose however there should also be a risk at not taking off the trap and to make a risky you have to make the traps actually feel threatening
I feel that survivors should be free to pull risky plays like working on a generator with a reverse bear trap on if they so choose however there should also be a risk at not taking off the trap and to make a risky you have to make the traps actually feel threatening
That definitely makes sense, but currently I feel like the risk of working on a generator instead of going for the boxes is not high enough unless you use very specific add-ons to make the odds of dying to the RBT higher. Currently the fire being lit under trapped Survivors is very small, despite the fact that the penalty is straight-up death.
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@tactic said:
tbh I find it kind of annoying that he almost only plays with the same perks every time he picks Bubba
I wouldn't be surprised if they were nerfed after PTB, but a guy with thousands of hours running the best loadout on Bubba is definitely going to win a lot of matches. I'm also thinking about his "Proving Leatherface is underrated" series when I say this because I don't feel like it proves much if anything, but that's another discussion
I mean, if you have a spike mentality where you want to win, it only makes sense to use the best load-out whenever you can, no?
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@Volfawott said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1434387#Comment_1434387
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1434520#Comment_1434520
I guess it's just me personally but I love the idea of Amanda's letter transforming Amanda from a stall killer to a pure ambush based killer.
Honestly I think it just needs to be tweaked so it reflects that quality even if basically take away from her stall and majorly buff her ambush.
Increased aura reading is one thing
But also increasing the movement speed when you're crouched can be something else.
If you power up the ambush enough it will be more worth the downside of losing tribes but turn Amanda into a pretty dangerous stealth killer.
Basically in a similar way to how scratched mirror turns Myers from a snowballer into a jumpscare ambusher
I guess? The with that is that you'd have to thread a very careful line of buffing her ambush enough to make it worth losing all the stall potential she has while also making sure you don't go overboard and make it too hard to escape Pig in a chase.
Also, Scratched Mirror Myers is another one of those add-ons that only really works in-doors, so I wouldn't call that really something to use as a good example.
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@Ihatelife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1434492#Comment_1434492
Yes he was, but notice: if he's gonna camp now with chainsaw, he's gonna trigger the tantrum mechanic.
That's camping the hook. Unless you have an idea to stop Pig from crouching next to the hook. Anyways, we're kinda derailing the thread. Best go back to the topic at hand.
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@Ihatelife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1434477#Comment_1434477
Dude. I'm not saying that pig needs a nerf, but I think she's gonna be nerfed in her update rework in the same way like bubba and billy.
Bubba was buffed, though.
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@that1chick69 said:
Do you ever let anyone boop the snoot as a pig main? I love pigs for that <3 especially if I’m the last survivor.
I like pretending that I don't know what boop snoots are to make Survivors who try it get salty.
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@Ihatelife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1434474#Comment_1434474
Really? You don't see it in the chainsaw brothers? Devs are now trying to pusish you if you're gonna use your powers to camping. Letherface tantrum...Hillbilly's overheat....
That's a different discussion altogether. Those changes discourage camping the hook. You're suggesting discouraging attacking Survivors.
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@Ihatelife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1434447#Comment_1434447
I mean. They can always change the mechanic of how RBT's to be a better stall tool. Look how many new and reworked perks are now affected by the entity. You know what? I think when it comes to pig update, if the killer will interput the survivor with RBT when he's looking for the key in jigsaw boxes, the entity will just take off the RBT like items for Franklin's Demise. Something like that you know...
That makes zero sense.
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@Ihatelife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1434418#Comment_1434418
Just because they tried doesn't mean that they can't try again. I have a feeling that they're gonna try to do with this. I also have feeling that her crouch animation will be more smooth and her ambush attack will be buffed.
I won't go too far into it, as this isn't really the thread for that, but consider this: There's only so much that can be done to trim the problematic parts of the Reverse Bear Trap without running the risk of making the RBTs non-threatening to the point where Survivors just stop respecting them. Yes, they are a stall tool first, but if there isn't enough of a threat to them, then Survivors will have little issue with just ignoring them and working on gens until the Timer starts up. Which means they won't be doing their job of being a stall tool.
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@Ihatelife said:
Because I bet that she will be nerfed with camping jigsaw boxes and tunneling people with reverse bear traps.
They already tried "nerfing" tunneling people with RBTs, and it didn't work. Also, how would one nerf camping Jigsaw Boxes? Move the key to a different box and make the Survivor waste time running to it?
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I disagree on Face Mask being okay. I think it's garbage. All four of the "Survivors wearing a Reverse Bear Trap suffer from the ________ status effect" add-ons should be changed IMO.
From my experience, Tampered Timer isn't nearly as potent as Scorpionz described. If anything, it's a bad add-on because unless someone straight-up dies to the Reverse Bear Trap (which they probably won't, even in the most ideal scenario for the Pig), the add-on does absolutely nothing. That said, I support changing it because of that, as either it does EVERYTHING and kills someone or it does NOTHING and rots with no real control over it (short of just crouch-tunneling someone to death). I always seem to waffle on how I feel about an add-on that auto-starts the RBTs. I guess if there's no Tampered Timer, it's fine? I don't like the idea of making it so finishing more gens strikes off more time from a Trap.
