SmarulKusia
SmarulKusia
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2794783#Comment_2794783
Whew, there's a lot to this one...
Okay, first challenged assertion: Windows of Opportunity is not a bad perk, nor is it a training wheels perk. It gives you more information than just pallet spawns- it shows you which pallets have been dropped by teammates, which breakable walls have been kicked, and what pallets you actually have available. Technician I'll grant you, but it's not really a bad perk because it's a training wheels perk, it's... just kind of a bad perk in general, it's not even that useful for players who are still learning.
Second, I absolutely have to challenge the idea that a game with 0-2 hooks can be turned around by NOED if the skill gap actually is that intense. Remember that the perk has among the most counterplay in the game, it can be prevented from ever activating and it can be deactivated once it does, and it still requires the killer to win a chase- even if it makes chases slightly easier to win by giving a speed boost.
If the killer actually isn't good, what's the excuse for the perk not being disabled and the killer once again outplayed once that buff is removed from them? I absolutely buy that a good killer can snowball the one or two downs NOED gives you into a victory, but I don't buy for a second that a bad killer can in the way you're describing. NOED simply isn't that powerful, even while it's active, and there's no reason it should be active for that long unless a survivor team are running into it like lemmings.
Lastly, I have to disagree that the game you're describing "should" have been a 4-man escape. Games turn around in the endgame all the time without NOED, the game is not won just because the last generator popped.
Again, this is a personal opinion, and I'll allow you to have it. But personally, I believe that Windows IS a bad perk because of it's coddling aspect. No need to debate this though, as this is nothing more than difference of opinion.
As for your second point, I mean.. It truly can. A bad player doesn't have to be someone who loses the chase with not even a hit on the survivor, often times that I play against killers that I think aren't confident in chase, they'll leave me injured. But they leave me because of their inability to actually secure the down on me. NOED removes the bridge between chasing a healthy survivor and having to down them - by completely obliterating the stage in between - which is the injured state. As we've acknowledged, getting the initial hit is also fairly easy when assisted by a speedboost.
The counter argument of the perk being deactivated exists, and I acknowledge that the perk does have counter-play. But this counterplay pre-dominantly exists in the realm of SWF, and not necessarily solo-queue.
I won't lie to you, my MMR isn't the best, I'm someone who has a long history of DCing and I've somewhat ruined my MMR because of it, so I recognise that I'm playing in a lower skill bracket than what I'm supposed to be, so I know what high and low MMR games roughly look like. Let me tell you, that solo-q is god awful. I have a vivid memory of a recent game, the killer couldn't catch me, but I took my sweet time engaging in the chase to give my teammates time to do generators. Whenever I was out of chase, I would look for bones or finish a generator that survivors were taken off. I think I failed to find 1-2 totems in the trial, when we hit end-game. Long and behold, NOED. I think the killer secured about 3 kills with that NOED as he hooked the initial survivor right by where the NOED totem was.
If you are looking at the balancing of NOED through the lens of SWF, or at least a party that can communicate - sure, NOED becomes easier to play around. But when you are looking through the lens of, I can't communicate with my teammates, i have NO idea what they've done throughout the trial - it becomes a different story.
Not to mention, as I've briefly said, NOED is an end-game perk, by the time that you reach end-game, most pallets and tiles that were safe to run, are no longer there to run.
Quick edit: the philosophy of just leaving and letting the survivor die, by no fault of their own, but because of an insta-down perk, is also unfair when you consider that you're playing in a team, where the highest value you get is from altruism
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@AsherFrost said:
Basically it comes down to 2 things, from my experience.
1. Survivors feel that once the last gen is finished, they've won. A sudden risk that threatens to reverse that win isn't looked upon kindly, even though it's functionally the same as if they had UB/exponential and used it right at the end when the killer thought he was about to get a multi-kill situation going. (One effectively removes a health state, the other gives one back)
2. Survivors seem to believe that the only counter to the perk is to stop it from activating entirely. You've already seen that here. The idea that you can wait and treat it like every other hex perk doesn't seem to ever actually sync up.
I will add, with the boon meta, noed is less of a threat than ever, and yet also encountered more often. What I mean is, as survivors aren't actually getting rid of totems now, more killers are bringing noed, but in the actual match it's a lot easier to find the lit totem as 2-3 of them are booned, (making them possible to see through walls and floors across the map for the survivors) meaning you've got a 33-50% chance of it being the first non-booned totem you come across. Countering noed has never, ever been easier for solo (the only way I play survivor for years now)
For your second point, i don't agree. Many killers that run the perk, will go as far as taking the risk of a wiggle-off, to hook a survivor right by where the NOED is.
