Szarman
Szarman
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- Szarman
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Hmm.. What about
Presitge 1 : New Perks start to drop at lvl 1
Prestige 2: New Perks start to drop at lvl 2
Prestige 3: New Perks start to drop at lvl 3
So when your character is at prestige 3, the perk grind would be massively reduced.
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I like the idea but instead of applying blindness, I would make that OoO deactivates when doing actions like repairing, clensing totems etc. So you will still be able to see people on the hook or use the aura related perks when doing actions. :)
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Wow that's a really good post! I love it :D
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@AhoyWolf said:
I like the idea of "Hidden Wound", but it feels too complicated. (Too many numbers I would say)
I like all of the base kit changes tho, good job! (I still like the current Terror Radius based Killer Instinct tho, but I could live with your change :) )
The addon's are mostly ok, the fatigue addons need a bit of work, since the fatigue can now be 2 seconds when hitting all 4 Survivors, so with those addons it could basically be an insta down, make it cap at 2 or 2.5 seconds, so these addons will just make your fatigue shorter with each hit, but it will do it faster.
Thanks, I'm glad you like it! Actually the fatigue addons also decrease the rate of fatigue in each hit in single frenzy. So when you pick Cold Dirt and Joey's Mixtape your fatigue is always 2.5 seconds, and hits are not decreasing it :). That's all. Thank you one more time for commenting! :D
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Hey @AhoyWolf ! Can you tell me your opinion on these changes? :)
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I don't really know why they nerfed it. Discordance was okay before the patch. Devs didn't even show us the change on the PTB and just put it into the update without saying. They should just make this perk work for 12/10/8 seconds not 8/10/12 and Discordance would be perfect. Shame...
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EDIT:
I changed The Blade addons and The Mending time. I think that change could make The Legion less annoying to play against.
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I like the idea :D
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1681059#Comment_1681059
Hidden Wound
Hidden Wound would bring back the ability for The Legion to focus down one Survivor. This is essentially the same as old Legion, just with a different mechanic. It also seems incredibly inconsistent. It's quite easy to remove, and reduces progress at a steady rate, so the only real way to ever have a Survivor at 100% of Hidden Wound is by using Feral Frenzy on them over and over again. Couple that with the reduced cooldown on the power gauge, and you're looking at one powerful tunneling machine. I don't think this is the direction Legion can or should be taken. It's way too difficult to make Feral Frenzy lethal.
Fatigue
I feel as though this would be wildly inconsistent. Sometimes all Survivors would be together, allowing you to have an extremely brief fatigue, and other times you would be stuck staring at your hands for a good few seconds. I believe the fatigue should be a flat 3 seconds, and then have 1 add-on that affects this. Double stabbing should indeed cancel out your fatigue state in exchange for a lengthened attack cooldown.
MISSED ATTACKS
The Legion already has very little counter-play. They added the penalty to create very meaningful risk and consequence for missing in Feral Frenzy. I don't believe lessening the penalty within the base power is a good direction to take.
KILLER INSTINCT
Yes, please. Although, I'm not sure the developers are too keen on improving Killer Instinct further, as its already quite the powerful tracking tool.
Deep Wound
While I agree that the timer should be shorter, I think 15 seconds by default is just a tad bit too short. For consistency purposes, (Survivor perks/add-ons) I think the bleed out timer should be a default of 20 seconds.
Add-ons
Etched & Scratched Rulers: I personally think they need a buff, not a nerf. You lowered the cooldown time, and in exchange are nerfing the cooldown add-ons. Makes sense, but I still think they're too weak.
Smiley, Defaced, & The Legion Pins: They should apply their effects on all Feral Frenzy hits. Personally, I love the Broken status effect, and I'm a little sad to see it go, in exchange for mild slowdown. The Legion is already good at slowing the game down, I don't think Survivors would be too keen on holding M1 even longer.
Fatigue add-ons: Rework the lower tier fatigue affecting add-ons to create new and interesting effects, and set Cold Dirt to reduce fatigue by 0.5 seconds.
Stab Wounds Study: I like the idea. I also remember that @Almo mentioned how it would be great for The Legion to have an Undetectable add-on, although Killer Instinct would need to be changed to a static range, just as you suggested within the post.
Frank's Mix Tape: Another great idea, however coupled with the changes you made with Hidden Wound, its too strong, and would bring back old problems.
Fuming Mix Tape: Sounds neat, and is debatably an improvement over the current generator monitoring effect it has.
