SilentShepherd
SilentShepherd
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@Mandy said:
I remember the time before SWF was introduced - there was the option at the start of KYF and SWF and KYF was implemented first (disclaimer before people jump on that, both were always intended).
Survivors just used to lobby dodge until the got into the lobbies with their friends (not difficult to do even now if you're in the same area). That actually caused bigger issues for matchmaking having lobbies being dodged all over the place. People are going to want to play with their friends, it's only natural - this can be a party game for many players, not everyone takes the game super competitively and a lot are casual players who want to have fun with their friends.
Also, a lot of SWF do not even discuss the game properly when they're playing - it's not so much information that they're passing to each other but misinformation and trolling of each other.
Also, I've been accused of being in a SWF a lot of times, when I was not - because the players coordinated together. That happens more frequently than people realise, which then again leads players to assume they're playing against SWF.
Yes coordinated SWF teams are strong, nobody is denying that. And a team of 4 solo survivors is the weakest section of the game, but fortunately as it's been mentioned, there are tentative plans (nothing confirmed) to address that issue.
The best fix is to create a separate queue. Make a queue specifically for people who want pure Solo survivor games, and then a separate queue for people who are using SWF's.
Yes, the SWF queue will be lacking Killers. But this is a HUGE RED FLAG to your developers that Killers are not playing your game because of SWF.
I'm not saying remove SWF. Just create a separate queue for those who want to play with their friends and matchmake public players.
my second idea, which I am not too fond of....
A Radio.
Radio - allows survivors to speak to each other with voice chat
so the in game survivors have an in game voice chat. Either a Perk or an item.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768454#Comment_2768454
But why have MMR at all if it's not meant to reflect player skill? Is the goal not to have better killers play against better survivors and vice versa? At that point the old system of rank-based matchmaking, while flawed, is still a better system to base matchmaking on. Even if you want to use kills and escapes as a proxy for everything else in the game, it should absolutely consider kills and escapes for the whole team, not the individual player. @SilentShepherd makes a great analogy to +/- in basketball and I completely agree that this is what MMR should be based on. I'm fine with keeping it to kills/escapes if so, though.
For example, let's say you're the only survivor to die in a 1k. The system should consider that a +1 for every member of the survivor team. Conversely, let's say you're the only survivor to escape in a 3k. The system should consider that a -1 for every member of the survivor team. This would make matchmaking more directly based on player skill while also incentivizing good behavior for survivors. For example, let's say you're in a situation with three survivors left alive and the gates open. One survivor is hooked, one is injured and getting chased, and one is healthy. In the current system, if the healthy survivor just leaves, MMR increases their rating. In my proposed system, if the healthy survivor just leaves, they're punished; they'd almost certainly be the only survivor, meaning everyone on the team would get a -1. Let's say they went back, got the unhook, and took a hit for the injured survivor in the chase so that they could escape. Even if they died as a result, then, they'd get a 0, which would be better than the rating for just leaving (and rightly so).
This would even be a simpler system and one that is more representative of what the actual game is. It's not four individual survivors each having a 1v1 battle with a killer. It's a team of four survivors having a 4v1 battle with the killer. Each team member has the ability to make or break the outcome for the rest of the team. This should be reflected in MMR.
Thank you for your acknowledgement and for the excellent post.
We are not even being paid for this, and we can come up with better solutions than what we have. It's just so disheartening to see the choices that DBD devs make.
Why are they incentivizing UNHEALTHY/UNFUN gameplay...
Why don't they use a +/- system to more accurately rate players? This would create so much more HEALTHY gameplay and a better overall experience for every player.. because dying does not mean you need to "git gud"... it means you took the killer on and did risky things to HELP YOUR TEAM ESCAPE. And depending on how successful you were... how many generators you did, how long your chases were, how many unhooks, whatever.... all of this is taken into account. People would feel much better at playing a team game, and not feel so bad if they die.
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@ObservantOfTime said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2783665#Comment_2783665
acceptable cheats like comms
Ah, didn't know playing SWF was considered cheating. Perhaps the easiest way to combat this is just to remove the play with friends feature. What a wild take.
