Skitten56
Skitten56
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What I like about the proposed changes:
- Her kit is still focused around tracking. I love the idea of Global Detection Power, and her being an info killer. The more reasons to use and look at the tracker the more unique she will feel to other killers.
- The removal of hindered, haste, and injury from getting scanned. This will make her much more enjoyable to go against for survivors since she can't counter a tile by just dropping a drone alone.
- This should be accompanied by an increase strength in information provided when a survivor is detected, ideally by having them tracked on the scanner for a much longer duration. Otherwise stealth drones will be pretty weak.
- Perhaps have survivors get Claw Trapped when scanned and bring back pallets breaking when a Claw Trapped survivor vaults them? Would be a useful way to keep her power focused on information while still giving her chase strength in the event Drone Propulsion is not used in the final draft.
Changes or adjustments I would like to see to the proposed changes:
Drone Propulsion:
- Survivors hit with Drone Propulsion should also receive Claw Traps. Hitting a survivor which is injured with Drone Propulsion should only apply Deep Wound and a Claw Trap, but not down the survivor. The Claw Traps will provide information and/or debuffs to offset the inability to down survivors.
- This avoid a likely slugging issue while also making Claw Traps useful and still a part of her kit.
- Claw Trap can persist until the survivor is downed or be time limited, depends on debuffs applied to Claw Trapped survivors and the strength of add-ons which affect them.
- Drone Propulsion in general I dislike. I would rather her remain a Information and Trap based killer. There can be no denying that her previous versions were frustrating for survivors but that doesn't mean it is impossible to make her a fun trap killer or that she needs to become like most of the other killers. As many have said, making her another dash killer is unappealing.
Scanning and Claw Traps:
- As Scanning a survivor will be much weaker and less of a threat than before, I think a survivor should have to be not moving at all to avoid a scan by the line; crouching and moving should reveal them.
- I see this as balanced since the stealth drones are much weaker and a survivor getting scanned during chase is not of much use for the killer unlike before. Survivors can already run around the scan lines fairly easily, even more so now that they will be even slower, so some adjustment to compensate all of this I feel is fair.
- I really would not like to see Claw Traps just completely removed from her kit if possible. I've suggested multiple ways Claw Traps can be used in this new version of her power which I do not believe would be oppressive while still useful. I do hope BHVR can find a way to keep this feature.
- The removal of Claw Traps and how it would affect Expired Batteries Add-on. This add-on was very nice to use as it gave a weaker version of Lethal Pursuer as an add-on while also making use of her power and using the scanner. Would hate for this add-on's functionality to disappear.
Alternative Power Suggestion:
- I personally would like to see Drone Propulsion ditched and instead have a system when you can send trap drones out to guard Gens, Totems, Chests, etc. (Similar to how Hound Masters can send her dog to a specific gen). These drones would block survivors from interacting with the object until they complete the hacking mini-game. Once a trap drone is hacked, Skull Merchant receives an audio cue; this allows her to try and see where the now missing drone was.
- This serves 2 purposes. It provides Skull Merchant with information and allows her to use them as traps and info in creative ways as well as giving a little bit of slowdown. It also gives survivors more interactivity with her power without it being oppressive.
- Failing the mini-game should give a Claw Trap at most; the trap drone is NOT intended to be a way to block interaction progress, just a way slow down survivors and get information as killer.
- If this is still to weak for a killer power, perhaps after hacking one of these drones have the survivor affected by a short duration speed debuff to all gen, chest and totem interactions (Perhaps done through Claw Traps?). Alternatively, have Claw Traps break pallets again as mentioned above.
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@MoZo said:
I really hope they do put the firecrackers and festive toolboxes back in the bloodweb but I doubt it. Sad I won’t get any of the festive toolboxes on my nea since I started maining her after the 2023 moonlight burrow event and I only have 1 Chinese firecracker on her because I stole it from my sacrificed teammate a while ago lol.
It is really a shame since the Festive Toolboxes and firecrackers are my favorite survivor items. I really hope they bring back the event someday since it was my favorite one.
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Yeah the UI is still utterly awful compared to what we had before they reworked it. I really hope they will take some of these suggestions into consideration.
Increasing the number of presets from 3 to 5 would do wonders though and imo should be the #1 priority.
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@DeBecker said:
I am even more concerned about Midwich rework. I cant even imagine of how they gonna make this map worse than it already is, but i have no doubt that they will make it happen. Theyre just terribly bad at making balancing decisions.
Yeah as a killer main, I was thinking they couldn't make Haddonfield any worse for balance, and yet BHVR somehow managed it by making it so killer sided I feel bad a lot of the time. It is more killer sided than it ever was survivor sided now which is just absurd.
I have no faith in their map reworks and actually dread the swamp rework. Swamp maps are not too bad atm but I'm sure they will make them awful.
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Not all perks need to be strong in isolation, nor should they be. Perks must be balanced around how they will perform when combined with other perks. Almost no one plays this game running only 1 or 2 perks after all. In this regard I believe Game Afoot performs its duty quite well and doesn't need significant changes. It is a perk that shines and is interesting when combined with others. I see no issue with this.
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I just wish they would put more cosmetics in the bundles that are from past rifts that have not reached the store yet. Normally they come to the store about a year later, but there are a few cosmetics I've been waiting on for over 2 years now.
It feels pretty bad not to have access to a cosmetic I wanted just because I wasn't able to play for a rift, and then have to wait literally years without any idea of when it will come to the store. It would be nice if BHVR had a consistent schedules for this or was more open about the process.