Amanda's Secret and RSN2 should be completely gutted and reworked entirely, yes.
I think Amanda's Letter simply needs the downside removed. As-is, it only really puts in work on in-door maps, and I don't think upping the aura-reading is going to fix that (especially if you're going to completely gut the RBTs entirely).
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@GarlicPops said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1434357#Comment_1434357
There isn't actually a reliable way for the developers to completely prevent people from tunneling or camping, however they do make it so people who do that regularly will never rank up and won't ruin the matches of higher ranked survivors. Some tweaks done to killers like the new Bubba rework and perks like BT and DS prevents such strategies, so the mere existence of them already discourages killers to tunnel or camp and gives survivors some breathing room if they face a killer like that.
Instead they'll ruin the matches of mid-low rank Survivors. Which is a bigger problem. At least high-rank Survivors are more likely to just gen rush and not let the camper/tunneler get as much mileage from camping/tunneling.
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@Mookywolf said:
i mean if you care about pipping and bloodpoints sure, but i prefer to have fun over all that. and i have fun watching people's heads explode.
I agree with this.
@GarlicPops said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1434309#Comment_1434309
I have to disagree with that, the piping system works in such a way to encourage you not to camp, tunnel or hard slug. You must hook all survivors to get extra points, you must hook one survivor multiple times, you lose points if you stay too close to a hooked survivor etc. Just killing all 4 survivors doesn't actually represent your skill and your ability to end chases and apply pressure, if that was the case a mori would be an insta double pip. You need knowledge about how the piping system works in order to adapt your playstyle to it.
If you want to discourage camping/tunneling, it should done through in-game means to actually make camping/tunneling less viable, not by just taking away points. If someone doesn't care about the current ranking system (like me), then "five points from Gryffindor" is not going to do anything to dissuade a camper/tunneler. IMO, the current emblem system is bad and has been bad for a while, and as such I haven't paid any real attention to it from a results standpoint.
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I think if anything about the ambush should be changed, it's the lion noise. Me thinks it should be delayed until she's about to let loose with the ambush attack. As-is, it telegraphs the attack too much IMO.
Also, while I think reloading Reverse Bear Traps is an okay idea done correctly, I think being able to set the correct box for Traps is way too abusable. I think the safest way to have her reload RBTs is to simply let her get one back after a LONG period of time has passed. Maybe even make it so you can't start to recover RBTs unless you don't have any left Something to prevent a scenario where she effectively has unlimited RBTs.
Punishing someone for searching the wrong box is hella punishing. Even Deep Wound can be ridiculous, since you can end up wasting a considerable amount of time mending before you can power through a box. I don't think punishing a Survivor for searching wrong boxes would be reasonable at anything less than an Ultra Rare add-on, and even then it'd probably have to be toned down to make it something like Trapper's Bloody Coil add-on where it only makes Healthy people Injured (maybe even lesser than that, since at least with Trapper's Bear Traps, you technically don't ever have to disarm one if you don't want to).
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One of my earliest memories playing DBD involved me as a Trapper having one person on a Hook after the gates were opened. The other two who were still alive went around to the wall behind the hook. Together, they simultaneously circled the wall from opposite ends to free their comrade. *snap* *snap* Turns out I had a Bear Trap on each side of the wall. Just the way they both timed making their move and stepped into Traps at almost the same time was pretty funny to me.
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Two things to note in the video:
1) He was specifically using Pighouse Gloves, which "moderately" decreases the heat gained when starting to rev the chainsaw, and Punctured Muffler, which "slightly" increases the rate of cooling.
2) The one time he successfully chainsawed someone down at a pallet loop, it was because the Meg stopped and doubled back toward the Hillbilly.
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@Wamps said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1432225#Comment_1432225
LOL! Lucky for you Tag, We don't Premiere until August 8th!!
Whoops. Somehow my brain malfunctioned and apparently stopped reading after the word "Saturday" and then continued reading at "8PM Eastern". My baaaaaaaaad.
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EDIT: Never mind. My brain doesn't know how to finish sentences. :P
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Just an FYI, being easy to play and hard to master doesn't make a character balanced or unbalanced. What determines that is how strong or weak a character is once you have a strong grasp on how to use that character.
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Yeah, I have to agree. The old one is way better.
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Does anyone have footage of the old tantrum? I'd like to compare the two.
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@Frareid88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1428352#Comment_1428352
I'm clutching at straws here to try and salvage a sheer moment of excitement before actually thinking through about how bs that idea was
It is a cool idea, no doubt. Like, having Team Fortress 2's Spy as a Killer. The difference is that Team Fortress 2 has a whole lot of enemies you need to deal with, which in theory could allow a lone Spy to infiltrate enemy lines in disguise even with mics and whatnot. In Dead By Daylight, you can stay entirely focused on the whereabouts of the imposter, which is substantially easier when you can just ask a teammate over Discord "Is that you?"