Of course SWF is cheating. They communicate the location of killer and coordinate gens and saves etc. There are entire sets of perks designed to give you a small glimpse of the killer's aura... you don't need any of that when you have 4 people on discord communiating killer presence and activites.
What made me quit Killer for good, was when someone told me the developers of this game actually defended SWF and said it wasn't cheating or an advantage. I lol'd and knew what the deal was at that moment. Now I main survivor and have fun.
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@El_Gingero said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2783832#Comment_2783832
I know what they’re saying, but what I’m saying is that they’re incorrect.
Looping (as well as other objectives) should be measured as skill even if it does not net you an escape.
Everyone loves analogies so here’s one to highlight the point:
Mr. Gingeroo loops the killer for 5 gens. Everyone else just does gens. Mr. Gingeroo gets hooked. Everyone leaves.
Should Mr. Gingeroo be penalised because his team did some skill checks and held W through the exit gate, leaving him to die on hook?
Who was the most skilful, and who had the largest contribution towards victory, in your opinion:
Claudette, David and Meg did 5 gens together, unabated.
Mr. Gingeroo outplayed an equally skilled killer at the most skill-intensive activity survivors have access to for 5 free gens, but finally got caught and was unable to complete the last part of his objective (holding W through a loading screen.)
Judging skill based from escapes alone does not roll it all up into one value. That’s the issue I’m getting at.
100% with you, many of us are.
It makes no sense too, because the game -already tracks these stats-.... such as time being chased (looping), etc... but somehow they can't use all of those stats into an overall grade score to better measure each player's contributions to the result..?
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2783818#Comment_2783818
My man,
He's not saying looping isn't a skill, he's saying if it doesn't get you the win in that match, it shouldn't be measured as a skill, in that match.
That's why only the win condition is measured, because it rolls up all skills under a single value. Sometimes looping contributes to a win. Certainly, doing it consistently absolutely improves your chances at winning, but should it be measured independently?
Hell. No.
How are you not getting his point through your skull?
SOMEONE has to keep the killer busy. SOMEONE. Or else you don't get any generators done. do you get it?
If a player is so skilled, and can loop the killer while rest of team does generators in peace and quiet... and then that players gets hooked at end game and camped by killer because killer is salty and desperate for 1k.... how the hell can you consider it a W for the other 3 players, and a loss for the player who died?
The player who died literally carried his team, and does not get any credit for it.
My gosh its not hard.
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@furret534 said:
A lot of people are saying killer isn’t fun to play right now. Everyone has their own reasons, and I’d love to hear what your guys reasons are and what you’d do to make killer more fun. Try your best to think of a method where both sides win in the long run!
Killers are too strong as it is. What we need is more Survivor buffs.
To any Killer who is complaining :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T1r8xShskg -
@ThanksForDaily said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2635143#Comment_2635143
I agree, T1 was a horror movie rather than action film.
exactly. James Cameron himself said so. T1 came out during the slash horror film success in Hollywood. He simply put a sci-fi twist on a killer (T-800) with an obsession (Sarah Connor).
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@MikeyBoi said:
My god there are so many pallets on that map..
? every map is like this. I run Windows a lot. I don't know why it's not more popular unless you're an old veteran and know every single thing on a map by memory. I can run killers from pallet to window to pallet all day thanks to Windows
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Two survivors left. 1 generator remaining.
1 of them hides in a dead corner of the map, practically AFK, not doing anything, waiting for teammate to die, to take a chance at escaping through gates.
1 of them actually plays the game and tries to do the final generator.
Guess which one dies first? The one actually playing the game and trying to do the final generator. Developers of this game think that person is "unskilled" because they died. But what was his choice? To sit in another dead corner like the other guy, and sit for 1 hour while Killer patrols 3 generators and the game is basically dead?
The game devs want to reward the hiding player who just waits for team to die, because that person has more chances to escape and will succeed on some of them.