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@jesterkind said:
So, I'm going to lay out my own position first so nobody's engaging under false pretences- while I don't think NOED is necessarily "fine", I think that it is by no means OP, unfair, or unhealthy. I think it's a mediocre, inconsistent perk that provides very little value at a point in the game where you're running up against the clock to actually use that value.
But... that is not the overriding opinion of the community. The community seems pretty split, and a lot of people seem to think NOED is unfair and/or unhealthy. I've never seen a good argument as to why, so that's what I'm asking for here! If you think NOED is unfair, unhealthy, or OP, tell me why!
Specifically I'm looking for a little more detail- I've seen people say, for instance, that NOED "gives unearned kills" or "rewards bad play", but never any explanation of why they think it does either of those. I do genuinely want to know the reasons behind thinking this way, this isn't a bad faith gesture, but I also will probably prod you for a little more explanation if something doesn't seem to make sense.
Let's try and keep it civil, though! No sense chiming in just to state that you don't think NOED is an unhealthy perk.
The reason that NOED is a bad perk - is the same reason that Technician, or Windows are bad perks. They coddle the player too much, where the player is discouraged to actively learn and overcome their weaknesses.
The killer's objective, and gameplay is literally to hunt and hook survivors - with the main goal being to secure the kills. Riddle me this, if you are a good killer, who can secure 1-2 kills before all generators are finished and then secure another or the remaining survivors, what is the need for NOED?
You've utilised the necessary skills to the fullest, and were awarded for it. The presence of NOED, would then become redundant - because you are achieving your goal, whilst also stopping some of the players from even reaching end-game. Same way that if you know the lay-out of tiles, a perk like Windows becomes redundant because you already know where you have to go for the next pallet/window - or better yet, technician becomes completely useless when you've gotten accustomed to hitting skill checks because it's value is completely deteriorated. You only rely on those perks if you aren't fully confident either in your ability to navigate the map in a chase, or in hitting skill checks and until you remove those perks - you will truly never become a better player because what is the reason for it?
I hope you're on the same page as me, up to this point. Imagine if the devs released a perk - that punished you for achieving your objective. Let's say that a resurrect perk existed in the game, we don't have to go deep into the mechanics, but the basic outline is that you can bring a player back from the dead. Would feel awful, knowing that you worked hard chasing that player, securing the kill and then to be punished by a perk that undoes your work - adding more conditions to a game that you felt like you were winning. It would be cheap, and cheated if they were to escape as they didn't deserve to. You outplayed them throughout the trial, and put all you had to secure the 'win', only for it to be undone by a singular perk.
Now flip it onto NOED. You could've ran several chases with the killer, won every single one. Never gotten hooked. Challenged the killer on their gen pressure by completing generators, saving your teammates to ensure that they can see the end of the trial too. You're nearing the completion of the last generator, you pop it, and then you're smacked with NOED. A game that had 0-2 hooks throughout the whole trial has now turned upside down to a singular perk, with you teammates dying on hooks. A game that should've been a 4-man escape, due to the skill gap between those survivors and killer, has now turned into a 2-3 kill game. The killer did very little to deserve those downs, and relied on the survivors to complete THEIR objective so that he can be awarded with a cheap perk.
The perk doesn't only insta-down, but it tilts a pre-existing advantage even further in the killer's favour by having a speedboost, making looping for the survivor dangerous especially if pallets have been used already.
You're not a good player, or becoming a better player if you are conditioning a reliance on a perk.
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Not calling anyone's bluff, but im yet to run into one of these killers - yet to run into a pig, as a matter of fact
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2792855#Comment_2792855
Trapper does not have the power to TELEPORT ahead of the survivor I am chasing to trap that pallet.
Ghostface's instadown means nothing if you cannot land the knife, circling back to my example.
Pig has to chase survivors to down them, as she has not yet mastered the power of the Death Note.
Your examples are bad, and you should feel bad.
Trapper has the power to trap pallets PRIOR to getting into a chase. If a GF can't hit his knives, then that's literally the player's lack of skill, considering that a healthy survivor DOESNT have deadhard - making your 'example' redundant and stupid.
After Pig places a trap on a survivor's head (hell, she doesnt even need to down anyone for that anymore), chasing a survivor is ill-advised especially after Gens have popped.
I think you should be embarrassed for over-simplifying something to try to suit your argument. Every perk has a counter. Not to mention, your change of argument whilst also ignoring that you've only 'provided' 3 killers that may have an issue out of 26 killers. lol, and im the one to be embarrassed?
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2792798#Comment_2792798
I mean, there's a lot of them. I'm sorry the game doesn't make every single one of my daily rituals a Huntress daily. Sometimes you gotta run that Pig, or Ghostface, or Trapper.