Thanks for a comment. But I just wanted to mention that i created the whole "Hidden Wound" Mechanic mostly to make people heal more often. Not just to straightly down. Also i think tunneling won't be a good idea to do beacuse:
first hit that apllies deep wound = 30% and after that hitting a deep wounded surv + 20% = 50% of Hidden Wound timer. Now you have 5.5 seconds fatigue and than 15 seconds power charging so 20.5 seconds.
second hit= +20% hidden wound so together 70%. 6 seconds fatigue and 15 seconds power recharging= 21 seconds
21 seconds + 20.5 seconds = 41.5 seconds.
third hit= +20% so 90% Hidden wound so another 21 seconds of waiting
21+ 20.5 +21 seconds =62.5 seconds
fourth hit = 100% of Hidden Wound. Now wait another 21 seconds
21+20.5+21+21 = 83.5 seconds
and after 83.5 seconds of chasing you start your Feral Frenzy and hit a Survivor at the rate of 100% Hidden Wound. So as you can see not as effective :)
fatigue
I like the idea of reducing hits on hits in single Frenzy but everyone has their own opinion.
Missing attacks
You are right Frenzy has little Counterplay, but missing an attack in current state is too much punishy. Especially for new players. They just miss an attack and become m1 killer for 20 seconds. None of other killers have such a big punishment.
Addons
Rulers: I had to nerf the yellow addon a bit because Frenzy now recharges for 15 seconds instead of 20. So even if you pick them both you have only 10 of charging. I think that's really fast.
Also i had to change the Legion Pin because of the mechanic that i created, and to make it possible to counterplay. I think that additonal -9% penalty to gens is okay.
Fatigue Addons:
I think the addons that i created here can be pretty nice. They remove the inconsistency of how the fatigue can work at the cost of not reducing the fatigue on Frenzy hits.
At the End i wanted to thank you for providing me your feedback :).
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@FranksMixtape_0P said:
As a legion main I think this idea is pretty good. It's not a major buff that will make them really boring to go up against and it's not a weak buff either. Gives them a little more lethality. It's a bit gimmicky and I like it. But hey come on we gotta get the devs to add in some new chase music for legion. God that would be amazing.
I'm happy that you like the idea :D. I would also love to see a chase music for The Legion. :)
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@Tatariu can you give me your thoughts on these changes? :)
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Good ideas! :D
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
@Szarman after re-reading, i noticed a few of my own ideas incorperated into this (reducing the DW timer, reducing fatigue by 0.5 secs per successful stab). Coincidence, or are you taking notes, hmm?
Eh, doesn't matter.
To be honest i haven't seen your posts.
Reducing the deep wound timer is a pretty popular idea. I posted it here because i hate when survivors can open the gate while deep wounded, or even grid pretty nice amount of generator.
I wanted to reduce the Deep Wound timer for each hit in Frenzy, to make the Legion more powerful, after doing a good play.
I had these ideas in my mind for a bit since I'm a Legion main, and i know his weaknesess. But still if I would take it from your post i would ask you if I can use them in my post, and paste link to your post :)
It was just a normal coincidence. :D
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Hey @Almo. Can you give me your opinion on these changes please? :)
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@Orion said:
This is very interesting indeed, but I would suggest the following change:
- Hidden Wound only applies if you're affected by Deep Wound while the timer is going down. With this mechanic, survivors will likely be trying to group up so they can heal each other after Mending. If Hidden Wound is applied regardless, this is essentially punishing them for trying to counter Hidden Wound.
I like it! :)
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@Hazz1123 said:
Seems like a fine idea, although it might be a bit annoying for survivors if they have no way of tracking the Hidden Wound % - I get that that's the point but I dunno... Like you said, PTB would figure out if it's balanced or not.
I really like the idea of changing the cooldown when he misses his ability though. Maybe instead of it the gauge remaining where it was when he missed, instead he gets a 25% depletion. That way he still gets punished for missing, but not as much. E.g. If he misses at 75%, it drops down to 50% and then starts recharging.
to make things clear: Survivors can see the Hidden Wound meter the same as The Legion. :)
And I like the idea with missing the attack that would ballance it more :)
@Levitika said:
Very interesting concept. Doesn't take away from their role of dividing pressure, but increases their ability to apply it individually to affect the group.
I'm happy you like it :D
@danielmaster87 said:
I really think if Legion should be given any additional mechanic, it should have to do with his multiple personalities. Hence the name "Legion".