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@scottydoggie said:
I think the mode has been well received enough for it to be a permanent addition to the game
I disagree with those who say this will “kill” the game… Far from it, this is the breath of fresh air we needed. Nearly 100k players on DBD steam during 2v8’s launch, with many veterans (myself included) returning to check this out. It can only get better the more they improve it
1v4 was becoming stale, and until 2v8 came along the previous game modes just weren’t fun nor successful.. this is the one myself & many others want to keep2v8 will become even more stale than 1v4 once the novelty wears off. There just isn't nearly as much strategy or mechanics to work with. 2v8 is fine for a casual mode but for most who like to engage with the game at a deeper level, it will quickly become boring.
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Hot take here, direct UVX hits are fine as they are. Making your shots land properly and not hit directly part of the skill of playing Unknown and also part of survivor counterplay to deal with a ranged AOE attack.
I do hope they don't change him too much though because as you said, they are in a good spot.
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@turksmall236 said:
Optional prestige is bad, killers would know you're hiding it for a reason. Keep it hidden for everyone
If it is optional, it needs to be opt-in for showing it and not opt-out at the very least. That way killers would not suspect every person with prestige hidden as the majority would keep it as is.
I agree with BHVR though. Just keep it hidden until the endgame. Or add a p100 cosmetic recolour reward to show off with to make up for it; many have been asking for a p100 reward anyways.
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It has always been my opinion that 5v5 would be a much better mode than 2v8. Since it would essentially be 2 games happening at once, it wouldn't have to balance a whole new system for the most part, or deal with many of the issues that plague 2v8 atm. It could be competitive but also fun for both sides. 2v8 is somewhat boring due to lack of survivor gameplay, diversity of killers, and queue times. With 5v5 they could keep perks and traditional gameplay the same assuming it doesn't become a buggy mess that requires classes.
Shoutout to VIP mode which if done correctly would also be an incredibly fun mode.
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Instead of buffing ambush (very boring and not unique power cause many killers have similar ability)
Strongly disagree with you. Her ambush power is incredibly fun if you get good with it and learn how to do things like moondash. Her power is unique from Oni Billy and Chucky in that it gives you such more more freedom of movement. To me ambush is what defines her power just as much as RBTs do.
bear traps. For now they almost useless and make no threat or slowdown at all.
Strongly disagree again. They provide a ton of slowdown. Survivors not only have to run around the map which takes time, they also have to interact with 12 boxes in total without add-ons. This is very useful slowdown for the killer. Not only that, if the Pig wants to spend time to pressure survivors with a trap, the killer can have a good chance of making them die to it. This comes at the cost of reduced pressure but that is the balancing trade off.
To get a RBT headpop with the current mechanics either the survivor misplays by wasting time with an active trap or Pig has to actually pressure them. Some might think this is bad but it is actually healthy for the game and encourages good skillbased gameplay. Survivors shouldn't die to pure RNG and killers shouldn't get effortless kills. It is a delicate balance and BHVR has gotten it inot a good spot atm.
In my opinion, the Pig buffs BHVR has recently given us have gone 100% the right way. They can't buff her RBT directly due to the balance I mentioned in the previous paragraph. They can't buff her ambush directly too much without making it too strong and giving it free hits due to its high freedom of movement. The only bad thing was when BHVR tried to lower the duration of the trap timer which would have been a massive nerf. Since they rolled that back there is no big issue I have with how they have handled Pig lately. It would be great if they increase her crouch movement speed to 4.0 m/s as an extra QoL but I wouldn't support direct dash buffs or RBT buffs right now. Buffs need to be more subtle which advanced Pig players can use in higher MMRs to get an edge but won't make her oppressive or have a large impact in lower MMRs.
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I much prefer how Myers currently has a lot of variety due to how their add-ons work. This makes them a fun and versatile killer to play as due to all the options. It almost makes Myers fun to go against since as a survivor you have to do some detective work during the match to try and figure out what kind of Myers they are and adjust the strategy accordingly, which adds to the enjoyment.
As such, I would rather the mori aspect of his power stay within add-ons, but have those add-ons readjusted to better reflect the current state of the game. While Iri-Tombstone is generally fine, Purple-Tombstone Piece can allow Myers to quickly remove a survivor from the game.
A good solution would be to make Tombstone Piece have some combination of the following: Either make it more restrictive, require more stalk charges / reduced stalk efficiency, or make it so that in order to mori a specific survivor that survivor needs to have been personally stalked for x amount of progress. Perhaps maybe even just Remove Tombstone Piece add-on altogether while keeping Judith's Tombstone add-on as it is.
I feel like such changes would remove a lot of the frustration around Tombstone Myers, such as getting mori due to bad teammates or having someone out of the game at 4-5 gens.
Tombstone Myers isn't that strong if survivors know how to counter him such as lockers or staying on gens to force hooks. Tombstone just needs some tweaks to make him feel a bit more fair.
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I think the buffs to Pig did help a lot actually. You are correct that to get full value from it, you need to run 2 add-ons; anyone playing ambush dash Pig likely would have been using those 2 anyways though. I play ambush dash Pig most of the time and have absolutely gotten a lot of hits I would not have before the update.
I don't really think her ambush can be buffed much more, unless to take away from add-ons and add them back into basekit. Pig's dash has a high degree of freedom of movement, and if buffed too much can make it very hard to counter leading to more hold W gameplay. If they increase the speed during dash or duration then it would become a bit too strong and often feel like free hits instead of skill. This could make her less fun to play for many.