Oh, trapper.. the same guy that can trap those very pallets?
Ghostface.. the one that can expose the survivors, making their deadhard redundant?
Pig.. The same killer that you're not encouraged to be chasing survivors with?..
Oh.. no..
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2792771#Comment_2792771
I am chasing a Survivor. They are injured. They are losing distance. They are running towards the pallet. I am guaranteed to make it to them under current distance.
They press E.
Pallet distance gained.
Walk me through how I counter that.
You are disgustingly over-simpifying this game.. lol holy #########, is everyone an m1 killer?????
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2792770#Comment_2792770
I mean, you are only downing more than one if they misplay on top of a misplay. Albeit, it happens more often than you would expect, I guess. Not even counting hook trade attempts.
You are free to disagree, but imo, if a killer has a consistent high pick-rate and a kill-rate, then there is something wrong.
And personally, it's because the killer gets value too easily for very little effort.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2792527#Comment_2792527
You cannot play around Dead Hard. This has been debunked a thousand times over again and I'm tired of repeating myself. If you Dead Hard for distance to ensure a pallet or window there is no counter.
Baiting a deadhard, or outwaiting a deadhard is playing around it.
There is not one singular perk in this game that you can't play around lmao
Ever think that you're 'tired' of 'repeating' yourself is because maybe.. you are wrong?
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@Reshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2792531#Comment_2792531
Only reason he has a high kill rate is his camping ability it second to none. Basically, he's very good at securing his kills. However, getting hooks normally without camping is far harder on bubba. Windows are the bane of your existence, the chainsaw takes a long time to rev, and you can bump on all sort of stuff you should bump on, and of course if you do bump you're stunned for minimum 5 seconds which is like eating a Decisive Strike.
He's a killer that is very good at securing kills, with the possibility of insta-downing multiple survivors with a singular attack. If he was as bad, his kill rate wouldnt be one of the highest.
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@gilgamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2792510#Comment_2792510
Well tbf dead hard is also actually too strong bubba isn't even top 5 killers.
Bubba is one of the most consistent killers tho.
High playrate and one of the highest killrates.
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@WesCravenFan said:
People understand how to play against Bubba. They just hate it, and think "This isn't fun for me!" is a valid argument to attack the way someone else plays and demand BHVR cater to them.
I don't find Dead Hard fun, yet here it remains.
Difference between Deadhard and the playstyle that people abuse with Bubba, is that you can physically play around Deadhard, whereas if you're on the receiving end of that Bubba playstyle, the most you can do is attempt - but you are forcibly taken out of the game.
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@jesterkind said:
I would assume that the Urban Evader also didn't get a good score on the emblem system, if they were hiding for the majority of the game, so I don't think you really did come below them.
Also you don't see another player's emblem score so I'm not sure what you're basing this on?
You can base it off their total score
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784429#Comment_2784429
You're playing at semantics by insisting that holding the game hostage means "the other person physically cannot complete it" and nothing else counts.
But BHVR has said that Survivors hiding for half an hour (but not going AFK to get the crows) and never approaching the generators counts and can be reportable for same.
You're trying to define the term as something that it isn't by ignoring the developers' own statement on what can be reported, and then saying that, therefore, boil over is fine. But it isn't, because the official definition appears to be more along the lines of "unreasonably extending the game time by not completing your objective and denying the other side the opportunity to complete theirs". Being physically impossible is the simplest way, but sabo builds and boil over use with addons and even locker flashlight squads? All count.
Except you are ignoring that the example you provided literally falls under what I’ve been saying.
Refusing to take part in the game by hiding away from the killer is refusing the killer their objective which is why the game is taken hostage.
Players running a build that is meant to make hooking difficult, is not taking the game hostage because you are STILL able to complete your objective. I’m not defending those that run those builds, I’m just saying that what you’re describing is not only counter-able, but is also not what you’re describing it as.
If being forced to slug was taking the game hostage, then slugging as a mechanic would’ve been changed months if not years ago.
Flashlights are shown in lobby. No Mither shows at the start, unbreakable is usable once. Soul guard only works if they’re affected by a hex and most of the hexes require a criteria. Boil over is literally shown if used by the person.
are these games tedious to deal with? Without a doubt. Is it mean to run builds like this? Yes. But don’t call it what it isn’t.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784441#Comment_2784441
Sigh.
- This isn't a playstyle. This is griefing. And no, nobody should have to run certain perks or play certain killers to counter one specific thing that totally breaks the game if it occurs. This was why boon stacking was changed in the PTB. Everything must have counterplay that isn't 'autocounter this or lose at the selection screen'.