You know, everyone has it's own idea. I like the current Legion and i want just some tweaks. You would like to have whole Legion members based power and that's okay. :D
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
I was rude in your previous iteration of this, and for that, I apologize once more. This is much better thought out than what it was like before.
I think rather than calling it "Hidden Wound" you can just call it marking a survivor, sorta like how Ghosty's stalk is referred to as "marking" in his add-ons.
I'm not offended so there is no problem :). I'm happy that you like this idea :D. Yeah calling it "marking" would make it much easier for everyone so that's a good idea!
@[Deleted User] said:
I think this is a pretty good idea. That way the Legion is still handsomely rewarded for using their power to split pressure, as intended. They'd be a lot more fearsome in three-gen situations for that reason, and they'd be able to punish survivors going for risky saves with their power much more effectively than they currently can. Still, since the first hit after Legion activates Frenzy is basically free I don't think Legion should ever be able to down somebody with it, even if they banked up hidden wounds by hitting others first. So, I'd change it such that the hidden wounds meter goes back to zero after Legion breaks Frenzy.
If you limit it to one Frenzy, you could simplify things such that any Frenzy where you get 3 (4?) hits, even if the last hit is someone you already deep wounded, causes the last person to go down instantly. Given all the math behind it in your current proposal and the lack of the visual indicator, like an Exposed status, for survivors, it would be useful to simplify things so that they know exactly when they risk going down.
My tweak might make this change not quite strong enough on its own so they might need other buffs too to make Legion actually dangerous, but I think it'd be a good change.
I'm glad that you like my idea! :D. Your idea is also good, but i think that it will be hard to use on bigger maps like Red Forest. But still I like both of these ideas :)
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@immortalls96 said:
A neat idea,, with some refinement it could give legion some lethality
Thanks for a comment :)
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any more opinions guys? :)
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@bjorksnas said:
thats just old legion with extra steps, however I would be on board with changes to it
Survivors at 80% Hidden wound stay there, the only way to reach 100% hidden wound is with a double tap feral frenzy hit
that way its closer to a 99 with ghostface and survivors survivors don't get downed on the first hit, and don't get downed while away from you
Franks mix tape, No (feral frenzy hits now count as basic attacks instead)
The Survivors are only getting downed with Hidden Wound when you hit a DEEP WOUNDED survivor in Feral Frenzy. Not on the first hit, always on the second. And yeah the Frank's mixtape also could be changed but as i said I wanted to show you the idea, and possibly make the changes later with the community ;D.
@bubbabrotha said:
I like it!
Thank you so much :D. I'm glad you like it
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@Gaala said:
I think is fine, though some test are needed. As for now, i think that Legion without addons is good, but with some drawback. With addons, you reduce that drawback, or improve other aspect (like speed or the ability to destroy pallets istantly in FF). As now, i can't think of any combination that can be considered too powerful. The best combination, in my opinion, is Iridiscent Button + Frank Mixtape, but it's nowhere near some other powerful combination of other killer like the istadown Huntress, or Trapper with trap that down survivor that free themselves and that reset automatically after 30 seconds.
But as i said, it needs testing first.
Okay I updated the post. Thank you so much for the conversation :D
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Okay i think the 4 seconds of stun are perfect. But i would make it that way:
2 seconds of weapon wiping, 2 seconds of fatigue = 4 seconds of the whole cooldown.
I added the weapon wiping to change the fatigue addons a bit
Fatigue addons:
- Reduces fatigue of Feral Frenzy by 0.2/0.3/0.4s
- Reduces "the weapon wiping" time after attacking a Deep Wounded Survivor while in feral frenzy by 0.2/0.4/0.6s
So while you attack a Deep Wounded Survivor with Cold Dirt you will have 3 seconds of cooldown
While you finish your Feral Frenzy by clicking the M2 button you will have 2.6 cooldown
Do you think that's okay? :D
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@Gaala said:
As Legion main, i really like this. Specially the addons. I like that the pin can still be used on survivor in DW to apply some effect, instead of the unreliable "hit another one to apply this" and the speed one (we have that when legion was out, and they were my favorite).