If you are not playing ambush dash Pig then you still get the nice QoL buffs which might not be game changing but will still be nice to have. It is very likely that BHVR doesn't want to buff her headpop RBT gameplay at all, and I would agree with that. Her traps is in a good spot balance wise atm. If BHVR buffs them more and too many would die to unfair RNG, but nerf them and they become nothing more than slowdown. Right now they are in a good spot of either requiring Pig to spend time to ensure the headpop which allows the other survivors to counter by doing gens, or the survivor wastes time and then doesn't have enough to get the trap off with 4 searches. TLDR: To get a headpop either the survivor misplays or Pig has to actually pressure them, which is healthy for the game.
For now I think the best way to buff Pig is with small but meaningful changes since her kill rate is likely where BHVR wants it. Such changes would allow higher MMR skilled Pigs to get more use out of her power while likely not affecting the lower MMRs too much where Pig is much stronger as a killer.
For example, it would be a great change to increase her crouch movement speed to 4.0 m/s. Small buffs to how long it takes to charge ambush or perhaps removing the debuff on Last Will would be good too.
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Unpopular opinion but 2v8 was not that great. It was mostly popular due to novelty, the ability for killers to play together, and the fact it was in demand for a long time. There are 2 main issues for me with 2v8 that BHVR needs to address.
- The actual mode has reduced survivor gameplay, in a game where many survivors already say the gameplay is stale. Removing the ability to get flashlight or pallet saves was a big mistake. BHVR should have had remote hooking but with a 1sec delay after picking up in order to avoid the issues of the anniversary event. The lack of killer variety isn't great either.
- The queue times are horrible for killers and the standard mode. I actually have mostly stopped playing dbd until the event ends because of how long it takes to get a match. I'm sure there are many others like me.
A lot of the issues with 2v8 BHVR can fix in time but they will absolutely need to address them, especially if they intend this to be a permanent mode at some point. I personally would rather have BHVR invest in 5v5 or VIP modes since those have always been the most interesting to me.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767475#Comment_3767475
Actually I did not try iri tape, because if someone runs around and just turns off TV after TV …, there is basically nothing I can do against it. So I refused to play it. I just don‘t want to have even longer cooldowns and of corse the los of condemned. Maybe if this addon hadn’t replaced my beloved iri tape, I would feel differently. I will try it the next days and tell you how it went.
I do think it is unfair to say an add-on is trash without at least giving it a solid chance.
if someone runs around and just turns off TV after TV …, there is basically nothing I can do against it.
Again many repeat this line of thinking when saying it is a bad add-on. While it is certainly not ideal as the debuff adds an extra 14 seconds, you will find that many times survivors never take advantage of this. The reality is that this fear is way overblown. The average survivor does not know all of Onryo's add-ons, and the ones they do know tend to be the popular ones use to help her condemn power.
In my experience the average survivor will not grab tapes unless they have some condemn, or they really don't want you to teleport out of a TV. I was doing the Iri-tape - Ring Drawing condemn challenge the other day and even when I wanted survivors to grab tapes with Iri-tape, more often than not they just refused to do so even if it was the best tactical decision. In general survivors will want to do gens. They will grab a tape the first time but once they realize they are not getting any condemn, they tend to ignore it.
Now when a survivor does go from TV to TV turning them off, it is a problem that you need to shutdown quickly. Given the nature of Iri-tape, if you are paying attention they will only get a few TVs off before you realize what they are doing, and you will know which TVs due to the lack of an aura. This means it is relatively easy to find them and cut them off in order to put a stop to it. Unless basically the whole team is doing this, which I have not had happen yet as survivors would rather work gens, you don't have to worry much.
If you do try the add-on, it is important to keep the survivors too busy to bother with tapes. Keeping up pressure is important and I think you have to play hit an run with the add-on since such a playstyle synergizes well with it. If they try to rush gens while injured, you should be able to snowball. If survivors are too busy trying to make gen progress, do heals or maybe even totems, then they won't bother with doing the hard counter of going from TV to TV. I recommend Nurses Calling as it allows you to interrupt resets in order to keep up the pressure which is probably the biggest threat.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767217#Comment_3767217
the killer lacks ability apply pressure on the team. One of aspect that global condemn did is made all survivors do a secondary objective because of passive on condemn build-up. This gave Sadako map presence and map pressure. that is why slugging wasn't needed in V2.
In Version 1, Sadako lack ability to have map presence and map pressure because of local televisions. This was ok because the killer would slug players. Slugged survivors cannot do generators thus slowing the game down. This version lacks global condemn build-up in regular sized maps and Slug pressure. It has neither of map pressure tools for killer to succeed.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767231#Comment_3767231
I agree.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767354#Comment_3767354
there was no attempts to weaken the 1st reworked version. as result, saying something is difficult to balance with 0 attempt to balance it is invalid complaint.
there was no attempts to weaken the 1st reworked version. as result, saying something is difficult to balance with 0 attempt to balance it is invalid complaint.
The main issue with her 1st rework is that it was very hard to balance due to the nature of how they changed her power for the 1st rework. Global condemn meant that anyone not countering her properly and decent at chase would quickly get condemned, and it was also possible for Sadako to keep TVs off to make removing condemn even harder. The global condemn made her very strong and oppressive against soloq, newer and casual players, and generally anyone not a higher MMR survivor. At the same time, the way they changed her power, it was relatively easy for higher MMR skilled and coordinated survivors to counter her power and shut her down.