- The thing is - you don't know if it's going to be a BO troll comp before the match. You're going to run out of offerings fast, get bored of playing Myers and get stomped by people who aren't running BO, because you have two useless perks.
- Tunneling isn't a thing. That's just how killers are supposed to play, tactically. It's your team's and your own responsibility to distribute damage.
- BHVR are fixing facecamping. The mechanical change is underdoing internal testing.
- There is no perk to counter SWF.
- There are multiple ways to counter 'gen rushing' aside from 'choose x perks'.
- The situation is entirely different. Do you honestly think that griefing is a legitimate playstyle?
- If 'adapt to it' means 'use the same two useless perks every game in expectation that one group might be a troll comp' then you've just made my point for me.
- Yes, it is. We've been over this.
Running BO is not taking the game hostage LOL.
stop omg.
you can STILL hook them.
you can still BLEED them out
you can run pig and make them take hats off. You can play hag and place a trap at the closest point of the loop to a hook and down them. You can avoid dropping by dropping the survivor off the ledge. You can place traps as a trapper to block off a loop. You can play pinhead to literally make chase unbearable.
there are ways to work around this with most killers.
if you have an issue, say that it’s grieving. But don’t sit there and lie saying that it’s taking the game hostage lmao
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784419#Comment_2784419
Doesn't matter whether preventing it or not, keeping a match indefinitely longer for the sake of it will be considered taking the game hostage, I mean even the bodyblocking a survivor will yields ban why you try to defend things even...
Except bodyblocking a survivor is stopping them from completing their objective, which can be considered taking the game hostage.
I’m not sitting here to defend someone taking the game hostage but the situation that is being described is NOT what you’re trying to perceive it as.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784425#Comment_2784425
Yes, it is. But...not quite. They are also preventing the match from ending for you, forcing you to take a penalty or to basically allow the troll.
That's exactly the problem.
They are making it unreasonably difficult to finish the game, win or lose.
No, nobody should have to run specific (and mostly bad) perks, or burn extremely rare offerings to avoid this happening. This is a mechanical issue with the game that needs to be fixed - and I have no idea why you are being apologist for griefing.
No one should have to run things to counter playstyles? Then say that to about 90% of the complaints about perks like Decisive, NOED, and etc.
You have the choice of changing killers, bringing offerings, addons and perks because you are meant to use those options. Use them how you want, but they are meant to be used. If you are refusing to play around that - something that is used as a counter argument for just about ANY OTHER issue in the game, then that is a you problem.
As a survivor, you have to deal with tunneling and face camping. You have to deal with NOED, or other annoying hex perks. You have to deal with the killer's power which sometimes involves insta-downs. As a killer, you have to deal with SWF, you have to deal and respect perks like BT or Decisive. You have to deal with gen-rushing.
This situation is not any different - refusing to adjust to it, becomes a personal problem than a game problem. If you are finding the behaviour to be unsportsmanlike or to be trolling, report and move along.
But it still isn't taking the game hostage.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784419#Comment_2784419
And this is what I mean by semantics.
You've grafted your own definition onto 'holding the game hostage'. I outlined a definition that seems to be closer to what BHVR have laid down in the rules.
You can continue using your own definition, but that's not the definition that has been applied to the game, in this context - and by this, it applies here.
Eh, yes it is.
I'm not playing at semantics. Reasons that mechanics have been brought into the game is because the game was made unplayable for the opposing side. The old hatch mechanic meant that either side couldn't complete their objective. Playing 'hide and seek' meant that the killers couldn't complete their objective.
You aren't held hostage if you can still complete your objective. I don't know why you're resorting to changing the focus of the argument instead of countering what I'm saying to you.
The issue that is being brought up - is SWFs bringing builds that make hooking difficult. I'm telling you that you aren't being held hostage by that because those survivors can still bleed out. You can bring offerings that bring hooks closer. You can play Pyramid Head, who completely voids the mechanic of picking a survivor up. You can play Tombstone Myers which doesn't even involve hooking.
There are ways to play around this, and trying to displace it as 'the game being held hostage' is just a weak excuse.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784388#Comment_2784388
... yes, you can't stop it, but you can prolong it unacceptably far by combining perks and abilities (and SWF teamwork), which is still--as indicated by the devs' own response on a much simpler activity--counted as taking the game hostage.
If the game will only end after half an hour, most of which is spent stood camping one slugged Survivor at a time and knocking them down again when they get back up, that counts.
They bring perks to play that specific style and as I've told YOU, you can bring perks to counter that style.
You can play killers to counter that playstyle, offers, perks, whatever else.
Someone using their perks to pick themselves up, is not taking the game hostage because it isnt stopping YOU from completing the objective. You can still hook them, they can still bleed out and die.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784388#Comment_2784388
This has literally devolved into semantic quibbling.