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
You are a true Dweet.
im your biggest fan. just wish you were as small as claudette because killer can see our heads over rocks
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I have -0- sympathy for killers who admit to tunneling a player from the start of match. You get everything you deserve IMO, because honestly, as the Survivor who has been tunneled like that before, it's the most unfun, stressful, terrible experience anywhere in video games. Feeling intentionally singled out among a pack of survivors, watching a killer literally ignore survivors who are right next to him, so he can tunnel you quickly out of match, is singlehandedly the worst thing about this game.
"Why are you tunneling me man, I didn't do anything the match just started"
Not to mention the time waste. You just wasted 15 minutes in queue + your offerings
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I don't have any sympathy for OP
Killers who face camp and tunnel 1 player out of game from the very start of match, make it very stressful and terrible game experience for that Survivor.
No sympathy from me if OP is admitting to tunneling right off the bat at start.
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I have a different complaint about Pig.
She is the MOST stealthiest character in all of DBD, by far, to the point I don't like playing against her at all.
Ghostface is not as bad, and neither is Myers, or Legion.
But Pig is legit ninja status until she is already on top of you.
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@dugman said:
This mostly looks like the specific map tiles just need a hook near them. Put a hook at the top of the library balcony for instance and that should be fine for example. The Midwich one had no hooks in the upper hallway for some reason, again just put a hook in that area and it’s fine.
The only other thing that might actually need a tweak based on the video would be it seemed like sometimes Boil Over was doublecounting falls because the killer “fell” down a ramp. They may need to adjust the height sensitivity so very minor height differences don’t trigger the 25% boost. Either that or only give the 25% bonus once per carry so it can’t get a double boost.
I think dealing with the specific map areas that don’t have enough hooks is the better long term solution since those same areas are already going to be slightly problematic anyway even without Boil Over. Boil Over is really just emphasizing certain layouts that need an adjustment.
The RCPD issue has been here for a long time and has NOTHING to do with Boil Over. If no hook spawns in library, this happened without Boil Over too. Sometimes hooks spawn in the first floor of library , fixing the issue for that match.
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@fcb said:
I'm having fun on rpd because they are trying this on me, but I have brutal strength (easy hooks). I don't chase the survivor on the library unless he/she is the last survivor, and once the last survivor is down on the library he/she will bleed out.
what does Brutal Strength have to do with anything? do you mean Iron Grasp?
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What is ANOES?
nevermind, i just figured it out as i hit reply. Freddy. A nightmare on elm street
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@TruffleTurtle said:
They already said they aren't going to do replays
once upon a time, RIOT said the same thing. Now look at them. Replays is one of the most vital features of that game, for the e-sports and for the average player.
BHVR REALLY need to re-consider.
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Why would I ever wear charms? They add too much color to my character and would otherwise make me stand out for the killer.
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@Advorsus said:
Say you both die in this scenario. What happens?? You died, your MMR goes down, you face sightly less skilled opponents until you CAN survive. That's it. Nothing else happens. It doesn't actually change your game any, you don't lose anything by dying, and you don't really gain anything for not dying or having high MMR. You're complaining about something that has no effect other than who you're facing, and it takes the data from many games not just one specific game or scenario.
The only thing that has any affect outside of each match is the amount of BP you gain, which is only used for grades and investing into characters. And if a person is hiding all game and not doing anything but just escaping, they're not gaining any bp, no pips to go towards their grades, and they will continue to face even harder opponents. Sooo... I'm not seeing a downside. So you died? Boo hoo. Did you do stuff? Did you gain Bp? Cool, ggs next match.
That would be a bad system as it supports a constant rise and fall in MMR, for a player that should otherwise be a NET POSITIVE and climbing in rank.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768405#Comment_2768405
As in any other MMR system (assuming that the number is actually used, which tbf it currently isn't, the matchmaking compromises on it too quickly as the devs have admitted to), the person who hides all game and waits for the team to die so they can open the exit gates (as hatch doesn't count for MMR) will climb up to the point where that no longer works. That's how MMR systems should work, if there's a cheap tactic it should let you climb so you get to the point where it stops working.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768407#Comment_2768407
I have no reason to disbelieve the devs when they say that it does. It makes sense to me- if you're the kind of person who excels at looping and runs the killer for five gens sometimes, that means you're going to escape more often than you're not, or you're going to slide down to the point where you will start escaping. That's how it should work, that's what a hypothetical perfect matchmaking system would look like.