The result of this dynamic meant that any changes to her power to make her less oppressive against for less skilled survivors in return meant that Onryo would be powerless against the skilled survivors. Meanwhile if BHVR wanted to buff her to be more competitive against these high MMR survivors, she would be even more OP against the lower MMR survivors. These issues for balance between different skill levels of survivors is linked by the very nature of her power.
As a result, BHVR could not buff or nerf either aspect without making the situation worse, at least not without making significant changes to how her power worked. They could have for example removed how breaking a tape worked or the condemn stacks associated with it in order to help the lower MMRs but that would make her super weak against skilled players. They could buff the threat of condemn for skilled survivors that knew to just hold a tape and loop her like a m1 killer, but then she would just destroy the average player even harder.
Rather than try and fix what would take a lot of effort for a rework that many survivors and Onryo mains did not enjoy, BHVR decided to instead try again with something closer to the original Onryo. I personally am very happy with the result and 100% believe their decision to give her a 2nd rework was better for Onyro and better for the game as a whole.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767160#Comment_3767160
However old Ring Drawing can't return, at least not without the nerf to make it not work on slugged survivors. No one really wants the slug condemn strategy to come back. With the QoL buffs she has gotten across the board though she shouldn't really need to rely on such a playstyle anymore to be effective for the average player.
They could give it a debuff like other addons have for slugs. For example survivors get unbreakable or recover faster from the dying state around a TV. I never faced a Sadako that slugged all the time back then. Most of them played her like me for mobility and condemned was secondary. Sadako is also not that strong, that she would need this nerfed again. When you look at huntress and twins that are different story strength wise. Overall I would be happy to get the version without slugs back too.
I doubt they will bring old Iri-tape back though, and I am okay with that if they keep the current Iri-tape. However if they did that, they would need to give her a few more condemn buffs so she could have some of the power comparable to old Iri-tape. I think instead of 16m, 18m or 20m condemn range basekit would be important.
Current iri tape is terrible. It should be a grey meme addon without the longer cooldowns. I want my loud noice back that turns half the TVs back on (old iri tape). This addon was the coolest one in th whole game.
I think it would be good to increase the range of condemned to 24m, 28m or 32m basekit too
I don‘t understand what is wrong with slugging. It is perfectly fine as strategy and slowdown. The only thing that is not fine for me is bleeding someone out while having everyone slugged and standing in front of them.I also don't think slugging itself is wrong, however a lot of the playerbase does not support or like anyone who slugs. While many are okay with strategic slugging like to bait flashlight saves or when a hook gets sabo'ed, going into a match with slugging from the start as a strategy is heavily frowned upon. I doubt BHVR will return any mechanics which encourage such behavior.
I want my loud noice back that turns half the TVs back on (old iri tape). This addon was the coolest one in th whole game.
Old Iri-tape was so fun. That noise is just nostalgic for me and I'd love to have it back myself. I was so sad when they took it away from us and still miss it.
Current iri tape is terrible. It should be a grey meme addon without the longer cooldowns.
Going to have to strongly disagree with you there, though they should remove the cooldown debuff. I assure you this add-on is nowhere near trash level. I see so many other Onyro mains repeat this over and over, but how many of them have actually given the add-on and honest chance with a build that supports it?
The current Iri-tape is actually one of her stronger add-ons. It is not on the level of Iri-Remote Control, Bloody Fingernails, or Videotape Copy. A good condemn build will of course be stronger due to the nature of condemn and her power. However in spite of that, Iri-tape is still better than at least half of her other add-ons if you know how to take advantage of its strengths. I think many just say it is trash without giving it a chance due to the downside of having no condemn pressure and survivors being able to use the add-on against you if you fail to keep the pressure on them.
It is a challenging add-on to adapt to if you are not used to it, and is certainly not for newer Onryo players. It is also not an add-on for those who find non-condemn playstyles boring. However if you love her teleport mobility and macro play, while also enjoy playing hit and run, I think you will find it to be a very fun and strong add-on. Take advantage of that insanely boosted mobility and map pressure to destroy survivors. I 3-4k consistently with it and I believe any experienced Onryo main will also get the same results if they know how to play her as such.
I challenge you and anyone else who says iri-tape is trash now to actually use it in a few matches with Bloody Fingernails and a hit and run build. Learn how to use the add-on to its strengths while having fun with it, and if you learn to use it properly I believe you will find it to be much better than you expect.
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@glitchboi said:
Passive condemn is what I wish for the most. It made Sadako far more scary to go against. 1.0 Sadako with 3.0 buffs needs to return.
I would love to see passive condemn again. I don't like how currently survivors get rewarded for turning off TVs by having it remove condemn without a threat as well as denying her mobility. 1.0 was best because there was a risk or punishment to denying both aspects of her power.
Passive condemn can be a powerful thing however and in order to balance it, I do think BHVR would need to remove the global condemn lite of her current version. I have no issue with this myself but I think many others would object.
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@jesterkind said:
What Sadako needs is to go back to her most recent version before this one.
That was a power that actually functioned, had clear and coherent counterplay, and had reasonable versatility to allow different builds and tactics from the killer. The elements actually meshed together, the survivors had an actual reason to mess with tapes, and she wasn't really all that strong— but to be fair she never has been and currently isn't, so that's not all that much of a concern for any version. It also didn't really have anything to abuse, save for a few problematic addons that would need to be reworked.
I don't usually go in for this kind of rhetoric, because it isn't usually reasonable, but in this case I really feel inclined to: There was no reason to actually rework her and it seems a lot like BHVR only thought to because of complaints, many of which were extremely questionable in their validity.