Frank Mixtape can be a little too powerful, maybe. But, like you said, it's very hard to just use it when it's just at 25%. As before, when Legion was released and survivor can be downed like that, i still had to wait for at least 50% of the power, to prevent a window juke, locker juke or a possibly pallet drop. And we have other killer that have purple addons more powerful than that (for example, Honing Stone for Trapper or Rusty Shakles for Hag). Otherwise, it can be a iridescent addons instead of the actual Fuming Mixtape (cause, really, who cares about how much the generator are repaired?). Lastly, even with the best possible teory, you still need to hit them 2 more times in FF. So, if it took, at best, 13,8 seconds to hit them, you still have to do it again for another 13,8 seconds, for a total of 27,6 seconds. In the best possible way.
As for the KI notification that scale based on distance, i don't think it necessary. A good legion know if the notification are too far to reach, and it's up to the killer to learn when it's too far away or when to try.
In the end, i really hope they will change Legion like this, returning him / her to the former glory (without exploiting with moonwalk). I find it that having a power only to prolong the game isn't much, and it's too much similar to the Deathslinger power.
Edit : I forgot something. As now, when the Legion hit someone with his normal m1, 50% of the power will deplete. In your idea, you will still use this mechanic or will erase it?
Also I forgot to say. I was thinking about adding an additional cooldown when hitting a deep wounded survivor in Feral Frenzy. Weapon Wiping effect like when the Legion came out, that would last for 2 seconds, and then normal fatigue that would last for 3 seconds. So that would be 5 seconds of cooldown, giving survivors more time to escape. Could you tell me what would you think about that change? :D
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@Justalittlepeeck said:
So basically old legion?
Would've been 100x better if his power worked like:
1st survivor hit in frenzy = injure + deep wound
2nd survivor hit in same frenzy = injure + deep wound with 66% of the timer left + mangled for 60 seconds
3rd survivor hit in same frenzy = injure + deep wound with 33% of the timer left + mangled for 60 seconds + hindered for 15 seconds
4th,5th and so on survivors hit in same frenzy = instadown.
If survivor has healed from deep wound and you hit them again in same frenzy, they are counted as new survivor. So you don't lose your instadown when you suddenly get rid of 1+ survivor and that would also make instantly mending more punishing.
Also, vaulting pallets should break them as basekit.
Red addons could be like "You can mori 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th survivor hit in same frenzy" and "feral frenzy has unlimited duration, unless you are in 1 chase for more than 10 seconds. FF cooldown is increased by X seconds for every Y seconds spent in frenzy"
Not gonna lie I don't like your idea at all. You trying to make The Legion punish survivors for mending? That would be OP against noobs and very bad against good survivors. They could just mend on 99% and your whole rework wouldn't even work.
The Idea about morying survivors while in Frenzy is just stupid. Same as before even more op against the noobs and still very easily countered by good survivors. I don't like the idea of Infinite Feral Frenzy addon. That would some feeling with his Power and saving it for later imo.
Breaking the Pallets in Frenzy as base kit is also not good idea. It wouldn't be immersive at any way, Legion doesn't need that tbh. It's perfect on an Iridesctent Button and it should stay there.
The Cooldown idea is not also my thing, If you are long in Frenzy you have longer cooldown. Idk what about you but I wouldn't like to be in a 10 seconds cooldown XD
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@Gaala said:
As Legion main, i really like this. Specially the addons. I like that the pin can still be used on survivor in DW to apply some effect, instead of the unreliable "hit another one to apply this" and the speed one (we have that when legion was out, and they were my favorite).
Frank Mixtape can be a little too powerful, maybe. But, like you said, it's very hard to just use it when it's just at 25%. As before, when Legion was released and survivor can be downed like that, i still had to wait for at least 50% of the power, to prevent a window juke, locker juke or a possibly pallet drop. And we have other killer that have purple addons more powerful than that (for example, Honing Stone for Trapper or Rusty Shakles for Hag). Otherwise, it can be a iridescent addons instead of the actual Fuming Mixtape (cause, really, who cares about how much the generator are repaired?). Lastly, even with the best possible teory, you still need to hit them 2 more times in FF. So, if it took, at best, 13,8 seconds to hit them, you still have to do it again for another 13,8 seconds, for a total of 27,6 seconds. In the best possible way.
As for the KI notification that scale based on distance, i don't think it necessary. A good legion know if the notification are too far to reach, and it's up to the killer to learn when it's too far away or when to try.
In the end, i really hope they will change Legion like this, returning him / her to the former glory (without exploiting with moonwalk). I find it that having a power only to prolong the game isn't much, and it's too much similar to the Deathslinger power.