That, or you're hiding to escape every game, which I addressed above.
As for skill-based matchmaking being a bad idea, that's why I generally agree with the assertion that they shouldn't have ever used that term, that was a massive mistake. It's not really a skill based system, it's a system designed to produce matches where the default assumption a 50% chance for you specifically to achieve your win condition- and from what I'm hearing, that part works, it's the sorting and matching half that compromises too quickly.
(All of which is in this post, btw.)
And? That person who hides to escape, STILL got to a rating they do not deserve. bad system.
And the person who actually tries to play the game and is doing everything for the team, this player puts themselves at risk more, and WILL die more, but they are an overall NET POSITIVE for the team in every game they play, as they get things done and help the team accomplish many things. This should be taken into account.
Since this is a team game, and the Lead Ded used a hockey analogy, I will use a basketball analogy.
Plus/Minus +/-
A player who does 3 generators, 3 safe unhooks, puts up 3 boons, and escapes 4 chases is an overall NET POSITIVE. And we could assign numerical values to all of those efforts and find a +13, for example. This person should climb MMR and not be held back because they died.
And another POSITIVE RESULT of this new system, would be that Survivors would not feel as bad if they die. Players would be more team-oriented and the game would be more fun as it would not be all about escaping only.
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@foxsansbox said:
Attempting to do the final generator in a 1 v 2 is absolutely not a skilled play. Very few 2 v 1s have the coordination to pull that off and you're suggesting it should be attempted in soloQ.
At this point, the only thing that matters is if the killer wants to slug and get both of you or risk 1 getting hatch.
So.... you're suggesting what?
Both players hide in a corner for 20 minutes and hope the Killer finds the other guy first?
You know this type of gameplay should not be encouraged right
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@fblurbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768387#Comment_2768387
Nothing about what they said shows that the MMR system's standards is actually a good indicator of skill—which it isn't. In a game like DBD where there is more RNG-based variance than there is player input-based variance, not only is a skill-based matchmaking system a bad idea in the first place, but when you throw out all that variance and the infinitely huge list of factors that came into the situation and instead boil it down to a small number, it's not going to be accurate. And it isn't. MMR does not do a good job of indicating your skill or if you are even remotely close to as good or as bad as the other players in your lobby. And even if it WERE a good skill indicator, it doesn't matter because the system is broken and doesn't match you with players of similar MMR ratings anyways.
So what we have is a skill-based matchmaking system that does a terrible job of rating your skill and also does a terrible job of matching you with people of similar ratings. It is, objectively, a trash, broken system and should be revised from the ground up.
Exactly, well put. And reading the Lead Game Designer's hockey analogy makes my head hurt.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768390#Comment_2768390
The post still addresses it, which is my point.
No MMR system is going to work on a game by game basis, they're all supposed to place you over time. That's just how matchmaking works- progress systems often go game by game, but matchmaking takes much wider pools of data.
Then we need a new system that goes on a GAME by GAME basis. After each match, you are given a final overall grade. Yes, Surviving counts heavily, but someone who hides all game and waits for team to die so they can find the Hatch, will NOT get as good a grade as the guy who died but did 4 generators, put up 3 boons, 3 unhooks, and escaped 4 chases. All of this information is ALREADY recorded by the game for the end game badges and the Tome achievements. Why is it not being used.
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Noed is God tier. If you can't find the totem, the game will probably end in 3 or 4 kills.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768371#Comment_2768371
- Yes it does, that'd be the part where it explains that the system matches you over large batches of games- if you're cocky enough to go for the kinds of plays that can get you killed first after a five-gen chase, you're not going to fail that every time, and you're going to escape more often than you don't.
- That'd be the matchmaking half, not the MMR half itself, which is the focal point of this post. I don't know if OP would acknowledge the matchmaking portion being broken, but they don't have to- the devs did, in the QnA stream.
Those are clearly assumptions that may or may not come to fruition. And it penalizes a player by forcing them to play a large amount of games in the hopes it "evens out", and it pisses away amazing games in which you did not survive. I have had this happen to me when my teammate decided to hide in a locker until I was dead. She found the hatch and escaped.