The spirit of 'holding a match hostage' doesn't mean that it's physically impossible to leave. A killer walling you into a room - you can AFK or DC. A survivor plays hide and seek for an hour? You could potentially find them.
Following the precedent in the rules, all that needs to happen is someone has to deliberately avoid doing their objectives and instead focusing on stalling the game out. This is why 'hide and seek' sulkers are breaking the rules, but bleeding out survivors isn't (although I wish there was a way to prevent this).
Holding the game hostage means that you can't physically do anything to stop it, and it prevents YOU from completing your objective.
Someone running a build that makes hooking difficult is not holding the game hostage, this isn't semantics. You can STILL hook them, you can SLUG them, you can bring perks to help with carrying survivors, you can bring perks that help with stuns, hell, you can even bring offerings to bring hooks closer, or choose a smaller map. You can play killers that can insta-kill (tombstone), you can play killers that void carrying the survivors (pyramid head).
There is no reason to mention any other 'examples' of holding the game hostage when the current example is about running a build that makes hooking more difficult.
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The only thing that I ask for, is VC.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
I have one request that the developers are too afraid to implement, it is quite simple, really, I desire hit validation on vaulting. What seems to be the issue? I wonder why they won't do it. Hmm... So strange. Maybe it would favor the killer too much? Is that it? We just don't understand how servers decide hits didn't happen despite putting powers on cooldown? So weird.
Same way how I can physically be already running and even have Lithe activated but still be hit through the window.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784309#Comment_2784309
No, but if you've built around not staying slugged and not bleeding out, then it is. If the Killer can't hook you, can't bleed you out, can't use moris, or in general effect any lasting change in your status and you refuse to complete your objective and leave, then you're holding the game hostage.
That after over half an hour it might finally end does not actually change that; BHVR has said that playing hide and seek for half an hour but not making any effort to advance the game (because that would be too risky as there's too many gens and you want to get hatch, so wait for the other player to die) counts. Not dying and also not doing gens obviously does too.
You can not physically make a build to prevent bleeding out.
That is literally impossible, as the only thing that STOPS the bleed out meter is being picked up by the killer. You can't be looped forever either, and there are ways to decrease stagnation if a survivor is to wiggle off. All the survivors can do, is prolong bleeding out - but they can't physically prevent it from happening.
Soul Guard only works if they are actively affected by a hex.
No Mither literally is indicated at the start of the match.
Unbreakable is usable only once.
Exponential can be seen/heard.
Stand over their bodies if you can't take them to a hook. Bring offerings that bring hooks closer. Bring perks that decrease stun duration or wiggle effects. Bring offerings that take you to a map that you prefer.
The survivors CANNOT hold the game hostage by doing a build that makes hooking more difficult because it is STILL possible. The implication that a game is taken hostage, is that you physically cannot do anything against the situation - which isn't true.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784351#Comment_2784351
Because there is a way to avoid that mechanics.
That involves doing what? Actually the opposite?
The only true way that taking the game hostage existed was back when the old hatch mechanic existed.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784313#Comment_2784313
Considering how they can call people hiding in locker indefinite times "taking game hostage", using soul guard and boil over abuse to stay in match for unimaginable amount of time will surely be considered taking game hostage.
There are mechanics that prevent people from just camping out in lockers, so how exactly is it taking a game hostage?
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784316#Comment_2784316
I disagree. You can run some pretty cool data collection experiments in DBD. It hurts that they don't have an API that allows us to call data by user, but you can do it manually. You can eliminate SSBM bias by playing 50 games on every killer extremely sweaty before starting your data collection efforts, and then you can eliminate further variables by isolating and using high value, generic perks that address current metas across the entire roster. You can reduce feast or famine results by excluding NoED and certain iridescent add ons. You can exclude games where DC's tamper with the actual outcome of a match and you can VOD everything to gather extra statistics at the end that will allow you to sort and present the data more accurately.
You don't have to do something perfect for me to respect it. You just have to do something not utterly lazy that yields no valuable conclusions.
I dont see why you have to respect it.
The data is still data, you are free to criticise it, but it doesn't make it any lesser.
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@CleanseThis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767827#Comment_2767827
The data you just posted is considered "bad" data. It's completely archaic in it's findings and doesn't take into account massive variables IE: hooks vs kills. Even during the Q&A the devs said Nurse wasn't the worse killer, but that contradicts what the stats show.
The stats dont show that she is the worst killer - the stats show that she is one of the most diversified killers in the game, which results in her lower kill-rate.
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@Mr_K said:
Grade only reflects time played not level of skill.