Edit : I forgot something. As now, when the Legion hit someone with his normal m1, 50% of the power will deplete. In your idea, you will still use this mechanic or will erase it?
Thanks for a comment :D. Switching the Frank's Mixtape with Fuming Mixtape could also be a thing a will be thinking about that. The KI mechanic that I created here was meant to be a more reliable detection power. Just to make the detection more exact than now, but less exact then the aura reading. About the mechanic when the 50% depletes It never made any sense to me tbh. After you hit a survivor with m1 why would you even want to go into Feral Frenzy? I never understood this mechanic so i will be for erasing it.
@ClickyClicky said:
Skimmed through but this sounds like a straight up buff.
He needs a rework not a buff tbh and since theres practically no counterplay to his frenzy a missed attack should end it immediately
I made that missed attack still ends Feral Frenzy, but just is not as punishing as before :). Also Feral Frenzy is very easy to counter as Gaala said. I play a lot of The Legion as also a lot of Survivor and I never have a problem with playing against it. When he is in Frenzy and you hear TR just run away, there is no way he would catch you. You can easily split up with other survivors splitting the pressure on the map. Then Legion is in a really bad spot. There is a lot of way to juke him. On pallets you can go into his hitboxes, On windows you can do a really easy window tech. So he wouldn't be able to down you with even 25% of the power as NuclearBurrito said in my opinion.
Rework could also be a thing but than you have to change his power a lot, and I love idea of Feral Frenzy not gonna lie.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1661439#Comment_1661439
3 second CD to start, Survivor gains 3.9 meters still
2.25 seconds before power re-use, during which time legion gains 0.9 meters
15% of his power gauge is 0.9 seconds of use for 1.08 meters gained, and you still lunge at the end for an additional 1.45 meters. Or in other words, 0.47 meters of remaining distance. This requires an additional 0.55 seconds of waiting
Totaled this is 13.8 seconds
The version of legion you are proposing downs almost 5 seconds faster.
I WANTED to post a video clip here instead of more math, but I couldn't find an old Legion video of someone attempting frenzy downs that wasn't either moonwalking, using franks mixtape or both. It's not that I found video's of people failing to do it quickly, but that no one was even attempting it that I could quickly find. I'm sure it exists somewhere, but there are a lot of Legion videos to sort through, both new and old and I only have so much time.
I uderstand what do you mean but there is almost no chance to use frenzy with 15% of Frenzy. You can't make Frenzy Lunge excactly at the end of the Frenzy. when you vault survivors also gain distance. I can make this addon to be able to start on 25% if you think that would be at least a bit more balanced but imo it wouldn't change anything :P
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1661368#Comment_1661368
He isn't slower, they reverted that.
And fine, I'll get you the exact timeframe.
Ahem: Starting the chase from the 2nd frenzy hit (since the first one applies DW and the 2nd doesn't have a cooldown in between) you have:
- 3 seconds of cooldown, Survivor gains 3.9 meters of distance during this time
- Frenzy is usable after 1.5 seconds post fatigue and gains 0.9 meters of distance
- With 10% of your power bar Frenzy can be active for 1 second, which is 1.2 meters of distance, but you can also lunge at the end for an additional 1.45 meters of distance, leaving you 0.25 meters away. As such you must wait an additional 0.2 seconds
- This must happen twice for a grand total of 9.4
So your right, it's not 10 seconds. It's LESS than 10 seconds.
Even if you take into account the first 2 hits that's 20 seconds tops since you aren't going to start a chase at all from more than 12 meters away and the 2nd hit happens almost immediately after the first.
Vaults will add a fixed 0.9 seconds to this time per vault since the duration is paused during a vault.
On paper it sounds good, but in reality in most cases you will have to get at least 50% of your power gauge :). Look at the "Old Legion" Videos on youtube and show me a video when someone got downed without franks mixtape faster than 20 seconds :)
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@AhoyWolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/195115/the-legion-update
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1660955#Comment_1660955
I will give a full review of your rework. :)
Fatigue changes: Just yes.
Powergauge changes: Yes.
The DW hit changes: I'm don't like this change, probably because of old Legion and because Legion's power just ignores every defense in the game.
Missing Attack changes: Yes.
Killer Instinct changes: I don't have any problems how the current KI works, but this sounds ok. (Also I think the KI bubble scaling isn't necessary)
Deep Wound changes: Yes.