No, the system sucks and there is no reason for it to suck. The game ALREADY records statistics like unhooks, generators completed, etc.
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No OP.
The game could be designed to take into account what happens in the game.
For example. A survivor goes through a four or five gen chase. The game ALREADY records how long you have been in a chase for. So, either mark milestones at every minute of a chase or something, or just record how many Generators were done during that chase, and give that player the credit for that chase. This factors into MMR rating.
The game already records how many generators you do, unhooks, etc, because we see this with the Tome bloodpoint achievements.
Why on earth is this data not already factored into the MMR rating? Sounds like an easy thing to do - to create an overall rating based on several factors, with some factors weighing HEAVILY. It should NOT be all about escaping.
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@Laluzi said:
Didn't you already make this thread a few days ago?
Bubba, like Billy, has to charge his saw fully before he attacks. The saw has a sound cue. That gives survivors some time to avoid it by dropping a pallet, vaulting a window, jumping in a locker, or even hugging a really tight corner and hoping Bubba bumps or goes wide.
If you're in a dead zone, you're screwed, but then I question why you ended up in a dead zone in the first place. Bubba has a 32m TR; you hear him coming, unlike the stealth killers you brought up. He's a killer that you need to pay attention to your surroundings and flee early if they won't help you when the killer arrives - another example of this would be Trickster.
Plus Myers and Ghostface just lunge and down you, which is harder to avoid when the conditions are active. There's almost no windup time.
Bubba being able to flat out deny unhooks is BS, but his saw itself is fine.
Myers and Ghostface require you to be stalked beforehand.
Bubba has no such pre requisite. ANd dont talk to me about revving up his chainsaw. He does this while chasing people.
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@Starrseed said:
Huntress and Clown have both an iri addon to insta you I know it's with an addon but killer mains have them stockpiled anyway and you forgot billi he insta downs you to just like bubba with the one difference that he only downs one but that and that bubba isn't racing over the map are the two differences to make them different from each other
im only talking about base kits. people with iri addons cannot have them every game, so they are kinda rare when you playa gainst them
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768236#Comment_2768236
I mean lets be real, he is pretty busted. He can be looped but with good addons he shred all the pallets quickly. 1 mistep against a Bubba and the game is over if he wants to facecamp at 4-5 gens left with endgame perks. Which is pretty stupid, that the survivor team automatically loses because 1 person got chainsawed too early.
But realistically he is gonna eat the facecamping nerf the devs talked about in the QnA. Of course I abuse the crap out of it, but it's a really poorly designed character. At least Billy takes some skill
exactly
Billy has counter play. I have faced GOOD billys before, and I got instadowned within first couple minutes of match when the billy charged from halfaway across map and surprised me, but i never felt he was OP. You can make billy miss when he charges.
But BUBBA?/!? the guy can turn corners while still swinging.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768222#Comment_2768222
Bubba = to instadown.... nothing. he has to do nothing. he just runs at you and starts swinging.
Except he slows down when he charges his chainsaw, he can bump the horrid hitboxes of objects used in looping, and a pallet will take him out of his chainsaw.
But sure; brush over all this flaws to pretend to be right. It's only dishonest. 🙃
You're the one being dishonest. I have tried to use TIGHT corners and use several corners in succession to get away. Does NOT work, Bubba will turn too while still swinging. I have experienced this first hand.
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Myers = needs to charge Evil Within to Tier 2, then to Tier 3. This takes some time. And then Tier 3 runs out and Myers has to repeat the process.
Ghostface = needs to stalk a victim to fully charge. Only works on the players stalked. Needs to repeat process every time.
Okay I forgot Billy. But Billy has counterplay. Billy charges in a straight line and you can dodge him. One mistake by Billy in a failed charge, and survivor gets a lot of ground.
but... Bubba? No pre-req. From the start of the match, in the very first chase against someone, with no need to stalk or slow down or watch you, he can just run right at you and start swinging his chainsaw to instadown everyone in his path. He can spam this all game long. He can even turn corners with it. He gains ground on you while swinging and turning corners and insta downs.