But it also reflects one's experience with the game.
You don't JUST pip up because you play the game for 5 hours a day, you still have to accomplish certain criteria to reach Iri 1.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784237#Comment_2784237
I stand by what I said, the person I responded to spoke with hyperbole and misrepresented reality. Given that this is a thread about statistics, people should be culpable for that nonsense.
Edit: This doesn't mean SSBM isn't a ######### show. We know it is. My whole contention with the OP's nonsense is that he's not informed about what makes a statistically significant, or accurate, sample size. He makes 0 effort to control variables and his data is largely junk. The fact that he speaks in absolutisms about things he clearly misunderstood is just icing.
I think you're reading into the intentions of OP far too much.
OP recorded some stats, over his last 100 games, based on those statistics and then the comparison between them and someone else's statistics, he made his conclusion. Is it perfect? no, but you will never get a perfect conclusion on statistics that have far too many variables to begin with. So trying to reduce the argument down to that, is pretty redundant
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784303#Comment_2784303
If a survivor decide to not do objectives and instead lock killers indefinitely in match, it's basically taking a game hostage.
Eh, no it's not.
If the survivors aren't doing generators - then they aren't going to escape, which means that gives you the perfect option to kill. Whether that's via bleeding them out on the ground, or whether it's via hooking.
So, no, you still have options as a killer.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2782073#Comment_2782073
"Eventually" dying on the ground half an hour or more later and then leaving like they always could once the timers get too low due to multiple people doing this and getting up again is the exact scenario that's being criticised, yeah. It's the troll squads again.
And taking the game hostage by not doing gens and forcing a frustrating time waste where all your downs and hook attempts mean nothing.
Forcing a slug is still not the game being taken hostage.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2781982#Comment_2781982
Explain to me then - why should survivors be able to take the game hostage unless (and sometimes even when) they bring two specific, mostly useless perks?
Why do you think this is good game design?
I'll wait.
Trying to save themselves from being hooked, isn't taking a game hostage..
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2781572#Comment_2781572
I tried this with a mate yesterday.
Running Agitation+Iron Will.
RPD library = still completely unhookable.
Bring map offerings yourself then?
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784063#Comment_2784063
You like blight?
Yeah, I enjoy playing against him and nurse lol
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2734741#Comment_2734741
Well, now we understand where your issue is. You have a misinformed view of the game and streamers. Otz does not steamroll every match. He has multiple matches where survivors walk all over him.
Statistically, this isn't true though. He may have matches where he loses, but they are a drastically smaller percentage. This is not accounting for matches where he is being stream-sniped, or encountering cheaters/throwers.
I'm not saying that he steamrolls, because he has games which are close calls and where he actually has to put himself together to secure kills, but the man's statistics speak for him.
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@ChiSoxFan11 said:
I've been keeping survivor stats for a little while now, with approaching 200 matches on record now (the huge majority of these matches have been either viewable on Twitch or YT over time). These have been a mixture of 2-person SWF groups, 4-person SWF groups, and solo matches.
My personal escape rate (excluding one night where my SWF team threw during the Winter Event doing goofy Snowman things, and I spent a whole night running a goofy build to make Power Struggle work) has been slightly over 60%, with the "team" as a whole just slightly under that at 59%. And while I'm a decidedly decent survivor, I'm nowhere near great at that part of the game.
What does that mean? Very little -- it's small sample size, just as the OP's 100 matches (or even Otz's matches are -- comparing our results with his would be like comparing our basketball skills with an in-his-prime Michael Jordan -- he's arguably in the top 1% of players, so what happens to him will never be typical of the majority of the playerbase). The OP's numbers are an interesting snapshot, but much like my numbers would be, it's such a tiny representation of what actually happens in literally tens of thousands of matches a day, it's not statistically relevant -- simply one person's brief experiences.
For the record, I DO agree that SBMM isn't working properly, as I firmly believe that it prioritizes queue times over everything else, particularly during peak hours, which is exactly what it shouldn't be doing. The devs have mentioned that they intend to tweak SBMM in the future -- it does desperately need changes (I think it's slightly better than the busted matchmaking we had before, but it's FAR from perfect at this point and needs work).
I do believe that if an average player's statistics start to align with someone who drastically spends more hours on the game - as a form of career, that presents a bigger fault.
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@Zozzy said:
Please, for the love of god buff the other killers! So sick of going against Blight because everything else is so weak :(
It doesn't help that they all run the same build with alch and crow addon..
I'm not saying nerf him ( do fix the exploits though) but to stop nerfing everyone else. There have been no twins, myers wraith, Trapper, Trickster, freddy, legion, demo, Ghost face, spirit or Trickster.