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@Frareid88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1428010#Comment_1428010
By that time you have a knife in your head though
Not really. Survivor A has plenty of time to ask over the mic if that Survivor B over there is actually them or not.
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I don't like the idea of natural self-unhooking being super variance-driven. I would rather it be a guaranteed option you can take that imposes a hefty penalty of sorts (with Deliverance effectively removing that penalty and making it function like how self-unhooking with Deliverance normally does), making the risk-reward be "can you overcome the penalty you get from making that choice" as opposed to "will you get lucky."
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I think the existence of SWF and the ability to use comms poses a fundamental problem for a purely Mimic-type killer that I don't think that can be solved.
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@V1V3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1427924#Comment_1427924
Okay so a add-on that makes him a steroid version of the legion. I'll edit my post then. Lol
Seems to me like a sign that something is wrong with Legion.
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He also gains his charges back instantly for downing someone, which can end up him playing like the Legion
He needs an Ultra Rare add-on to be able to do that.
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Pebble should just be a straight cooldown, not this janky "stay in the Killer's TR without getting into a chase" nonsense.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1425878#Comment_1425878
Yes but at least that one is effecting her power since it only activates while cloaked
Not according to the add-on description:
Fresh Blood Marks are considerably more discernible than normal.
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Wraith has an add-on that is straight-up just Bloodhound without the increased bloodpool duration.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1425618#Comment_1425618
Unless they dramatically change the endgame dynamic after last gen pops, it would be far too unfair on killers to remove hook camping at endgame by having a despawn mechanic.
That said perhaps this could be a major perk buff to Camaraderie? Once reaching struggle phase if a teammate reaches within 16 metres the timer extends by 34 seconds AND despawns you to entirely new hook across the map?
This kinda reminds me of a magician-themed perk idea I had where getting hooked for the first time would let you vanish from the hook and re-appear on another random hook.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1424673#Comment_1424673
Billy's perk is Lightborn. Idk, it seems to fit as a part of his kit.
That doesn't really make a difference to me. Add-ons that have nothing to do with a Killer's power are a big thumbs down in my book.
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I strongly disapprove of Killer add-ons that have nothing to do with the Killer's power.
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@tippy2k2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1422389#Comment_1422389
Then you might as well put a bullet in the game and put it out of it's misery
There are a lot of people who play in that Group 1. That is a lot of people who will abandon the game if you decide to just strip it away or punish it enough that people decide that you've made it too big of a hurdle to overcome if a couple of buddies just want to have fun and play with their friends.
Solution: Make sure you don't over-do it.
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@tippy2k2 said:
The issue is there are two kinds of SWF groups
- The group of friends who want to play together
- The SWAT Team
Group 1 is great to play with. They're fun; they get to have a good time with their friends while I as the killer get to go through my normal Killer Duties and stab people
Group 2 is the problem. While this may be anecdotal evidence, I have found that the SWAT Team is usually not only damn impossible to beat since they are in constant communication with each other but they're always the biggest toxic ######### to play again. If there is a cheap tactic, they'll use it and if they get any chance at all to mock the killer, they will 1000% take it.
The biggest issue that Group 2 causes though is that these are the groups killers remember and these are the groups that make killers quit the game because they're not only frustrating to play from a game-play standpoint, they always seem to make sure to rub it in your face and make the experience as awful as humanly possible.
The problem is that I don't know how you could solve Group 2 without directly hurting Group 1
The problem is that I don't know how you could solve Group 2 without directly hurting Group 1
My two cents: In most video games, "I want to have fun with X" isn't a very good counterargument to "X is overpowered and should be balanced."
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@MongolPSR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1422281#Comment_1422281
What do you want in return for it? im willing to compromise I have always been willing to listen so what do you think is fair for this change in return?
I don't think there is a reasonable compromise that can be made. A worse Unbreakable at basekit is too much IMO. Especially as long as Decisive Strike remains.
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@MongolPSR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1422237#Comment_1422237
or, and I want you to just work with me here. Maybe perks shouldn't be created and used to solve problems. If we add to base kits we eliminate the need to create busted perks in the first place. saying that there are perks that solve the problem only admits that there is a problem without the perk. I've also stated before and I still dont think differently but if a survivor gets off of the floor by themselves that means the killer made a mistake.
You're still giving the Survivor team an additional 4 perks for free. 4 GOOD perks.
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Because you're giving the Survivor team an additional 4 perks for free.
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Makes it so you can't just stand in front of a hooked Survivor permarevved.Misunderstood what you meant. Yeah, as said above, this was already known when they were discussing Leatherface's re-work:
Charges refill automatically at a rate of one every few seconds.
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I maintain that Gargamel was actually legit funny in the live-action Smurfs movie, even though the movie as a whole was terrible.