I respect your opinion as I know there are some Onryo mains who enjoyed her 1st rework and they have a right to voice their opinion. However, I am 100% against the idea of going back to her first rework. It was just unbalanced and by its nature hard to balance. Either it was going to punish soloq and lower MMRs hard, or it would be too easy to counter in high MMR. There was not a good way to save that version of her. The 1st rework also was less fun to play for most of us old Onryo mains due to how it restricted her power. That rework just was not thought out very well and I am very happen they scraped it.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3767160#Comment_3767160
if tv cannot be global, slug condemn needs comeback so that killer can apply pressure on the map.
Slug condemn will never come back and even as a Sadako main I don't think it should. It supported a type of gameplay that much of the community finds either unfun or toxic, regardless of how we may feel about it.
There are ways of buffing her single TV focused condemn though without the need of slug gameplay or a form of global condemn. An increase to the condemn range from a TV like I mentioned earlier is one option. Also current Ring Drawing basekit would be another great choice, while also restoring the add-on to spread condemn between survivors healing each other but not slugged survivors.
It can absolutely be done without slugging strategies, but I don't expect BHVR to make the required changes and thus would prefer them to just leave her as is at this point.
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I'd love this myself. Having survivors actually avoid cursed tapes and be punished would be great. Not having teleport spam be the viable strategy and instead require strategic single target teleports would be great.
However old Ring Drawing can't return, at least not without the nerf to make it not work on slugged survivors. No one really wants the slug condemn strategy to come back. With the QoL buffs she has gotten across the board though she shouldn't really need to rely on such a playstyle anymore to be effective for the average player.
I doubt they will bring old Iri-tape back though, and I am okay with that if they keep the current Iri-tape. However if they did that, they would need to give her a few more condemn buffs so she could have some of the power comparable to old Iri-tape. I think instead of 16m, 18m or 20m condemn range basekit would be important.
Having said all of that, I personally am perfectly fine with the current Onryo we have. I don't trust BHVR to not mess her up again if they tried to rework her so I am content with what we have. Her current state plays fine and is fun while still being pretty strong when played well. We are fairly lucky when compared to the reworks other killers have received, and I'd rather not try our luck again.
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Most concerning thing for me is that in their Reddit AMA they seemed to say that they were happy with the Haddonfield rework, when it is one of the worst and least balanced maps now in recent memory.
I also wish when they did map reworks they would keep the old variant in rotation if it wasn't horribly broken at least. It would have at least helped balance things out in the Haddonfield situation where if someone brought an offering it would either be survivor sided or killer sided, instead of just one.
I hope they don't ruin what makes the Swamp maps fun and unique in their reworks.
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@Dream_Whisper said:
Exactly... Any player, especially survivors, regardless of the soloQ or swf, they can easily give themselves a easy map wide advantage that favors their builds and exploit the strongest survivors sided maps, at any time.
I know some people would defend map offerings as a means to vote for a map they want to say... complete a specific achievement. But I disagree with that, as majority of the time... the maps they selected do not have those kinds of achievements involved and it because their window of opportunities gives them the most benefits of their looping potionial or it is that one map with the least amount of hooks and increase deadzones so it is perfect Sabotage squad paradise.
Map Offerings should either be reworked to not give you a 100% guarantee to go to that map specific or simply put.. should be obsolete and be removed from the game.
Swf don't need a nerf. As they still have have voice come which I'd always will be advantage over SoloQ, and doesnt address the fact that they would always be able to call out killers plan at all times and coordinate gen repair, unhooking, and distracting the killer with a good time consuming chase that is anti productivity in the killer gen patrol.
I like the idea of map offerings not being a 100% guarantee. It would be good if it was maybe like a 75% chance for a killer and 50% for survivors as they have more people to stack.
In general though I think the best way to fix map offerings would be to make the Sacrificial Wards be reduced to yellow rarity so they show up more and are not completely drowned out by all the map offerings. That way people who hate the other side picking the map can just run Sacrificial Wards.
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I don't like your suggestions much at all unfortunately. I play a lot of Pig and consider her my secondary main. While she can be weak in higher MMRs it is important to consider the impact of changes across all MMRs. It is also important to consider the impact of changes in regards to how fun they are both for survivors and killer.
While your suggestions would certainly make her stronger, they would make her too oppressive, especially at the lower to mid MMRs. These changes would also make her power less interesting and fun to use, while making survivors feel hopeless.
• While The Pig is in Ambush Dash mode, the turning rate for Ambush Dash is decreased by 30% or 40%.
• While The Pig is performing the Ambush Dash attack, Anytime The Pig comes into contact with a wall or an obstacle in her path, the Ambush Dash attack will cancel and miss the attack instead.
These changes would remove what makes her dash unique and different from killers like Chucky. This would significantly make Pig less enjoyable for myself and many others I feel. I like killers to have variety and Pigs dash while somewhat weak, has a lot of fun and uniqueness in the freedom of movement it has. This freedom is also a strength that can be used to deadly effect.
Taking the ability to freely direct her dash or her ability to moondash would ruin a lot of the technical fun of her ambush power. I am strongly against these proposed changes.
• The Pig starts the trial with 10 inactive Reverse Bear Traps.
• Removed the ability for Survivors to free themselves from inactive Reverse Bear Traps at Jigsaw Boxes.
• When a Reverse Bear Trap is inactive, Survivors can no longer see the auras of Jigsaw Boxes.
• When a Reverse Bear Trap is active, Survivors can now only see the aura of Jigsaw Boxes within a 24 meter range.
I can sympathize as I know getting headpops is rare, but it is something that is supposed to be rare and only happen if you use a lot of your time to pressure a survivor or the survivor messes up. Dying to complete RNG just isn't fun and these changes would be bad for the game.