Combined with the face camping, he can deny an entire team attempting to save someone from a hook.
But somehow Bubba is fair.
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@Haddix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2766812#Comment_2766812
I know you're asking Sluzzy, but you can tell OP is a very very casual inexperienced player by just their usage of that term lmfao
Myers = to instadown, needs to charge up Tier 3, which takes a long while, AND is not forever. It runs out and he has to do it all over again.
Ghostface = to instadown, has to stalk you to fully charge
Bubba = to instadown.... nothing. he has to do nothing. he just runs at you and starts swinging.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767146#Comment_2767146
While this Midchapter-Patch was full of changes, the Tombstone Piece is the most obvious Add On which should be nerfed IMO. You cannot really look at it and say "Ah, its fine". So I dont really know why they would stop at this Add On. Myers in general has a flaw that you can be downed instantly despite never seeing him before and Tombstone Piece just makes this worse. (Ghostface is more fair in this aspect, if I get marked, I was at fault.)
@Topic:
As others have said, the next Killers are Legion and Ghostface, followed by Twins. But I would agree that Myers needs some Love, his Tombstone Piece and Infinite Tier 3 need to be nerfed and the Buffs to his Add Ons he received recently did not really lift him up. He is heavily outdated, when I started playing, most players ranked him as a solid Killer and over the time he just got more irrelevant.
But I doubt it will happen anytime soon.
You say Myers is unfair, and you mention Ghostface is fair.
What about Bubba? He instadowns you even though you never seen him before either. And yet Bubba does NOT need to charge up to Tier 3, nor does he need to stalk you. He just runs at you and starts swinging right off the bat.
Tell me how Bubba is fair. Beucase he is too strong imo
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@Gwinty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2765570#Comment_2765570
Please, you complain about Cannibal being OP...
Have you ever tried playing him and I mean, playing him as in "chase survivors"? He can be pretty demanding to hit and good survivors will give you a run for you money. If you try to run loops tight, enjoy your tantrum. If you do not, enjoy the survivor running you for a while. Playing against a Cannibal that goes chasing is challenging but rewarding as with every Tantrum you trigger on him you quit some distance.
You are right that Cannibal that camps is bad. However you suggest a nerf to his baseline ability which is quit fine.
Most complains about him being able to down multiple survivors have to do with camping. This issue needs to be solved on its own. Other complains about his multi-down are from greedy people who sit on the generator without Sprint Burst when Cannibal walks up to them reving his chainsaw. This was bad gameplay and should be punished.
His ability does not last too long. This is not a fact it is your personal perception. He does not close gaps instantly, he slows down when he revs that chainsaw...
Long story short: Camping Bubba = Camping problem, not Bubba problem. Trying to run Bubba as you run a Wraith = Bad gameplay, punishable by getting chainsawed. AoE insta-down = punishment for greedy survivor, learn to split up (good tactic anyway to apply maximum pressure on the Killer).
dude, Bubba can turn. I have tried to run tight corners and it does NOT matter. Bubba's will still make every turn I make WHILE swinging their ability and still catch me
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DBD is almost as toxic as RUST.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2765602#Comment_2765602
Okay, but survivors shouldn't be clumped up like that in the first place. First off, it's inefficient and you should be split up for the most part anyway, but this is only an issue in camping situations. If there is any other situation where he can manage to hit two survivors in one chainsaw, it is the survivors' faults for not splitting up and not respecting that his power can hit through people. You don't greed a gen, stick out a heal, or bodyblock when Bubba shows up any more than you do those things in front of a Plague with Corrupt Purge or an Oni with Blood Fury. You don't cluster up against a Legion, either, you stay the hell away from each other unless necessary. Different killers mandate different counterplay, and if you fail to react properly to the killer in question, you're going to end up in bad situations. Against Trapper, you watch the ground. Against Twins, you avoid staying injured. Against Bubba, you split up and you bloody well respect his terror radius so that you avoid getting caught out of position. You might play chicken with a Legion's TR, but you don't mess around with a T3 Myers nearby. Same principle.