ADDONS
Recovery Addons: Since the cooldown is so low I don't see a reason to buff these addons, I would even nerf those because Feral Frenzy can now be lethal.
Pins: So basically the old pins with mixed with the new ones, I think that's cool.
KI addons: Sounds fun, Legion is the only Killer without movement speed addons. :(
Duration addons: We need that .5 at the end!
Fatigue addons: Like I said, not the biggest fan of those. (Also where did you found the old values? 👀)
Blade addons: I hate those addons tbh, I never use them, I like the change tho, maybe they could make the Survivors unable to work on anything until they mend?
Stab Wound Study: Sounds good.
Frank's Mix Tape: No, This would make Legion broken again, since you made FF lethal.
Fuming Mix Tape: Pretty good, I would also make Legion able to see Gen auras while KI is active. (But that probably is a bug with current Legion)
i got old numbers from old PTB patchnotes
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@NuclearBurrito said:
If you bring franks mixtape then you can down any Survivor in just over 10 seconds every time.
We don't want old legion.
Not 10 seconds my dude :). Maybe it will be a pretty good possibility to down a survivor but you will lose a lot more time to do so. Still Legion is slower in Frenzy than before and you can juke Legion in some ways. Still i respect your opinion. Also remember that there is no insta downing and chase exploiting as before :)
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@AhoyWolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/195115/the-legion-update
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1660955#Comment_1660955
I will give a full review of your rework. :)
Fatigue changes: Just yes.
Powergauge changes: Yes.
The DW hit changes: I'm don't like this change, probably because of old Legion and because Legion's power just ignores every defense in the game.
Missing Attack changes: Yes.
Killer Instinct changes: I don't have any problems how the current KI works, but this sounds ok. (Also I think the KI bubble scaling isn't necessary)
Deep Wound changes: Yes.
ADDONS
Recovery Addons: Since the cooldown is so low I don't see a reason to buff these addons, I would even nerf those because Feral Frenzy can now be lethal.
Pins: So basically the old pins with mixed with the new ones, I think that's cool.
KI addons: Sounds fun, Legion is the only Killer without movement speed addons. :(
Duration addons: We need that .5 at the end!
Fatigue addons: Like I said, not the biggest fan of those. (Also where did you found the old values? 👀)
Blade addons: I hate those addons tbh, I never use them, I like the change tho, maybe they could make the Survivors unable to work on anything until they mend?
Stab Wound Study: Sounds good.
Frank's Mix Tape: No, This would make Legion broken again, since you made FF lethal.
Fuming Mix Tape: Pretty good, I would also make Legion able to see Gen auras while KI is active. (But that probably is a bug with current Legion)
to make thing clear: I didn't buff the recovery addons and I didn't changed the duration addons :). Also about the Frank's mixtape i don't think it would be op but everyone has own opinion. Also I made that it actually decreases the Deep Wound Timer because in my opinion it makes no sense to Deplete your entire power, get the stun and give the survivor a speed boost without any positive effects. It should be changed in some way.
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@AhoyWolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1660689#Comment_1660689
You could easily make his power lethal with the both cooldown addons stacked, having 2.3 seconds cooldown is not much, just look at the addon combo when the Legion had the 3 second fatigue.
Also OP suggested to make their power lethal again, which I'm not the biggest fan of tbh.
Tunneling one person even with Frank's mixtape won't be the best tactic on him. He is not 110% movement speed anymore. At least The Legion won't be punished for hitting a survivor which doesn't make any sense to me. Is it really OP? When Old Legion was there most people thought that Legion without Frank's Mixtape or exploiting the bleed out mechanic wasn't a really good killer. Survivors right now when Legion is in fatigue in most cases make as much distance as possible. With shorter fatigue that would make them to drop pallets, use windows more strategically.
Also Old Legion fatigue addons:
- Cold Dirt: -0.75 seconds
- Joey's Mixtape: -0.5 seconds
- Julie's Mixtape: -0.35 seconds
So as you can see i nerfed these addons pretty much :)
I hope you are at least a bit more positive to this changes :)
@SunderMun said:
The only thing I don't like about this is the idea to revert the loss of gauge when hit by successive FF hits; that needs to stay away as an add-on only, imo. The rest...I love, and have begged for, for so long.