10 RBTs is a LOT of box searches for survivors, especially when they can only search the boxes when the traps are active. Having to run around the map not even being able to see the next box aura in order to remove a trap which can only be done when active would make Pig so insanely OP at most MMRs. Without significant nerfs to RBT timers and decreases to the number of box searches needed on average to remove a trap, these changes would be unbearable.
If you followed through with the necessary nerfs for this to be balanced, then RBT would only be slowdown and headpops would be impossible which would remove the thematic nature of the RBT power. As such I am strongly against your suggested changes.
• The Pig's crouched movement speed is increased to 4.0m/s.
• After The Pig has uncrouched, the Undetectable status effect will linger for 3 seconds.
These changes would be very welcome. The recent buff was nice but I feel like 4.0 wouldn't make her any strong against the lower to mid MMR players while being helpful against the better survivors. As for the undetectable, it would make her stealth feel a bit more useful while not being a huge increase to her strength.
You mention other various buffs to her ambush which overall I think are not needed due to the recent QoL changes she got. Also the add-on changes I won't bother addressing since they are based around many of the changes you mentioned which I am strongly against. Overall strongly against it, but there are a few things here and there that could be nice increases to help her out against better survivors while not making her oppressive to the standard player.
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If hooks screams are a huge problem, I think you have the game up too loud. To me she feels in line with the rest of the characters and not a problem.
Have not gone against a Plague with her yet so I can't speak to that and will have to take your word for it.
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@Langweilig said:
Just turn off the TVs. She is only oppressive if you play bad. Otherwise she is really weak.
I personally also don‘t like this version, but she doesn‘t deserve nerfs. I wish we‘d get her first version back with only one TV condemned and her old mechanics, then at least I could improve and become better, instead of relying on the missing knowledge of survivors.
That is the dream. Her first version with the new QoL updates, keep the Ring Drawing nerf to avoid slugging, and she'd be great while also being fair.
Honestly though, at this point I'd rather them just leave her as is. While its not perfect, it is still a decent rework which is fun, and that is good enough. Its better than what can be said about some other killers and their reworks.
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Very good write up. And I agree with most of your conclusions. Especially the part about "Hexes Being Lit Later Is Not Necessarily Better or Simple." Many cite this as the simple catch all solution to hexes but I am also firmly against it even though I love to use hexes. It would mess with trap totems but also survivors should have the opportunity to scout them out or notice them in chase.
It would be unfair for survivors to have no idea which totem might be Devour at 3 stacks for example, or possibly even 5 stacks if the killer hides it by not using m1s.
I disagree with you about Pentimento. I do think that just getting 1 stack can be very punishing and makes it pretty powerful. But not making the effects come back would make it situational and inconsistent. While some aspects of this change would be nice since it would be easier to get the effects of the later tiers, I feel like it would be better to balance it by taking 15% of the gen slowdown from tier 1 and put it into tier 2.
Overall I think hexes are in a decent spot. They are high risk high reward. If you just run hexes without a plan, then they are not great. But if you bring a dedicated build like some of the ones you listed, they can be very powerful. We really do need more trap totems though. I personally would love a hex perk that blocks all hexes (or maybe even totems) from being interacted with for the first 45 seconds which also has an additional trap effect.
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Ditto. The new UI makes trying new combinations painful. A lot of the times I buy cosmetics is when I am putting something together but feel like the color or style is off or that a piece is missing. As a result I visit the store to see what other options there are and if I find something I really like, I get it.
With this UI change I just want to stick to my presets and not bother looking around at all since it is just so unpleasant to use. I already have a good amount of cosmetics so it is just not worth it for me to experiment and shop for new ones with this horrible UI when I can just go with what I already know works.
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@Chiky said:
you put more thought on this than BHVR did
Seriously. Let's just hope BHVR will take the time to actually read this and fix this new horrible UI.
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@CrypticGirl said:
This was why I had suggested longer challenges some time ago, but no one seemed to be in favor of it.
What I mean by "longer challenges" is ones that are easy, but would take multiple matches to do (i.e. repair ten generators). We've had some challenges like that, such as earn 3 gold emblems in a specific category.
I hate these ones more because they just feel tedious. An easy task I can do in 1 game is whatever. A challenging tasks that takes a few games can be fun. A easy task that takes multiple games just to drag it out is annoying.
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Point 3 is a HUGE one for me. Not being able to see what cosmetics I have selected for my loadout preset at a quick glance is simply unacceptable.
I shouldn't have to scroll through dozens of items, just to find what I actually have equipped before even considering changing anything.
BHVR MUST address this is they want people to actually use their UI.
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There needs to be an option to keep a filter active at the very least
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@MarbleThrone said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RCB8W8KPR3LS/oldscreen.jpg
Right now I think this was still better. You can immediately see what you have equipped without having to scroll down. The charms are immediately visible with much larger icons too.
And the page numbers are nice too, it shows the size of your collection which is completely taken away by the new UI.It's still just store 2.0 which is bad. Why have the new store if you put all that in the character selection screen anyway.
The old UI was infinitely better than what we got with this updates UI.
- Being able to easily and clearly see what items you have selected for your preset is a must!
- Page system was convenient and made finding items easy by knowing their page number, compared to having to scroll down until finding it.
- Selecting a charm is just miserable now. Just utterly miserable.
- Save the large icons and long scroll bar menu for the store where there is value in seeing large images.