One doctor 4 clowns 2 bubbas (basement.. yay.), 2 hags 1 plague, 2 pigs, 1 oni, 4 Nemesis a bunch of Huntress and at least one of the rest.. But blight is by far the most common, showing up roughly every second or third game, if not back to back.
He is getting boring just because he is so common and they usually run the same build. It is made even more frustrating when your team mates are so sick of him that they DC the moment they hear the rush or just go afk.
I know i am typing words at a brick wall and they will probably nerf Pig, slinger and Twins again next chapter, But i just need to vent at the void that caused this
I am actually starting to feel sorry for survivor mains if this is the norm and the killers i play are the relief between the blight madness.
I wish i was getting the games you're getting.. lollllllllllllll
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@EntitySpawn said:
2K 2E will never be a good and balanced match especially in my eyes, it shows an outcome but nothing that happened to get there.
I understand hooks dont paint a full picture but they paint a better one. Hooks will always show more than kills, someone who can do many many chases (downs, mindgames, outplays) etc.. show more skill over the other players
Patrick's one and only arguments that had some standing was the "is it a win, or a loss" well how about a tie/draw?
This game is a 4v1, it will never be perfectly balanced and that's just how it is but holding an asymmetric game to a similar view to the 4v4 equal games is a mistake.
My idea, balance on hooks (mostly) individual hooks =1point and a kill=2points. This way someone who can 3 hook someone and get a kill gets far more than someone just face camping.
You can decide what is a win, draw and lose. In Patrick's example 8hooks can be a draw, anything more will increase your rank (the more hooks the more you go up) and anything less would be a loss (lesser hooks mean a bigger loss)
In an unbalanced game having a draw is acceptable, both sides can play incredibly well.
In this game 3hooks on 1 person is a kill, in hockey you dont score 3 times to get 1 point. Your "shots" are downs, none are rewarded, killers arent rewarded for getting a down. Yes you're downing (taking a shot in hockey) but it doesnt mean you'll score, however hooking someone should be a score, and a kill should be a bonus like in other sports that provide more points for a better "play"
Edit: dont ban me for a discussion, no disrespect here at all just a better view or at least in my eyes.
Simply put, the system should work as push + pull.
Clearly the game is capable of calculating the length of a chase, so why not award/take away points.
In my eyes, every player in a match should start with a neutral amount of points (say the baseline was 1000), you are then either deducted or rewarded points based on the actions you take.
- As a survivor, if you have a short chase (as the game calculates chase time), you will be deducted points, but if you have a longer chase, the game will award you points.
- Taking protection hits resulting in a safe unhook rewards points, whereas an unsafe hook that leads to a down deducts points.
- Not having a certain amount of gen progression results in deduction
But as a killer,
- Being in hook proximity after a certain time, starts deducting your points, distance from hook x time around the hook dictates how much is taken - However entering a chase with someone will slow down that deduction
- Downing after unhooked player straight from hook also results in deduction
- Having a short chase will reward points, whereas a prolong chase will start to dwindle points rewarded and eventually go into deduction.
Something to make people more responsible over their actions, and thus it becomes reflected in their rank.
Suddenly, you don't have Bubba with a high play and kill rate because he is a camp/tunnel killer.
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@Sluzzy said:
If anything the perk is too situational and not really helpful in most situations. It went from being completely useless to maybe helping in rare situations. I QUIT using it! I used it for 3 days and only got off a shoulder one time. These kind of perks are HORRIBLE when it comes to sheer luck.
Killer complaints about Boil Over are not justified when they say they can’t rarely do their objective in rare situations. It is hypocritical for killers to complain about Boil Over when they bring in the most OP things in the game. Multiple slowdown perks that “prevents” the survivor from doing the objective. You know what killers tell me when I complain about Ruin? You have perks for that. Well, I have news for killers: You have perks to deal with Boil Over. Use them. Oh, or is that only for survivors?
Take off your sweaty builds and use Iron Grasp. You do not have to use the same perks every game. 3 and 4 slowdown perks are completely unnecessary. If you do not like Boil Over, bring a perk to counter it. This is what is told to survivors when they don’t like certain things. “Bring a map, bring Counter Force, ….”
And lastly, Boil Over is no stronger on a SWF than Ruin is on an OP killer like Blight. I would say Boil Over is still weak and too situational.
I played against a Blight that used the new overbuffed Dead Man’s Switch and Scourage Hook: Pain. Nobody could do the objective. He easily won with several gens remaining because the survivors COULD NOT do the objective. This is beyond broken but lets sweep this under the rug and talk about Boil Over?