@AhoyWolf Nurse can shorten her fatigue below 3 seconds with add-ons, and noone complains about that. Atm, Legion's power isn't lethal and yet has a larger cooldown on its usage than her base kit. That said, if fatigue is reduced to 3 seconds, I probably wouldn't be fussed about cold dirt and the Joey's Mix Tape having completely changed functionality; I don't even use them in the first place since they feel like they change nothing to begin with (legit, I think it's been bugged since the rework)
Also thank you for your comments guys :)
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@NoOneKnowsNova said:
As a Legion main this sounds extremely good! I'd love to see most of these changes (I think the 3 second Cooldown with the missed attack could be a bit to oppressive but it could be tested in a PTB). The add ons all sound mostly great with better changes definitely making Legion much stronger.
My one problem is that many survivors already don't enjoy facing Legion so this could end negatively due to such. Other than that though I think this would be great! Well done dude.
Thank's I'm glad you like it :D. I made the fatigue a bit shorter because i think it's too punishing to have 4 seconds cooldown. Blight is the newest killer and has a pretty short fatigue after his power. Even Nurse have shorter fatigue than The Legion. Thank you one more time for the comment :D
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Tell me what do you think about this changes guys :D
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I like it! :D
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@Observia said:
Props to you, this is excellent!
Thank you! I'm glad you like it :D
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@DoomedMind said:
The thing is, Legion has a power that is not that powerful, it injures survivors and that's all. Deep wound is just a bad effect, but I'll guess the Legion gains some time thanks to that so it's an ok tier effect.
And when you missed, your power is off. Why. X) I mean, the Oni's power allows him to close-track hiding and injured survivors, and when active to gain a massive speed boost, and to one shot people. But he can miss, without loosing his power. But Legion can't miss. That's why it annoys me, because the legion's power mechanic is so bad when compared to others. :/ Make the missed attack slows the player like a normal missed lunge attack, I don't know, but immediately stops the power, depletes the gauge, and entering in a fatigue state of 4 seconds ? That's super rude for such a power
I'll take whatever rework for him, he needs love, really, and this one seems good (even if I would not keep the deep wound effect, I think a unique effect like the madness from the doctor would be super cool !) :)
thanks for a comment :)
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@IshinSolarc said:
Oh god, yes please, I liked every idea in this thread, and the best one definitely is reducing fatigue time, it really punishes The Legion way too much.
Thanks man :). I'm glad you like it.
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@Almo said:
I can't discuss design details publicly. But I have read it; that's all I can say. :)
Thanks for a comment :D. Hope you like it. Have a nice day :)
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@Almo Since i know, that you are reading a lot of feedback posts, can you please tell me what do you think about this changes? :)
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@sad_killer_main said:
Maybe bring back old legion?
I hope not. The Legion then was really annoying and he had no counterplay.
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@Avenclave said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1596545#Comment_1596545
Yeah, I know. But I don't understand, why everybody laughs about Legion then everytime. Longer mending and mending regression would makes him stronger and the gamer would take him more serious again. Maybe.
What I often see is that Legions stop firenzy after hitting one surv, when no other is around. I don't know, if that's the way it's ment to be. So firenzy also could be longer.
I think that duration of the current frezny is okay especially with addons that i created here (movement speed) and of course duration addons.
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@Avenclave said:
Heya, I like your ideas. Great posting. :)
In my opinion, the mending time should be longer in general. Not by add on. And it should regress faster, when the survs do not mend and do other things like gen or hooks instead. It could be a little change with a great effect. But it's just my thoughts. :)
Hello.
The mending timer could be longer you are right, but devs as I see don't really like the idea when you mend for too long. That's why they nerfed the mending action duration like 9 months ago. Regressing while doing actions is a really good idea :). I actually wrote it in some of my previous posts. Also thank you so much for a comment :).
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@animalmak said:
I like these ideas, but like even if it was just reducing that fatigue by a second and not depleting the gauge on a missed attack, I'd be happy.
Thanks for a comment :). I'm glad you like it.
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@TheNox said:
I love idea of new Stab Wounds Study. Other add-ons are ok too. Especially Frank's Mixtape. I'm not killer main or even killer side player but gimme reworked legion like this dude did it.
thanks man :)
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@Pennosuke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1578049#Comment_1578049
No, you bring back old legion playstyle that everyone hated.
The reason that causes this add-ons become trash isn't just because the value of Frank's Mixtape was reduced, but dev also nerf his base cooldown and prevent him to see deep wound timer to make the "old legion" playstyle really hard to do as much as possible.
but what are you try to do is...