Like, if I get unhooked and Bubba's coming back, me and the unhooker will book it in different directions. That's deliberate. I am not attempting a BT block because it will not work, and one of us is sacrificing the best route in order to prevent a chain down. This is why the basement is as good as it is; it's a bottleneck. If you get unhooked and you chase after the unhooker, and Bubba gets both of you - that's not overpowered, that is you making the wrong play and feeding into his power.
You're acting like this AOE instadown is unreasonable and a surprise, but, like... that's what it is. It's right there on the tin. If I try to loop a Huntress like I would a Trapper and I get downed, and I come to the forums complaining that she can hit me from a distance, it's not fair, I already dropped a pallet in front of her so why can she damage me anyway, she wasn't even close to me - that's ridiculous, right? The onus is on me for playing the game wrong, because there's a right way to do it and the right way actually works, so it's not a matter of the killer's kit being intrinsically overpowered.
I hate to say this, but I really think you need to get more experience at this game before you start dictating balance changes, because it seems to me like you don't have a realistic grasp on how things work, how they rate against each other, and what killers and survivors are capable of doing. 20 seconds between power uses is not only insanely punitive, it wouldn't actually help your survival much (you'd just get backrevved, and the camper won't use his power until the unhook happens so that won't stop him either.) All that actually succeeds in doing is making Bubba much more annoyed by pallets - because when he chases, most of his chainsaw sweeps are going to hit a pallet and not a survivor.
you're defending a Bubba who can create toxic gameplay and facecamp with an aoe attack that has no cooldown and lasts a long time
i see why this community sucks and people are quitting. theres always people like you who defend all the unfun broken crap in this game and it wont get fixed.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2765579#Comment_2765579
The reason why there's so many Bubbas in this game is because camping with him is vogue right now. There will always be a chunk of players that flocks to the strategy that yields the best results for the least amount of skill and effort, and they migrate to and fro as they get tweaked. When I first joined, every third match was a Forever Freddy. When he got nerfed, All-Seeing Wraith got a huge spike. When Wraith got nerfed - that was around the same time as CoH, and suddenly it's basement Bubbas everywhere.
Bubba's simple and easy to play, but he's not the strongest killer in the game. He's not even a contender for S-tier. He has ample counterplay and there are several tricks survivors can do that render him an M1 killer with a quick pallet break. His issue is that he's the best camper in the game, and whether you're his victim or not, he essentially doesn't let anyone play the game when he chooses to camp. When you play against a Bubba that's actually dynamically playing the game, he's a fantastic and very fair opponent. You can avoid the instadown in chase, but you need to know what you're doing. It's like Trickster; new survivors think he's Satan incarnate, better survivors just run to high walls. Bubba's more dangerous than Trickster, but the principle is the same. Hug walls, use windows liberally, use lockers as last resorts to make yourself unsawable and force an M1 hit after the tantrum.
I would suggest playing some Bubba to see what it's like on the other side of the wheel. He's certainly not the hardest killer to pick up, but his chainsaw does require some finesse to avoid bumping (which basically loses you a chase; he's the hardest penalized for failing of any killer shy of Twins) and you'll hopefully learn his counterplay by seeing what survivor movements are easy for you to hit and which moves stymie you.
I hear what you are saying. But Bubba is a unique case in that he has an AoE attack that INSTA DOWNS THE ENTIRE TEAM.
Freddy can't do that. Wraith can't do that.
Bubba's ability lasts for too long, is too easy to control, and has no damn cooldown. How is this even a question. It's broken.
Maybe add a 20 second cooldown before Bubba can use it again.
Or maybe make it so it's not AOE and just downs -1- person at a time each rev.
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@Phasmamain said:
Windows exist
I think a fair nerf to Bubba would be, once you use your chainsaw, add a cooldown of 20 seconds before Bubba can revv it up again.
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@Laluzi said:
I find it really ironic that a month ago you were complaining about how playing killer sucks and feels awful and survivors are abusive and toxic, so you're quitting killer forever, and now you've flipped on your head.