We need to stop balancing around high profile survivors in edge cases and leaving broken killers and perks unchecked. Killers win way too much and it is unhealthy for the game.
agree tbh
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2780272#Comment_2780272
FNAF is far too polarizing to be in DBD.
I despise it almost entirely based off of its community, there are plenty of others that agree with me as well.
Not to play devils advocate..
But you have killers with cosmetics such as a pink elephant, a chicken costume, 'ice' queen concepts. big bunnies, anime school girl, a 'devil's outfit, angsty and cosplay skins.
Using that argument is pretty redundant imo
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@DomoBear19 said:
He is a child serial killer trapped in a rotting old bunny suit (He is still alive inside I think) who dies in a fire in fnaf 6 which would be perfect for narrating him into DBD with lots of potential if given the chance. So why are people so opposed when you have edgy children with a knife (legion) and a Korean pop star who can throw glass knives? I've also seen people complain about op perks in peoples concept ideas but that could easily be fixed by the DBD mods who have some experience with balancing perks.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/NDMMUUNE3T1K/springtrap-dbd.png
To be honest, aside from everything - what would even be his power? To me, the characters of FNAF have hardly any flavour or personality to them. They all produce jumpscares after getting close to you, the only exception being that some can run.
But again, HOW does that translate into DBD?
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@El_Gingero said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2779061#Comment_2779061
Hmm I think it’s fine for such a large and strong map to have some kind of a dead zone tbh.
Nah, especially if one had to go there to do a generator
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@fogdonkey said:
Don't mix politics into this game
I was not using this to bring politics - I'm just saying that regions deserve better representation and not to be summed up by the one country that did so much harm, historically and in the present.
It'd be the same way as slapping a native skin onto one of the american characters, which had no mention of being native nor have any intentions of exploring them being native.
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@GannTM said:
Pretty sure it was always like that? Nothing new about that.
Nah, in PTB and i think around release, that area of the map would mostly be a deadzone
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@Dionysus42 said:
I noticed a second jungle gym sometimes spawning at the back of the map (extreme opposite of where shack is), where before there were a bunch of low fences every game. Did they really buff a map that was already survivor-sided?
TBH, the back of the map behind the main building upon release used to literally 90% of the time be a deadzone, not even a pallet or anything to play around, so I can understand why
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2778900#Comment_2778900
Yes.
You'd think it would average out to about 1 in 4 games, but we've had stretches of 10 games where we've never seen it and then 5 games in a row with it in play.
Strongly depends on the time of day, from experience.
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@ShinobuSK said:
Blight, Nurse, Huntress and for some unholy reason also Bubba
Not really surprising. In the stats, he had one of the highest pickrates and highest kill rates.
Pretty easy to climb MMR on a killer that you can safely facecamp 2 kills with
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2778855#Comment_2778855
So far, in my 289 games, we've seen NOED at a rate of about 26%.
26% is still a pretty huge number considering the number of perks.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Do you think she is well designed? Fun to play as / VS? Good / meh tier killer?
I think she is a bit hard to play, that being said - I am almost an exclusive survivor player and only tried her in customs with friends.
I do think that she is a bit frustrating to play against, but given my experience playing her - I do think she is hard to grasp, so I don't complain too much.
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@wewantbetterfun said:
None.
Reach a pallet/window they don't deserve extending the loop by 2 gens? removed
Killer outplaying you and you get your jail free card? removed
dead hard hit validation abuse (there's no way with the amount of validation killers get you'd get this often exhausted on the ground) removed
using different exhaustion perks so at least when they don't reach a pallet/window they don't deserve the chase simply ends
If dead hard alone would be removed killers would be easily nearly half as hard as it currently is, survivors running dead ahrd are so insecure about their looping skills they simply cannot live without their jail free skilless perk, I once played with some good survivors who always ran dead hard and we played a kill your friends and removed perk, they couldn't last more than 2 loops without dead hard
If you are a survivor constantly running dead hard, try to live without your second chance perk.
- 1. If a chase is costing you more than 2 generators (assuming that both are popped simultaneously at the start of the match), then you have bad map/gen pressure and are greeding the chase yourself.
- 2. The same way that NOED is a jail free card? where you've been outplayed the whole match but catch a kill because of this - agree?
- 3. This is the same frustration that a survivor gets when playing against someone abusing latency. How many times does can one get hit over a vault that they're no longer at??
- 4. Seems like you just think survivors don't deserve to win a chase tbh.
If DH were to be removed, it would change not much for experienced survivors because those survivors already have the game sense and experience, to work around the removal of that perk. Good survivors generally won't run the same builds constantly either - because they will be competent with several builds or perks - simplifying the survivor side down to 'carried by dh' makes you just look salty with no coherent argument, or reflection on why DH is so effective against yourself.