- make Frank's mixtape base kit
- buff his cooldown reduction add-ons(this will cause player can use "old legion" playstyle easier)
- the missed attack doesn't cause power gauge to deplete (If you missed, you still can reduce the time that required to fully recharge power gauge)
- give add-ons that can cause power gauge not depleted when hit deep wound survivor while using feral frenzy (this add-ons will make "old legion" playstyle completely OP, BROKEN and really boring to go against)
I know that current Frank's mixtape effect is trash but trust me, don't try to buff it to make this playstyle "viable and balance" because it's impossible.
This playstyle can only be "OP" or "trash", just rework it to another playstyle.
//btw I still really like your other ideas.
Okay so.
1.Making Frank's Mixtape base kit is not bad. This addon is crap and now Legion is not actually getting punished when hitting a Deep Wounded survivor.
2.Cooldown reduction addons are completly reworked. His base kit is 3 seconds and it won't help much in this playstyle
3.Missed attack doesn't cause power gauge to deplete because it's stupid. None of killers is getting punished so badly when he misses an attack. Legion becomes a m1 killer for 20 seconds if he misses an attack It's 25% of generator when someone is repairing it solo. The Power still ends and you get the fatigue, but you save the rest of your power gauge. Still satisfying for survivors and not so punishy for killer.
4.Give one adddon, not addons which still depends on how good the survivor and killer is. You can juke The Legion on windows, pallets. If you can loop him for even 5 seconds he loses half of his power gauge.
With this changes you need 5 hits to down a survivor. 1 hit to apply Deep Wound and 4 hits while Deep Wound is applied. You will suffer from 3 cooldowns. Each will last for 23 seconds. For 69 seconds you will run with one survivor withour any addons. Still I'm not counting here time that you will loop survivor while your power is ready to activate. So let's say around 80 seconds. It's a one gen that is being repaired by 1 survivor. So when everyone is doing other gen they will repair 3 generators while you down one survivor :). With Frank's you will be able to short this time depending on your and survs skill.
Also remember that The Legion was not only complained about the downing in Frenzy mechanic. Abusing lunge, It was also annoying because The Legion was not not getting punished for missed attacks, Moonwalking, Overpowered Frank's Mixtape, and the survivors where losing progress while mending. Now there is not moonwalking, Deep Wound is not as oppressive as it was before, You are still getting punished from missing attacks in a satisfying way for survivors and downing in Frenzy with Frank's Mixtape is more skilled based. Now a bad legion won't be able to down you without any problem as it was before.
And I made Frank's base kit not to make him tunnel one survivor one match that will still be not effective, but to make survivors mend faster than when they are on 1% of Deep Wound, and to make Legion not getting punished for hitting a survivor.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1578046#Comment_1578046
Right but in your opinion a purple add on should have as much impact as a pink one so...
Anyways, I respect your ideas and was just trying to point out a flaw in logic that renders your effort obsolete. These changes are all good and I hope they happen, I just would have liked for Legion to have gotten better. Weird that you point out that we have separate opinions when I did nothing to suggest the contrary.
I meant that my opinion is that it should be an addon, you pointed out that it should be splitted as addon and base kit. I also respect everything you say. I think that pink addons are usually created to make the killer play a bit in different way. Still I see what you want to say to me here and it indeed makes sense :).
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@White_Owl said:
HITTING A DEEP WOUNDED SURVIVOR WHILE IN FERAL FRENZY
Decreases the survivor's Deep Wound timer (5 seconds)
Depletes your entire power gauge and ends your power immediately
Isn't this like old Legion, which everybody hated?
Nope, it's like the current Frank's which is one of the worst addons in dbd :)
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1578018#Comment_1578018
Idk I don't think there would be too much harm in splitting the effects, 5% basekit and +5% with add on. Having to rely on non-pink add ons to access powerful tools as killer never really made sense to me.
Yeah you are right but i think Legion doesn't need that much in his base kit. In my opinion i made changes in his base kit that were must have and changed addons that were very bad/not worth picking. I have my opinion, you have your opinion.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
Doesn't this make Legion a bit add on dependent? I wouldn't mind seeing some of the blade effects in their basekit.
I don't think so. Legion even now is not that much addon dependent and with buffs he will be even better. And i gave the blades a new effect because they are not worth picking right now imo. This slowdown effect in base kit could be to oppressive. Also thanks for your comment :)
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@Prex91 said:
Good job well done. Hope devs read it.
Thank you :). I'm glad you like it.