Bubba is an exceptionally fair and balanced killer when he's not using his power to camp. I wholly agree that the ease and effectiveness with which Bubba can camp is stupid. But apart from that, his design is great. He's strong and dangerous in chase, and he punishes getting caught in the open, but he has ample counterplay and using his chainsaw as a true antiloop tool is only the wheelhouse of the most skilled Bubbas. If they were to clean up his ability to make a hooked survivor his prisoner and 100% deny saves unless the Bubba actively screws up, I think he'd be in a perfect state. What you need to do is learn how to use windows and lockers to your advantage, or hug structures so tightly that you negate his speed boost and potentially get Bubba to bump.
In the meantime, please stop screwing over your poor teammates and play the game. Not every Bubba's a camping troll, and against the ones that are, your ragequitting is ensuring that they get the easy 4k they want.
I was a Michael Myers main, and yes Myers sucks unless you spend BP to use his addons.
And Bubba is too strong. His ability is : INSTA DOWN FROM HEALTHY TO DYING, AOE so it downs MULTIPLE people in it's path, AND you can use it to close gaps because it swings so many times and lunges forward each time.... AND you can control the direction and turn corners whille doing it. Oh and NO COOLDOWN!!!!!!!!! He just spams it even if you dodge the first attempt. OP as hell
More times than not, the Bubba I am facing IS a face camper. Almost all of them.
There a reason why so many Bubbas in the game.
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@Shaped said:
This must be satire.
You're joking right?
Don't pretend like you don't know what I'm talking about. Every Bubba I face is a facecamper tthat abuses his special ability to insta down everyone.
And his special ability lasts way too long. This is a fact. He swings about 10 times with that thing and insta closes gaps. And if you try to use corners to mess it up, guess what, he's not like Billy. Bubba can actually turn too. It's too strong.
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Fun fact :
The devs of Dead by Daylight did not create the genre. Asymetric gameplay like this has been going on for decades, going back to the mod community in many different games. The devs here at DBD simply copied the idea and put a horror twist on it.
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@ZelosWilder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2764097#Comment_2764097
More like a fanfic you made up from my post, lol. Threatening to quit is just the obvious move to try and force your demands, you don't need a group of killers "conspiring" for that. 🤪
I did quit. I no longer play killer since November. I specifically bought DBD to play Killer Main.
I am now a 100% Survivor main. I delete any daily ritual that is tied to killers.
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@emetSdidnothingwrong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2764088#Comment_2764088
I'm pretty sure he is being sarcastic.
No, I'm not. CoH is fine. Killers just whining instead of just stomping the boon out and tunneling the boon'er.
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I just played a Bubba who ran Insidious or something, because he stood 5 feet from the hook and stood still until someone came to save, and then he chainsawed both. Rinse and repeat. Facecamped everyone until the final guy was trying to escape at the gate (me) and he got to the gate in time and didn't even need to m1 me twice. Just used his chainsaw to insta break pallets and insta down me from healthy to downed.
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Nothing wrong with CoH. You need to learn to play better as Killer.
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I bought DBD to be a Killer main. I was a Killer main and I quit in November. I do not play Killer at all anymore. In fact, I get annoyed when they keep giving me a screen full of Killer Rituals. I delete them as soon as I can, 1 by 1.
In fact, I took a long break from DBD and when I came back, I am 100% survivor only.
If you can't beat em, join em. I'm having more fun as a Survivor only player. I've gotten good at looping too.
0% interest in ever going back to killer because of the developers. They'd have to remove flashlights from the game, and do something about Survive with Friends in ranked. I want a SOLO ONLY queue.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
That gasp was pretty funny.
I've had ptsd of chainsaws since that Manhunt game on the ps2
I remember that game. It was a Rockstar game right? the one R game i avoided
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damn, no replies, i thought this was funny, cause Bubba PTSD. Might have to rethink what i think is funny
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2678977#Comment_2678977
Neither of those games are better, objectively speaking.
You're upset, so I'm not really interested in convincing you.
Propnight is already one of the top games on twitch streaming in only 3 days
Enjoy your bubble.
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@Fantasy said:
Just by saying you need lightborn to stop flashlight abuse tells me all I need to know. Have fun attacking jumping coke bottles and guitars.
I guess the only players that matter to you are the Iri 1 elite players. The rest of us don't matter?