When I'm trying to select character cosmetics, I want the UI to actually be designed to make it easier and assist me rather than this unfriendly UI we got that makes it even harder.
This new UI just makes me want to only use my presets and not bother looking around for new cosmetic combinations. I wouldn't be surprised if sales went down from others doing the same.
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@AngelOfHope2017 said:
As a survivor main, I do not think it needs to be nerfed. It's fine. Just learn to play around it.
No it 100% needs at least the item auras for survivors affected by it. Without this change, the perk is just miserable in soloq.
It takes way too long to track down the items from your teammates. Also you are just screwed if it is a multistory map because good luck trying to find the items lost by your team if you don't even know what level it is on.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3758582#Comment_3758582
I have a feeling they'll just make the time it takes to enter an autoaiming biopod 0.2 seconds.
This is what I would assume as well. It makes the most sense and would allow both systems to co-exist just fine.
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100% BHVR should NEVER do this. Taking add-ons away from a killer is no where near the equivalent of survivors losing items.
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@danielmaster87 said:
It wasn't even that strong. Geez.
You have to be very naive to think that. It saved tons of time, not having a killer spend 10-20 seconds carrying a survivor to a hook is huge. Remote Hooking also denied pretty much any form of altruism related to hooking or saves. Also if you caught 2 survivors close to each other and downed one quick, you could just immediately chase the other one after spending 3 seconds to remote hook. Not to mention you could easily remote hook into basement if you knew what you were doing.
They were absolutely strong and to say otherwise is to turn a blind eye.
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I forgot to address the add-ons in my previous comment so I'll do that now.
Disagree to some degree on the following add-ons:- Iridescent Videotape - This add-on while niche, does have its uses and is a perfectly fine add-on. I get a ton of use out of it myself. The add-on just requires you to adapt your playstyle and design you build completely around it, which not everyone is willing to do.
- Mothers Comb - This add-on performs fine for its purpose. It is not an add-on I generally use for my preferences but I can see how to get value from it. It was certainly stronger on 2.0 but I believe it still has a purpose and doesn't really need a change.
- Telephone - Before her last set of QoL buffs I would have agreed 100% with you. But I think given the recent buffs like her increased speed when manifesting, make this add-on in a decent spot now. Maybe could be buffed a tiny bit but honestly wouldn't need to be much. While still not a crazy strong add-on, its not nearly as weak as before.
Agree with you on the following add-ons needing changes, though sometimes for similar or slightly different reasons:
- Sea Soaked Cloth & Rickety Pinwheel- These add-ons worked fine with her release version, but since survivors are now encouraged to turn off TVs the moment they turn on if they are next to one as part of her counterplay, these add-ons are now very weak and have lost their purpose. What good is an add-on with a small range that is only activated around an active TV, when survivors will always turn off that TV.
- These add-ons would be much better again if their effects were instead changed to be activated within 8 meters of a TV turned off by a survivor. This would allow these add-ons to be actually useful again while also providing Onryo some counterplay to survivors who turn off her TVs at every opportunity.
- Clump of Hair - This add-on is just completely underwhelming. Would be great if it made her lullaby map-wide to counter people abusing the VTR against her.
- VCR - This add-on was weak before, but with the change in her last rework allowing survivors to see the auras of all active TVs, this add-on has become useless. Easily one of her worst if not the worst add-on. Not even good as a meme add-on since survivors can just watch the aura and know if you teleported to them. Needs a rework or buff to justify its use.
- Distorted Photo - 100% agree. Either remove the witnessing aspect OR increase the range to something like 24m so it can be used as a sort of info tool to find survivors watching you from a distance; a cooldown could be reasonable for this if necessary.
- Well Stone - 100% agree. Duration feels meaningless compared to how long TVs are off for. Would need to be at least 15s for me to even consider it.
Ring Drawing I'm kind of in the middle on. I can see good arguments for it being basekit but I also don't really know if it needs to be at the same time. So just going to say I'm on the fence about it for now.
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100% agree with you on point 3. With her release version survivors wanted to avoid grabbing a cursed tape in order to protect themselves and only wanted to turn off TVs to deny her mobility at key points (as they should because you know, curses are bad). This allowed Sadako to have good map mobility.
However with the rework, now survivors are encouraged to grab tapes in order to protect themselves. This means that Sadako is hit twice with the counterplay. Survivors can quickly avoid condemn while also denying her mobility at no cost to them.This dynamic change from Sadako's release version where taking tapes was discouraged to her current version where it is encourages makes her weaker against good teams due to how it disproportionately punishes her. However as long as Sadako can spread condemn from multiple TVs, it has to be this way for balance.
My suggestion would be similar to yours, add ticking condemn back to survivors grabbing tapes, but also make it so Sadako can only spread condemn from the TV she Projects to, like she was at release. This should be accompanied but a basekit condemn range increase to at least 18m.
This would solve the balancing issue for condemn and make condemn gameplay more skillful. It wouldn't punish soloq teams but also wouldn't punish Sadako against skilled teams. I'm sure many are skeptical of release version condemn mechanics but given all the QoL buffs we have received to TV cooldown times and the like, I think it would be fine.If these changes are not acceptable to BHVR, then at the very least something should be done to punish survivors who go around turning off multiple TVs at a time given how there is little downside atm compared to how much it hurts Sadako. Maybe giving survivors 2 stacks for turning off a TV when already holding a tape would be enough to balance this compared to the current 1 stack they get.
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@TheArbiter said:
The ONLY change i could see them making would be to show the aura of the item revealing you, otherwise it's not a great perk and requires the killer to dedicate two perks to even get use out of it
This would be the best change since it would allow survivors to actually engage with the counterplay if not in a 4 person swf.
Without seeing the item auras, it can be almost impossible at times to find the items dropped by other players in order to counter it. It is hard to find the toolbox knocked out in tall grass with Franklins from a soloq player, or trying to figure out which floor an item is on when playing Midwich.
Allowing survivors to see the auras of items affecting them would be a great way to balance the perk and make it more fair to play against without kneecapping the perk by nerfing it with reduced synergy or range. -
Just remove Tombstone Piece add-on or make it much harder to activate, maybe add extra stalk time to Judith's Tombstone add-on, and then give him a bunch of QoL changes.
Your suggestion is just too complicated when he really doesn't need a complete power rework. -
I think its a great mechanic but it should be limited in its use. Only certain maps here and there should have it. Its nice when maps stand out and are unique, and the recent map due to its 2 story nature and choke points really benefits from the portal system.
I do think the most recent map should have a portal near shack going into the lower area though, while also increasing the size of the upper area and adding more pallets for balance. -
Tombstone hate is way too common and unwarranted most of the time. Tombstone Myers is one of the few things that make dbd feel like a horror game again. Its always a tense match and it does have counterplay such as going into lockers and forcing hooks.
Due to this I 100% disagree with your locker change suggestion as I believe it is a critical strategic counter to Myers and creates dynamic gameplay relating to his power. I do like your Tombstone Piece suggestions though.
The main issue with Tombstone Piece add-on since it can be too easy to get a survivors out very early. In addition to your suggestions for it, I also think survivors would feel better about Tombstone add-ons if the mori required at least a decent amount of stalk from a survivor in order to activate on that survivor. -
I intentionally don't level up my survivor main anymore because i don't want to get lobby dodged repeatedly by having too high of a level.
Its such a sad state of affairs. BHVR really should just hide lobby prestige for both sides. -
There 100% should not be respawning pallets. However, killers should also have to strategize how they manage their hooks when hooking deathhook survivors. To have basically no consequences other than a short 60 wait diminishes the gameplay interactions between the 2 sides and rewards poor gameplay on the killers part. Hook respawning can exist as a mechanic but it needs to be balanced and reward good decision making and not interrupt the games mechanics.
By having hook breaking, the killer has to be wary of how they use their hooks, just like survivors have to be wary of which gens they finish to avoid a 3 gen. Due to the importance of hook management, a tunneling killer will sometimes have to take a survivor further before hooking than normal to avoid making a deadzone. This gives survivors extra time and opportunity to make altruistic saves. Simply put, making hooks respawns actually is a buff to tunneling in a roundabout way. A tunneling killer can now just always use the closest hook for any deathhook survivor and get back into chase faster as a result.
Furthermore we all know that once a survivor is out of the game, the game gets much much easier for the killer role. By have respawning hooks, this makes the 3v1 or 2v1 even harder for survivors. Forcing the killer to walk father and waste more time if they did not use good hook management was a way for survivors to punish bad hook management.
While it is true that on some maps survivors can force a deadzone, this is a issue of map design which should be addressed in other ways. Good killers who have proper hook management and will avoid having hook deadzones 99% of the time. Bad killers who don't perform proper hook management should not be excessively rewarded for refusing to improve.
TLDR:
Hook respawns are just not needed for most cases, and the cases that require it could be solved by better map design. Hook respawning is a bandaid feature to fix poor map design and hook RNG. 60 seconds is way too short for to properly reward or punish hook management and removes strategic gameplay and decision making from both sides. 120 seconds or 180 seconds would be much more reasonable as it would avoid hook deadzones given enough time, while still allowing for hooks to be strategically relevant. This game needs more strategic play and interaction not less. -
100% agree. 120 or 180 seconds would be much more reasonable than 60 seconds. If you are creating hook deadzones as a killer then that means you are not managing your hooks properly. There should be some sort of consequence for playing poorly, even if the game will forgive you after a set timer. 60 seconds is simply too sort to feel any sort of consequence.
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It is crazy to me that they would nerf an already niche perk just to stay consistent with with gen perks.
This drive for consistency when it is not needed is really ridiculous. Mirrored Illusion is nothing like Blast Mine or Wire Tap and therefore doesn't need the same exact requirements.
If BHVR is going to make the perk even less useful, BHVR should at least make the illusion use the fixing gen animation when it is active. -
The biggest issue with it imo is how survivors are punished for not performing the counterplay but also are punished for performing the counterplay.
Survivors get oblivious when they drop an item in the corner and then also reveal their aura to the killer. So the killer can easily sneak up on them if they want to. Not a huge issue but kind of bad game design.
I think BHVR should remove the oblivious from the perk or return the aura reading back to 8m. 8 meters was fine on the PTB with Franklin's if you were actually smart with the combo and strategically got m1 hits at key locations. Even without doing that, the perk as still decent. As the perk stands with 12m range, its usually just map wide aura reading win basically no work or conditions for 2 perk slots. Pretty powerful in my experience considering some will run full aura builds to get the same amount of aura reading. -
This isn't an issue. If Vecna is using the maps terrain against survivors and getting FoTD hits, that is perfectly fine. Survivors have counter play to it and every counterplay isn't going to work in every situation. Crouching works a lot of the time but other times you will need to space it properly.
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Flight of the Damned is just fine as it is. Its not meant to be free hits whenever you want them. If you are actually good with Vecna you'll know how to use it properly to either get hits with it directly, or zone and ensure an m1 hit.
It doesn't need any changes to make it harder to dodge for survivors.